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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Nuclear Defiance; Flawed Diplomacy?; Homeland Defense; Offensive Mascots; Avian Flu Overview; Enforcing Immigration Laws
Aired August 08, 2005 - 17:59 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
Tonight, the United States faces sharply-escalating nuclear challenges from Iran and North Korea. Why are U.S. diplomatic efforts to end both nuclear crises failing? We'll have a special report for you.
Mass production of a vaccine against the deadly bird flu could begin within weeks. But can enough vaccine be made to be available on time? The director of the National Institute of Infectious Diseases is our guest.
We'll also be reporting on new fears of a major earthquake along the Mississippi River. Millions of people could be at risk.
And mascot madness at the NCAA. A new mandate on American-Indian sports mascots causes outrage and confusion as the NCAA enters an Orwellian adventure on political correctness. We'll have that special report.
We begin tonight with a sharp escalation in the nuclear crisis between Iran and the rest of the world. Iran today restarted its critical nuclear processing work that could lead to the production of nuclear weapons. The Iranians rejected both U.S. and European warnings that the United Nations might now consider sanctions against Iran.
Jim Clancy has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): A new Iranian president swiftly navigated his country on a collision course with Europe and the U.S., insisting on Iran's right to enrich uranium and produce its own nuclear fuel for peaceful purposes. As Iranian scientists resumed uranium conversion at a plant in Isfahan, the U.N. turned on surveillance cameras inside the plant. And the West pondered seeking U.N. Security Council sanctions.
No one dispute's Iran's right to produce nuclear fuel. The question is whether Iran would use that technology in a clandestine weapons program.
LEONARD SPECTOR, MONTEREY INSTITUTE INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: Well, once they begin to enrich uranium, they will have the capability in hand to upgrade it, not just for the use in a nuclear power plant, where it would be enriched to, say, 3 percent, but all the way to weapons-grade uranium, which would be enriched to about 90 percent.
So we are very concerned that they will have the capability in place and they can start stockpiling intermediate product, and then could break out of the Nonproliferation Treaty very rapidly and have nuclear weapons if they wanted them.
CLANCY: Iran did not declare its enrichment program. An exiled group revealed that in 2002, surprising the CIA, the Mossad and just about everyone else.
The U.S. accused Tehran of pursuing weapons of mass destruction. At the very least, the International Atomic Energy Agency said Iran had failed to comply with its obligations under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty.
More troubling, the IAEA reported finding traces of weapons-grade uranium at two sites in Iran that it inspected, while Tehran razed another site suspected of being part of the program.
Britain, France and German have offered to supply Tehran with nuclear fuel and dangled economic incentives as well. But President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is repeating what his predecessor declared: Iran will never give up its right to enrich uranium.
Jim Clancy, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: At the same time as Iran's defiance escalates, North Korea is refusing to negotiate over its nuclear weapons. Negotiations with North Korea ended without agreement. U.S. diplomatic efforts to end the nuclear stalemate with both countries appear to be failing altogether.
Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The United States is stuck diplomatically. And with both North Korea and Iran, the so- called multilateral effort is failing.
The North Korea talks hosted by China have broken off. And U.S. officials were vague Monday when asked if the talks showed any success.
ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPT. SPOKESMAN: You went through four drafts of a -- of a declaration of principles. That -- that's moving the ball forward. Couldn't get it over the goal line, but came darn close.
PILGRIM: Will North Korea come back to the table? More vague answers.
ERELI: We expect them to be back. But I don't -- I don't know if they said to us, we will be back. PILGRIM: U.S. negotiator Christopher Hill said that North Korea's demand to keep what it calls a peaceful nuclear program was the sticking point, because North Korea could easily convert it to military use.
CHRISTOPHER HILL, ASST. SECRETARY OF STATE: Light water reactors are simply not on the table. So I'm not sure what wiggle room we would have in that regard.
PILGRIM: With Iran, the United States has left the negotiating to the Europeans. France, Germany and Britain gave Iran an ultimatum which it ignored. But Iran's new leader, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is emboldened. He just met with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to pledge solidarity against the United States. Experts say if anything, things are getting worse.
ZEYNO BARAN, THE NIXON CENTER: Iran has also declared that it's going to increase cooperation with Syria over the weekend. So we are now seeing that Iran is basically deciding to clearly take on the Europeans and Americans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PILGRIM: Now, the U.S. State Department still insists on putting its hope in multilateral efforts. They say the hope of six-way talks on North Korea, is that they'll reconvene in three weeks.
And on Iran, the IAEA had to scramble together an emergency meeting in Vienna for tomorrow, where 35 member states will meet to discuss what to do -- Lou.
DOBBS: In point of fact, what can they do?
PILGRIM: It's very difficult to say. I mean, it seems that diplomatic talks have failed at this point. And I don't think there are any clear answers.
DOBBS: Kitty Pilgrim. Thank you.
Major new developments tonight in the United Nations massive oil- for-food scandal. U.N. investigators say the former official in charge of the program, Benon Sevan, received nearly $150,000 in kickbacks. Sevan claimed he received that money from his aunt, but investigators said that explanation was simply not credible.
Sevan resigned from the United Nations yesterday, and while doing so, said U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan sacrificed him for political expediency. In his resignation letter, Sevan also declared, "The real oil-for-food scandal is in the distortion of the misrepresentation of the accomplishments and the record of the program by now well-established U.N. bashers."
Another former U.N. official, Alexander Yakovlev, tonight appeared in federal court in New York on charges that he solicited bribes.
Liz Neisloss has our report from the United Nations -- Liz.
LIZ NEISLOSS, CNN U.N. PRODUCER: Well, Lou, just in the past hour, word has come out that a former United Nations official, Alexander Yakovlev, has pleaded guilty in federal court to taking hundreds of thousands of dollars in bribes from companies he was supposed to be setting up contracts for with the United Nations.
Yakovlev was a longtime procurement official at the United Nations, and this meant that he had responsibility for many high-value contracts. In dealings with the United Nations, apparently, according to federal officials, what he did do was to set up a false bank account. And companies who wanted to do business with the United Nations would have to deposit funds in that account.
Now, Yakovlev has also pleaded guilty to a money laundering charge, wire fraud charge. Each of these charges carries about 20 years in prison. And just hours before the guilty plea was announced, the United Nations lifted Mr. Yakovlev's diplomatic immunity.
Lou, it will be interesting to see what other tales Mr. Yakovlev may have to tell federal officials about U.N. business.
DOBBS: Thank you very much.
The State Department today closed all U.S. diplomatic offices in Saudi Arabia for two days because of what it called specific and credible terrorist threats. Saudi Arabian security forces have increased security at U.S. facilities in Riyadh, Jeddah and Dhahran. U.S. officials say terrorists are planning a car bomb attack.
Britain also warned about the possibility of a bombing. The British Embassy in Riyadh said terrorists are in the final stages of planning such an attack.
For the first time, the Pentagon has drawn up plans to respond to a major radical Islamist terrorist attack within the United States. Military officials say thousands of U.S. troops could be deployed in American cities in the event of multiple terrorist attacks.
Barbara Starr at the Pentagon with the report -- Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Lou, it's really all about planning and preparation for any type of terrorist attack. The secretary of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff, spoke with CNN about all of this work earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We have a set of plans under what we call the national response plan that deals with all of the potentially catastrophic issues that we could face -- nuclear, biological, chemical. And we really take a team approach.
HHS, for example -- Health and Human Services -- has a major leading role if we have a biological incident. EPA would have a significant role with a chemical incident. And obviously the Department of Defense has certain capabilities, including the ability to put a lot of hospitals and a lot of personnel in the field, which would be critical if we had a truly mass event.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STARR: And what Secretary Chertoff is really talking about, of course, is that the Pentagon has the resources, the personnel, the equipment in the event of what they call a mass casualty incident -- nuclear, chemical, biological, any type of real terrorist attack against American infrastructure.
But what's important to remember, Lou, under current law, the U.S. military only undertakes these activities when they are requested by Homeland Security officials. The U.S. military does not take to the streets on its own. But at the same time, of course, the military takes a very active role and will continue to do so, officials say, in protecting U.S. skies and ports -- Lou.
DOBBS: But, of course, Homeland Security doesn't have aircraft, missiles or any of the other weaponry necessary to, if you will, secure the homeland. And the Department of Defense does have the capacity to defend the nation.
STARR: And that is exactly...
DOBBS: Sort that one out for us, would you, Barbara?
STARR: That is exactly how this picture works. It is the U.S. military in the event of another attack that would have the resources, the troops, the personnel, the equipment, to deal with any type of situation. But the key thing, Lou, is it would come at the request of the Department of Homeland Security. It would be a presidential decision. It would be a governmental decision to put the U.S. military on the streets of the United States, so to speak.
That's what we saw after 9/11, when, for example, National Guard troops were in the subways...
DOBBS: Right.
STARR: ... were out on the streets. This was at federal orders.
So what Secretary Chertoff is saying is the planning is going on. People are continuing to look at how much it would take in the event of these multiple disaster scenarios. But it's very well organized. It would, in fact, only be implemented if it was at the agreement of the federal government -- Lou.
DOBBS: Barbara Starr. Thank you very much.
We want to know your thoughts about who should be defending this country, or homeland, if you prefer. Do you think the Department of Defense should have the primary responsibility when it comes to the defense of this country, yes or no? Cast your vote at LOUDOBBS.com. We'll have the results here later. When we continue, California Minutemen members face to face with angry protesters. A tense confrontation along our nation's border with Mexico.
This broadcast also targeted. We'll tell you all about that.
And House Majority Leader Tom DeLay backing tough new broken borders legislation. It may put him on a collision course with the Bush White House. We'll have a special report on our nation's border politics.
And after today's scrubbed shuttle landing, NASA prepares an alternate landing site. The very latest on the shuttle's return home.
Stay with us.
(COMMERICAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight, federal agents say they've dealt a significant blow to a violent SUR-13 gang located in Georgia. More than 70 members of the gang, the Hispanic gang, are under arrest. Eleven of those in custody are illegal aliens. Officials hope to deport them. Other gang members are being charged with murder, carjacking and armed robbery.
Meanwhile, in lawless Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, just over the border from Laredo, Texas, more than 100 new Mexican federal troops have been rushed into the city after another political assassination. A Nuevo Laredo city councilman was gunned down on that street just Friday, two months after the city's police chief was murdered in cold blood. Over the weekend, the city's second most powerful official announced his resignation amid the growing violence.
The United States reopened its consulate in Nuevo Laredo today. The consulate had been closed for a week because of the spike in drug gang violence. And an advisory, a warning by the State Department for Americans along the Mexican border remains in effect.
There were new anti-Minutemen protests this weekend on our broken border with Mexico. California Minutemen members trying to keep illegal aliens, dangerous drug smugglers and gang members out of the United States have become instead targets of protesters. And so has this broadcast, as Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The California Minuteman Project spent a month patrolling this dangerous stretch of high desert, trying to deter drug and alien smugglers from crossing the border here. And it claimed success.
JAMES CHASE, CALIFORNIA MINUTEMAN PROJECT: It's been a success, but it's been a very difficult success. I feel like I'm in the Vietnam War again.
WIAN: That's because an aggressive group of protesters has harassed the Minutemen throughout their stay here. The protesters are a mix of Latino advocacy groups, migrant rescue workers and anarchists -- many advocating the elimination of the border. They fly the flags of Central America and Mexico (ph) and wear shirts proclaiming azlan libre (ph), a reference to their goal of reclaiming the American southwest for Latinos. And they call the Minutemen racists.
Saturday, scores of protesters gathered to confront the Minutemen. But by the time the protesters arrived, the Minutemen had moved their operations to another section of the border, 20 miles away. So the protesters turned their anger toward my camera crew, myself and LOU DOBBS TONIGHT.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are going to make sure that we get Lou Dobbs off the air.
WIAN: They compared us to Hitler and incredibly blamed this program and the Minutemen for the death of an illegal alien trying to cross the desert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One person died while Jim Chase and his cronies were out here. Jim Chase and Lou Dobbs will be held liable for that death.
WIAN: They surrounded our camera and called us racists. Finally, sheriffs moved some of the protesters away.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Two other groups of Minutemen volunteers plan to begin patrols of this section, or a section of the border near here in September and October. The protesters say they'll be back as well -- and in even bigger numbers -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, just to put a point on it, how did these people decide -- the great thing about it being America, it's a nation that cherishes free speech. But I am curious, how did they decide we were racists?
WIAN: It's unclear. I didn't engage them in conversation about that. Didn't feel it was a good idea. Didn't feel it was safe to do that.
DOBBS: Well, not in the moment. I certainly can see that.
WIAN: Yes. But the general sense was, is that anyone who advocates tighter border security is somehow a racist. Anyone who advocates more patrols -- whether it's Border Patrol, or civilian patrols along the border -- is contributing to deaths of the illegal aliens who try to cross the desert.
That's their rationale. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but that's what they say.
DOBBS: Casey Wian, thank you very much. And we appreciate, as always, your reporting on those broken borders, which remain very much broken. Thank you. Inside the Republican Party tonight, battle lines apparently being drawn over broken border legislation that is set for debate in Congress this fall. The powerful House majority leader, Tom DeLay, is endorsing tough, new legislation that stresses enforcement over guest worker proposals supported by the Bush White House.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Before a hometown Republican audience, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay states his position, saying illegal immigration is called illegal for a reason.
REP. TOM DELAY (R), MAJORITY LEADER: And before Congress takes any significant legislation, we must secure our nation's borders and enforce the laws.
SYLVESTER: His speech in Texas was interrupted several times by thunderous applause. Representative DeLay took aim at cities that have so-called sanctuary policies, refusing to arrest people in the country illegally. The common complaint is, there's been no place to detain illegal aliens. But DeLay has a solution for that.
DELAY: We can put them in county jails. We can put them in prisons. We can even contract with private prison builders. We can -- if you pick up 50 to 100 of them, you can call up the National Guard. Put up tents. Put them in the tents.
SYLVESTER: The House majority leader's remarks come as Congress considers competing immigration reform bills. DeLay embraced Representative Tom Tancredo's proposed legislation that would take away federal funding from cities refusing to enforce immigration laws and would prohibit low-skilled guest workers from bringing their families with him. He doubts a competing bill offered by senators John McCain and Ted Kennedy, that offers illegal aliens the most benefits, will go far in the House.
DELAY: It has two names, McCain and Kennedy.
SYLVESTER: But DeLay's position puts him at odds with Republicans within the Bush administration who support bringing in cheap labor for businesses.
IRA MEHLMAN, FEDERATION FOR IMMIGRATION REFORM: He's laying down a marker here that until we can see some demonstrable enforcement of immigration laws in this country, the House isn't going to move ahead with any sort of guest worker program that the president is talking about, that the Senate is talking about -- that first we owe it to the American people to make good on the promises that have been made for 20 years and never kept.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And those promises, to enforce immigration laws at the border, in the interior of the country, and at the workplace. And what we're seeing shaping up is a huge pre-election battle within the Republican Party. On one side, a pro-business wing, on the other an anti-illegal immigration wing -- Lou.
DOBBS: That's interesting. Tom DeLay moving forward to this. Which of the proposals -- there are basically three proposals -- does he support then? The Senator Kyl of Arizona and the Senator Cornyn of Texas proposal on reforming both border security and actions against illegal immigration?
SYLVESTER: His ideas are more in line with Congressman Tom Tancredo. Of the three proposals, you've got the McCain-Kennedy, the Cornyn-Kyl, and then Tom Tancredo's proposal. He actually falls more in line with Tom Tancredo, which is the idea first you enforce the borders, then later on we'll talk about a guest worker program.
DOBBS: Thank you very much. Lisa Sylvester from Washington.
Still ahead, Arizona gubernatorial candidate Don Goldwater is our guest here. He says that state's illegal alien crisis has spun out of control.
Also, the Space Shuttle Discovery is set to land tomorrow after a 24-hour delay. The big question is, where does Discovery land? We'll have the latest for you on shuttle landing preparations.
And protecting the United States from a deadly bird flu pandemic. There is hope tonight for a new bird flu vaccine. The nation's leading expert on infectious disease, Dr. Anthony Fauci, is my guest.
Stay with us.
(COMMERICAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In New Mexico today, President Bush signed a massive energy bill into law. That law gives billions of dollars in tax breaks to energy companies. And it is the subject of our quote of the day tonight.
Before signing the legislation, President Bush said the bill is the first step toward a more affordable and reliable energy future for Americans. But then in an understatement that won the quote of the day award this evening, he added, "This bill is not going to solve our energy challenges overnight."
While energy companies are set to receive those massive tax breaks and reap what are nothing less than windfall profits, American consumers are being squeezed by the rising price of gasoline. Oil prices today hit a new high, near $64 a barrel.
NASA tonight is hoping that weather conditions improve for a shuttle landing early tomorrow morning. Low-lying clouds at the Kennedy Space Center in Florida forced NASA to scrub today's landing.
Miles O'Brien has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The fast- moving, constantly-changing clouds hovered only 500 feet above the surface. Not the kind of thing a shuttle commander would like to contend with on final approach.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It appeared we have -- we had some overall drying conditions. But it was a close day. It wasn't quite good enough. I just couldn't quite get comfortable with the overall conditions of the day, and so we'll come back and try it tomorrow.
O'BRIEN: So the return to flight mission will return to Earth 24 hours later than planned, precisely two weeks after it left. No complaints heard from the crew.
EILEEN COLLINS, SHUTTLE DISCOVERY COMMANDER: It's not at all a bad place to be. I didn't take it as any much of a letdown. It's a very precious thing to get to spend time in orbit. And if you get a little extra of it, it's just a treat.
O'BRIEN: And yet, NASA's first reentry since the loss of the Columbia crew will be a tense time. But so was the mission itself, as the shuttle team, equipped with more cameras than ever, saw the orbiter's warts and weaknesses than ever before.
Unlike this morning, NASA will activate some backup landing sites at Edwards Air Force Base in California's high desert and White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.
(on camera): NASA's post-Columbia flight rules do not allow the agency to launch a shuttle until another shuttle is far enough along in its preparation to perform a possible rescue mission. So if Discovery does in fact land somewhere besides here in Florida, that could impact the next mission of Atlantis in September. But until NASA fixes the persistent problem of foam falling off the external fuel tank, that mission remains in doubt anyway.
Miles O'Brien, CNN, at the Kennedy Space Center, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Our live coverage of tomorrow's shuttle landing begins at 4:00 a.m. Eastern Time, 1:00 a.m. Pacific. Tomorrow's coverage will be led by Miles O'Brien from the Kennedy Space Center.
Up next here, the critical fight to stop the deadly bird flu from spreading into the United States. One top U.S. health official working to secure millions of doses of vaccine is my next guest.
And mascot madness. The NCAA trying to be politically correct with a vigor and a vengeance with a brand-new policy, but one that is confusing to almost everyone. First, why is it needed? Secondly, just what is this policy? We'll have that special report on another adventure into political correctness, this time from the NCAA.
And rising new fears of massive earthquakes in our nation's heartland. The dangerous New Madrid Fault is apparently shipping. An expert from the U.S. Geological Survey is our guest here next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERICAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A vaccine against the deadly bird flu could be available in this country within a matter of weeks. U.S. health officials have ordered two million doses of the vaccine. They plan to order more. The mysterious disease has killed at least 57 people in Asia -- most of those victims in Vietnam.
Joining me now from Washington is Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institutes of Health.
Dr. Fauci, first, what is the likelihood that the bird flu, in your opinion, will spread to the United States?
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIR., NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: Lou, there's no way to quantitate, that except to say that the risk is higher now in August of '05 than it was years ago when there weren't really flocks of birds infected and people were not getting infected by a virus that was jumping from the birds to the humans.
We have 112 cases in humans, 57 deaths, and a very, very rare occurrence of spread from human to human.
If and when the virus accumulates the capability of going efficiently and in a manner that is sustained, from human to human, then we have a real problem. If that happens, and it really becomes very efficient in its spread, then it's inevitable that it will spread around the world, given the jet travel and the global nature of our societal interactions.
DOBBS: Doctor, you said the rare instance in which the disease has moved from human to human. And of course that is the very basis for a pandemic. When you say rare, how many cases have there been?
FAUCI: Very few. There's one documented family cluster of a child, an 11-year-old child in Thailand who got infected from a chicken and gave the infection to the mother and to the aunt by human- to-human spread. There are other less-confirmed cases, but very, very few.
So it's still very inefficiently being able to be spread from human to human. If that changes with a mutation or a recombination or reassortment of one virus to the other, that could change everything.
DOBBS: It is good to be able to talk with you tonight about rather the projections on the number of people who would be killed by a pandemic of the bird flu -- but rather, to talk about this vaccine. Is it incontrovertible that this vaccine would be effective?
FAUCI: No, it is not incontrovertible. And that's something that I think it's important to clarify. What has happened is that in preliminary studies, in a clinical trial using an H5N1 or bird flu that was isolated from the Vietnamese person, that when you give it to normal individuals who are young and healthy, you can, with relatively high doses, induce an immune response that would be predictive of being protective and effective.
You only nail down that it is protective and is effective when you actually use it in the field during an epidemic.
So the indications, laboratory-wise, that it likely would be effective is there. But it's not proven to be effective.
DOBBS: And the vaccine, as I understand, it will be a matter of weeks before it's available. Those doses, how many will be available and how soon?
FAUCI: Another important point to make, Lou -- and pardon me if I do -- is that when we talk about it being available, this is not going to be a vaccine that's going to be deployed preemptively. What we're talking about is that we already have 2 million doses in the Strategic National Stockpile in bulk form.
Secretary Leavitt of the Department of Health and Human Services is negotiating now to order a considerable amount more, the production of which and the delivery of which could happen within a period of weeks to a month. But that is not going to be material that will be given out to people in a preemptive fashion. It will be stockpileable.
DOBBS: I guess the question becomes, why? And I suspect the answer may be that because it is unknown how effective it will be, it would be the dire presence of the deadly bird flu that would prompt a public policy decision to make it available?
FAUCI: Well, that's an excellent point, Lou. The triggering point will be when something changes from where it is now; namely, when we start to see sustained and efficient transmission from human to human. That's what Secretary Leavitt calls the triggering point. When that happens, then you consider the options: public health measures, deployment of antiviral drugs, selective deployment of the vaccine to people at the highest risk.
Only when that happens will the vaccine be given out, not in a preemptive fashion.
DOBBS: And very quickly, we're out of time, Dr. Fauci. U.S. pharmaceutical companies, are they making this vaccine? Will they be able to make more should it be required?
FAUCI: They'll be able to make more. But, Lou, as we discussed on this show before, the ability to manufacture enough vaccines for everyone who needs it is just not there. The vaccine production industry is not able to surge up that capacity.
DOBBS: Dr. Anthony Fauci, good to have you here.
FAUCI: Thank you. DOBBS: A new study finds more than half of all of us -- 54 percent of all Americans -- test positive for one or more allergens. That's more than half the percent of Americans who tested positive 30 years ago. The National Institutes of Health study finds the highest response to dust mites: 27.5 percent of Americans test positive to dust mites.
Coming up next, border crisis. The nephew of a legendary American politician takes on the issue of broken borders. He's our guest here, next.
And a massive fault line in the midst of the country. Why now geologists and scientists are warning about signs of movement in the New Madrid Fault systems. One of those scientists is our guest here, next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Our nation's illegal alien crisis is now a major campaign issue in Arizona. Republican Don Goldwater has announced his candidacy to be governor of the state of Arizona, trying to unseat Democrat Janet Napolitano. Goldwater says Napolitano has not come to grips with Arizona's illegal alien crisis.
Don Goldwater, good to have you with us, joining us tonight from Phoenix. And I suppose we should get this out of the way, Don. If the name seems familiar to our viewers, that's because you are indeed the nephew of Senator Barry Goldwater?
DON GOLDWATER (R), ARIZ. GOV. CANDIDATE: That's correct.
DOBBS: Let me turn to the race itself. You're focusing primarily on illegal immigration in your campaign. I think I know the answer, but I've got to ask you why?
GOLDWATER: We'll I think it's a huge problem in Arizona. It's one that our congressional delegation throughout the United States has ignored for a long time. Our governor thinks that this is a federal issue, but once the illegal alien crosses the border, it becomes a state issue at that point in time.
It's costing us a lot of money. We're spending upwards of a total of about $1.2 billion trying to educate, trying to take care of the medical needs. And we have problems of incarceration. We spend over $810 million alone incarcerating illegal aliens. We have a lot of scenarios out there that we're having trouble coming to grips with, and this governor won't do anything about it.
DOBBS: Now, this governor, being Janet Napolitano -- and I should point out again to our viewers, we invited Governor Napolitano to join us here in the interest of equity and fairness, but she declined. Don, the idea that the state can do much about it. One of the plaintiff cries that we hear across the country from certain states is that it's a federal problem, and our city, our state can't get involved. How do you respond to that? GOLDWATER: Well, that's inaccurate. We've had Supreme Court decisions that have allowed our local law enforcement to get involved with the immigration problem. If they're trained through the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency, they can work with federal law enforcement to control illegal aliens. Well, that's just not true.
DOBBS: And let's turn to the governor, Napolitano. She has -- she called together a group of law enforcement agencies in Arizona to work on the problem of illegal immigration and the lack of border security altogether. How do you respond to that initiative on her part?
GOLDWATER: Well, it's just lip service from her part. She had a summit up in Flagstaff, Arizona, which she didn't even attend. Our law enforcement officials, such as the Maricopa County Attorney General, they had to force their way into that issue so that they could -- and we're not allowed to have any input into that summit. The basics that came out of that summit was that the governor has decided to hire 12 additional Department of Public Safety officers to patrol roughly about 312 miles, to control our illegal problem crossing our borders today.
DOBBS: Well, Don, you're -- as you embark on the -- on your quest for the governorship, you put yourself in opposition to the leader of your party, the Bush White House, President Bush. You put yourself in opposition to a number of Republicans, as well, on immigration.
Two proposals emanating from your state in the delegation -- one, that of Senator Kyle, and the other that of Senator McCain. Kyl and Cornyn and McCain and Kennedy. Which of those two do you see as preferable?
GOLDWATER: I like Senator Kyl's proposition a lot better. He does not advocate, in any stretch of the imagination that I'm aware of, any kind of amnesty for illegal aliens. We tried that back in the 1980s, and it just didn't work. 9/11 was a direct result of our open-border policy. So I would back the -- Senator Kyl's proposition.
DOBBS: Don Goldwater, we thank you for being with us. And again, I do want to point out we did invite Governor Janet Napolitano to join us.
GOLDWATER: We'll get her next time.
DOBBS: Giving you the last word, Don Goldwater, thank you.
GOLDWATER: Thank you.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in tonight's poll. Do you think the Department of Defense should have the primary responsibility when it comes to the defense of this country? Yes or no. Cast your vote at LOUDOBBS.com. We'll bring you the results here in just a few minutes.
At the top of the hour here on CNN, ANDERSON COOPER 360. And joining me now to tell us what's up, Anderson Cooper -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Lou, thanks very much Yes. Tonight on 360, the remarkable life and terrible death of Peter Jennings. We're going to spend the entire hour looking at Peter's life and also the ruthless killer that took his life, lung cancer. He lived only four months after announcing he had the disease. So why did death come so quickly?
We'll also look the leading cause of lung cancer, smoking, and talk to the man who inspired the movie "The Insider," Jeffrey Wigand, about whether big tobacco companies have cleaned up their act. Plus, if you want to quit smoking, what works and what doesn't. We'll sort out fact from fiction, all ahead on 360.
Lou?
DOBBS: Anderson, thank you.
Still ahead here, living on the fault line along the Mississippi. Scientists say the Midwest could be at risk for a major new earthquake. I'll be talking with a leading earthquake expert about troubling new activity along the new massive New Madrid Fault system.
And mascot madness, as the NCAA enters a P.C. penumbra. We'll be talking about the new NCAA rules on mascots. No one's happy with them. We'll try to sort them out. Stay with us.
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DOBBS: There are fears tonight of what could be a major earthquake developing along the Mississippi River. A recent study detected new signs of activity at the so-called New Madrid Zone.
This is one of the most seismically active regions in the country, and certainly east of the Rocky Mountains. Between 1811 and 1812, three catastrophic earthquakes hit that area in a three-month period. The U.S. Geological Survey says a repeat of those earthquakes would cause widespread loss of life and hundreds of billions of dollars in property damage.
Joining me tonight is Eugene Schweig. He's central and eastern U.S. coordinator for the U.S. Geological Survey. It is good to have you with us.
This report in "Nature" magazine has sparked considerable concern. Give us your best assessment as to how concerned we should be about this region. It's about a 150-mile fault line -- a zone, as geologists call it. How concerned should be we be about the imminence of an earthquake there, a major earthquake?
EUGENE SCHWEIG, CENTRAL AND EASTERN U.S. COORDINATOR: Well, I don't think we should be concerned about the imminence of the earthquake. I think that these results really confirm what many of us have been saying for a long time and that is that there are earthquakes that occur in the New Madrid region. And they occur every few hundred years, and they're going to happen again, and we need to keep the region prepared for repeats of those earthquakes. DOBBS: To keep the region prepared -- and we've got a map up showing basically that zone that runs between basically Memphis up to just south of St. Louis. I mean, that's a huge region, densely populated now as compared to 200 years ago when that -- those severe earthquakes hit. Much needs to be done here, if we're to allow those people to survive anything of the magnitude of those 1811, 1812 earthquakes, aren't we?
SCHWEIG: That's absolutely true. Now, people -- many people are aware of the earthquakes. Certainly since a prediction that happened in 1990 that of course never came true, many people sort of became aware of the possibility of an earthquake. They got their earthquake kits together, emergency supplies. But it's been 15 years now, and many people have forgotten that the earthquake threat exists, but it does.
DOBBS: It does indeed. And for many of us, if you will, who do not live in the nation's heartland, we think of California, certainly the West Coast, as being the most seismically active part of the country, and never once think about the Midwest. It seems solid, rock solid. And yet this is a major seismic area, isn't it?
SCHWEIG: That's right. And certainly, we do have fewer large earthquakes than they do in California, and we don't expect them because we're not on the edge of one of Earth's big tectonic plates. But the fact that this part of the continent is so solid is one of the problems. Earthquake waves travel much more efficiently in this part of the country, so for the same magnitude earthquake here and in California, we would have damage over a much larger area, and people would feel it over a much, much larger area.
DOBBS: What are the estimates -- the article in "Nature," of course, expressed the frequency of a major earthquake that is in excess of 7.5. Give us your best sense of what the likelihood is that a major earthquake will hit that region over the course of the next 50 years, that zone and the surrounding area?
SCHWEIG: Sure. Well, using a combination of the pre-historic record of earthquakes, our understanding of how often earthquakes are happening now, plus these GPS results, everything we can learn about the area, we estimate that there's a 7 to 10 percent chance of a repeat of what happened in 1811 and 1812 happening in the next 50 years and a 25 to 40 percent chance a magnitude six or bigger happening in the next 50 years.
DOBBS: And the extent of damage that would result should six or better occur along that -- the New Madrid Zone?
SCHWEIG: Well, it really depends upon exactly where that earthquake occurs. Now, if it were like 1811 and '12, the entire fault zone would rupture, there would be damage over a very large area. If it were a magnitude six, it depends whether it happened in the southern or the northern part of the fault zone. If it were in the southern part, it would affect St. Louis, Memphis more. If it were in the northern part, it might affect St. Louis and the other -- and many of the rural, small town communities up in southeastern Missouri, southern Illinois.
DOBBS: Right. The fault -- the New Madrid Fault is named after the town that was nearest the epicenter of the 1811, 1812 earthquakes.
SCHWEIG: That's right.
DOBBS: But millions and millions of people in those cities, tremendous cities, have been built along the entire region. Give us your best estimate as -- if we saw a repeat of what happened 200 years ago, give us your sense as to how well prepared we are in terms of earthquake standards, and preparation to respond to the disaster that would follow?
SCHWEIG: Well, in terms of what would happen and how well prepared we are, that's not so much my expertise, but it certainly varies from state to state, from region to region, from city to city.
Right now, there's a patchwork of building codes throughout the area, and so some communities are preparing for the earthquake more than others. But the main point is, even with building codes, improved building codes, we have so many old buildings. I would estimate -- guess that 90 percent of the buildings were built before there were any sort of seismic building codes, at least that many. And so, those old buildings are still standing. And they're still what we're living in and what we're working in.
DOBBS: And Eugene, as we were talking, video there of the Mississippi River, the Mississippi River, which reversed course over a significant stretch of that mighty river as a result of those earthquakes in 1811.
We thank you for being with us, Eugene Schweig. Thank you so much.
SCHWEIG: And thank you very much.
DOBBS: Peter Jennings died last night. We extend our condolences to his family, his friends and his colleagues at ABC News. Jennings served as anchor of ABC's "World News Tonight" for 22 years with distinction, and with style. His international news reporting set the standard of our craft, and he will be missed by all of us. Peter Jennings was 67.
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DOBBS: A new mandate from the NCAA -- not on graduation rates, or necessary grades in order to participate in college sports, but a new mandate instead on college sports mascots, and it's causing outrage and confusion all across the country. The NCAA says American Indian mascots are too offensive for some sports, but only during parts of the sport season, and only for certain sports.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These six letters the NCAA finds offensive. Fighting Illini, two letters short of the state's name, Illinois, named for the tribe of legendary Chief Illiniwek. But the NCAA wants to prohibit -- quote -- "hostile and abusive racial/ethnic/national origin mascots, nicknames or images" during tournament play.
So, Fighting Illini, according to the NCAA, is offensive. So are the Florida Seminoles, even though the Seminole tribe of Florida has endorsed its use. Florida State University's president called the decision "stupid," and accused the NCAA of a complete lack of appreciation for cultural diversity.
T.K. WETHERELL, PRESIDENT, FSU: The whole policy is discriminatory. To pick out certain schools on the Native American issue and then let other schools go doesn't quite make a lot of sense. And to pick out some that are Native American and some that aren't. So it's been very much arbitrary and capricious.
ROMANS: Arbitrary, because Seminole and Fighting Illini are offensive, but Fighting Irish, well, that's OK. It's also OK to be a USC Trojan, a San Diego State Aztec, or an Oklahoma State Cowboy. Not to mention, a Hofstra Flying Dutchman.
Aren't those also national origin, ethnic or racial names?
Native American groups say they're not opposed to Indian names; they're opposed to using Indian lore for sports, words like Redskins or Savages in particular.
CINDY LA MARR, CAPITOL AREA INDIAN RESOURCES: We're not asking for names of states or schools to be changed. But because of the fact that you have pitted one side against the other, it's going to cause some tension, racial tension. And that is the issue.
ROMANS: NCAA President Myles Brand: "All institutions are encouraged to promote these core values and take proactive steps at every NCAA event, through institutional event management, to enhance the integrity of intercollegiate athletics related to these issues."
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ROMANS: That statement after four years of study by the NCAA. And ironically, Myles Brand was the president of Indiana University, of course, a state and university named for the Indian tribes there.
The NCAA has 18 teams on its offensive list, all of them Native American names. An NCAA spokesman told us, Lou, that if a group of Irish citizens were to say perhaps that they were offended by the Fighting Irish, well, you know, they would consider, the NCAA would consider, they would study it, and they would consider whether Fighting Irish is something that should go as well.
DOBBS: You know, maybe -- Myles Brand is quite an interesting fellow. Why they would want to get involved in this Orwellian exercise is -- well, of course, it's contemporaneous with academic political correctness and orthodoxy, instead of freedom of thought. So that sort of fits for him. He's a bureaucrat.
But to embark on this, to take on mascots when there are far more important issues facing the NCAA is mind-boggling to me.
ROMANS: The NCAA says tonight, Lou, that they just don't want to offend anybody, that you have to walk in somebody else's shoes. And you don't know what it's like to watch a sports team that is portrayed as a warrior for a kind of -- for a kind of a Native American Indian tribe. And one of the people from one of these Native American groups that we talked to actually pointed out to the high rate of suicide among young people in the Native American tribes, and said that perhaps poor self-esteem because of mascots could be one of the reasons.
DOBBS: For example, Florida State University exulting the Seminoles, for crying out loud. Or the Utah Utes. I mean, this is just idiotic.
ROMANS: Some of these tribes might have been relegated to the dustbin if it weren't for the very upfront -- their name being out there.
DOBBS: That's just incredible. By the way, I'm wondering if I should call Dr. Myles Brand and tell him I'm offended by the graduation rates for football players in the NCAA and -- and basketball, other sports. Maybe in taking offense, he will take real action. I'm offended by extending those football games to 12 as well. That's a lot of football.
Thanks you, Christine Romans.
The results of tonight's poll: 92 percent of you say the Department of Defense should have the primary responsibility when it comes to defending the United States. How about that?
And finally tonight, Judith Miller, the Pulitzer Prize-winning "New York Times" reporter has now been in prison for 33 days for protecting her confidential sources in the White House CIA leak.
Thanks for being with us. For all of us here, good night from New York. ANDERSON COOPER 360 begins right now -- Anderson.
COOPER: Lou, thanks very much.
END
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