Return to Transcripts main page

American Morning

In London, Police Round Up More Suspects in Expanding Terror Investigation; Could Long Struggle with IRA be Ending?

Aired July 28, 2005 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: New developments in London as police round up more suspects in their expanding terror investigation. Nine men arrested this morning, three women arrested last night. A live report is ahead.
Breaking news on Britain's other terrorism front. Could the long struggle with the IRA be ending? Reports of a major announcement are just being released.

And the shuttle Discovery making an acrobatic maneuver as it docks with the International Space Station. But will it be the last time?

On this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What was that guy carrying? What was that guy carrying?

S. O'BRIEN: I don't know. I didn't see him go by.

M. O'BRIEN: Did you see that?

S. O'BRIEN: I was focused on the show, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Oh, I'm sorry.

Hello.

Nice to see you folks.

S. O'BRIEN: Not the people who walk behind us.

M. O'BRIEN: Just watching the people go by here this morning.

S. O'BRIEN: Good morning.

Welcome back.

Also ahead, have you noticed all these dealers who try to get you to buy a new car?

M. O'BRIEN: I have noticed them.

S. O'BRIEN: You need a new car.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, I do need a new car.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Is it working?

M. O'BRIEN: And I might have been a little slow to act here. They seem to be working. People like that employee discount thing. The problem is the car companies aren't making much money and as a result, there are fewer actual employees now getting the real discounts. That's probably why they're switching the deal out.

S. O'BRIEN: Plus, if you put so many things on sale, at the end of the day, do you really make a lot of money? I mean that's...

M. O'BRIEN: Make it up on volume? No, not necessarily. No.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. We'll see about that. We're going to talk more about that this morning.

First, though, some developments to tell us about in this London terror investigation. This morning, police arrested nine men, although none of them are believed to be the actual would-be bombers. The manhunt now focuses on the three suspected bombers who are still at large.

Last night, three women were arrested on suspicion of harboring offenders in connection with last week's plot. And some chilling new images, as well. Look at this X-ray of a mail bomb that was found in the trunk of one of the bomber's cars.

Our senior international correspondent Nic Robertson is in front of Scotland Yard in London for us this morning -- Nic, good morning.

What are these nail images that we've just shown there telling investigators?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're telling the investigators that that first team that struck in London on the 7th of July, they left their car at Luton train station. That's the car that the bombs were found in. They're telling the police essentially that these -- that the bombs that they designed were designed to cause maximum injury to people. If you look at those nails that were sort of gaffa taped, cella taped on the outside of the bombs, designed to cause maximum injury.

Now we also know that the police have been able to identify the containers used in the bombs that failed to go off last week. So what it's telling investigators now is that they've got a set of bombs from that first bombing team and a set of bombs from the second bombing team. They should be able to make forensic comparisons of the two bombing substances, the two explosive materials. Were they made in the same place? Were they made, perhaps, to the same recipe? At different locations? One bomb maker? Two bomb makers? How was it organized? What happened with the second set of bombs? The police say they know why they didn't go off. Was it because of the detonators? So the police will be able to narrow down a lot of things now that they have the two sets of bombs. But the very clear image that comes across from these bombs that the police now have the photographs of shows that they were designed to cause absolutely the most -- the massive -- a massive amount of personal injury and damage -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Nic, what do you know about this guy who was captured on Wednesday, Yasin Hassan Omar? Is he being cooperative? Is he giving some good information to police?

ROBERTSON: It's not clear. He was brought to London police station yesterday morning, the Paddington Green police station. It's a high security police station. It's where the police quiz all their terror suspects here in London.

Perhaps one of the most important things is does he have information? If he is cooperating with the police, does he have information that can lead the police quickly to these other three bombers? We know that the police are still looking for the names of two of these other three suspected bombers. So he should be able to provide those names. But more importantly, can he tell the police where they're hiding, because the police think that they can strike again. And that's, perhaps, the most critical piece of the information. And the police aren't telling us that at the moment, whether he's cooperating to that extent -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Can he and, really, will he? I mean is he really motivated to talk? Here's a guy who was going to blew himself up, so maybe he just doesn't really care to discuss it with the police.

Nic Robertson for us in front of Scotland Yard this morning.

Nic, thanks -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: The Space Shuttle Discovery is now docked at the International Space Station.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Houston, alpha Discovery. We have contact and capture. The shuttle is in free drift.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Contact and capture -- good works. The orbiter met up with the International Space Station less than an hour ago. Discovery will deliver a number of supplies, including food and computers, an important gyroscope.

Before the docking, this rare maneuver. Rare because, of course, the commander can't see the space station doing this pirouette. Discovery rolled over so photos could be taken of its underside by the crew of the Space Station, an attempt to make sure there is no serious damage to any of the heat shield tiles. And the engineers here on the ground say that the orbiter looks good and the crew is in good shape for a reentry. But this mission -- and there are questions, at least, this morning, of whether this mission could be the shuttle's last. NASA has grounded all future launches for its entire shuttle fleet. The move stems from this scene two minutes, six seconds after lift-off on Tuesday. A large piece of foam there on the left side of your screen falling off, falling harmlessly, in this case. But, of course, two- and-a-half years ago it was a large piece of foam that fell on the Shuttle Columbia and caused that fatal breach to the heat shield there. All seven Columbia astronauts were killed on reentry 16 days later.

Astronaut Laura Clark was on board Columbia when it broke apart over Texas during reentry.

Her husband, Dr. Jonathan Clark, is a NASA flight surgeon.

He joins me once again from Washington.

Jon, good to have you back with us.

When you heard about this, it must have been, well, there must have been a range of emotions.

DR. JONATHAN CLARK, NASA FLIGHT SURGEON: Yes, Miles.

When I heard about it last night, I thought wow! I mean the first thing that came to my mind is if the shuttle fleet is grounded, then one of the options, which is the shuttle rescue, the STS-300 scenario, would not be necessarily available. And I'm not sure if that is actually the official NASA position or not.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, they said they would sort of take that decision as it comes. And they say fortunately it appears to be a moot issue. Of course, it is possible that that rescue mission could be required at some point. And that is a difficult one. Who'd want to sign off on yet another launch of yet another vehicle when you know this foam is falling off?

CLARK: Well, you're absolutely right about that. And I think it's been my impression that the NASA management team that looks at these things is really doing a very thorough job. Mike Griffin had met with the Columbia spouses in late April to talk about the upgraded systems and then the day afterward, he decided that the bellows heater needed to be put on STS-114 and not just the later missions.

So I have every confidence in him and his leadership and his team. I know that he cares deeply about the space program and a failure, the loss of the crew, is something that he would do anything to avoid.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, and if it came down to the point where the decision was that this is a fundamental design flaw issue, foam on the outside of the tank, the orbiter downstream of that tank, there is nothing that can be done to be certain that there won't be some sort of problem.

Is it time to say good-bye to the shuttle?

CLARK: Well, Miles, you know, I was a shuttle flight control team member in the surgeon's position and I have a profound respect and admiration for the shuttle. And like any aircraft you fly that eventually gets phased out, it leaves you with a kind of an empty feeling in your heart. So I will always have fond memories of the shuttle and being part of the shuttle team. And I know that we are near the end. It may be the beginning of the end of the shuttle or nearer the end of the end.

But I will always have profound respect for the shuttle's engineering capabilities and even though it has a fairly significant design flaw, that thermal protection system, it'll still be deep in my heart.

M. O'BRIEN: The decision to announce this grounding, literally the day after launch, do you think that was a wise thing to do? And a lot of this has to do with how much you tell the crew about the condition, the health of the vehicle, as well.

CLARK: Well, obviously since Columbia, there's a lot more insight into how much inspection they do on the vehicle. The thermal protection system on the shuttle is its Achilles' heel. And the debris shedding which they had anticipated very small amounts, very small size objects coming off, is now obviously not the case. So they're reassessing the whole process.

Prevention was the first step in the breaking the chain of preventing another Columbia type mishap and obviously they haven't totally prevented the debris shedding problem. So that has got to be, obviously, fundamentally addressed.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Dr. Jonathan Clark joining us from Washington.

Thank you for your time.

CLARK: Thank you, Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's check the headlines now.

Carol Costello joins us with that -- Carol, good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning.

Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news, the Irish Republican Army says it has formally ended its armed campaign. The IRA says it will give up its armed activities, but will not disband. The move is seen as crucial to reviving peace talks in Northern Ireland.

Investigators in Aruba are hoping to finish draining a pond today as they search for more evidence in the Natalee Holloway case. A lawyer for Holloway's family says the search was prompted by a witness. A Texas-based group is also apparently planning to return to Aruba with ground penetrating radar equipment to help look for clues.

The so-called millennium bomber has been sentenced to 22 years in prison. Ahmed Ressam was convicted of plotting to blow up the Los Angeles airport on the eve of the new millennium. Prosecutors say Ressam would have gotten a lighter sentence if he had continued to cooperate with police.

If you are hoping to prevent or cure a cold, you may want to scratch Echinacea off the list. Researchers say the herbal remedy does nothing to help fight the common cold. The study appears in today's edition of the "New England Journal of Medicine."

And officials in Mumbai, India say floodwaters are starting to recede after the strongest rains ever recorded in the country. More than 37 inches of rain fell in the span of 24 hours, triggering landslides. There are some reports that more than 500 people have died. Authorities say they're just beginning to survey the damage.

Let's head to the Forecast Center now and check in with Chad -- 37 inches of rain in one day.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That's hard to fathom.

COSTELLO: It really is.

MYERS: I mean I thought maybe they did a centimeter to inches error or something like that. Wow! That just -- that's just hard to even think about. Over an inch an hour for 24 hours nonstop.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, the military says U.S. troops could start withdrawing from Iraq as soon as next spring. But is that really a realistic goal?

S. O'BRIEN: Also ahead, Republican Senator Rick Santorum joins us live. We're going to talk about his new book and some of the controversial views he has in that book. That's ahead.

M. O'BRIEN: Plus, G.M.'s employee discount for all led to a huge boost in sales. We'll look at what that means if you're shopping for a new car. They're getting ready to phase that one out.

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Conservative Senator Rick Santorum has drawn fire for his views on working parents and home schooling, abortion and more. It's all in his book. It's called "It Takes A Family: Conservatism and the Common Good."

Pennsylvania Republican Senator Rick Santorum in Washington this morning.

Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us.

SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R-PA), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Before we get to your book...

SANTORUM: Thanks for having me on.

S. O'BRIEN: That's our pleasure -- let's start with the latest news. Of course, as you know, we've been talking about the Supreme Court nominee. And I'm, as you also know, the White House doesn't want to release some of the documents which could really, I think people feel, give some clear views into his viewpoints on certain cases.

What's wrong with that? Why not?

SANTORUM: Well, I mean he has a record as a judge. He has a record in litigation cases that he's argued and things that he's written. They'll have an opportunity to question him at the Judiciary Committee. What we're talking about here is the attorney-client privilege. And I think that...

S. O'BRIEN: But on cases that -- but cases, just an opinion on a case that's been decided? Why not get someone who wants to be a Supreme Court judge to weigh in on what he thought?

SANTORUM: Well, I think it's important to talk about his judicial philosophy. But to sort of hone in on specific cases that may be up for reconsideration or that subject matter may be up for reconsideration, I -- you know, look, you're not nominating someone or screening them for their ideology. You're screening them for their ability, their judicial temperament, their ethics, all those things. And candidly, political -- sort of the political questions should be off base, in my opinion.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, I guess that's your opinion.

All right, let's talk a little bit about the book, because I know that's something you've been talking a lot about. And as you well know, getting a lot of flak about some of the things you say. You've got a lot of controversial things in there. We'll just start with a couple.

First of all, what you say about working moms and working dads. Here's a quote from your book: "What happened in America so that mothers and fathers who leave their children in the care of someone else, or, worse yet, home alone after school between three and six in the afternoon, find themselves more affirmed by society. Here, we can thank the influence of radical feminism, one of the core philosophies of the village elders."

And I know when you talk about village, you're sort of making a comment back to Hillary Clinton's book, "It Takes A Village," and that's kind of the title of your book, too. But -- so you're -- you don't think working mothers should -- women should work? They should be home with their children? Is that the message from this?

SANTORUM: I don't think that's the message from that. I mean I think a plain reading of it doesn't say that at all. It says that, number one, that the society should be affirming of women who make the choice to sacrifice a credit reporting and stay home, as they are affirming of women who decide to go in the workplace. And I think we've gone from a position that I didn't agree with that, you know, women were discouraged from being in the workplace, to a point where now women are discouraged and actually not affirmed in staying home and making a sacrifice.

The whole point of the book is that, you know, we need to be more selfless. We need to be sacrificing more for our family and for our community, instead of just focusing on ourselves and what pleases us.

S. O'BRIEN: But you basically say that women think -- women have told you that they find it professionally more gratifying to have careers than stay home with their children, which, of course, you must know plenty of women who don't really have the choice, right?

SANTORUM: Well, again, I spend a very large section of the book talking about the work that I've done on welfare reform and, in fact, the place where I said that, you know, single moms who -- should go to work. And obviously that it's important for many couples to work because they have to make ends meet.

What I'm talking about here, and I think it's very clear from the book if you read the entire book, is that when there is an option out there, when there is a choice out there, that we have to consider, you know, what's best for the family. And I'm -- and that may be a man staying home.

But the bottom line is we have to consider not just, as our society keeps reinforcing, professional accomplishments. We have to consider obligations to our children and to our families.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit about the welfare reform issue, because you just raised it there. You wrote this, too: "The notion that college education is a cost-effective way to help poor, low skilled, unmarried mothers with high school diplomas or GEDs move up the economic ladder is just wrong."

A reading of that might be these poor women shouldn't bother to try to go to college and make themselves better, make their lives better, make their children's lives better.

SANTORUM: Well, what I'm talking -- what I was talking about there is welfare programs and what the work requirements should be. And I believe that -- and, in fact, I cite plenty of evidence to this fact -- that the best thing we can do for mothers, particularly low- skilled moms, is to find them a job and to get them work experience. Now, that doesn't mean that after they have work experience and while they're working, just like lots of other Americans, they don't go to school part-time, they don't upgraded their skills, they don't do things that are important to improve their economic skills.

But the idea that taking a mom off welfare and putting her in a four year college, that's been tried in some states and it has been a failure. It does not work. They do not do as well over the long-term as moms who are put back in the workplace and get work skills and learn to make ends meet.

S. O'BRIEN: Do you realize -- and I'm sure you've had this discussion with some of your fundraisers, because they have been quoted talking about your book, saying like now that you've written these things, you might have a little bit of a rough time. I think George Bochetto was quoted as saying, "The frankness with which he lays out his belief" -- he's talking about you -- "is sometimes difficult to deal with. It's going to be tougher and tougher to raise money."

Won't there be working mothers who disagree with what you're writing -- conservative working mothers who don't like your message and others who say forget this guy, even though they agree with you on some levels? And this is going to be problems in your reelection.

SANTORUM: I think that if anyone takes the time to read the book and read the context in what I put all of this in, and it's not just remarks that were lifted by the Democratic Senatorial Committee. Everything you've lifted are things that were put out before anybody even had access to the book, except for a couple of writers...

S. O'BRIEN: Well, these are all things that I actually underlined from your book, which is sitting right over on my desk right there, too.

SANTORUM: Well, that's great. I'm glad. But those are comments, candidly, Soledad, that everybody has used now for the past two weeks. The bottom...

S. O'BRIEN: Among the most controversial, I think it's fair to say.

SANTORUM: I don't think they're controversial. I think they're common sense. I mean do people really disagree that we shouldn't take responsibility for our children...

S. O'BRIEN: I don't think anyone...

SANTORUM: ... and make sacrifices for our kids?

S. O'BRIEN: I don't think necessarily anyone disagrees with that. I think the message that working mothers might take away might be different than the message that you would take away.

But you know what? We might want to continue this discussion, because obviously we have lots more to talk about. And it's a very thick book, too.

Thanks for coming on to talk with us.

SANTORUM: Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: We're out of time.

SANTORUM: Appreciate it.

S. O'BRIEN: Appreciate it.

Senator Rick Santorum joining us -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, buyer incentives translate into strong sales for American automakers. How long can they keep it up?

But first this. Some trivia for you. The curved dash Olds was the first car to be mass produced from 1901 to 1907. How much did the car originally cost? Was it A, $500; B, $650; C, $1000?

The answer after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: All right, before the break we told you that the curved dash Olds, the first car to be mass produced from 1901 to 1907, how much did it originally cost? The correct answer is B. I got it wrong. I thought it would be the more expensive one.

Today, a curved dash in running condition, $25,000 to $30,000.

G.M.'s employee discount offer sold so many cars that Ford and Chrysler had to match it. In fact, it seems to account for a turnaround in the industry that's been losing billions of dollars.

Csaba Csere, editor-in-chief for "Car and Driver" magazine, joins us now from Ann Arbor to talk about this program.

Csaba, obviously it was a success, except for one little thing. I don't know if they were making much money.

CSABA CSERE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "CAR AND DRIVER": Well, that's exactly right. There's two things you want to do in the car business. You want to sell a lot of cars and you want to make a little bit of profit on each one. And nobody really knows what effect the employee discount program has had on the profitability. But it sure has moved the machinery.

M. O'BRIEN: Why do you think it was such a hit?

CSERE: It was a hit for a couple of reasons. Number one, it's a really good price on the car. And number two, you could get that price without the ugly negotiation. You know, back in May, if you were looking at a car, like, say a Chevy Trailblazer SUV, it might have had a sticker price of $40,000 with a $5,000 or $6,000 rebate. That took you down to $35,000. And then maybe you could get another $3,000 or $4,000 off of it if you bargained and chiseled laboriously with the dealer. With the employee discount, you got that extra $4,000. In other words, you got the price right down to $31,000 right when you walked in the door. And that's what people like, not having to do that bargaining.

M. O'BRIEN: So we're left with the conclusion that either they have way too much profit built in in the first place or they've trimmed it beyond the bone.

Which?

CSERE: I think they've trimmed it beyond the bone or very close to it, because if you look at the financial statements of General Motors, as well as Ford, and they haven't been making very much money. The first quarter financial announcements were weak this year. They were lower than last year, which was not a very good year. So there isn't that much profit baked in.

I mean I guess if you sold the car at sticker price, there's some profit in there, but nobody's doing that in Detroit.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it seems as if consumers have really changed. The whole dynamic of buying a car has changed. The Internet has fueled a lot of this. People don't want to haggle, they just want a price. Give me the price, give me your best shot and let's be done with it.

Is that where it is right now?

CSERE: Well, I think that's true. Nobody likes the bargaining process and, you know, G.M. knows this better than everyone -- anyone, because they set up the Saturn division some years ago and one of the hallmarks of Saturn was the no bargaining on the price. The no dicker sticker, it was fixed. This was the deal. And customers have always liked that.

So, you know, what we're going to be seeing in the future here is, I think, the challenge for G.M. is a way to make a very good price without much bargaining, but hopefully a price that has a little profit in it for the car maker.

M. O'BRIEN: So, what is a consumer to do right now if you're in the market?

CSERE: Well, I think right now you have a wealth of options, because Ford and Chrysler have followed along with G.M. Any of the existing products are available at very, very good prices. And, also, this has applied downward pressure on the imports. The imports you still have to bargain with them, but the availability of the very good prices on the domestics means you can drive a harder bargain. What it means is it's a very good time to buy a car or a truck right now.

M. O'BRIEN: And so even when these deals go, these employee discount deals go, they'll be something else like it, you think?

CSERE: I think there will be because the history of the incentives is that once you find something that works, it's very hard to back away from that. And, you know, G.M.'s program with the employee discount expires on Monday. We'll see what they come up with to replace this. But I have a feeling they're going to come up with something relatively similar because it's worked so well.

The Ford and Chrysler programs may stay on a little longer because they started later than G.M. did and they still have a lot of 2005 models to clear out.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Csaba, you driving anything fun right now?

CSERE: Yes. We've got a brand new Mazda MX5 in the office, the latest version of the Miata. It's a wonderful piece of machinery.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Csaba, thank you.

He always, you know, he's got...

S. O'BRIEN: In the office.

M. O'BRIEN: He's got about 25 cars in the parking lot.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I know.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, he just can pick a car, you know, and just...

S. O'BRIEN: And I like the way he says in the office, which is a big old parking lot, basically.

M. O'BRIEN: Just, you know, it's a big, 25 cars. You know, which one do you want today?

All right, we'll be back with more in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN:

M. O'BRIEN:

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com