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American Morning

Constitution Deadline; A Mother's Protest

Aired August 15, 2005 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Showdown in Gaza. Jewish settlers say God wants them to stay, but the Israeli military says they've got to go. A live report on the historic Gaza pullout is ahead.
Crucial hours in the future of Iraq. Leaders there are scrambling to draft a constitution. What's the holdup? We're live in Baghdad as the deadline closes in.

And another week, another record high for gas prices. There could be some relief in sight, though, on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

O'BRIEN: Good morning. Welcome, everybody. I'm Soledad O'Brien. Miles got the day off.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: He certainly does. I'm Carol Costello, sitting in.

Coming up, the so-called "Grand Theft Auto" killings in Alabama. The jury recommending death for the man convicted in that case. We're going to talk to his lawyers coming up.

O'BRIEN: That's ahead.

First, though, a look at the headlines with Kelly Wallace.

Good morning again, Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Soledad.

And good morning again, everyone. Here are some of those stories "Now in the News."

Israel's Prime Minister Ariel Sharon expected to address the country today as the pullout from parts of Gaza and the West Bank gets under way. Israeli soldiers are serving eviction notices to settlers staying beyond the pullout deadline. Some of the settlers remain defiant, saying they will not leave.

Grieving family members are heading to Greece today. They will be identifying the bodies of the 121 people killed in a plane crash near Athens.

Authorities are calling it the worst airline accident in Greece's history. Early indications show a loss of cabin pressure or oxygen may have prohibited to that crash. An investigation is ongoing.

Funeral services being planned today for John Johnson, the founder of "Ebony" and "Jet" magazines. When asked to explain the magazines, Johnson once said, "We try to seek out good things even when everything seems bad."

Johnson died of heart failure last Monday. He was 87 years old. Former President Bill Clinton is among the people expected to attend today's service.

We have been talking about this all morning, big numbers at the pump. That is right. Gas prices have gone up 20 cents over the past three weeks. An average gallon of regular unleaded gas now costs $2.50.

Some experts say high prices are likely to continue until Labor Day, when demand drops off. Prices could begin to dip down then.

And parts of the East Coast cleaning up after a series of heavy storms. Up to five inches of rain fell near Boston. Power was cut off to more than 60,000 people in Massachusetts and Connecticut.

In New Jersey, the storm snapped power lines and knocked down trees, forcing delay of the PGA championships. Play is set to resume today.

That gets you caught up. Now to Soledad.

O'BRIEN: All right, Kelly. Thanks.

Well, constitutional negotiations in Iraq are reaching critical mass at this hour. A draft of the document has to go to parliament today. The Sunnis don't seem to be on board, though, with the Shiite and Kurdish factions.

Ken Pollack is with -- the director, rather, of research at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. And he's in CNN's Washington bureau this morning.

Ken, always nice to see you. Let's get right to the issues this morning.

The two that are most highlighted, I think it's fair to say, federalism and also religion. Let's start with federalism. It seems that it's either this -- and it's kind of confusing -- federalism either is what the government's going to look like, so either it's going to be a big centralized government, or another option is state, sort of like what we have here in the United States.

What is the big issue? What's making federalism the big issue?

KEN POLLACK, SABAN CENTER AT BROOKINGS: Well, there are whole varieties of different things that are kind of coming together in the issue of federalism, Soledad. First, you've got things like distribution of oil wealth. The Sunnis in the center of the country are very frightened because most of Iraq's oil wealth are located in the north, and in particularly in the south. And the Kurds and Shia who are located in the north and the south are both saying, well, we want more federalism because we want a greater stake in the oil wealth.

By the same token is the issue of power, military power. Who's going to get to have their own independent militias remain? Are the Kurdish Pershmerga going to stay? Are the Shia Batorcor (ph) going to be able to stay? And then beyond that, there's control over just kind of day-to-day life.

There's a lot of debate. One of the other big issues out there is religion. Well, if you had a more federalized system, it might be the case that local religious custom might prevail in some of those parts of country.

O'BRIEN: So there has been word of this tentative compromise on the Islamic law. They've said that the compromise could be -- it wouldn't necessarily be the law, but it would be a primary source of the law, and no law made could contradict Islamic law.

That seems very confusing to me. What does that mean exactly?

POLLACK: Well, it's actually -- it's not bad compromise, all things considered. There are lots of different formulations all throughout the Muslim world about the role of Islam in policymaking and in legislature. And many of Iraq's most religious figures have been pushing for formulations along the lines of, Islam should be the only source of legislation. And here the seculars are pushing back.

And this is not a bad formulation. It's not far away from what a country like Egypt has, where Islam is a source of legislation, nothing can contradict it. But there's a lot of ambiguity in that, and it leaves things very vague. And it means that secularists can pretty much live their lives the way that they want to.

O'BRIEN: The deadline for coming up with this constitution, the draft, is in 56 -- 55 minutes. Do you think they're going to make this deadline? And if they don't make the deadline, does that really matter?

POLLACK: Well, first off, I think the second question is the bigger one, because truth to tell, Soledad, they've actually missed the deadline. The deadline, truth to tell, was on Friday. They were supposed to have gotten the constitution to the assembly on Friday.

They missed that deadline. They're now looking at this as this was the formal date for -- the assembly should have accepted it.

Fifty-five minutes is pretty darn close. I think that if it misses it by a few day, no Iraqi is going to mind.

And I think truth to tell, over the longer term, most Iraqis look at this process and say, what's important for us is to get a good constitution rather than a right-now constitution. And I think that if they have the reasonable expectation that they'll get a better constitution by waiting, I think they'll be glad to miss the deadline.

O'BRIEN: But how long is too long to wait? I mean, these issues that you point out, the role of religion and the government, and even just the makeup of the states, that there are going to be -- those are huge, huge issues.

POLLACK: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: And can they be resolved in 72 hours, or even in two weeks? And at what point is, well, now it's a big problem, it's six months. Is it nine months?

POLLACK: I think that three to nine months is probably the outside limit of how long that this process can keep running, because at that point in time, the Iraqi people are going to lose faith in this group of politicians sitting in Baghdad. I mean, in truth, many Iraqis are already annoyed about this government. They feel like it's very disconnected from the rest of society, that these people in many cases are very corrupt, or they're just squabbling over the issue of political -- of the political pie in Baghdad, and they're not really doing much for the Iraqi people themselves, who really want security, jobs, gasoline, their own gasoline prices to go down. Well, actually, gasoline supply to be increased, I guess, is a better way to put it.

Lots of things that they're worried about. And I think that if this process drags on too long, you're going to see a lot of Iraqis starting to kind of revolt, either figuratively or literally, against this group of people.

But I think they'll be glad to give it 72 hours, if that's all it is. And I think they'd be willing to put up with a period of several more months of extension if they had a reasonable chance that they were going to get a better document.

O'BRIEN: What's the impact on violence? I mean, I haven't seen anybody who thinks that in the short term, immediately after a draft is signed, or the constitution is signed, the violence will stop. But in the long term, do you think there's a correlation between a draft constitution and the end of violence?

POLLACK: Well, you had Mowaffak Al-Rubaie on last hour. And Mowaffak gave, I think, the theory that the Bush administration and that the Iraqi leaders have, which is that their hope is, if you get a good document, if the Sunnis are clearly part of the process and they feel like they got adequately represented, that that will take the wind out of the sails over the insurgency over time.

It's a possibility. And I think that it could happen. And I certainly hope that it does. But I think we have to be realistic and say that that would really be a long shot.

What we've seen from this insurgency is that it is rooted in a number of different grievances, that you've got larger problems in Iraq beyond the constitution. And that eastern if we get a great constitution -- and I certainly hope we do get a great constitution -- at that moment, then the hard part starts, because then you're going to get a new Iraqi government that is then going to have to address problems, like the Iraqi military not yet being ready to do the job and the problems with jobs and with gasoline and electricity, and all of those other problems which so far they've not had to deal with because they're so focused on building this constitution.

O'BRIEN: Sort of obstacles on top of more obstacles. Ken Pollack at the Saban Center at Brookings Institution.

Ken, thanks -- Carol.

POLLACK: Thank you, Soledad.

COSTELLO: On to Crawford, Texas, now.

Cindy Sheehan's protest is far different today than it was when she began. She started out as just one woman, the mother of a soldier killed in Iraq, demanding to see President Bush. Now, as Dana Bash reports, she is the central figure in a major political battle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Cindy Sheehan's vigil early on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Talk to us! Speak to us!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Speak! Speak!

BASH: Then, the crowds.

Reporters swarmed the first protest outside the president's ranch. Antiwar supporters celebrate a symbol. Then, professionals to choreograph.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You'll want to back up one step.

BASH: Paid help from Fenton Public Relations, a firm associated with liberal causes, helping manage and maximize Sheehan's anti-Bush message. Footing Fenton's bill, a blank check from True Majority, founded by the guy who brought you Chunky Monkey, Ben Cohen of Ben & Jerry's.

Despite the help, Sheehan insists...

CINDY SHEEHAN, SON KILLED IN IRAQ: They are working for me and my message. They're not taking over anything. I'm in charge here.

My name is Cindy Sheehan.

BASH: Sheehan's Gold Star Families for Peace paid to air this ad in Crawford for just $15,000, funded by online donations. Easier to spring for when other costs are absorbed by new friends.

SHEEHAN: Every need I have has been met, mostly by the Crawford Peace House. BASH: Just days ago, the Peace House, a liberal beachhead in conservative Crawford, couldn't pay bills. Now contributions are pouring in to support Sheehan.

JONATHAN WOLF, SHEEHAN SUPPORTER: We've gone from a brand new account to over $84,000 in three, maybe four days.

BASH: Anti-Sheehan protesters are here now. Some call her a liberal pawn.

DON DUIKER, BUSH SUPPORTER: I think there are some groups that have gotten hold of her and are just directing her like a puppet.

BASH: Pressed about support from partisans, Sheehan bristles.

SHEEHAN: Get off the politics. You know?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, no...

SHEEHAN: The war is -- this war is not a partisan issue. This war is wrong, whether you're a Republican or a Democrat. Nobody asked my son, "Are you a Republican or are you a Democrat?" before they sent him to die in an illegal war.

BASH: Not everyone here is a pro. Jonathan Read saw Sheehan on TV and drove from Arizona, volunteering to deliver her meals.

JONATHAN READ, WAR PROTESTER: The last time I had done something like this was in 1968. My picture was in "TIME" magazine, and I was holding a Nixon-Agnew poster. So I've come 180 degrees on this.

BASH: Sheehan is grateful but sophisticated enough to know she's a sleepy August phenomenon.

SHEEHAN: Something might happen and, you know, this won't be the story anymore. We don't want the story to die. We don't want it to be, you know, like the 15 minutes of fame, because ending the war is the story.

BASH: Dana Bash, CNN, Crawford, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: And the protest has grown large enough that at least one of the president's Crawford neighbors is fed up. He fired a shotgun into the air on Sunday where Sheehan is camped out.

Although, Soledad, he said it was dove hunting season and he was just checking his gun.

O'BRIEN: And if you believe that -- thanks, Carol.

Let's get to the weather now with Chad Myers.

(WEATHER REPORT) COSTELLO: Still to come, it's a new test that can detect lung cancer in its earliest stages. But do its risks outweigh its benefits? We'll take a look.

O'BRIEN: And coming up next, a follow-up to the verdict in that video game murder trial in Atlanta -- Alabama, rather. Excuse me. Find out why the killer's lawyers say the deck was stacked against him.

That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In Alabama, a case of life imitating art in an extreme sense. Defense attorneys didn't question whether their client committed the crime, but rather if an obsession with a video game led him to it. Here's a recap for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO (voice over): In the case that became known at the "Grand Theft Auto" murder trial, the jury recommended death. Twenty- year-old Devin Moore was found guilty of murdering two police officers and a radio dispatcher. During the trial, Moore's lawyers argued that an abusive childhood and his obsession with the video game "Grand Theft Auto" drove him to kill.

In the game, players are rewarded for stealing cars and killing police. The victims' families have filed a separate civil suit against the manufacturer of "Grand Theft Auto" and two retail stores that sold the game to Moore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that these cop-killing games are leading to these killings because that's what they are. They're murder simulators.

COSTELLO: In the criminal case, the judge will decide whether to accept the jury's death recommendation for Moore. The Alabama prosecutor says jurors did the right thing.

CHRIS MCCOOL, FAYETTE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: My feeling all along was, if there ever a case where the death penalty was warranted, it would have been this one.

COSTELLO: Relatives of the victims seem to agree.

JUNE MEALER, VICTIM'S STEPMOTHER: It's been really hard. But he showed no emotion, never looked at anybody. Just like he didn't care.

PHILIP CRUMP, VICTIM'S BROTHER: It's not going to never end for us, because, you know, James is not going to ever come to sit down at the table and eat with us again, or anything else, for that matter. We have to go see him at a cemetery.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: So, did the jury reach the right decision in the criminal case? Should Devin Moore be put to death?

Jim Standridge and Shelly Hood are the attorneys for Devin Moore. They join us now live from Birmingham, Alabama.

Welcome to you both.

SHELLY HOOD, ATTORNEY FOR DEVIN MOORE: Good morning.

JIM STANDRIDGE, ATTORNEY FOR DEVIN MOORE: Thank you, Carol. Glad to be here.

COSTELLO: The judge in the criminal case at one point said, no, you could not introduce this video game as the reason for why this guy killed three people. What reason did he give?

STANDRIDGE: Judge Moore, who is a very wise and very fair man, set the standard for the admissibility of this evidence about the video game so high as to its scientific reliability that it was impossible for us to meet it. We, of course, disagree with that, and that will be an issue on appeal. But that's -- those issues commonly happen in trials.

COSTELLO: Well, you talk about the science behind this. There's a civil case ongoing now. Another attorney is representing the victims in this case.

He brought that up. He says there are hundreds of studies that shows these violent video games can lead to real violence.

STANDRIDGE: Well, that's true. And unfortunately, for us, there are so many studies that indicate they do not.

It's important to know, Carol, in our case that our young man, Devin Moore, had a mental illness, had Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder.

Our case is different from a normal argument of saying that the video games lead to violence, because there was no question in our case that Devin had this mental illness. And the video game evidence needs to be viewed in the context of that mental illness.

COSTELLO: But when you say he had an obsession with this video game, Shelly, what do you mean? Did he sit and watch it like dozens of time, or play it dozens of times a day?

HOOD: He did. He played it hours on end. It was his favorite video game. He played others, but "Grand Theft Auto Vice City" was by far his favorite game.

COSTELLO: So what you're saying in essence is that this video game aggravated all of his other problems and drove him to commit this particular crime?

STANDRIDGE: What we're seeing ask is that when he became in a dissociative state from his mental illness, that he diverted to the script that was programmed into him from the compulsive playing of this video game, and that's what he acted out when he lost touch with his reality.

COSTELLO: So, you know, he's stealing a car and he's just envisioning himself as a part of this video game, then. I mean, 35 million of these video games are sold every year, I think. Thirty- five million all have been sold. I thinks that's the proper way to say it. I mean, why aren't there more murders like this, then?

STANDRIDGE: Well, there may be. We were fortunate to have good psychologists and psychiatrists who could examine Devin and give us some insight into what was going on with him. In many cases, the defendants charged with crimes are not afforded that opportunity.

COSTELLO: Do you think that the civil case will -- I mean, do you think there will be success?

STANDRIDGE: Well, the standard in the law and the burden of proof that they have is substantially different from what we had in our case. So I can't really comment. I haven't -- I'm not involved in the civil case. Obviously, the issues are similar, but they're different enough that they may have a different result.

COSTELLO: Well, we're going to follow that civil case to see what happens. Jim Standridge and Shelly, Hood, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

HOOD: Thank you, Carol.

STANDRIDGE: Thank you, Carol. Our pleasure.

COSTELLO: Soledad.

O'BRIEN: There is a new test that can detect lung cancer in its earliest stages. We'll take a look this morning at why it's so controversial.

That's coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: With the recent deaths of news anchor Peter Jennings and the Dallas actress Barbara Bel Geddes from lung cancer, many people are asking questions about early detection. A CT scan that can detect lung tumors even smaller than a centimeter is under way with a federal study, and they're trying to determine whether or not it can save lives.

Dr. Bruce Johnson is the director of thoracic oncology at the Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston. He's in our Boston bureau this morning.

Nice to see you. Thanks for being with us.

What's the difference exactly between a CT scan and a standard chest x-ray?

DR. BRUCE JOHNSON, DANA FARBER CANCER INSTITUTE: So, a chest radiograph is a technology that's been around for about 40 or 50 years. It's a straight shot that goes from the front to the back of your chest and gives a single image on a film.

A CT scan is technology that's been with us for about 25 or 30 years, and it takes slices through the lungs, where you can see down to lesions as small as two-tenths of a centimeter, whereas it needs to be about a centimeter or about a half an inch to be able to see it on a chest x-ray.

O'BRIEN: So it sounds by that description alone that CT scan would be the far better option. What makes it so controversial?

JOHNSON: Well, I think one of the things about calling a CT scan controversial is just its role in detecting lung cancer early. CT scans have been used as part of our diagnostic approaches to any abnormality within the chest for about 20 or 30 years. And it's an important part of evaluating and treating people after we already know they have lung cancer, as well as other things in their chest.

O'BRIEN: So you're basically saying that not only can it pick out lung cancers at their earliest stages, what it's also showing is any abnormalities. You get a lot fall positive readings, is that right?

JOHNSON: That's correct. The part that is somewhat controversial or perhaps unknown is what role it's going to play in saving people's lives by picking up lung cancer early.

One of the things that's not controversial about the CT scans is the fact that they can pick up lung cancers early. When you do chest x-rays, the older way of imaging the chest, about 40 percent can be picked up at the time that you can think about surgically resecting them or cutting them out. With the CT scanner, about 80 percent of them can be picked up at the earlier stage, where you almost certainly can remove them surgically or resect them.

O'BRIEN: And what kind of position does that put doctors in? Because of course your options with such an early stage cancer can be chemo or can be obviously very invasive surgery. Would you recommend that people go ahead, even if they have a tumor the size of half a centimeter, go ahead and do that?

JOHNSON: Well, one of the things that is very good about this study is it picks up very small lesions within the chest, which is the first step in trying to detect early -- lung cancer early, and then to treat it effectively. And one of the things that's very good.

The thing we don't know yet is, if you see these at a very early stage, and then to try to take them out if you're going to help them. One of the things that we're pretty certain about is, with lung cancer, it's the same as with breast cancer in that you see more abnormalities on the skin than actually represent cancer.

So you have to be able to distinguish between these small abnormalities that can be the size of a bee-bee within the chest, and deciding which of those is important to take out, and which you can potentially leave in there.

O'BRIEN: Why is the American Cancer Society not recommending routine CT scans, then?

JOHNSON: Well, as I mentioned before, we've got about five years of experience. You can pick up very, very small lesions within the chest. And our best estimates are now only about between five and 10 percent of those lesions are actually cancers. The others are relatively small scars.

Now, because the early work has shown you can pick these up early, the question comes up is, which or all of these if you take them out can make people live longer? And that's part of a national study that's been started in 2002.

O'BRIEN: Dr. Bruce Johnson, thanks for being with us.

He's from the Dana Farber in Boston -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come, Iraq races against the clock to beat the deadline for its new constitution. Will it be finished in time? We'll take you live to Baghdad.

That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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