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CNN Live At Daybreak

Death of King Fahd; Deadline Looms

Aired August 01, 2005 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you.
Coming up in the next 30 minutes, we'll bring you much more on the life, death and legacy of Saudi Arabia's King Fahd.

And will a draft of Iraq's constitution be ready in just 15 days? We'll take you live to Baghdad for the latest on that.

But first, "Now in the News."

About an hour ago, two shuttle astronauts headed out for a walk. They've got a big job to do, replacing a gyroscope that helps steer the international space station. The device is one of four. It's the size of a washing machine and weighs more than 600 pounds. Not right now, of course, because it's weightless up there.

A deadline from Iran with its nuclear program at stake, the European Union has about three more hours to provide economic and political incentives or Iran says it will resume uranium conversion.

Sudan's vice president has died in a plane crash. This morning, Sudan TV confirms the death of John Garang whose aircraft went down in bad weather last night. The former rebel leader took office after a long civil war.

More rain just adds misery in Mumbai, India. More than 1,000 people have died in flooding and mudslides in and around the city which used to be known as Bombay.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes.

COSTELLO: Morning -- Chad.

MYERS: Good morning, Carol.

That same region had that -- remember we talked of 37 inches in 24 hours and then it all kind of washed downhill. Yes, it was that monsoon, which means shift of the wind from blowing offshore to blowing onshore. And when it came from the ocean, the Indian Ocean, right onshore, it moved up the mountains and made the rain, like it does every year. But, boy, that was sure an event there.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Thank you -- Chad.

MYERS: You're welcome. COSTELLO: In the land of Muhammad, sand dunes, swords and rich black oil there is a new ruler this morning. With the death of Saudi Arabia's King Fahd, his half-brother, the former Crown Prince Abdullah, now becomes ruler of the Kingdom.

Our David Ensor tells us about the legacy of King Fahd.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His name said it all, Fahd bin Abdul Aziz al-Saud, one of nearly four dozen sons of the founder of modern Saudi Arabia. Fahd was the fifth to rule a desert kingdom delicately balanced between the strong traditions of the past and the necessary transition to the future.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the shuttle has cleared the tower.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I hope to see you soon.

ENSOR: Fahd was both ruler of 24 million people in a deeply conservative society and custodian of the two most holy shrines of Islam. In later years, the man once known as a playboy prince preferred the latter title.

In 22 years on the throne, Fahd's control of a quarter of the world's petroleum reserves made him both a billionaire and a powerful player on the world political stage. He shared an American president's desire to fight communism by secretly funding the anticommunist contras of Nicaragua and the Mujahideen of Afghanistan against the Soviets.

RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES: And I expressed pleasure that he was doing that.

ENSOR: During the nearly decade long Iran-Iraq War, King Fahd allowed American planes to monitor the battlefields while siding with his brother Arabs in Baghdad.

But Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait changed all that by threatening Saudi security. The United States asked the king to let a multinational military force base itself in Saudi Arabia to force Iraqi withdrawal from Kuwait.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Basically he wanted to make sure that we wouldn't turnaround and run if the going got tough. That was his fundamental concern.

ENSOR: It was, by all accounts, a difficult decision, but he eventually invited the troops in.

KING FAHD, SAUDI ARABIA: For a temporary period, only as would leave Saudi Arabia when the Saudi government feels that is necessary.

ENSOR: Hours after the shooting started in January 1991, Saddam Hussein was denouncing his neighbor by radio.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, IRAQI LEADER (through translator): King Fahd will rot in hell. He is a treacherous criminal King Fahd.

ENSOR: The short war that followed left physical, social and economic scars on Fahd's kingdom. The cost of the coalition and swings in the selling price of the country's principal export forced a king, who had once cried publicly over balancing the budget, to cut back public spending because there wasn't enough income.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That caused serious strains both in the world as a whole and dramatic changes in the internal situation within Saudi Arabia. I think that was the primary economic problem he had.

ENSOR: King Fahd suffered a stroke in 1995, leaving him mostly inactive, but he still received selected visitors.

In the last years of Fahd's reign, the Kingdom's close relationship with the United States has been tested. The fact that 15 of the 19 terrorists on September 11, 2001 were Saudis, as was their leader, Saudi exile Osama bin Laden, raised questions in Washington about how much of an ally Saudi Arabia really was. But the Kingdom suffered its own attacks by al Qaeda and tightened up its security efforts against the fundamentalist terror group.

In March of 2002, U.S. Vice President Dick Cheney met briefly with King Fahd and other leaders from the region to drum up support for a possible offensive against Iraq. The attempt at forging a coalition was not successful. After the war, the king ordered $80 million in emergency assistance to be given to Iraq.

Throughout his later years following his stroke, Fahd suffered from a number of other physical ailments, including diabetes and arthritis. With his death, the throne passes to Fahd's half-brother, Crown Prince Abdullah, yet another son of Abdul Aziz al-Saud, the founder of modern Saudi Arabia.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Still on schedule, the Iraqis are pledging, for now, to stick to the August 15 deadline to finish drafting their constitution. In the meantime, pressure from the United States is growing.

So let's head straight to Baghdad and check in with CNN's Aneesh Raman.

Good morning -- Aneesh.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Carol, good morning.

That word coming from the head of Iraq's constitutional committee speaking to the country's National Assembly a short time ago that they will, in fact, meet the August 15 deadline. There had been some talk over the weekend of postponing that deadline upwards of a month in order to hash out some of these issues. They had to decide by today, and now the pressure, it seems, is on. If they chose not to do any extension, they have to have this document written by August 15, otherwise this transitional government effectively gets dissolved, a new transitional government is elected in mid-December to then write the constitution.

Now, Carol, all along people have told us that some 75 percent of this document is resolved, there's only 25 percent left, but that 25 percent is of huge importance. It includes key issues. The role of Islam, will it be a source or the only source of Iraqi law? That, of course, includes women's rights and civil liberties under Sharia Law or under a secular constitution.

Also at issue, the notion of federalism. How independent will the provinces of Iraq be? Specific to that is oil revenue. The areas that have oil, will they keep all the money or does it go to the central bank to then be dispensed throughout the country?

So all of these issues are up for discussion.

The reason they want to resolve as much as they can as early as they can is that this will, Carol, go to a public referendum in mid- October. The Iraqi people will decide, so they don't want to leave anything out for the referendum to be rejected -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Aneesh Raman live in Baghdad this morning.

"A U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq would not end terrorist attacks there," that's what Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld says in an article for today's "Financial Times" newspaper. He says "extremists have been killing people around the world for at least 20 years, long before U.S. troops went into Afghanistan and Iraq." He goes on to say -- and I quote -- "The extremists do not seek a negotiated settlement with the west....They want America and Britain and other coalition allies to surrender our principles."

Still to come on DAYBREAK, the president still wants John Bolton to be confirmed as U.N. Ambassador, but he might have to bypass Congress. We'll take a look.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: You're looking at live pictures from Rome. These are reporters gathered around. They're awaiting a news conference from Rome's Antiterrorism Police Chief Carlo Di Stefano. I apologize for the mispronunciation of that name. When he begins speaking, we're going to monitor what he says. If he says anything that relates to the London terror bombings or relates to the United States, of course we'll pass it along to you. But this news conference is supposed to start momentarily.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 5:43 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

Saudi Arabia has a new ruler this morning, King Fahd has died. His funeral will be held tomorrow. The former Crown Prince Abdullah, Fahd's half-brother, has been named ruler of the desert Kingdom.

Former President Jimmy Carter had some harsh words for the Southern Baptist Convention leadership. He says convention leaders misuse scripture to deny women an opportunity to serve as ministers.

In money news, one of the biggest names in dieting is filing for bankruptcy. Get this, Atkins Nutritionals, which promoted the low carb Atkins Diet, will have a Chapter 11 hearing today. The company expects to continue normal operations during reorganization.

In culture, the "Wedding Crashers" finally crashed the party at the box office. The movie led the way over the weekend. In its third week of release, it made more than $20 million. That drops "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory" to second place.

In sports, two of the most story (ph) franchises in baseball history sent a couple of new names to the Hall of Fame. The Cubs sent second basemen Ryne Sandberg to the Hall while third baseman Wade Boggs went in as a Red Sox -- Chad.

MYERS: Good for Ryne. Good for Wade. I'll go when Pete Rose gets in.

COSTELLO: I don't think that will ever happen.

MYERS: Well then I guess I'm not going.

COSTELLO: That's why you'll never make it.

MYERS: Good morning, Boston.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Thank you, Chad, but don't go away just yet.

MYERS: No.

COSTELLO: It is time to read some e-mail.

MYERS: The "Question of the Day," Carol, do you think intelligent life exists beyond Earth, and not just out there in the shuttle where they're working out there, way, way, way beyond Earth?

Kenny (ph) in London, Ontario says if we're the only intelligence in the universe, then this universe is in terrible shape. Let's hope Spock really lives.

Sharon (ph) says sure, why not. How arrogant do we think we are thinking we're the only intelligent life form? I'm holding out hope that there must be more intelligent life than most of us have encountered on this planet.

Cameron (ph) says I certainly hope so. I truly believe there is, otherwise it'd be an awful waste of space.

Mark (ph) says... COSTELLO: That's one...

MYERS: Took you awhile to get that one.

COSTELLO: That was a play on words. That was very clever.

MYERS: Mark says are there any other intelligent species? Well if we're setting the standards by the ones here on Earth, I certainly hope not.

And Brian (ph) on the big island says how arrogant can we be as a human race to believe that we're the only intelligent inhabitants of a celestial body? I believe that there are many worlds, like ours, with intelligent beings inhabiting and working day to day going to work wondering the same thing about their own existence, looking up at the night sky and asking are we alone too? That's from Brian.

COSTELLO: That is deep.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: You know you mentioned "Star Trek," or at least one of our viewers did. Remember the episode where they got to this weird planet and human beings had been reduced to just brains, so they looked like those things that you put over a cake to keep it fresh, there was a brain?

MYERS: Yes, right, right, I do remember.

COSTELLO: Remember that episode?

MYERS: Yes, finally, yes.

COSTELLO: Maybe there's...

MYERS: It's been awhile since I've watched some "Star Trek" though.

COSTELLO: It's very enjoyable and quite cheesy.

MYERS: About 10 years. Yes.

COSTELLO: And you know we like cheesy on DAYBREAK. Look at you.

MYERS: More to come, Carol, keep them coming.

COSTELLO: More to come, OK, DAYBREAK@CNN.com.

Still to come on DAYBREAK, President Bush tells the Boy Scouts he always listens to one person. We'll tell you who that person is next.

But first, good morning, Boston.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: As we told you a couple minutes ago that we were expecting Rome's antiterrorism police chief to begin speaking at a news conference in Rome, and indeed he is, Carlo Di Stefano. He's talking about Hussain Osman, a man suspected in the July 21 train bombings in London. He apparently fled to Rome. That's got Italy a little nervous as well. And he's also fighting extradition back to Rome.

Let's listen in.

CARLO DI STEFANO, ANTITERRORISM CHIEF, ROME POLICE (through translator): We're in touch. These contacts between police forces have always existed, particularly during the terrorist attack in 1988, and then some periodic attacks between various civil servants and high-ranking police officers during the years intervening. We are particularly glad in Rome to have these links with Scotland Yard, which in this particular case have been very, very valuable.

And so we set up this link, this very close link immediately after the 7th of July, and we went off to London to provide them with the necessary information, particularly with regard to all the activities going on, and to check out international terrorism links.

In Italy there has been a reaction to these very serious attacks of the 7th of July on a national level. And some 2,000 non-E.U. citizens have been checked out, those essentially who were known to the police authorities who have been involved in various crimes or investigations. And in some cases this has led to arrests or imprisonment. And on the 26th of July alerted the central directorate here in Italy of the possibility of a suspect terrorist escaping to Italy.

And the special branch of Scotland Yard also gave information as to some telephone calls which were recorded, telephone calls to Italian residents, and particularly in regard to Osman Hussain. And after having checked them out, we learned that Hussain Osman had very close links with Aaron Trin (ph) and Ethiopian individuals involved in terrorist activities who were also in contact with people in Milan and British shops.

And we investigated those links and then the investigations focused on particular mobile telephone calls to Milan, a lot of them, which seemed more interesting than anything else. And then the police force of Milan made available, or the technical possibilities, for tapping telephones and so on.

And then on the 27th of July, really a question of minutes this was as the police received some very interesting information. That is to say support was being given to Osman Hussain, it seemed. And the information, which was very useful, was being given over mobile telephones. And it emerged that there were links established between Milan, Croatia and Rome.

And then on the 27th of July, there was roaming activity helping the escapee. And the hypothesis was put forward that the real user of this link was not a friend or a supporter but in fact Hussain Osman himself. And then it goes the mobile telephone link goes silent and comes on again after a couple of hours. And it would seem, therefore, that the user, the escapee had thrown away the English chip card and was going over to an Italian one but using the same mobile.

So this same card was localized, identified to Rome on the night of the 28th of July in a region, which I will describe afterwards. And so that we checked through and learned and another itioconcitizen (ph) resident in Rome, who had a shop selling African objects, was identified. And his shop was being frequented by a man called Issac Ramzi Issac, who, later on we learned, was the brother of Osman Hussain. And in this case, the magistracy of Rome supported -- requested us to support all the necessary information.

And all the information, which we had, again, through the use of the Italian Sim Guard (ph). They used an Ethiopian dialect, which actually gave us some doubts about the origin of the actual individual concerned. Then the Metropolitan Police -- we sent off to the Metropolitan Police a printout of the communications. And it turned out that the voice of the suspect was exactly the same as the voice recording which we received from the Metropolitan Police. So we were more or less convinced that this was one in the same person.

The observers of the Ethiopian shop in Rome were alerted and focused their attention on it. And we stepped up our listening of the mobile phone. And we tried to check out the fact that the telephone card was located to the area where the suspect's brother rented and lived in Berm (ph). And so then it was decided to intervene. The special enough (ph) forces were alerted and Ramzi's (ph) flat was broken into where we found Osman Hussain, the fugitive, and he was handed over to forces of law and order.

Obviously after the arrest, we took the declarations of the fugitive and we understood, of course, his name was in fact, Hamdi Ados Esak (ph) who had been resident in Italy in the past. And in fact his brother had hid his old residence permit, which had expired in 1996 and wasn't renewed since.

So that allowed us...

COSTELLO: We're going to wrap this up right now.

If he says anything more important, we'll go back.

But basically he's talking about cell phone calls tying this suspect that's being held now in Rome to the London bombings of July 21, or would-be bombings, because, as you know, those bombs did not go off.

We'll get back to that as soon as we can.

We're going to want to start the 6:00 hour right now.

It is Monday, August 1.

A world leader is dead. Long time U.S. ally, Saudi Arabia is mourning the death of its monarch. We'll have a live report straight ahead.

High above the Earth, astronauts conduct a second space walk while NASA weighs whether to send them on their first ever in-flight repair of the shuttle before it heads home.

And it's a critical day for Iraq and its struggle to craft a constitution.

ANNOUNCER: From the Time Warner Center in New York, this is DAYBREAK with Carol Costello and Chad Myers.

COSTELLO: And good morning to you.

We'll have more on the death of Saudi Arabia's King Fahd in just a minute.

Also ahead, being 13 years old in America -- how do today's youngest teens feel about their future?

And some call it the human form of cock fighting. Others say it's legitimate, a skilled sport.

But first, now in the news, word just a few hours ago that Saudi Arabia's King Fahd has died. The king had been mostly out of the public eye since suffering a stroke in 1995. Crown Prince Abdullah has already been named as his replacement.

It's another walk in space for the shuttle astronauts this morning. They're replacing a failed gyroscope during their second space walk in the last three days. We'll have a live report coming up a little later in our show.

Sudan's first vice president has died in a plane crash. John Garang was a former rebel leader who joined the government as part of a peace agreement last month. Bad weather being blamed for the crash, which happened last night.

And a deadline from Iran with its nuclear program at stake. The European Union has about two more hours to provide a package of economic and political incentives or Iran says it will resume uranium conversion at one plant.

To the Forecast Center now and Chad -- good morning.

MYERS: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: As we told you moments ago, Saudi Arabia's King Fahd has died. He was in power for 23 years and took the country from a poor nation to an economic superpower.

For more on the king and the Saudi Arabian line of succession, we're joined by cnn.com Arabic editor Caroline Faraj -- good morning, Caroline.

CAROLINE FARAJ, CNN.COM ARABIC AFFAIRS EDITOR: Good morning, Carol.

Well, as you just mentioned, that Saudi Arabia today announced the death of its ruler, King Fahd, and they also announced that his brother, the crown prince, Prince Abdullah, became the king of Saudi Arabia. And his crown prince is Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz, who is currently the defense minister.

The announcement was made on the state run television, which was basically interrupted immediately after the announcement by a recitement from the Koran, which is a sign of mourning in the Muslim and the Arab world.

And the announcement, as well, Carol, mentioned that tomorrow the funeral will be in Saudi Arabia taking place, afternoon, around 3:00 local time. And on Wednesday, the people -- and the whoever is going to be in Saudi Arabia will be able to and pay respects, as well, for the new king, King Abdullah.

In the Arab and Muslim world, the country has already announced a three day mourning, as well as a sign of respect for the king, King Fahd. And also the Arab League, they just confirmed to us that the summit that was supposedly taking place on Wednesday, mainly focusing on the terrorism, and it will take place in Sharm el-Sheikh, has been postponed for a few days for the same reason -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Caroline, as far as U.S. policy and Saudi Arabian policy toward the United States, will that change at all?

FARAJ: Well, knowing that currently, of course, he is known as King Abdullah, bin Abdul Aziz, he was basically, as the crown prince he was running the country for almost 10 years due to the fact that King Fahd had been sick for several years. So basically when I talked to several politicians and officials in Saudi Arabia, they confirmed that nothing is expected to take place, nothing major is going to take place in terms of foreign policy as a whole, and mainly toward the U.S. They said that things will stay the same and nothing will be changed regarding these issues, because it doesn't change by changing the head. It is something that Saudi Arabia had been adopting and will continue doing so -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Caroline Faraj, reporting live for us this morning.

Now to the London terror attacks and word that the July 21 bombings were not tied to al Qaeda. At least that's what one of the suspects is saying. Hussain Osman told his story to Italian prosecutors after being arrested in Rome. A source who was present during the interrogation tells CNN that Osman said the attacks were not connected to the July 7th attacks. He also said they were not meant to hurt anyone.

Osman will be in court today to find out if the judge will validate the Italian charges against him. Britain is seeking to extradite him, but his lawyer says he will fight that.

Four suspects of the July 21st attacks are now in custody. But police in London are not done. They continue to search neighborhoods and arrest people in connection to the attacks.

For more we are joined by CNN's Chris Burns.

He's live at Scotland Yard -- good morning.

(AUDIO GAP)

COSTELLO: We're having audio problems with Chris Burns. But London is currently in a lockdown situation. Apparently there are police sharpshooters on top of buildings, but the transit systems are still up and running and you can move in and out of London as you wish.

We're going to try to get back to Chris Burns as soon we as get our audio problems fixed.

Still to come on DAYBREAK, at a quarter past, hope in the form of aid relief comes to a country crippled by famine. At 20 minutes past, tomorrow's generation opens up about what's going on in today's world.

There's the story we're talking about, 13-year-olds. How do they feel about spirituality, sex, their parents and the future of America?

Also, the rough and tumble sport of cage fighting and its push to gain some respect.

But first, here's what else is making news this Monday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): The top sports characters of CNN's first 25 years.

We asked the editors at "Sports Illustrated" magazine to come up with a list.

At number 25, quarterback Doug Flutie proved stature had nothing to do with impact on the gridiron.

A number 24, skier Picabo Street took no guts, no glory to new heights, as she sped downhill to victory.

At number 23, former NFL coach and broadcaster John Madden.

ROY JOHNSON, ASSISTANT MANAGER, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": And he was the first guy to take that pen and wipe it across the screen in ways that were not only informative, but entertaining.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At number 22, skateboarder Tony Hawk elevated his extreme sport to the mainstream.

At number 21, Scotty Bowman was the winningest hockey coach ever. He took three teams under his wing, to skate to nine Stanley Cups.

Stay tuned as we count down to number one.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

COSTELLO: What's next for Saddam Hussein? Iraq's national security adviser says he expects the former dictator's war crimes trial to start in October. And he tells CNN it will be televised throughout the Arab world. He says people will see that Saddam has "gone into the past and gone with the wind."

In the meantime, Iraq's new government is coming close to a very important deadline. It's for their constitution. They're promising to get it done. But fighting among the political leaders could derail the process.

Let's head live to Baghdad for an update and CNN's Aneesh Raman -- hello, Aneesh.

RAMAN: Carol, good morning.

Word coming just a short time ago from the head of Iraq's constitutional committee that they will, in fact, meet that August 15th deadline. Now, official word expected later today. Now, there had been some talk over the weekend that they could push that deadline by upwards of a month to hash out some of these issues. They have to and had to decide that by today. If they don't extend the deadline, they are locked into that August 15 date.

Now, there are a number of key issues that remain to be resolved, not the least of which is the role of Islam in Iraq's constitution. Will it be the source or a source, and what implications will that have on civil law, such as inheritance, divorce rights for women? Will that be under Sharia Islamic law or will that be under secular Iraqi law?

Also a huge issue is federalism, Carol, in Iraq. Will the autonomous regions have essentially all the power and have a weak central government? Or will it be the opposite? And what implications will that have specifically for oil revenue? The areas of Iraq that have the oil, do they have to share that wealth or do they get to keep it to themselves?

Now, it's important for all of this, Iraqi officials say, to be discussed now, because you'll recall that this will eventually go to a vote by the Iraqi people in mid-October. No one wants this referendum to fail. That only prolongates this process even further into next year.

But what we can expect now is no extension, according to the statements this morning, and an intense, Carol, two weeks of negotiation that could very well go down to the eleventh hour -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Aneesh Raman reporting live from Baghdad this morning.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 6:13 Eastern.

Here's what's all new this morning.

Developing news out of Saudi Arabia. King Fahd, ruler of the desert kingdom since 1982, died last night. His exact age isn't known, but it's somewhere between 82 and 84. His half brother, former Crown Prince Abdullah, is now the Saudi king.

In money news, criminals are making a killing from selling fake drugs. The World Health Organization estimates the crooks rake in more than $30 billion a year. Many of the bogus pills are distributed over the Internet and may contain incorrect doses, wrong ingredients or no active ingredients at all.

In culture, Gore TV is on the air. Actually, today is the debut of the former vice president's television network, called Current TV. Gore and other investors see Current as a sounding board for young people.

In sports, V.J. Singh holds off a Tiger. Singh won the Buick Open by four strokes. Tiger Woods had six birdies and an eagle, but he could not close the gap. He and Zack Johnson tied for second -- Chad.

MYERS: Tiger had one great back dime. It was like, it was par, birdie, birdie, birdie, eagle, par, birdie, par. It was just -- it was the most phenomenal round. He was trying to catch him, but he was just too far back.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Hey, Chad, you might be interested in this poll in "Time" magazine.

MYERS: Oh, what's that?

COSTELLO: I know that baby Chad is young yet, but they wanted to get into the minds of 13-year-olds, which is kind of scary.

MYERS: Yes. He's only eight months, but OK.

COSTELLO: I know.

MYERS: He's not...

COSTELLO: That's OK.

Still, you should pay attention to this.

MYERS: OK.

COSTELLO: And I'm sure that parents out there with 13-year-olds will want to pay attention, as well, because some of these statistics are startling.

MYERS: OK.

COSTELLO: "Time" magazine did this. Forty-six percent of 13- year-olds believe when they hit their parents' age, the United States will be a worse place to live. Not to optimistic on that front.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Don't...

MYERS: Only 22 says better.

COSTELLO: That's kind of sad, actually.

MYERS: Yes.

COSTELLO: Don't look for too many acts of rebellion, however. A large majority of those surveyed say they get along with their parents.

MYERS: Oh, that's good.

COSTELLO: That is good.

Regarding sex, 60 percent of 13-year-olds say people should wait until they're married. But they don't say that they'll wait, they say people should wait.

MYERS: OK.

COSTELLO: So -- and a lot of them refused to answer that question, so who knows what they really thought?

MYERS: Oh.

COSTELLO: As far as the quality of education, a majority of 13- year-olds give their school a Basin boy average. And stick around for a look at how 13-year-olds view religion and spirituality. It might surprise you.

"Time" magazine correspondent Nathan Thornburg will join us at 10 minutes past.

MYERS: Interesting.

COSTELLO: He visited one of those mega churches and they're trying to recruit 13-year-olds, because at 13, that supposedly is when you discover god.

MYERS: Ah. That makes sense.

COSTELLO: So it should be interesting.

MYERS: OK.

COSTELLO: All that ahead on DAYBREAK.

But first, let's say good morning to Boston, Massachusetts.

MYERS: Hey!

COSTELLO: It's kind of a steamy there -- a steamy day there today, Chad.

MYERS: Yes, a little bit of -- a couple of showers up there, but not too bad. WHDH, our affiliate up there in Boston Massachusetts.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Just in time this morning, being 13. "Time" magazine talked to a whole bunch of 13-year-olds, trying to figure out what it's like to be such a tender age at a time when growing up too fast seems almost inevitable.

On the subject of religion, take a look at these statistics. Sixty-three percent of teens polled said faith was very or somewhat important in their lives and plenty of churches are reaching out to teenagers, trying to appeal to them in their own language, whatever that might be.

Our guest, Nathan Thornburg, wrote that piece for "Time's" cover story.

Welcome, Nathan.

NATHAN THORNBURG, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Thank you.

COSTELLO: First of all, I didn't realize that, that when you're 13 years old, you're likely to find god for the first time in your life.

THORNBURG: Well, among the many changes that 13-year-olds go through I think a lot of people are familiar with, there's a real shift from concrete to abstract thinking. And it gives 13-year-olds the ability, for the first time, to really bring life to the skits and the rote learning that they might have had in Sunday school when they were younger.

So, in the words of one of the people I spoke with, it's a time for kids to be able to bring god home from church.

COSTELLO: So how are churches -- I know capitalizing is not such a nice word to use, but how are they capitalizing this?

THORNBURG: Well, a lot of people would use that term in a sense, because, as you said, they're speaking to them in their own language. And what that means is that they are putting on rock concerts. We went to some churches that had rows of Xboxes, huge movie screens, everything they can do to make this as much as a multi-media, entertainment experience for the MTV generation.

COSTELLO: Now, is this across all religions or just some?

THORNBURG: This is primarily what we've seen in Evangelical and fast growing non-denominational churches in the Protestant religion. I mean it's -- this is part of the whole outreach to make religion something that'll slip easier into the mainstream culture of America.

So, in the words of some of the pastors, they can fight what some of them see as a "perverted culture" out there.

COSTELLO: I understand.

You know, the statistics -- these statistics that we gave before the break about how teenagers feel about the world and how it will be when they grow up -- and the great majority of them think it will be a worse place than it is now. And yet so many are involved in spirituality and they think it's very important in their lives.

Is there any connection there?

THORNBURG: That's a good question. I think the poll found that kids were more pessimistic about their future, but that was really a break from the rest of what we found. They otherwise hadn't really changed much from previous generations in terms of the importance that faith plays in their lives, how important their parents are, how much they listen to their parents.

So the numbers about -- the pessimism was fairly surprising to us and we think that's one area where really the general culture -- worries about the war on terror, about global warming, these sort of big picture questions -- have seeped down to this youngest group, the teenagers.

COSTELLO: OK, well, let me ask you this. So they're open to listen about spirituality and they're in church and they're having a good time.

But how long will that last? I mean are there any statistics that have been done in the past that indicate that when you're 13, what you learn now sticks with you in the long-term?

THORNBURG: Well, that is a hard thing to track over the years. There is a great study out by Christian Smith at the University of North Carolina. He followed 33,000 teenagers and looked into their spirituality. And what he found was that although it was widely spread, he thought it was quite shallow. So he thought that teenagers thought that spirituality was important to them, but they had a very hard time articulating what it actually meant.

And he said that that boded very poorly for their future life in the church, that they would not be able to stick with it if they couldn't clearly say why it's important to them.

COSTELLO: Interesting.

OK, a final question. A lot of people think kids are growing up way too fast and they are a lot more, oh, you know, cynical than we were when we were children.

Is that really true? THORNBURG: It's amazing that we found that that just isn't so. I mean I think a lot of people look at what 13-year-olds are exposed to on the Internet, on TV, playing video games and think this must be a really hardened culture that surrounds adolescents today.

And the fact is it isn't. I mean these kids are as optimistic in a personal sense, and feeling like the world maybe isn't going to be a better place all around, but for them, they're going to do all right.

So I felt like there was a lot of positive energy coming off these kids, and it was a bit surprising.

COSTELLO: Oh, that is heartening.

Nathan, thank you so much for joining us.

And if you want to know more, it's in this week's edition of "Time" magazine.

THORNBURG: Thank you.

COSTELLO: And this note, still on the subject of religion. French President Jimmy Carter has some harsh words for the Southern Baptist Convention leadership. He says the Convention leaders misuse scripture to deny women an opportunity to serve as ministers.

Still to come on DAYBREAK, the world reacts to the death of the Saudi Arabian monarch. We get the latest from the White House.

And the Michelin men -- they're back! There they are. OK, so they're not exactly Michelin men. We'll talk about the Discovery astronauts and what they're doing up in space. They're walking in space right now. A live picture for u.

We'll be right back.

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ANNOUNCER: From the Time Warner Center in New York, this is DAYBREAK with Carol Costello and Chad Myers.

COSTELLO: And good morning to you.

Thank you for waking up with us.

Chad will be along with your forecast in just a minute.

Also coming up this half hour, another walk in space for shuttle astronauts. We'll explain what exactly it is they're doing up there. We'll have a live report on what may force them to spend even more time outside of their orbiter.

And the controversy over the cage. It's considered barbaric when animals fight inside a cage, but what about humans? We'll take a look. But first, now in the news, Saudi Arabians are mourning today for their long time leader King Fahd. He's credited with transforming the country from a poor nation to one of the richest in the world. Crown Prince Abdullah has already been named the king's successor.

British police have arrested seven more people in connection with the July 21 London attacks. One of the four main suspects is facing a court appearance in Rome. A judge there will decide whether to send him back to England to face charges.

A deadline from Iran, with its nuclear program at stake. The European Union has about two more hours to provide a package of economic and political incentives or Iran says it will resume uranium conversion at one plant.

To the Forecast Center and Chad -- good morning.

MYERS: Good morning, Carol.

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