Skip to main content
Search
Services


 

Return to Transcripts main page

PAULA ZAHN NOW

Peter Jennings Remembered; On the Trail of Suspected Terrorists; Dog Attacks

Aired August 8, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody. Glad to have you with us.
Tonight, on the trail of a suspected terrorist across the Atlantic, across the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): New developments in the London terror sweep. Could this suspect be the connection between the British bombers and an isolated ranch in Oregon?

An unbelievable story, snatched from the arms of her mother.

SGT. TOM LORENZ, GLENDALE POLICE DEPARTMENT: And the child was mauled over her entire body with severe head and facial trauma.

ZAHN: A victim of her family's dog. How could this happen?

If someone pulls a gun on you, a split-second decision could make the difference between life and death. What would you do? Lessons from real life hold-ups that could help you survive.

And just months after he revealed the truth:

PETER JENNINGS, ABC NEWS: As some of you now know, I have learned in the last couple days that I have lung cancer.

ZAHN: A great journalist loses his battle. What you need to know about cancer's number one killer.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: We begin with an unprecedented and far-reaching story of terrorism tonight, one that covers three continents and includes the United States. It centers on London's would-be bombers. Their explosives misfired. Police tracked them down. and today they ended up in perhaps the last place any of them ever thought they would be standing, a British prison, charged with terrorism.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (voice-over): It's an understatement to say security was tight. The suspects showed up in special vans under police escort, with more police lining the street -- and all of this for a hearing that was inside a prison. But consider who was there, three of the four alleged bombers from July 21.

Yasin Omar and Ramzi Mohammed are charged with possessing or making explosives, conspiracy to commit murder, and attempted murder for carrying bombs onto the London subway. Ibrahim Muktar Said faces the same charges for allegedly trying to bomb a double-decker bus. All the bombs misfired.

Security cameras pinpointed the suspect Said on a bus, and Mohammed wearing a New York sweatshirt running through a train station. They were captured together on July 29. We saw them at an apartment balcony, shirtless, as police closed in. Omar was arrested two days before that.

A fourth bombing suspect wasn't at today's hearing. Hamdi Issac fled to Rome, where he was arrested by Italian police. His extradition hearing is next week.

The alleged bombers face life in prison if convicted. Great Britain doesn't have the death penalty.

Also in court today, Manfo Kwaku Asiedu. Police say he abandoned an unexploded bomb in a park.

Three other men are charged with withholding information from police or assisting others in evading arrest.

And then there's this man, and his story is very intriguing. Haroon Rashid Aswat was arrested in Zambia and deported to England. Cell phone records show that he may have had conversations with some of the men behind the July 7 suicide bombings in London. Those attacks killed 52 people. But none of that came up during Aswat's court hearing today.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Instead, what Aswat heard were the details of a newly unsealed criminal complaint from the United States, which wants to bring him over here to face charges in a shocking case, one that raises plenty of questions about terrorists in the most unlikely places in this country.

American authorities say back in 1999, Aswat scouted land and screened recruits for a terrorist training camp planned, in all places, Oregon.

Rusty Dornin has that part of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The streets were nearly deserted in Klamath Falls, Oregon, when Officer Morrie Smith was finishing up his graveyard shift on December 13, 1999.

Spotting a car with no brake lights, Smith pulled it over. He says that's when he noticed the driver and two other men definitely weren't from around here. MORRIE SMITH, KLAMATH FALLS POLICE DEPARTMENT: And I noticed that they're very militaristic looking. They had military BDUs, camouflage, with long black trench coats. And I noticed that they're of Indian decent. They have their ethnic headgear on.

DORNIN: Two of the three didn't speak English.

(on camera): Did you notice anything unusual about the behavior of the passengers?

SMITH: I did. I noticed the right-front passenger was holding a briefcase that was initially laying flat on his lap. The more of my attention that was being paid to him, I noticed the briefcase actually came up and it was actually -- he actually was holding it upright.

DORNIN (voice-over): The young officer says that made the hair stand up on the back of his neck. He sensed there might have been a weapon, but had nothing to go on. So, Smith gave the driver a ticket and let them go.

But thinking the whole thing was strange, he went back to the station and wrote up a report. He ran the traffic stop on a nationwide law enforcement computer system. Later that day, the FBI woke him up to ask him some questions about it. Sources tell CNN one of those passengers may have been Haroon Rashid Aswat, now in custody in his home country, Britain.

Authorities there are holding him on a U.S. extradition request, all because of his alleged connection to a ranch in Bly, Oregon. The FBI's interest in that ranch goes back to December of '99, just about the time Officer Morrie Smith was stopping that car.

The ranch is about 50 miles from Klamath Falls, just north of the California state line. Detective John Dougherty was sent to check out the ranch and do surveillance.

JOHN DOUGHERTY, KLAMATH COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT: To actually come out and locate the piece of property and then to photograph it.

DORNIN: Dougherty had a tough time, too many trees, too many fences and no clear line of sight. But when he flew over the ranch, he became suspicious.

DOUGHERTY: I took the pictures of the multiple cars. They didn't fit the area. You know, there's a lot of pickup trucks. This is a rural area. And what we saw was cars, not trucks.

DORNIN: Some time later, the FBI arrested and charged this man, James Ujaama. Part of those charges included attempting to set up a terrorist training camp on the ranch in Oregon. Ujaama eventually pleaded guilty to conspiring to support the Taliban in Afghanistan and served two years.

According to court documents, three other men were implicated in setting up the camp, but were not arrested or indicted at that time. But based on information obtained from Ujaama as part of his conspiracy plea agreement, authorities have indicted Aswat for his part in the Bly camp. According to court papers, Aswat and others wanted to advertise the camp to potential trainees as located in a pro-militia and pro-firearm state that looks just like Afghanistan. And plans for the Bly property included bringing people from London and from the United States to the property for jihad training.

Aswat told a London court today that he is baffled by these allegations and denied ever having participated in any terrorist activities.

STEVE LEONARDO, RESIDENT OF BLY, OREGON: Can you make butter out of goat's milk?

DORNIN: Back in 1999, Steve Leonardo owned the Bly Antique Store. He sold one of the Muslim families on the ranch a butter churn for goat's milk. Leonardo believes it would have been difficult to hide a terrorist camp on that property.

LEONARDO: They were here. And, definitely, one of the kingpins was here, so they did look it over.

(CROSSTALK)

LEONARDO: But I don't think -- from what they have observed, I don't think it could have happened, because we were -- they were too exposed. They were completely encased by neighbors.

DORNIN: The owner of the ranch told CNN the place had been trashed during the fall of '99, when Ujaama, Aswat and others were allegedly there. Some of the animals had starved. By some accounts, the men looking to set up the camp were squabbling. They left by early 2000.

Federal prosecutors say Aswat then went to Seattle, where he preached radical Islamic teachings at a mosque that has since been torn down. Officer Smith told us the FBI did not want him to comment on whether Aswat was the man he saw that morning.

SMITH: And I was actually kicking myself for not doing more on the traffic stop. And they said, no, actually, if you had asked the right questions, these individuals are very dangerous and they would not hesitate to kill, if it came down to that.

TIM EVINGER, KLAMATH COUNTY SHERIFF: This doesn't look unlike the Bly ranch, does it?

DORNIN: Up until that time, for Smith and other law enforcement, like Klamath County Sheriff Tim Evinger, terrorism was something that happened in the big cities.

EVINGER: The biggest lesson learned is that, truly, it can happen anywhere.

DORNIN: Even right in their own backyard. Rusty Dornin, CNN, Bly, Oregon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And there have been some other developments today in the war on terror.

For that, let's go straight to Erica Hill at HEADLINE NEWS for an update on that and some of the other stop stories tonight.

Hi, Erica.

ERICA HILL, CNNHN ANCHOR: Thanks, Paula.

That's right. A reported terrorist threat to strike U.S. interests in Saudi Arabia is having a ripple effect tonight. The U.S. closing its embassies and consulates in Riyadh, Jeddah and Dhahran, after what it calls credible intelligence about a possible attack. The British Embassy also put out a warning to its citizens. Last December, nine people were killed when gunmen attacked the U.S. Consulate in Saudi Arabia.

Oil prices today hitting new highs amid the security concerns. Crude reached $64 a barrel. The previous high was $62.50. Gasoline also hit a record average price, $2.34 a gallon for unleaded, 46 cents more than a year ago.

In New Mexico, President Bush signed a $12 billion energy bill. Now, he says it won't bring those gas prices down, but will have a long-term effect with tax breaks for oil companies, even tax breaks for buyers of hybrid cars. The bill also provides support for developing alternative energy sources.

The crew of the Shuttle Discovery is now less than nine hours away from a second try at landing, either at Cape Canaveral or at another site out West. Now, this morning's landing canceled because of bad weather in Florida.

And Iran has restarted its atomic enrichment facility again, it says, though, only for peaceful purposes. This comes after Iran rejected a European offer that would have guaranteed none of the material would be used for nuclear weapons. The State Department accused Iran of thumbing its nose at the rest of the world.

And, Paula, that's the latest at this hour from HEADLINE NEWS. We'll hand it back over to you.

ZAHN: Thanks, Erica. And we're going to invite you back in about 30 minutes or so. Appreciate it.

Still ahead, we have some incredible pictures for you to look at. If someone is trying to rob you, is there ever a case where you should actually fight back?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS RISING, GIULIANI SECURITY AND SAFETY: Is it worth risking your life over property?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Coming up, that advice from the experts. It could save your life.

But next, a devastating loss and a frightening reminder. Will Peter Jennings' lung cancer convince others to stop smoking?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: And now, Peter Jennings. You've probably learned of his death. He had anchored "World News Tonight" on ABC for 22 years before he was diagnosed with cancer a few months ago. And last night, he died at his home here in New York. He was 66 -- or 67, that is.

I worked with him at ABC. A lot of us here today -- or did here as well. We had tremendous respect for him as a professional and a human being.

Tonight, the people who bring you news on television are paying a remarkable tribute to him. On all three broadcast network evening newscasts, Peter Jennings was the lead story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT")

CHARLES GIBSON, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: Tonight, we remember Peter Jennings, the journalist, the leader, the American institution.

ANNNOUNCER: This is "World News Tonight" With Peter Jennings.

GIBSON: Good evening. I'm Charles Gibson.

Peter Jennings once began this broadcast, his broadcast, by saying, "we have seen the news and it is us". Tonight, the news is Peter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CBS EVENING NEWS")

ANNOUNCER: This is "The CBS Evening News" with Bob Schieffer.

BOB SCHIEFFER, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: Well, by now, you know the basic story. Peter Jennings died last night. It was the lung cancer that was discovered too late to treat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "NBC NIGHTLY NEWS")

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Good evening.

We begin our broadcast tonight with a loss that is painfully close for all of us and we know for many of you as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And, earlier today, President Bush took a moment to remember Peter Jennings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He covered many important events, events that helped define the world as we know it today. A lot of Americans relied upon Peter Jennings for their news. He became a part of the life of a lot of our fellow citizens. And he will be missed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And joining me now is someone who worked alongside Peter Jennings at ABC News for years, Cokie Roberts.

Thanks so much for being with us tonight, Cokie.

We saw the response of President Bush and the enormous respect he had for Peter Jennings. We've seen that response from foreign leaders, as well as ABC News being flooded with e-mails in support of his courage and his tremendous legacy as a journalist.

But it strikes me, as we listen to this piece of tape from one of his last broadcasts, that he was taken aback by the public response to his illness. Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT")

PETER JENNINGS, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: To be perfectly honest, I'm a little surprised at the kindness today from so many people. That's not intended as false modesty. But even I was taken aback by how far and how fast news travels.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, Cokie, what is the vein Peter Jennings touched in so many of us?

COKIE ROBERTS, ABC NEWS: I think that he made the news accessible and he comforted us in times of tragedy. And he enjoyed good times with us.

The millennium broadcast, he was delightful and having a grand time and celebrating. And, of course, the famous week of September 11, when he was -- just sat there in front of us for hour after hour, trying to make sense of it and trying to comfort all of us, particularly the children.

I think he just made it possible for us to know what was going on without it being something difficult for us to do. ZAHN: And I think viewers learned a lot about Peter Jennings on 9/11. I know you have said that, if Peter Jennings were to write his own eulogy, he would not put great journalist in the first sentence. In fact, what he would write about perhaps is his legacy as a parent. Let's listen to a short piece of tape from that 9/11 broadcast, when he referred to the nation's children.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, ABC NEWS)

JENNINGS: I checked in with my children and it -- who are deeply stressed, as I think young people are across the United States. And so, if you're a parent and you have got a kid in some other part of the country, call them up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, how did this emotional side of Peter Jennings express itself to you, his colleagues -- I had the opportunity to work with him...

ROBERTS: Right.

ZAHN: ... for years as well -- and his audience?

ROBERTS: Well, I think that the -- that the audience didn't see it very often, just from time to time.

But he was a very sentimental man. And the place where I really saw that sentiment was on the last Election Day of 2004, because he had become a citizen in 2003. And he was so excited about voting and being a participant, not just an observer. But you would see, he would -- he would create these odes to the Constitution. And tears would come to his eyes. He really was a believer in the American experiment. And he was very sentimental about it.

ZAHN: And I understood he actually carried around pocket editions of the U.S. Constitution in the back pocket of his pants. He had them in his car.

ROBERTS: Right.

ZAHN: He handed them out to complete strangers.

ROBERTS: Right. He -- well, he said that he got that idea from Senator Robert Byrd, who always pulled out his Constitution. And Peter figured he wouldn't be without his either.

And he -- he was invited to participate in the opening of the National Center on the Constitution. And he was thrilled about that and went and gave one of the most moving speeches and toasts to the country you would ever want to hear.

ZAHN: So, Cokie, we've talked about Peter's legacy as a great journalist, his legacy as a parent and a lover of children.

Now his legacy when it comes to the issue of cancer. You lost your sister to cancer. You are a cancer survivor yourself. What do you think Peter would want the American public to focus in on tonight, as he waged this very aggressive, but losing battle against cancer?

ROBERTS: Well, I think, first, he would say, don't smoke. And then he would say, try, if you possibly can, to have your cancer detected early.

Now, that's not always possible. I gather it's particularly difficult with lung cancer. But, by the time Peter's diagnosis came, it was -- it was an impossible battle to fight. If you get diagnosed early, early detection in all cancers saves lives.

ZAHN: Yes, a mantra that none of us should forget.

Thank you for joining us tonight, Cokie. Our condolences to the whole ABC family.

ROBERTS: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: And Peter Jennings' death got us all wondering, is there any progress on any front in the fight against lung cancer?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROY HERBST, M.D., ANDERSON CANCER CENTER: More and more, I'm developing a group of patients who are long-term survivors of this disease.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Coming up next, our Dr. Sanjay Gupta takes a look at some surprising cases that will give you some hope. I know it did me.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Peter Jennings smoked for decades and lung cancer ended up killing him. His death is one of an average of 1,500 cancer deaths every day in this country. And more than 30 years after the government declared war on the disease, cancer is still the number one killer of Americans under the age of 85.

Senior medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta has spent some time inside M.D. Cancer Center in Houston to actually show us what it's like on the front lines of the war against cancer. One of the people he met there is also fighting lung cancer. His name is Bobby Yoakum. And here's his story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know exactly where he's going to be sitting. Bobby will be sitting to my left, to the congregation's right, and he will be approximately eight to nine rows back. He is always there.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): By all odds, Bobby Yoakum should not be alive. A Baptist church deacon, he prays each day his stage IV lung cancer won't take him.

BOBBY YOAKUM, CANCER PATIENT: If you have cancer, don't worry. That's not going to solve it. Don't worry. You pray about it. You trust God. You have faith. Have faith in God.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's 97.

YOAKUM: Ninety-seven? OK.

GUPTA: Bobby spends his days receiving chemotherapy, sometimes radiation, and one experimental drug after another.

Dr. Roy Herbst is Bobby's doctor, a pioneer in new theories to beat back lung cancer.

HERBST: More and more I'm developing a group of patients who are long-term survivors of this disease.

GUPTA: Dr. Herbst first ordered Bobby a foul tasting mystery drink. He wanted to know if pure shark cartilage worked on lung cancer.

YOAKUM: I knew it would taste terrible, but anything that he suggested, if Dr. Herbst said it, I was willing to try. I have nothing to lose.

GUPTA: And in the beginning Plan A was a hit.

HERBST: You can see the main mass has pretty much disappeared.

GUPTA: But after 15 months of remission, the cancer began spreading. Bobby moved on to Plan B -- more chemo and a new experimental drug. But like almost all clinical trials, Plan B soon flopped.

HERBST: His tumor grew by more than 20 percent, so he had to come off the study.

GUPTA: Bobby was disappointed but hopes that his participation may have a larger purpose.

YOAKUM: Thank you, sir. Thank you.

It's not just going to benefit me, but what they find out is going to benefit the public, and that's why I was willing to do this.

GUPTA: Clearly, a single drug will not magically cure Bobby Yoakum and the more than 175,000 Americans living with lung cancer. Bobby is now on Plan C.

HERBST: We're not going to make it all go away, so what we're really trying to do is knock it down as much as we can.

GUPTA: The Yoakums are left with the promise of new drugs, new weapons in the FDA pipeline.

Just days later...

YOAKUM: All right.

HERBST: So, I guess congratulations are in order?

YOAKUM: Yes.

GUPTA: ... a new weapon does arrive.

HERBST: The drug we've worked on here for probably about three, four years now got its FDA approval.

GUPTA: Tarceva, a once a day pill, was fast tracked when trials showed it prolonged lives.

HERBST: In someone like Mr. Yoakum who, of course, is here on a regular basis, who follows what's going on in our research, we've already talked to him about, you know, what next.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GUPTA: And since this we filmed that, Bobby Yoakum is doing well. He's still on Tarceva. He still has cancer, but the cancer's not progressing as well. He is one of the longer-term survivors of people with lung cancer. And everyone is keeping a close eye on him right now -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, Sanjay, what are the survival rates for people who discover they have lung cancer?

GUPTA: They're not good at all, Paula. The median survival at the time of diagnosis is about 10 to 12 months, 10 to 12 months.

I mean, it just takes a minute for that to settle in. If you are diagnosed, within a year, six out of 10 people will die. Within two years, eight out of 10 people will die. Only about 10 to 15 percent of people live about 15 years -- five years.

ZAHN: Why do they go so quickly, Sanjay?

GUPTA: Well, part of the reason, Paula -- and you and I have talked a lot about different cancers -- but part of the reason is, we don't have a really good early detection sort of technique for lung cancer. We don't how to screen this really well.

Breast cancer, you've got mammograms. Prostate cancer, you've got PSA tests. Colon cancer, you've got colonoscopies. There are certain tests here, but we don't know how to screen very well for this. So, by the time a patient comes to the doctor, they usually already have advanced cancer.

ZAHN: And just a quick answer about enrolling for these clinical trials, which are sometimes, you know, difficult to navigate the maze here.

GUPTA: You know, we worked on this special for some time. Clinical trials are important. A lot of people think that they might be a guinea pig. They might just be advancing science. But a lot of people who are given a terminal diagnosis can enroll in a clinical trial and possibly get some cutting-edge treatment.

There is a Web site. I think, if people are listening at home, they can go to this Web site. It's called -- I think we have the name of it here somewhere -- cancer.gov/clinicaltrials, cancer.gov/clinicaltrials. Punch in the type of cancer you have and you'll find clinical trials near you.

ZAHN: We got that up right under your chest there, Sanjay.

GUPTA: Great.

ZAHN: Helpful information. Appreciate it.

This Sunday, please join Sanjay for a special CNN PRESENTS, "Taming the Beast: Inside the War on Cancer." That's Sunday at 8:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

A little bit later on, another aspect of Peter Jennings' legacy. It hasn't been mentioned very much in anyone's coverage today, but it's essential and it's going to make you smile.

But, coming up next, some pictures you'll absolutely not be able to look away from, horrifying to look at. They show crime victims actually fighting back. But should you ever try it if you have to confront a situation like this? We're going to ask some experts.

Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: What would you do if someone pulled a gun on you? Not something I like to think about, but it came to mind a couple of weeks ago when I saw a surveillance tape of four people in an apartment building lobby actually fighting back when a man pointed a gun at them.

So we asked Deborah Feyerick to take a look at that tape, and some other confrontations caught on video, and find out from the experts what you should do if it happens to you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A robber gets the surprise of his life when a jewelry store owner takes him down in Pinecrest, Florida.

In Oklahoma City, a convenience store owner fights back against a masked gunman.

A cash grab at a Dunkin' Donuts in Brooklyn, New York, is broken up by an off-duty cop. And a guy pulls a gun inside a Washington, D.C., apartment building. Four friends hanging out in the lobby jumped him. One is killed.

Four attempted robberies. Four fights.

(on camera): The question is, did they do the right thing?

Emanuel Kapelsohn is a firearms instructor who works with city police. Chris Rising spent 20 years with the NYPD and headed up the vice division.

First of all, let's look at the jewelry store. The owner, Eddie DePaula, told CNN that it really wasn't a choice. Something in me just reacted.

Chris, fight or flight?

RISING: Well, I think this is a perfect example. There's no blanket answer for these kinds of situations. I think in this case, the decision in many ways was made for him. I think that the assailant turned this from a straight robbery into a violent encounter, and of course at that instance, he had to react.

FEYERICK: Now, Emanuel, though, was the store owner's life ever in any danger?

EMANUEL KAPELSOHN, PEREGRINE CORPORATION: Well, of course your life is in danger when someone comes in and points a gun at you. But I think it's essential for people in a crime to try to make a determination of whether the robber is there to steal money and property, or whether he's there to do them physical harm. Usually a weapon is used just as a threat to get the property, and the best advice is give them your wallet, give them the money, give them the jewelry. Most of the time, they will leave without hurting you.

FEYERICK: Right here, why not just let this guy go?

KAPELSOHN: If they could let him go, they ought to. What you ought to do is do what the robber says. Try not to incite or upset him. Don't block his means of escape. Give him what he wants. And most of the time, he'll leave without harming you.

FEYERICK: Now, in this incident, this is the lobby of a Washington, D.C., apartment building. And the guy in the white shirt is about to open the door for a guy who is actually going to turn out to be a gunman. And within just a matter of moments, the guy comes back. He pulls a gun on these four people.

Now, Chris, the odds here are pretty good. You've got four guys against one gunman. I would jump into a fight if I thought the odds like that were in my favor.

RISING: Well, I think as we found out from this circumstance, that would be the wrong move. I mean, in this case, a gun trumped four individuals. One of the victims in this case ended up being killed in this situation.

And it goes back to what exactly was at risk here? It was property. He was trying to steal property. Is it worth risking your life over property? Here, in this situation, the move for me, give him your wallet, give him what he wants, and live to tell the story another day.

FEYERICK: We just saw in that video that he had begun to lower that gun. Right there, maybe they thought, OK, he's putting it away.

KAPELSOHN: You see, they didn't go for the gun. Although there were four of them, they never controlled the gun. They attacked the man. That leaves him free to point the gun and fire it, which is what he did.

FEYERICK: Now, Chris, is there any situation where, in fact, the right thing to do would have been to go for the guy, not to go for the gun?

RISING: You know, for everything to work out perfect, you have to end up with that gun. Think of all the things that can go wrong. You're not successful in disarming him, he's able to shoot you. You escalated the situation. You grabbed the gun, and he shoots one of your friends. Maybe he has an accomplice standing outside. There's so much you don't know.

FEYERICK: Now, in Brooklyn, New York, a 22-year-old knife- wielding thug jumps the counter at a Dunkin' Donuts. You see, he's trying to grab for the money, but something very different happens instead. There is an off-duty officer standing right behind him, and he's going to go for him just as he reaches for the cash.

RISING: Let's point out that this is a heroic officer. This is an officer coming to the aid of other people when he sees a crime being committed. But as the video shows, he made an error here. He was unaware, it appears, that the individual was armed with a knife, and he paid dearly for that. He was severely injured.

KAPELSOHN: Even an off-duty or plain clothes police officer in a situation like this is best advised to let the robber take the money and leave, and confront him outside, where there's less chance of harm to innocent bystanders, if that's possible.

FEYERICK: So let's take a look now at the last piece of video. It's a bit grainy, but as we roll it, you can see. Oklahoma City, gunman, masked, bursts in on a convenience store. And the convenience store owner actually grabs the barrel of the gun. So Emanuel, let's talk about not being properly trained here.

KAPELSOHN: It's a desperate move even for a well-trained person. And if all the robber wants is the money and go away, give him the money and let him go away.

FEYERICK (voice-over): So in the end, it's better to give up what you've got than risk a fight you may not win.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: That was Deborah Feyerick with some important lessons I hope none of us ever have to use.

Coming up next, a shocking story that will leave you wondering, is there a potential four-legged killer in your neighborhood or even in your own home?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORENZ: I can only imagine what it was like for the firefighters, the police officers and the crime scene investigators. They said it was one of the most horrific things they have seen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: What could have prevented this tragedy? Is it time we passed laws to keep anyone from owning vicious dogs?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: Nearly two dozen people were killed by dogs last year in the United States and when that kind of death happens and it involves a pit bull or Rottweiler, well, it kind of gets your attention and reignites the whole debate over banning aggressive breeds. A case in Los Angeles is doing just that.

Here's Dan Simon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is the 150-pound Rottweiler that attacked and killed a baby girl near Los Angeles, leaving officers and paramedics at the scene speechless.

LORENZ: From what I understand from some of the personnel that were there, they said it was one of the most horrific things they've seen.

SIMON: What provoked the dog isn't clear, though some speculate that the baby's crying set the dog off. The animal belongs to the baby's grandparents. Her mother had gone to her folk's place to check on the dog while they were out of town. Authorities say the Rottweiler snatched the baby, a 16-month-old right, right out of her mother's arms.

LORENZ: I understand the child was mauled over her entire body with severe head and facial trauma.

SIMON (on camera): The dog, now under quarantine at the Pasadena Humane Society, will most likely be put down. Here in California, the tragedy has reignited the emotional debate on whether certain breeds should be banned. (voice-over): The fiery dialogue has mostly centered around pit bulls, a type of dog not officially recognized as a breed, though they've gained a reputation for being the nation's deadliest dogs. Miami, Cincinnati and Denver have passed laws that make owning them illegal. The penalties can be stiff. Get caught in Denver and the fine could be a thousand bucks, plus a year in jail.

State law prevents California cities from targeting specific breeds, something San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom would like to see changed.

MAYOR GAVIN NEWSOM, SAN FRANCISCO: I think it's time that we get serious about pit bulls in this city, we get serious about pit bulls in this state, and we get serious about pit bulls across the United States of America.

SIMON: San Francisco, the setting of the high-profile mauling four years ago in which a husband and wife were convicted of contributing to the death of a college lacrosse coach killed by their two presa canario dogs.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There was blood soaked in the hallway approximately 20 to 30 feet in the carpet.

SIMON: But it wasn't until this past June, when a 12-year-old boy there was killed by a pit bull, that California leaders began calling for fundamental change.

CARL FRIEDMAN, SAN FRANCISCO ANIMAL CONTROL: Pit bulls are a problem. Let's not shy away from that. Let's not put our heads in the sand.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who's a good boy?

SIMON: But pit bull owners say breed-specific bans amount to dog discrimination.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think it's right to punish all pit bulls for things that certain ones have done. As we say, punish the deed, not the breed.

SIMON: And a study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control suggested that laws targeting dog owner who fail to train their pets properly were more effective than out right bans on certain breeds.

JILL KESSLER, ROTTWEILER RESCUE: If they don't feel that someone is clearly in control, they will take over. They have no qualms about being the pack leader.

SIMON: Jill Kessler, who trains and rescues Rottweilers, is aware of the danger, but says banning the breed is far from the solution.

KESSLER: It's just as discriminatory if we had done that to an ethnic group in any city.

SIMON: Strong words on both sides, and the chorus can be expected to only grow louder as long as tragedies like the one involving this dog, continue to occur.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: That was Dan Simon reporting for us today. There was a funeral for little Cassandra Garcia. Joining me now, attorney and ASPCA lobbyist Debra Bresch, who is here with her pit bull May. Good of you to join us.

DEBRA BRESCH, ASPCA LOBBYIST: Thank you.

ZAHN: We know that three-quarters of the injuries, people, you know, bitten by dogs, happen from the family pet. How do you defend what happened to Cassandra?

BRESCH: Well, I can't necessarily defend what happened to Cassandra. I don't know the exact circumstance of what occurred. I'd like to know whether the dog was neutered, whether the dog was regularly inside the home as opposed to outside the home.

I mean, dogs are characterized as the family pet, may not in fact be inside the home. Often, people think they're being loving owners or guardians and they keep the dog chained out in the backyard. I think those are relevant facts.

ZAHN: So, you're not telling me tonight that the dog has nothing to do with the death of Cassandra?

BRESCH: Not at all. The question is, is whether the dog was well socialized or not and was or -- and was in fact, a family pet.

ZAHN: What the Centers for Disease Control is now saying -- and we can take a look at statistics on the screen -- that the majority of the people who were bitten, they found that pit bulls, Rottweilers and German Shepherds bite more often than any other breed. So, what do you do about that?

BRESCH: Well, I guess I would have to question that characterization of the statistics. The Centers for Disease Control in fact actually says that their statistics are suspect, based on the way in which the statistics were collected, from news reports. There's a question of whether these dogs can be properly identified in all circumstances. Those are big issues in determining whether a particular dog actually -- or a particular breed of dog actually attacked.

ZAHN: But are you denying that there's a problem altogether?

BRESCH: No.

ZAHN: Or should people really be concerned about these three breeds of dogs? If you feel the numbers are totally doctored, or if not doctored, not manipulated, that they aren't a fair representation of what's going on out there, do you at least concede that they represent a safety hazard?

BRESCH: I'm not -- well, they're big dogs. And so, if there's going to be a dangerous Rottweiler, dangerous pit bull, they're going to be able to do a lot of damage. But I'm not necessarily willing to concede that these breeds in particular, cause a -- pose a particular hazard.

We don't know how many dogs out there of these breeds there are, and that's a huge issue. These are very popular dogs now. So, in fact, as a fraction of the total number of dogs, they may not pose a greater hazard than other breeds. We really recommend a breed-neutral approach to dangerous dogs.

ZAHN: How do you feel about restrictions put on certain breeds -- fence laws, leash laws, muzzle laws?

BRESCH: Well, we don't support those particular -- good containment is always important. Dogs should not be running at large, any dog and particularly dangerous dogs.

But dangerous dogs can be of any breed. There's a bill right now being considered in California, that would allow cities to spay and neuter there -- to require the spaying and neutering of these dogs and impose breeding requirements.

The ASPCA is considering its position on that right now. Carl Friedman, at Animal Control in San Francisco, does feel that he has a specifically a pit bull problem in terms of over-population that he needs to contain.

ZAHN: Sure. Well, there's certainly enough of these problems around the country that's causing a very spirited debate and May, you're doing all right with a bunch of strange things going on -- with lights and strange people and strange smells in here. Thank you for dropping by tonight. Appreciate it.

BRESCH: No problem.

ZAHN: In a minute, a side of Peter Jennings you seldom got to see on the air.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNINGS: On "World News Tonight," we don't have the vaguest idea of what we're going to do, but we'll try to make it as interesting as we can.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Trust me, it gets better than that and funnier. Peter had quite a sense of humor and we'll have some great examples of it on the other side.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: And LARRY KING LIVE is coming up at 9:00, where he remembers a friend and colleague in Peter Jennings tonight. Hi, Larry.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST, LARRY KING LIVE: Hi, Paula. Sure do. We have quite a show. Barbara Walters, Dan Rather and Tom Brokaw will be with us for the full hour, discussing the late Peter Jennings -- hard to say that, the late Peter Jennings.

And we'll be taking phone calls from viewers around the world. Peter Jennings remembered by three of the best -- Walters, Brokaw and Rather. All tonight at 9:00 Eastern, Paula.

ZAHN: And what a legacy he leaves, not only his body of work, but his family and the impact he had on a lot of us who worked with him over the years.

See you at 9:00, Larry.

KING: Incredible (ph) guy.

ZAHN: He was. Thank you.

KING: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: Still ahead, a side of Peter Jennings we shouldn't forget, either, the lighter side, the genuinely warm and funny side.

But first, about nine minutes before the hour, let's check in with Erica Hill of HEADLINE NEWS.

HILL: Thanks, Paula.

Americans are becoming increasingly skeptical about the Iraq war. That's according to the latest CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. Fifty- seven percent of respondents do not feel Iraq has made the U.S. safer. Two months ago, the opposite was true. Meantime, 54 percent now believe it was a mistake to send troops there, an 8 percent increase in the last month. And senior U.S. officials tell CNN tonight, sophisticated bombs, rather, found in southern Iraq were actually smuggled there from Iran, possibly for use by insurgents.

Crash investigators have now ruled out engine problems in the Air France crash in Toronto last week. Flight data recorders indicate the engine control systems worked just as they should have. The focus now is on the weather.

And speaking of weather, NASA planning now a Wednesday morning launch for an unmanned mission to Mars. The orbiter could send back more information than ever about the ancient seas that once covered it.

And a government study shows an 81 percent increase in motorcycle fatalities after Florida repealed its helmet law. Only 20 states and the District of Columbia require protective helmets. Who knows? Maybe that will change after that study.

Paula, that's the latest for us. We'll hand it back over to you in New York.

ZAHN: We'll see. Thanks, Erica.

Coming up next, an obscure restaurant, an admiring waitress, but which famous anchorman?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD BREWSTER, CO-AUTHOR, "THE CENTURY": She said, has anybody ever told you that you look exactly like Tom Brokaw? And Peter looked up and said, all the time, madam, all the time.

JENNINGS: Share a little bit of the celebration...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Coming up next, Peter Jennings. Many admirers look back on his life and especially his sense of humor. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: A few more words tonight about Peter Jennings. He kept a very cool, almost formal air about him when he anchored, so you didn't necessarily always see his sense of humor. But I think his great sense of humor is a very powerful way to remember him. Here's Jeanne -- excuse me, Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You've seen him in his trench coat, his safari look, his flak jacket.

(on camera): How did he strike you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was a real mensch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think what I liked about him, he didn't do the chit-chat nonsense.

MOOS (voice-over): His chit-chat always seemed significant, whether he was sitting on the floor with Iran's ayatollah, or with American kids.

Over at ABC, Diane Sawyer's eyes were brimming. His colleagues referred to the empty "World News Tonight" set.

GIBSON: That's Peter's chair.

MOOS: As if it were the equivalent of JFK's riderless horse.

They say Peter Jennings took the news seriously, but not himself.

DIANE SAWYER, ABC NEWS: Just before you'd go on the air, as we all know, he would say, are you going to wear that?

MOOS: His own wardrobe malfunctions never made it on the air.

JENNINGS: This is Peter Jennings, ABC News, Cairo.

1:12, huh? Do you want to do another in the -- in -- what are you doing? MOOS: How many network anchors end up being immortalized as an animated puppet?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Team America has once again (EXPLETIVE DELETED) off the entire world.

MOOS: He was known for serious news, but Jennings wasn't above getting painted at an Indian festival...

JENNINGS: Happy Holi.

MOOS: ... or even doing the macarena. Or spoofing one of those news promos they say he hated to do.

JENNINGS: On "World News Tonight," we don't have the vaguest idea of what we're going to do, but we'll try to make it as interesting as we can. We'll use a lot of stock film, some of which you have seen before. But we'll try to run it backwards, or sometimes just going the other way across the screen, so that you will think you're getting something truly fresh.

I hope you will join us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was long.

JENNINGS: It was long?

MOOS: He made women's eyes twinkle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good-looking.

TED KOPPEL, ANCHOR, "NIGHTLINE": He was a stunningly handsome man. Bore a not slight resemblance to Roger Moore during the time that he was playing 007.

ROGER MOORE, ACTOR: My name is Bond, James Bond.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jennings, Peter Jennings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could see him drink a martini, no question.

MOOS: He was the last of the big three anchors.

TOM BROKAW, FORMER NBC NEWS ANCHOR: People often ask, are you friends? And Peter said, yes, we are friends, because we don't see each other that often.

MOOS: And Jennings was humble enough that he didn't take offense when a waitress spotted him and said this...

BREWSTER: Has anybody ever told you that you look exactly like Tom Brokaw? And Peter looked up and said, all the time, madam, all the time.

MOOS: He came a long way from Miss Canada.

JENNINGS: First runner-up will take over. The first runner-up, Joan Clarkin from Montreal. Miss Canada, 1965, Linda Douma!

Oh, that is -- I used to think you and I were friends. Oh, my God almighty.

MOOS: At least that's someone he never mistook himself for.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: Jeanne Moos on Peter Jennings.

There's a wide range of personalities and styles in this business. Peter Jennings embodied the best of them all -- professional, hard-working, impeccably prepared. He was committed to getting and reporting the news in its greatest depth possible.

Before we go, there is one last picture I want to show you that Jeanne gave you a glimpse of. It's Peter Jennings' empty anchor chair tonight. He can never be replaced, but his memory will remain an inspiration to us all, particularly those of us who were fortunate to work with him along the way. Peter, thank you for that.

CNN prime-time continues now with LARRY KING LIVE. Good night.

END

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com

Search
© 2007 Cable News Network.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us. Site Map.
Offsite Icon External sites open in new window; not endorsed by CNN.com
Pipeline Icon Pay service with live and archived video. Learn more
Radio News Icon Download audio news  |  RSS Feed Add RSS headlines