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Out of This World; Iraqi Military Training; Unusual Proposal
Aired July 26, 2005 - 13:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: An astronomic hurdle cleared today, as the Shuttle Discovery hurtled into space. Our next guest was among the many observers who were actually filled with relief when that launch went off safely. But Captain Jeff Ashby may also have experienced maybe the teeniest bit of envy that he wasn't on board. He was the pilot on Space Shuttle Columbia, though, and Space Shuttle Endeavor, and was mission commander here aboard Space Shuttle Atlantis. He's made 436 orbits around the Earth, and he knows what an amazing moment in space history that today was.
Great to see you, Jeff.
CAPT. JEFF ASHBY, FLEW THREE SHUTTLE MISSIONS: Good to see you, Kyra.
PHILLIPS: So was it just a massive sigh of relief? Could you hear everybody cheering and taking that sort of downwind from across the country when it happened?
ASHBY: You know, I could. I was in the Joint Operation Center at U.S. Northern Command, a very business-like atmosphere. But there was still a little whoop that went up at liftoff and another one at main-engine cutoff. Very exciting.
PHILLIPS: Just to let folks know, at U.S. Northern Command, when you're manning that post, you're taking care of all the security around the shuttle, with strike fighters ready to launch if there's indeed a problem, but just making sure airspace is safe so the shuttle lifts without problems, right?
ASHBY: Yes, there are thousands of people around country that contribute to a shuttle launch, many of them from the services, the military services. Of course it was a very professional environment this morning during the countdown and the launch.
PHILLIPS: All right, so where's the crew now? what are they doing?
Well, they just finished a period we call post-insertion, where they prepare the space shuttle for the next 12 days of flight. They take down the seats. They set up computers and things, and they prepare mostly for the rendezvous, which will happen in a couple of days, and they also prepare the systems for the robotic work that will be conducted tomorrow. Inside, they're having a lot of fun, I think. The rookies are getting their first look out the window, and it's a very, very exciting time for a crew, to be safely in orbit. PHILLIPS: And of course they're headed to the International Space Station. You did that. Tell us what that's like and why that's so important and the international connection and also what it's like when you're looking out and you can actually see the connection made and the hatch open and there you go.
ASHBY: Well, it's -- the International Space Station is a project being built by 16 country from around the globe, all working together. It's 240 miles altitude. It's about the size of an airliner. And in two days, Eileen's crew will rendevous and dock with that space station, and she'll get the incredible privilege of opening the hatch and shaking the hands of the two astronauts, one Russian, one American, that have been on orbit for four months. They'll be the first visitors in four months.
PHILLIPS: Wow. And when -- we even have some tape of you from your mission on Atlantis when you did that, when you were actually the shuttle commander. We see you here getting ready, and we'll kind of let this tape roll. But I remember when I saw you go through the hatch, just the excitement on both sides. Tell me why that is such a meaningful moment and why everybody's so happy to see each other, and then what you do as sort of a combined crew once you come together at the International Space Station.
ASHBY: Well, we're all friends, so it's great to see one another again. It's great to have the rendezvous and docking complete, so there's a measure of relief when you open the hatch and enter. And it's just magical up there. It's an incredible place with a lot of medical research being done. and research that will eventually allow us to get on to mars. I just can't describe all the emotions that go through you in 12 days, just one after another. It's just incredible.
PHILLIPS: And right here we're seeing the connection to the hatch. We saw you inside the shuttle, and now we're actually seeing you come through and hook up with other members of the crew there at the International Space Station.
And as we look at this, and hopefully this is what the crew of Discovery will be doing soon, let's talk about other goals of this mission, in addition to just getting to the International Space Station. But there's safety factors involved in other parts of this mission that are so important for space exploration right now.
ASHBY: This is a very typical mission for the space station, and very much like the ones that we've flown for the next five years. Part of it will include the maintenance and assembly on the International Space Station. This mission, very important, because it brings up much-needed supplies, and will take away a lot of equipment that's been stored up there, without a way to get back to Earth for two-and-a-half years. So they'll make a lot of room for the crew up there.
PHILLIPS: And of course you talk about the bigger scheme, and that is once this wraps up or this, or this, I guess, level of space exploration, it's Mars that you're all focussing on right now. ASHBY: Yes, the new NASA vision, initiated by President Bush last year, has us returning the shuttle to flight -- today was the first step -- completing the International Space Station to honor our foreign commitments, and learn how to get out into deep space, then we'll go back to the moon and on to Mars, with human, probably within the next couple decades.
PHILLIPS: Wow. Now, the risk factor. I've got to ask you about this, because I was reading about it in the papers, and NASA was talking about it, coming out and saying, look, there's a one in 100 chance there could be a catastrophic failure. Why do you think it was important to come out and say that and get that out into the press?
ASHBY: Well, although this was probably the safest shuttle launch ever, it is still quite risky. And I think we all, including some of us at NASA, forgot that. Before Columbia, we'd forgotten how risky it was and how careful we really had to.
PHILLIPS: Wow, and I bet nothing is more -- I guess really it's a great feel to see the lift off, but seeing them come home and land safely, that's got to be the best moment.
ASHBY: Well, of course we're all looking forward to that. But liftoff is like it's always been. I felt the mixture of -- little bit of nervousness, a lot of adrenaline, and just an intense pride in NASA in NASA and in our country that we can bounce back from Columbia and return Americans to space to explore the universe.
PHILLIPS: There's nothing like strapping into that shuttle and getting ready to go. What goes through your mind, Jeff, when you're doing that?
ASHBY: Well, everybody thinks about different things. My thoughts generally go to my family, and to my teachers, and friends and all the people that helped me get to that position where I could contribute to a great project like this.
PHILLIPS: Well, I know the families of Columbia, a lot of them were watching today, the first lady, you, all kinds of people around the world. And I know it was a great moment, and I think the Columbia crew is smiling from the heavens. What do you think?
ASHBY: Oh, I'm quite sure. I knew them all very well. And Had I been in their position, this is what I would have wished for America that -- and the world, that we return and build this international space station as one great world at peace.
PHILLIPS: Captain Jeff Ashby, you couldn't have buttoned it up more perfectly. Thanks for your time, Jeff.
ASHBY: Thank you, Kyra. It's great to be here with you.
PHILLIPS: Absolute pleasure.
ASHBY: Straight ahead, their country's is counting on them and so is ours. Iraq's finest in training, a closer look at how ready Iraq's security forces are to take the reigns against the insurgency. We're live from Baghdad coming up next.
And what would you give Bill Clinton to marry his daughter Chelsea? One man's answer in our first ever bonus story triple. That's right, we said triple. Lisa Clark, she wrote them all, and she is ready for you to hear her script. LIVE FROM straight ahead.
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PHILLIPS: Fasten your seatbelts, everyone. It's an unprecedented LIVE FROM bonus story trifecta, starting with this.
An amazing feat of feet, shall we say. State line, Ashbourne, England and the 12th annual toe-wrestling competition. Don't ask us why. Don't ask us if bunions are a disqualification. All we can tell you, there are two winners.
Now to Kenya, where a lovestruck government official has offered visiting former president Bill Clinton 40 goats and 20 cows for the hand of his daughter Chelsea in marriage. The dowry is considered very generous by local standards. Our crack staff is currently researching livestock zoning ordinances in Chappaqua, New York. Stay tuned.
And finally, a salute to the surviving crew of the U.S.S. Indianapolis. The Indy should have made World War I history, only for delivering the first atomic bomb to the South Pacific. But it's what happened after Indy dropped off the bomb that's the real story. Today is the 60th anniversary of the last time the ship and most of her crew were ever seen again. Stay tuned to LIVE FROM this week for more on what is widely regarded as the U.S. Navy's greatest sea disaster.
More LIVE FROM right after this.
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PHILLIPS: Enemies among them? A new Pentagon report says it's likely the Iraqi police have been infiltrated by insurgents and other criminals. Their report blames recruitment and vetting procedures and suggests that the Iraqi government should take over the process. More than 1,600 Iraqi police have been killed in the attacks just over the past year.
Now, the Bush administration says a properly trained Iraqi police force is a key step in starting to bring U.S. troops home. CNN's Aneesh Raman takes a look at where the current force stands and how soon it might be able to stand on its own.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A rare glimpse of the best of the best in Iraq. The men on whom the coalition forces are counting on in order to exit this country. From Special Ops storming a mock village to police SWAT teams boarding a bus with possible insurgents, these are Iraqi security forces in training, admired this day by the prime minister, making his first visit to see troops, taking some shots himself and gauging, along with his cabinet, when Iraqi forces might be ready to take over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'll be very surprised if the coalition forces will not start pulling out by middle of next year. And...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In sizable numbers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In sizable numbers, yes.
RAMAN: Given the recent spate of suicide bombings, the pressure is mounting on Iraqi forces to get ready quickly.
(on camera) The importance of what's happening here behind me really cannot be overstated. Any potential for a secure and stable Iraq relies heavily on the success of these men.
(voice-over) Estimates put the number trained of Iraqi security forces at about 150,000, but only a small fraction of them are currently operational in the field. And even those, by most accounts, are still unprepared for the reality on the ground.
IBRAHIM AL-JAAFARI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Terrorism can take many forms. It can come to you in a market or a school or a hospital. It does not only target the military. It targets humanity itself.
RAMAN: This is, of course, an elaborate photo op, not actual combat. How will fare there is a critical concern, as well as how they will fare without American forces by their side.
The challenge is underscored by what you don't see in these pictures: the faces of Iraqi forces. We were not allowed to show them. They fear that, if seen on television, they would become targets of insurgents.
But in the presence of the prime minister, these soldiers are also demonstrating commitment. Starting an army from scratch is hard enough. Whether it can be accomplished in the face of a brutal insurgency is one of the key challenges facing Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PHILLIPS: Aneesh Raman joins us now live from Baghdad. And Aneesh, incredible report. It was great to go inside and see that training. But let's talk about the screening now. The Pentagon talking about this report, about insurgents infiltrating the Iraqi police. What is being done? What have you witnessed and what have you learned about the screening process to make sure these well- trained men are honest?
RAMAN: Well, we know very little specifically about what screening process takes place, how they vet those that can join either the police or the security forces. But what I got a better glimpse of in that report was the training that is taking place. It has been, for a long time, an assumption on the ground, Kyra, the Iraqis are best suited to do as much as they can at any given time. The question has always been, when are they ready to start taking over different parts of this country?
In terms of the training, the U.S. military has been very cognizant about the fact that Iraqis need to train other Iraqis. It needs to be a sustainable system that can continue when the coalition forces start to withdraw. And that is what we saw starting to take place. Those forces that you're seeing in live fire exercises, they were trained by Iraqis and now they will go on to train other Iraqis.
And so numbers, we're told, aren't essentially the number. Right now, in terms of the training, it's about infrastructure, it's getting more facilities, like the top-notch one we saw, out throughout the country, and getting more instructors really up to par to what they should be teaching.
Now, the screening brings us up to another issue entirely, which is who were actually coming to join the security forces. You'll recall the entire army was disbanded here early on. Many of the people who are coming for monetary reasons. Unemployment here, 20 to 50 percent. And they were put through very quick training processes and thrown out into the field. Now, though, since the January elections, we're told that there has been a visible rise in terms of patriotism by those that are joining. They see the war now as the insurgents versus civilians, and so they're getting essentially better recruits.
But again, the screening process has to be scrutinized very carefully, because Iraqis complain all over the country really about police abuse, about policemen who are taking the law into their own hands. And so this is something that the country is confronting, that the military is confronting. The result is what we're waiting to see -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, you look at the training. I mean, it looks just like SWAT training in the United States, when you look at these tactics and what they're doing. It looks very professional. But my question is also, on behalf of the civilians -- I mean do the -- first, people were a little concerned about the U.S. military. Now we're talking about Iraqis training Iraqis after receiving SWAT training from elsewhere. Do civilians trust these Iraqi police officers?
RAMAN: That right now is the critical issue. Where do civilians feel they can turn, in terms of security forces, for help? And so when you saw early on, as you said, civilians backing away from the U.S. military, the thought was that a rising force of Iraqis would be able to bridge that divide, would be able to gain the trust of the people, get better intelligence.
But what we've seen are a number of policemen out on street, essentially taking the law into their own hands. There is a notion of sectarianism. A large majority of the police officers are Shia. The military now making a very cognizant effort to go and outreach into the Sunni communities.
But for the Iraqi people, there isn't a palpable trust in the security forces. They recognize a lot of policemen who are on the front line are bearing the brunt of insurgent attacks, that when suicide bombs go off, they are often at checkpoints. There is huge respect for what these men are doing, especially for those who are on the front line at these checkpoints. But in terms of the overall security forces they're still gaining the trust of the Iraqi people and it's critical that they don't lose that task -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Aneesh Raman, live from Baghdad. Great reporting. Thank you, Aneesh.
And I'm just getting word, too. Right after a quick break, you're not going to want to miss this. Remember that story we told you about? An individual offering a very unique dowry for President Clinton's daughter? We've got him on the line. Don't go away.
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PHILLIPS: Got a lot come coming up in the second hour of LIVE FROM. Are American mass-transit systems any safer than those in London? That's what we're talking about today on Capitol Hill. The latest on your security straight ahead.
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PHILLIPS: I know this is exactly why you tuned in to LIVE FROM, for stories just like this. You know, just a few moments ago, we told you in Kenya that this love-struck politician who met the former President Bill Clinton has actually come forward and made an offer. He's hoping that Chelsea will take his hand in marriage. Now I'm told the dowry is very generous, considered very generous by local standards. He's offered for the hand of Chelsea, and we're talking about 40 goats and 20 cows.
Godwin is on the phone with us from Kenya, 35-year-old Godwin Chepkurgor. Can you hear me OK, Godwin?
GODWIN CHEPKURGOR, NAKURA, KENYA: Yes, I'm hearing you.
PHILLIPS: So did you actually meet president Clinton?
CHEPKURGOR: I did not manage to meet him.
PHILLIPS: OK, so you didn't have a chance to tell him while he was in Kenya that you were interested in marrying her daughter?
CHEPKURGOR: I didn't manage.
PHILLIPS: OK, tell me about Chelsea. What is it about Chelsea that you find so attractive?
CHEPKURGOR: I have not met her personally, but I've seen her through media. I've looked at the family, the mother and the father. I've seen their whole family (INAUDIBLE), and I really like them. I saw Chelsea when he was at the university, through to the media, and also (INAUDIBLE), and I love her.
PHILLIPS: You love her? And how long have you been in love with her, tell me, Godwin.
CHEPKURGOR: About seven years now.
PHILLIPS: Seven years. Now, you're a city councillor there in Kenya. What kind of life can you offer Chelsea?
CHEPKURGOR: What kind of what?
PHILLIPS: What kind of life can you offer Chelsea Clinton?
CHEPKURGOR: Life?
PHILLIPS: Yes what type of life?
CHEPKURGOR: I hope (INAUDIBLE) good, according to (INAUDIBLE). I know there's a lot of differences in our culture, status, and the distance and many other things, but I hope to give her the best that I can offer. (INAUDIBLE) good.
PHILLIPS: So are you trying to arrange an actual chance to meet her?
CHEPKURGOR: Yes.
PHILLIPS: You are? And how are you going about doing that?
CHEPKURGOR: In my letter I have given some references. One of them being the former president of this country, and the charity of a women group here in Kenya, and I talked to the (INAUDIBLE) women leader, and she has promised me that she's going to check up...
PHILLIPS: Yes?
CHEPKURGOR: ... and make arrangements. In fact, she was to do that while Clinton was here, but somehow it was (INAUDIBLE), and she promised me that she'd made arrangements, maybe even if it means to travel all the way to New York, because she has told me that she knows Hillary Clinton personally.
PHILLIPS: Well, City Counsel councillor, Godwin Chepkurgor, I wish you the best of luck. I hope you are able to connect somehow with Chelsea Clinton. Forty goats and 20 cows. I think that maybe if you meet her, you might want to talk about dinner and the theater, OK.
CHEPKURGOR: Yes.
PHILLIPS: OK, Godwin, God luck.
CHEPKURGOR: God bless you so much.
PHILLIPS: And to you. More LIVE FROM coming up right now.
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