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Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace for July 22, 2005, CNNHN

Aired July 22, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, the clock is ticking. DNA testing under way in high-tech crime labs half a world apart at FBI headquarters, Quantico, Virginia, and the Hague, Netherlands. Scientists do their best to extract and identify DNA on four strands of blonde hair.
It is day 54 of the Natalee Holloway missing girl case. An Aruban park ranger discovered the hair on duct tape found on an Aruban beach. And tonight, DNA samples from jailed suspect, the judge`s son, Joran Van Der Sloot, and the Kalpoe brothers also under the microscope.

And any hour, we here at NANCY GRACE will learn whether that hair belongs to 18-year-old Alabama beauty and star student Natalee Holloway.

And breaking news from a California courtroom, Alejandro Avila sentenced to the California death penalty for the sex assault and murder of a 5-year-old little girl, Samantha Runnion. He beat two counts of child molestation just before he kidnapped Samantha from her own front yard.

And a multi-millionaire...

(LAUGHTER)

... he`s on trial in a Florida courtroom for a second time for the murder of his wife before dumping her body in a Florida bay. Now, the first time around, the jury hung. P.S. She was missing a month before he even mentioned she was gone.

Good evening everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. And I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Breaking news out of Santa Ana, California. Tonight, 5-year-old Samantha Runnion`s killer, Alejandro Avila, has a choice. He can choose death by the electric chair or the needle, lethal injection. A jury hands down an execution order on Avila for the 2002 kidnap, rape and murder of Samantha Runnion. Samantha`s mother, Erin Runnion, is with us tonight.

And a highly educated engineer, a multimillionaire on trial, take two. Did Donald Moringiello shoot his wife of 12 years, Hattie "Fern" Bergeler, and then dispose of her body in a Florida bay? She was missing a solid month before he even mentioned Hattie was gone. Prosecution evidence includes cement blocks attached to Hattie`s body, the same type of cement blocks found in Moringiello`s home.

But first tonight, is blond hair discovered on duct tape on an Aruban beach Natalee Holloway`s. Dutch and FBI lab experts working around the clock to make that DNA comparison.

Tonight, on the phone from Meridian, Mississippi, Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway is with us; in New York, defense attorney Alex Sanchez; in Atlanta, defense attorney Renee Rockwell and prosecutor Eleanor Dixon; in L.A., psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall.

But first, to WBMA-TV reporter, Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasiya, bring us up-to-date, friend.

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, REPORTER, WBMA-TV: Nancy, following negotiations earlier this week, the FBI will now be able to more closely monitor the case in Aruba and actually be able to help Aruban authorities in this investigation.

If you remember, previously the FBI was just an observer on the island, watching what the authorities were doing in this investigation, trying to look for Natalee Holloway. Aruban authorities previously denied the FBI any access to statements, evidence, anything pertaining to the investigation.

Now, starting today, or possibly next week, they will have access to all of that material. They will not be able to interrogate the suspects. They will have access, though, to every single piece of evidence. That is, of course, a key development in this case.

Another development, the Texas EquuSearch team is going back next week. As early as Thursday, 14 members are going back with more equipment to look for Natalee Holloway.

GRACE: Very quickly to Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway. Dave, thank you for being with us.

My question to you is, is it second verse, same as the first? Will they really allow the FBI to take a role in the investigation, or is this just more lip service from the Aruban government?

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Well, the role will be limited primarily to allowing the Arubans to utilize FBI resources and any other assistance they may need. As you`re well-aware, they`re not allowed to be involved in the investigation, because, if they were, that information or whatever they investigated would not be allowed in any prosecution.

So it`s basically allowing them to, I guess, utilize their equipment, resources, and put another eye on what investigation material that they do have now.

GRACE: Well, at least they`re sharing. At least they`re allowing the FBI in to a certain extent.

Back to Anastasiya Bolton with WBMA. I want to go back to the prosecutor, Karin Janssen. She`s gone on vacation for two full weeks, but at least she managed to drop off the DNA evidence at the Hague in Netherlands. Did she hand-deliver that?

BOLTON: Yes, indeed, Nancy, she did on the way to her vacation. She did hand-deliver that evidence, which is, of course, being processed right now in the forensic lab.

She`s not working alone on this case. She has another prosecutor helping her out and keeping a watch while she`s on vacation until August 3rd, as we understand it.

Overall, about 25 people are working on this case, including the FBI, including the police department in Nor (ph), which is right next to the beach where Natalee was last seen. And some people from the Dutch government are actually on the island helping out with the investigation, as well.

GRACE: I want to go back to Dave Holloway. With us is Natalee`s father.

Dave, I was talking about this the other night with Jug Twitty. Did you hear that Delta has chosen this moment to announce its new nonstop flights from JFK to Aruba, including signature cocktail drinks?

I don`t know. That just rubbed me the wrong way. It`s going to be a cold day in you-know-where before I head down to Aruba.

HOLLOWAY: Well, in their defense, they were able to help me out in my plane ticket. So...

GRACE: They did?

HOLLOWAY: They were helpful in my situation.

GRACE: OK, Dave. I`m going to go easy on Delta Airlines tonight. It`s hard to find an airline company, but I am willing.

Very quickly to defense attorney Renee Rockwell. Renee, we have both handled a lot of DNA cases, hair cases. Now up until recently, if you had two heirs, even if they belonged to the same person, you could not absolutely say, "This hair came from that head."

No. Now, however, with nuclear DNA, taking out of the roots of hair, mitochondrial DNA, which is traced only through the mother`s DNA line, you can make an absolute, 100-percent match to a particular person.

How devastating will it be? There were other hairs on that duct tape, too, Renee, dark hairs and blonde hairs. If this turns out to be Natalee Holloway`s hair on that duct tape.

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, it`ll be staggering, mostly because, if you remember the story given by the Van Der Sloots is that he last saw Natalee way up on the top of the island. The hair was found down on the bottom of the island, some 25 minutes away.

It shows foul play. If two hairs are on there, one from Van Der Sloot or any of the Kalpoe boys, it shows that they were together when there was foul play. And it certainly shows a horrible inconsistencies with the stories, as where they described they last left her.

GRACE: And to Eleanor Dixon. Eleanor`s handled a ton of DNA cases, as well. The developments in hair evidence, mitochondrial DNA, explain.

ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, I think it`s good, because now, as you said before, we can get DNA if we have the root of the hair. And that`s great in this type of case.

It`s very helpful, especially if they can find out that one is the defendant`s -- or I`m sorry, or the judge`s son, and one is the victim, Natalee Holloway, although I`m not sure if they`ll be able to determine that or not and if they`ve said whether or not it`s the root.

What I find interesting, Nancy -- and I don`t know about you, but I`ve never been asked to take evidence to the crime lab. And I find it interesting that the prosecutor actually took that evidence to the crime lab. And it makes me wonder what kind of importance this evidence has in this case.

GRACE: Well, another reason she`s saying that, Alex Sanchez -- I agree with her. I`ve stood by many a time and watched through a glass wall while a defendant had his blood taken for DNA analysis, Alex.

But, in this country, you have a chain-of-custody problem. If the prosecutor takes the evidence to the crime lab for DNA comparison, then they become a witness. They`ve actually -- they`re the link between the drawing of the blood and the crime lab.

And what`s the prosecutor going to do, put down her files, and go get up on the stand, and swear herself in? What do you think about the prosecutor herself taking the DNA, the hair, the actual hair? We`ve only got four of them, Alex, to the Hague.

ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t like it.

GRACE: I don`t like it either.

SANCHEZ: I think it`s an improper procedure. They should have an independent investigator conducting these type of investigations, handling the evidence, vouchering the evidence, holding on to the evidence, delivering it to the Hague or wherever they`re going to deliver it, and then bringing it back to court, so that that person can get on the witness stand and be cross-examined.

Otherwise, at least in this country, you could have the prosecutor removed from the case and call them as a witness in the case. So why put yourself in that position?

GRACE: But, of course, we`ve learned that everything there is upside- down compared to our system. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: With the new investigative team, I`ve got T.J. down there. And I know he`s going to dig. He`s going to dig into some things that nobody else will give me answers to.

I want them to go back from the beginning. I want the statements from the two uniformed officers that were there with me that night that spent two hours with us, at least their written report that they had that night. And I want them to dig into Paulus Van Der Sloot.

And he`s involved in this, and I want them to dig and dig and find out more information.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Very quickly to psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall.

You know, Bethany, we just showed Judge Van Der Sloot`s backside as he was running down an alley. CNN correspondent Karl Penhaul was chasing him with a microphone, trying to get some answers.

You know, for a while, the judge was behind bars, under suspicion as well. To me, it would be a huge sign of good faith if he, too, submitted himself to a DNA sample.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: I would agree, because, not only have the kids changed their stories, but the parents on the side of the suspects have shown no remorse. They`ve shown no willingness to go along with the investigation.

I have all admiration for Beth Twitty. If all the mothers in the United States were like Beth Twitty, there wouldn`t be as many crimes.

GRACE: I got to agree.

You know, Dave Holloway, if it hadn`t been for you guys going down there, I think you brought a lot of the information to the police before they could get it themselves in Aruba. You were all over that.

Very quickly, Dave Holloway, did you meet up with Van Der Sloot`s father at the jail?

HOLLOWAY: I did.

GRACE: What happened?

HOLLOWAY: Well, we had a -- our initial conversation prior to entering the jail was about the fact that I wanted to meet with his son and ask him to profess his innocence, that he`s claiming that he`s innocent in this case, well, just tell me to my face and let me hear it, because I`ve heard everything on the news media and through limited information.

We got through the police that he says he`s innocent. So I wanted him to tell me that. And of course, his father stepped in and indicated that too much time had passed, and I would not be allowed to do that.

And I ended it with, "Well, why don`t you just discuss it with your son? And if you have a change of heart, let me know." And then I decided to stay until the end of the visitation and approached Paulus again. And he again declined that I meet with his son.

GRACE: What do you mean, "too much time has passed," it`s too late to talk to his son?

HOLLOWAY: He wouldn`t elaborate on it.

GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense, Dave.

(CROSSTALK)

HOLLOWAY: ... wanted to go back in.

GRACE: That doesn`t even make sense. Too much time has passed? Yes, 53, 54 days have passed since Natalee went missing.

HOLLOWAY: That`s right. And then the other excuse he gave was that he could understand my situation, but, as a father of Joran, he`ll do anything to protect his son.

GRACE: Well, at least he spoke to you, Dave. Every time we`ve tried to speak to him, he shows us his backside and takes off running.

I want you to know there`s a standing invitation to the families and attorneys of Joran Van Der Sloot, including that father, the judge, to come on and answer some questions, as well as the Kalpoe brothers. So far, for some reason, they have declined.

And just a few hours ago, the Alabama House of Representatives has passed a resolution asking Alabama residents to boycott travel to Aruba until Aruban officials help us solve this case of Natalee Holloway. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE "JUG" TWITTY, STEPFATHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: For to us have a police chief that`s retired and just drop the case totally, I guess now. First I heard he was going to stay on, now he`s going to go to Holland. And now you`re telling me my prosecutor is going to leave for two weeks? I just don`t know who`s running the show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TWITTY: We need to speed this process up. It seems like every day it`s starting to speed up a little bit.

Somebody`s going to talk down there. And I hope T.J. can get down there, as I say, and make his magic work, because I can`t get anybody to communicate with me, from the police and even the FBI.

I know they`ve worked hard, but I think they feel like that they can`t tell me -- worried about what the Aruban police are going to say, if they do tell me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. We are live in Aruba and the latest on the case of a missing American girl, Natalee Holloway.

As the case drags on, finally Aruban authorities have allowed the FBI to at least take a look at the files.

Back to Anastasiya Bolton, WBMA-TV reporter. Tell me about the boycott that has been now requested by the Alabama House of Representatives.

BOLTON: Nancy, the legislature here is in a special session. And they used today partially to, I guess, issue a statement, or a resolution, rather.

They`re suggesting that Alabamians boycott any travel to Aruba. They`re hoping that travel dollars, when the Aruban authorities feel the pinch of the lack of travel dollars, they will do something or more on this investigation.

The representatives are concerned that 53 days have passed since Natalee has been last seen and nobody has been charged in this investigation.

GRACE: To Renee Rockwell, how soon do you think that the results from the DNA will come back? And what`s the significance of September 4th?

ROCKWELL: The September 4th significance is that, if there`s nothing that shows that there`s strong suspicion that any crime was committed, Van Der Sloot is out of jail.

There`s a two-year window to complete this investigation and prosecute this case. But with the DNA, it`s not going to take a long time, it just seems like there needs to be more than people going on vacation and turning over investigators on this case. Thankfully, the Holloways have hired their own detective.

GRACE: To Dave Holloway, Natalee`s father. You know, Joran Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers both gave DNA saliva swabs this Tuesday for DNA testing. But do we know what authorities are going to compare those swabs to, Dave?

HOLLOWAY: No, I don`t. In fact, Beth and I both gave DNA samples to the FBI and the Dutch authorities within days of our arrival in Aruba. So I know that request was asked of them sometime in early July. And it was just out in the field. So I have no idea about that.

GRACE: You`re seeing newly released video of Natalee Holloway. Dancing was one of her loves in life. She was a star student in Alabama and has a full scholarship waiting for her at college. Her dream, to become a doctor and help other people. This newly released video of Natalee Holloway, you`re seeing it right now.

As we take a look at that, Eleanor Dixon, why parents` DNA? Obviously, the parents weren`t even there at the time Natalee went missing.

DIXON: Because, obviously, they`ll be able to determine something about Natalee Holloway`s DNA from her parents` DNA, obviously because she got hers from them. That just makes sense.

So they`re going to get everybody`s DNA who`s involved as suspects and also parents of Natalee, because they don`t actually have Natalee here, sadly, to get samples from her. And that way they can compare it and compare the suspects, as well.

GRACE: Dave Holloway, did you supply Natalee`s DNA, such as a toothbrush, a hair from a comb, anything?

HOLLOWAY: I think Beth had all that information, which Natalee`s suitcase was packed and ready to go. And it did have hair samples on it and her toothbrush.

GRACE: And I, very quickly, want to go to Alex Sanchez. I`m concerned as to where the defense will go.

Even if we get a positive match, all right, from this hair, the defense will then have another fallback position. You know, they say they left the girl at one spot. The tape and the hair turned up somewhere completely different. Will they have a fallback position, if the hair matches Natalee?

SANCHEZ: Look, if the hair matches Natalee, I mean, that`s not a good development for the defense. I think at this point -- I mean, just looking at it from a defense point of view, the best thing the defense could do is just remain quiet, because if nothing develops beyond the hair matching, I don`t know if the hair matching is enough to establish criminal liability.

GRACE: Please, what would her hair be doing on duct tape?

SANCHEZ: Yes.

GRACE: You know, when you go out for a night at Carlos and Charlie`s, you don`t expect to have your head wrapped in duct tape, Alex.

SANCHEZ: Yes, well, you know something, Nancy? I`m going to tell you something. I hope that that hair is not Natalee`s, because I hope that -- and maybe this is just wishful thinking. I hope she steps off a boat, and walks into her parents` arms, and says, "Look, I`m home."

I really don`t want there to be evidence indicating that she`s a victim of a violent crime.

GRACE: Well, none of us do, Alex. None of us do, Alex. But I want to know which way these defense attorneys are going to take the Kalpoes and Joran Van Der Sloot, if it does come back as a positive match.

We`ve got more from Aruba, but we`ve got to take a quick break. Very quickly to "Trial Tracking." Jacksonville, Florida, police say a couple found in a shallow grave in Georgia were buried alive. The sheriff`s office says the cause of death for Carol and James "Reggie" Sumner, both 61 years old, was asphyxiation. Eighteen-year-old Bruce Nixon tonight being held without bond in jail on charges of murder, kidnapping and robbery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN CLARK, REGGIE SUMNER`S SISTER: But my family`s very upset, devastated. You know, just a mess. To take lives over a little bit of money, if this is the case, and this is the motive, is a terrible thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Just think about that, an 18-year-old, possibly burying a couple alive. Three others face possible charges of murder and bank fraud for using the Sumners` ATM card after the couple went missing.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The search goes on for 18-year-old Natalee Holloway. Tonight, Aruban officials announce they will allow the FBI to at least look at the files. Texas searchers called EquuSearch head back to Aruba to help look for Natalee with a new piece of equipment that actually looks down into the earth.

We`re hearing tonight, Renee, that some of the hair is not 12 inches, that it`s four inches. Significance?

ROCKWELL: Well, it could -- certainly, her hair was long, but it could be her bangs. It could be hair that was broken off. It`s certainly a change of events.

It`s not as exciting and maybe as helpful as it would be, if it would have been her hair.

GRACE: The spot, both at Tortuga, the spot on the island where the hair on the duct tape was found, Renee, you say how far from the Marriott?

ROCKWELL: It`s about a good 20-minute drive by car. So it`s certainly out of the realm of their last stories.

GRACE: Anastasiya Bolton, what`s the reaction back home in Alabama to the duct tape discovery?

BOLTON: People are cautiously optimistic out there. I`ve spoken to the family. And of course, people in the community are constantly asking me what is going on.

But so far, so many things have come out in this case, so much stuff possibly related to Natalee Holloway`s disappearance, have been discovered in the last 50 days, they`re cautiously optimistic.

GRACE: Dave Holloway, very quickly, final thoughts as we go to break?

HOLLOWAY: Well, just like the other guy said, I`m kind of hoping it`s not her hair on the duct tape. And again, whatever happens has already happened. And if this is the clue that God gives to us resolve this, then, you know, maybe we`ll have resolution.

But you know, we just keep hoping and praying that something will develop and break in the case. And this may be one of them.

GRACE: With us tonight, Natalee`s father, Dave Holloway, still hoping for a miracle.

This is newly released video of Natalee Holloway.

We`ll all be right back. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN BELL, LEAD HOMICIDE DETECTIVE IN MORINGIELLO CASE: Mr. Moringiello said, and I quote, "Is this about my wife?"

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The talk happened as investigators searched the Moringiello home with a warrant.

BELL: So as I distracted him, I hit the record button on my digital recorder that I carry on my belt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The audio CD is hard to hear, but Moringiello tells the detective his wife had been missing for around a month. He was concerned. But prosecutors say he never called police.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Today, in Fort Myers, Florida, Donald Moringiello`s defense attorney is with us, Wilbur Smith, a veteran trial lawyer.

But first, I want to go to WBBH reporter Stacey Deffenbaugh. Stacey`s been in the courtroom. Stacey, what happened today?

STACEY DEFFENBAUGH, WZVN REPORTER: Nancy, I first want to tell you I`m from actually WZVN.

GRACE: Thank you.

DEFFENBAUGH: And in court today, the jury heard from the state`s final witness. They actually rested their case just before 10:00 o`clock, and then the defense opened their case and they called four witnesses to the stand today. Three of them were neighbors. Two of them, actually, did not testify in the first trial, Nancy.

GRACE: Two of them did not testify in the first trial?

DEFFENBAUGH: Correct. A man and a woman did not testify. They were next-door neighbors to the Moringiellos.

GRACE: And let me guess, Stacey. They said they had a great marriage, right?

DEFFENBAUGH: They did. Their testimony was very positive about the Moringiellos. They commented that they had never heard them arguing. The defense asked them a lot of questions about whether they knew if they had a gun in their home, if they ever saw Don Moringiello, the defendant, with a gun. The couple that testified also said they had been on a trip with the Moringiellos in Italy prior to Mrs. Moringiello being found dead.

GRACE: Hey, Stacey, do you live in an apartment complex, a house, a condo, what?

DEFFENBAUGH: I live in a condo.

GRACE: Do you know what`s in your neighbors` bathroom cabinet? Ever looked in there?

DEFFENBAUGH: I have not, Nancy.

GRACE: Well, neither have I, so how do I know if they`ve got a gun?

Very quickly to Wilbur Smith. Wilbur Smith is defending Moringiello at trial. Got a mistrial last time, hung jury. They did something right. But I still am not clear on why your guy ripped up the carpet right after the wife goes missing and then puts fans on it.

WILBUR SMITH, MORINGIELLO`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first off, the lead detective who walked in the house looked in the room, saw fans blowing on a carpet with boards under it, and saw what he believed was a blood- soaked carpet, wet to the touch. A few minutes later, the lead forensic detective came in. He said there was not any visible blood. The carpet was not wet to the touch. And Mr. Moringiello explained that the leak had occurred in the toilet the day -- two days before, and he was cleaning it up and drying the carpet.

The question is, why would he have waited 28 days to clean it up, if, in fact, that was the room that she was killed in? Now, the lead detective still said...

GRACE: Maybe he just noticed the blood.

SMITH: ... that she was killed in the room.

GRACE: Maybe he just noticed the blood.

SMITH: Just noticed the blood?

GRACE: I don`t know.

SMITH: That makes sense, after you shoot your wife four times in the chest in a bedroom that has a thick pink carpet and white draperies all around, you just notice the blood 28 days later.

GRACE: OK. You got me over the barrel on that one, Wilbur. You got me. So that was one heck of a leak. So how much did the plumber charge him?

SMITH: Well, the plumber didn`t charge him. He did what any person would do that knows even a modicum about toilets. He reached down and turned the valve off, and that stopped the leak. And I`d suggest if that happens at your home, you do the same thing.

GRACE: OK. All right. Somebody`s prepared. Hey, if your guy takes the stand again, he better bone up on that.

SMITH: Hey, we tried the case twice.

GRACE: I think I would hand him a wrench on cross-examination, get him to show me how he fixed that toilet!

Very quickly, to Eleanor Dixon. Give me the strongest evidence for the state.

DIXON: Well, I think if they had such a great marriage, why did he wait a month to report...

GRACE: Ouch!

DIXON: ... that his wife`s missing? That`s just ludicrous. Even after a bad fight, would you wait a whole month? How bad could it be?

GRACE: Well, you know what? You know who agrees with you? A neighbor. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had to describe Mr. Moringiello`s personality to the jury, how would you describe him?

ROCCO DITELLO, MILLIONAIRE`S NEIGHBOR: Don was always very friendly, easy to get along with. I always felt comfortable being able to do different things with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK. There you see a neighbor that later just -- just very upset on the stand regarding not reporting his wife`s disappearance. I think that`s a major issue for the state. What about it, Wilbur?

SMITH: Well, that neighbor was not upset. That neighbor said he`d never seen Don Moringiello even raise his voice, had never seen him commit any act of violence, that he was a warm, friendly man, and he was one of his best friends.

It was another neighbor, who lived further away, a lady who said that she had heard them arguing. Two other neighbors who lived 20 feet away said they had never heard them arguing, and they went on a trip to Italy for three weeks a month before this happened, and they said for three weeks, there was no tension. They had a great time.

Have you ever traveled with anyone for three weeks, another couple, and not had any tension? Must have been a great marriage, and we believe it was. There`s no testimony that the marriage wasn`t a good marriage.

Now, why didn`t he report her missing? He didn`t think she was missing. She`s a very independent woman. She worked for a jet engine company for many years. She was accustomed to living alone, traveling alone. They were married, and she worked on the East Coast...

GRACE: OK, OK, OK, OK...

SMITH: ... and he worked on the West Coast.

GRACE: ... OK, OK, OK. I got it. I got it. I got it.

SMITH: It wasn`t unusual for her to be gone.

GRACE: OK. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... say anything about why he killed his wife?

DANIEL BRUNER, MILLIONAIRE`S JAILMATE: Said they just had problems arguing and she didn`t like his kids.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Renee Rockwell. Will he take the stand?

ROCKWELL: Nancy, he took the stand in the first trial. And rule number one is, you never let your client take the stand. But rule number two, a jury wants to see a defendant get on the stand and say, I didn`t do it. I think he has to get on the stand. There`s too many things he needs to explain.

GRACE: You know what`s disturbing, Alex Sanchez, is that the cement blocks attached to the victim`s body matched cement blocks belonging to the defendant. How would you explain your way out of that one?

SANCHEZ: I don`t know if they matched or they were consistent with the type of cement blocks that he had. But you know, that witness that you just showed, he`s -- that said that Moringiello confessed, isn`t he a criminal? Isn`t he a guy that was in jail, that had a motive to lie and come to court? He was trying to cut a deal with the prosecution. So that witness that testified he heard Moringiello confess, he`s not a very valuable witness.

GRACE: OK, you very artfully dodged that whole cement block thing. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BELL: ... that as he was driving and as she was following him, he looked back and she was no longer there. He said that when he made it to Connecticut, he was concerned that she didn`t arrive. He then said he continued -- he stayed there for his vacation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I want to go back to those cinder blocks. To Wilbur. Wilbur Smith is the defense attorney in the case. How will you explain that away?

SMITH: Well, first off, cinder blocks -- we call them concrete blocks down here in Florida. They make them by the thousands and thousands. They don`t make them like designer concrete blocks. Maybe Martha Stewart has them, but people down here have about the same type of concrete blocks. They had a paint expert who does nothing but examine paint for the Florida Department of Law Enforcement, and the most she could say is the paint on both of them was common acrylic latex house paint that is manufactured by the thousands of gallons. Pretty compelling, wouldn`t you say?

GRACE: OK. To Stacey Deffenbaugh. What other evidence was found in the home?

DEFFENBAUGH: Well, as Mr. Smith mentioned, there were two carpets tested for the possible presence of blood. The jury got to see those carpets in court, Nancy. One tested positive for the possible presence of blood. The other did not. Also, the witnesses testified that several stains were tested, four or five, I believe, some for DNA, some for the possible presence of blood. Again, the washing machine was one area, I know they found a mix of DNA there, a glass table in the sunroom. They`re asking a lot about the sunroom and the extra bedroom in this case. That`s where the possible blood spots are.

GRACE: Stacey, how did police determine that the woman found floating in the water was, in fact, Fern Bergeler (ph)?

DEFFENBAUGH: When the witness found her, July 18, I believe, the body was so decomposed, Nancy, that they could not identify her and they had to bring her dentist in to identify that, in fact, it was Fern Bergeler Moringiello. That`s who the victim was.

GRACE: We are going to a quick break.

As you know, we at NANCY GRACE want very much to help in our own way solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Take a look at Justin Harris, just 14 years old from Casper, Wyoming, last seen February 15, 2004. If you have any information on this little boy, please call the Casper Police, 307-235-8278, or go on line to Beyondmissing.com. Please help us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIN RUNNION, 5-YEAR-OLD DAUGHTER SAMANTHA MURDERED: You took my baby, and you hurt her and you crushed her! You terrified her until her heart stopped. And she fought, and I know she fought you. I know she looked at you with those amazing brown eyes, and you still wanted to kill her. I have researched and really thought about pedophiles and your psychology, and blah, blah, blah. You`re a human being. You know pain and you know fear. How dare you pretend she wasn`t real! I want an apology. Some day, what I really want is I want you to feel the impact of what you did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Erin Runnion speaks out today. Alejandro Avila sentenced to death for the murder of 5-year-old Samantha Runnion, not only the murder but the sexual molestation and kidnap. Tonight in Orange, California, 5- year-old Samantha Runnion`s mom, Erin, is with us. In Fort Myers, Florida, Marc Klaas. He is the president of Beyondmissing.

But first, on the phone, Lisa O`Neill Hill. She`s a staff writer for the "Press-Enterprise." Welcome, Lisa. Bring us up to date. What happened in court?

LISA O`NEILL HILL, "PRESS-ENTERPRISE" REPORTER: Thank you, Nancy. Well, this morning, as expected, the judge affirmed the jury`s recommendation that Alejandro Avila deserved to die for kidnapping, sexually assaulting and killing Samantha three years ago. In committing those crimes, the judge said, Avila forfeited his right to live. And he used very strong language and said that Avila was fueled by child pornography when he went, quote, "out hunting for a victim."

GRACE: To Erin Runnion, Samantha`s mother. Erin, you have lived through so much hell. What is also disturbing about this case is that shortly before Samantha went missing, this guy, Alejandro Avila, beat two charges of child molestation. His attorney, John Pozza, told the jury that police planted child porn on his computer and that the state had coached the children to lie. That jury let him off. And he found your girl.

RUNNION: That`s right.

(CROSSTALK)

RUNNION: Go ahead. I`m sorry.

GRACE: When you think of that -- I know today, you finally got justice. But if you could speak out to that jury and John Pozza, what would you say?

RUNNION: Well, you know, I think it`s a symptom of the lack of awareness around the country for everyone. You know, those jurors are representatives of the rest of us. And there is -- people do not realize how pervasive these crimes against children really are. People do not realize. It is so much easier to assume that there`s a woman who wants to take revenge on her ex-boyfriend and get her kids to lie than it is to believe that somebody would commit a heinous crime against a child. And it is that false kind of characterization that we have to get past.

We have got to educate people that pedophiles are fathers and sons and boyfriends and brothers, and they don`t just have one victim, they keep going. And they`re going to keep going until we report it and we convict them. And that`s why, you know, my heart really goes out to those girls who had the courage not once, but twice, because they testified in this case, too.

GRACE: Erin, you are so correct. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN POZZA, AVILA`S FORMER DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We were able to talk to the jurors after they had come back with the acquittal. They basically said there were a number of issues, but certainly, the credibility of the children was put into question.

GRACE: You accused them of being coached, didn`t you? I can see it right here in black and white!

POZZA: Well, absolutely. That was, absolutely, one of our defenses. And I have an ethical obligation to zealously represent my clients, and that`s what I do. And I don`t have a problem looking at myself in the mirror.

I cannot say whether or not I believed his guilt or innocence. And really, I am not the finder of fact, so I try to remove myself from that and basically present the best defense I can for my client.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Marc Klaas, victims` right advocate and a crime victim himself. What do you think about the upcoming legislation for stricter laws?

MARC KLAAS, PRES., BEYONDMISSING.COM: Well, Nancy, there are companion bills in the House and Senate that are going to address many of the issues that we`ve been talking about over the past months. I think it`s a very good package because when it`s going to do is address everything from sentencing to forced compliance of the sex offender registration laws, to giving law enforcement better tools to manage, to really throwing out a whole lot of things there -- a whole lot of things there, including -- including doubling the -- doubling the registration period, putting together a national sex offender registry and funding the whole thing.

In effect, it`s going to correct some of the problems that were created in -- that were created by the initial Megan`s law in 1996.

GRACE: And Marc, you`re headed to Washington next week, right?

KLAAS: Well, I`m not going to be able to make that trip to Washington, but I`m certainly supportive of everything that`s going to be happening there because this is very, very important legislation. And in effect, what it`s going to do is take every child from Samantha through to little Shasta Groene and give them a legacy...

GRACE: Right.

KLAAS: ... because this is really a reaction to all of these horrible and hideous crimes.

GRACE: Bethany Marshall, even with a death penalty coming down today against Avila, will that bring peace to the victim`s family?

MARSHALL: It will bring some solace, of course, because they`ll know that justice was served. But it`ll never take away the fact that their -- her little girl`s not there anymore, their children aren`t there anymore. You can`t take back a child, once it`s been taken away.

GRACE: And how pervasive is this, Eleanor? We actually rarely hear about it.

DIXON: Well, it`s scary to think how many people are addicted to child pornography, who view it over the Internet, oh, so easily. And you can`t go into people`s homes and necessarily see this. But then they go out and perhaps act on some of those impulses, such as in Samantha Runnion`s case. And that`s the sad tragedy of it all.

GRACE: With us tonight, Erin Runnion, Samantha`s mother. In his last jury trial, Alejandro Avila was accused of having child porn before acting on that porn.

Quick break, everyone. To tonight`s "All Points Bulletin." Police on the lookout for this man, John Rollins Tuggle, a registered sex offender. His 12-year-old daughter stabbed and abandoned near an Idaho campground. She`s in serious condition tonight. Tuggle, released from an Idaho prison last year, after nine years on child molestation, the only suspect in the case, 37 years old, six feet, 200 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes, tattooed. If you have any information on Tuggle, call Shoshone County tip line, 208- 556-1983.

Local news coming up for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of the Donald Moringiello wife murder trial Monday, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."

Please stay with us as we remember an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories, and more important, the people who touched all of our lives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

A 26-year-old newlywed on his honeymoon goes on a cruise. His bride wakes up in the morning, he`s not there, so she went to work out.

VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: She just assumed that he got drunk and fell in the water. That`s the most probable thing. That`s, like, maybe 60 percent of something, 70 percent.

GRACE: I don`t know if I would settle for 70 percent likelihood the one you love died by accident. Oh, no.

BTK -- bind, torture, kill. And sell. That`s right. Dennis Rader, known as the BTK killer, is now selling his stuff on line, making a profit!

LARRY HATTEBERG, KAKE-TV: These are letters that Dennis Rader has written to other people, in one case, another inmate inside the Sedgwick County jail. And that inmate took that letter, gave it to his wife, and his wife then posted that particular letter on an auction site.

GRACE: Oh, good Lord!

She looks like a beauty queen. She walks like a supermodel. And she talks like a school teacher. Because she is one! And Debra LaFave is facing trial for felony child molestation. Victim, allegedly a middle school student, a 14-year-old boy. Defense, insanity!

And breaking developments in the Florida murder case of a 9-year-old little girl, Jessie Lunsford. Couey`s family says they`d known for years he has molested children. They knew this girl across the street, this little 9-year-old girl, was missing, and they had a sex offender that they were covering up for for years and years! Half the family got molested by this guy, and nobody lifted a baby finger to call police!

What do you make of the prosecutor in this case, Karin Janssen, going on vacation?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nancy, I hope you`re kidding me when you tell me that.

GRACE: I am not. I`m not! She`s gone this week. She`s not working on Natalee`s case. She`s not writing up warrants or search warrants, arrest warrants, warrants for more DNA. No, she`s probably getting a tan somewhere on vacation!

Karin Janssen, Nancy Grace, former prosecutor with "Headline News." Are you getting a tan in Holland? Because you`re needed back at work right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But my biggest thank you is to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your home. Coming up, headlines from all around the world. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. A special good night to my parents, married 55 years today. See you here Monday night, I hope, 8:00 o`clock sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END