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CNN Live Today

New Terror Tape; Enemy Within?; Ohio's Heavy Toll

Aired August 04, 2005 - 10:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."
Osama bin Laden's top deputy warned of more terrorist attacks on Britain and the U.S. In a new videotape, Ayman al-Zawahiri blamed British Prime Minister Tony Blair for the recent attacks on London and warns of more to come. Details ahead in a live report.

The surge of violence in Iraq is taking on a deadly toll on U.S. forces. Twenty-seven U.S. troops have been killed in Iraq since Sunday. The latest deaths reported by the military include a Marine killed in Ramadi and three U.S. soldiers killed a bombing in Baghdad Wednesday night.

NASA officials are expected to decide today whether to attempt another in-flight repair on the Shuttle Discovery. Astronaut Steve Robinson successfully removed filler material from the shuttle's underbelly yesterday. Now NASA is considering a fourth space walk to repair a torn thermal blanket below Discovery's cockpit window.

The Federal Aviation Administration wants to enforce permanent flight restrictions over the nation's capital. The FAA says the move is necessary because of the continued threat of terror attacks. The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association opposes that plan.

Good morning. And welcome to CNN LIVE TODAY.

Checking the time around the world, 11:00 a.m. in Toronto, 4:00 p.m. in London, and 7:00 p.m. in Baghdad.

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.

Up first, we're looking at terror threats on tape in a new message from Osama bin Laden's top deputy. The videotape is from Ayman al-Zawahiri, first aired on the Arab language network Al-Jazeera today. It warns of more terror attacks on the U.S. and Britain.

Our terrorism analyst Peter Bergen joining me now from Washington to talk about this latest tape.

Peter, good morning.

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: Good morning, Daryn

KAGAN: Not to say, told you, but just earlier this week you were right here on CNN saying this -- let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERGEN: I think Ayman al-Zawahiri or bin Laden are gong to find it irresistible to make some kind of comment on the London bombings and the Egypt bombings. And I'd anticipate that coming out in the next week or two.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: Right on schedule there, Peter. You said earlier this week that you predicted this would have happened. But al-Zawahiri, he doesn't take credit, but he does put blame.

BERGEN: Yes. Well, I think it was predictable that they would come out with a statement, either Osama bin Laden or Ayman al- Zawahiri, because they have in the past.

We've had 18 statements from Osama bin Laden since 9/11. And maybe 13 from Ayman al-Zawahiri. So they're -- they're making these statements pretty often.

It's pretty predictable that they would make a statement. It was also predictable that it would go to Al-Jazeera.

One thing that's puzzling to me, Daryn, is that why can't we trace back the chain of custody of these audiotapes and videotapes? After all, they're the one guaranteed way of finding these people.

We've had more than 30 of them from al Qaeda's number one and number two since 9/11. It was predictable that they would want to insert themselves into this post-London attack, saying sort of -- you know, blaming Tony Blair, blaming the United States, blaming what's happening in Iraq for what's going on in London.

So, to me, it's puzzling that somehow we can't -- or the United States government doesn't seem to be able to trace the chain of custody of these tapes.

KAGAN: Really, because, as you point out, this is not just happening once. This is happening over and over again.

BERGEN: Over and over again, and in a very predictable manner. After the Indonesian attacks in -- back in 2002, we heard from Osama bin Laden, sort of trying to insert himself into take something sort of credit for it.

In this case, they're not taking direct credit, but they are blaming, you know, U.S. and U.K. policy in Iraq for the attacks in London. They're promising more attacks.

And I just -- as I said, I mean, you played the clip of me a few days ago making this -- predicting it would happen. It's happened. And it's just very puzzling to me that these people continue to feel the leisure to make these tapes.

They obviously don't feel under a tremendous amount of pressure, because making these tapes requires a cameraman, a chain of custody, people to take them to Al-Jazeera, whether it's Al-Jazeera's bureau in Pakistan or somewhere else. And yet, unless -- you know, obviously I'm not privy to classified information in the U.S. government, but it does seem that we have not made any real efforts to trace back the chain of custody of these tapes. Or if we have, it's just not working.

KAGAN: The basic message here is, you haven't seen anything yet, is what al-Zawahiri is saying. And he also makes reference to the U.S., saying, what you're going to see if this goes on and you don't meet our demands is going to be worse than Vietnam. Why do you think he picked that reference?

BERGEN: Because I think he's hyperventilating. I mean, I just think, you know, they have a -- you know, a habit of sort of making these very, very huge threats. Often they don't follow through.

Certainly al Qaeda, or its affiliates, or people influenced by them, can do things like the London attacks, the Madrid attacks. The notion that he could pull off a Vietnam-style attack in the United States I think is completely ludicrous.

Certainly what's happening in Iraq, if it continued for several years, and a lot more Americans died, a lot more Iraqis died, would certainly fit into al Qaeda's desire to sort of bog us down in a quagmire in the Middle East and create tensions there. Obviously it would be different from Vietnam, but it would be the kind of thing that they want.

But then Ayman al-Zawahiri, in this new tape, said, you know, we should withdraw unilaterally from Iraq, which would suit them very well, because then chaos would ensue and al Qaeda or groups like it would have a foothold inside Iraq and would have a sort of Sunni- jihadist state in the middle of Iraq.

I think that's their intention. And that's much more important for them than what's going on in Afghanistan. Because, after all, is in the heart of the Middle East. Afghanistan is very much on the periphery. And I think they're really hoping that the Iraq situation will go their way.

KAGAN: And then just finally, other than the fact that they were able to do it and get this tape on the air and sent around the world, anything significant in the message, Peter?

BERGEN: I think one thing is simply that Ayman al-Zawahiri looks a lot older. I haven't seen him -- He looks -- I've seen a lot of his videotapes. He looks about five years older than I've seen him in the past.

So I think he's under some pressure, as one would be running around the Afghan-Pakistan border region with a lot of people looking for you. So I think that clearly he's aged rather dramatically in the last several months, it seems to me.

KAGAN: Peter Bergen, live from Washington. Thank you for your insights. BERGEN: Thank you, Daryn.

KAGAN: I want to give our viewers a little bit more background on exactly who Ayman al-Zawahiri is.

He is Egyptian, born to a middle class family in a suburb of Cairo. The State Department is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading to his capture. Al-Zawahiri is considered Osama bin Laden's closest adviser.

He is a medical doctor and founder of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad. And he's often referred to as the brains of al Qaeda.

The warning of more attacks in London comes exactly four weeks to the day after the deadly transit system bombings. Thousands of police are patrolling the streets and subway system in the British capital today. That heavy police presence is aimed at reassuring jittery London commuters.

The July 7 attacks on three subway trains and a double-decker bus killed 52 commuters and four bombers. Investigators say so far, there's no evidence linking those attacks with the failed bombings two weeks ago.

Meanwhile, New York police are revealing new details about the bombs used in the July 7 attacks. According to officials, London investigators believe the bombers used an explosive that can be made from hydrogen peroxide, used to bleach hair. They say the bombers also used citric acid, which is a food preservative, and heating tablets used by the military for cooking.

The State Department is warning Americans in London to maintain a high level of vigilance. The travel advisory warns of the potential for more terrorist attacks. Americans are urged to register with the State Department's travel Web site or the U.S. Embassy in London as a precaution.

And now on to the fight for Iraq. Insurgents took aim at Iraqi police and U.S. troops again today in what's turning out to be an especially deadly week.

We go to Baghdad now. And our correspondent, Aneesh Raman, is standing by with more.

Aneesh, hello.

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, good morning.

The attacks continue in Iraq today. Five members of the Iraqi security forces killed north of the capital city, in and around the town of Kirkuk. Three of them Iraqi police officers, gunned down in the town's center. Two others, Iraqi police commandos, killed after they were targeted by a car bomb.

Also today, Daryn, word from the U.S. military that three members of Task Force Baghdad -- that's of course part of the 3rd ID that controls the capital -- they died last night. We don't know much more than that except that it happened as a result of a bombing.

It brings, Daryn, the number now of U.S. military personnel killed in Iraq in just the past 11 days to 48. That underscores how dangerous parts of this country are, the complex and volatile situation that awaits the growing Iraqi security forces. And now, Daryn, more issues are coming to rise, specifically for the Iraqi police.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN (voice-over): In the war against insurgents, Iraqi police walk the front line. Daily targets for suicide bombers living with the prospect of violent death at any moment. But now another possibility is the greater threat from within, the enemy among them.

HUSSAIN ALI KAMAL, DEPUTY INTERIOR MINISTER (through translator): There were some cases that appeared: the leaks of information or the infiltration of insurgents into the police forces.

RAMAN: An alarming reality, but one the interior ministry, which now overseas the force, says should be no surprise.

After Saddam's fall, the country's security infrastructure vanished. Rampant looting consumed the streets. And as the insurgency swelled, so emerged an enormous void.

KAMAL (through translator): How can you control a country of 26 million in a situation like that? Americans opened the doors for recruitment and volunteering.

RAMAN: Perhaps too quickly. Unqualified recruits ranging from illiterates to men with criminal records were allowed into the force, according to a recent joint report by the U.S. State and Defense departments. Many joined up because it was the only way of getting a living wage. Testing was minimal, the report says, and performance, at the very least, questionable.

(on camera): But the interior ministry says that it now has a handle on the problem, that in April it implemented new policies, raising the bar for police officers and better scrutinizing recruits, weeding out those that don't belong.

(voice-over): These are some of the hopeful, unnerved by the endless violence, signing up for duty. Only half will make it through. And for those that pass, a battery of classes with new additions.

Lieutenant Colonel Iyad (ph) runs the program in Baghdad. "There are now other vital parts of the training," he says, "like human rights and democracy." Essential instruction in an effort to put a stop to incidents like this one in Najaf last year, when Iraqi police kicked a suspect.

And allegations of police abuse persist.

LAITH KUBBA, IRAQI P.M. SPOKESMAN: Part of the problem in Iraq is culture. Its political culture is the culture of how things are done. Unfortunately, violence and harshness and giving little respect to human rights is something widely spread.

RAMAN: While there's no easy fix to Iraq's police, the need to improve the situation is urgent. At the most basic level, if Iraqi civilians cannot trust their own, there will be nowhere for them to turn.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAMAN: And Daryn, Iraq's prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, holding a press conference earlier today, addressing these issues, saying that the government is looking into all allegations of abuse among the police -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Aneesh Raman, live from Baghdad. Thank you.

Speaking of the war in Iraq, let's show you a live picture right now of the United Nations. That is -- well, we have the picture. We have the new U.S. ambassador to the U.N., John Bolton, giving an update on the situation in Iraq.

Also, earlier today, since this is his first visit, his first participation to the U.N. Security Council as U.S. ambassador, John Bolton received a welcome. Let's listen in to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENZO OSHIMA, U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL PRESIDENT: At the outset of the meeting, I would like to extend on behalf of the members of the council our most sincere and warm welcome to Ambassador John Bolton of the United States as he begins his work at the United Nations and in the Security Council. We all look forward to working closely with Ambassador Bolton in the months ahead, and we also look forward to benefiting from his contributions to the work of the council based on his long and rich experience and a distinguished diplomatic career.

Welcome, Ambassador.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: And that welcome coming to John Bolton. Earlier this week, President Bush used a recess nomination -- recess appointment process to name John Bolton to the U.N. and to be the U.S. ambassador. More ahead on that.

Also ahead, we have -- going back to the deadly week in Iraq, it has hit home hardest in Ohio, where most of the Marines were from. We're going to hear from family members on how they're coping with their loss.

Another potential problem for the Shuttle Discovery. Does that damaged thermal blanket pose a serious threat? The latest on Shuttle Discovery coming up.

And Canadian officials now have two key components that should help find out what caused Tuesday's crash of an Air France plane. A live update on the investigation from Toronto is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)

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KAGAN: Of the 27 U.S. troops killed in Iraq this week, most were Marines from an Ohio battalion.

Our Keith Oppenheim joins me now. He's in the working class town of Brook Park. That is just outside Cleveland.

Hello.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn. And at this Marine reserve center, you can see that there's this makeshift memorial behind me, and members of the community, as well as relatives of fallen Marines, have been coming here to add flowers and various items along this fence.

We spoke to one family who has been quite upset. And they've not only been upset about the loss of their son, a Marine, but also upset about the continued presence of U.S. troops in Iraq overall.

The family lost Edward August Schroeder. He's a 23-year-old Marine from the Cleveland area, and he was nicknamed Augie.

Augie Schroeder was one of 14 Marines killed by a roadside bomb just near the city of Haditha on Wednesday. His parents, Paul Schroeder and Rosemary Palmer, as well as his sister Amanda, talked to us about their emotional devastation, as well as why these fatalities are prompting them to speak out against U.S. strategy in Iraq.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROSEMARY PALMER, MOTHER OF MARINE KILLED: You know, we have to stop. You know, like, we can't just continue throwing the kids away. And that's what we're doing. We're just throwing bodies at them, and it's time to stop that, and, you know, to start -- start looking at what we're doing. Let's open our eyes.

PAUL SCHROEDER, FATHER OF MARINE KILLED: Where do you cut your losses? If you know you've made a mistake, then you should cut your losses no matter what sacrifice has been made. You're not dishonoring those who have made the sacrifice.

AMANDA SCHROEDER, SISTER OF MARINE KILLED: It's not real to me yet. I mean, to me, like, he's still over there and he's going to call, and this is all going to be a nightmare, you know. But it's going to be really bad, and it's going to be really hard. And, I mean, I think that we'll get through it, but none of us are ever going to be the same.

(END VIDEOTAPE) OPPENHEIM: Obviously a very tough time for the Schroeder-Palmer family. And they are quick to point out that they are not speaking against the Marines. In fact, this family said they were very supportive of their son Augie's sense of duty to the Marines and his plans to fulfill his commitment on his tour of duty.

But his death is adding to their conviction that they are opposed to U.S. policy. And they say, because he has died, they are going to speak out more forcefully than ever against that policy -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Keith Oppenheim, live from Ohio. Thank you.

And as we go to break, we want to put a tribute up to others who have lost their lives over the last week. A look at some of the Marines.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: NASA today is turning its attention to another potential shuttle problem. A 20-inch-long piece of insulation has torn loose near a cockpit window. It weighs just ounces, but at supersonic speeds the insulation could damage the shuttle's skin. Astronauts might take another space walk to remove it.

Steve Robinson just can't stop talking about his six-hour space walk on Wednesday. He easily plucked pieces of errant fabric filler from the shuttle's belly. Like the insulation, the filler could have caused problems on reentry.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE ROBINSON, DISCOVERY ASTRONAUT: This is one of those things that you only get 20 pounds (ph) long afterwards. And you think about -- you know, you think about, "Wow, I should have been nervous." But really, when you're right up doing it, you're so focussed on the task.

And it was -- it was very exciting. And it was a calm sort of excitement because everything was moving slowly. It was in great control. I'm pretty familiar with the underside of the orbiter because I see it a lot at the Kennedy Space Center.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAGAN: The Discovery crew took a few moments today to honor the astronauts who died aboard Columbia in 2003. Commander Eileen Collins says she remains confident Discovery's return next week will be a safe one.

And now on to the investigation of the crash of Air France Flight 358. Authorities hope information from the voice and data recorders will help determine what caused Tuesday's crash. At a news conference this morning, officials said they're not ruling out anything as they move forward with their investigation.

CNN's Chris Huntington is live in Toronto with more.

Hi, Chris.

CHRIS HUNTINGTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Daryn.

Well, investigators tell us that they have just about completed the process of tagging and identifying all of the pieces of the wreckage of Air France 358 at the crash site. They also added that they don't believe any pieces fell off the plane on the runway, and that may be crucial with regard to any possibilities of mechanical failure.

But they say the work there is slow and painful, that the crash site is surrounded by mud and spilled fuel, and it's a messy process. And they caution that getting all the answers will take some time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HUNTINGTON (voice-over): An international team of 50 investigators, led by Canada's Transportation Safety Board, began combing the wreckage Wednesday of Air France flight 358, trying to figure out what caused it to skid off the runway and burst into flames.

REAL LEVASSEUR, LEAD INVESTIGATOR: We will be looking at all aspects of this accident. Weather is one of them. Aircraft performance is another one. Hydraulic pressure, brakes is another one, spoilers, thrust-reversers.

We will look at all of those. And just for your information, an accident normally seldom happens as a result of one cause.

HUNTINGTON: Investigators have recovered the so-called black boxes that may reveal what the plane and the pilot were doing in the crucial final moments. Air France says the six-year-old Airbus 340 was in perfect condition when it took off from Paris on Tuesday.

Passengers described turbulence during the descent, but some thought they were in the clear by the time they were landing.

YASMIN LADAK, PASSENGER: When we did touch down, people started clapping, just happy that we did touch the ground. And a couple of seconds after that, the plane just started jerking quite violently. And the next thing we knew, we were off the runway, and I could see flames in the distance or behind me.

HUNTINGTON: Investigators have not yet interviewed the passengers, nor the flight crew, nor air traffic controllers. Firefighters made it to the crash in just 52 seconds, perhaps because just three years ago they had conducted this exercise, eerily similar to the conditions they found with flight 358.

JOHN KALDEWAY, PRESIDENT & CEO OF GTAA: We practiced this against the hope that it will never happen, that we don't need to do this. But we train and we practice, and yesterday the event that we wished would not happen did.

HUNTINGTON: Many questions focused on the weather. Hundreds of flights were canceled or diverted from Toronto Tuesday as storms rolled through the area, and a lightning alert had been in place at the airport for nearly four hours before flight 358 touched down.

Officials say the decision to land was ultimately the pilot's, and emphasize that if the plane had been hit by lightning, that alone would not have caused the crash.

LEVASSEUR: We've had many cases of aircraft that have been hit by lightning, and it's normally not a problem.

HUNTINGTON: Investigators will also look at the conditions on the ground, and the possibility of pilot fatigue.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HUNTINGTON: Now, in just a short time, investigators will interview the copilot. He was at the controls when 358 touched down. He's said to be by Air France, 43 years old, with more than 2,500 hours experience at the helm of an Airbus 340.

Some other information we got from the investigators, that they estimate that the speed of the aircraft when it skidded off the end of the runway, about 95 miles per hour, compared to an approximate landing speed initially of 160 miles an hour. Daryn, a crucial question is where on the runway did the pilot touch down? There have been eyewitnesses, passengers, even Canada's minister of transport conceding that the notion has been raised that maybe the pilot over- flew too much of the runway before bringing the plane down.

By the way, that interview conducted today will not be divulged to the public. TSB says that that is privileged information. So it may be weeks or even longer before we know exactly what the pilot had to say and what did he in those final moments -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Chris Huntington, live from Toronto. Thank you.

Of course as he was mentioning, weather will be a consideration in the investigation. Let's check out the weather in the Northeast and across the country.

Here's Rob Marciano.

(WEATHER REPORT)

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