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Nancy Grace for August 9, 2005, CNNHN
Aired August 9, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news, a fugitive on the run after his wife opens fire, killing a sheriff`s deputy outside the county courthouse, Kingston, Tennessee. On the run, fugitive George Hyatte and wife, Jennifer Hyatte.
Also tonight, live to Aruba, day 72 -- 72 -- since 18-year-old Natalee Holloway vanished into thin air off her high school senior trip. Natalee`s mother takes on suspect Deepak Kalpoe. Are Kalpoe and his brother headed back to jail in connection with Natalee`s disappearance? Will prime suspect and judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot walk free September 4? And tonight, has the state`s chief witness disappeared?
Also tonight, 26-year-old George Smith`s honeymoon-turned-nightmare. Ten days after a lavish wedding ceremony, he disappears off a luxury cruise ship. Now, no trace of the groom, just blood on the boat. Is it a murder at high sea?
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, an alleged murder on the high seas. George Smith and his bride ~on a honeymoon cruise, Somewhere between Greece and Turkey, groom goes missing.
Also, live to Aruba, day 72 in the Natalee Holloway disappearance. Has the state`s chief witness disappeared? And now Natalee`s mother takes matters into her own hands, picking up where Aruban police dropped the ball, taking on suspect Deepak Kalpoe herself.
But first, breaking news tonight. A woman opens fire at the county courthouse, gunning down the sheriff`s deputy in order to free her husband. Tonight they are on the lam. In Kingston, Tennessee, WNOX-FM reporter Christine Jessel and Roane County sheriff David Haggard. In New York, defense attorney Richard Herman. In Seattle, defense attorney Anne Bremner. In LA, psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall.
But first, let`s go to CNN correspondent on the scene, David Mattingly. David, bring us up to date.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, the question all day long has been, Where are they? George Hyatte made good his escape after his wife opened fire in the parking lot of the courthouse behind me, killing one of the corrections officer who was escorting him to a van where he was to be taken back to jail. Now, in the gunfire exchange that occurred after that, the couple took off in a getaway car. There were bullets all over the place. The investigators behind me -- we`re going to let you take a closer look. We`re going to move into the parking lot right now to show you what was going on.
Investigators have been out there all afternoon long. You see the car, the little sports car sitting in the middle of the road. That was one car that actually apparently took a bullet during this exchange of gunfire. And over on the right, I want to call your attention to that white van marked "101." That is the van that the suspect was supposed to be put back into when his wife interrupted the process, shooting one of the correction officers.
Now, as this firefight continued, it is believed that one of the suspects was wounded in this exchange. That`s because they found the getaway car that they ditched a short ways away from here. When they looked inside, they found a large amount of fresh blood, suggesting possibly that the wife, who was driving, was hit during this gunfire exchange. So it`s possible she may be in need of medical attention. So that gives something -- police something else to go on when they start looking for where this couple might be -- Nancy.
GRACE: Dave, take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a manhunt on for two individuals, Jennifer Hyatte, who is George Hyatte, the prisoner -- it is his wife. She was in court with him this morning. When the correctional officer brought him out, was loading him back up, a dark-colored SUV appeared behind the van. Mr. Hyatte hollered, Shoot him. She opened up fire on the officers, hitting one in the abdomen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Age 31, white female, Jennifer Hyatte, red hair, hazel eyes, 5-4, 142 pounds. George Hyatte, black male, 34 years old, shaved head, 5- 5, 140 pounds. These two are armed and dangerous.
Back to Dave Mattingly. Dave, this has been planned a long time. In fact, I`ve been taking a look at this guy`s record, Dave. Let`s go back to Dave Mattingly there on the scene, Elizabeth. This guy just got sentenced to 35 years behind bars, Dave. Today, he was in court to take a six-year plea on yet another robbery. Long story short, when his wife pulled up in a dark-colored SUV, he yells out, Open fire. This thing had been planned. I think this plea deal today was all a big ruse to get to the county courthouse, David.
MATTINGLY: Probably was. No telling how long it might have been planned, but they carried it off smoothly and efficiently, killing one of the correction officers, who was doing his job, in this process.
What you did not mention about her was that she was a former prison nurse, according to state officials. They say that she actually lost her job when she began a romantic relationship with this man when he was behind bars. They later got married. How long they have been together, planning this operation, who knows. But it is something that they definitely did not cook up on the spur of the moment here.
Again, she may have been wounded because she was on the driver`s side, and that`s where they found the blood in the getaway car. She is probably badly in need of medical attention right now. They`re hoping that she will be the one that eventually tips them off to where this couple might have gone.
GRACE: I want to go out to Sheriff David Haggard. He is with the Roane County sheriff`s office today. A deputy sheriff has fallen in the line of duty. This guy we`re looking for tonight, George Hyatte, was fully shackled, Sheriff -- fully shackled. And what that means to me, as a former prosecutor -- he was handcuffed, legiron, and had a waist chain, as well. Is that correct?
SHERIFF DAVID HAGGARD, ROANE COUNTY, TENNESSEE: That`s correct. That was not a Roane County deputy sheriff that was killed, that was a Tennessee Department of Corrections corrections officer. There was two of them that transported this person from the prison down to the courtroom today. And when he`s fully shackled, he`s even got what`s called a black box on the handcuffs, and it`s got a padlock on the black box. So you actually have to unlock a padlock, take the black box off to use a handcuff key to open the handcuffs. And it`s attached to the waist chain. And of course, you`ve got leg shackles, too.
GRACE: Well, Sheriff Haggard, this is not his first escape. Back in 2002, this same guy made a shank behind bars. Everybody, that is a homemade knife made behind bars. he cut two sheriffs and went from his jail cell all the way down to southwest Florida. With that in mind, 2002 escape, Sheriff, how did this happen?
HAGGARD: Well, it was a pre-planned event, apparently. And like I said, this was an event that -- this girl, the wife, being a former corrections officer and a nurse in the constructional facility, pretty well knows the system. And they had it arranged to where she would be in the parking lot when he come out of the courthouse, to where she could attack the corrections officers.
GRACE: The officer that was taken down, he is a corrections officer, as the sheriff so kindly pointed out. His name, Wayne Cotton Morgan (ph), 56 years old. He was airlifted to the hospital. He didn`t make it. He was declared dead there in Knoxville -- 56 years old. I`m sure he`s leaving a family behind.
Very quickly, to Bethany Marshall. Bethany, let`s talk for a moment. Number one, this guy has already escaped in 2002.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Right.
GRACE: He showed no hesitation to pull a shank on a female guard and a male guard -- 2002. Goes from Dayton, Tennessee, in 24 hours, Bethany -- 24 hours! -- this guy outsmarts police and makes it all the way down to southwest Florida from Dayton, Tennessee. Now, how did this guy manage to hoodwink not only the local law enforcement, but this woman, as well, to help him bust out? She`s the one that shot the deputy sheriff. They`re both looking at the Tennessee death penalty now.
MARSHALL: Well, she`s homicidal, as well. The interesting thing about these prison romances is that these hardened criminals somehow attract women who are actually identified with the criminal`s crimes. It`s as if, unconsciously, there`s a homicidal person in her that was waiting to pop out.
And here`s the thing about people who kill other people. Usually, they feel that some loss has befallen them and that it is everybody else`s fault. So here her loss is that her husband is going to be in jail for a longer period of time, and whose fault is it? The correction officers, the jail. It`s everybody else`s fault but his. And unfortunately, I think these two could go on a crime spree.
GRACE: Now, when you say they could go on a crime spree, why do you say that?
MARSHALL: Because all of their wish to kill, to assault, to burglar, all of that has gotten unleashed, and they`re going to egg each other on, and they`re going to get away with as much as they can while they`re on the lam. These are not two people who have a conscience. These are not two people who have a respect for the rules of society. They`re going to want to do as much as they can with the brief freedom that they`ve bought.
GRACE: Well, you know, Sheriff Haggard, I think she`s right. With us on the scene, Sheriff David Haggard. He`s with the Roane County sheriff`s office. OK, Sheriff, if we take a look at what we know about these two, he was already behind bars on a 35-year sentence for robbery. Then he`s coming today for a sweet deal, six years on another robbery to be tacked on. We know he had nine years left before he could come up for parole. Rather than do nine years for parole, she busts him out today, taking down an officer. What do we know about her, Sheriff?
HAGGARD: Well, like I said, we know that she is a licensed practical nurse, and she worked at Lake County correctional facility, where she met this man. So she`s a former corrections officer, so she knows procedures through the Department of Corrections.
Now, to clarify something there, local law enforcement usually does not have prior notification when prisoners are being transported into a courtroom. Sometimes we are asked for assistance, you know, in some cases. But normally, the Department of Correction has their own officers who transport people in on given court dates. So therefore, it`s common practice for them to come and go during the court session, when criminal court is in session, so...
GRACE: Very quickly, let me go to Anne Bremner. You know, Anne Bremner, we just saw a similar incident in the Atlanta courthouse, where Brian Nichols took down the judge, Rowland Barnes, the court reporter and a sheriff, Deputy Teasley, who once guarded my courtroom as a prosecutor. We can talk all day about security at the courthouse. But what`s your assessment?
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, you know, we had two in Seattle, Nancy. We had one in our courthouse, where we had a litigant shot and killed. And we just had one in our federal courthouse, almost, where the police had to shoot somebody, where he had, basically, explosives. You know, it`s like "Natural Born Killers." I kept thinking Bonnie and Clyde or Caril Fugate and Charlie Starkweather, remember, from that movie, but that was a real case.
There could be a crime spree. And I think -- we always talk about how the system needs a heart, Nancy, but the system needs a heart for law enforcement. I represent police officers. You`ve been a DA. I`ve been a DA. And they need to have a lot more protection because these cases are happening far, far too often.
GRACE: Today, a press conference went down following a very daring escape in which a corrections officer lost his life. This guy`s wife came out guns a-blazing, took an officer down with her. Take a listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We did find the vehicle that they escaped in. It is a blue Explorer SUV. There is blood in the driver`s side. The other correctional officer did get a shot off, apparently striking one of the individuals. We don`t know which one yet, but it appears that most of the blood is on the driver`s side. Then apparently then got in another vehicle, which is probably going to be a golden-color SUV or a van. And at this time, we are looking for them statewide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Let`s go Richard Herman, defense attorney. Richard, you have defended many, many homicides and robberies. This guy, I`m sure, has ditched his vehicle again, just like Brian Nichols out of Atlanta. Nichols had ditched, I think, three to four vehicles before they finally got him. This guy left in a SUV, we believe now, Chevy Ventura, gold in color. What you to think, same vehicle, different vehicle?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Probably the same. But Nancy, he`s going to have to be Houdini to get out of all those shackles he was in. And you know, just looking -- I`ve never been on scene here, but looking at the video that you`ve put up, the transfer area looks like it`s directly in front of the courthouse, where the public can just pull right up. How do they not have a private area to transport these prisoners? I don`t understand.
GRACE: Let`s go Christine Jessel of WNOX-FM. Tell me what`s going on with the search for these two, Christine.
CHRISTINE JESSEL, NEWS DIR., WNOX-FM 100.3: Right now, it`s been transferred over to the TBI. Local authorities are still involved. We have every single state authority on this case, working to find where this van may be. They`re checking all of the exits. There are patrol officers at all of the exits throughout Tennessee, trying to find where this van might have gone.
GRACE: And Christine, the wife, the wife -- the wife -- Jennifer Hyatte, had recently been fired. Fill me in.
JESSEL: Actually, yes, she had. It sounds like they`d been together at the prison, that she had headed out of there, and it looks now like they`re -- they`re just working to find these two people. It sounds like they did have a connection. We haven`t been told very many details on exactly how their relationship transpired. And at this point, the -- again, the TBI, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, is really working to try to put those details together and find out just what may have happened that these two met and ended up at this scene at the courthouse today.
GRACE: Everyone, the last time this guy broke out, 2002, he made it from Dayton, Tennessee, all the way down to southwest Florida in 24 hours. Guarantee you, he`s in a different vehicle and he`s on his way out of state, out of the state of Tennessee, leaving behind him a dead corrections officer.
And tonight, another breaking news story. The mystery intensifies surrounding the deaths of an entire family. San Diego County sheriff`s deputies found the bodies of a mother and two young sons this morning in a residential community just outside San Diego. Tonight, the county homicide unit investigates.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. THOMAS BENNETT, SAN DIEGO COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: She had come by over the last few days. She had noticed that the dogs hadn`t been fed. She had noticed that mail was building up. Normally, her relationship with her family is very, very close. They talk on a regular basis. And she hadn`t heard from them for about a week now. So obviously, there were several indicators that caused her some concern, and that`s when she called the sheriff`s department.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: If you have any information on this crime, please call the San Diego County sheriff`s office, 858-974-2222.
GRACE: Today, a breakout at a Tennessee county courthouse, one corrections officer dead. On the lam tonight, a husband-and-wife team. If "Bonnie and Clyde" rings a bell in your mind, think Jennifer and George Hyatte. They are on the lam tonight, armed and dangerous. Possible Jennifer Hyatte has been wounded. Fresh blood was found in one of the vehicles they left the courthouse in, in the driver`s seat. We know she was driving. Why? He was fully shackled, shackled at the hand, the foot and the waist.
Very quickly, let`s go straight back to Christine Jessel. Christine, the last time this guy escaped, 2002, he made it from Dayton, Tennessee, all the way down to west -- southwest Florida in 24 hours. Where do they think this guy is headed?
JESSEL: At this point, they don`t know. They`re saying that he has relatives maybe in Georgia. She has relatives in a nearby town, very close. They`re thinking it`s possible that they could be headed in either of these directions. But again, they just don`t know.
GRACE: OK, Christine...
JESSEL: They`re going to try to follow as many leads as they can.
GRACE: Christine, what was he pleading to today, a robbery?
JESSEL: Aggravated robbery.
GRACE: Aggravated robbery. That means with a gun...
GRACE: ... and possible human damage. OK, what was he already in for, another robbery, 35-year sentence on another robbery?
JESSEL: Yes. That`s what we understand.
GRACE: What can you tell me about the victim? Is he leaving behind a family tonight?
JESSEL: At this point, yes, he is leaving behind a family, and he is leaving behind a community that is very upset. This is a very tight-knit, close community. All of them -- everyone here knows each other. Everyone says they`re praying for him tonight.
GRACE: That corrections officer just 56 years old, Wayne Cotton Morgan, gunned down the line of duty today. On the lam, George and Jennifer Hyatte. We know they are armed. There`s a shot of the victim.
Very quickly, to "Trial Tracking." Charles McCoy, Jr. (ph), the sniper who terrorized Ohio highways for months, pleads guilty. McCoy dropped his insanity defense he used first time around at trial that ended in a hung jury, 8 to 4. He faces decades behind bars for the shootings, but the judge says he`ll recommend McCoy serves his time in the mental health wing. He got 27 years behind bars today. Responsible for the death of Gail Nicely (ph), driving to a doctor`s appointment when McCoy randomly shot her.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES MCCOY, JR., CONFESSED HIGHWAY SNIPER: I would like to say I`m sorry to the Nicely family for their loss I caused them, sorry to Mrs. Cox (ph). When I heard that 911 tape, I felt the pain and suffering!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: You are looking at exclusive hidden video that first aired on NBC. This is the confrontation between Beth Twitty, Natalee`s mother, and Deepak Kalpoe. Where the police left off, she`s picking up the ball they dropped, confronting Kalpoe. Can you imagine, at your wit`s end, her 18- year-old girl still missing, and she`s got to go confront a suspect?
Tonight, in Aruba, Natalee`s mother is with us, Beth Twitty. Jossy Mansur, with "Diario" newspaper. But very quickly, first to WBMA-TV reporter Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasiya, bring us up to date, friend.
ANASTASIYA BOLTON, WBMA-TV: Nancy, actually, Deepak filed harassment charges against Beth Twitty after she made that visit to him yesterday. As you saw in the video, she visited Deepak. She offered him $250,000 for any information leading to Natalee`s whereabouts. I`m told he did not talk to her. He did not really look her in the eyes. So today he went to the police department, we`re told, and filed harassment charges. So now she needs to stay away from him, is what we`re told.
Now, his employer, his boss, said that Beth is welcome at the Internet cafe anytime to surf the Internet but she is not welcome there to talk to Deepak or harass him because, she says, he is innocent.
GRACE: And what can you tell me about Joran Van Der Sloot showing up in court tomorrow?
BOLTON: Joran Van Der Sloot is scheduled in court tomorrow morning because his attorneys are still fighting the FBI`s involvement in this case. If you remember, the judge on Friday ruled to continue allowing FBI access to the files and interrogations in this case. Now the attorneys are back in court tomorrow, fighting that decision from the judge, still asking the judge to block FBI`s access to the files.
GRACE: And tell me what`s going on at the landfill tonight, Anastasiya.
BOLTON: At the landfill tonight -- as you know, the Texas Equusearch has pulled out yesterday, but an Aruban search and rescue operation are back at the landfill, checking out leads and still searching. As far as we know, they have not found anything yet.
GRACE: Anastasiya, with WBMA, can you tell me anything about the possibility the Kalpoe brothers will go back to jail?
BOLTON: Well, that`s a million-dollar question, Nancy. Here`s the deal. The key witness in this case, the gardener, has come up missing. Nobody can find the man. The judge ordered this gardener in by tomorrow to give sworn testimony that he saw the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot in the car near the racquet club, 2:30 AM the night Natalee Holloway went missing. The judge -- the gardener has been subpoenaed. Nancy, they can`t find him. They can`t serve the subpoena. So they can`t find the man who would point the finger at the Kalpoe brothers and potentially, if that sworn testimony is obtained, could get them back in jail.
GRACE: We`re about to go straight down to Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee`s mother. Stay with us.
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts. And this is your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."
A suicide car bombing in central Baghdad is being blamed for the deaths of one U.S. soldier and three civilians. The vehicle was detonated near a U.S. convoy. Also today, 10 Iraqi police officers were killed in a series of drive-by shootings in Baghdad, in Baquba.
The Federal Reserve is pushing borrowing costs to their highest point in nearly four years. Policymakers raised the key federal funds rate a quarter point to 3.5 percent. And they say more rate hikes are likely to follow in an effort to prevent a rebounding economy from triggering unwanted inflation.
It`s something you see in the movies. That`s how authorities in Brazil are describing the biggest bank heist in the country`s history. Thieves stole a whopping $68 million over the weekend. Police say they did it by digging a tunnel that extends two city blocks. The suspects are apparently still on the loose.
That is the news for now. Thanks for joining us. I`m Thomas Roberts. We take you back for more of NANCY GRACE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: You know, I need to remind him of all of the lies that he has told, from the Holiday Inn drop- off, how Natalee got out of the car, stumbled, fell, hit her head, the two security guards came up to help her, this beach drop-off at the Marriott, absolutely just another lie.
I asked him how he could continue to do this and not give answers. I mean, we`re here and we`re ready. He knows I`ve been here almost three months, and I`m not going away, and this is not going away.
He said the media has never seen this side of me. And I said, "I`ve been saving it just for you, Deepak."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: that is Beth Holloway Twitty, Natalee`s mother. She is with us tonight. You were just seeing video, secretly recorded video from NBC, where she actually confronted one of the Kalpoes, Deepak Kalpoe.
Beth, thank you for being with us tonight.
TWITTY: Thank you, Nancy. You know, Nancy, I thought it was so interesting when I just heard that played back, as when Deepak told me, he said, "The media`s never seen this side of you." And, you know what I was thinking as I was sitting here is, he`s seen me answer question, after question, after question.
But, you know, Nancy? Deepak has never seen me ask question after question. And I think that must be where he was coming from, from that statement.
GRACE: What made you decide to go and question him yourself?
TWITTY: Just desperate for answers. I feel as if -- you know, we have this reward money, you know, ready to be utilized, the $250,000 for her whereabouts, the million dollars for her safe return. I can just only hope that I`m trying to reach everyone. And I felt Deepak would be a great person for me to make contact with.
I`ve never spoken with him. And I just was giving him every opportunity to answer me and to clear his name. And, you know, I can`t imagine being able to -- have been in the position he was in to stand face- to-face with me, Natalee`s mother, and to at least to attempt to deny -- you know, I`m just shocked that he would not have taken advantage of that opportunity. I guess he cannot deny anything.
GRACE: Beth, I agree with you. If he is innocent and he knows nothing about what happened to Natalee, certainly he would say, "Ms. Twitty, I`m so sorry. I wish I could help you. I wish I knew something that could help you. But this is what happened that night."
He`s too afraid to even put it out there, a version of what happened, Beth.
TWITTY: I know. And never even any attempt at a denial. I mean, just only -- I only saw pretty much the scalp, the top of his head, and his eyelids. I mean, he would not -- in the 90 minutes I was there, I could not get him to -- I would have to ask him repeatedly, "Please look at me."
And just gave him so many opportunities. I was just -- you know, it was -- I just was shocked that he would not want to take advantage of that.
GRACE: So, Beth, he wouldn`t even look at you?
TWITTY: He would only remain silent.
GRACE: He wouldn`t even look you in the face?
TWITTY: I had to ask him repeatedly for the first hour to please look at me when you`re speaking with me, or when I`m speaking with you. I, you know, was just begging him that we need some answers and didn`t get anywhere.
GRACE: I want to go to Bethany Marshall very quickly. Bethany, this is incredible, in my mind, behavioral evidence. I`ve seen it a million times in court. I saw it as a crime victim myself, when the defendant could not even raise his head and look up at the victim.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: It`s true. I mean, the fact that he had nothing to say in my mind is clear evidence that he was one of the perpetrators of this crime.
And the statement that he said, "The media has never seen this side of you," I think what he`s really doing is poking blame at Beth Twitty instead of saying, "I`ve never revealed what I need to reveal to the media."
And this is what perpetrators do. They blame everybody else. And Beth Twitty, you have my total respect. You are refocusing everybody on what`s most important, the story holes.
GRACE: I want to go back to Beth Twitty. Beth, it`s amazing to me he wouldn`t even look you in the face. But now, to top it all off, some kind of bogus harassment charge against you?
I didn`t hear you cursing at him, yelling at him. You didn`t leap across the table and try to grab him. Harassment? I`m sorry, don`t they have free speech down there?
TWITTY: You know, Nancy, and I was so careful. And I even took about the first 10 minutes -- it may have been 15 minutes when I entered the Internet cafe, too. I remained silent. I really wanted to be in complete control before I began asking him any questions because I would never want to jeopardize or put myself in a position that would be a question of any sort.
So I really -- that was a struggle for me. I really had to pull it together so I could remain very calm, and I did not have any intention brought to myself, from the other customers in there. I, you know, just proceeded so carefully before I began.
GRACE: And, Beth, what was running through your head while you`re there questioning a guy you think is involved in your girl`s disappearance?
TWITTY: Running through my mind was -- I just felt like he was going to at least give me something, even a denial. I mean, absolutely nothing.
And then, when I would ask him about the money, I thought this was a strange response. I said, you know -- I kept, you know, making sure that we`re aware of the money, you could remain anonymous.
When I said the $250,000 for her whereabouts or the million for her safe return, he just replied to me -- he said he didn`t need any money. And I thought that was an odd answer, he doesn`t need any money.
GRACE: You know, it was...
TWITTY: Seems like it would have been something...
GRACE: Yes, it seems like most people would want to help you with or without a money reward.
Speaking of helping Beth, let`s go Jossy Mansur. Jossy, do you think the Kalpoe brothers will be taken back in custody, and where is the gardener? We`ve got to find the gardener to give a statement before the Kalpoes can be arrested.
JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, we`ve been searching for the gardener ourselves. We`ve been told that he may be in protective custody. We`ve been told that he`s gone Colombia. We`ve been told many stories. But, up to now, we haven`t been able to find him.
GRACE: OK, protective custody, that makes absolutely no sense because that`s who wants him, the government. If he were in custody, he`d be giving a statement.
Speaking of other countries, Venezuela is a very short distance away from Aruba. Here`s a shot of how easily it would be for him to leave this island. I mean, Jossy, the island is only 19 miles long. Where could this guy be?
MANSUR: I have no idea. I know that the closest point between us and Venezuela is 15 nautical miles. That`s Cabo San Roman. You can even see it on very clear days.
GRACE: Back to Beth Twitty. Beth, these papers that Deepak Kalpoe has filed against you, what are they?
TWITTY: Nancy, I`ll be honest. I haven`t seen anything. No one has presented me with any papers.
I have no knowledge. And I`ve heard about this, but I haven`t received any. I haven`t read any. So I`m out on that one, Nancy.
GRACE: Back to Jossy Mansur. Jossy, are you familiar with the source stating -- do you know that the Kalpoe brother, Deepak Kalpoe, has actually filed harassment charges against Beth?
MANSUR: No, I don`t think he filed harassment charges. He went to the police today, and he presented what we call in Aruba a complaint. What he was complaining about was that Beth came to him, raised her voice at him when she was talking, intimidated him, and threatened him, which, from what I understand from the recordings and from Beth, is absolutely another lie.
GRACE: And that`s what we here in America call a complaint or a charge, when you go to police and swear out a complaint on someone.
Beth, I saw the video. I didn`t hear you yelling, cursing, intimidating him. Beth, how big are you?
TWITTY: Well, I`m a little bigger than Deepak. But I hope that wasn`t -- I hope that wasn`t it.
GRACE: Well, I`ve got to tell you something: You don`t look threatening to me tonight.
Another issue is, are they going to somehow restrict you from speaking to him or going to Internet cafe?
TWITTY: You know, Nancy, like I said, I have not seen anything, so, until I can, you know, read the complaint that is presented, then I`ll go from there. But I just have not gotten anything.
GRACE: The Internet cafe has issued a statement. Now, catch this. Beth Holloway Twitty, down there looking for her daughter, and they say, "Beth is welcome at the store to use the Internet, but not welcome to come in and harass Deepak."
You know what? There`s a nerve right there. They should be issuing a statement saying how they`re trying to help you find your daughter. So, Beth, where do you go from here?
TWITTY: Well, I think what I have to do, though, is I really think that it`s important to have Natalee`s poster in the window. I mean, we are -- these posters are important. They need to be -- when we place them in a store, we really would like for them to remain there.
I asked Deepak why her poster had been taken down. And I`d have to verify if it was the manager or his boss that told Deepak that he had to take it down. That really saddens me.
You know, we`re doing everything we can in order to get this word out. And we really need them to remain up. If they allow us to place them in the beginning, they need to remain there. We always ask permission before we place these.
GRACE: And we asked for Deepak Kalpoe and his family or his lawyers to come on tonight. Surprise, surprise, they didn`t want to answer any questions.
But I want to confirm to you the reward. It is $1 million, $1 million for Natalee`s safe return, $250,000 for her whereabouts. Her mother, Beth Holloway Twitty, needs your help.
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DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: We don`t know the whole story. All we really know for a fact is they left Charlie -- or Carlos and Charlie`s. After that, it`s a lot of speculation and a lot of fill-in-the- blanks.
If you and I were involved in something, and then I come to you and ask you to make up a story about, "We dropped her off at the Holiday Inn," wouldn`t you ask questions of why, if you were not involved in something? Why would you make up this story?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Today, a daring escape from a Tennessee courthouse. A wife blasts her husband free, taking the life of a corrections officer. Wanted: Jennifer Hyatte, age 31, white female, red hair, hazel eyes; also, her husband, George Hyatte, 34, black male, shaved head.
These two are armed. Hyatte`s already made one escape. Before this, 2002, with a homemade prison shank. Today, his wife did it for him with a loaded weapon.
Let`s switch gears very quickly to the missing groom. Tonight, in New York, forensic scientist Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky; in San Francisco, FBI agent, profiler Candice Delong; in New York, "Current Affair" host Tim Green.
Welcome, everybody. Tim, bring me up-to-date, friend.
TIM GREEN, HOST, "A CURRENT AFFAIR": Well, there isn`t a whole heck of a lot new, except that it`s being reported that the FBI is now -- has now determined that some of the young men who were removed from the cruise ship -- and we talked about it on your show last week, Nancy -- for an alleged rape.
And they were questioned between Turkey and Italy. They were taken off by Italian authorities in Naples. And some of those young men, who were also, as we talked about, some of the men last seen drinking with George Smith, are now being considered persons of interest by the FBI.
Now, we can`t say any more than that, what that means. Does it mean that they`re suspects? No, it doesn`t. Does it mean that they`re potential witnesses? They certainly are.
And I would think that they would have been persons of interest long ago, because, at "A Current Affair," we`ve known for weeks that these young men were around George Smith the night he disappeared.
GRACE: Tim, what can you tell me about the persons of interest, the three of them?
GREEN: Well, we could say that they`re young men. One of them we know lives in southern California. Two others are described and describe themselves as being of Russian descent.
GRACE: CNN still trying to confirm that. We are talking to "Current Affair`s" Tim Green.
Very quickly to Candice Delong, what should the FBI be doing right now?
CANDICE DELONG, FORMER FBI AGENT/PROFILER: Well, I would imagine that they are attempting to go re-examine those crime scenes where we, of course, that blood stain that you`re showing on the screen right now, the blood in the state room, the blood on the hand railing.
GRACE: They have. They`ve done that.
DELONG: They have Luminolled it. They have gone back for looking for molecular traces of blood.
GRACE: I know that they told us that they have processed the scene. The FBI has been back on the ship.
DELONG: We understand that they`ve even re-enacted what they think may have happened that night.
GRACE: And I don`t know if they`ve done Luminol, though, Candice.
DELONG: OK. Just because the crime scene was cleaned up, washed away, doesn`t mean there might not be molecular traces of blood there that they can find. And then, once they do that, of course, they could see if it matches George Smith.
Another thing I would be doing is, these three people of interest and any other people of interest that they have, interest meaning possible suspects, I would certainly be in their state rooms looking for any traces of a crime that might have occurred.
For example, if you were to find George Smith or any trace of George Smith`s blood in their state room, that would be very, very incriminating. Also search warrants on the three men that we`re talking about, their possessions, their clothes that they had on that trip, looking for evidence that a crime may have been committed.
GRACE: Very quickly to Tim Green with "A Current Affair." Number one, Tim, what can you tell me about allegations the groom was bragging that evening, commenting to people that he had about $50,000 in his state room? And has the family given up DNA to compare to this blood?
GREEN: I don`t know about the family. It`s been rumored or talked about by a couple of people who were there that George Smith was gambling and did mention that he did have a significant amount of cash in his state room.
One thing you`ve got to say about the scene of the crime -- and you know this as a prosecutor, Nancy, the issue that they`re going to have -- when you talk about, well, finding out who may have been there, or who may have been involved, the problem you`ve got, as a prosecutor, is, how are you going to prove it?
This crime scene has been thoroughly contaminated, people, you know, walking in and out all around, the blood washed off. So I don`t know how in the world, even if they could connect someone to that state room -- you know, we talked with a guy who was in the state room directly adjacent to their cabin who said there was noises, there were men`s voices, there were women`s voices, people coming and going all night long.
So I don`t know how this late in the game, with a contaminated crime scene, they can hope to get a conviction, unless someone talks.
GRACE: To Lawrence Kobilinsky, what`s your thought, Doctor?
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: It`s a lot worse than just a contaminated crime scene. This is a cleaned-up crime scene. Obviously, the crew of the ship were instructed to clean up. They don`t want passengers looking at great big globs of blood.
So, obviously, if bleach was used, it would have done a great deal of damage. But still, in all, there may be some trace evidence that they could find in the cabin. It`s very tough to go back.
This is not a static situation. This is a dynamic situation. The ship`s moving around, crime scene`s uncontrolled. Whatever they gather, that`s what they`re going to have to be looking at.
GRACE: Dr. Kobilinsky, the cruise ship, Royal Caribbean, has said that Turkish authorities released the scene, that they processed it and released it.
Very quickly, to Richard Herman. Richard, these three persons of interest have already lawyered up. They`ve gotten defense attorneys.
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, they`ve lawyered up, Nancy. And, you know, I would really concentrate on the California boy. I think the two Russian boys from New York, I think, you know, we try to take a shot at them, but they`re not going to talk.
But the one in California, I would definitely send four agents out there, try to make an appointment, try to set it up with his lawyer. And I tell you, Nancy, I just have a bad feeling about the bride. I think she knows more than she`s saying.
And, you know, I just don`t buy her story that she passed out. She doesn`t remember anything, but, even though she got up in the morning, didn`t see any blood, went out to work out.
GRACE: Everybody, we`ll be right back with Anne Bremner out of Seattle when we get back. Stay with us.
GRACE: A honeymoon turns into a nightmare when the groom disappears. He hasn`t been seen since. Very quickly to "Current Affair`s" Tim Green.
Tim, the woman says -- the bride says she has no recollection of what happened. Is there a chance she didn`t sleep in the cabin that night?
GREEN: Well, she said that she was in the cabin that night. Of course, it`s possible that she wasn`t. And it`s also possible that she doesn`t remember.
We talked about this also last week. She could have been heavily intoxicated and/or drugged.
We`ve got conflicting reports on where she was. We had one witness say he saw her bouncing back and forth, staggering out of the nightclub. We have report now from an attorney from one of these persons of interest that`s saying that she was escorted out of the nightclub by a Royal Caribbean employee.
GRACE: Tim, that`s correct. You`re absolutely correct.
To Anne Bremner, high-profile Seattle lawyer. Anne, two things: Number one, these guys that helped George Smith to his cabin -- you know, he seemed so out of it, I`m just wondering if some type of roofie, GHB was used in his drink, and he was totally out of it.
Plus, the jurisdiction issues, Anne.
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Absolutely. I mean, this is a very complicated case. I was thinking to myself, if you`re going to commit a murder, Nancy, and get away with it, do it in Aruba, do it on a cruise ship, or do it in Southern California.
I mean, and these -- this is very, very complicated.
GRACE: You know, I believe you had some other interesting fact about the law you wanted to reveal?
BREMNER: Yes. I wanted to say to my dad, the most important person in my life, happy birthday. And he`s a big fan of yours, Nancy, and a big fan of the show and always watches. But I love you, Dad, and happy birthday.
GRACE: How old is he, Annie?
BREMNER: Well, he`ll get mad. It`s Jim Bremner, and he`s 73. And he looks like a million bucks. And he is a wonderful person.
GRACE: Happy birthday to Anne`s dad. Thanks, Annie.
I want to thank all of my guests though.
My biggest thank is to you for being with us tonight, inviting all of us into your home.
Coming up, headlines from all around the world. Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. See you right here tomorrow night, I hope, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.