Return to Transcripts main page
Nancy Grace
Nancy Grace for August 19, 2005, CNNHN
Aired August 19, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight: Pressure builds in Aruba. Joran Van Der Sloot`s lawyers say prosecutors are hiding evidence in the Natalee Holloway case.
And she is back behind bars. Catholic school teacher Sandra "Beth" Geisel, at the center of a student sex scandal, gets arrested again.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. Thanks for being with us tonight.
Young, beautiful, in love, George and Jennifer Smith were living a fairy tale. But just days into their honeymoon cruise, the newlywed groom vanished in the middle of the ocean. Investigators are following the scent of money, alcohol and blood to solve this mystery.
And stunning developments in the teacher sex scandal plaguing a Catholic school. Sandra "Beth" Geisel, accused of the statutory rape of a young student, arrested again today.
But first: Battles raging in an Aruban courtroom in the case of missing teen Natalee Holloway. Lawyers for suspect Joran Van Der Sloot are saying the prosecution is withholding critical information.
Tonight, joining us by phone in Aruba, managing editor of "Diario," Jossy Mansur. Also, Aruban attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper. In West Palm Beach, Florida, defense attorney Michelle Suskauer. In Houston, Texas, former prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair. And here in New York, psychologist Lisa Kaplan Ashenmil.
But first to Birmingham, Alabama and Paul Finebaum from the Paul Finebaum Radio Network. That, of course, is Natalee`s hometown. Paul, what is the very latest?
PAUL FINEBAUM, ALABAMA RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Well, the latest here is a great deal of confusion. This is a story that, as you well know -- you`ve been covering as well as anyone -- has been going on and on and on, and there is a tremendous disconnect here. We really don`t hear much about this case in Birmingham and in the surrounding areas on the local television stations. It`s way back in the newscast, in the local newspapers. You can barely find the story. On our radio show, which is heard throughout the South, it rarely ever comes up. However, you put on cable television, it`s there. There`s a tremendous disconnect. It`s a tale of two cities in Birmingham.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That is wild. You`d think that would be the lead story every night because everybody around the world is talking about it. Why not?
FINEBAUM: Well, there`s a lot of people that wonder about that, whether because of the background of the city, whether -- Mountain Brook, Alabama, is a very elite community. I`m not really sure what those explanations are. I do know that for a week or two or three or four, it really was the dominant story, but for whatever reason -- and I can`t explain it, I can try to -- it has moved quickly and dramatically off the front pages.
And there is also some -- I wouldn`t say it`s resentment, Jane, I`d say there`s a little bit of awareness and suspicion of what you people are doing, what other cable networks are doing. A lot of people here think that the networks across the dial have latched onto this story for obvious reasons and really don`t care that much about Natalee Holloway or her family. They`re using the family, the family is using you people, and that`s what a lot of people in...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, we just lost him, but we got his point. Obviously, he feels that the media is sort of using this story. But I think it`s captivated the nation because it is such a mystery.
And one of the reasons it`s a mystery, that there`s very little new information. Let`s go to Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario." We have you by phone. Jossy, what is the latest? Delay after delay! Joran Van Der Sloot has been sitting in jail for eight days now without being interrogated, as the clock ticks down to September 4, when he might be released. Why has he not been interrogated?
JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": You know, on that I cannot answer because that`s up to the prosecution and the police. Whether they`re interrogating him or not is a matter for the detectives and the people that work over in the prosecution. I can`t answer that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, maybe we can get to somebody who can answer that. Let`s go to Arlene Schipper. She is an Aruban defense attorney, but perhaps more important, she`s a former prosecutor. She knows all the prosecutors in this case. She has been following this from the very beginning. Why the delay?
ARLENE ELLIS-SCHIPPER, ARUBAN ATTORNEY: Well, I have to correct you. I`m not a former prosecutor. I was an assistant to the prosecutor. That`s first. The delay, from what I understand, has been only for the second day now that Joran has not been interviewed. I, as well...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait, let me stop you right there. Did you just say it`s only the second day since Joran has not been interviewed?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, from what I understand -- of course, I don`t have regular contact with the police. From what I understand from information that gets to us, it is the second day that he has not been interviewed.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, I`m going to stop you right there. I want to talk to you some more, but let`s go to the woman on the scene here in New York who seems to know everything about this case. She`s tracked it for us. Ellie (ph), my understanding, we talked about this, eight days since he has been interviewed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, that was our understanding, right. The last time he was interrogated, Thursday of last week, as far as we know.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thursday of last week.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: From what we hear.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think this is an illustration of why this case is so confusing. I mean, these are really basic facts, whether or not he has been interviewed or not.
But Arlene, I`d like you to continue, and I`d like to ask you a question about resentment because we heard a reporter talking in Natalee`s hometown about the people there in Alabama kind of resenting this massive coverage. I understand the people in Aruba are also resenting the massive coverage. Why?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, it`s not so much resentment. They understand very much why the family wants this massive coverage, and it takes nothing away from a girl to get this massive coverage and other girls that they don`t get. They understand that if you have pull and they understand the appeal of this story. However, what bothers the people here in Aruba are very unfounded remarks directed towards the Aruban people, who are very heartfelt with the family, and actually have nothing, no blame in this story whatsoever.
I mean, in your program, Nancy Grace on several and numerous occasions, has made such unfounded and very unfair remarks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I...
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: ... and that serves no purpose...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, give me an example. Give me an example.
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, I can give you an example of remarks that serve absolutely no purpose other than to ridiculize people...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, just give me one example.
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: ... who are involved...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... and then we`d like to talk to our psychologist.
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, for instance, when the pond -- for instance, when the pond was drained, those efforts were ridiculized, like -- with remarks like, What are they doing in Aruba? They`re clueless. They`re pumping it with a bicycle pump. Those remarks really hurt the people of Aruba. And you have to understand, all the resources -- we are a small community. There has -- all the resources that we have been allocated into this case, and then to be badgered like this, it just hurts people here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And to clarify, you`re not a former prosecutor, but you did work in the prosecutor`s office, so you are acquainted with some of the folks who are handling this case, right? You know some of the people who are prosecuting this case.
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Yes, I know some of the people who are prosecuting this case. I have worked there before. Karin Janssen I have not worked with. However, Ameline (INAUDIBLE), the second prosecutor who is involved in this case, I know her personally. She`s a very good prosecutor. She`s a person of high integrity, and I hold her in very high esteem. So I do trust our system.
And I`m the first one and the Aruban people are the first ones to criticize how the case was handled in the beginning. We are not people that just sweet-talk any mistake. We are very critical about those things, but remarks and criticism have to be founded and based upon real facts.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, let`s look at some of the criticism in a moment.
But first, I`d like to go to our psychologist here in New York, Lisa Kaplan Ashenmil. Why all this tension, resentment? This is the second day running. I mean, we heard from the searchers, one of the search teams is thinking of suing the other search team. There is a tremendous amount of tension surrounding this case right now.
LISA KAPLAN ASHENMIL, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there`s a lot of pressure. We`re all looking for information and data, and it`s just not coming forward. And I think what`s happening is, people are feeling like, I can do it better. No, I can do it better, and they`re getting very upset with one another. And it`s easier to take it out than...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the fact that there is no resolution, there are no new answers coming forward, that increases -- it`s like a pressure cooker.
ASHENMIL: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Every day that passes and we don`t get more evidence and we don`t get a break in the case, it`s like this pressure cooker keeps gets tighter and tighter, and people are really feeling the stress.
ASHENMIL: And they`re feeling desperate to get information, and they`re not getting it. And as a result, they`re going to become more hostile, more irritable and take things out on one another.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And who is feeling the pressure most ? Natalee Holloway`s mother. Let`s hear what she has to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE`S MOTHER: I`m just going to have to wait until September the 4th. I`m just going to have to wait to experience it, to see what we`re going to do.
We`re always thinking and putting different things into motion. As far as Deepak and Satish, I`m not giving up that they will not be re- arrested. I just -- I still think that that is a strong possibility.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, let`s look a little bit at some of the points that had been mentioned by critics in terms of possible bungling by some of the Aruban authorities. First of all, according to reports, they didn`t impound the Kalpoe brothers` car for 10 days, which we know Natalee was in the night she disappeared. While they took in various people who turned out to be in the clear, they did not take in Joran Van Der Sloot or the Kalpoe brothers for 10 days, and some felt that that allowed them possibly to get their stories together, what have you.
Let`s go to former prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair. She is in Houston, Texas. I assume you`re listening to all of this, Nelda. What are your thoughts on all this anger in Aruba right now, given some of those points that I just mentioned, criticisms of how Aruban authorities have handled this case?
NELDA LUCE BLAIR, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, there`s no question that those mess-ups from the beginning have certainly fueled the fire for people who are already upset with how the case is being handled. No question. And Arlene was correct. You know, there`s so many people there. They`re all trying to do their best jobs of trying to find out what happened to Ms. Holloway. And they`re going to cross over each other`s lines. It`s a small area. It`s going to be a difficult time, especially with the media attention.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and...
BLAIR: Go ahead.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I want to defend Nancy Grace because she has been keeping, possibly almost single-handedly, this story in the news. I mean, certainly, Natalee Holloway`s family is absolutely thrilled that she is keeping this story alive because it puts pressure on the authorities to solve this case, and she has been beating this drum and saying, Let`s come up with answers. So she may use a casual phrase to describe something, but her heart`s in the right place. She wants to find Natalee. She wants to find out what happened to Natalee.
Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario," you`re in Aruba. What are you sensing, in terms of the desire for truth from Aruban people? They want to know what happened, don`t they?
MANSUR: But of course they do. They`ve been after this from the beginning. The only thing we are interested in, as an Aruban people, is for the truth to come out, for this girl to be found in whatever shape she`s in, to be returned to her parents, so they can go back home, and they start their lives or start the mending process if anything bad happened to her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Michelle Suskauer, defense attorney, you have covered a lot of high-profile cases. Is this typical or is this really reaching a new level in terms of tension, resentment, argument, counter-argument? It`s pretty amazing.
MICHELLE SUSKAUER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It really is. And you know, there`s so much frustration, obviously. And this is the worst thing that`s ever happened to Aruba. This is the worst light that they`ve ever been in. And they depend on tourism. They want this solved, obviously. They don`t like the light that they`re in right now. They want everybody to go away, so that people will start visiting Aruba. So they`re very frustrated, but everybody is very frustrated.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me jump in right there because my understanding is that tourism is not down in Aruba. If anything, it could well be up. Jossy Mansur, what do you know about that?
MANSUR: Well, you can`t find a room anywhere in Aruba. You can`t find a seat in any plane that`s coming to Aruba. And we`re (INAUDIBLE) from Miami-Dade and from Puerto Rico, from New York. I mean, I don`t see any drop whatsoever. On the contrary, you are right that there is an increase.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And the vast majority of those tourists are American, are they not?
MANSUR: Almost totally.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, there you go. I think there is a tremendous love and affection between the people of America and the people of Aruba. I think the one thing that stands in the way is this big mystery, What happened to Natalee Holloway? And I know that Nancy Grace is back on Monday, and she is not going to rest until she finds out. Stay with us.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TWITTY: I just know that we have -- we have to have answers, and I know the answers are right here. The answers are right here on the island and, you know, we expect to get them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace, who, as we know, is doing everything she can to help solve this mystery in Aruba by keeping the pressure on, by keeping the spotlight focused on it.
We are talking about Natalee Holloway`s disappearance. And with every day that passes, it looks more and more like it could be a murder that might never be solved. If her remains are never found, could other charges are filed against suspect Joran Van Der Sloot, who has not been charged, it`s important to mention, with anything at this point?
Let`s hear what Natalee`s mom has to say about that issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TWITTY: There are so many different theories that we`ve -- that we`ve come up with in our family. We just go back to the two things that we know happened. And we know that Deepak and Satish Kalpoe and Joran Van Der Sloot took Natalee from Carlos and Charlie`s. And you know, I`ve not made it any secret that, you know, Joran Van Der Sloot had confessed in these sexual assaults that he committed against Natalee to us, her family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. So let`s go back now to Aruba and attorney Arlene Ellis-Schipper. What are your thoughts and what`s your information on other possible charges that could -- and I say could -- be filed possibly against Joran Van Der Sloot?
ELLIS-SCHIPPER: Well, first of all, "charge" is not a legal term in our lingo. What we have is first the arrest, and then, of course, counts, what you tell the suspect of what they`re being held for.
As what Joran Van Der Sloot at this moment is being held for in pre- trial detention ranges from murder to kidnapping, and from what I understand recently, also sexual misconduct with a person that is not conscious. Well, basically, I have not heard that confirmed by authorities, but those are some of the counts that he could be held for.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, so Nelda Luce Blair, former prosecutor, if we don`t know what happened that night, except from the statements of the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot himself, how do you come up with those charges? How do you determine that, for example, it wasn`t consensual?
BLAIR: Well, you absolutely do it from those statements. There`s no question that you can use any type of evidence, and if you don`t have a person or a body and you don`t have any other physical evidence, then you go with what the stories are of those people in the know. And if Arlene`s correct and he has confessed to some kind of sexual misconduct, obviously, he should be charged with it, whether it`s called charge or count or whatever.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And quickly, back to Jossy Mansur in Aruba. Is there a sense of tension tonight? We only have a few seconds, but what do you sense in Aruba from the people of Aruba, as this mystery continues on with no break in the case, really?
MANSUR: The people have certain tensions, of course, because we got so few information that is given out by the prosecution or the police, who have all the information that we don`t.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And exactly...
(CROSSTALK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And that`s what the defense says. They say they`re not being given the information by the prosecution, and they want that information, as well. So that`s another hearing on Monday that Joran has to attend and yet another delay because when he`s in a hearing, he can`t be interrogated, correct?
MANSUR: No, there will be a sentence on Monday. The hearing already took place with regards to the appeal that the lawyer of Joran made.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. OK. So we could find out...
(CROSSTALK)
MANSUR: ... information.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... good information. Thank you, Jossy. We could find out, essentially, Monday if the defense is going to get more files from the prosecution. So Monday could be a big day.
Now to "Trial Tracking." Take a look at Amanda Jones. She disappeared last Sunday, just days before she was due to become a mom for the second time. The day she vanished, Amanda went to the Hillsboro Civic Center just south of St. Louis, Missouri, to meet Brian Westfall (ph), who relatives say fathered her child. According to his lawyer, Westfall is not so sure he`s the father but is cooperating with investigators and has already met with them four times. Family members suspect foul play because Amanda was too pregnant to go very far on her own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HUBERT PROPST, AMANDA`S FATHER: That`s my baby! I love her! If she -- if he`d have left her at 2:00 o`clock in that car, she would have called! She would have called!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES WALKER, MARITIME ATTORNEY: The ship shouldn`t have left port. They could have taken the passengers off, refunded their money, made a claim for business interruption insurance and not be out of pocket anything. That ship shouldn`t have left Turkey. They should have had a team of forensic people on it, doing it at an appropriately early time. And what they did is they just turned the ship around and took off and kicked the band up and passed out pina coladas and the party continued.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace. Where is George Smith? The 26-year-old disappeared from his honeymoon cruise somewhere between Turkey and Greece 46 days ago. Still no arrests in the case, and the Smith family is not talking.
Tonight, in Stamford, Connecticut, private detective Vito Colucci of Colucci Investigations. But first to New York and "A Current Affair`s" correspondent and my old friend, Michael Bryant. What is the very latest on this one, Michael?
MICHAEL BRYANT, "A CURRENT AFFAIR": Jane, good to see you again. It`s like old times here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
BRYANT: Hey, I`ll tell you what the latest is and what the latest isn`t. The FBI, based on our sources, does continue to interview witnesses, some of whom we may have led the FBI to, and they continue to pursue that investigation.
But what is more important, what isn`t happening is people that have not been talked to. We talked to a crew member earlier this week, the first crew member to speak out about what happened that night and a guy that was with George Allen Smith within 10 to 15 minutes of his disappearance. As of this morning, he has not been spoken to by the FBI. So although the investigation continues, I still see a little bit of lag time between the official investigation and what we`re doing at "A Current Affair."
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Mike, this is a constant theme. And I understand you actually went to Turkey back in July to try to solve this mystery and got an understanding of the complexities of this case and why maybe it`s taking the FBI a little bit of time.
BRYANT: Yes, well, it`s unfortunate. And I gave the FBI the benefit of the doubt early on because they did step in a little later and they were handed a really horrible investigation by the Turkish authorities. You`re not going to see a spin-off of "CSI" called "CSI: Kusadasi, Turkey" any time soon. They don`t do great work there, and the FBI inherited that. Fine. But it`s been -- you said 46 days since -- so that means 45, 44 days since the FBI stepped in and got some of the case. That`s their problem from this point forward.
What we saw in Turkey was embarrassing. It really was. Perfect example, simple example. When Jennifer Hagel Smith was interviewed by the Turkish authorities, she had some cameras with her. They developed the film. They obviously had pictures of Jennifer with other shipmates. Now, instead of holding the ship and waiting until they investigated who she was hanging out with and what might have happened, they just said, you know, See you later, enjoy the rest of your trip. Jennifer went home via plane, and the cruise ship took off.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well, that does sound rather disturbing. But I have to tell you, we got a statement, actually, from Royal Caribbean, and they say, There seems to be some confusion about whether we secured, for example, the Smiths` cabin and the metal overhang. And basically, what they`re saying is that they did everything right and they actually kept these areas sealed way beyond the actual minimum that the authorities asked them to. So Royal Caribbean is saying that they did everything right. But of course, the mystery continues, and that is always, as we`ve seen in a number of cases, rather frustrating.
We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help in our way solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Tonight, take a look at Jason Jolkowski, 24 years old. He disappeared from Omaha, Nebraska, in June of 2001. Any information, call 402-444-5600. Please help.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts, and here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."
The Senate minority leader is doing well after suffering a mild stroke earlier this week. The episode is only being announced tonight. Doctors say Senator Harry Reid suffered no complications and there are no restrictions on his activities. They do recommend the Nevada Democrat take advantage of the summer recess for some down time.
A jury has found pharmaceutical giant Merck negligent in the death of a 56-year-old marathon runner who took the painkiller Vioxx and awarded his widow $253.4 million. It`s the first of thousands of lawsuits over Vioxx. Merck does plan to appeal.
The antiwar protest outside President Bush`s ranch continues without its leader today. But Cindy Sheehan, who is with her ill mom, says she will return as soon as she can.
Israeli troops used bulldozers to smash through flaming barricades, trying to evacuate the remaining Israeli settlements in Gaza. This was the last evacuation planned before the Sabbath, which many settlers will spend in hotels or government housing. Evictions could be completed by next week.
That is the news for now. Thanks for joining us. I`m Thomas Roberts. Back to NANCY GRACE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN DRAKE, PASSENGER ON CRUISE SHIP: I`m worried, definitely, that there was some kind of serious foul play. Unless you were playing king of the world, you know, it`s just not possible to fall over.
And I just -- there was so much blood and the distance from his balcony to that deck was not that great, you know, to generate that kind of injury. So, you know, I`m worried that something terrible happened to him, that he was pushed overboard. That`s what I`m worried happened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace, and we are trying to solve this mystery, what happened to George Smith?
I want to go back out to Mike Bryant. Do you find it absolutely astounding that they have not even told us whether the blood, that blood that we were just looking at on the side of the ship, belongs to George Smith?
BRYANT: Yes, and what I`m most afraid of is that the sampling was botched somehow is Turkey, that the information that was turned over to the FBI was insufficient to make the analysis they need to make. I hate to think that, but based on everything else I`ve seen, it`s a distinct possibility.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to our private detective, Vito Colucci, of Colucci Investigations. Why would they not tell us at least that this is the blood of the person who we`re all wondering what happened to?
VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE DETECTIVE: You know, I`m so glad you asked me that specific question, Jane. Tim Green and his staff have done a remarkable job in this case. They`re the Holloway family of this case, keeping it active and everything else.
But you got to remember one thing: The FBI is going to handle this. They want to be in total control of this case. Look what`s happening in Aruba. People are coming and going to that island. No one is in charge of this. Now you`ve got one group going to sue somebody else.
The FBI wants is done their way. And when they solve the case, all will be forgiven, and then they`ll explain their activities on this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And obviously, there are similarities with these two cases. Missing cases, it`s dragging on, we`re not getting new information, and they both involve water.
You know, there is a great book called "And the Sea Will Tell" about a murder -- totally different case -- on a deserted island. But sometimes the sea won`t tell. Is that the common denominator that is adding to the mystery, the fact that there`s water involved in both of these cases?
COLUCCI: Definitely. My opinion, without knowing a lot of the facts, just what we`ve been doing everyday, is probably two men tossed him overboard. That`s what I really feel.
As an investigator, you got to keep an open mind. You can`t just zero in on those three guys, OK? You got to keep an open mind to workers on the boat, whatever it may be.
But, you know, it`s a big difference. And I really feel -- and I`m going to make a statement -- I really feel the FBI will solve this case soon. I really feel that way. And I think all will be forgiven. Like I said, they`ll explain a lot of the things that we don`t even know about the case right now.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I certainly hope you are right. But just in the event that you`re wrong, let`s go to former prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair.
At what point do authorities say, "We`re not getting anywhere. This is costing us a lot of money. We`re not getting any new leads. We`ve got to just back off" and it goes sort of in the unsolved file?
BLAIR: We`re probably a long way away from that, because I think one of the reasons that we, the general public, are not hearing anything is that that investigation is hot. The FBI has all kinds of information that it`s probably now gathering.
Granted, the boat left. As the U.S. attorney said, it`s a moving crime scene. And people dispersed out of it to all different nations. But the FBI, as your other speaker just said, is on board. They`re the ones that will make this crime a solved crime. And I believe that. I think that they`ll make it happen.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, I don`t really buy that whole argument about, "It`s an international crime scene and everybody`s dispersed." Guess what? There`s something called a telephone, and there`s also passenger manifest lists. Every single person has to be reached for them to be booked on that cruise ship.
Mike Bryant, that excuse has come up over and over again, but yet the news media has reached all these people. It doesn`t seem to track why a lot of these people haven`t been interviewed by the FBI.
BRYANT: Yes, I don`t get it. I mean, obviously, we`ve continued to advance the story, finding people that we`ve effectively then hand over to the FBI. And so far, some of them have been interviewed. Some of them have not.
Why that`s going on, I don`t know. And why they`re so quiet about trying -- why the FBI is so quiet about trying to get people to come forward, I don`t understand that, either. It wouldn`t be a difficult thing to do. They wouldn`t have to divulge any of the secrets within the investigation. It`s simply a request for those involved in some way to step forward and help out.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s hear from a maritime attorney who has dealt with these kinds of issues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES WALKER, MARITIME ATTORNEY: This is the typical situation that we see, unfortunately, in passenger injury or death cases. The investigation seemed to start slow. The cruise line, of course, has already run this through their risk management department.
They`ve sent their attorneys, their defense attorneys, their trial attorneys, from Miami to the scene. The passengers have scattered. The crime scene is now floating around in international waters from port to port. It`s going to be a very difficult situation.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And of course, we`ve invited all of the parties involved here, the families, both families, as well as these three young men, who say they were good Samaritans, and that George Smith was intoxicated that night, and they helped him back to the room, and that`s all they did.
But they`ve kind of become a focus in this case, although there are no suspects and they are not considered persons of interest. But I want to ask defense attorney Michelle Suskauer, if they don`t get any new leads and these three young men feel somehow tainted, do they have any legal recourse?
SUSKAUER: You know, they may, but I want to talk about also the integrity of the evidence, because I think that`s significant. And I`m hoping the FBI solves this, but it doesn`t look like they`re moving as fast as maybe they should have, because of what the Turkish officials did and did not do.
And there`s some problems with the integrity of the evidence here, which is something that defense lawyers look at all the time and that prosecutors need to be aware of. And there are some major mistakes.
And just like in the Holloway case, in the very beginning, the prosecutors and the police really let this fall and lost a lot of precious time. That`s exactly what`s happened here. And just like you said, Jane, I don`t know if this sea is going to be forgiving here, and we may never find out truly what happened to this man.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to go back to Mike Bryant, because he was actually there in this port city that the boat, the cruise ship, arrived at shortly after George Smith disappeared and, apparently, at the time they were saying, "Hey, it was 9:30 in the morning. We can`t find him," and the captain calls the police.
People were already in that port town of Kusadasi, I should say. You were there. Couldn`t a suspect take evidence off the cruise ship and dispose of it in the town before authorities had even been contacted or right around that time?
BRYANT: Well, you know, if you look at the time frame, we know that, as of 7:00 in the morning, there was already the search was under way, and there`s a high-tech kind of pass-code that you need to use to get off the boat, and, in fact, one of the boys, one of the gentleman in question, didn`t get off the boat. They wouldn`t let him get off the boat. He had been prohibited from getting off the boat, and his parents were pulled off an excursion.
So I think they really did control who came and went from the boat. But the fact is, they were cleaning up the mess so quickly, you know, I`m afraid any blood samples got 409 in it. I mean, it`s just -- they cleaned this thing up so fast that people coming and going didn`t have a lot of time to remove evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, now, I know you were there, Mike, but apparently you were not able to actually get on board the ship.
BRYANT: Not for lack of trying.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: How do you know that they...
(LAUGHTER)
Right. I know you, and I`ve been on stakeouts with you. And I know you would do anything to get on board that ship. But how do you know that your claim, they didn`t clean it up that fast?
BRYANT: No, I think they did clean it up that fast. That`s what I`m saying.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I mean, how do you know they cleaned it up so fast, is what I`m saying? I mean, they say -- Royal Caribbean says that they absolutely kept it well beyond the minimum amount of time required by the authorities, that it was sealed off, that there was forensic testing in that room, that everything was done. And it was only well after they were given the OK to release it that they released it.
BRYANT: Yes, well, look who is giving them the OK. It`s basically the Turkish authorities. And if you don`t think this is all about money, you`re crazy, because the Turkish port and every vendor in that port makes money when these boats come chugging in there.
So the sooner this thing is cleaned up, the sooner the crime scene is released to be cleaned up, the better for everybody. This is not like a building in New York that is going to be clamped down the minute some sort of crime scene is created or discovered. It doesn`t happen that way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Two mysteries that are really just going on, and on, and on, and the pressure is mounting on both of them.
Mike, so great to see you again. Thank you so much.
Now to "Trial Tracking." This morning, a judge sends George and Jennifer Hyatte back to Tennessee, where the couple blasted their way out of a courthouse last week. The Hyattes will stand trial there for the murder of Wayne "Cotton" Morgan, whom they are accused of killing during their getaway.
Authorities pursued the couple in three states, finally catching them at a Columbus motel, after their cab driver called police with a crucial tip.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON KINSELLA, BETH GEISEL`S ATTORNEY: How could someone be carted off to jail from their ordinary life and not have regrets about anything?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace.
Tonight, a Catholic school teacher at the center of a school sex scandal has another run-in with the law. This time, 42-year-old Beth Geisel was charged with drunk driving. Now, earlier this month, Geisel was charged with raping a 16-year-old student, but she has been free on bail, that is until today.
Tonight, in Albany, New York, attorney Mae D`Agostino. She represents Christian Brothers Academy, the school at the center of this scandal. But first, to WROW-AM`s program director, Paul Vandenburgh.
Bring us the latest.
PAUL VANDENBURGH, PROGRAM DIRECTOR, WROW: This morning, she was arrested on Morton Avenue here in Albany, charged with driving while intoxicated. She`s in jail this evening in Albany county jail. Her bail has been revoked, and, from what I understand, late this afternoon, the people that represent her don`t know when they`re going to re-file to try to get her out of jail, but I would assume it will be early next week they`ll try to get her out of jail again.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know, we just got a comment from her attorney, Don Kinsella. He called us just before the show and had a couple of things to say.
And, Elizabeth, if we could throw up some of those graphics.
"She`s someone who a group of teenage young men singled out as being vulnerable and took advantage of the situation," is one comment. But he also went on to say, "She has got a problem, alcohol, that she needs to deal with. Also, society has a problem with packs of teenagers who run on the loose and take advantage of vulnerable people."
First of all, I think it`s time to go to our psychologist on the set, Lisa Kaplan Ashenmil. This is a very sad case for this woman. She obviously, as her own attorney admits, has a severe alcohol problem. Now, with alcohol, people hit bottom.
ASHENMIL: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And she, apparently, has not yet hit bottom. You`d think the first scandal, the sex scandal, would be a moment of clarity, you would wake up and say, "My gosh, I have got a serious problem."
ASHENMIL: Not necessarily.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But with alcohol, which is a very severe addiction, when you hit bottom is when you hit bottom.
ASHENMIL: Exactly. And the fact that she`s now in jail, after a drunk driving incident, is just another way of her trying to cope with her situation, whatever situation that might be, whether it`s the sex scandal, the sex abuse, or whether it`s what`s been going on in her personal life for the last year, in terms of her separation from her husband...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So how does she break through? How does this woman who -- I think we have to have some compassion for her.
ASHENMIL: Sure.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She`s sick.
ASHENMIL: Absolutely. She`s got a lot of problems, probably both, you know, both chemical, as well as emotional problems. Maybe she`s drinking as a result of depression. It`s a possibility. It`s a coping mechanism for her. Maybe there`s a family history of alcoholism.
There`s a lot about her that we don`t know and, as a result, it makes it a little bit harder for me. However, she has a lot of different things, negative things in her life, a lot of strikes against her at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, well, let`s go to the attorney for the school where Beth worked and Mae D`Agostino. Her attorney has said Beth Geisel is a victim in all of this. What is your response?
MAE A. D`AGOSTINO, ATTY. FOR CHRISTIAN BROTHERS ACADEMY: Well, I really don`t know the facts of the criminal case, but I can tell you that, obviously, we all know that Mrs. Geisel has a problem. The alcohol, I`m sure, explains what happened, but I don`t think it excuses it.
As between Mrs. Geisel and a 16- and a 17-year-old boy, the teacher should have been in a position to say no. But it`s always very troubling for me to hear the sound bite, "Scandal at CBA, the Catholic school."
The fact that this is a Catholic school had absolutely nothing to do with what happened. I think it`s very unfair to the school. This is a superb school. This is a school that fired this teacher the moment they heard of the accusation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me ask you about that, because actually there has been some criticism that the school knew about some allegedly inappropriate behavior on her part before this scandal ever broke, that there was a school trip for spring break in which she allegedly behaved very inappropriately. Was anything done when those first reports came out, before this scandal broke?
D`AGOSTINO: Let me just say to you that all of these reports have come about since Mrs. Geisel was arrested. And they`ve primarily come from an attorney in Albany who has said very terrible things about CBA, which simply cannot be substantiated.
We absolutely reject the principle that there was anything going on, on a school trip, on a field trip, on a skiing trip, or anything like that, that the administration was aware of before Mrs. Geisel was arrested. On the day...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I can tell you that this case has also spun out of control in another way. And I`d like to ask Paul Vandenburgh about this, the program director at the radio station.
There are blogs all over the Internet on this whole case. Obviously, it`s very salacious. It involves sex. It involves drinking. And it involves a young woman who has been -- well, she`s 42, but she`s attractive -- and teenaged boys, and what do you know about these blogs? Because, apparently, they`re revealing or making allegations that are very, very scandalous. And even the prosecutor responded to them.
VANDENBURGH: Yes, there`s a lot of urban myths out there, Jane, about this case. You`ve got to listen closely to what Mae had to say about this.
The school has acted appropriately here. When the school had evidence that this woman was involved with a young boy, the evidence was brought by a local police department, they fired her six hours later. She cleaned out her desk the next day. The school has handled this responsibly.
There are also stories up here, brought out by Mr. Kinsella, that these boys may have been a little aggressive in trying to obtain sex from Mrs. Geisel. There`s also a bit of a problem now with the story today, in that it`s crystal clear now that this woman has a drinking problem. She`s been to detox units a couple of times since Memorial Day.
This is a woman who clearly has a drinking problem, that may or may not have been in a position to give consent to what happened here. But believe me, Jane, there are urban myths out there.
Let me touch on one. There`s a story up here about all of these pictures that allegedly are out there of Mrs. Geisel. I`ve been begging people to send them to me for weeks. I haven`t seen one yet.
There`s also another urban myth about some sexual activity that took place in the back of a bus. Nobody can confirm it. I`m told that the D.A. and one of his assistants tried to confirm it with the alleged victim and they were told that it never happened.
So there`s a lot of myths, and the blogs may be adding to the myths that are going on up here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, of course, it`s all because it`s such a juicy story, but I feel compassion for everybody involved in that case. It`s pathetic. It`s sad. And let`s hope she gets the help she needs to ultimately pull it together, even if it is just to face the music.
Thank you.
To tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for Frantz Dieudonne, wanted in connection with sex crimes with a minor. He has been indicted in both Utah and Illinois.
He`s 45, 5"7`, 145 pounds, black hair, black eyes. If you have any information on this man, please call the FBI, 312-431-1333.
Local news next for some of you, but we will be right back. And remember, live coverage of daycare homicide trial, Monday, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."
Please stay with us, as we remember Specialist John O. Tollefson, just 22 years old, an American hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace. We`re talking about Beth Geisel. She was arrested back in December for DUI. She was arrested again for DUI. And of course, she also is in the middle of this sex scandal, charged with statutory rape involving a 16- year-old boy. And there are apparently two 17-year-old boys involved.
Let`s go back to the attorney for the school where she once worked, Christian Brothers Academy. Are you facing any legal action at all, the school?
D`AGOSTINO: No, right now, the school is not involved in any legal action. But, of course, there is always the possibility of that. We hope that the young men and their families involved will not bring an action against CBA. We hope that they will understand that.
This teacher obviously had a breakdown at some point. She obviously turned to alcohol. And there`s really nothing that the school could have done to stop this. And again, once the school had any knowledge of it, she was immediately fired from the school, told never to come back, and the police began an investigation, and continue the investigation.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to thank you for taking the time to be with us tonight. And so often, we just get no comment. It`s really refreshing to hear an attorney decide to join us and give their opinion and their perspective on what is going on.
And I`d like to just close off with Lisa Kaplan Ashenmil. Of course, complicating this whole issue is that she is an older woman with younger men, but that does not mean we should take this any less seriously, even though society sometimes gives us those indicators, briefly.
ASHENMIL: Absolutely, men who are victimized are often afraid to come forward, and the fact that these young men are coming forward is very, very important. They will be impacted. And this is a very serious issue that should not be swept under the carpet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Crime is crime, no matter what the gender. And once again, we do hope that woman does get some help.
I want to thank all of our guests for their insights tonight, and thanks to all of you for tracking these important cases right along with us. I also really want to thank the entire staff of the NANCY GRACE show for their really amazing work, helping me, guiding me all this week. I`m sure I made some mistakes, but I did my best. But they are such pros.
Thanks to Nancy Grace, most of all, for giving me the great privilege of filling in for her. Nancy Grace is back on Monday, so make sure to join her, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, have a terrific weekend.
Bye. It`s been fun.
END
