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Hamdi Issac Fights Extradition From Italy; Bolton Fallout; Lessons From London

Aired August 02, 2005 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: World dignitaries pack a mosque in Riyadh this morning for the funeral of King Fahd. The Saudi king of 23 years being buried in a simple ceremony. We will go live there.
An historic mission for the Discovery crew. A tricky repair job before bringing the shuttle home.

In Italy, efforts to keep one suspect in the attempted London bombings from being extradited to England. A new twist in the case on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

Good morning.

Also ahead, newly-minted U.N. Ambassador John Bolton presenting his credentials to Secretary-General Kofi Annan today. Ooh, to be a fly on the wall and see how that one goes.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, yes, absolutely.

M. O'BRIEN: A little diplomacy there? I don't know.

S. O'BRIEN: Diplomacy 101 in that case.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Bolton, of course, got the job with a recess appointment on Monday. This morning we talk about the political fallout and whether this move hurts President Bush and his reform agenda in the U.N.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's check your headlines now. Carol Costello here with that.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I am, indeed. Good morning. Good morning to you.

"Now in the News," it's never been done before, but NASA is now gearing up for what could be a very tricky repair mission. Astronaut Steve Robinson will try to remove so-called gap fillers sticking out between tiles on the shuttle's underbelly. NASA officials are worried the material could overheat during reentry. It is the first time work is being done on the shuttle while in orbit. The repairs will be done during tomorrow's scheduled spacewalk.

Another deadly morning in Iraq. Police say at least eight people were killed in a series of drive-by shootings. A U.S. military convoy also coming under fire in central Baghdad. The suicide attack injured nearly 30 people.

In Washington State, a large wildfire has forced dozens of people out of their homes. The fire has grown to nearly 1,000 acres and is now threatening more than 140 homes. It's believed to have started in a mobile home that was -- that caught fire. More residents may be asked to leave just as a precaution.

And you've heard about Rafael Palmeiro by now. He's watching the next 10 games from the bench after testing positive for steroids. Palmeiro's suspension comes nearly five months after he told Congress that he never used performance-enhancing drugs. Palmeiro did not challenge the test results, though he denied that he intentionally took the steroids.

He said, "I have no idea how I tested positive. Maybe somebody gave me something and..."

S. O'BRIEN: I like the definitive: "never, ever, period," finger.

COSTELLO: But now he changed it. Now he's saying he never intentionally took steroids. So he altered his little congressional testimony thing a little.

M. O'BRIEN: He carefully started say what the definition of "is" is. It gets into that.

COSTELLO: Exactly. But you know what's really interesting? We had a doctor on earlier this morning, and he said that the lingering effects of steroids can remain in your body for 18 months.

If it lingered in his body that long, that means he committed perjury before Congress.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

COSTELLO: So interesting.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Carol.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Carol.

Well, CNN has learned that a suspect in the London terror case won't be sent to Britain until at least the end of this month. That is the earliest that an Italian judge expects to rule on the extradition of Hamdi Issac.

Chris Burns live for us at Scotland Yard this morning. Chris, why the delay in extradition? It seems almost like an open and shut case here.

CHRIS BURNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Soledad. It's just the kind of thing that Sherlock Holmes would never have had to face, but new Scotland Yard here absolutely does. And one reason was, look the at these headlines that have been run on the various tabloids here in London.

And this is what civil rights groups here say, as well as the lawyer for Hamdi Issac, is that he wouldn't get a fair trial here, that he and the other three suspects arrested in the failed bombings on July 21 would not get a fair trial because of all the publicity on these tabloids and elsewhere that essentially have convicted -- tried and convicted him on the front page. That is what the lawyer is arguing, that is what the Italian judges are considering.

Now, the last thing that we heard from Italy is that the judge has said today that he could make a decision by the end of August, early September. That could be good news for British authorities, who see it as a very important aspect in the case if they can get him to talk to -- directly to British authorities. He's been singing quite a bit to Italian authorities. Maybe they can connect some dots together and get to the bottom of this case -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: It really is complicated there.

Tell us about the other arrests in this case. Who's been arrested? Who are they?

BURNS: Well, we're looking at three others who have been arrested and are in British custody here. They are the other accused attempted bombers from July 21, as well as about more than a dozen other people who have been arrested in connection with the case.

Now, we don't know a whole lot about them. Most of them have not been named. But it is -- they are seen as potential conspirators or suspects in that July 21 attempted bombing, and that authorities are looking for any connection there might be with the July 7 bombings that killed more than 50 people here in London -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: What's the tone like in London, especially considering that we saw the front page reports of a lockdown yesterday? And certainly there have been much more police presence. Are people getting used to that?

BURNS: Well, you know, Soledad, two more subway lines have been opened to full service, but two more have yet to be since July 7. And so there is a sense of apprehension here.

And one thing that is a little bit sad is that the image of the London bobby with the nightstick is pretty much shattered. We're looking more like robo cops. You can see perhaps some of them over my shoulder with flak jackets and submachine-guns. And you see them even at the subways. On the other hand, when you talk to tourists, and to Londoners alike, a number -- a lot of them heard say that they feel reassured by that and they're much more likely to take the subway because of that -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Chris Burns for us this morning. He's at Scotland Yard.

Thanks, Chris -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: The funeral for Saudi Arabia's King Fahd is under way in Riyadh. Live pictures now from the mosque where the body is being buried in a cemetery in old Riyadh a little later.

It has been a relatively simple service for a monarch. The body is wrapped in a simple shroud. It is being buried in an unmarked grave.

Dignitaries, delegations from around the world, have come for the services. Security, as you might understand, would be very tight.

Fahd reigned for 23 years, but had been in and out of the hospital in recent months. His half-brother, the Crown Prince Abdullah, has ascended to the throne.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, new U.N. Ambassador John Bolton presents his credentials to Secretary-General Kofi Annan today. Senate Democrats have blocked a confirmation vote on Bolton. So Monday, President Bush installed the ambassador with a recess appointment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This post is too important to leave vacant any longer, especially during a war and a vital debate about U.N. reform. So today I've used my constitutional authority to appoint John Bolton to serve as America's ambassador to the United Nations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Bolton has been among the Bush administration's leading critics of the United Nations. Democrats have fiercely opposed his appointment.

Well, will this end run around the Senate have a lasting effect on the relationship between the White House and Democrats? CNN political analyst Ron Brownstein live in Washington.

Ron, good morning. Nice to see you, as always.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Recess appointments, as you well know, are not rare. Ones at this level, though, are actually quite rare.

Do you think President Bush is sending a message outside of just who he's appointed? A message, a bigger message?

BROWNSTEIN: Absolutely. I mean, look, as you say, President Bush is not the first president to use the recess appointment by any means. But whenever a president appoints someone through this mechanism who could not win confirmation through normal means in the Senate, he is making a very strong assertion of presidential prerogative and authority. And that is a message that this president has sent over and again, whether on substantive issues, or on process issues, like access to documents.

There's a fight going on about -- you'll recall part of the reason we're in this situation about John Bolton is the White House did not provide certain documents that Senate Democrats said they needed. So, yes, there's a clear pattern of this president affirming the authority of the executive branch, and we're seeing it here again with this appointment.

S. O'BRIEN: Senator Chris Dodd over the weekend said that Bolton is damaged goods. That's a -- that's a quote.

How polarizing do you think this appointment really is?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think the appointment is very polarizing, but I think the Democrat analysis is a little simplistic. Yes, it's true that he goes to the U.N. with a certain cloud over him to the extent that he was unable to win confirmation through the ordinary process. And, in fact, I think if you had a secret ballot at that Senate Foreign Relations Committee based on the comments of the senators, there probably would have been a majority against him, with several Republicans expressing doubts.

On the other hand, he is clearly going with the imprimatur of the president. The president has taken extraordinary steps to put this man in this job. And I think that gives his words a certain additional clout when he goes to the U.N., because understand he is speaking for the administration, which has not always been true with U.N. ambassadors.

S. O'BRIEN: When you look, though, at the president's approval rating, which I believe is at 44 percent, what's the message then there? Is it that the president just doesn't care if people support his choice or not?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, look, this is a president who is willing to take on polarizing fights, especially once that animate and excite his base. John Bolton -- the decision to give a recess appointment to John Bolton I think fits with the main current of decisions by President Bush.

He has consistently shown that when faced with a choice, most often he will choose the decision that most excites and energizes his base. And if you look inside that poll number, it really tells you the cost and benefit of that approach.

He's still at 87 percent approval among Republicans. Enormous numbers on a consistent basis. But among Democrats, he's just 17, deeply polarizing. And right now he's down to 36 among Independents, a very weak number, much weaker than he was in 2004. You have a very polarized electorate around the decisions that President Bush has made over these five years, and Bolton fits squarely within that.

S. O'BRIEN: So people who like him, love him. Is there going to be any kind of lasting impact potentially on the Supreme Court nominee, John Roberts, do you think?

BROWNSTEIN: I don't think the decision to appoint John Bolton is going to change a vote one way or the other on John Roberts, but it may have some influence on the process by which we get there. Having, in effect, stonewalled the Senate Democrats on documents they wanted on Bolton and then gone around them to appoint him to the United Nations, that probably increases the pressure on the Democrats from their base to stand firm and to press the White House very hard in this latest document dispute over some of the memoranda that John Roberts wrote when he was a deputy solicitor general in the presidency of the first George Bush. So it probably won't affect the outcome, but it may affect the way we get to that outcome and lead to a somewhat more confrontational process.

S. O'BRIEN: Energized the Democrats a little bit. Ron Brownstein for us.

Ron, nice to see you, as always. Thanks.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: The president preaching to his base a little bit on this point: he says he believes schools should be teaching intelligent design, alongside evolution. During an interview with Texas newspaper reports, he said -- and we quote him now -- "I think that part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought."

"You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas. The answer is, yes. The theory of intelligent design says that life on Earth is too complex to be explained by evolution alone and, therefore, some intelligent creator must have been involved."

Let's check back on the weather now. Chad Myers at the weather center with that.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, a prosecutor's mysterious disappearance. We're going to take a look this morning at whether a clue that's been found at the bottom of a river now holds any answers for investigators.

M. O'BRIEN: Also, a 25-year-old murder case reopened. Was the wrong man executed for the crime?

S. O'BRIEN: And coming up next, the lessons learned from the London bombings. Find out how one U.S. city is applying them now to its own transit system.

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: In our CNN "Security Watch" this morning, lessons for American cities learned from the London terror attacks. An LAPD and L.A. County Sheriff's Department team went to London at the invitation of the head of London's Metropolitan Police.

Dan Finkelstein is chief of Transit Police for Los Angeles County. He joins us now from our Los Angeles bureau.

Good to have you with us, Chief.

CAPT. DAN FINKELSTEIN, L.A. COUNTY TRANSIT POLICE: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: You happened to be there on the 21st when the second round of attacks occur. What did you see? What did you learn then?

FINKELSTEIN: Well, we on our way back to the airport and missed the second -- second rounds of attacks. But in general, what we -- what we learned a lot from the officials in London, the Metropolitan Police, the City of London Police, the British Transport Police, police in England have been investigating bombings since the 1800s. They have a lot of background history.

We had a chance to speak with first responders that were right there on scene and assisted in evacuations. We had a chance to observe the technology they have in terms of closed-circuit television cameras, which are among some of the best in the world.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk about what works and what doesn't. Let's start with what works.

Those closed-circuit cameras certainly helped in the apprehension end. They're obviously not going to do much to stop a bomber, at least with technology that exists right now.

FINKELSTEIN: Well, that's true. And very instrumental on the front end, very instrumental in the prosecution and continuing investigations.

I think one of the key things in preventing suicide bombers especially is to disrupt those activities through aggressive criminal investigations. And the trail that the cameras gave us on the back end, or gave them on the back end, were very helpful in making that -- making that happen.

But, again, certainly cameras are better than none. And we need to remember, too, that cameras are also helpful in just general crime prevention. It's not always about terrorism.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. Well, what else works well over there, do you think? FINKELSTEIN: Well, I think that, you know, the continuing training, and we've done a lot of that here as well, with grants received from the Department of Homeland Security in terms of drill, drills, drills, with very life-like scenarios and actual victims that are made up to have...

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, but, once again, that's kind of after-the-fact stuff. What about -- what about stuff that might prevent these things? Did you see anything else on the prevention side of it?

FINKELSTEIN: Well, again, this is one of the most challenging things I think any of us in law enforcement have -- have come across. Prevention is much more challenging here, certainly more so than, you buy this deadbolt and your house will likely not be burglarized.

The suicide bomber is a very formidable adversary. And again, aggressive investigations and trying to disrupt those people before they commit the acts is probably the best strategy.

M. O'BRIEN: Here in New York and in some other cities, aggressive is translating into random searches of people's backpacks and bags. What do you think of that idea?

FINKELSTEIN: Well, we're not implementing that in Los Angeles yet. We're looking at that.

Our Los Angeles County Council is reviewing that. I'm not convinced that is purposeful. And that's what -- something that we need to be...

M. O'BRIEN: Why not? Why don't you think it works?

FINKELSTEIN: Well, very manpower-intensive. We have 65 rail platforms in the Los Angeles County system. We have an open system here, meaning there's no barriers or turnstiles. And that allows our deputies the opportunity to have cause to talk to any person, anytime, anywhere on our transit system. And through that conversation, there very may well be an opportunity to look inside their bags or backpacks.

M. O'BRIEN: If you could fix one thing about your system and perhaps other systems in the U.S. that you think are lacking, and based on what you saw in London, what would it be?

FINKELSTEIN: Well, I think we need to enhance our closed-circuit television camera system here. And that's under way.

Our MTA board chairman, Antonio Villaraigosa, was -- gave the very strong mission to the MTA board last Thursday that we are going to have a close-circuit TV camera system "second to none," in the mayor's words.

M. O'BRIEN: And a final thought here, and this has been on our minds ever since we saw what happened in London. Why hasn't it happened here? Do you have any guess? FINKELSTEIN: You know, that's the challenge. And I think that's what terrorism is all about, is making you feel that your government can't protect you. And that fear and the unknown is what's playing on -- playing on everyone.

But, you know, we've got a good system in place here. London had a great system, but they got in. So, again, it's a hard thing to say. But we haven't had one here yet because we haven't had one here yet.

M. O'BRIEN: Do you think it's inevitable?

FINKELSTEIN: Well, I think any time in the nation where it very likely could happen. Any open event that has lots of people gathered, whether it be a transit system, whether it be a sporting event, whether it be a movie theater, whatever it could be, that's -- the potential is certainly there.

M. O'BRIEN: Dan Finkelstein, chief of the Transit Police for Los Angeles County MTA. Thanks for your time. Appreciate it.

Stay with CNN for the most reliable news about your security.

Still to come on our program, new questions are raised about the death penalty in Missouri. Was an inmate put to death for a murder he did not commit? That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: In Missouri, the case of a man convicted of murder is reopened, but it's too late to save the defendant's life. It's been 10 years since Larry Griffin was executed for a crime that he always said he did not commit.

CNN's Chris Lawrence has a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Right up to the moment he was executed, Larry Griffin said the same thing to anyone who'd listen.

LARRY GRIFFIN, EXECUTED IN 1995: This is the best type of (INAUDIBLE) that they can come up with to convict me for a murder that I didn't commit.

LAWRENCE: That was Griffin on death row in 1992. Three years later, he was dead.

Griffin's crime was murder, a drive-by shooting. We went back to the corner where it happened and found that that in this case, no one's entirely clean.

Twenty-five years ago, this was one of the most violent areas in St. Louis. And Larry Griffin fit right in.

He was a convicted criminal, and the victim, a teenage drug dealer. Quintin Moss was killed while standing on the corner. Wallace Connors was wounded. Connors initially told police he couldn't tell who shot them. Now he says different.

WALLACE CONNORS, WITNESS TO SHOOTING: I tell all of you all that Larry Griffin did not commit this crime. He was not in the car, and he wasn't the shooter.

LAWRENCE: One other witness identified Griffin and testified against him, but the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund reinvestigated this case for a year. They now doubt that witness was credible.

GORDON ANKNEY, FMR. PROSECUTOR: He was a career criminal and a professional liar. This is what he did for a living.

LAWRENCE: Gordon Ankney prosecuted Larry Griffin in 1981. He says these are all old witnesses with new stories.

(on camera): No doubt in your mind that Larry Griffin was the right man?

ANKNEY: Larry Griffin is not the poster child for an innocent man who was convicted. That's my point.

LAWRENCE (voice-over): Moss' family is urging prosecutors to find the truth.

WALTER MOSS, BROTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: As far as I'm concerned, it was closed before, but now those facts were untrue. Or could be untrue. We don't know.

LAWRENCE: In an almost unprecedented move, St. Louis circuit attorney Jennifer Joyce reopened an investigation into a man already executed.

JENNIFER JOYCE, ST. LOUIS CIRCUIT ATTORNEY: Well, if I determine after my review that I believe the wrong person was prosecuted and convicted for this crime, the first thing I'm going to do is involve the local police in finding the real killer.

LAWRENCE: Most convictions are upheld, and in this case attorneys have to dig through 25 years of evidence. The investigation could take six months to a year, but it's already stoked debate about the death penalty.

GRIFFIN: There is no way back from death.

LAWRENCE: There's no doubt Larry Griffin committed some crimes. The question is whether he should have died for this one.

Chris Lawrence, CNN, St. Louis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: If it is determined that Griffin, in fact, did not kill Moss, it would be the first time since the death penalty was reinstated almost 30 years ago that a person cleared of a crime after being put to death -- Miles.

Oh, I'm sorry. Let's finish up here.

Coming up this morning, more than three months after a prosecutor's mysterious disappearance, a new clue in the case. We're going to take a look about that coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come, an ex-Marine tries to become the first Iraq war veteran elected to Congress. But thanks to his views on the war, he's facing an uphill battle.

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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