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American Morning

High Stakes for NASA; Turning Up the Heat in London

Aired August 02, 2005 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Miles O'Brien. High stakes for NASA. A first in-flight repair mission for the shuttle to smooth out gaps on Discovery's underbelly before the blistering-hot return to Earth. We'll walk you through the space walk.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Soledad O'Brien. Turning up the heat in London, police arrest two more terror suspects. But will legal complications in Italy keep this key suspect out of the hands of British interrogators? We've got live reports from London and Rome straight ahead.

M. O'BRIEN: And a story breaking overnight in Texas. A huge fire engulfs a home for the elderly. Fire investigators looking for a cause, on this AMERICAN MORNING.

S. O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. It's a historic shuttle mission, but it's getting more complicated, and maybe it's even fair to say, more dangerous each and every day.

M. O'BRIEN: It certainly is. The space walk is simple as they go, but anytime you're doing a space walk and in close proximity to the shuttle, it's a dangerous proposition. In space, it is a first- ever repair operation scheduled for tomorrow for the Space Shuttle Discovery. And that's when a space-walking astronaut, Steve Robinson, will try to remove two pieces of filler material dangling from the shuttle's underside. Now the cloth is used to fill the gaps between Discovery's thermal tiles. NASA officials are worried the cloth filler could endanger the spacecraft during reentry by making hotspots.

Earlier this morning, the crew talked about tomorrow's planned space walk and the risks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EILEEN COLLINS, DISCOVERY COMMANDER: We're very confident because we have done a full inspection, and we've looked down with photos from the (INAUDIBLE) maneuver to the FN photos and all the laser inspections. We are highly confident in this entry, and we have one unknown left, and that's the gap filler that we hope to pull out tomorrow. And after we've done that, I think we're going to have a very clean entry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Tomorrow's space walk will be the third of the shuttle's current voyage. Discovery due to return to earth early Monday morning. Later on AMERICAN MORNING, we'll talk to one of NASA's biggest critics who thinks the shuttle program should be shut down once Discovery stops on the runway -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, British police are questioning two new suspects in the July 21st terror bomb attempt, and they're anxious to extradite a man who's now being held in Italy. Twenty people being held in connection with those bombings and attempted bombings.

Let's get right to Chris Burns. He's outside of Scotland Yard in London for us this morning.

Chris, first let's start with the extradition issues. What exactly is going on there? What's the problem?

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, it's just the kind of legal nightmare that Sherlock Holmes could only have dreamed of, and what Scotland Yard here has to deal with, and it's because authorities are trying to get ahold of Hamdi Isaac, who's held in Italy, and there are all kinds of headlines like these, that this is what his lawyer is arguing. She's saying that, look, because of all this publicity that's basically convicting people on the front page, Isaac and the other three suspected bombers, he couldn't get a fair trial here, and that's why he should stay in Italy and face charges there.

There's also a new -- the Italians have waged international terrorism charges against him, and that could also slow down the process -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, let's talk about this latest round of arrests. Who exactly has been captured?

BURNS: Well, this does show that the red (ph) dragnet is continuing across the country. There was another couple of arrests overnight in south London. Police cordoned off an area searched a couple of homes, even searched a car. So that process is going on.

Now they are among now, altogether some two dozen, almost two dozen suspects being held. All but one being held here. The other one in Italy, of course. They're trying to get to the bottom of the July 21st suspected bombings, but also trying to see if there's a link with those deadly attacks on July 7th in the subways and bus that killed more than 50 people -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Chris, you talked about the lockdown in London yesterday. Give me a sense of the security that you're seeing today on the transit system in London.

BURNS: Very intense. You know that old image of the London bobby. That's one of those images that's sadly shattered by these attacks. You're seeing these guys looking more like Robocop. Even over my shoulder, you see guys with submachine guns and flack vests. That's more of like what you're seeing not only around here, around Scotland Yard, but also in the subways and around town. That is incredibly stepped up in the last few days.

Now they have opened a couple of subway lines today to full service. But there are two more also that are still limping back. So authorities are extremely concerned about another possible attack, and people are also looking over their shoulders, and looking warily at anybody carrying a bag. I got one here.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, I bet.

All right, Chris Burns for us at Scotland Yard this morning.

Chris, thanks for the update -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Dignitaries, world leaders from all around world are gathering in Riyadh for the funeral of Saudi Arabia's King Fahd. He died Monday after a lengthy illness. Nic Robertson is in the Saudi capital.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The funeral service for King Fahd will be very short. It will be held at the Turkey Bin Abdullah mosque in the center of Riyadh. King Fahd's body will be brought there from the King Faisal Specialist Hospital, which is where he died. His body will come with an entourage of close family members, perhaps some dignitaries.

Many dignitaries have been arriving here in Riyadh. We've seen the Indonesian leader arrive here, the president of Afghanistan, Hamid Karzai arrived. They're expecting dignitaries from Jordan, from Algeria, from France, from many, many different nations are expected to arrive. And Saudi television has been carrying pictures of all these dignitaries arriving here in Riyadh, being greeted by Saudi officials.

We're also being told that people here feel sad that King Fahd has passed on. Everyone here knew that he was in ailing health, knew that he was going to die relatively soon. But most people here that we've been able to talk to say that he was a respected monarch, that people did genuinely like him, and that he will be missed. But nobody here really expects a great deal of significant change.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Riyadh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Well, new U.N. ambassador John Bolton presents his credentials to the Secretary-General Kofi Annan today. Back in Washington, the recess appointment that President Bush used to install Bolton at the U.N. is stirring up the anger of Senate Democrats.

Let's get right to Bob Franken. He's live at the White House for us this morning.

Hey, Bob, good morning to you.

What exactly is the fallout at the White House?

BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, don't you love that term, recess appointment? It conjures up to me an image that the president has appointed a schoolyard monitor or something like that. And the debate goes on over whether John Bolton is just somebody who won't be pushed around or whether he's the playground bully.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. CHRISTOPHER DODD (D), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: The U.N. needs reform. There's no debate about that. The question is, who can help us get it done? If we're sending someone who lacks the support of the Congress, the Senate of the United States, what message does that send to member states of the U.N.?

SEN. NORM COLEMAN (R), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: I don't put any credence into the claim that somehow he'll be less effective or weakened. And John Bolton is not a guy to be weakened, by the way. He's a strong voice. That's what the president wanted, and that's what America needs right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DODD: And so Bolton will present his credentials, as you pointed out, this morning, and Washington, Soledad, will move on to another controversy, or move on to August with the president leaving today for Crawford, Texas.

S. O'BRIEN: That's the way it works, right, Bob? Bob Franken at the White House for us. Bob, thanks for the update -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: President Bush is coming out in defense of Rafael Palmeiro. The Baltimore Orioles slugger under suspension now for using steroids allegedly. The president says he believes Palmeiro, who denied using the drugs in testimony on Capitol Hill in March.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAFAEL PALMEIRO, BALTIMORE ORIOLES: I'll be brief in my remarks today. Let me start by telling you this, I have never used steroids, period. I do not know how to say it any more clearly than that, never.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Palmeiro is serving a 10-game suspension after a recent steroid test came back positive. Now he says he never knowingly took the banned drugs.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PALMEIRO: I am here to make it very clear that I have never intentionally used steroids. Never, ever, period.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Palmeiro is the seventh player to fail a steroid test under a new tough drug policy adopted by Major League Baseball in March -- Soledad. S. O'BRIEN: President Bush says he believes that schools should be teaching intelligent design alongside evolution. During an interview with Texas newspaper reporters, the president said this, quote: "I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not of people ought to be exposed to different ideas. The answer is yes. The theory of intelligent design says that life on Earth is too complex to be explained by evolution, and therefore some intelligent creator must have been involved."

Miles?

M. O'BRIEN: Firefighters in Texas trying to get a huge blaze under control at an apartment complex. Don't have too many details at this point. We're told it is an assisted-living facility, though, with about 300 units. A Red Cross spokeswoman says four have been taken to the hospital, most for smoke inhalation. Fire officials say everyone has been evacuated. Many residents are being bused to a nearby shelter.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, an ex-Marine tries to become the first Iraq war veteran elected to Congress. We'll hear his views on the fight for Iraq.

M. O'BRIEN: Also, Pakistan cracks down on extremists in the wake of the London bombings, but is that key ally in the war on terror doing enough?

S. O'BRIEN: And coming up next, we're going to talk to one of NASA's biggest critics. He'll tell us why he thinks it's time to shutdown the shuttle program.

Those stories are all ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Discovery astronauts will attempt an unprecedented in-flight repair on the space shuttle tomorrow. They'll try to remove a couple of pieces of filler material that are sticking out between thermal tiles on the shuttle's belly. NASA scientists decided to take action because it's possible those protrusions could produce kind of a blow torch effect, excessive heating during reentry. I have, as a matter of fact, one of the tiles right here. Obviously, not one of the tiles from Discovery, but an extra tile, and the key here is, as you look at this, you can see kind of the dings on the edge. It's very, very fragile, and that's one of the big concerns is that, any time you do work in proximity to one of these tiles, you have to be very careful not to first do any harm.

Rick Tumlinson is the co-founder of the Space Frontier Foundation. He joins us to talk about this and some other matters related to space.

Rick, thanks for getting up early for us there on the West Coast. First of all, you think this repair idea is a good one.

RICK TUMLINSON, SPACE FRONTIER FOUNDATION: Well, yes, I think, you know, you can't take any chances. It's interesting, I think they've been sort of flying blind up until now. But because of the Columbia accident, they've got all these cameras on station. They could have been flying with these sorts of problems in the past and just didn't know it.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, I think it's almost -- you can almost say that with certainty that they probably -- this was happening.

TUMLINSON: Absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: And you have to ask that question, how lucky has the shuttle program been up to date?

TUMLINSON: I think we've been incredibly lucky. I think the system is very over overly complex. And you know, again, as these cameras are showing, we're seeing things we didn't even know were there. Basically, this kind of procedure, as far as checking out the shuttle, probably should have been in place from the beginning.

M. O'BRIEN: OK, and, of course, that launch, you'll recall, a piece of foam. There you see the shuttle as it came on approach to the space station. That's when they took those pictures that gave us a sense of those -- kind of the shuttle stubble, if you will, that they're going to have to shave off. During launch, however, a piece of foam fell off that external fuel tank again. Didn't hit Discovery, which is good news. But clearly, the underlying problem remains. What does that tell you about NASA and the two-and-half years they spent trying to fix that tank?

TUMLINSON: I'm not real happy about it. I mean, I am critical of the agency at times. And we are, on my side of the world, very excited about the new administrator and the direction they're going now, but I think it was stupid. I think, frankly, they had two-and-a- half years to fix this thing. They didn't focus on the exact problems and kind of worked their way around other issues. You know, what kind of things do we do if it goes wrong again, rather than fixing the actual problem that had occurred before. And, bam, here we go again.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you among those who, when Discovery gets back safe and sound next Monday -- and we hope that's when it happens -- are you among those who would say that should be it for the shuttle fleet?

TUMLINSON: I think the shuttle fleet should be retired. It's...

M. O'BRIEN: Right now?

TUMLINSON: It's like if you had an old car and you were starting to pour a lot of money into it, and you needed to get a new car. Some of the things going wrong in your old car might endanger your life, like the brakes going out, you know, you got to swallow your pride, maybe hitch a ride with the neighbor for a while, shut the old car down, put your money into the new one.

M. O'BRIEN: And you talk about what's next for NASA. The idea is to sort of take some of the shuttle components, stack them up a little bit differently, put a capsule on top of the solid rocket booster, a cargo hauler on top of the external fuel tank, and begin thinking about a mission to the moon and perhaps on to Mars. Is that where NASA should be headed, do you think?

TUMLINSON: Well, first of all, the NASA that was in charge of rebuilding the shuttle is not the NASA that's going to take us to the moon and Mars. We need deep, deep reform. And, frankly, I think somebody should be fired for this. If this were a private sector operation, somebody's head would be rolling once, of course, the people are back safely. I think NASA needs to look at not just building its own vehicles, but buying the rides from the private sectors. The new administrator, Griffin, has talked about using the space station as a market for private companies to begin to, shall we say, flex their wings.

M. O'BRIEN: And do you think it's realistic, though? Is the private sector ready to step up to the plate and provide rides to space? I mean, we've seen what happened out in Mojave with Burt Rutan. We've seen the efforts of Sir Richard Branson to try to come up with space tourism. Is that a realistic, notion, though?

TUMLINSON: I think it's as realistic as anything we've seen come out of NASA? I mean, you know, I think in the next few years, we could see private sector companies. There's a whole range of them out there. You've heard of the so-called Thrillionaires and the other companies. The T-Spaces, the other. The -- you know, you've got Bob Bigelow building a space hotel. They're going to do it without or without NASA, but if we could funnel some of the dollars being wasted on fiascoes like we just saw into some of these private companies, I think we could really open up space transportation in a big way.

M. O'BRIEN: Rick Tumlinson, co-founder of the Space Frontier Foundation, thanks for being with us. Thanks for getting up early -- Soledad.

TUMLINSON: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, the Atkins Diet, one of the most popular diets of all time. So how did the company behind it go bankrupt? We'll take a closer look just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. The death of the Saudi King Fahd moves oil prices. Andy Serwer is here to tell you about it as he minds your business.

Moving them up or down?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Moving them up, as you might imagine. And it's interesting, Soledad, on Wall Street, investors and traders are always looking over at the horizon. I don't think it was actually death of the king that moved prices up so much. Let me explain. Because that was neither so surprising necessarily or so unsettling.

And look at this, this is the price of crude over the past year. You can just imagine what that's been doing to the economy, obviously. It's the fact that Crown Prince Abdullah, now King Abdullah is at least 80 years old. That raises questions, and I heard people talking about this on Wall Street, what happens upon his death? There's no succession plan in Saudi Arabia, and it's very unknown what would happen. And that's actually, I think, what moved oil prices up to a record $62.30 yesterday. They did back down a little bit.

Other problems in the oil patch as well. We talked about problems with that BP refinery in Texas, an Exxon refinery in Joliet, Illinois also shutdown.

As far as Wall Street yesterday, a mixed picture. The Dow dropped a little bit because of that unsettling news in the oil biz. And the Nasdaq and S&P held up pretty well. Futures are higher this morning.

And one final note, Soledad, I want to tell you about, is Dennis Kozlowski, his sentencing was supposed to be today, the ex-CEO of Tyco, as well as the chief financial officer Mark Schwartz. You may remember they were convicted back in June. Who can forget this trial? Now it turns out sentencing is to be delayed until after school begins, September 19th.

S. O'BRIEN: Why? Any reason?

SERWER: The reason must be is that vacations got in the way of sentencing. Wheels of justice.

S. O'BRIEN: The wheels of justice turn slowly, and sometimes don't turn at all.

SERWER: That's right.

S. O'BRIEN: Andy, thanks.

A story that you told us about yesterday. What really went wrong that sent that company that's behind the Atkins Diet into bankruptcy. A look at that from Peter Viles this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): No one brought home the bacon like he did, or the beef or the eggs. Millions listened when Dr. Robert Atkins said the secret to being slim is right there in the frying pan.

ROBERT C. ATKINS, FORMER CEO, ATKINS NUTRITIONALS: Cheese and eggs and meat, as well, because all of those foods are without carbohydrates, basically.

VILES: The Atkins diet was said to keep stars like Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston slim. It was controversial, and for a while, it was a moneymaker. Wildly popular books created an entire industry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Introducing Subway's new Atkins-friendly wraps, like the savory chicken bacon ranch...

VILES: Soon came low-carb beer, low-carb pasta, low-carb cola, even low-carb bread.

ATKINS: There are many, many companies that are putting out low- carb versions of high-carb foods. And because of it, it is easy now to stay on a low-carb lifestyle.

VILES: But it wasn't easy to build a profitable business on all that. This weekend, privately-held Atkins Nutritionals, which makes Atkins shakes and power bars, filed for bankruptcy after losing $340 million last year.

DR. NEAL BARNARD, MD PHYSICIANS CNTR. FOR RESP. MED.: One thing is that so many people tried the diet, quit the diet. And the market was just gone. The other is there were many competitors in there. But I think that health advocates like our organization, who have brought lawsuits against Atkins and pointed out that there's a tremendous unhealthy aspect to them, I think that's been part of the nail in their coffin, as well.

VILES: One survey showed the number of Americans on low-carb diets dropped from 9 percent to under 4 percent last year. Critics of the Atkins way are gloating.

BARNARD: When you have a cardiologist who tells people that eating cheeseburgers and steak and pork rinds and sausage is good for you, that's an easy sell. And telling people what they want to hear has always been an easy way to sell things. But over time I think people realized that it's just not true.

VILES: Dr. Atkins died in April 2003, after a bad fall left him in a coma. His estate then made a very smart move. As the Atkins craze was peaking, it sold control of the Atkins brand to outside investors for $500 million. The company can't pay its bills, but insists it can survive as a smaller business. The company, in other words, that needs to go on a crash diet.

Peter Viles, for CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: At its peak, Atkins Nutritionals was selling about 150 packaged foods. Now the company says they're going to focus primarily on nutrition bars and shakes -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, bloggers beware. We'll meet a woman who lost out on a big job because of what she wrote online about her boss. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Get the latest news every morning in your e-mail. Sign up for AMERICAN MORNING Quick News at CNN.com/am.

Still to come this morning, an ex-Marine tries to become the first Iraq war veteran elected to Congress. But thanks to what he has to say about the war, he might be facing an uphill battle. That story is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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