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American Morning

Crawford Standoff; Seeds of Peace; U.K. Shooting Mistake

Aired August 17, 2005 - 07:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome back, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Coming up, the Iraq war protest in Crawford, Texas. Cindy Sheehan and her supporters are expected to move within just a mile of the president's ranch now. It's thanks to an offer that comes from one of his neighbors.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's interesting, the neighbor's cousin doesn't agree with that idea.

S. O'BRIEN: More in-fighting.

M. O'BRIEN: He's got the gun out, and the neighbor is saying, hey, come on out to our property. It will be interesting to see what the family Thanksgiving dinner is like there. We'll talk to one man, a county commissioner. We'll ask him about what he sees the impact is in the community. Obviously, a lot of people are upset about that. There's obviously a political issue here, and there's also just the convenience issue of having people on the street.

S. O'BRIEN: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: But first, headlines, Carol Costello.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: But first, it's my turn.

M. O'BRIEN: You go, girl.

COSTELLO: All right. Thanks so much. And good morning, everyone.

"Now in the News."

A developing story. Emotions running high in Gaza. The deadline for Israeli settlers to leave has now passed. But some are still refusing to go. One woman set herself on fire in protest. She is said to be in serious condition. In one community, about 1,000 people have barricaded themselves inside of a synagogue. These are new pictures we're just getting in from inside that synagogue. Israel's prime minister, Ariel Sharon, called images from the operation heartbreaking, but said the pullout would make Israel more secure. Much more on this developing story throughout this morning.

There have been two explosions at a bus station in central Baghdad, the blasts coming just 10 minutes apart. Iraqi police say at least 43 people were killed, dozens of others wounded. A third explosion was reported near a hospital where the casualties from the first two bombings were taken.

Dozens of cities across Bangladesh are still reeling after a series of bombings there. Authorities say 350 bombs went off nearly simultaneously, 115 people hurt. Police say most of the explosions took place in and around government buildings. An Islamic militant group has claimed responsibility for the attacks.

We're expecting to hear today from the family of Coretta Scott King. The widow of Martin Luther King, Jr. is said to be in fair condition after being rushed to the emergency room. A hospital spokeswoman says King was kept overnight for observation. It is not clear why she was taken in for medical care.

And a monster stampede for bargain laptops. Who knew? The Richmond school system was selling Apple iBooks for 50 bucks. There are only 1,000 computers available for sale, but more than 5,00 people turned out. Well, you do the math. People apparently pushed and screamed and trampled on others to get to the front. Seventeen people were hurt. It's sort of like the Filene's (ph) wedding dress sale, when all of the women converge.

S. O'BRIEN: Right, right. Wouldn't it be great if like -- you know, you see all of those kids there -- if they could get really inexpensive laptops? I mean, so that they would have access?

M. O'BRIEN: Without having to have a stampede.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, right.

M. O'BRIEN: It brings out the best in human nature, doesn't it?

COSTELLO: Unbelievable.

M. O'BRIEN: Folks, geez, give me a break. It's just a laptop.

All right. Let's go to Crawford, shall we? The mother of a U.S. soldier killed in Iraq and her throng of protesters are moving their campsite. The new site is on private property, after President Bush's neighbors complained about the toll that it was taking on the small community.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN (voice over): Crawford, Texas, population 705, a tiny farming town with no grocery store, just one traffic light and one gas station/diner. And not far away, the western White House. And a new addition to the town, "Camp Casey," named for Cindy Sheehan's 24-year- old son, a soldier killed in action last year in Iraq.

The camp has attracted outsiders both for and against the war. And that's ultimately testing the patience of laid-back locals.

The traffic, the tents, the media and...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got a battle the port-a-potties.

M. O'BRIEN: On Sunday, the president's neighbor fired a shotgun blast near the camp.

LARRY MATTLAGE, PRESIDENT BUSH'S NEIGHBOR: I'm getting ready for dove season, and y'all going to still be here while I practice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There wasn't another message involved in the gunshots?

MATTLAGE: Figure it out for yourself.

M. O'BRIEN: The following night, a man driving a pickup truck mowed down hundreds of commemorative flags and crosses erected by demonstrators along the road. Now Sheehan's "Camp Casey" is moving to a new site, following complaints from the president's neighbors. But the group is determined not to leave until...

CINDY SHEEHAN, SON DIED IN IRAQ: The minute George Bush speaks with me, we'll be gone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: Joining us now is Ray Meadows, commissioner of McLennan County, which includes the town of Crawford, Texas.

Mr. Meadows, good to have you with us this morning.

RAY MEADOWS, MCLENNAN COUNTY COMMISSIONER: Good morning.

M. O'BRIEN: Now that they're moving, is the problem solved, from your perspective?

MEADOWS: Well, we don't know yet. I'm standing out here across the road from where the present camp is, and I don't know when they'll be moving. And it's none of my business. I really don't care. All I'm concerned about since day one is this county road and the safety of the citizens out here in the Prairie Chapel area.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. If they move to private property...

MEADOWS: We really...

M. O'BRIEN: If they move to private property, that will solve that problem, in theory at least, right?

MEADOWS: Well, we don't know. We don't know yet. I don't think they're going to have near the space. I think there's one to two acres. I could be wrong on that. But we're going to see. But it's still on a county road down there. So, we'll address that situation when and if they do move. So, I'm anxious to find out what's going on.

M. O'BRIEN: Tell me what you're hearing from your constituents. What are they most upset about? MEADOWS: The traffic out here. I was out here last Saturday, and we had -- the sheriff told me he had counted and stopped counting at 992 cars. We've got a 20-foot road out here, and we've got 12 feet of right of way on each side where they have to park. And if they get too far in, they're going to be in the bar ditch.

So, what we had and I observed Saturday, and we had a lot of foot traffic. They were walking up and down the road. A lot of people have never been out in the country. You know, they're used to walking on sidewalks. And if you get out in the ditch, you're going to get red bugs or snake bit. But it's a dangerous situation.

And what I'm looking at here, this is a curve. And when people come around this curve and they start looking at the camp or the crosses, they could swerve and either hit a person or a vehicle, and we don't want that. We've got liability out here.

M. O'BRIEN: Let me ask you this, Mr. Meadows, though. If this were a protest that was pro-President Bush, or for that matter if it was a NRA rally or something like that, do you think people would complain as much?

MEADOWS: Yes, sir.

M. O'BRIEN: Really?

MEADOWS: And I've been complaining about your truck, because your truck is parked on the road now. And I said, you know, y'all are going to have to get the ladder off the road, or we're going to tow it. Now that's -- I mean, we're serious about this.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, can we get through the interview first before we do that, if that's all right?

MEADOWS: Well, I'm going to let you do that. But I'm just telling you, you know, what I'm observing out here, and that's the first thing I noticed.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. But when then Governor Bush was elected president, surely you knew there was going to be eventualities like this, where something would cause a crowd to come to Crawford, right?

MEADOWS: That's exactly right, and we even went -- nine of us went to Plains, Georgia, to get an idea of how they observed it and dealt with it. And we got some ideas there. And they said two things would happen. You know, the media and the people and the -- well, three things, the traffic. And that's what they were discussing about.

Now, we've just got some people frustrated. And I think anybody would. I think these people would be frustrated if they couldn't get in their driveway at home. And hopefully, that won't happen. But I hope they do, just to see what our people have gone through.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, a lot of people, Mr. Meadows were, when they read about this story about this man, who I know you know, who got in his pickup truck and drove down the road and knocked down several of these crosses, which are meant to memorialize people who had died in Iraq, knocked them over. I think a lot of people were outraged over that. What's the feeling there about that?

MEADOWS: Well, I think they were outraged on both sides. I know the gentleman, like you said, and he's a war veteran. He was wounded in the service. So I guess he's got his own agenda as far as that goes. But, you know, there are people upset on both sides. Like I say, it's frustrating. And when they get all of the media attention, they'll stay out here until, you know, hell freezes over, so to speak.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. I guess it's time to move the truck. McLennan County Commissioner Ray Meadows.

MEADOWS: Well, I appreciate it. If you don't, we'll tow it.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. We'll tell the crew to watch out for the red bugs and the snake and all of that stuff. And thank you for your time.

MEADOWS: I appreciate that.

M. O'BRIEN: All right -- Soledad.

MEADOWS: And y'all have a good time.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get back to our top story this morning, the forced evacuation of Gaza that began during the night, with tears on the faces of both the Israeli settlers and the soldiers who are escorting them out. Some people, as you can see in this videotape here, are really struggling as they are literally carried away.

The seeds of Peace International Camp in Otisfield, Maine, allows young people from areas of conflict to live together and learn about each other. Liav is a 25-year-old Israeli. Fadi is a 21-year-old Palestinian. They're at the Otisfield camp. And we should mention that both asked that we don't use their last names.

Nice to see you. Thank you very much for talking with us.

Liav, let's begin with you. Do you think the withdrawal is a good idea, especially when you look at these pictures of how emotional and how, to some degree, physical it's been?

LIAV, SEEDS OF PEACE MEMBER: They are indeed very emotional. And those people having to evacuate their homes are finding it very painful. And I understand their pain, and I understand their agony. They have to let go of their homes, given temporary residence, and they do not know what's going to happen to them in a year or in a month. And I understand their doubts. I understand their fear.

S. O'BRIEN: But do you think it's a good idea?

LIAV: And I think it's a very sad moment. S. O'BRIEN: It is clearly. And you can see on both sides, as we mentioned, just tears being shed. But do you think the forced evacuation is a good idea?

LIAV: Well, the forced evacuation is a good idea in basis. The withdrawal is a good idea, yes. But I would like to see a negotiated agreement. I would like to see a commitment from the other side to keep peace, to have something in return to this very, very hard and harsh act of clearing people from this area, having them give up their home, their homeland to them.

S. O'BRIEN: Fadi, first, what do you think about this withdrawal? And do you think that Liav has a point, that there's nothing being given on the other side, the Palestinian side?

FADI, SEEDS OF PEACE MEMBER: First of all, as a Palestinian, I would like to send a message of gratitude for what is happening on the Israeli side. I think it's a courageous step, and we definitely as Palestinians acknowledge this.

As President Abbas said yesterday, and he spoke directly to the settlers, he said, please leave our land peacefully. You are welcome to come back anytime as visitors and as tourists. What they are doing is a risk, and this is something I am not -- you know, it's not a first thing I experienced as a Palestinian who's been to Seeds of Peace. You take risk by coming here. People don't acknowledge the price of peace.

A friend of mine from Jordan always said this. She's a Seeds of Peace member. She said, in order to make peace with your enemy, you must go to war with yourself. I believe this is something of applies to what the Israelis are doing at this point. They are paying the price of peace, which is ultimately what hopefully, you know, will be good for both of us -- the Palestinians and the Israelis.

With regard to your second questions, I believe, as Palestinians, obviously, the security of the Israelis concerns us very much. We are committed to peace. And I think that in itself is a good enough answer to what we are prepared to do in order to keep that and hopefully keep the momentum going for follow-up disengagements. But hopefully in a different titling, not just unilateral plans, but hopefully negotiated agreements between Palestinians and Israelis.

S. O'BRIEN: Liav, what has to be done to keep that momentum going and to move this action into actually making a difference in the road map to peace?

LIAV: Well, I would like to see trust building up. You see, Fadi and I go way back in Seeds of Peace. This is not our first meeting here at camp. We've been working through Seeds of Peace. We've been meeting through Seeds of Peace. And on a very personal level, we're very good friends.

But what I would like to se is trust being built between the two nations. And that trust, as far as I can see, can only be built through a negotiated agreement with the commitment from both sides that is written on paper. Israelis need a written commitment that they can trust.

I trust Fadi, and when he says he's committed to peace, I know he means it. But what can I bring home to the Israelis? What written commitment, what written words can I bring them to start building this trust? Once we see that we respect that piece of paper, trust can be built between the nations. But that should be the first step.

S. O'BRIEN: Fadi, I'm going to give you the final word here. Do you think...

FADI: I think...

O'BRIEN: Go ahead.

FADI: No, what I was saying is that this is a very special time. We had 10 years of agreements, but absolutely no interactions between the people. Nothing changed on the ground for Palestinians. Settlements remained on the ground. Checkpoints remain still. Actually, settlement activity increased, and the same thing for Israelis. They were still experiencing violence from certain groups in Palestine.

What is happening now is a total change that you're seeing not only just commitment, but actions are being taken by both sides, both leaderships on the Palestinian and Israeli side. This, I think, is a very encouraging sign that we should all be very hopeful about and try to support as much as possible. This will not succeed if it's left only up to the Palestinians and the Israelis, but actually the Americans play a very, very important role in what is happening. And I really hope that they will follow up and present their quiet support.

S. O'BRIEN: Fadi and Liav, I thank you for joining us this morning from the Seeds of Peace camp. We appreciate it -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Interesting to hear those viewpoints.

Let's check the weather.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, we are "Minding Your Business." Can stocks recover today from a triple-digit tumble on Tuesday?

M. O'BRIEN: Also ahead, live to London we go. New documents and pictures just revealed about what that Brazilian man was doing in the London Tube just before he was shot and killed by police. They thought he was a terrorist. He wasn't. Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: The extradition of a suspect in the London bombings is before an Italian court right now. Britain is asking for Hamdi Issac, also known as Osman Hussein (ph), to be returned to that country for trial. Issac admits to a role in the July 21 attacks in London in which the bombs did not properly explode. A decision on his extradition is expected today.

Meanwhile in London today, the British television network, ITV, has obtained some secret documents involving last month's mistaken shooting death of a Brazilian man on a London subway. The documents and photographs reveal that the man appeared to be behaving normally before police mistakenly identified him as a terror suspect and fatally shot him.

ITV's Dan Rivers is among the people looking at these documents and photographs. He joins us now from London with an exclusive report from ITV.

Dan, first of all, just bring us up to speed. What have you been able to glean? What have you been able to learn?

DAN RIVERS, ITV REPORTER: Well, we've received a whole wad of documents and photographs, which give really breathtaking detail into the circumstances surrounding the death of Jean Charles back on the 22nd of July.

One of the key things, I think, that's emerged is from the photos. Now, many of them are too graphic to show. But the ones that we can show clearly show that Jean Charles was not wearing a heavily- padded jacket, as had been suggested at the time. He was, in fact, just wearing a denim jacket.

We have also ascertained that he was probably sitting down when he was confronted by the police. He doesn't appear to have been chased all the way down through into the underground system. He walked calmly. We understand he picked up a free newspaper on the way in. He used a ticket. He walked calmly down the escalator and onto the platform, only running at the very last minute as there was a train waiting there.

So, a lot of the myths and rumors that have been around at the time of the shooting have now been scotched completely from these documents and photographs.

One other key thing is that the circumstances surrounding the surveillance operation have come out. We've got lots of information about that surveillance operation. He was being followed. They were watching a block of flats he was living in, thinking that some of the attempted would-be bombers were living in that flat. It turns out he came out of the same communal entrance and was followed.

The reason that the police misidentified him as possibly being one of the bombers was that the guy that was supposed to be -- the undercover policeman that was supposed to be filming him was actually relieving himself, going to the lavatory at the time. His camera was not switched on, and therefore he was unable to rewind the tape and check the face of Jean Charles against the CCTV pictures of the suspect.

M. O'BRIEN: Wow! RIVERS: So there really is pretty clear evidence of a fairly bungled police operation here.

M. O'BRIEN: Really a tragic series of circumstances. I believe we have one of these images which we can look at. And we should warn our audiences that this is a graphic image. And I'm not sure exactly what this -- this obviously is after the shooting occurred. And what you describe, Dan, is just about what any commuter would do. You walk to the train. You run to the train to catch the train. It seems like a classic series of errors and blunders which ended up so tragically. Obviously, this leaves the police with a lot of questions to still answer. Is there a lot of pressure on high-ranking authorities there to do something about this? Or are people being asked for further punishment?

RIVERS: Well, at the moment, this is all being investigated by an independent body called the Independent Police Complaints Commission. But there is pressure growing on the police chief here, Sir Ian Blair, because we understand that he wrote to the home office trying to urge them not to allow this independent investigation, because he said that the terrorist investigation should take precedence.

It's lunchtime, as it is over here, the morning with you, we have a statement from them saying the terrorist investigation took precedence over any IPCC investigation at the time.

Now, that decision is being really scrutinized, because it took several days for this independent body to be allowed to investigate the shooting. Before that, it was the police investigating the police. And there are a lot of questions about why some of the CCTV cameras were not supposed to be working, about why the police were not very keen for an outside body to look into the shooting.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Dan Rivers. And we should point out the officer who actually pulled the trigger is still on suspension, faces possibly criminal charges.

And we do have a response from the IPCC -- that's the Independent Police Complaints Commission -- saying this: "The IPCC made it clear that we would not speculate or release partial information about the investigation, and that others should not do so. That remains the case."

That's all we're getting from them this morning.

Dan Rivers of ITV, thank you very much for your time.

Back with more AMERICAN MORNING in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: The New York Stock Exchange may be ready to settle its huge dispute over Dick Grasso's huge pay package, 140 million bucks.

Ali Velshi is in for Andy Serwer this morning. He is "Minding Your Business."

Who wins? Who loses?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm minding the business of the rich folks this morning. I'll tell you what happened. Back in 2003, Dick Grasso was the very high-profile head of the New York Stock Exchange. He took a $143 million pay package, and that got everybody up in arms, because pay packages were big news back then. They let him go.

S. O'BRIEN: And it was an obscene amount of money.

VELSHI: A hundred and forty million, yes, and that was pretty crazy. So, the New York Stock Exchange claimed it all back. Dick Grasso says, stuff it.

So, New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer sues for $100 million. Dick Grasso says, forget it. Eliot Spitzer says, I'll take 50 back of the 140. Dick Grasso says, forget it.

Now, we're hearing that the New York Stock Exchange -- "Newsweek" is certainly reporting that the New York Stock Exchange says, OK, you know what? Give us $25 million, and we'll make this whole thing go away. Dick Grasso says, forget it, not only forget it, you owe me 50 million bucks more for my contract.

S. O'BRIEN: Another 50.

VELSHI: And if you think about giving that $50 million to a charity for a college fund for sons and daughters of firemen, policemen and construction workers, I might drop my lawsuit against you. And it might happen.

S. O'BRIEN: Why might it happen?

VELSHI: Well, the problem is Dick Grasso got a lot of money at a time when it was just bad politics to get a lot of money. So they got rid of him. And he's saying, I didn't do anything wrong. I just got paid a lot of money. You guys agreed to pay me that kind of money.

S. O'BRIEN: I guess at the end of the day if 50 million goes to a college fund it's...

VELSHI: Right. And he's winning the PR battle on that, isn't he?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, you know, he's turning tide on that.

VELSHI: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Ali, thanks a lot.

VELSHI: All right.

S. O'BRIEN: In a moment, some people worship the sun seeking the perfect tan. But can it turn into an addiction? We're "Paging Dr. Gupta" for a look at a surprising new study. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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