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President Bush Holds News Conference with Australian Prime Minister John Howard; Civilian Casualties in Iraq; Battle of Wills Over Gaza Pullout

Aired July 19, 2005 - 12:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: The Australian prime minister and the U.S. president, they've been meeting at the White House. A news conference there. And some familiar questions that we've been hearing fired at the U.S. president over the last couple of days, such as the next appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court, which is expected pretty much at any moment.
Yet again, George W. Bush saying that he is comfortable where we are in the process. He says, "I've thought about a variety of people from different walks of life. Some I knew before. Some I've never met before." And he summed up by saying, "I'll let you know who it is when I'm ready."

OK. The Australian and the U.S. leaders, of course, very good friends. Similar ideologies, similar politics, and a long relationship.

Welcome to our viewers right around the world for an hour of world news on YOUR WORLD TODAY.

Bob Franken is standing by now. Let's go to him now at the White House.

President Bush in a fairly jovial mood, really, and answering some of the same questions he got yesterday and pretty much with the same answers.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, more likely, not answering them. In fact, at one point, he was somewhat blatant about it, saying that he wants to see how reply "without answering your question."

Now, you can't get more categorical than that. Usually, they make a pretense of dealing with it, but the president had nothing to say. There has been a huge amount of speculation in Washington that the president was ready and would, today, announce who the person he's going to designate as his nominee to go on to the U.S. Supreme Court.

We've gotten mixed messages about that. There are names being floated around. The president seems to be playing with the media now. But it is very clear the White House will announce when he is ready to announce. And that's going to be when a decision is made that somebody has been chosen who is going to make it through the confirmation process, and they'll go through the vetting process also to make sure that there are no personal skeletons in the closet. There will also be a decision made when is the most proficuous time to announce it? Would that be today, when there's the side issue of the CIA scandal still rattling around? This, of course, takes a lot of focus away from that. So, in effect, we're being tantalized right now in the media, and, frankly, we're biting -- Michael.

HOLMES: Indeed. Bob, when it come to the U.S. Supreme Court and an appointment like this, for our viewers around the world, this is very important internationally as well. It really does affect government policy and the like, and the enforcement of it. Would George Bush be in a situation where he may have to nominate perhaps his not preferred candidate?

FRANKEN: Well, he would be in a position -- of course he would never say that, but there are competing interests here. On the one hand, a large part of his political base comes from what in the United States is described as the conservative community. And there is some preference there that others feel are way out on the legal and political spectrum.

On the other hand, there are those who say that what is important here is that the president has a dignified confirmation process. So there's a public relations game that goes on.

One of those who is being discussed is -- to address your question about international matters, has a lot of her experience in maritime law, which not the kind of sexy discussion that you normally have when it comes to it. But the Supreme Court deals with much more than the hot-button issues. It deals with a lot of hugely important but not as newsworthy issues having to do with business, having to do with international relations.

There's a heated debate that goes on with some American legal circles and on the U.S. Supreme Court, how much influence international law should have on U.S. law. All that matters, but it's not the type of thing that really figures much into the public discussion.

HOLMES: All right. Bob, as always, thanks.

Bob Franken there reporting to us after that news conference.

We're going to take a short break. And YOUR WORLD TODAY will continue.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: And welcome once again to our viewer right around the world for an hour of world news on YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Michael Holmes.

ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And I'm Zain Verjee.

To Iraq now. Sunni Arabs there are mourning one of their own.

HOLMES: Yes. This comes as Iraq announces the first draft of the constitution will be ready ahead of schedule.

VERJEE: Mijbil Issa and two other people were gunned down in an ambush in Baghdad.

HOLMES: A funeral procession was held for eight people killed in Musayyib on Saturday when a suicide bomber ignited a fuel truck in front of a mosque.

VERJEE: And a U.S. Army brigade found at least seven improvised explosive devices, as well as other weapons, in a farmhouse in Mosul.

HOLMES: Well, the numbers of Iraqi civilian casualties is a number that is hard to come by. Nobody really keeps count. The U.S. government certainly does not keep track.

Well, a group that is tracking the number of civilians killed as best it can says nearly 25,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the war started. The London-based Iraq Body Count Group is made up of academics, human right and antiwar activists. The group says it has done a comprehensive analysis of more than 10,000 media reports published since 2003.

Joining us now from London is IraqBodyCount.net co-founder, John Sloboda. He is also co-author of a new book, "A Dossier of Civilian Casualties in Iraq 2003-2005."

Certainly, the research is there, John. I don't think anyone doubts that. What's the most surprising thing from your latest compilation?

JOHN SLOBODA, AUTHOR, "DOSSIER OF CIVILIAN CASUALTIES IN IRAQ": Well, one of the things which has really, I think, shocked a lot of us is the fact that since the end of the invasion back in May 2003, there has been a steady, month-on-month increase in the number of civilians killed by anti-occupation forces, insurgents and crime. So that there were double the numbers kill in the second year of the occupation than there were in the first.

HOLMES: And who's doing the killing, John?

SLOBODA: Well, currently, the vast majority of killing is being done by anti-occupation insurgents, criminals and unknown agents. We just don't know who a lot of them are.

That is a complete reversal from the situation in the beginning of the conflict, when, of course, in the first six-week phase of the war, the vast majority of deaths were caused by U.S. bombs and aerial raids.

HOLMES: Significant and tragic that many, a disproportionate number of the victims are children.

SLOBODA: That's right. We reckon about -- our data show about 9 percent of the victims are children. But they're not equally distributed. Far more children are casualties of bombing, where, of course, there is a wide scattering of debris, shrapnel, and so on, than in the rather more local hand-held fighting.

HOLMES: Certainly in the United States there is basically a daily one-by-one count of U.S. casualties. And -- but even in the U.S., the injured are not always mentioned. Your group has come up with some large figures of injured as well.

SLOBODA: Yes. For every report which mentions both death and injuries, the ratio is three to one. That is, three times as many people are injured in each incident as are killed.

HOLMES: Now, one other thing. When it comes to the information, you're up against it in terms of finding out. Tell us how you do come up with these figures.

SLOBODA: Well, we actually rely on agencies such as yours. We scan the world's media and have done on a daily basis since back in March 2003. And we've now accumulated 10,000 reports from highly reputable, mainly western sources. And we only put numbers into our databases when two of these sources agree that there has been an incident when civilians have been killed.

HOLMES: Tell me, are you surprised, are you concerned that really neither the U.S., nor U.K. government, does take much of an interest in keeping tabs on this?

SLOBODA: One of the reasons for doing this work is we suspected that it wouldn't be done by others. And one of the reasons that certainly the British government has given is that somehow it's not possible to do.

Well, it may not be possible to have a complete count, but it's certainly possible to learn a great deal. And our study in a sense is a challenge to the authorities to say, well, we did this with very small resources and volunteers. Think what you could do if you devoted your will and energies to it.

HOLMES: Tell me this, were you able to look at the social impact of this many deaths, this many injuries, as well, on Iraqis?

SLOBODA: Unfortunately, it's taken us just all our time to simply document the daily death toll. And, in fact, it's something like 34 deaths on average a day. And just keeping track of those and making sure we don't make mistakes takes all of our time.

HOLMES: All right. I want to thank you, John. John Sloboda of IraqBodyCount.net.

We're going to have a roundup of main stories in a moment.

ZAHN: And then a British Muslim MP turns TV cameraman for a day. We're going to show you the results as he got up close and personal with his constituents.

This is CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HOLMES: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International. I'm Michael Holmes.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. Here are some of the top stories we're following.

A Sunni member of Iraq's constitutional committee has been killed in Baghdad. Mijbil Issa and two other people were gunned down in an ambush. The killing comes, as the office of the Iraqi president said, the first draft of the constitution will be ready before the mid- August deadline.

HOLMES: The British Prime Minister Tony Blair held talks on Tuesday with U.K. Muslim leaders, in the wake of the London bombings. Senior imams, Muslim politicians and representatives of the Muslim Council of Britain, all met at 10 Downing Street, trying to head off a backlash against Muslims. Mr. Blair called on them to root extremists out of the Muslim community.

VERJEE: Israeli police are trying to avoid a showdown with thousands of demonstrators who oppose the withdrawal of Jewish settlers from Gaza and parts of the West Bank. Police call the protest illegal. Protesters say they intend to march towards Gaza despite the presence of some 20,000 Israeli troops and policemen. Organizers say the march will not be violent.

Crowds of marchers have settled into a makeshift camp at a farming village near the border of Gaza. John Vause joins us now from Kfar Maymon. John, is there any indication when they will make their march towards the Gaza border?

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Zain, a short time ago, there was an announcement here, telling these protesters that they should bed down for the evening, unroll their sleeping bags, pitch their tents. So, for now, it seems that this march will not be going anywhere. The protest leaders -- protest leaders, rather -- say that they're now prepared to try and outwait the Israeli police and soldiers who have surrounded Kfar Maymon, this small farming village about 10 or so miles away from the Gaza border.

Now early today, there were some scuffles at the entrance of Kfar Maymon. Some people were hurt during those confrontations. Now, about a dozen or so people were arrested. So the organizers here are now desperate to avoid any wide-scale clashes between the protesters and the Israeli soldiers. But it seems unrealistic that they will be able to wait here for any longer than a day or two. Most the people who came to this protest have only packed enough food, supplies and water for a day or two.

The Israeli soldiers and the police have received their orders from Ariel Sharon, the Israeli prime minister. He has told them that no one is to reach the border with Gaza. He says this demonstration will end here -- Zain. VERJEE: Is it legitimate for the government to block the demonstration?

VAUSE: Well, of course, the protesters here would say it was an illegal act of a dictatorship which is in power in Jerusalem. They say that Ariel Sharon is acting like some kind of tyrant. They now refer to him as part of the royal family. The Israeli government, though, says they were will within their rights to try and stop these protesters from reaching the border with Gaza because that is now a closed military zone, and the only people who are allowed to enter into the Jewish settlements in Gaza are, in fact, the people who live there, the Jewish settlers, 8,000 of them. And so the Israeli government maintains they had every legal right to stop these people from getting to that closed military zone because they would have been breaking the law -- Zain.

VERJEE: Even though Gaza has been sealed off for non-residents, are marchers expected to try any sort of creative tactic to try and break through the cordon?

VAUSE: Well, what we've been hearing from the government, at least -- from the Israeli government -- their concern is that if these protesters do, in fact, reach the border with Gaza, many of them will rush those settlements, dig in and try and cause as many problems as possible to delay the evacuation, which is scheduled to start in less than a month from now.

What we're hearing from the protest organizers, though, here, they're saying that while police will try to stop them, they will not move. They want to make sure this is a peaceful protest. But, of course, they cannot speak for everybody. There are thousands of people here. There have already been scuffles and clashes earlier today. So, of course, there will be one or two or many dozens who will, in fact, still try to get into the main settlement blocks in Gaza. That is what 20,000 Israeli soldiers and police are here to try and stop -- Zain.

VERJEE: CNN's John Vause reporting.

HOLMES: In an ironic twist of fate, one of the victims of the London bombings was an Israeli woman who did not want to live in her home country because she feared for her safety. Robyn Curnow talked to her family.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): They've come from Israel to take their daughter home. Annette Rosenberg, killed in the bomb that exploded on the number 30 bus.

ARIE ROSENBERG, FATHER OF VICTIM: The chances are very small. There are millions of people, hundreds of busses, and exactly in that single bus, which exploded at 9:47, she was inside. And she sat in the end of the bus near the door, exactly -- as I understood, exactly where the bomber perhaps was. CURNOW: She had lived in London on and off for 18 years. And she worked at a children's charity. Like many here, Annette Rosenberg felt safe on these London streets, a sense of safety and security that was shattered on the morning of July the seventh. Annette and her partner, John, shared a love of art and theater. He says bus bombings, a grim fact of Israeli life was something she thought she had left behind.

JOHN FALDING, VICTIM"S PARTNER: She had a fear of being blown up on a bus in Israel. And so it's just so ironic that, tragic that it happened this way.

CURNOW: Her parents will bury her this week in Jerusalem. They had to wait for her body to be officially identified before they could make the journey home.

ROSENBERG: They took us to identify her, and we identified her, and she was our daughter, Annette Rosenberg. She looks peaceful as if she was sleeping, and so we left her there. We said our goodbye, and we will meet later.

CURNOW: Robyn Curnow, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Muslim leaders met with the British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Tuesday to discuss what should be done in the aftermath of the London attacks. Shahid Malik was in that meeting. Malik is a British member of parliament from Dewsbury, where one of the suspected bombers made his home. ITN gave the British M.P. a camera and allowed him to speak to people in his neighborhood about the attacks and what comes next.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHAHID MALIK, BRITISH PARLIAMENT MEMBER: My name's Shahid Malik, I'm the member of the parliament for Dewsbury. One of the suspected suicide bombers lived in my constituency. The other two lived in Beeston, very nearby. The whole constituency has been shocked and horrified by the events as they've unfolded. I think there's something we can do about it, and I'm going to talk through what I think that is. Two minutes from the town center is the main mosque in the town center.

I'm joined by this Lana Abu Rashid Gabanisob (ph), who has been the imam here for 30 years and is a respected figure within the Muslim community nationally. Now, these people that killed themselves thought they were going to heaven. And it's my belief that mosques have got to lead the fight. What do you say to that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If anybody kills themself, is not going in heaven. And if anybody kill other peoples, is not going in heaven. They must be more punishment from God (INAUDIBLE)

MALIK: So one part of the solution is imams taking a very hard line against extremism within mosque. The other part of the solution is in the home and with the family.

Nasim Anakrim (ph), tell me what can you do to ensure that these beautiful kids grow up to be beautiful adults?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, what we normally do between us, if the children say anything, or they say what's happening. You know, why is so and so happening, we're open about it, we talk to the children. And if they say something that's (INAUDIBLE) stop them. We don't just say be quiet; we explain to them, that's wrong; we don't do that. As humans, we're not meant to do that, and that's not what Islam is about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the most important thing in this country at this moment in time is for people to integrate, different colors, different religions, different backgrounds. Only then can we create understanding, eradicate fear and hatred.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's the only way the world's going to move on. They've got to understand each other and respect each other's ways of life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, think we should all pull together in times like this and try and eradicate these rather fanatics, aren't they?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's very, very important to integrate, obviously, together, and then we have to understand each other's way of life.

MALIK: So these are some of the solutions, imams taking responsibility in their mosque, parents taking responsibility in the home, young people integrating. It isn't rocket science. It's achievable. And if we can achieve it, then these younger generations will have harmony and safety for many, many decades to come.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VERJEE: Well, China mobilizes for Typhoon Haitang.

CLANCY: That's coming up. Floods, mudslides, destruction. More on the storm's path across Taiwan to the mainland.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Welcome back. A U.S. citizen detained for years without charges. That's essentially the crux of arguments on Tuesday before a U.S. federal appeals court. Jose Padilla's lawyer say the government lacks the authority to hold the man dubbed as an enemy combatant indefinitely.

Kelli Arena's following the case from Washington. She joins us now -- Kelli.

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Zain, the hearing wrapped up earlier this morning, but a decision is not expected for several months. Whatever that decision is, though, it will have a major impact on how the U.S. war on terror will be fought. Jose Padilla has been in custody since the spring of 2002.

Now, he was arrested, you may remember, at Chicago's O'Hare Airport. But he has never been charged. And he is a U.S. citizen. The government argues that it can hold Padilla indefinitely as an enemy combatant as long as the war on terror last. Prosecutors says that he trained at Al Qaeda camps, that he was planning to blow up apartment building in the United States, and, they argue, the president's power to hold combatants indefinitely is pivotal to preventing future attacks. But his lawyers argue that Padilla's detention is illegal. They contend that he was not captured on a battlefield, but here in the United States. His lawyer spoke with reporters just after the hearing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONNA NEWMAN, PADILLA'S ATTORNEY: If the traditional sense of the battlefield has changed, which is what the suggestion is, than we need Congress to come in. We do not let a president, ad hoc, determine a definition, so that today it's a metropolitan corrections center jail, and tomorrow it's right here on the steps of courthouse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ARENA: Padilla's legal team says that he should be charged, that the evidence should be produced and that Padilla should be judged by a jury of peers -- Zain.

VERJEE: Kelli, there was another U.S. citizen held as an enemy combatant, Yaser Hamdi. He was released last year. Is there any discussion about how that case could set a precedent for this one?

ARENA: Well, Padilla's lawyers were asked that question this morning, and in their estimation, they don't think it applies, because Hamdi was captured on a battlefield. Padilla was captured here, in Chicago's O'Hare Airport. So they say that there isn't really a parallel to be drawn, but it is obviously something that the judges will consider, I think, an they try to make a decision.

VERJEE: Kelli Arena reporting, thanks, Kelli. Thanks, Kelli -- Michael.

ARENA: You're welcome.

HOLMES: All right, Zain, let's check in on some of the other stories making news in the United States. The Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh on Tuesday touted the similarities between his country and the U.S. as he addressed lawmakers. He said the U.S. and India are natural partners, the two being the world's oldest and largest democracies. He also made a pitch again for India to have a permanent seat on the U.N. Security Council.

The pilot of an American Airlines flight to Puerto Rico returned the plane to Florida after a threatening note was found onboard. A passenger reported finding the note behind her tray table about an hour after takeoff from Ft. Lauderdale. A bomb squad search the plane and rescreened the passenger. Eventually the flight was allowed to resume.

The Major League Baseball all-star Kenny Rogers has had another run-in with a cameraman, and it happened where he was paying the price for an earlier tirade. The Texas Rangers pitcher turned himself into police on misdemeanor assault charges for shoving two cameramen who were filming him before a game last month, and he had this exchange on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNY ROGERS, TEXAS RANGERS: Dude, you're getting really close, you know that? Do you hear me? You must be pretty proud of yourself, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Well, Rogers was booked and released on $1,500 bail. Don't be a cameraman around him.

VERJEE: Still ahead, two storm systems on opposite sides of the globe.

HOLMES: That's right, a hurricane threatens the U.S., a typhoon moves in on China. Details on both of those when we come back with our international weather forecast.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VERJEE: Typhoon Haitang has barreled into China's Fujian province on the southeastern coast after devastating northern Taiwan. Tara Duffy's following the storm's path from Beijing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TARA DUFFY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Raging waters in Taiwan, a warning of Typhoon Haitang's force as it heads for China's southeastern coast. When the waters run this high and this fast, little can be done but to get out of the way.

In Fujian and Zhejiang provinces, authorities moved 850,000 people from low-lying areas to higher ground ahead of the Haitang's landfall. Workers reinforced riverbanks. The typhoon was packing winds of 125 kilometers an hour, or about 78 miles an hour, as it slowly headed across the Taiwan Strait. In its wake, a trail of destruction. Up to four people reportedly died in the storm in Taiwan on Monday. Dozens were injured, many hit by falling billboards.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): In less than five minutes, the roof fell and crushed the cars.

DUFFY: A million homes lost power, but it was back to work Tuesday as the cleanup began. Across the Taiwan Strait, 5,000 Chinese police were mobilized to prepare for disaster relief and rescue operations. Along China's southeast coast is a major fishing industry and hubs for both manufacturing and shipping. Tens of thousands of boats were waiting the storm out in the harbor. Airports were closed. Even after Haitang passes, the rains aren't expected to let up for another day or two and that means there is still a great risk of landslides and mud flows. Authorities warning local officials and residents to stay on high alert.

Tara Duffy, CNN, Beijing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HOLMES: Well, northeastern Mexico and the U.S. state of Texas have their eye on Hurricane Emily. Residents, tourists and businesses are preparing for the storm, which tore through Mexico's Mayan Riviera on Monday. Forecasters expect Emily to pick up strength now that it is back over water. It could make landfall as early as Tuesday night. Now, despite the calls to evacuate, some optimists have beached themselves for the duration.

(WEATHER REPORT)

HOLMES: This has been YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International. I'm Michael Holmes.

VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. This isn't a phone call.

HOLMES: I know.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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