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American Morning

Gaza Pullout; Sheehan Leaves

Aired August 19, 2005 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Miles O'Brien.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Carol Costello in for Soledad. Coming up, Israeli forces taking a pause in the evacuation of Jewish settlements to observe the Sabbath. When they start up again, they expect to finish their pullback by Monday or Tuesday.

O'BRIEN: We've seen heart break on the part of the settlers, obviously, but most Israelis agree with this policy. As a matter of fact, a wide majority. We'll talk about the religious significance of Gaza and how that relates to the evacuations coming up. Before we do that, let's check the headlines. Kelly Wallace here with that.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Busy news morning. Hello to you. And good morning.

O'BRIEN: You're busy?

WALLACE: We all are busy. Yes, hello.

And here are some of those other stories now in the news. The U.S. Navy says there are no American casualties in two rocket attacks in the Red Sea. The Navy says a suspected mortar round flew over a transport ship, the USS Ashland, in the Jordanian port city of Aqaba. It's one of two U.S. ships in the port. Both have now left. A second rocket attack killed at least one Jordanian soldier and wounded another.

Today marks two years since the terrorist bombing of United Nations offices in Baghdad. The massive attack killed 22 people, including the u.n.'s chief envoy to Iraq, Sergio Vieira De Mello. The U.N. is planning a wreath laying at its U.S. headquarters in a memorial to those victims.

Pope Benedict XVI is condemning the horrors of the Holocaust. The pope giving an address to the members of the Jewish community today, becoming only the second pope in history to visit a synagogue. It's part of a trip back home for World Youth Day. The pope expected to meet with leaders from Protestant churches later today.

And Miles has been talking about this, a delay for the Space Shuttle Discovery. It was due to make a return trip to Kennedy Space Center at 9:00 a.m. Eastern. But it's looking more like 10:30 a.m. Eastern now. The shuttle will head cross country on the back of a modified Boeing 747 from the Mojave Desert, outside of Los Angeles, where it landed after a trip to the international space center earlier this month. That gets you caught up. Now to Carol.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Kelly.

About 85 percent of the Jewish settlers have evacuated the Gaza Strip. We've been telling you about that. Israel says the disengagement is going much smoother than expected, and it may be because much of Israel does not feel the biblical tie to the land the settlers are claiming.

Bruce Feiler's latest book, "Where God Was Born," will be in bookstores next month. He's written extensively on biblical history.

Welcome to AMERICAN MORNING.

BRUCE FEILER, AUTHOR, "WHERE GOD WAS BORN": Nice to be back.

COSTELLO: So this is really fascinating. So what tie does Israel have in a biblical or historical sense to Gaza.

FEILER: Well, Gaza used to be at the center of the world. Three-thousand, 4,000 years ago at the time of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the main road of the world went from Cairo up to Damascus and right through Gaza, and so Gaza has always been populated. Partly because of that, the Israelites never really penetrated it, because it already had the Egyptian army there. So it's really mentioned only passing in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible. Joshua, when he conquers the promised land around 1,200 BC, he actually is unable to take Gaza. Even during the time of King David, David is unable to take Gaza.

So if you were going to make a list of the top 50, maybe even the top 100 places that are important in the Bible, Gaza wouldn't be on that list.

COSTELLO: The really fascinating thing is the story of David and Goliath took place in Gaza. So in a historical sense, the Israelis don't have much to do with this. In the biblical sense, maybe the Palestinians do.

FEILER: Well, the battle of David and Goliath, which takes place in 1,000 BC, takes place just north of the Gaza Strip, what's called the Elah Valley, and what's going on in this story, and actually in "Where God Was Born," you just mentioned actually found the actual spot, is that Gaza is controlled by the Philistine. Goliath is a Philistine, and David, of course, is the Israelite. And David defeats Goliath, but he's never able to make it all the way to the coast.

And I think what's going on here is the places that are most meaningful to Jews are really down the central spine of Israel, Hebron and Jerusalem, and up in Nablus, and the coastal areas aren't even that important. I think that's one of the reasons that most Israelis, two-thirds by the polls, really don't mind retreating from Gaza.

COSTELLO: But yet, we saw people resisting. We saw, you know, tearful departures, and we saw anger. Why was that emotion on the parts of some? FEILER: Well, because it is, in fact, mentioned in the Bible, even if it's only in passing. And God says to Abraham and later in Deutoronomy that he does promise this land all the way to Gaza. The problem is the land that God promises to Abraham goes all the way up to Euphrates down to the Nile in Egypt.

I love the Bible. I've spent, as you've said, 10 years of my life trekking around the region, first with walking the Bible, now with "Where God Was Born," going to these places. And while I think you can take great meaning from the Bible, really it's not a book that can tell you where to draw borders. It cannot solve the political problems.

COSTELLO: That's a thing that many Americans don't understand. You go to the Bible to see what territory belongs to you, which brings in a lot of stuff that maybe should or shouldn't be in that decision- making process.

FEILER: And I think, if you put this in context, there are a million more than a million Palestinians in Gaza and only 9,000 settlers. And now we're really down to a few hundred of the most extreme.

I think, to me, the headline of what's just taken place in Gaza this week -- and let's just note, it took a week and not the month they expected -- is that the big question in the world today about religion, is who gets to speak? Is it going to be the extremists or the moderates? What's happened in Gaza is that the moderates have stood up to the extremists and said, you know what, you're not going to be able to hold the rest of us hostage.

And this example the Israelis have given, if this were to take place in the Muslim world, if the moderates stood up to the extremists and said, you don't speak for Islam, we do, the world would be a much better place.

COSTELLO: Bruce Feiler, thanks for joining us this morning. We appreciate it -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Anti-war protester Cindy Sheehan is no longer outside the president's ranch in Texas. Sheehan flew back to California last night. Her mother had a stroke. Sheehan took off as soon as they got word.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: We know you want to get to your mom.

CINDY SHEEHAN, SON KILLED IN IRAQ: We'll be going back to Los Angeles. I'm going to assess the situation. If I can, I'll be back. If I can't, I won't be back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Protesters in Crawford are preparing to move their camp to a neighboring ranch just the same today. Like Cindy Sheehan, Lila Lipscomb lost her son in Iraq. Army Sergeant Michael Pederson was killed in April 20th of '03. She, too, wanted answers from the president, and was featured in Michael Moore's documentary "Fahrenheit 9/11."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LILA LIPSCOMB, SON KILLED IN IRAQ: Al Qaeda didn't make a decision to send my son to Iraq. Ignorance that we deal with everyday people, because they don't know. People think they know, but you don't know. I thought I knew, but I didn't know. I need my son. It's tougher than I thought it was going to be to be here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Dramatic moment in that movie. Lila Lipscomb has since changed some of her feelings about the war. She joins us now from Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Good to have you with us.

What's it like, first of all, just even watching that scene there?

LIPSCOMB: Hi, Miles. I think you can tell that it's still raw. I still believe that my son was killed for things that were not true. I've been chasing the truth for two years and four months, and my son was actually April 2nd, not April 20th, in '03. And I've since become the grandmother of all of this. And the change that you speak of, is I still believe that my son was killed for untruths. But I've had to just admit what has happened has happened. And I still have 1,860- something families that are feeling exactly what I feel, and just to say, my heart and my prayers are so with Cindy and her sister Dee Dee (ph) right now in being with their mother, and I do just wish them well.

O'BRIEN: I can certainly understand the connection you have. I know you've gotten to know Cindy Sheehan.

LIPSCOMB: Yes.

O'BRIEN: You, however, differ from her a little bit on your stance at this point, because Cindy has been advocating -- first of all, she'd like to meet with the president. But I think she's been pushing for pulling the troops out completely. Would you disagree with that?

LIPSCOMB: Well, I still believe we need to bring our troops home. That's the bottom line. But it's how are we going to do that? And every single day, the troops and everybody over there is building military bases. So how do we work on bringing our troops home when we're actually over there building places for them to live forever? We need to find out why and what's really going on. Why are we making a stance for them to stay, but yet that we're hearing we're supposed to be having exit strategies. So I think what's really important here is that we need families represented in the exit strategies. We need to have families present in all the aspects of it. And Cindy, what a wonderful thing, She's exercising her first amendment right. And she has found her voice, like hundreds of people on both sides now have found their voice. So it's about finding an exit strategy. How do we do this?

O'BRIEN: A lot of other gold star moms have come forward and have said that they disagree with her approach in all of this. You're not saying that, are you?

LIPSCOMB: Well, you know, I found my voice, and I found my first amendment right. And I did what I felt was right for me. And Cindy's doing what she feels is right for her. It's not that I condone or support. It's just that's what's right for her. And each one of us grieving mothers has to find out what is right for us.

And for me right now, I tend to choose -- my focus is on, if you really, truly support our troops, what are you as an individual American doing to support our troops? They need equipment that is not faulty. They need to have someone come to the veterans hospitals and sit and talk with them.

O'BRIEN: Should...

LIPSCOMB: They need to have medical treatment. There's reports all over the place of how our troops are being treated with medical treatment that's not satisfying.

O'BRIEN: Should Mr. Bush meet with Cindy Sheehan?

LIPSCOMB: I think that's between President Bush and Cindy Sheehan. I think that that's just going to be something that's going to go on. He's said very clearly, he's not going to meet with Cindy. And Cindy's saying very clearly, yes, I need you to meet with me. So we have to be able to come to the table and find out what's going on.

O'BRIEN: Well, in not meeting with her, the president, the administration, has in a sense, created her as an icon.

LIPSCOMB: Absolutely.

O'BRIEN: And she's become a focal point, a lightning rod. And to the extent it brings the debate forward, would you say that's good?

LIPSCOMB: Absolutely, I think that's good. I think it forces the hand that we have to come to the table together as Americans, start reducing this great divide. If you are that much of an American, then you know about democracy and you know that coming to the table is what it's all about, hearing both sides.

O'BRIEN: Lila Lipscomb, thanks for being with us.

LIPSCOMB: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Carol.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, former Tyco exec Dennis Kozlowski already faces 30 years in prison. Now his alma mater is adding insult to injury.

COSTELLO: Aw, that's too bad.

Plus we're "Paging Dr. Gupta" for a look at sports-related injuries for baby boomers. He'll tell you how you can get fit and not get hurt. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Madonna's on the mend after falling from a horse on her 47th birthday. The singer broke three ribs, her collar bone and her wrist. The accident should give pause to America's weekend warriors, specifically those 35 and older -- and we know who we're talking to, don't we? -- who are playing sports and throwing caution to the winds. Maybe not riding fancy horses, but nonetheless, Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here with some advice to those of us who think we're still 18.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SR. MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Some breaking news here. You're not 18 anymore, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Got a few aches just as I turn here to talk to you about this. What should we do? More importantly, what should we not do?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's definitely harder for someone 35 and older to exercise compared to when they were in their 20s.

O'BRIEN: Say it ain't so.

GUPTA: Especially if you haven't exercised since you were in your 20s. I'm not talking to you, necessarily, Miles.

A couple of things happen here. Your bones actually lose some density and your muscles lose some mass. This just happens. It's a natural part of aging. It makes you more prone to injuries. They even have a name for this. It's called boomer-itis. Now, not every 35-year-old's a baby boomber, necessarily, but you get the general idea.

And they actually tracked this sort of thing, trying to figure out how common is it for someone of that age to get some of these sports-related injuries? About a million injuries in 1998, again, in this specific population of people. The most common types of injuries were actually from bicycling and basketball. You get out there on the court. Again, you think you're 20 years old. You're not. And your muscle -- you may pull a muscle, you may sprain something. These are some of the most common injuries.

Now, Madonna's case, obviously, much more serious. She actually broke bones. But the point is still the same. Your bones lose some density, more likely to break, as well.

O'BRIEN: What do we do? Because we still want to stay active. You don't want us being couch potatoes. I know you wouldn't tell us to do that.

GUPTA: No, you definitely...

O'BRIEN: So how do we, you know, maintain that activity and avoid injury?

GUPTA: Well, there's a couple of good pieces of advice, really concrete advice. First of all, some of it's going to be obvious. If -- the whole name of this is weekend warriors. If you think about it, you've really got to stop being a weekend warrior. You've got to get out there and actually try to exercise more than just on the weekends.

O'BRIEN: But we're busy!

GUPTA: You're busy. You know, even a half an hour, even stretching, things like that, to try to keep yourself off the couch on the weekdays. That will help. Also, warm-up properly. This may be self obvious, as well. Just warming up, getting the muscles flowing, doing some jumping jacks, things like that, might help.

Listen to your body. Again, it's not going to tell you the same things it did 15, 20 years ago. And finally, wear proper safety gear, if you're skateboarding for example. I don't know how many 35-year- olds skateboard, but if you're roller blading, for example, or something like that, safety gear is important.

O'BRIEN: And if you listen to your body and your body says stay on the couch, Miles, stay on the couch, do that, too. Let's talk about what happens if you do get hurt.

GUPTA: Yes, if you do get hurt -- now, most likely it's going to be something that is not going to need surgery or not even necessarily going to need a visit to the hospital. Sprains, for example -- most experts will tell you to ice it and elevate it. Remember that. Ice it and elevate it, for a sprained, for example. The first 72 hours or so, ice is good. After that, you might want to use heat. If the swelling persists or the pain persists, it might be broken. Go see your doctor.

O'BRIEN: I know, when you break your ribs, it only hurts when you breathe, right?

GUPTA: That's right. Madonna?

O'BRIEN: We'll see send her a card.

GUPTA: That's right.

O'BRIEN: Sanjay Gupta.

GUPTA: Thanks, Miles.

O'BRIEN: Thanks.

COSTELLO: A university named after a saint removes the name of a convicted felon from one of its buildings. Ali Velshi is "Minding Your Business" this morning. Andy is off.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This falls in the category of ridiculous business excuses. I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in a conversation between former Tyco boss Dennis Kozlowski and the Monsignor Sheeran of -- this is Seton Hall University in New Jersey, named after Elizabeth Ann Seton, which -- the first American born saint.

So according to the university, this is how it goes. On June 17th, Kozlowski gets convicted, and he's going to be sentenced in September. He could get up to 30 years in jail. So, according to the university, he calls up the monsignor and says, you know, despite the $3 million I gave you and the hall that you named after me, I want to spare you guys any more embarrassment. So, could you please, please, please take my name off the building?

COSTELLO: He called them?

VELSHI: Yes. And according to the monsignor, he -- it was -- the request was motivated by Dennis Kozlowski's ongoing affection for the university.

COSTELLO: So the university would have left his name on there?

VELSHI: How do you think the conversation went? Dennis, nevermind the $3 million. We're keeping it. Could you -- we'll make you a deal. The name comes off and you get to say that you asked. The penguin movie was more interesting.

COSTELLO: Thanks, Ali.

O'BRIEN: Apparently, all the shower curtains in the dorms have been named after him.

VELSHI: No, this is a big deal, because there's letterheads and business cards, because the hall is named after him. This is going to cost him more money.

COSTELLO: So it's going to cost $3 million?

O'BRIEN: Send him the bill, send him a bill. He's got a few bucks left, I think.

O'BRIEN: All right, still to come on the program, Emmy-nominated actor Michael C. Hall from HBO's "Six Feet Under" will joins us. The critically acclaimed drama passes on. May it rest in peace. TV heaven on Sunday. We'll see if we can get him to reveal what happens in the finale. That's next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Death is what's kept the TV drama "Six Feet Under" alive and kicking for the last five seasons. Now fans of the HBO series are come to terms with its passing. The show has followed the lives of the Fishers, a family of funeral homeowners. "Six Feet Under" has its final episode on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: There's a job, New York City. I actually could move up to become a staff photographer, although I'm not going to get my hopes up like I did about that grant.

UNIDENTIFIED ACTRESS: That's wonderful, dear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You couldn't pay me to live in New York City.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: Actor Michael C. Hall plays David Fisher. Nice to see you. Thanks for coming in and talking to us.

MICHAEL C. HALL, ACTOR: My pleasure.

S. O'BRIEN: I think you look so different than the David Fisher, and I know the shooting has wrapped, and you've...

HALL: Well, it's probably the facial hair, not quite as tidy.

S. O'BRIEN: That's true, don't have it completely slicked down like he does.

When someone said to you years ago we're going to do a show, funeral homeowners, and every time, every night we're going to start with someone dying, did you think, oh, my God, or did you think this is going to be a hit?

HALL: You know, honestly, I -- if I just heard that and didn't have the specific script to refer to, I might be skeptical. But once I read that pilot script, I just thought it was so remarkable that Alan Ball (ph) had managed to in just one script create this landscape with so many characters who were so fully realized and had so much dimension and so many relationships, triangulated relationships.

S. O'BRIEN: And very real.

HALL: Absolutely.

S. O'BRIEN: I'm a fan of the show. But no one's all good. There's not the good guys and the bad guys.

HALL: Right, no one's wearing a white hat or a black hat. Everybody's wrong at some point, right at some point, and I think that's true to life.

S. O'BRIEN: You've had a lot going on over the last several seasons. You came out of the closet. You buried your brother recently. Adopted two kids. I have to imagine...

HALL: Got abducted.

S. O'BRIEN: Right, the big dramatic one. HALL: Who hasn't?

S. O'BRIEN: As an actor, that must be amazing, really, to have that just kind of sink your teeth into.

HALL: Exactly. Yes, I mean, I think something that's daunting about doing a television series is that maybe it will get stale or you're basically doing the same thing over and over again.

S. O'BRIEN: And then they have you like marry off a character generally. They do that. It gets old. And then have a baby, get married.

HALL: Right, jump the shark or whatever. But, yes, with this, I think we all had a chance to play characters who really evolved in different ways and devolved in some cases, you know, took a step forward, maybe a couple steps back. But yes, it stayed fresh in a way that I think most television shows don't.

S. O'BRIEN: And wish they would.

HALL: For actors.

S. O'BRIEN: Final episode's on August 21st. Will everybody get closure? I mean, I'm desperately hoping. I hate when things end with loose ends. I know that's good for follow-ups.

HALL: I think...

S. O'BRIEN: What happens to Claire? Is she an artist or not? Does she marry the guy or not? What happens to your character? Does he get over his post-traumatic stress after his brother dies? I have a million questions for you. He's so careful.

HALL: It will be off with my head if I give anything away.

S. O'BRIEN: You're so worried about spilling the beans.

HALL: But I do think it will be a satisfying final episode for people.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks for coming in to talk to us.

HALL: My pleasure.

S. O'BRIEN: Michael C. Hall, congratulations on the series, "Six Feet Under," and final episode is coming up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: When AMERICAN MORNING rolls on, "90 Second Pop." Today a look at Eminem's troubles. He canceled a tour. His family is suing him. Now he's in rehab. It's the American way, isn't it? We'll tell you what's going on.

AMERICAN MORNING is continuing in just a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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