Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

Stranded in Cancun; CIA Leak Scandal; U.S. Insurgent Strategy; Into Thin Air

Aired July 18, 2005 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BETTY NGUYEN: Five million copies in the first 24 hours.
And, hey, I can understand, one of these main characters is supposed to die in this new book. So very interesting.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, I know. It's kind of dark and mysterious.

NGUYEN: I know. They seem to get darker by each book, don't they?

COSTELLO: They do. They do. But apparently you learn a lot from this, too, about life and growing up and the teenage years. So, see, there's something helpful in there too.

NGUYEN: Exactly.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Betty.

NGUYEN: Sure.

COSTELLO: Hurricane Emily is powering its way through the Yucatan Peninsula. The category two storm shut down the airport in Cancun, Mexico, on Sunday. Nearly 130,000 tourists have been evacuated away from beach resorts. Beth McGhee and her two kids are at an evacuation center in Cancun while her husband, Mike McGhee, is at home waiting anxiously in Kansas City, Missouri. Joining us now on the phone are Mike and Beth McGhee.

Good morning, Beth.

BETH MCGHEE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning, Mike.

MIKE MCGHEE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: I can hardly hear Mike, so let's start with Beth.

Beth, you're in the evacuation center. Tell us what it's like.

BETH MCGHEE: We were safe, but it's been hot and uncomfortable right now. They haven't given us any information yet this morning of what's going on or what's to come.

COSTELLO: You have your kids with you, don't you, Beth? Miles and Megan?

BETH MCGHEE: Yes. Right.

COSTELLO: Tell us how many people are in that evacuation center along with you.

BETH MCGHEE: A few thousand. About 2,000 to 3,000 2,000?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Three.

BETH MCGHEE: Three thousand, I'm told.

COSTELLO: Three thousand people. How big of a building is this?

BETH MCGHEE: It's a relatively large gymnasium. It's in two large sections. But we're pretty much piled on top of each other with mats from the resort and blankets. But we've got lots of leaky roofs and walls and a lot of damp, really wet spots.

COSTELLO: Beth, I heard you say it was hot. Is there air conditioning in there?

BETH MCGHEE: No. We lost power around 1:00. We've had a generator to give us a couple of lights. But there's no air. And all the doors were shut through the storm. They just now opened them up the last 20 minutes or so.

COSTELLO: When you were in your hotel and you knew the hurricane was bearing down on Cancun, what was that like?

BETH MCGHEE: We were a bit nervous, but we were we left our hotel yesterday morning at 8:00, so we didn't haven't seen much other than we would stick our head out the door every now and then at the wind. We were just anxious about everybody at home worrying about us.

COSTELLO: Oh, well, speaking of people at home worrying about you, let's bring in your husband, Mike.

So, Mike, you're watching television and you see Hurricane Emily is going to bear down on Cancun. Frantic calls to your wife Beth?

MIKE MCGHEE: Not frantic. Not until they called me telling me they were being evacuated, then I started to worry a little more.

COSTELLO: Could you stay in contact with them pretty much the whole time as they got to that gymnasium?

MIKE MCGHEE: Yes. With the cell phone. Fortunately, they had a cell phone with them.

COSTELLO: It's amazing that you had contact because I would think the cell phone would blank out. But it didn't?

MIKE MCGHEE: No. No. It's worked fine. The I heard that they had a lot of problems with the land lines because of the flood of calls. But our cell phone, fortunately, worked fine.

COSTELLO: So, Beth, what are they telling you to do now?

BETH MCGHEE: They were supposed to make an announcement any minute now. We don't know anything yet. As far as what our hotel is like or conditions there, electricity, we don't they were supposed to do something at 6:30. They have to kind of make three or four stops so people can hear. They just have a little intercom. So it could be anywhere between 6:30 to 7:00 until we know exactly what, you know . . .

COSTELLO: Did you try to get to the airport to get out of there or was it just too difficult to do that?

BETH MCGHEE: Well, we heard rumors that they closed the airport down at noon, but around 5:00 someone saw a plane in the air. So we do know our flight has been canceled, of course. So we're going to get right on that and try to schedule something as soon as possible.

COSTELLO: So, Mike, you're on national television. Do you want to say anything to your wife and kids?

MIKE MCGHEE: Just hurry home.

COSTELLO: Hurry home. Well, we hope you get home very soon.

Beth McGhee, Mike McGhee, thanks to both of you for joining AMERICAN MORNING. And, Beth, good luck to you and your son, Miles, and your daughter, Megan.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I assume they get a refund, right?

COSTELLO: I don't think so.

O'BRIEN: No? You don't?

COSTELLO: Well, it depends on how long they were there, which I don't know.

O'BRIEN: Yes, trip insurance.

COSTELLO: If the hotel's really, really nice but I think they'd have trouble.

O'BRIEN: Yes, a little trip insurance, I guess, might be a good thing.

A lot more people will be sweating out the storm before it is over, not just that family. Chad Myers at the CNN Center with the latest hurricane forecast for us.

Good morning, Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Stay with us all morning for continued coverage of Hurricane Emily.

Carol.

COSTELLO: "Time" magazine reporter Matt Cooper says he first heard about the identity of a CIA operative from White House adviser Karl Rove. And then Cooper says, he received confirmation of that information from Vice President Cheney's chief of staff. CNN's Bob Franken is at the White House.

Bob, the White House so far has been mum on the subject. But are they going to say something today, you think?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we'll find out. We'll in one of those awkward moments where the president appears, after a meeting with the Indian prime minister. And while that particular head of government sits by, you can expect reporters to ask about this particular matter, which is the White House leak in July of 2003, about two years ago, and the investigation which now has ensnared Karl Rove, the deputy White House chief of staff, now into this, and Scooter Libby, the chief of staff of the vice president, both of whom were named, as Matt Cooper testified before the grand jury.

Most of the focus has been on the closest presidential adviser Karl Rove. And questions about whether he has crossed the line and should be let go, as President Bush said, anybody involved over the last years now. Of course, as you said, they're being mum. Cooper told a variety of people yesterday as he made the round of appearances, that after he talked to Rove, he knew who Valerie Plame was. Plame, the wife of Joe Wilson, who had been a critic of the government.

Here's Cooper.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATTHEW COOPER, "TIME" MAGAZINE: After that conversation, I knew that she worked at the CIA and worked on WMD issues. But as I made clear to the grand jury, I'm certain Rove never used her exact name and certainly never indicated she had a covert status.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FRANKEN: Now, as I said, there's been quite a controversy about the role of Rove and now Scooter Libby. But Republicans defending the administration say, what the testimony has shown thus far is that neither has done anything wrong.

Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, we're going to talk more about it later. And the drama continues in Washington.

Bob Franken, thank you.

O'BRIEN: Three Iraqi police officers were killed in two separate insurgent attacks this morning. Close to 100 people died this weekend in terror bombings. The worst was on Saturday when a stolen tanker truck exploded outside a mosque in the center of Musayyib, which is 45 miles south of Baghdad. U.S. forces have gone after terrorist bomb factories and launched several major anti-insurgent operations in the past few months.

Is a new plan needed, though, to slow the attacks? Brigadier General Donald Alston, a U.S. Military spokesman in Iraq, joins us live now from Baghdad.

General Alston, good to have you with us.

I know this weekend was an important anniversary. It was the anniversary of the coo (ph) which brought the Baathists into power back in 1958. Do you think that is in any way related to this uptick in violence?

BRIG. GEN. DONALD ALSTON, DIRECTOR, STRATEGIC COMM.: Well, I think that, you know, the terrorists get to pick the time and the place. That could very well have contributed to their decision to begin a surge right now at this time. But, really, I think it reflects that we've been having making progress. We have had several successful operations and weeks of pressure on the insurgency, around the Baghdad area in particular. But this is another one of those surges that has been kind of the hallmark of this insurgency, that they would husband their resources.

O'BRIEN: General . . .

ALSTON: And, of course, when you're going after . . .

O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. You say progress. Where's the proof of the progress?

ALSTON: Well, the progress from the beginning of May through roughly the beginning of July, the number of car bomb attacks in Baghdad was in the I'd say in the high teens. And then as a consequence of deliberate operations with the Iraq security forces, as well as coalition forces, that was reduced to about eight a week. So there was actually very good progress in Baghdad with regard to reducing the number of (INAUDIBLE).

O'BRIEN: That's still that's still General, that's still an awful lot of bloodshed. And we have numbers now which tell us that since 2003 there have been 400 suicide bombings in Iraq. Suicide now playing a role in two out of every three insurgent bombings. This is clearly the method of operation for the insurgency and it leaves the military very few options, doesn't it?

ALSTON: Well, it's very difficult. There's no question that it's difficult to defend against folks who are willing to reach for any of the soft targets they can, such as children, men, women, which is what we've seen displayed the last week, without a doubt. The fact that they have such difficulty with coalition forces and, in addition to that, they see the growing strength of the Iraqi security forces, they certainly target them. But really, Zarqawi has essentially declared war on the Iraqi people, and we've seen the consequence of that since he made his proclamation in mid May. And the Iraqi people have been bearing the brunt of this.

So I think that we have kept good pressure on them but we need to continue to work, stemming the tide of these foreign fighters coming into the country to execute these operations.

O'BRIEN: But does the pressure really work? Don't you have to address some underlying issues? I mean, in the words of Osama bin Laden himself back in 1996, he said referring to suicide bombers, they love death, as you, meaning the West, you love life. There's a fundamental problem there when these people are determined to kill themselves. How can you approach that tactic? What do you do to respond to that?

ALSTON: Well, I think you have to look at, what's the effect they're trying to cause? And what they're trying to cause is fear and intimidation. And what do they offer the Iraqi people? They offer no hope of a future. They offer nothing but oppression, violence, and death. The Iraqi people are certainly going to have to play a larger role in coming forward. There are people . . .

O'BRIEN: Why haven't they. General, I've got to admit, you know, seeing all this bloodshed, why hasn't there been more of a backlash among rank and file Iraqis?

ALSTON: I think you're starting to see that. I think you're starting to see that backlash right now. A couple of weeks ago we saw a march for terror in a city close to Mosul. Right now we are seeing Clerics Muslim Clerics throughout the region that are expressing themselves with fatwas (ph) to support the political process. So I think that if you look at what's going on right now, there are, in fact, some movement that way. But we really could benefit from the Iraqi people coming forward on a more daily basis to help us when they see things that are suspicious. They obviously are making a big dent in that right now in terms of the number of tips they're providing, the number of Iraqi security forces that are out in the neighborhoods. They're very approachable, and they could turn that information into good operations.

O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk about Iraqi security forces, though. That's been a real problem because, after all, in many cases, these insurgents are going after the very people who are trying to report for duty as Iraqi security forces. And their record of the Iraqis is spotty at best. You've had a very difficult time getting them to help you out. Clearly, that would be an important step, wouldn't it?

ALSTON: No, I disagree with you completely. The Iraqi security forces have continued to equip them well throughout this entire year. And, you know, these people stand. They fight. And I think, most remarkably, when you see that they are attacked in these recruiting lines, at these recruiting centers, the volume of people that respond to serve their country in the coming days is just amazing given the pressure and given the circumstances. So they continue to produce those numbers. They continue to recruit in large numbers. So I think that I take an entirely different view on the quality of the Iraqi forces and, not only the resilience and their ability to fight, but the volume of people that want to be a part of that team and to protect their country.

O'BRIEN: Thank you for your time, sir.

That's Brigadier General Donald Alston, U.S. military spokesman in Iraq.

We appreciate your insights.

Still to come on the program, Americans are living longer than ever, and it's proving costly for their care givers. We'll look at new numbers in "Minding Your Business."

COSTELLO: Plus, an American rock climber mysteriously disappears in the mountains of Pakistan. Her parents talk about the search for their daughter. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: In the mountains of Northern Pakistan, a 27-year-old American woman is missing. Erica Kutcher of Great Neck, New York, disappeared on July 9th. She was last seen at a base camp in Skardu, Pakistan, near the Chinese border. She vanished before she was set to scale a remote mountain peak with a fellow climber. Her parents, David and Blossom Kutcher, have been in constant contact with U.S. authorities in Pakistan and they join me now.

Mr. and Mrs. Kutcher, welcome this morning. I know you're having a hard time, so we appreciating you being with us.

First of all, what are you hearing? What's the latest information you've gotten from Pakistan through the embassy there?

You want to go ahead, Mr. Kutcher.

DAVID KUTCHER, FATHER OF MISSING CLIMBER: Yes, thank you.

We speak with the embassy every day. From the moment we heard that Erica was missing and we received notification of Erica's disappearance by her climbing partner Pierre Olson (ph). We immediately contacted the U.S. embassy directly in Islamabad and put notice tho them that she was missing and that we insisted that they start a search.

From that point in time, they responded to us very promptly in terms of taking all the vital information that they needed to initiate a search. We also contacted the State Department in Washington, D.C., and then further contacted Senators Schumer and Clinton and Congressman Gary Ackerman.

O'BRIEN: The story that Pierre, her friend tells, is that she took a walk and just didn't come back.

DAVID KUTCHER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Does that sound like something you'd do at a base camp at 1,000 feet. Does that make sense to you? DAVID KUTCHER: Well, it kind of makes sense in the sense that sometimes you need time by yourself for yourself. The reason they were at base camp was after a climb . . .

O'BRIEN: This is a picture with Pierre Olson, by the way.

DAVID KUTCHER: Yes. That's correct.

O'BRIEN: OK. Go ahead.

DAVID KUTCHER: That the rock face itself, the weather conditions, made the rock face unstable. So they returned to base camp to rest and recoup. And it was mid afternoon or early afternoon when she decided that she needed a little time to go out by herself and just walk around the base camp. The base camp is an area, not just of camp of 10 feet by 10 feet, it's in an area of two miles by five miles.

O'BRIEN: So there was area to go walk around.

DAVID KUTCHER: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Mrs. Kutcher, I mean, I imagine when your daughter I'm sure since she's a mountaineer, you've got through some tense times, you know, waiting to make sure she's OK. But when she said, I want to go to Pakistan and climb this particular mountain, did you ask her not to?

BLOSSOM KUTCHER, MOTHER OF MISSING CLIMBER: We looked at her as if to say, so far away. What if something happens? What if you need us? But she's very capable. We have a lot of confidence in her. And we felt that she would be OK. But we always had that worry. But wherever she's been, we have always worried and she's been all right.

O'BRIEN: I can imagine. And you should tell people, she has a tremendous amount of experience as a mountaineer, right?

BLOSSOM KUTCHER: Absolutely, yes. She has traveled all over the world, from being in Australia and traveling from one part to the other, New Zealand, from the Pacific to the Atlantic. She bicycled from Perdu Bay down to Baja, Mexico. She's been with someone or alone and has always survived. And she will.

O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this. Mr. Kutcher, you can take this first. Do you suspect foul play in this case? And do you feel confident that Pierre Olson is telling you the full truth about what happened?

DAVID KUTCHER: We do not suspect foul play. And with regard to Pierre, we need Pierre where he is now, in Pakistan, helping in the search efforts for Erica, which he is an active participant in.

O'BRIEN: Mrs. Kutcher, would you agree?

BLOSSOM KUTCHER: Yes. Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: All right.

BLOSSOM KUTCHER: We need him there. We do speak to him every day. As we speak to the American embassy every single day. And we do get as much information as possible.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you for coming in.

DAVID KUTCHER: You're welcome.

BLOSSOM KUTCHER: Thank you.

DAVID KUTCHER: You know, Dan (ph), we only have one thing on our agenda, and that's to locate our daughter and to bring her home safely.

O'BRIEN: We wish you well.

DAVID KUTCHER: Thank you very much.

BLOSSOM KUTCHER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: David and Blossom Kutcher, thanks a lot.

BLOSSOM KUTCHER: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, the rising cost of care giving. We'll look at new numbers on how Americans are spending their time and money meeting the needs of loved ones. "Minding Your Business" next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Many older Americans depend on friends and family to take care of them. So what are some of the costs of care giving? Ellen McGirt of "Money" magazine is in for Andy Serwer this morning. She is "Minding Your Business."

And the costs have got to be great.

ELLEN MCGIRT, "MONEY" MAGAZINE: They are. We're living longer and we're relying on friends and family to get by. In fact, 44 million Americans are providing unpaid care for a loved one, friend, relative, or neighbor. That's 21 percent of the population. That's a staggering number of people.

COSTELLO: And most of those people probably have a job and work themselves. So how is that affecting their employment?

MCGIRT: They are. In fact, 57 percent of them saying that they need to either come in late or leave early. But the thing that's even more interesting about it is, that we know who these care givers are. They're almost always women, and they're almost always caring for older female relatives. And the time out of their workplace to care for kids and then for older relatives means that there are fewer benefits, their Rolodex takes a hit, their networking, their skills. So when it's time for their retirement and their care, they're falling short.

COSTELLO: No easy answers, are there?

MCGIRT: There really isn't. But state by state, there are all kinds of resources. Head to the blue pages. Caregiving.org, which is the National Alliance for Care Giving, which we published this study with the help of the MetLife Foundation. Caregiving.org has a wonderful Web site with resources. Talk to friends. Think about your savings if you're working. Think about long-term care insurance looking forward. Always, always, always, reach out. There are solutions.

COSTELLO: Ellen McGirt, thank you.

MCGIRT: Thank you for having me.

O'BRIEN: Today's top stories are straight ahead on the program. Hurricane Emily slams into Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula and heads for the Gulf of Mexico. The latest on its path when AMERICAN MORNING continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Watching for the destruction this morning in a vacation paradise. More than 100,000 tourists riding out Hurricane Emily right now after a direct hit on the Yucatan Peninsula. A live report from the path of the storm ahead.

A developing story in the London terror investigation. Police searching for a Pakistani connection. Now say three of the four bombers traveled to the country within the last year.

And in Iraq, the first criminal charges announced against Saddam Hussein. His trial date could be set this week. Saddam's legal adviser discusses defense plans for the dictator on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

O'BRIEN: Good morning to you. I'm Miles O'Brien.

COSTELLO: And I'm Carol Costello, in for Soledad this morning.