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CNN Live At Daybreak

Bomber Hunt; More Daylight; Shuttle Program Grounded

Aired July 29, 2005 - 05:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: It is Friday, July 29. Happy Friday to you.
The search for a London bombing suspect. Was there a missed opportunity? From rural Oregon to South Africa, a suspected terrorist one step ahead of authorities. Could his alleged part in the London bombings have been prevented?

Plus, adding four extra weeks of Daylight Saving Time, how's that going to play down on a farm?

And flying high and feeling low. NASA takes a microscope to those shuttle photos and finds more potential problems.

ANNOUNCER: From the Time Warner Center in New York, this is DAYBREAK with Carol Costello and Chad Myers.

COSTELLO: Good morning to you. We'll have more on the London terror probe in just a moment.

Also ahead, in a world of surplus, the face of hunger. We'll take you to Niger, where millions of people are facing famine and starvation. Find out what you can do straight ahead.

And your health. New research casts doubts on the healing power of echinacea.

But first, "Now in the News."

A major break with the White House and Christian conservatives over stem cell policy. Today's "New York Times" reports Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist his support this morning for providing more money for embryonic stem cell research.

Two U.S. Marines are killed in a city west of Baghdad. The military says the two came under small arms fire and a rocket- propelled grenade attack. They belonged to Regimental Combat Team 2 of the 2nd Marine Division.

An historic move by the Irish Republican Army. It's ending a decades-long arms struggle against the British government. The leadership has ordered militia members to dump their arms.

To the forecast center and Chad.

How's your Friday? CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning. Yes, it doesn't feel too bad outside today, huh?

COSTELLO: No.

MYERS: Not like walking into a wall of water like you've been.

COSTELLO: No.

MYERS: Yes. It's all down here.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: All right. Thank you, Chad.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: In the London terror probe, one down, three to go. The major focus of police now is finding the three other men they believe planted explosives last week on London's trains and a bus.

Live now to our Mallika Kapur at Scotland Yard in London.

Good morning.

MALLIKA KAPUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.

You're absolutely right, the focus of the investigation here in Britain very much on finding the three men police believe could have been responsible for attempting to explode bombs on London's mass transit system on July the 21st. There were four men they were looking for. They had managed to nab one of those men.

They arrested Yasin Hassan Omar, a 24-year-old, in Birmingham on Wednesday in a very dramatic predawn raid. He is being held here in central London at the very high security center, the Paddington Green Police Station, where authorities are continuing to question him. But the focus very much now on finding the other three men, his -- Yasin Hassan Omar's accomplices, who tried to explode bombs on two more subway underground railway lines on July the 21st and one double- decker bus.

Police have only released the identity of one of these men they are looking for. He is said to be Muktar Said Ibrahim, who is believed to have been responsible for trying to detonate a bomb on the number 26 bus in the Hackney area of London.

We have seen photographs of the other two suspects, and police urgently appealing to the public to call in if they have any information on these men, any sightings. Police definitely asking the public to be very vigilant and to call in with any information about these men, because just yesterday we heard from the Metropolitan Police commissioner, Ian Blair, and he did say while he's confident that they will get to these suspected terrorists, he did remind the public that while they remain at large they do pose a threat. They have access to explosives, and he warned that they could strike again at any time -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Mallika, I also wanted to ask you about these pictures that were released of the bombs themselves. ABC News was the first to release these pictures that has British investigators quite upset. Tell us why.

KAPUR: British investigators definitely upset about these pictures being made public. While they haven't made it clear who they think was responsible for the leak, one thing they have made clear is that they are very upset that these pictures, which were supposed to remain confidential, have been leaked.

They're saying now that the pictures have been leaked, it could jeopardize the ongoing investigation here in Britain, and it could also make an already nervous public even more jittery. And, of course, they haven't really said where the leak came from, but a lot of experts and a lot of authorities here are pointing their fingers across the pond, at the United States.

But the reason, the main reason they're upset is because, as I said, it could hurt the ongoing investigation, and it could really make the public a little bit more nervous. And it has been the case. We've spoken to a few people about their reaction to the picture.

A lot of people are saying, "Well, we didn't really need to see these pictures because now we're just going to be a little bit more nervous to know what we're up against if the bombers do strike again." At the same time, a few people saying, "Well, it's our right to know what we're up against," and they don't have a problem with the pictures being published at all -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Yes. I'm just reading a statement from ABC News that was in "The New York Times." It says -- it's quoting a Mr. Banner (ph). He says, "We checked with other police sources here and in London, checked with our own security consultants before making a decision to go forward. We thought it was newsworthy."

Although, interestingly enough, ABC's report on the BBC, they did not show those images.

KAPUR: Well, the images had been splashed across the papers here in Britain. It was first released in the United States by ABC, but very quickly picked up by the British press here. In fact, being picked up by the press around the world.

So there has been quite a bit of controversy about whether these pictures should have been made public or not. But, as I said earlier, here in Britain amongst the public, mixed reaction to whether the pictures -- whether it was right to publish the pictures. Authorities saying that the pictures should have remained confidential, the public a little bit more mixed.

Some of them saying they have a right to see these pictures. Others a little bit more nervous because of them.

COSTELLO: Mallika Kapur live in London this morning. The search for those suspects in London's transit bombings has extended to the African nation of Zambia. Authorities say a British terror suspect who was in custody in Zambia may have ties to the 7/7 bombers. And as CNN's Kelli Arena reports, it appears he could have been caught before the attacks happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While he is now in custody in Zambia, was there a missed opportunity to arrest Haroon Rashid Aswat weeks ago, before the London bombings, bombings in which police believe Aswat may have played a role?

It all started here in Bly, Oregon, where U.S. officials say Aswat allegedly scouted this ranch for use as a jihad training camp, met with potential recruits, and even conducted firearms training.

Fast forward to early this summer. Sources tell CNN Aswat was traced to South Africa. The U.S. wanted to capture him and bring him back to New York, but multiple U.S. sources with knowledge of the case say British authorities balked, because Aswat is a British citizen. While the two sides were negotiating, Aswat slipped away.

PAT D'AMURO, FORMER FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, NEW YORK: We have an extradition treaty with the U.K., and they do become concerned when you are talking about rendering a citizen back to any particular country.

ARENA: Sources say there is an arrest warrant for Aswat under seal in New York. It's unclear whether U.S. investigators will get a chance to question him, and counterterrorism experts say it's also not clear whether having him in custody before the bombings would have changed anything.

D'AMURO: We don't know if this individual, one, is involved, two, if he was involved, would he have cooperated and provided that information, which might have led to stopping a terrorist attack.

ARENA: Officials say there are very high-level negotiations under way with Zambia over who will get access to Aswat and when.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: After years of stalemates, the Senate is expected to follow the House and pass a mammoth energy bill today. But don't expect to see gas prices going down anytime soon or see our dependence on imported oil lessen. The bill does give $14.5 billion in tax breaks and incentives to oil and energy companies. And as for you, the good old consumer, you'll get a tax credit if you buy fuel cell- powered vehicles or hybrid cars, and you'll get a tax break for using energy efficient appliances.

The bill also expands Daylight Saving Time by one month. CNN's Chris Huntington shows us how that may affect you or your neighbors. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's dawn at the Dean Crest Dairy Farm in Blairstown, New Jersey. That's just before 6:00 a.m. Eastern Daylight Time.

Burt Dean's been working for half an hour, and so is their son Bill. Their schedule is set by their dairy cows. Clock time is an afterthought. So they aren't exactly bowled over by the prospect of an extra four weeks of Daylight Saving Time.

BURT DEAN, DEAN CREST DAIRY FARM: I don't think it will make that much difference, really.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn't matter of it's light out or dark out, because the cows have to be milked every 24 hours.

HUNTINGTON (on camera): In the past, farmers opposed daylight saving because it put their sun-driven schedules even more out of sync with everyone else's. These days, modern farmers simply shrug at the notion of extended daylight hours and say that that is unlikely to help them conserve energy.

(voice-over): But Dean's farm, like most, is energy-intensive, no matter what time it is. In fact, long summer days require more power to keep the cows and the milk cool. So extending daylight hours is unlikely to help.

The U.S. airline industry is in a flap, saying the change would put them out of sync with international schedules, create chaos, cost U.S. carriers $150 million a year, and disrupt half a million passengers.

JAMES C. MAY, AIR TRANSPORT ASSOCIATION: They're either going to have sit around airports an hour longer than they are used to sitting around, or they are going to miss their connections altogether.

HUNTINGTON: The most serious objection to extended daylight saving come from parents. The National PTA is confused that four an extra four weeks a year children would wait even longer in the dark for their morning school buses.

The rationale for daylight saving is that it saves energy. Daylight time was first adopted during World War I, primarily to save coal, and again during World War II to save fuel. It was extended in 1974 and '75 to save oil.

Members of Congress pushing the new extension cite a 1975 government study that found extending daylight saving cut U.S. energy consumption by about one percent. That would now be about 200,000 barrels of oil a day based on Energy Department statistics.

David Preraur, who worked on that study, is not so sure its 30- year-old conclusions still hold.

DAVID PRERAUR, AUTHOR, "SIEZE THE DAYLIGHT": That study was comprehensive at the time, and it did find the saving of one percent in energy. And it did not identify any increase in travel. However, of course things may well have changed.

HUNTINGTON: Things have changed. The Department of Energy does not stand by that study and is expected to conduct a new one.

There is one benefit that would definitely come from extending daylight saving, an extra hour of daylight on Halloween. So children can look forward to trick or treating until the cows come home.

Chris Huntington, CNN, Blairstown, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Oh, I liked the ending to that story. Didn't you, Chad?

MYERS: Yes. I never liked trick or treating during the daylight hours, though. I always wanted to trick or treat at night.

COSTELLO: Oh, but it's safer in daylight hours. You know that.

MYERS: Well, of course it is. But it's not as much fun.

COSTELLO: You know...

MYERS: It sounds like everybody that wakes up early doesn't want Daylight Saving Time. Everybody that kind of sleeps in doesn't really know that the sun came up anyway, you know?

COSTELLO: That's true. That's true.

I'm just struggling to understand why Daylight Saving Time would help us save energy, as in oil or gas.

MYERS: Because theoretically, when this thing was first introduced, people weren't waking up as early as they do now. So they would turn the lights on between 5:00 and 6:00 in their homes to get ready, or 6:00 and 7:00. But then, if the daylight goes all the way to 8:00, instead of, let's say, 7:00, you don't have to turn your lights on as early at night because the light is still coming in your home.

But I'll tell you what, I go to bed before it gets dark, and I think a lot of people do nowadays, especially in the summertime. So...

COSTELLO: Definitely so. But I'm still struggling with that. Like so what? And they're basing all of this on a 30-year-old study, which is another concern.

MYERS: Sure.

COSTELLO: And, of course, we want to know what you think. And of course that brings us to our DAYBREAK e-mail question.

MYERS: Well, I knew you were getting somewhere with this, Carol.

COSTELLO: Oh, yes.

MYERS: Daylight Saving Time change, does it even matter to you, adding another month to this thing? DAYBREAK@CNN.com. Give us your reasons and your answers there -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right. DAYBREAK@CNN.com. Thank you, Chad.

In news "Across America" this morning, police in Fontana, California, say a lie told by this man led to a false Amber Alert. Authorities say Trevon Smith (ph) made up a story that his 4-year-old niece was in his car when it was stolen. Motive? He allegedly hoped the car would be recovered more quickly. Smith has been arrested for investigation of making a false police report.

In Ohio, two teenage boys have now been charged with arson. Police say they set fire to several American flags and placed them under a car. It happened at a home where a family had just buried a soldier killed in the Iraq war. The flags had been placed in the yard to honor Army Private 1st Class Tim Hines.

People living near an oil refinery in Texas are being asked to stay inside following an unexplained explosion. No one was injured in the blast at the British Petroleum plant. Fifteen people died after a larger explosion rocked the plant in March.

Still to come on DAYBREAK, astronauts on the space shuttle are busy this morning. They're restocking the International Space Station.

Plus...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF KOINANGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is not a refugee camp in Darfur. Instead, it's yet another looming crisis in yet another African country, the west African nation of Niger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Our Jeff Koinange is in Niger, where things are bad. And without massive help, they're about to get much worse.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Friday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The international markets all looking brighter this morning. Tokyo's Nikkei higher by 41 points. The London FTSE up by 28. The German DAX up by 20.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 5:17 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

Searchers will be back on the riverbanks today to look for a toddler thrown from a car during a crash in Indiana. A witness who called 911 after the accident says the dispatcher thought her call was a prank.

Two Denny's employees in Idaho each got $4,000 checks for their share of reward money. They're the ones who recognized 8-year-old Shasta Groene and called 911. They also stalled the suspected kidnapper until police arrived.

In money news, there's now an incentive to try on clothes. The GAP is offering a free i-Tunes download when you try on one of their new pairs of jeans. The promotion runs from August 8 through the 31st.

In culture, some of John Lennon's stuff pulled in big money at an auction last night. A handwritten lyric from the song "All You Need is Love" went for a record $1 million. A military jacket that may have inspired the "Sergeant Peppers" uniforms went for more than $175,000.

In sports, Larry Brown will get around $8 million a year as the new head coach of the New York Knicks. Brown led the Detroit Pistons to two straight NBA finals and hopes to bring New York its first title since 1973.

So all those rumors in Detroit were true, Chad.

MYERS: Well, we knew he was leaving, but that is a nice paycheck for him, and he deserves it. He's a great coach. Maybe he can put those guys together. That would be awesome for New York City.

And good morning, everybody.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Chad, are you finished? I'm sorry. I was listening because we're going to go to hopefully a live shot of the shuttle...

MYERS: Oh, cool.

COSTELLO: ... way up in space, to get a look at what the astronauts are working on up there. There you can see inside. Actually, they're getting ready for their space walk. So -- it's so fascinating, isn't it?

MYERS: It really is.

COSTELLO: Yes.

MYERS: And then look at them floating around in there.

COSTELLO: It looks like they're working on the space station robot arm. And that thing is able to crawl over outside the International Space Station like an inchworm. And that would mean the arm is moving from its current position, which would be away from the shuttle, to a science module called Destiny, so, of course, they could do those space walks. So... MYERS: We're going to have Miles O'Brien, our space cadet -- I mean, our space expert, coming up a little bit later.

COSTELLO: Yes, we are. In fact, we're having -- we have Miles O'Brien coming up right now.

MYERS: Oh, there he is!

COSTELLO: Let's get to it. Miles O'Brien has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After years of hard work and months of anticipation, the thrill of the launch lasted little longer than the plume Discovery left behind.

MICHAEL CABBAGE, SPACE EDITOR, "ORLANDO SENTINEL": I think it's hard to overstate just how big of a disappointment this is to NASA.

O'BRIEN: There it was again, two minutes six seconds after liftoff, a big piece of foam peeling away, missing the orbiter, thankfully, but hitting the NASA family right in the gut.

DR. JONATHAN CLARK, WIDOWER OF LAUREL CLARK: When I heard about it last night I thought, "Wow."

O'BRIEN: NASA flight surgeon John Clark lost his wife Laurel onboard Columbia on February 1, 2003. Sixteen days before, when she and her crewmates launched to space, a big piece of foam pierced the heat shield, and Columbia was unable to withstand the blistering heat of reentry.

CLARK: The thermal protection system in the shuttle is its Achilles' heel. And the debris shedding which they had anticipated very small amounts, very small sized objects coming off, is now obviously not the case. So they're reassessing the whole -- the whole process.

O'BRIEN: Reassessment indeed.

JOHN SHANNON, FLIGHT OPERATIONS MANAGER: We're wrong, and we missed something. And we have to figure out what it was and go fix it. Whether that's just changing techniques or redesign, we don't know.

O'BRIEN: The errant piece fell from a long wedge-shaped section of the tank called the PAL ramp. Engineers felt it might be a source of large foam debris, but they were not certain because they've never had pictures like these before.

The unprecedented harvest of images has also yielded this: 20 seconds after the large piece of foam fell, a much smaller piece broke free from the same area. Engineers say it likely hit Discovery's wing.

WAYNE HALE, SHUTTLE DEPUTY PROGRAM MANAGER: This is the closest to a potential here that we have out of all the data we got. This was a very small piece. It wasn't the big piece that came off.

O'BRIEN: Engineers had long suspected the so-called PAL ramp might be a source of debris, but the fix was not considered a high priority.

MICHAEL GRIFFIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: Well, there are a lot of areas on the shuttle where we know ultimately improvement should be had. We were not able to fix all of those, and, frankly, we will never be able to fix all of those.

O'BRIEN: Fortunately, Discovery appears only slightly worse for the wear. Pictures taken by the space station crew during the shuttle-salt (ph) approach to the docking revealed only minor damage. So it appears for now the crew and NASA have dodged a few bullets. But a big question awaits when they return: how long, if ever, before the fleet will fly again?

NASA can only do so much with the shuttle design, flawed as it is. Frangible insulation on the outside, a fragile spacecraft downstream. Clearly, there won't be any shuttle launches anytime soon, and many wonder if Discovery's mission might be the last.

CLARK: Like any aircraft you fly that eventually gets phased out, it leaves you with a kind of an empty feeling in your heart. So I will always have fond memories of the shuttle and being part of the shuttle team. And I know that we are near the end.

O'BRIEN (on camera): NASA says it is sticking to its plan to fly the shuttle fleet until 2010. That had meant about 15 missions. Taking time yet again to redesign the external fuel tank will eat away at those flights, as well as the morale of the shuttle team.

Miles O'Brien, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: This news just into CNN. You're looking at Baltimore's inner harbor. This is the Lady Baltimore. This is a cruise ship that takes passengers up and down the inner harbor.

You can see that there -- well, maybe you can't see, but you can see that there are ladders there, certainly. And fire crews are working on board this ship because apparently there was a fire on board, some sort of an electrical problem that's caused major damage to the ship. And they're still trying to sort things out there in Baltimore.

When we get more information, of course we'll pass it along to you. But it's a very popular cruise ship in Baltimore, so -- anyway, we'll keep you posted.

The Lady Baltimore, have you ever taken a cruise on the Lady Baltimore?

MYERS: I have been to inner harbor, I have not been on that cruise ship, no.

COSTELLO: I haven't either, but I -- you know, I lived in Baltimore a long time.

MYERS: Of course.

COSTELLO: And, you know, you see it going up and down a lot.

Anyway, we have to lighten the mood right now because, after all, it is Friday.

MYERS: Ah, good. "Late Night Laughs."

COSTELLO: "Late Night Laughs" time.

This week, a federal judge, you know, ordered O.J. Simpson to pay $25,000 in damages for pirating satellite television signals.

MYERS: That's nice.

COSTELLO: Here's Jay Leno and David Letterman's take on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAY LENO, "THE TONIGHT SHOW": In Florida, a judge has found O.J. Simpson guilty of satellite TV and ordered him to pay DirecTV $25,000 in back charges. Well, we are finally getting tough on celebrities in this country.

(LAUGHTER)

LENO: Were you shocked? I mean, I knew he was a murderer. I didn't know he was a thief.

(APPLAUSE)

LENO: Just hope this one incident doesn't ruin O.J.'s reputation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN, "THE LATE SHOW": Remember Saddam Hussein, a couple of years ago they found him -- he was in a spider hole enjoying himself, minding his own business in a spider hole and they yanked him right out of there? Well, he's going on trial now pretty soon. Going on trial.

Here are the charges, the official charges against Saddam Hussein: attacking Iran, invading Kuwait, and stealing satellite TV. True story.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP) COSTELLO: So pathetic, isn't it?

MYERS: Kind of.

COSTELLO: Kind of?

MYERS: That that was the funniest thing they could think of.

COSTELLO: I know. It's pretty weak this morning, but hey, we tried.

MYERS: That's right.

COSTELLO: Here's what's all new in the next half-hour of DAYBREAK...

Putting a face to the famine in Africa. CNN's Jeff Koinange points out the looming crisis in the west African nation of Niger.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KOINANGE (voice-over): In the tiny village of Maradi, in the country's southeast, hungry mothers bring their equally hungry and malnourished children to refugee camps, hoping to get some relief, relief that's clearly not coming fast enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And Jeff tells us it's a crisis that could have been prevented.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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