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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE

This Week at the United Nations

Aired July 29, 2005 - 23:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, BUSINESSMAN: United Nations people don't know. We have major slime in New York and much of that is in the form of contractors. Isn't that a sad thing to say?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a question of blackmailing some sectors of the membership, taking undue advantages from their vital needs. Enough is enough.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're racing at the United Nations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: Renovating your home can be quite stressful, especially if it turns out you're fixing up a place which the whole world calls home.

Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth.

As we have reported many times on the program, the United Nations headquarters building in New York City needs massive renovation. Work outside on a better security system is ongoing, but as our Liz Neisloss explains, there is a big fight now ongoing about the cost.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): United Nations headquarters in New York. Sleek 1950's architecture, a global diplomacy hub for 191 countries and, the United Nations says, a dangerous building needing more than $1 billion in repairs.

CHRISTOPHER BURNHAM, U.N. UNDER-SECY. GEN. FOR MGMT.: It's architecture, furniture, design, function and systems are charmingly retro. Unfortunately, it is also egregiously in violation of any reasonable level of efficiency and safety.

NEISLOSS: But some politicians in Washington find the $1.2 billion price tag outrageous. And they called in celebrity developer Donald Trump. He says he can do it for nearly half the price.

TRUMP: So this project at $1.2 billion will cost in my opinion $3 billion. In my opinion, however, in my real opinion, it should cost approximately $700 million.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 1945 the United Nations was created at the end of the Second World War.

NEISLOSS: For just around $10 you can get a tour of the United Nations.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This part in the middle symbolizes the creation --

NEISLOSS: The glories of U.N. history.

And this is what the public doesn't get to see. The United Nations calls it the dirty tour, a peepshow of sorts revealing a building in decay.

BURNHAM: It's riddled with asbestos, including dripping from the insides of my air condition unit just three feet from my desk. It lacks proper fire detectors, a sprinkler system. If one of the massive steam pipes, which now leak, were to blow there is a real potential that a large area surrounding the United Nations would be contaminated with asbestos.

NEISLOSS: Trump offers his services to Kofi Annan and gives this warning.

TRUMP: The United Nations people don't know. We have major slime in New York. And much of that is in the form of contractors. Isn't that a sad thing to say? And every one of them, I guarantee you, will find their way to the United Nations.

NEISLOSS: The United States has offered a loan to the United Nations at 5.5 percent.

CONGRESSMAN PETE SESSIONS (D-TX): It is just hard. I think this is the Big Apple, and if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere, but you better be good or they'll take you to the cleaners.

NEISLOSS: And you can be sure those cleaners don't do windows.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: I asked Kofi Annan about Trump's fears on slime muddying the United Nations rebuilding.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECY.-GEN.: I encouraged him to bid when we go out for bids and I hope he will, because if that is the case, he will definitely be able to come up with a competent and a good bid and probably at half the price. And if that is the case, I'm sure he will get the contract. And so I would encourage him to bid.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Donald Trump did not accept our offer to appear this week on the program, but believe it or not he's not the only person affected by the project.

Accepting our offer to appear, New York State Senator Liz Krueger, the United Nations is in her district, number 26, in Manhattan; New York City State Senator Serphin Maltese, from the borough where I grew up, Queens, in New York City, which one can see the United Nations from Queens. That's across the East River. And from the nonprofit foreign policy organization the United Nations Association of the U.S.A., Susanne Dimaggio, executive director of its global policy programs.

Senator Krueger, New York State senator, what do you think about Donald Trump saying slime will find its way into this U.N. rebuilding project?

LIZ KRUEGER (D), NEW YORK STATE SENATOR: Well, I think that Donald Trump has a lot of experience in building things in New York City and I have to say that I agree with Kofi Annan on this.

Let Mr. Trump bid on this. Let other people bid on this. We should absolutely go with the best builder with the lowest price. And I'm frankly fairly confident with all the involvement of federal agencies and the General Accounting Office watching this, that we will do the right thing here in New York City.

ROTH: Senator Maltese, why do you oppose in the New York state legislature, why do you oppose the U.N. cost of this project?

SERPHIN MALTESE (R), NEW YORK STATE SENATOR: Well, certainly, I oppose it for the same reasons that Dr. Coburn and Senator Sessions do, because of the fact that the cost seems preposterous, as Donald Trump has indicated. But I also oppose it because the United Nations has become a hot bed of anti-American, anti-Semitic, anti-Israel, anti-democracy. And many of my constituents and people, quite frankly, across the state and across the country, have emailed me since this fight began, indicating that the United Nations is a cesspool and that we should try to do something to clean it up.

ROTH: Suzanne Dimaggio, you represent the U.N. goals and explaining them to the United States public. I don't think you're going to agree with Senator Maltese of that.

SUZANNE DIMAGGIO, UNA-USA: Not at all. In fact, I suspect Senator Maltese's anti-United Nations stance is really not relevant in this discussion. This is a land use issue. His assertion that the United Nations is anti-democratic is absurd.

Just in the last couple of years alone, we have seen the United Nations advance democracy in Afghanistan, in East Timor and in Iraq and so forth. So that argument does not really hold water.

MALTESE: I think the fact of the matter is they were dragged kicking and screaming into all the countries that she talked about. They actively opposed intercession in Afghanistan. The reason that the United Nations was formed was humanitarian reasons, and they have blanked out on that in countries like the Sudan and others.

ROTH: You fought in the Korean War, right? This was a United Nations operation. One would think you would want to rebuild a building that the United States founded.

MALTESE: Yes, but the fact of the matter is I, like many young people in the 1940s, supported the United Nations. I was a stamp collector. Bought the stamps of the United Nations, like so many others. And then I watched as the General Assembly, as they added more and more countries that thought their mission in life was to destroy Israel and, quite frankly, hindered the United States in many of its patriotic endeavors, joined the General Assembly and spoke their minds.

ROTH: Senator Krueger?

KRUEGER: I have to disagree with my colleague in the State Senate. The fact is that the United States of America wants to be a member of the United Nations, recognizes that even when we disagree with individual countries it is still more important for this country to be a participant in the United Nations than to pull out, and it is extremely important for the United Nations to be here in New York.

And I asked the ambassador from Israel to the United Nations, does the country of Israel want the United Nations out of New York. And he said absolutely not. It is critical from an Israeli international perspective for the United Nations to still be here, in New York, in the United States, where the U.S. people can be there backing the concerns of Israel.

ROTH: Suzanne Dimaggio, why should there be a whole new U.N. reconstruction when Oil For Food, mismanagement, a place where the public feels there is not enough transparency? But, one can say that about the U.S. Congress also, but go ahead.

DIMAGGIO: The bottom line is that this is a safety and economic issue. The U.N. buildings -- it's a complex of seven buildings, over 2.5 million square feet and 17 acres. It doesn't even meet minimal New York City safety, fire, building codes, and that is a disgrace.

Also, there are 5,000 or more staff working in the U.N. buildings. We're talking about staff, diplomats and visitors, not to mention the New York City community surrounding the building.

ROTH: My lungs can testify to the bad air in there. But, Senator Maltese, President Bush supports this $1.2 billion loan.

MALTESE: President Bush supports the loan, but you've seen what has happened in the last few day, in the Congress and in the United States Senate. Senator Sessions, Dr. Coburn, have both indicated by large votes in the Senate, in their committees, that we want oversight waste.

The fact of the matter is, Donald Trump was called as a witness because the United Nations has indicated first a figure of $1.2 billion, then they indicated that it would probably be another $680 million for the transition building. Donald Trump, who knows the business, indicated very dramatically that it's a boondoggle, that somebody is going to make a heck of a lot of money on it.

DIMAGGIO: Richard, we who are in favor of this renovation project have no problems at all with more oversight. In fact, we welcome it.

We welcome the government agencies that have been involved. We welcome the state senators' interest in this and we hope it will continue. We hope there will be oversight to make sure this project is brought in as quickly as possible for the least amount of money.

ROTH: There doesn't seem to be any agreement to where the United Nations should move even for its, quote, "swing," temporary space while the new building is constructed. What's the latest?

KRUEGER: Well, it's my understanding that because the state legislature failed to move a bill over the last two years that would even just allow exploration of the possibilities of using a one acre playground in my district and build a swing space building, that they are not looking at alternatives because they feel they don't have the time to wait longer for Albany to act and that they've got to find alternatives.

ROTH: Why the hold up? Why don't you want that park next door?

MALTESE: Well, first of all, it's ironic that it's the Robert Moses Park, when Robert Moses first brought the United Nations to Queens in the World's Fairgrounds site.

But I think the reason is that, first of all, since this disagreement came up about moving the temporary site, we've now only heard about things like the fact that it's over the tunnel, over the midtown tunnel. We were not advised that until 2002. The fact of the matter is that the figure varies. They did not provide Dr. Coburn with the auditing figures with what they plan to do as for as renovations are concerned.

Donald Trump indicated very strongly that it cost a hell of a lot more money to build an initial building than it does for renovations.

DIMAGGIO: Now what the United Nations is doing is looking for commercial space to rent. They are looking in midtown Manhattan. They are looking in lower Manhattan. They are looking in Brooklyn and Queens, et cetera. So the Robert Moses Park issue is no longer an issue.

MALTESE: But it would be symbolic. Wouldn't it be symbolic that the peacemaking body of the world move into the World Trade Center, which is presently empty and looking for tenants in addition to America Express?

DIMAGGIO: It's my understanding that the majority of the constituents in Senator Krueger's area are in favor of the United Nations taking over that park and letting them use another space for the park. Is that correct, Senator?

KRUEGER: My district wants to make sure that we continue to expand open space in exchange, but they support the United Nations.

ROTH: They just don't want diplomatic illegal parking, is that the big issue?

KRUEGER: No one wants illegal parking, but the United Nations brings money into our city economy. It is a vital part of my district. My district is not opposed to the United Nations.

ROTH: People watching around the world, do they think New York wants them here, wants the United Nations here?

KRUEGER: Mayor Bloomberg has been very clear. He wants to keep the United Nations here.

ROTH: He just won't appear on our show.

Why do you say Kofi Annan should be reformed when, despite the management woes, there are a lot of other problems going on? This is a place where people can still talk and be at. Why? Because countries voted a certain way, which is their right. Why the objection?

MALTESE: Kofi Annan has an administration that is rife with corruption. Everybody he puts into administration positions of trust --

ROTH: But he'll be out of office, by term limits, when the cement is dry.

(CROSSTALK)

KRUEGER: The issue of the United Nations predates any individual head of the United Nations and will be with us post-any individual head of the U.N. We're talking about whether the United States of America thinks we should continue to participate in this international organization that I would argue has played a far more valuable role in the long term than any individual changes.

DIMAGGIO: And let's not forget how many U.S. interests the United Nations advances. I think it's also important to remember that we have a major world summit of leaders coming up in September.

ROTH: And we'll be talking about that on future shows. That's mid- September, September 14. Don't bring your cars into Manhattan then.

I would like to thank all of our guests. Here inside the studio with me, two New York State Senators, Liz Krueger, Democrat, and Republican Serphin Maltese. I have a little bit of a feeling there, because he's born in my borough, Queens. Worlds Fair, Shay Stadium, Robert Moses. Shall I go on? Oh, yes, and Susanne of UNA-USA. Thank you very much.

For the last word on this subject, with some regret, I give into the gods of good television and show you how the United States Senate subcommittee chair, Dr. Coburn, who led that U.N. building hearing. Here is how he concluded the appearance with one of his famous guests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CONGRESSMAN DR. TOM COBURN (RR) OK: Mr. Trump, if someone in your organization paid twice the amount for a project's cost. In two words or less, what would you say?

TRUMP: You're fired.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The issue of cleaning shantytowns is not unique to Zimbabwe. Even here, when Mayor Giuliani, when he cleaned Manhattan, did he first build alternative accommodations? He didn't. What do we do about it? It happened here in Manhattan. Why is it so special about Zimbabwe today?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: From Harare to Manhattan, a comparison on urban renewal made at the Security Council by Zimbabwe's U.N. ambassador. The ambassador says New York City changed neighborhoods for the better. Why can't a country do some housecleaning of its own?

Zimbabwe disputes the findings by a U.N. housing investigator who strongly criticized the government for the bulldozing of homes and shacks, unleashing, quote, "untold human suffering."

700,000 people made homeless. The United Nations is trying to determine if the demolition should stop. An official Zimbabwe newspaper this week said Zimbabwe leader Robert Mugabe claimed the U.N. envoy was pressured to write a negative report.

Anna Tibauuka denies this and now wants international assistance for those lives tossed into chaos.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNA TIBAUUKA, U.N. ENVOY TO ZIMBABWE: There is a concern and there is a cause and I appeal for international action, which is assistance for those who are suffering, as I have already elaborated in my report, and I was encouraged to see that people want to know more and to be able to assist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Ms. Tibauuka almost didn't get to give her briefing on her findings to the U.N. Security Council. You see, Zimbabwe is not an official item on the procedural agenda of the Security Council. Britain wanted to raise it, but China and other countries objected.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMYR JONES-PARRY, BRITISH AMB. TO U.N.: I hope the overall conclusion out of this is that we rally around, that lessons are learned, so that operation ceases, and that the sensible conclusions of Dr. Tibauuka are actually put into affect. That's what we would like to see.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: In another bad news zone of Africa, Darfur, Sudan. The U.N.'s High Commissioner of Human Rights, Louise Arbour, told the Security Council Friday gang rapes in the region go unpunished. The acts are committed, she says, by soldiers and police, and officials are more willing to arrest the victims than the rapists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUISE ARBOUR, UN. HIGH COMMISSIONER OF HUMAN RIGHTS: We see extremely, extremely poor results in the investigation and successful prosecution of perpetrators of very serious sexual violence. Rape, gang rapes, continue to be very prevalent by all accounts. And the deficit, I think, in the government ranges from, first, an extremely unreceptive attitude towards even recognizing the magnitude of the problem.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Racing at the United Nations. And Cool Conductor came out running in the lead, and there, as expected, goes Shake the Bank.

ROTH (voice-over): Every year they run a horserace called the United Nations Stakes at Monmouth Race Track in New Jersey. And considering there is another Oil For Food investigation report coming out as soon as next Friday, listen to the names of the horses who finished first and third, that is after Shake the Bank lost the lead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- Better Talk Now is exploding on the rail! Better Talk Now has come through on the inside, and he has won the United Nations. Better Talk Now. He won it by a half-leg. Silver Foot was second. It's close for third between Request for Parol and Cool Conductor.

ROTH: The winner, Benon Sevan, I mean Better Talk Now, was not brought to U.N. headquarters. This is an unidentified horse, part of additional security this past Thursday. But inside the United Nations there is a lot of horse trading going on, jockeying for seats on the U.N. Security Council.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

As Liz Neisloss explains, this is a race that never seems to end.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADLAI STEVENSON, FMR. U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: I am prepared to wait for my answer until hell freezes over if that's your decision.

COLIN POWELL, FMR. U.S. SECY. OF STATE: Saddam Hussein has not verifiably accounted for even one teaspoon full of this deadly material.

NEISLOSS (voice-over): It's the site of many fateful meetings in recent history. Decisions on war and peace played out at the famous horseshoe table. But this table only seats 15 and many more U.N. members want a place. No action for seats here. Changing history takes tough diplomatic work.

The victors of World War II -- the United States, Russia, China, the United Kingdom and France -- have special status in the Security Council as permanent members and sole holders of the veto. The other ten nonpermanent members have two-year terms and no veto power.

MANMOHAN SINGH, INDIAN PRIME MIN.: We are convinced that India can significantly contribute to U.N. decision-making and capabilities.

KENZO OSHIMA, JAPANESE PRIME MIN.: Japan firmly believes that it has a significant role to play in the maintenance of international peace and security.

NEISLOSS: Enter the so-called Group of Four Nations -- Japan, Germany, India, Brazil -- and some heavy-duty global lobbying. Their goal, round out the famed table with seats for them. Their proposal, expand the Council to 25. They would each get permanent seats with two permanent seats for African countries. They would add four more nonpermanent seats.

To sweeten their offer, the four say they're willing to forego veto power for at least 15 years.

The four are now intensely negotiating for needed support from this group. African nations have their own plan. In their vision, the new permanent members should get the veto. A third rival plan adds only nonpermanent seats. Countries including Pakistan, Italy and South Korea all have their own reasons for not granting the so-called Group of Four permanent seats.

Then there is the United States. So far, Washington favors a permanent seat for Japan, but wants veto power kept to the original club of five. China says the time is not right for change and doesn't want a seat for Japan.

ANNAN: We are the ones who go around the world lecturing everybody about democracy. I think it's about time we apply it to ourselves and ensure that there is effective representation.

NEISLOSS: But a bigger Council may not mean better, may not be any faster at stopping wars or preventing genocide.

(on camera): Expansion of the Security Council would require the support of at least 2/3 of the 191 members in the United Nations. But any attempt to reshape the Council could end right at this table, where the United States or China could use their veto.

Liz Neisloss, CNN, United Nations.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Thanks, Liz.

This week, one of the racers, Italy, really livened up proceedings in the usually staid General Assembly Hall. Ambassador Marcello Spatafora alleged one of four countries, either Japan, India, Germany or Brazil, threatened to end a $450,000 development project in an unnamed country which was supporting another group of countries mentioned by Liz.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARCELLO SPATAFORA, ITALIAN AMB. TO U.N.: I will say it again. Enough is enough. After the Oil For Food scandal, the organization, it is to say all of us, member states as well as those who have institutional responsibilities in the organization, cannot afford the luxury of another scandal, much more serious and destabilizing than the Oil For Food. Because here it is not a question of pocking money. It is a question of ethics and moral values. It is a question of blackmailing some sectors of the membership, taking undue advantages from their vital needs. Enough is enough.

NOBUTAKA MACHIMURA, JAPANESE FOREIGN MIN. (through translator): Well, I would have to say this type of remark is just typical of what I would characterize as negative campaigning, and I refuse to react to each and every such comment made.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Germany said Italy's speech was not the proper tone for the General Assembly Hall. A London meeting this week of foreign ministers didn't achieve much progress, Egypt and Algeria objecting to compromise offers by Nigeria.

They may get to build a new U.N. headquarters, but how many chairs will there be in the end for the new Security Council?

That's DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth, in New York, thanks for watching.

END

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