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The Situation Room
Interview With Bob Dole; Pat Robertson Calls For Assassination of Venezuelan President; Northwest Strike Affecting Stock
Aired August 23, 2005 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Wolf Blitzer. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information arrive at one place simultaneously. Standing by, we have CNN reporters across the United States and around the world who will bring us the day's top stories happening right now.
It's 3:00 p.m. in Venezuela, where the leftist president Hugo Chavez would be a target for assassination if Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson had his way.
In Baghdad, it's 11:00 p.m. Iraqi leaders arguing over their future in smoke-filled rooms, as the death toll rises for American troops.
And it's 3:00 p.m. in Orlando, Florida, where former Senate leader and presidential candidate Bob Dole is standing by for a special live interview.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Thou shalt kill? Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson says the United States should assassinate Venezuela's leftist president, Hugo Chavez. Calling Mr. Chavez a danger to the region, Robertson says the time has come to -- quote -- "take him out." Mr. Chavez is a close ally of Cuba's Fidel Castro.
CNN's Lucia Newman is standing by live in Havana.
But let's begin right here in Washington. CNN's Kimberly Osias has all the details. Kimberly?
KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, Pat Robertson is certainly no stranger to controversy. In fact, some would say this man courts it. As leader of the Christian Coalition, Robertson has an enormous following. He even made a run for the White House back in 1988. So, when Robertson speaks, people listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE 700 CLUB")
PAT ROBERTSON, "THE 700 CLUB": He has destroyed the Venezuelan economy and he's going to make that a launching pad for communist infiltration and -- and Muslim extremism all over the continent. You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination. But if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSIAS: Now, that was when the whole maelstrom started. It was on his syndicated television show, "THE 700 CLUB" yesterday.
Now, it's important to point out two things here. One, the assassination of a foreign sitting leader is illegal, and America imports more than 10 percent of our foreign oil from Venezuela.
Although President Bush has yet to comment on Robertson's call, State Department spokesperson Sean McCormack did repudiate Robertson's comments earlier this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEAN MCCORMACK, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: ... Pat Robertson is a private citizen, and that his views do not represent the policy of the United States, that we do not share his view and that his comments are inappropriate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
OSIAS: One theologian I spoke with earlier today said Robertson's comments were un-Christian and chilling. Wolf?
BLITZER: All right, Kimberly Osias, thanks very much.
So, who is Hugo Chavez, and why is Pat Robertson so worried about him? For starters, he has got a good friend. That would be Fidel Castro in Cuba.
Let's go to Havana. Our bureau chief there, Lucia Newman, is standing by on the phone.
What is the reaction to what Pat Robertson has said, Lucia?
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: Wolf, I'm sorry. I'm at the airport right now, waiting for President Chavez and Fidel Castro to arrive. And a plane just over-flew and I couldn't hear your question. So, could you ask me again?
BLITZER: What's the reaction, Lucia, to what Pat Robertson has said about Hugo Chavez?
NEWMAN: Well, first of all, President Chavez himself hasn't said anything yet. He was supposed to have left this country, Cuba, where he's been for four days, to go to Jamaica several hours ago. Instead, he has been conferring, we understand, all day with President Castro. But, however, his vice president from Caracas did react. Jose Vicente Rangel says that the ball is now in the court of the U.S. government to show that it won't tolerate for this kind of what they call almost fascist behavior, terrorist comments to assassinate a world leader -- that the United States -- that the U.S. administration has got to do something about it. That's quoting Vice President Jose Vicente Rangel.
We do understand, though, that President Chavez himself will make a statement in the next few minutes. And we will, of course, get back to you on that. Wolf.
BLITZER: The relationship that he has with Castro, talk a little bit about the special relationship between Chavez and Castro.
NEWMAN: Well, President Chavez, from the day he got elected, had said that his great inspiration has been President Fidel Castro.
When I asked him a year ago what was the difference between him and Castro, seeing that they dress alike and often talk alike, he said, the difference is that Fidel is a communist and I'm not.
Now since he said that, however, President Chavez has said that now he and his Bolivarian Revolution, as they call it, are heading toward socialism. So, it's not quite so clear anymore just what their differences are. They are very close. He says that President Castro is his inspiration and that there are many things about the Cuba model that he would like to copy. Wolf.
BLITZER: Lucia Newman, we will stand by to see what President Chavez says. Lucia Newman on the scene for us. Chavez and Castro standing by to speak to reporters. We will go back there as soon as we get that.
Also, coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Venezuela responds to Pat Robertson in Washington. I will speak live with Ambassador Bernardo Alvarez Herrera. He's the Venezuelan ambassador to the United States. That's coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM during our 5:00 p.m. Eastern hour, about two hours from now.
Other news we're following, President Bush says he can sympathize with Cindy Sheehan, the mother of a fallen soldier who has led antiwar protests near his Texas ranch. The president is continuing his month- long vacation. He's in Idaho today, where he spoke to reporters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She expressed her opinion. I disagree with it. I think immediate withdrawal from Iraq would be a mistake. I think those who advocate immediate withdrawal from not only Iraq, but the Middle East, would be -- are advocating a policy that would weaken the United States.
So, I appreciate her right to protest. I understand her anguish. I have met with a lot of families. She doesn't represent the view of a lot of the families I have met with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: President Bush also said that Iraq's Sunnis, who object to the draft constitution backed by Shiites and Kurds, will have to choose whether they want to live in freedom or in violence.
While the president today applauded the efforts of Iraqi leaders to draw up a new constitution, the Defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, concedes the document by itself won't end the violence in Iraq. Let's go live to our national security correspondent, David Ensor. He's covering the Pentagon today. David?
DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, the secretary said that this business of writing a constitution is extremely difficult, and patience is needed as the Iraqi people work on it.
And if he's worried at all about declining poll numbers showing fewer Americans favoring the war and supporting the president on that and other issues, he certainly didn't show it in the briefing room today. He was asked whether the -- whether the war can continue, whether the U.S. effort in Iraq can continue, if it doesn't have strong support from the American public. This was his answer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: I think it will have the support of the American people and it will be sustained and we will be successful. And the alternative would be to turn that country and 25 million people over to terrorists and the kinds of people who have used chemicals on their own people and chemicals on their neighbors. That's not a happy prospect. That would be to turn to darkness.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ENSOR: He was asked what he would like to say to Cindy Sheehan, the mother who lost a son in Iraq and who has been protesting outside the president's ranch.
He said, it has to be a heart-wrenching thing for each of the families involved. Our task is to try to help them and the country understand the importance of the work that's being done.
Finally, Wolf, on the subject of Pat Robertson's controversial remarks about the president of Venezuela, Mr. Rumsfeld said, that would be against the law. We don't do that kind of thing here at the Department of Defense. Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, David Ensor, thanks very much for that report.
Let's move on to the "Cafferty File," Jack Cafferty standing by live in New York. He has got his question of today, at least the question for this hour.
Jack, what do you got?
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: You know, before we get to it, I mean, it just doesn't get any better than this. You get up in the morning, you come to work, you find out that this Pat Robertson, this devout leader of the Christian right in this country, is suggesting somebody ought to go down there whack Cesar Chavez (sic). I mean, you can't make this stuff up. If they were doing a show in Hollywood, the scriptwriters couldn't do any better. Strange stuff. Strange stuff. We will get to that later in the show. Right now...
BLITZER: All right, one correction, though, Jack. It's Hugo Chavez, not Cesar.
CAFFERTY: It's Hugo. What did I say? Not -- no -- Cesar, I'm sorry. He's the leader of the agricultural guys out there in California. My error.
BLITZER: All right.
CAFFERTY: A Washington, D.C., radio station has fired a talk show host because he wouldn't apologize for calling Islam a terrorist organization.
July the 26th, WMAL Radio's Michael Graham called Islam a terrorist organization 23 times during his show. He said -- quote -- "Moderate Muslims are those who only want to kill Jews" and -- quote -- "The problem is not extremism. The problem is Islam."
The Council on American-Islam Relations complained. Some advertisers said they wanted to have their ads pulled from Graham's show.
The station is owned by Disney. They suspended Graham without pay, said he could come back if he read a statement that his comments were -- quote -- "too broad" and if he spoke to both advertisers and employees. He refused. And he's been fired.
The question is this. Should talk show host Michael Graham be fired for calling Islam a terrorist organization? You can e-mail us at CaffertyFile -- one word -- @CNN.com. We will read some of the letters a bit later.
BLITZER: Jack Cafferty, we will look forward to that. Thanks very much. Jack is joining us from New York, as he does every day.
Still to come here in THE SITUATION ROOM, Bob Dole one on one. Does he think the president has mishandled the war in Iraq? And what does he have to say about Pat Robertson's call for the assassination of the Venezuelan president? I will ask Pat -- I will ask Bob Dole, that is, some serious questions.
Plus, secret audiotapes. Who recorded New York's governor, then sent the tapes to a newspaper? We will take a closer look.
Also, a high-profile model arrested in Indonesia. Police say she had ecstasy on her. Will this cover girl do hard time? We will have the story.
And, later, labor difficulties. Northwest -- mechanics are on strike, but still in the air. Ali Velshi, he's on the scene for us. He'll take us under the hood of a plane. We will find out what it really takes to keep those aircraft in the skies.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back. Our Ali Velshi is on the road today, following a story here in the United States. Let's bring him in. He has got a preview of what he has in store for us.
Ali, you look like you're not in New York.
ALI VELSHI, CNN ANCHOR: I'm not in New York. I'm near Boston. I'm at WyoTech Aviation -- Aeronautic -- what do we call this?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aviation Maintenance School.
VELSHI: Aviation maintenance schools, where mechanics learn how to be mechanics.
And, in fact, I'm with John Goglia, who was a member of the NTSB, a board member of the NTSB. He was a mechanic for over 30 years with United and U.S. Air. And he's giving me a lesson in how to maintain planes, because we're under a real 727, Wolf. And it's a plane that's used to train mechanics, but I'm getting a real sense of what they do. We know what pilots do. We know what flight attendants do. We know what baggage handlers do. But I am getting a sense of how important maintenance is on a plane and all the little things that happen on it. And it is truly fascinating. Wolf.
BLITZER: The -- it takes on importance, a special importance, because of the Northwest Airlines strike.
VELSHI: Yes, because what we've got at Northwest, we've got the mechanics union on strike. And there are a lot of mechanics in that union. There are some custodians and cleaners. But one of the arguments that Northwest has been making is that they can change the way they do their aircraft maintenance.
Now, they have managed to stay in the air for a while. But, today, we are getting reports that they have got more delays and cancellations than they used to.
And what my guest is going to explain to me a little later on is why that happens, how these delays start to happen, what they can lead to, and the kind of maintenance that has to be done to keep these planes safe and in the air.
And the most important question, Wolf, is from the prospective passengers. Should they be concerned? What do you need to know about aircraft maintenance and mechanics?
BLITZER: And the whole point is that what Northwest is now trying to do, some of the other airlines, the more successful airlines, let's say, like JetBlue, they are already doing. And -- and that in effect is outsourcing some of the mechanical problems. We're going to get to that in a moment, Ali.
VELSHI: Yes.
BLITZER: Stay with us. We have a lot more with Ali.
VELSHI: OK.
BLITZER: But I want to get back to our top story, Pat Robertson suggesting that the United States go ahead and kill the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez.
The Venezuelan ambassador here in Washington is now holding a news conference over at the Venezuelan Embassy, Ambassador Bernardo Alvarez Herrera.
Let's listen to what he's saying.
BERNARDO ALVAREZ, VENEZUELAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: We would like to thank the American people for the support they have offered us in the wake of Reverend Pat Robertson's calls for the murder of our president, Hugo Chavez.
The messages of support have flooded our embassy electronics and voice mails. We are very disappointed with Pat Robertson's statement over the Christian Broadcast Network. Mr. Robertson is, of course, no ordinary private citizen. He was a candidate for the GOP presidential nomination in 1992.
The organization that Mr. Robertson leads, the Christian Coalition, claims nearly two million members and has a multimillion- dollar-a-year budget. In 2000, it was credited with helping George W. Bush win the important South Carolina primary and catapulting him to the nomination of his party for president.
Mr. Robertson has been one of this president's staunchest allies. His statement demand -- his statement demand the strongest condemnation by the White House.
Mr. Robertson calls that U.S. government covert operative murder President Hugo Chavez is a call to terrorism. His call that President Chavez violently impose the outdated moral doctrines on Venezuela is a call for the American intervention in the sovereign affairs of our democratic country.
The United States must not permit its citizens to use its territory and airwaves to incite terrorists abroad and the murder of a democratically elected president. Venezuela demands that the U.S. abide by the international and domestic law and respect our country and its president.
Pat Robertson's statement must be condemned in the strongest term by the Bush administration. And we are concerned about the safety of our president. It is essential that the U.S. government guarantees his safety when he visits this country in the future, including his scheduled visit to the United Nations in New York. From the messages we have received, it is clear that Pat Robertson does not speak for Christians in the U.S., not even for the Christian Coalition, when he calls for the assassination of our president.
Thank you very much.
BLITZER: There's the statement from Ambassador Bernardo Alvarez Herrera, the Venezuelan ambassador to the United States, clearly condemning what Pat Robertson has said, suggesting -- suggesting -- that Pat -- that the United States go ahead and assassinate the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez.
Let's listen a little bit more to what the ambassador is saying.
ALVAREZ: It's clearly established in the Bible that you don't kill anybody.
QUESTION: How do you think President Bush should speak to Mr. Robertson? Do you think there should be some sort of apology that comes through that direction?
ALVAREZ: I think the -- should be the strongest condemnation, possible strongest condemnation by the White House to the statement of Pat Robertson.
QUESTION: Has your president spoken with Mr. Bush?
ALVAREZ: Sorry?
QUESTION: Has there been a conversation with the White House through...
ALVAREZ: These days?
QUESTION: ... your embassy or through anyone else?
ALVAREZ: No. No.
QUESTION: There has been no conversation with the president at this time?
ALVAREZ: No.
QUESTION: Mr. Ambassador, you referred to the coming visit of President Chavez to New York. My question is, are you planning to ask for some kind of extra measures to guarantee his security while he is in the United States?
ALVAREZ: Yes, of course, because we want -- we are concerned about the safety of our president. And measures should be taken from now to guarantee the safety of President Chavez in this country any time he visit this country, particularly when there is a public call directed to the U.S. administration to promote the use of covert operations, because while I think -- what we think is important in this case is that we are not using the work covert operation. It is Mr. Robertson who has said that they have to use the covert operation, because, among other things, it might be cheaper than going into a war with Venezuela.
QUESTION: (SPEAKING SPANISH)
ALVAREZ: Yes. Is there another question in English?
QUESTION: Yes.
ALVAREZ: Yes. Go ahead.
QUESTION: What do you make of the comments that were listed by the State Department's representative? You said that Pat Robertson is a private citizen and...
ALVAREZ: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
ALVAREZ: We think that Mr. Robertson is not, of course, only a private citizen.
We think that this is -- is -- is an important person to this country. And this is why we think and we expect the strongest condemnation by the White House. I have here only just sample of e- mails we have been receiving this morning. And it's all U.S. citizen supporting us and really expressing what -- the expressions of solidarity and -- and -- and against what this call for assassination of a president, from all -- all sides.
And we have also -- as you know, there has been a release by the National Council of Churches. Reverend Jackson just sent that to us few -- few minutes ago, a strong condemnation of that. And let me tell you that all those organizations are with us in this idea of having or expecting the strong -- the strongest condemnation to this call for a terrorist attack, for a terrorist action by Mr. Robertson.
BLITZER: And there it is, Ambassador Bernardo Alvarez speaking out, strongly condemning Pat Robertson, condemning what Pat Robertson said yesterday, suggesting that the United States go ahead and assassinate the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez, given the nature of the very nasty U.S.-Venezuelan relationship that has developed in recent years.
The ambassador, by the way, is going to be here in THE SITUATION ROOM. That's coming up during our 5:00 p.m. hour. We will press him on some of the tough issues that are at stake right now.
But we will move on to some other news in the meantime. Up ahead, Bob Dole one on one, the former senator standing by to join us live. I will ask him questions on Iraq, Pat Robertson, lots more.
Then, the Air Force hacked, tens of thousands of officers exposed. Find out how it happened. What happened?
Also, cover girl drug bust. A high-profile model arrested again in Indonesia and facing hard time. Police say she had ecstasy on her. We will have the story. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Welcome back.
The situation in Iraq, the situation with Pat Robertson's assassination proposal, and the Medicare situation, prescription drugs for seniors, all items in the news right now, all items my next guest knows a great deal about.
Bob Dole is a former Senate majority leader, a former Republican presidential candidate. He's joining us live now from Orlando, Florida.
Senator, always good to have you. Welcome to THE SITUATION ROOM.
BOB DOLE, FORMER SENATE MAJORITY LEADER AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about Pat Robertson, a man you know, you have dealt with over the years. What do you make of this proposal to take out the president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez?
DOLE: I don't know. It's hard to figure out what Pat Robertson is going to say next. I mean, it's hard to believe anybody can make Chavez a sympathetic-looking figure, but maybe Robertson can do it.
BLITZER: As far as you know -- and you know a great deal about this -- the prohibition against political assassination is pretty firm, although there is a little wiggle room out there. You remember the legislation and the -- Gerald Ford's executive order way back in 1976...
DOLE: Right.
BLITZER: ... prohibiting -- quote -- "political assassination."
DOLE: Yes, I remember it vaguely. But I -- you know, I think it's just off the wall. I mean, Pat Robertson is at it again. And I don't know who is going to straighten it out for him. But it just doesn't make any sense. It's ludicrous, ridiculous, irresponsible. I don't know how -- and, of course, there's no -- no reason President Bush wants to get involved in this. This is Pat Robertson's problem.
BLITZER: There's no doubt, though, that this -- among his supporters and many others in Central and Latin America, South America, this presumably will strengthen him, the irony.
DOLE: I would think so. I mean, whenever somebody makes such a stupid statement as Pat Robertson made, it's probably going to benefit, in this case Chavez. But I think maybe Robertson ought to be the one offering the apology, if he -- and he should do it very quickly.
BLITZER: All right. Let's move on to some other issues, including Iraq.
Here's what you wrote in the "Washington Post" more than a year ago, June 28, 2004. You wrote, "If we succeed, as I believe we will, the people of Iraq and their neighbors in the Middle East will benefit from political rights, civil liberties and freedom of a kind that the Arab world has never seen before."
Are you as upbeat now, a year later, as you apparently were then?
DOLE: I'm still where I was when I wrote that piece. I mean, it's not been the best of times for our efforts in Iraq, but I still think the goal is achievable. I think the goal is worthy.
I think we honor the young men and women who have sacrificed, either through wounds or the ultimate sacrifice, their lives. And, certainly, we do not honor them by talk of immediate pullout or setting some deadline or some exit strategy.
BLITZER: Listen to what your Republican colleague, Senator Chuck Hagel, though, of Nebraska -- you're from Kansas -- he's from Nebraska -- what he said in recent days. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I think we have destabilized the -- the Middle East by our involvement in Iraq, the way we did it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What do you make of Senator Hagel's clear concern? He speaks with some authority, as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee, but also himself as a Vietnam War veteran.
DOLE: Yes. Well, Chuck Hagel is a very bright guy and a very able senator and speaks with, as you said, with some authority.
But I think there's a lot of positioning going on among several Republicans and Democrats who may be thinking about certain plans in 2008. I don't say that's Chuck Hagel's case. But I -- I -- even though he served in Vietnam, that doesn't necessarily make him an expert on what is happening in Iraq.
It's tough there. The times are tough, not much good news coming out of Iraq. And it's pretty hard to stay the course. But I think President Bush will do it. And I think he must.
BLITZER: Let me ask you a quick question about Cindy Sheehan, that mother who lost a son in Iraq and has been protesting. The president spoke out on this today. Listen to what President Bush said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BUSH: I appreciate her right to protest. I understand her anguish. I met with a lot of families. She doesn't represent the view of a lot of the families I have met with. And I'll continue to meet with families. (END VIDEO CLIP)
BLITZER: What do you make of this whole uproar that has developed involving the president refusing to meet for a second time with Cindy Sheehan?
DOLE: Well, I thought originally the president, you know, initially -- it's been several weeks ago -- the president should do it before it got out of hand. But then it became sort of a circus.
And certainly Cindy Sheehan has every right -- she is a grieving mother -- she has a right to protest to say what she wants. But everybody else sort of jumped on the bandwagon, and I think the point was reached where it was probably not on the interest of the president to meet with her a second time.
BLITZER: Let's move on. There's a couple other issues I want to get to including what is happening with prescription drug benefits. Let's get to that. And then later, we'll talk about Judith Miller, the "New York Times" reporter and the CIA disclosure, the revealing of a CIA covert officer's name.
But, first, let's talk about prescription drug benefits, a critical issue. Forty-one million elderly Americans presumably would be eligible for this new prescription drug benefit that's going to come out. You've been trying to educate a lot of people. You're working on behalf of Pfizer, the drug company, to get the word out.
What's the single most important thing our viewers who might be eligible for this new benefit need to know right now?
DOLE: I think the most important thing to know is that this is a voluntary program.
If you are in a program now through your union, your employer or some state plan, you don't have to change. You are going to be presented at least two plans. And then you are going to compare those two plans with what you have.
If you don't have anything, then it's pretty obvious you want to take a hard look at the Medicare prescription plan.
What we're trying to do now is alert these 41 million seniors and some with serious disabilities that it's time to educate yourself, because on November 15, we start the enrollment period and that runs from November 15 until May 15.
But keep in mind it's voluntary. And particularly for the 14 million low-income Americans, this is a real bargain because they don't pay any premiums. There's no deductible. There's only a very small co-pay like they pay for each prescription maybe up to $5. If they live in a nursing home they don't pay anything.
So this is a very, very important program. There are no politics in it. It's the law of the land. And I just hope we can get seniors the information they need to make the right choice. BLITZER: It seems to me, based on what I know, that if you don't have any prescription drug benefits right now, it's a slam dunk. You got to go with this and try to save some money on your prescription drug benefits. But there are millions of Americans, elderly Americans who do have prescription drug benefits. Do they lose anything if they sign up for this?
DOLE: Well, they probably don't want to sign up. They want to compare what they have now to what they would get under the prescription drug plan. And if they are getting better benefits now, they don't want to change.
But what they want to keep in mind is that this prescription drug plan is a standby. Let's say they have a private plan and the company goes bankrupt in 10 years, they can still pick up where they left off with the prescription drug plan.
So it's out there. It's sort of, as I say, sort of stand by, sort of a fallback position. But it's going to cost billions of dollars, but it's going to benefit millions of Americans.
BLITZER: Let's switch topics to that CIA leak. You were very much involved in the 1982 law that prevented the disclosure of clandestine officers working for the CIA, the disclosure of their names. Do you believe that any crime based on what you know involving the disclosure of Valerie Plame Wilson's name in that Bob Novak column, do you believe any crime has been committed?
DOLE: I don't think so. You mentioned Judy Miller earlier. I just, for the life of me, can't see how she could commit any crime when she didn't publish anything. I mean, there's nothing of record. She didn't publish one word.
And I feel particularly strong in her case. That's why I've been speaking out for a federal shield law because 49 states now have a shield law and it protects people like Judy Miller and, I think, about 25 or 30 other journalists who might be caught in this trap.
BLITZER: Forty-eight days, she's been in jail so far. The prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, says she is in jail because she won't testify about her confidential sources before a grand jury. And he says unless you do so you're going to stay in jail.
DOLE: Well, I think you reach a point, though, where it becomes punishment rather than coercion. You're jailed for contempt to coerce you to talk. But if there's no chance at all you're ever going to say anything then it becomes punishment.
Then I think the judge has to take a look in Judy Miller's case of releasing her. She is not going to talk. She has been there, as you said, 48 days. She could be there until the end of this grand jury term some time in October. But I've been there. I visited with her. And I think she is steadfast in not revealing anything.
BLITZER: Bob Dole, thanks very much for joining us. And thanks for helping all of our seniors understand the stakes involved in these prescription drug benefits. Very important work that you do. And appreciate always having you especially here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
DOLE: Thanks, Wolf.
BLITZER: And coming up, an old tactic but a new target. A military database. It is hacked. We'll tell you what happened and what the military is doing about it.
And we'll have a live report from Iraq, comments from the Iraqi prime minister during an interview with CNN.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: Zain Verjee is joining us from the CNN Center with a look at some other stories making news including a developing story we're following now out of New York.
Zain, what is going on?
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, these are pictures that we're just receiving. We want to show you some aerial pictures in New York City just some minutes ago. There were a car accident in Midtown, Manhattan. Now, according to the Fire Department of New York, a car, this SUV jumped the curb and injured six people. Many people, as you can see in the pictures, just sort of standing around. But it's not really clear how severe those who have been injured are. This is an accident that happened on 39th and Broadway. We don't have a lot of information, but we'll bring you more as soon as we get it. Six people injured.
Meanwhile in the wake of London's deadly mass transit attacks last month, New York's transit systems announced a new $200 million security plan for its subways, buses and two commuter rail lines. The Metropolitan Transportation Authority today began installing closed- circuit cameras and motion detectors. When it's finished, the Lockheed Martin system will cover platforms, stations, terminals, bridges as well as tunnels. Completion is expected in three years.
The last settlers and protesters have been removed from two Jewish communities in the West Bank. In Sa-Nur, Israeli soldiers carried young activists one by one from a fortress rooftop to waiting cargo containers airlifted there for that purpose.
A similar scene in the West Bank settlement of Homesh. About 40 protesters sat locked together in a religious school until soldiers dragged them out, again one by one. Today's evacuations complete Israel's withdrawal of civilians from 25 settlements in Gaza and the West Bank. Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Zain, we'll get back to you. Thanks very much. Pat Robertson's assassination suggestion, coming up. It's receiving lots of news media attention. So, you can imagine the blogs must be buzzing. We'll tell you what they're saying. And she is deemed a beautiful woman in Indonesia. So why is she covering her face? We'll have details on this very arresting story.
And it's the stuff of political intrigue -- secret tapes of private conversations with top political figures. Now there are new tapes in New York. We'll tell who you is involved and why this governor wants the federal government to investigate.
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BLITZER: Welcome back. In Iraq today, an American soldier, an American contractor and five Iraqis died in a suicide bombing. The U.S. military also announced that three other American troops have died this week.
The casualties come as Iraqi politicians continue arguing over the new draft constitution. CNN's Aneesh Raman is joining us now live from Baghdad. I understand, Aneesh, you spoke with Iraq's prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari, earlier today?
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, I just finished, literally, an extensive interview with Ibrahim al-Jaafari on a wide range of subjects, beginning, of course, with the current constitutional impasse. He says that a compromise could still be reached by Thursday with the Sunni negotiators. He's in fact confident that it will be reached despite by many accounts that being a political miracle.
But he did he also suggest that if they do not find full compromise, this is a constitution, he says, that will pass; that the majority of Iraqis will vote. He does not think that the Sunnis nor the Shia who are against federalism, have enough votes to vote this referendum down by mid-October. So, he is fully confident in this process as one would expect, given that he is one of the leaders of the coalition. But he is suggesting that there could be conflict, Wolf, down the line -- political conflict with the Sunnis who are not in agreement with federalism.
I also asked him about U.S. troops in Iraq -- the recent suggestion that a worst-case scenario could keep them here for up to four years. He says that he expects U.S. troops to begin withdrawing in sizable numbers in the next year to two, but I'll be back later, Wolf, with excerpts from the interview itself.
BLITZER: All right. We'll look forward to that. Aneesh Raman in Baghdad, spoke with the Iraqi prime minister, Ibrahim al-Jaafari. We'll have those excerpts. That's coming up later here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Also coming up, the targets and the tactics. Computer hackers. They always seem to be changing. Now they've turned the keys on a new subject. We'll tell you who the hackers have forced their way into now.
And what are the mechanics of an airline strike? Our Ali Velshi will be on top of that story from under a plane. And it packs a punch without polluting the environment: It's called a Fetish and it's a first. But this thrill-ride doesn't come cheap. We'll tell you what is going on.
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BLITZER: Here's a quick look at some of the hot shots coming in from our friends over at the Associated Press; pictures likely to be in your newspapers tomorrow.
In Iran, demonstrators burning a U.S. flag in front of the British Embassy in support of Iran's nuclear policy.
Elsewhere in the Middle East, Jewish settlers burning an Israeli flag as they resist forced evacuation in Gaza.
In Idaho, President Bush in a candid moment with the news media.
And in Baghdad, Saddam Hussein being questioned by a judge. The former Iraqi dictator confirmed he had fired his entire defensive legal team other than Khalil al-Dulaimi.
Let's get back to our top story right now -- the televangelist Pat Robertson's call for the United States to actually assassinate the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez.
Our Havana bureau chief, Lucia Newman, is in Havana. She's joining us on the phone. Lucia, I understand you just spoke with President Chavez. What did he say?
NEWMAN: Indeed, I did. And he certainly is taking the high road, Wolf. He says that first of all, he's not here to talk about death. He has no comment about the death wish for him on the part of the U.S. evangelist. He says he's here to talk about life and that he doesn't know who he is and that he couldn't care less, to quote President Chavez.
On the other hand, he did send a message to the American people. He said that he was willing to sell Venezuelan oil at cut prices to poor people, to needy people in the United States who can't afford the price of fuel and gasoline. Wolf.
BLITZER: All right. I want you to collect your thoughts, Lucia. We're going to get back to you. We want to hear some of those remarks. We'll go in depth. Lucia Newman, our Havana bureau chief, has just spoken with the president of Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, in Havana -- a close ally of Fidel Castro, someone that Pat Robertson suggested yesterday the United States assassinate.
Zain Verjee once again standing by at the CNN Center in Atlanta. She's got another quick look at some other stories making news right now. Zain?
VERJEE: Wolf, the U.S. Air Force has discovered someone hacked into a military database and stole personal information on about half of its officer corps. The data on the roughly 33,000 officers includes Social Security numbers and birth dates. The military says the breach has, so far, not resulted in incidents of identity fraud. But it did advise officers to monitor their credit reports very, very carefully.
Indonesia says that it's not targeting Australians for drug violations. A 24-year-old Australian lingerie model is under arrest in Indonesia after police say they found her in possession of two tablets of the drug ecstasy. Michelle Leslie was taken into custody when police raided a dance party in Jakarta. Now, she could face up to 10 years in prison if convicted.
These pictures of the streets of Brienz, Switzerland say it all. Six people are dead and hundreds have been driven from their homes as Switzerland and its neighbors struggle with mass flooding. Days of torrential rainfall in the northern Alps is blamed for the disaster. Power is out, and drinking water is contaminated in several parts of the country. Parts of Germany and Austria have also been hit hard.
Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: Thanks very much, Zain.
Let's immediately head up to New York. Jack Cafferty is standing by. You're getting a lot of e-mails on this question that you have been asking this hour, Jack?
CAFFERTY: Getting a lot on this question and also on Pat Robertson. It's kind of a day for nuts on the air, if you know what I mean. A Washington, D.C. radio station firing a talk show host who refused to apologize for calling Islam a terrorist organization. Here's the guy here. July 25, WMAL's Michael Graham called Islam a terrorist organization 23 times. At one point he said -- quote -- "Moderate Muslims are those who only want to kill Jews," and -- quote -- "The problem is not extremism, the problem is Islam."
The question is should this guy have been bounced for making these kinds of inflammatory remarks?
Lots of mail. Anthony in San Diego writes, "Yes, he should have been fired. Free speech comes with certain responsibilities, one of which is not to infringe on the rights of others. By saying Islam is a terrorist organization, he's saying that all Muslims should be arrested for exercising their right of worship. If he said the same of my religion, I would demand no less."
Ed in Tampa, Florida. "He shouldn't be fired for his comments, distasteful and inaccurate as they are. This is talk radio, and left or right, accuracy should not be expected. But he should be fired because he offended the advertisers. They are, after all, the ones paying for his ability to exercise his right of free speech in front of a radio audience."
Paula in West Islip, New York. "No talk show host should be banned or fired from the airwaves for his own personal beliefs. What happened to the First Amendment? Disney, which owns that radio station, has all kinds of issues and skeletons in its closet. Who is kidding whom?" And finally, David in Omaha, Nebraska. "I agree Michael Graham should have been removed from the air. But so should that nut pie Pat Robertson."
That's the member of the Christian right who would like to go out and apparently have Hugo Chavez bumped off. I mean, that's one of the weirder things I have heard a public person come up with lately, Wolf.
BLITZER: I think we're going to get some of your e-mail on that question with Pat Robertson. That's coming up as well, Jack. We'll look forward to it. Appreciate it.
Coming up here in THE SITUATION ROOM, in the belly of the beast. An inside view of Northwest Airlines and its mechanics strike. Our Ali Velshi. Check this out. He's right there. He's standing by to show us what really happens on the ground. He's got a 727. We'll go to Ali. That's coming up next.
And later, when we go "Inside Politics", President Bush gets hit with more questions about Cindy Sheehan. Will either of them blink?
Plus, singer and sometime political activist Barbra Streisand. We'll check out the wartime theme of her new music video. Stay with us.
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BLITZER: Our Ali Velshi is joining us now with the "Bottom Line." He's traveled from New York to Bedford, Massachusetts. He's now under the belly of a plane with a unique view of the ongoing mechanics strike over at Northwest Airlines.
Ali, you look god over there. Tell us what is going on.
VELSHI: I'm at WyoTech Aviation Maintenance School. This is where they train people to be aircraft mechanics. And I wanted to sort of get a sense of what these guys do, women and men, over at Northwest and at the other airlines.
So I came down here. And this is a real 727 that Northwest Airlines actually had in operation for several years, and we were joined today by John Goglia. John is a graduate of this school. He's an aircraft mechanic who spent 30 years with United and U.S. Air. Then he was a member of the National Transportation Safety Board. He investigates accidents for the last several years.
And I want to get a sense from you, John, about what matters to a mechanic on an airplane? What are the things that you do on a daily basis? Aircraft like this have to go in after about 125 hours?
JOHN GOGLIA, FORMER NTSB MEMBER: An A-check (ph) is typically 125 hours. Before that, there's daily inspections and walk-arounds. Everybody has seen the pilots do walk-arounds. But mechanics also do walk-arounds. And they are looking for the same things the pilot's looking for and additional things.
VELSHI: Thanks to WyoTech for letting us be under this plane. It's been out of service for a while. So we're going to find a few things. But one of them that you said you might see was this. Tell me a little bit about this. And we'll get a look at it.
GOGLIA: What we have here is an actuator for this leading edge flap called (INAUDIBLE) flaps. And this shows some evidence of leaking. This is more like seeping than leaking. But you can see that there's fluid all over this area. And one of the clues that mechanics would use would immediately look at the ground. How much -- is there seepage on the ground? Or in this case, there is none, so that tells me this is a very minor leak and one that could probably be deferred.
VELSHI: You look at this one. There's actually -- it may be too hard for our viewers to see. I'm going to point it out. But there's actually liquid that's dripping there. This is the kind of thing that a mechanic might have to say...
GOGLIA: In this case, it's different because now we have an actual droplet hanging up there, actually, more than one. If you look at the ground, there's actually evidence it had been leaking on the ground.
So now, this one is a real leak. A determination would have to be made on what we would do with it.
VELSHI: So this plane is full and loaded? And you see this, you might have to do something? You might have to replace this or take this plane out?
GOGLIA: Well, my initial response if I saw this and it happened to be at the last second before departure, the airplane is not going anywhere until we make a determination. The determination is we have the crew cycle these flaps up and down repeatedly while we watch to see if the leak was growing in intensity or leaking actually a drop or two at every actuation. And if it was only a drop or two, we could probably let it go.
VELSHI: I got 20 seconds. I want to ask you, does it make any difference whether that work and this inspection and this replacement is done by a staff mechanic or an outsourced mechanic?
GOGLIA: Well, if the outsourced mechanic has got the same level of training, no. But, unfortunately, what we've seen most of the time is they don't.
VELSHI: You were saying that when you worked on planes like this they were kind of like your baby because you worked on them.
GOGLIA: Well, yes. There's ownership. Mechanics own the airplane. When I worked for the airlines that I worked for, these were my airplanes and I took offense to anybody that hurt my airplane.
VELSHI: Wolf, this is kind of the idea. One of the things I've been trying to get out with John is about what these mechanics do on a day-in and day-out basis because the issue here, as you said earlier, is a lot of airlines outsource a lot of their service and that isn't necessarily a reflection on what ends up happening on the plane.
John, you saying that part of the issue is that, it's the transition to that point.
GOGLIA: At this point in time, when we're transitioning from an operation at Northwest where 100 percent in-service was done, and we're trying to turn it over, overnight. That is a very difficult task to accomplish. It can be done, but it takes a lot of work. And it can show up as stresses inside your organization.
VELSHI: In terms of stresses, the stock at Northwest, Wolf, closing down about 4 percent. And there have been news of more delays at Northwest. But they are still flying a lot of planes. Wolf.
BLITZER: All right, Ali. We'll see you later. Thanks. Good work, appreciate it very much.
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