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CNN Saturday Night

London Police Kill Innocent Man; Sweltering Heat Kills Dozens

Aired July 23, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, HOST: This is CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To say sorry is not enough.

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LIN: London police killed an innocent man. Tonight, his family talks about a horrible case of mistaken identity. Also, mercury rising. The sweltering heat killed dozens nationwide. And he raped and killed a five-year old Samantha Runnion. Tonight, you'll hear her mother's entire courtroom attack on the killer when he got his death sentence. These stories and a lot more next on CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

Good evening, I'm Carol Lin from the CNN Center in Atlanta. Straight ahead this hour, they are waging war against the West and everything it stands for. Bombing trains, targeting tourists, why do the terrorists hate us? And what is going to stop them?

Also, Natalee Holloway's family is taking the law into their own hands. I'm going to talk with their investigator and get more on the new FBI role in Aruba. And some of the biggest names in Hollywood are fighting to keep their private parts from going public. A topless Cameron Diaz and Colin Farrell sex tape and our own legal expert on the battles in court.

But up first tonight, London. There is a defiant face on that city these days, as Londoners stoically refuse to bow to terrorists. But the latest developments prove that sharp tension and deep anxiety linger after Thursday's attempted bombings and Friday's police chase that left a man dead.

Well, it came today that word is the man police shot and killed was not connected with the bombings at all. And it is simply too much for his family, as CNN's senior international correspondent Nic Robertson reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The cousin of Jean Charles Menezes is in shock -- shock the British police could shoot dead his 27-year old relative from Brazil, a mistake for a suspect bomber.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they killed my cousin who doesn't look like a Muslim person, can kill anyone.

ROBERTSON: Outside the hotel, where police have told him to stay, he vents his frustration.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People who (INAUDIBLE) must go home and just leave you. Better to leave than on the road.

ROBERTSON: He says De Menezes, who was an electrician, was shot in the head at Stockwell subway station in South London.

(on camera): Police say at the time of his shooting, they called out a warning and he failed to obey. Witnesses say he jumped over the ticket barrier. After that, police say they shot him. And he was pronounced dead at the station.

(voice-over): Unlikely, says Perrera.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He never did that. He's no -- he buy a travel card for a week. Why had to jump? He's not stupid. He wasn't a stupid person.

ROBERTSON: Witnesses say three policemen were chasing De Menezes, when he tripped and was shot at close range.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He looked horrified, though, absolutely -- I caught sight of his face for a split second. He looked -- absolutely horrified. And then he was on the floor and dead.

ROBERTSON: In a statement released on its Web site, the Metropolitan police describe the shooting as a tragedy it deeply regrets, adding, "the man emerged from a block of flats...that were under police surveillance as part of the investigation into the incidents on Thursday, the 21st of July," the bungled bombings.

Suspicion De Menezes was a suicide bomber, likely why he was shot by plainclothes policemen in accordance with procedures changed after 9/11.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooting in the head is one part of it, if there is no other way of stopping them. The guidelines are not a license to kill.

ROBERTSON: Elsewhere in London, the police investigation continued. At least one man was picked up by police during a raid in Tulse (ph) Hill. Two other men, already arrested since the failed bombings not far away in Stockwell. And in the north London neighborhood of Wormwood Scrubs, police found a suspect backpack, similar to those used by the bombers.

Not clear if any of the men arrested are among the four suspect bombers, who are currently the most wanted men in Britain.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LIN: The London bombings naturally have Londoners wondering just how unsafe their city has become, and if they should expect more violence.

Well, our terrorism analyst Peter Bergen told me earlier it is not over.

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PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: It's very possible there will be a third attack in London, in which case, you know, Prime Minister Tony Blair keeps saying business as usual, business as usual. I don't think that mantra is going to work. I think the British are stiff upper lip is not going to really hold if a third attack happens. And these people who did the second attack are very well out there. And there may be other cells. Clearly the British police missed a whole group of people, at least eight people if you include one attack and the second attack. And there may be other cells.

So I think it's really quite disturbing. And I -- you know, I grew up in London. I remember the bombs going off, the IRA bombs, when I was a kid. This is a whole different ballgame. They're looking for indiscriminate casualties, multiple attacks.

I think the British are going to be quite worried. I mean, the second attack, it seems the reactions we've heard on CNN from people in London, people are more freaked out than they were during the first thing. Because in the first thing, it just was a one off. Now it looks like a campaign.

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LIN: That was terrorism analyst Peter Bergen there.

Now London police released the photos of four men yesterday captured on security cameras near the bombing site. And they are asking Londoners to alert authorities if they see these men.

We want to move on now to Egypt's Sinai Peninsula, where the echoes of suicide car bombings reverberate through the resort city of Sham El-Sheik. The death toll rose today to 83, with more than 200 people hurt. Investigators have some theories, but no rock solid clues.

John Vause reports.

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JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The moment of attack, this was the second of three blasts. These images captured on home video by a Polish tourist not far from the city's old market. Here, most of those killed were Egyptian workers, blown apart, investigators say, by a suicide car bomber. Just moments before, another suicide car bomber, according to authorities. The target was a Ghazala Garden Hotel. The explosion so powerful it ripped off a large section of roof and concrete floors were brought crashing down. A third blast not far away by a beach side walk, but there investigators believe the explosives were left in a sack or bag possibly detonated by a timer or cell phone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At first, I didn't even think. I didn't even think it was a bomb. I just thought it was some sort of explosion or some sort of crash. But it was -- the sky was lit up. It was terrible, terrible.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We've come to London where -- the bombs are London and we've come here for holiday and the bombs are here.

VAUSE: All the blasts were deadly and occurred within minutes of each other. Among the casualties, tourists from Europe as well as Arab states, many suffering burns or wounded by shrapnel. Egyptian president Hosni Mubarak who owns a holiday home in this resort town, met with some of those hurt.

HOSNI MUBARAK, EGYPTIAN PRESIDENT: (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, there were cuts throughout my body and I sprained my ankle.

VAUSE: The attacks, he said, were cowardly, intended to undermine Egypt's security.

MUBARAK (through translator): Our battle will continue with all the strength and the determination that we have. We will not submit or compromise. We will protect Egypt's security and the future of its sons and daughters.

VAUSE (on camera): Like most hotels here in Sharm el-Sheik, the Ghazala had taken special security precautions. There was a checkpoint right here at the entrance of the hotel where cars would be stopped and searched. But according to witnesses and the police, the suicide car bombers simply sped past the security guard, and from there, just 100 feet or so, to the hotel lobby.

(voice-over): Many tourists were left shocked by the bomb attacks and cut short vacations and headed home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're leaving this (UNINTELLIGIBLE), less than three days holiday we must go.

VAUSE (on camera): Can we just -- can you just stop and just...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm in a state of shock.

VAUSE (voice-over): Twelve hours after the bombings, authorities decided no one could have survived under the rubble of the Ghazala Hotel. Heavy earth-moving equipment was brought in to clear the debris and begin a search for bodies and also for answers, answers about who did this, an attack on this resort town which calls itself the City of Peace.

John Vause, CNN, Sharm el-Sheik, Egypt. (END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, the official U.S. reaction mirrors much of the world. Sadness and anger and a demand for justice. The chief U.S. diplomat issued a statement from the West Bank. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice condemned the attacks as horrific and said the U.S.-Egyptian alliance remains strong.

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CONDOLEEZZA RICE, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The people of Egypt, our deepest condolences to those who have lost their lives. Our deepest sympathies and hopes for the recovery of those who were injured. And our support and solidarity to the Egyptian people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Now it's high security beneath the streets of New York City. National Guard troops and additional Port Authority police are keeping a visible armed presence in the stations and cars of the Big Apple subway. Passengers' bags are randomly checked on buses, ferries, and subways.

Now that's not sitting well with all New Yorkers. But most say, they don't mind the extra safety measures.

Now it looks pretty stuffy in those subway tunnels, doesn't it. But it has been a 90 degree and humid day in New York, nothing compared to out West, though. Triple digits in the Dakotas, over 100 in Northern California, and broiling in Texas.

Sure it's July, folks, and we're talking about record high temperatures already. Meteorologist Jacqui Jeras in the CNN Weather Center.

Jacqui, is this going to cool off a bit?

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Not anytime soon. In fact, we've got a couple of days of the heat. We had a number of records already today. 107 in Alliance, NE. Omaha had 105. 102 a record for you in Denver. Vero Beach, Florida, 97. And Los Angeles getting in on the action also with a record high this afternoon of 86 degrees.

Temperatures at this hour are still really brutal. Check them out. 86 in Minneapolis, 89 in St. Louis, also 89 in Dallas, 84 in Atlanta. Temperatures a little bit cooler across parts of the Northeast, but if you think you're escaping the worst of it, you are right now. But hey, those record highs could be on the way Monday and Tuesday across the Northeast and Mid Atlantic state.

It still feels like 101 in Minneapolis, 100 in Omaha. Feels like 96 in Des Moines. That's from the combined heat and the humidity. Chicago, brutal in the 80s today. Tomorrow should be the hottest day of the year with 100 degrees. But the heat index will reach 115. An excessive heat warning in effect for Chicago tomorrow. Relief is on the way by the middle of the week. What about the Southcentral United States? Feels like 93 in Dallas, 97 in Little Rock. Also into Memphis, we checked this out. Feels like 93 in Miami, 92 in Orlando. Look at 88 degrees. That's the temperature your body feels right now in Atlanta.

Atlanta in the low 90s today. Should be well into the mid to upper 90s for tomorrow. That's going to last until the beginning of the work week, before you cool down ever so slightly. But hey, we can't complain too much in Atlanta, can we, as those temperatures are finally starting to go down just a little bit.

There you can see the heat advisories for tomorrow, extending from Minnesota almost all the way down to the Gulf Coast. Carol, it's summer. It's summer.

LIN: You bet. And cooling down just in time. Thanks very much, Jacqui.

In the meantime, bombing attacks in London and last night in Egypt. Why do the terrorists hate us? And can we stop them? That is the talk tonight after the break.

Also, she's been missing for nearly two months and only now the FBI is playing a meaningful role in the case of Natalee Holloway. But is it too late to gain solid answers?

And this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then she fought. And I know she fought you. I know she looked at you with those amazing brown eyes and you still wanted to kill her.

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LIN: Her raw emotion was powerful. The mother of Samantha Runnion delivers an unforgettable message to her daughter's killer. You will hear it in its entirety ahead on CNN SATURDAY NIGHT.

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LIN: At this hour, police in London continue to search for the team of would-be killers, whose bombs failed on Thursday. And Egypt is seeking clues to the bombings that killed scores of people at a Red Sea resort.

So now we ask the question we asked on 9/11 and many times since, why is this happening? Joining us now with some insights, Ibrahim Hooper, communications director of the Council on American Islamic Relations and Michael Swetnam, CEO and president of the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies. They are both in Washington tonight.

Good evening, gentlemen to both of you.

IBRAHIM HOOPER, AMER.-ISLAMIC RELATIONS COUN.: Good evening. LIN: Ibrahim, let me start with you. Is it fair or overly simplistic to say that the reason why the terrorists hate us is because the United States supports Israel, the United States in the last two years has attacked two Muslim countries. And that the perception is that the U.S. would stop at nothing short of some form of world domination?

HOOPER: Well, you know, ever since 9/11 and all of these terrorist attacks began, I've asked myself the same question. Why -- what could possibly motivate somebody to do such things?

I mean, obviously, they're not bringing any kind of credit to Islam. They're damaging the image of Islam. They're damaging the situation of Muslims around the world. And they're also harming legitimate causes, like justice for the Palestinian people or these various causes. They're being damaged.

So the only answer I could come up with is that they're trying to do a Timothy McVeigh. They're trying to spark some kind of apocalyptic conflict. And at the end of all of it, somehow their particular ideology will come out on top.

LIN: Yes. Well, who wins in a situation like that?

Michael, what do you think?

MICHAEL SWETNAM, POTOMAC INST. FOR POLICY STUDIES: I think that Ibrahim is quite correct. It is driven by the very fringe radicals characterized by Osama bin Laden, who is spouting this venom that Western civilization, secular Western civilization, is a threat to Islam, which is absolutely not the truth.

But he's able to convince a segment of the young population and incite them to do horrible things, which is not at all in keeping with their religion.

And until we're able to counter that terrible inciteful ideology that he's preaching around the world. We won't be able to stop this.

LIN: So what kind of policy, what kind of United States policy works against that? I mean, is it crush them until they beg for mercy? Or is it to try to build democracies as is allegedly being the case in a place like Iraq, Michael?

SWETNAM: Well, I think that building democracy and living up to what we preach, not just having a good democracy here, but helping to spread democracy around the world is a very, very good thing.

But we have to do more than that. We have to also spread the good news, the ideology for too long, for at least a decade, as the press and the media has proliferated around the world. We've allowed those who have evil messages to dominate that media, instead of being very aggressive ourselves about putting out the good ideology.

LIN: All right, well...

SWETNAM: We need to tell the story better.

LIN: All right. Speaking of ideology in the media, Ibrahim, what responsibility does the Arab media play in this? What is their role in spreading the hatred against Iraq?

HOOPER: Well, I think not only the Arab and Muslim media, but American Muslims and Muslims around the world have a responsibility to challenge extremism and hatred whenever they...

LIN: You see that being done?

HOOPER: I see it being done, and increasingly so in recent days. And we also need to challenge home grown extremists. When Congressman Tancredo in Colorado suggests that Islamic holy sites be bombed in response to an attack on America, that harms our image in the world. It makes it tougher for us to do what we need to do to fight the war on terrorists.

LIN: Michael?

SWETNAM: That's exactly right. Couldn't have said it better myself. We have to not just say the words of freedom and equal opportunity. We have to live them. That means here, as well as around the world.

And it's only when we can counter the evil ideology with a proper ideology that will win this war. We can't kill all the terrorists. You can kill a terrorist, but you can't kill the ideal that inspired him.

We have to counter that ideal with our good ideals.

LIN: All right. Thanks very much, gentlemen. We want to ask our viewers the question then. It's our last call question tonight. They carried out acts of violence on the West. Why do you think the terrorists hates us? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620.

In the meantime, the countdown is on again for NASA's return to space, but a Tuesday launch is no guarantee. That's ahead.

And the rescue at sea when a family outing turns dangerous.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Across the nation this hour, tick-tock, the countdown is on again at the Kennedy Space Center. NASA plans to launch the space shuttle Discovery Tuesday morning at 10:39. Confidence, not exactly sky high. There's only a 60 percent chance the weather will cooperate.

Port O'Connor, Texas, a family of five starts the day with a boat ride and ends the day with a helicopter ride, courtesy of the U.S. Coast Guard. Their boat ran aground offshore with three children under 10 years old on board. Everyone is safe, sound, and grateful.

And General William Westmoreland was laid to rest today on the grounds of his alma mater, the United States Military Academy at Westpoint. Westmoreland, who commanded U.S. forces during the height of the Vietnam War, died Monday at 91.

Well, her little girl was only five-years old when she was raped and murdered. Her mother finally gets the chance to take on her killer in court.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want you to disappear into the abyss of a lifetime in prison, where no one will remember you, no one will pray for you, and no one will care when you die.

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LIN: You'll hear everything she had to say. And don't forget our last call question. They've carried out the acts of violence on the West. So why do you think the terrorists hate us? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: The headlines tonight and tomorrow. Investigators in Egypt search for bodies and clues in a series of deadly bombings. Two suicide car bombs, plus an explosive device went off today in the resort city of Sharm El-Sheik. At least 83 people died, including foreign tourists who were killed. More than 200 were injured.

And tropical storm Franklin gaining strength, as it churns into open water and away from the U.S. Franklin has top winds of nearly 70 miles an hour, just shy of hurricane status. But forecasters say there may be little or nothing left of the storm in two or three days.

A U.S. cyclist Lance Armstrong on track to win his seventh consecutive Tour de France. Armstrong gave his best performance in the race today, winning the next to last stage. He takes a nearly five minute lead into tomorrow's final stage into Paris. He planned to retire this year, win or lose.

An Amber Alert has been issued for a Nevada girl believed abducted by a convicted sex offender. Police are looking for this girl, eight-year old Lydia Rupp. They say she was abducted from her home yesterday by Fernando Aguerro. Police say he's driving a blue 2001 Kia Rio with no license plates. They say he has relatives in Reno, Nevada and San Diego, California and may be headed to one of those cities.

And now, what you are about to hear will be difficult to sit through and impossible to turn away from. A man named Alejandro Avila was sentenced to death yesterday for kidnapping, molesting, and murdering young Samantha Runnion.

Samantha was only five-years old when she was kidnapped in July of 2002. Her body was found the next day 50 miles away. She had been sexually assaulted and suffocated. Her case led to the expansion of nationwide Amber Alerts. Well, in court yesterday, Samantha's mother, Erin Runnion, looked her daughter's killer right in the eye and spoke with such emotion and such courage, we want you to see and hear it all. This is her entire unedited statement.

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ERIN RUNNION, VICTIM'S MOTHER: I have written and rewritten what I would say to the man who killed Samantha. And you better pay attention, because I never want to address you again. You don't deserve a place in my family's history.

And so, I want you to live. I want you to disappear into the abyss of a lifetime in prison, where no one will remember you, no one will pray for you, and no one will care when you die.

Since Samantha's death, I have felt more conflict, more hate and rage than I ever thought possible, but I love that little girl so much, that it would be a horrible insult to her to let my hate for you take more -- any space in my heart and in my head for my memory of her.

I am supposed to speak to the impact of this crime on my life. And there is no describing the impact. And I'm not sure you're intelligent enough to ever comprehend it anyway.

I wrote this statement on the third anniversary of the night you took my baby and you hurt her. And you crushed her, you terrified her until her heart stopped.

And she fought. And I know she fought you. I know she looked at you with those amazing brown eyes and you still wanted to kill her. And I don't understand it. And I never will.

It's like you never learned to think. You have absolutely no concept of how heinous, how egregious your acts were. I can't help but wonder how it is you survived as long as you did being so stupid.

You killed a child with a loving and passionate heart. Samantha was outrageously bright and funny. She wasn't demanding. She didn't ask for everything under the sun. Just to play and have fun as much as humanly possible.

Why would you want to take that away? I have researched and really thought about pedophiles and your psychology and blah, blah, blah. You're a human being. You know pain and you know fear. How dare you pretend she wasn't real.

I want an apology. Some day, what I really want is I want you to feel the impact of what you did.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take him out of protective custody.

RUNNION: I want you to realize how much you stole. I have to take family photos today with my family. And my little girl isn't there. She's always going to be missing.

Every happy moment of my life has a moment of gut wrenching agony because she's not there. And I have to stop and acknowledge how much it hurts to live without her.

Samantha made me feel like I had a purpose on this planet. She was so incredible, that I felt sure that if I just did what I could to give her every opportunity to become the best person she could be, and I didn't mess her up in the meantime, she would have done something really wonderful for this world. She wanted to be a dancer and a teacher and a mother. She loved so many things. She had so much passion for life. I'll never know what she would have become.

My family's life was shattered. For the past three years, we've been trying to paste it back together, but this huge void. And the lack of her laughter, of art on the walls, of her dancing and her singing and her running and her jumping and her swinging and her smiling, the lack of Samantha is actually a part of our life now. And the pain is impossible to describe.

And the guilt I have to live with for bringing that sweet baby into this world, only to be tortured and terrified. I am so sorry. And you should be so sorry you took her away. You should be so sorry, not sorry you got caught. Not sorry that your wasted life will be taken, as if it's worth could ever compare, but sorry that you took the life. You took the life of a very special little girl, but you just don't care.

You have no idea of what it is to love someone. You have no concept of what life is about. And yet, you are so arrogant as to think you had a right to take it.

Well, everything in me wants to hurt you in every possible way when I'm very honest with myself. And it's a harder place to be. What I want is you to feel remorse.

There is so much misery built into being a human being, that I can't fathom what would make you want to add to it.

In choosing to destroy Samantha's life, you chose this. You chose to waste your life to satisfy a selfish and sick desire. You knew it was wrong and you chose not to think about it. Well, now you have a lot of time to think about it. Don't waste it. Write it down so that the rest of us can figure out how to stop you people. You're a disgrace to the human race.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: Powerful words from the mother of Samantha Runnion.

So how can parents keep their children safe? Well, I'm going to be talking with Marc Klaas, who knows all too well about this subject when CNN SATURDAY NIGHT returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LIN: Well, we've just heard the Samantha Runnion case has led to the expansion of nationwide abduction alerts for missing children. But what lessons have we learned from the Samantha Runnion case? And how can parents keep their children safe?

I want to talk about this with Marc Klaas. His 12-year old daughter Polly Klaas was kidnapped and killed back in 1993. And since then, he has worked tirelessly to keep other children safe.

He's founder of the group Klaas Kids and beyondmissing.com. And he joins me now from San Francisco.

Marc, it seems like almost an impossible task. I mean, your daughter was at home. I mean, Samantha Runnion was playing right outside of where her grandmother was inside taking care of the dishes.

Is there a solution? Is there any way to protect these kids?

MARC KLAAS, BEYONDMISSING.COM: Well, there certainly is. But what we have to understand, Carol, is that we cannot put the burden of the issue on the shoulders of the children.

What these cases continually demonstrate to us is that there's not really a child alive that's prepared or in any way able to defend themselves against a determined predator.

So the answer is yes, we can protect children from these individuals, but we have to do it through the adult channels. We can't tell the kids don't talk to strangers and think that we've done anything, because what we see is these people come into the homes. There are so many victimizations that aren't strangers anyway, that we have to take a much different kind of an approach.

And what I like to think is that if we start at the family kitchen table, and work our way through society, all the way to the president's cabinet table, then we can create and find effective solutions.

LIN: All right. Well, let's be more specific. I mean, are you saying have a specific conversation with your kids? And if so, at what age? And what do you say?

KLAAS: Well, I think you always want to talk to your kids. And you want to tell them that these kinds of cases like little Samantha or all of these cases that we've seen this year really don't happen too often, because we certainly don't want our children to be afraid.

What we want to do is give them good information. We want to tell them, for instance, that they should always check with their parents, that they should always be outside with at least one other person, that they should trust their feelings, that if something feels wrong, it is. And that the vast majority of strangers would help children out of dangerous situations.

Now I think we would also want to give our kids that are 10-years old or older their own cell phones, just to be able to have that, you know, constant contact, if it's necessary.

But again, you know, we want to give our kids good information, but we can't put the burden of the issue on their shoulders.

LIN: All right. Let's put the burden on the legal system. Alejandro Avila. All right, Erin Runnion, we didn't show this portion of it, but she looked right at his defense -- and him and his defense attorneys. And she also said, because he had been prosecuted in the past and let off, she blamed every single juror who let him free in the past, so that he was free to attack her daughter.

What needs to be done to these guys? He gets the death sentence, but what he did to that little girl, I don't think the death sentence is even just enough for what he did to her.

KLAAS: Well, indeed. But if he had been given anything less than the death sentence for murdering that child, it would have really diminished the crime. These are the worst possible crimes.

LIN: All right. So what about mandatory castration? What needs to be done? They can't be cured.

KLAAS: No, I don't think that that's the answer. No, I think what we have to do is once we've determined that these guys are predators, once we've determined that they're psychopaths or pedophiles, then what we want to do is put them where they can't harm innocent people.

Whether that's longer sentencing, whether that's some form of civil commitment, I don't know what. But we have to keep these rabid dogs out of our neighborhoods or these kinds of crimes will continue to happen.

And that's the point. You allow these guys on the street, and terrible things are going to happen. And they're going to happen on a regular basis.

Now when this situation with -- Mrs. Runnion is absolutely correct. Erin is absolutely correct that a lot of people made mistakes and allowed that particular predator to remain on the street or to be on the street. But we see this time after time after time.

Whether it's Richard Allen Davis, whether it's John Couey, whether it's Joseph Duncan, it just continues to happen. And...

LIN: So where does the legal system let these guys off? How do they get out?

KLAAS: Well...

LIN: Why don't the original accusations hold up in court?

KLAAS: Well, because the defense attorneys lie. I mean, it's as simple as that, isn't it? I mean, in this case with Avila, what they tried to do is -- what they did is convince the jury that the information that was on his Internet, on his computer had been planted by law enforcement. And they also challenged the veracity of the two victims.

I mean, you know, they dissed little girls who were simply telling the truth. So you know, I know this guy says it's his ethical duty, but my goodness, look at the result of that duty. No wonder she is so terribly upset.

What we have to do is we have to give victims in this country some kind of equity. You realize, Carol, that that statement that Erin made is the only time she's ever been allowed to make a statement in court. Other than that, she has to sit there and she has to be quiet. And she has to not emote. And she has to keep from making eye contact with the jury.

So what she did is very, very important.

LIN: Yes.

KLAAS: And it sent a very powerful message.

LIN: Had to be nearly impossible, Marc. I mean, I don't know if I could have it in me, if someone did that to my daughter, to not go after him with fisted cuffs, that she had to maintain herself for three years, that she knew that the DNA evidence that they found in his car were from tears from her daughter crying. It is unimaginable what that woman went through. And yet, any predator who's watching tonight, Marc, you know that they don't feel a thing. They didn't hear what this woman said.

KLAAS: They don't feel a thing -- that's exactly right. And she'll never get that apology. And he'll never understand what he did. He'll never understand her pain.

What I can say, Carol, and I'd like to say this, is that I was in Erin's situation. And it took me years and years and years to be able to get to a point where I even wanted to live again. But I can assure her that at some point at the other end of the decade, she's going to find -- she's going to be able to appreciate the beautiful things in life again.

But you're right. These guys have no heart. They have no conscience. That's why they're predators. That's why they do what they do. And they'll continue to do it, as long as we enable them and allow them to.

Now you know there's legislation in Congress right now that's being -- I don't even think it's being debated. I think this stuff is going to fly right through.

It's going to address a lot of these issues. And hopefully then, as a society, now that we're getting a handle on it, we'll be able to really bring the hammer down and treat these guys the way they treat us, which is not very well.

LIN: What's the best thing that could come out of that bill, Marc? I mean...

KLAAS: Pardon me?

LIN: What's the best thing that could come out of that bill that's in Congress right now?

KLAAS: Well, the best thing that can come out of the bill is better control. Isn't it? What they're doing is they're doing longer sentences, but they're also doing civil commitment, which gives the court system an out. It gives the legal system a way to maintain these guys, if they are still determined to be bad boys.

And that's the problem. They serve out their time. And then they're allowed back out onto the street.

LIN: Yes.

KLAAS: And everybody knows what's going to happen.

LIN: Yes, because in Avila's case, you know, it was the woe is me defense. You know, I was abused as a child. I've never known love in my life, blah, blah, blah, blah. And what Erin Runnion was able to say to him is, you know what? The bottom line is you're a human being and you know what pain is. And you inflicted that on a five-year old little girl.

KLAAS: You know, I don't buy into this stuff, Carol. I've talked to a lot of people who have been abused in their lives. And people come up and confide things in me.

And without exception, they tell me that because of the abuse that they had to suffer, they've made darn sure that their children are able to live good, solid lives and not have to be messed up like they were.

So you know, the fact that you're abused certainly doesn't mean that you're going to be a monster. It certainly doesn't mean that you're going to be the next generation of predator. I think it becomes a really excuse for a lot of these guys.

LIN: You bet. Well, you know what? Erin Runnion said that Samantha Runnion, she was so bright, that who knew what she would grow up to be, the amazing things and the changes that she could make in people's lives. And if nothing else comes out of this case, Marc, that could be happening right now. I mean, a tragic death, but Samantha Runnion could be making a difference in all of our lives.

KLAAS: Well, she will. And certainly Samantha's death was not in vain. And I think Erin did a very good job of demonstrating that she's not just another little statistic.

LIN: You bet. Marc Klaas, thank you very much.

KLAAS: Sure.

LIN: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LIN: In Hollywood, sex sells, but there are some things Hollywood stars would rather keep confidential. Take actor Colin Farrell. He's suing his former girlfriend for allegedly trying to sell a sex tape the two made a few years ago.

He says they agreed it would never be made public. Other actors face similar predicaments.

Attorney Anne Bremner is live in Seattle to talk about celebrities and sex, and how these summer blockbusters will likely play out in the courts.

Anne, we just alluded to it in the last paragraph, but really, we're talking about Cameron Diaz. I mean, she's, you know, she's in a court battle right now to keep these...

ANNE BREMNER, ATTORNEY: Yes.

LIN: ...topless pictures of herself taken when she was a 19-year old model, off the market. So far, there -- you know, the photographer isn't allowed to sell them in any way, but do you think that she's got legs to stand on in this case?

BREMNER: Well, Carol, you know, looking at this case, it's like, you know, the road to stardom is filled with embarrassing moments or calculated forays.

This is something that she voluntarily did and was filmed. And now she's saying they're trying to show me as a bad angel. Remember she was in "Charlie's Angels"? Or she's no angel.

But here's the thing. The judge gave her an injunction. And this -- her signature was found to be forged on a release. There were no model releases of anybody in this film. And of course, there was an extortion attempt, where this person was charged with attempting to get $3.3 million from her right before "Charlie's Angels" was released. So yes, she does have a leg to stand on.

LIN: She says that she's not ashamed of the pictures. So why is she afraid that they're going to end up in publication?

BREMNER: Well, she's not ashamed of them in one sense. And I think that she said she thought she looked pretty good.

LIN: She's 19 and topless. What's the harm, you know?

BREMNER: I was going to say. I mean, we could all -- I would love to look like that. But any other sense, that she felt that it would hurt her career, because these were kind of -- they call them, you know -- frisky pictures. They were bondage pictures. And there were nothing that she would like to be associated with, as she now is a superstar in her own right.

LIN: Well, do you think that if she wasn't a movie star, this would be handled differently?

BREMNER: Totally differently, Carol.

LIN: In what way?

BREMNER: Because if there are pictures of anybody on the street, pictures of me, for instance, I don't have this goodwill and image as a movie star that I need to uphold. And so, it's not kind of a business interference.

Not only that, but you know, I sell my image as a movie star. Let's say I'm a movie star, Cameron Diaz, for example. She sells her image as a movie star. And so, there's also a competition if someone tries to go out and sell her image in competition with what is hers and what she owns.

LIN: So the court would see this as in a business light? And that's how they might rule in this case?

BREMNER: That's right. I mean, it's a violation of right to privacy asserted here, but also kind of a business interference.

LIN: Right.

BREMNER: And a damage to reputation.

LIN: All right. Well, Colin Farrell has an image as a bad boy. OK, so there's a 15 minute sex tape out there with a former girlfriend. He got a restraining order. But does he have much of a case here?

BREMNER: Well, now "People" magazine called him the sexiest man alive. And yes, he has a bad boy image. He's been sued by a phone sex person for his raunchy messages to her. But that was dismissed.

Bad boy image. Lots of girlfriends. Lots of romances, etcetera.

Now here's the thing in his case, Carol. Aside from that reputation, just put that aside, you know, is he damaged? He had an agreement with his ex-girlfriend, then Playboy bunny, that they would never get -- release this.

LIN: Verbal agreement?

BREMNER: It was confidential. The verbal agreement that he says a verbal contract. So that's a little different than Cameron Diaz in that this was not commercial. He did not voluntarily put this in a way that could be disseminated, put himself out there. And it's confidential.

She is a defendant in this case, as is this person that wants to disseminate it, a man named Schmidt.

So a little different there. And then, finally for him, you know, he's basically saying that -- he got an injunction, too.

LIN: Yes. BREMNER: He's saying that this is going to damage his career and also it's private. But one more thing. I can talk about this forever. But one more thing is look at Paris Hilton.

LIN: Yes.

BREMNER: You know, look at Pamela Anderson. They did better in their careers...

LIN: All right.

BREMNER: ...by virtue of these types of tapes.

LIN: All right. You know, if you don't want it out there, don't tape yourself. Anyway, Anne Bremner, great to see you on a Saturday night. Thanks so much.

BREMNER: Thanks, Carol.

LIN: Coming up, a check of the headlines and then "CNN PRESENTS." A progress report in the war in Iraq.

But first, your responses to our last call question. They've carried out acts of violence on the West. So why do you think terrorists hate us? Here's what you had to say. Have a great night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLER: The reason they hate us is because of our unequal support of Israel and the Palestinian crisis. We should be more equal handed.

CALLER: It's just an evil ideology, like the Nazis. And it's very similar. It's just an ideology of hatred.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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