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Anderson Cooper 360 Degrees
Bush Meets with Families of Iraq War Dead; Cindy Sheehan Returns to Texas; Fetuses and Pain; Heart Health; Trent Lott Interview
Aired August 24, 2005 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Lou. Good evening to you and thanks. And good evening, everybody. President Bush meets with families who lost loved ones in Iraq, while anti-war mom Cindy Sheehan returns to her camp in Crawford, Texas.
It's 7:00 p.m. on the East Coast, 4:00 p.m. on the West Coast.
ANDERSON COOPER 360 starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: Brothers in arms and sacrifice for the country. The president thanks families who lost loved ones fighting in Iraq, and vows to stay the course. Tonight, what that means to Cindy Sheehan and those who question why the U.S. is still there.
The doctors opinion? You're too fat. But his patient didn't want to hear it. So now, he's got a lot of explaining to do. Is honesty always the best prescription?
The debate over abortion white hot once again. Researchers say a fetus cannot feel pain. How that affects the consequences of abortion.
And, a plane goes down in Peru, killing dozens on board. Tonight, darkness and panic. What should you do in a moment of crisis?
TRACY GROSS, FLIGHT ATTENDANT INSTRUCTOR: Brace, brace! Hold tight!
ANNOUNCER: Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Good evening. I'm Soledad O'Brien. Anderson's off tonight.
Here are some of the questions we'll be looking at over the next hour.
The war over hearts and minds here at home. Is there anything the president can do or say that would change your mind on Iraq? And what about Cindy Sheehan? An hour or so ago, she arrived back at the president's doorstep in Crawford, Texas. Will her diligence sway opinion against the war?
And escaping death. Another fatal passenger jet airliner crash. We're going to talk to a survivor. Would you know how to improve your chances in a crash?
And a doctor who examines his patient and concludes she's obese. We'll ask, can a doctor be too honest?
We begin with the battle on the homefront over the battle in Iraq. Facing mounting dissatisfaction with his handling of the war, President Bush met today with families of fallen troops and vowed to quote, "honor their sacrifice by completing their mission."
CNN's Dana Bash has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Knowing full well the anti-war movement is gaining attention with the leadership of one military mother, the president introduced the country to another.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And here in Idaho, a mom named Tammy Pruett.
BASH: Tammy's husband and one son are just back from Iraq. Four other sons are still serving. The White House invited the Pruetts and choreographed this moment with a family CNN first profiled more than a year ago. The president's goal: show support among military families, appeal to patriotism.
BUSH: America lives in freedom because of families like the Pruetts.
(APPLAUSE)
BASH: Setting aside past concerns about privacy or looking too political, the White House led reporters to Tammy Pruett. She said this of Cindy Sheehan.
TAMMY PRUETT, MOTHER OF U.S. SOLDIERS: The way that she's chosen to mourn. It wouldn't be the way that we would do it. But we respect her right.
BASH: In an arena packed with nearly 10,000 servicemen and families, the president once again took on critics demanding to pull out of Iraq now and said retreat would embolden the terrorists.
BUSH: So long as I'm the president, we will stay, we will fight, and we will win the war on terror.
BASH: The president's challenge goes well beyond the anti-war protesters following him around the country. The latest CNN/"USA Today/Gallup poll shows an all-time high -- 57 percent of Americans -- feel less safe because of the war in Iraq.
BUSH: We could hunker down, retreating behind a false sense of security. Or we could bring the war to the terrorists, striking them before they could kill more of our people.
BASH: Following the speech, Mr. Bush met privately with families of 19 troops killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Among then was Dawn Row (ph), whose husband was killed in Iraq nearly a year ago.
DAWN ROW, HUSBAND DIED IN IRAQ: I think my husband would want to say thank you very much, sir, for the opportunity to serve your country.
BASH: A Bush supporter, this was her second meeting with him, something denied Cindy Sheehan. Row (ph) says the Idaho governor invited her because her husband was born here.
(on camera). The large and supportive crowd here was reminiscent of the Bush re-election campaign, perhaps appropriate as he finds himself in an urgent fight to stop sliding support for the war and his performance as president.
Dana Bash, CNN, Nampa, Idaho.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: President Bush will return to spend the night back at his vacation home in Crawford, Texas. And once again, back on his doorstep there, Cindy Sheehan. The mother who's become a lightning rod to both sides of the war is returning to her roadside vigil.
CNN's Ed Lavandera has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When Cindy Sheehan first came to Crawford three weeks ago, she arrived in a bus with a few supporters. But now, there's an entourage awaiting her return to Texas. Her supporters are anxious to show this anti-war movement is bigger than just one grieving mother.
To make the point, Sheehan touched down in Texas with Melanie House by her side, the wife of a soldier killed in Iraq, who's joining in the anti-war chorus.
MELANIE HOUSE, HUSBAND KILLED IN IRAQ: My son was robbed. He never got to be held by his father. And we're here to ask President Bush why -- what's the reason for this war and when our troops are coming home.
LAVANDERA: The Crawford protest has drawn people from Boston to California, but it's Sheehan who remains the public symbol of anger at President Bush's Iraq war strategy. Sheehan wants to meet again with the president, this time to ask that the troops be brought home. She met with the president last year shortly after her son died in Iraq, but says she didn't confront him because she was still in shock. A new meeting doesn't appear likely to happen, and Sheehan doesn't appear to be backing down.
CINDY SHEEHAN, SON KILLED IN IRAQ: You were wrong about the weapons of mass destruction. You were wrong about the link between Iraq and al Qaeda. You lied to us. And because of your lies, my son died.
LAVANDERA: Sheehan appeared in this television commercial that followed President Bush to Utah and Idaho. Several stations in those states refused to run the ad. Sheehan's motives have been questioned, and she's accused of pushing the political agenda of left-wing organizations. Prominent opponents of the Bush administration are coming to Sheehan's defense. Former ambassador Joe Wilson suggests the White House is behind the personal attacks, and that to smear Sheehan rather than hear her is un-American and undemocratic.
Sheehan might be motivating anti-war protesters around the country, but she's also ignited the passion of the president's supporters. A caravan of President Bush supporters are driving from California to Texas. They plan to reach Crawford this weekend, where a war of words is sure to erupt.
MELANIE MORGAN, CHAIRMAN, MOVEAMERICAFORWARD.ORG: Our patience has snapped. We can't stand it a moment longer, listening to the anti-American message that is coming from Crawford, Texas, from Camp Casey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAVANDERA: Now, to give you a sense of just how heated it is getting here in central Texas, when Cindy Sheehan arrived here at the Waco airport just about an hour ago, as she was making her way, followed by cameras, an announcement came over the speaker here at the airport. And the announcement said, for those of you catching the next flight out of Bush country -- and there was much cheering going on.
And it was also very important to point out here, as well, when Cindy Sheehan arrived, it wasn't just all cheers. A lot of booing from some of the members -- who are people who are just sitting in the airport waiting to catch their flight. A sense, a symbol of just divisive Cindy Sheehan has become.
O'BRIEN: Yes, clearly.
LAVANDERA: Soledad?
O'BRIEN: Ed Lavandera for us this evening. Ed, thanks.
There are other stories making headlines tonight. Erica Hill from Headline News joins us with some of the other stories we're following. Hey, Erica, good evening.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Soledad. Nice to see you.
We start off with news in Florida. On guard again in the sunshine state for a possible hurricane strike. Tropical Storm Katrina now threatening. In fact, it could strike the southern part of the state by as early as Friday. It churned through the Bahamas today. The storm will likely move slowly across Florida, perhaps entering the Gulf of Mexico this weekend.
In Virginia Beach, Virginia, Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson says he's sorry. In a written statement today, Robertson apologized for comments he made on his "700 Club" program Monday, calling for the assassination for a Venezuelan president Hugo Chavez. Now, on his program today before his apology, Robertson insisted he never used the word assassination.
In Washington, a commission reviewing the Pentagon's proposed base closings have spared several of them, including the New London Submarine Base in Groton, Connecticut. Lawmakers and retired Navy officers had pressured the commission to keep that base open out of fear that closing it would devastate the region. However, most of the other base closings were approved. President Bush and Congress, though, still have the power to reject the proposals.
And in Rio Di Janeiro, Brazil, life from death. This is pretty amazing here. These two baby monkeys that you see, they're crawling on the stuffed monkey there. They were expelled from their mother's womb when she was hit by a car and killed. But amazingly, the babies weren't hurt and they're said to be in good health. The local zoo is caring for them and calls their survival a miracle. And they brought in the stuffed monkey, apparently, Soledad, to sort of act as a mother to these two little babies.
O'BRIEN: Oh, they're so cute.
HILL: Aren't they sweet?
O'BRIEN: And the stuffed monkey is their mom. It all works.
HALL: Yes.
O'BRIEN: All right, Erica, very cute, thanks. We'll see you in about 30 minutes.
Still ahead on 360, ratcheting up the stakes in the battle over abortion. New research pinpoints the time a fetus feels pain. What does this mean for the argument on both sides on the abortion issue?
Plus, former president Bill Clinton talks to 360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta about the pain he experienced leading up to his heart surgery and the lessons we all can draw from that.
And later, should a doctor call his patient obese? One's in trouble for doing just that. We'll explain ahead. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Tonight, a new medical report is throwing fire into the debate over abortion. At issue is an argument often made by abortion opponents that fetuses feel pain. Well now, researchers say fetuses likely don't feel any pain until around the 7th month of pregnency, or about 28 weeks old.
360 M.D. Sanjay Gupta joins us now from Atlanta with more on the report. Sanjay, good evening to you.
The question of fetus feeling pain, can doctors actually pinpoint when it actually does feel pain?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Such an interesting question, Soledad.
And really it boils down to this -- I think everyone pretty much agrees that it is very difficult to measure pain in a fetus, but what's really, this paper is all about, is at what point does a fetus have the capacity, the potential to even feel some pain?
Really interesting point here, they talk about the development of a fetus. You actually look at the development here. At a specific point, you actually develop some of the pathways that actually take pain from the skin or from wherever and transmit that back to the brain. The point that they're making here is that it isn't until about 26 to 28 weeks that these pathways actually develop. So, they're saying it isn't up until 26 to 28 weeks that you can actually have any pain in the fetus.
Very interesting. They actually measured at 29 to 30 weeks, finding some identifiable brain activity associated with pain. This is what they are basing all of this on.
Again, no one is disputing whether or not you can measure pain, but whether you can actually feel it. The National Right to Life Committee, you see here, says it is actually about 13 weeks when pain receptors are connected to the brain by impulses. Obviously, Soledad, very controversial here medically and politically.
O'BRIEN: I was going to say that, because of course, while we are talking about medical research, really it is in a background of a huge political debate. What are the implications here, Sanjay?
GUPTA: The implications are talking about abortion specifically. Specifically, there is more legislation, and more legislation actually being pushed for right now to make it a right that doctors inform women that a fetus can feel pain at 20 weeks even, if an abortion is being performed. The implications are pretty clear there, that if it might deter women from getting an abortion, for example.
The other side of it, of course is, that even if you look at the authors of this paper, one of the authors actually was someone who was an administrator of an abortion clinic, actually performed abortions herself, and another person worked for the pro-choice group Naral. So really, on both sides you see the implications here, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Even though people are saying it's not political, it's sort of always political, isn't it? Sanjay, also this week, you have been brining us some stories on former president Clinton's life outside the White House. Last night in part one of your series, Sanjay reported on Clinton's crusade against AIDS in Africa. Tonight, Dr. Gupta is focusing on how the former president battled his own heart disease and lessons that we can all learn from it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA (voice-over): Bill Clinton has been known for his boundless energy. As president, we rarely saw him rest, often saw him jogging even if it was to McDonalds. He knew he had high cholesterol, but managed to pass the rest of annual exams and stress tests. His only major medical incident while in office was knee surgery on a torn tendon in 1997.
DR. CONNIE MARIANO, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PHYSICIAN: You wish you could ground him, because you know, you're on crutches, you should be resting, you should be, you know, getting what -- you know most patients do.
GUPTA: But Bill Clinton isn't most patients not then, not now. Since leaving office, he's been to 67 countries, 29 this year alone.
He was finally grounded last September, when chest pains and shortness of breath sent him to the hospital. Turns how, he has more than 90 percent blockage in several of his blood vessels.
Days later, he had quadruple bypass surgery. His doctors used the traditional on pump procedure, stopping his heart and using a heart/lung machine.
Side effects are common for this kind of operation. And for the first time, Mr. Clinton shared his postoperative experiences.
(on camera): One of the things they talk about with the pump versus what is more likely to occur versus beating heart is some memory loss. Have you had any of that?
BILL CLINTON, FRM. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know -- I have seen two or three examples where I couldn't remember the name of someone that I had known quite well, not when they came up to me, but I mean, when I was just thinking about it. There were three or four times when that happened. But it eventually came to me. And so far, there's nothing permanent that I can recall.
GUPTA (voice-over): Less than two months after surgery, Bill Clinton was back at work, campaigning for John Kerry. But my March 2005, he was back in the operating room, this time to remove fluid buildup in his lungs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is as President Clinton lungs looked like. There was a large fluid collection, compressing the left lower lobe, basically taking up half that space.
GUPTA: But again, he bounced back. And by July, toured six Africa cities in eight days.
(on camera): Do you feel any limitation at all, you know, after the operation?
CLINTON: I don't, no. I think -- the only thing I think I have to do is to observe limits that I should have observed well before the operation.
GUPTA (voice-over): Clinton says he hasn't suffered from depression. That's another common side effect after heart surgery. But does wish he paid attention to his symptoms and has since become a champion of heart disease prevention.
CLINTON: Well, I think what surprised me the most before the surgery was learning that 10 percent of people who have heart attacks past their most recent stress test. You know, I really -- that's surprising.
DR. LAURENCE SPERLING, PREVENTIVE CARDIOLOGIST: A certain percentage of people who have a stress test can have a, quote, "normal" test and yet have something brewing in their heart. And we talk about it being in the range of more like 20 to 25 percent. So 10 percent is a little bit of an underestimation.
GUPTA: Dr. Laurence Sperling specializes in preventative cardiology.
SPERLING: We need to look at clues, even in people who feel well. . And clue can be their family history that we really need to pay attention to. The fact that we know somebody's overweight and they have maybe a state of prediabetes or high cholesterol, borderline high blood pressure, these are all clues to the risk of somebody. Unfortunately, being a middle aged American man by itself is a risk factor.
GUPTA: And Bill Clinton admits now, there were clues.
CLINTON: The most obvious one was that even after I lost a lot of weight in 2001, I couldn't run more of a mile without stopping to walk. And I now know it's because I already had enough blockage that I couldn't pump enough oxygen for both my lungs and my legs, past a certain point.
GUPTA: Clinton also confessed something about his heart. After I noticed a slight tremendous in his right hand.
CLINTON: Yeah. No, I think it is more in my left. But like now there is none, you see. So, it only happens when I'm tired. And, I did have it looked at. And they said, it was fairly common when people get older. And, we are going to check it again every six months. So, they said, you know, they think it's highly unlikely that there's -- it's Parkinson's or anything like that. I did have it looked at. He said that it was the kind of tremor that is reasonably frequent.
GUPTA: But don't expect that will slow him down.
Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Nairobi, Kenya.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GUPTA: Really interesting stuff there. Some of that, the first time he's actually talked about how he's been doing since his operation. The memory loss was very surprising to me, since he's so well known for his memory. Important point, though, Soledad, heart disease is the No. 1 killer of men and women. Some of these tests work, but they are not perfect. They weren't perfect in his case. If you are concerned about it, make sure to follow up with your doctor about this. Really important, men and women both, Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Really great information. Sanjay, as always, thanks.
Still to come on 360, we talk with former Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott about the protest in Crawford, Texas and the strong accusations he's making against the man who took his leadership position.
Also tonight, problems with obesity. A doctor in trouble for telling a patient she needs to lose some weight. We'll explain.
And then, a little later.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Gary Tuchman. What do you do if you are on a plane that makes a crash landing and you have to make an emergency evacuation? Well you listen to the flight attendants. These are flight attendants undergoing actual training on a simulator. The ride will be very frightening. We will have it a little later for you in the program.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: As we told you earlier tonight, Cindy Sheehan is returning to Crawford, Texas. She says she believes the president deceived her son by sending him to die in her words, in a senseless war. Our next guest on 360 disagrees. Senator Trent Lott voted for the war, says knowing what he knows now about Iraq, he still supports the president's decision. The Republican from Mississippi is the author of a new book. It's called "Herding Cats." He joins us this evening.
It's nice to see you. I love the title of your book. Let's get right to it. How much do you think, back to Cindy Sheehan, how much do you think not meeting with Cindy Sheehan is causing problems with the president?
SEN. TRENT LOTT (R), MISSISSIPPI: It probably does cause some problems, because people, you know, they can't help but have their heart go out to this mother who lost her son. And people think, you know, she has a right to demonstrate, and wouldn't be easy for the president to meet with her. And early on, I said I probably find a way to meet with her, maybe with more mothers or others or a group of some kind. I didn't know at the time that he had met with already. And then I've heard some comments that she's made later that do disturb me, and, so, you know, you have to weigh each situation, look at all the details. But I think people would like to see some further responsiveness. And I don't mean that as critically of the president as it may sound. It's hard. It's tough. Because you can't meet with everybody that demonstrates or protests no matter how good their cause. But --
O'BRIEN: Kind of keeps the story going.
LOTT: Yes, it does. And I, also, I want to emphasize this, too. You said that, you know, I supported going to the war, I think it was the right thing.
O'BRIEN: You write about it a lot in the book.
LOTT: Right. We are there now, and whether you agree with that or not we've got to figure out how we complete this job. And I want to emphasize, I don't think you should, just because you say we still got a job to do, you shouldn't acknowledge that maybe we need to do it differently, or change some people, or change your tactics. Be realistic in facing where we are and how do we want to get to where we need to be a year from now. What is the, you know, the conditions -- what are the conditions you're looking for.
O'BRIEN: Well the president says we're going to say. He said it again today and he said it many times. We are going to stay until the mission is completed. But as you can see from the poll numbers, and the latest ones say 43 percent, think the war is going well, 56 percent think it's going badly. At what point would your constituents say Senator Lott we want our boys and women home. Do you say, it's time to go.
LOTT: Well even my own constituency, a state that you know is a red state, they still for the most part like President Bush. And they supported our military -- always supported our military, and they supported going into Iraq. I had a lot of them say kind of what's the plan here?
See, when you just say, we are going to stay until the mission is completed, I think you need to take a little bit more time and say, well, this is the mission. Now why don't we have more police trained, more soldiers ready? Why hasn't the economy been growing more? Why isn't unemployment still too high? What are we going to do to maybe put a different mix of troops in there, move a division to the northern part of Iraq?
You need more information, but the president, I watched him, he's pretty perceptive. When he senses that things are not what they should be, or he's not getting as much across then he will initiate a lot of things that will expand that message, and, maybe even change how we are doing the job. And I think we need to assess that right now.
O'BRIEN: All right. Senator Trent Lott, it's nice to you. The book is called "Herding Cats." You covered the war in Iraq and many other things as well. It's an interesting read. Thanks.
LOTT: Thank you very much, Soledad.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER (voice over): The doctor's opinion? You're too fat. But his patient didn't want to hear it. So now he's got a lot of explaining to do. Is honesty always the best prescription? And, a plane goes down in Peru, killing dozens on board. Tonight, darkness and panic. What should you do in a moment of crisis?
TRACY GROSS, FLIGHT ATTENDANT INSTRUCTOR: Brace. Brace. Hold tight.
ANNOUNCER: 360 continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Dr. Terry Bennett may have been trying to help his patient when he told her that she was obese and needed to lose weight. But she wasn't happy both with the diagnosis and the advice. In fact, the patient was so upset she filed a complaint with the New Hampshire Board of Medicine. Now, the state attorney general is looking into the matter.
Joining us from Manchester, New Hampshire is Dr Terry Bennett. Nice to see you, sir. Thanks for talking with us.
DR. TERRY BENNETT, NEW HAMPSHIRE: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: The patient who has not be named is 5'7, 250 pounds. What exactly did you tell her?
BENNETT: Well, the first thing is I don't know how much she weighed, because she would never allow herself to step on my scale. So, I'm giving you a guess at best.
O'BRIEN: OK. Let's guess, 5'7, 250 pounds. What exactly did you tell her?
BENNETT: That she was headed on a course that would cause her to die young and die badly and die expensively, which is what happens with obese patients, as we all understand. So, she basically got a factual lecture. It's the same lecture I give every obese patient, there's a variation between male and female. But the lecture is the same. You don't get to live to be old. Your last ten years are awful. You spent fortunes on medicine and medical treatments. And they don't lengthen your life, because there's a turning point where we can't recover what's been lost.
O'BRIEN: Did you tell her, and in the period, you are not going to be attractive to men, some version of that?
BENNETT: Here is what the statistics. This is a fact-based lecture. Here's the statistics. Men die sooner than women no matter whether they are thin or fat. So, there is a diminishing supply of men as we age, vis a vis, supply of women. If you poll men, at any age, what's their ideal woman. It doesn't include obesity. There is only one group where that doesn't apply, and it's a very small group, so that's an irrelevancy.
So, you have built-in preferences of men no matter what they themselves look like, and there's nothing fair or reasonable about this, but they want a runway model.
Now, women conversely start off early...
O'BRIEN: I will stop you there, because, basically, you were telling her about what the men want, part of the equation that you're giving there. Did you think, though, that weighing in -- and I mean no pun by that -- on her likelihood of finding love at some point in her life because she's obese was a valid medical opinion to be giving her, to be sharing?
BENNETT: Well, you have to understand the context. She is married to a very obese man. He's guaranteed, statistically speaking to predecease her by as much as 10 to 15 years. And that's the point of that portion of the talk.
O'BRIEN: Do you think you were wrong in anything you said to her?
BENNETT: No, I told her the truth. And it's the very same lecture that I give it to everybody, including Melinda Hainey (ph), who has been on TV with me two or three times...
O'BRIEN: This is the patient who said very clearly that you helped her lose a lot of weight.
But you wrote to the patient -- she said she was offended -- you wrote to her and you apologized. Why apologize if you don't think you did anything wrong?
BENNETT: Well, because it's not my job to offend people, my job is to enlighten people and to get them to take a step in their own health care direction to incorporate knowledge and get better. I mean, that's what my job is, it's not to hurt your feelings, it's certainly not to make you mad.
O'BRIEN: Has this changed about how you tell patients, or as you would say, tell them the truth about their medical situation?
BENNETT: I tend now to preface this whole unpleasant lecture with the preface that I'm going to tell you some things that are really and truly unpleasant, there's nothing personal about them, but I want you to hear all the facts so you understand why I'm concerned and why I think you should be. That helps a lot.
O'BRIEN: Dr. Terry Bennett, nice to talk to you. Thanks.
BENNETT: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: Obesity is not only a sensitive issue, it's a growing one as well. Here is the 360 download. According to the Center for Disease Control, more than 60 million Americans are obese, that's one out of ever four people. Mississippi is the nation's most over weight state with 29.5 percent of its population obese. On the other end of the scale, so to speak, is Colorado. At 16.8 percent, it has the lowest rate in the United States. Do you think Dr. Bennett acted unethically when he called his patient obese? My next guest thinks so. He's here to tell us why. Bruce Weinstein is the ethics guy. And the author of "Life's Principals: Feeling Good by Doing Good." Nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us.
Do you think, in fact, that Dr. Bennett did something wrong?
BRUCE WEINSTEIN, AUTHOR: It was unethical for Dr. Bennett to say what he did, because the fundamental principle -- the fundamental ethical principle for not just physicians but for all of us is do no harm. And the words that Dr. Bennett used, not just the way that he said the words, but the words themselves were harmful.
O'BRIEN: But when they say do no harm, they mean don't injure your patient, they don't mean pussyfoot around the diagnosis so you don't hurt the patient's feelings, right?
WEINSTEIN: Well, we can harm people not just by what we do, by what we say, also. And the words that Dr. Bennett chose were humiliating. It humiliated the patient. It created anxiety that was completely unnecessary. It was foreseeable that these words would injure the persons feelings, not just offend her, but to harm her. And so he violated this fundamental ethical principle.
O'BRIEN: He said, in a nutshell, I'm being honest and the statistics support me. There is not one thing I'm telling patient that is not true.
WEINSTEIN: Well, the ethical obligation to be honest does not mean to tell the raw, naked, unvarnished bold truth in a way that can be harmful, or to use words that might reasonably hurt a person's feelings. That's not what telling the truth means.
O'BRIEN: Do think that if he had stopped at the you're obese part and hadn't gone into the no man's going to find you attractive...
WEINSTEIN: Absolutely. That was completely irrelevant. It struck fear into this person...
O'BRIEN: If he had stopped at your obese, would that be unfair?
WEINSTEIN: Well, I mean, the physician has an obligation to say exactly what obesity means, that there's an increased risk of diabetes, heart disease, and so forth, but to venture into the romantic area and to essentially strike fear into this person's heart, harms her, it creates anxiety. It's not hopeful.
O'BRIEN: It's fear that's coming from these facts from the CDC itself. It -- doesn't he have an obligation as a doctor to say to a smoker, here it is how it is going to kill you. It is going to stop your lungs, you're going to the capillaries are first going to...
WEINSTEIN: And you are going to tie of a painful, upsetting heart attack that will render you filled with grief and will besmirch your reputation, and will harm your friends and family members -- I mean, you could play it out and see how ridiculous it is to tell the whole, complete, naked, unvarnished truth. And that's wrong.
O'BRIEN: He apologized. He wrote a letter. He didn't realize the patient was offended. He said, she didn't come across as offended in the examination room. When he found out, he wrote her a letter and apologized. He thinks that should be that.
WEINSTEIN: He should be apology. Because he just said he would do it again, and he will do it again. And so, he's saying I apologize, but on the other hand he also says, I did nothing wrong. And when what Dr. Bennett really needs to see is that what he did, not the way he did it, but what he did was not just offensive, it was harmful and it violated the most fundamental ethical principle that applies to all of us: do no harm.
O'BRIEN: What should the punishment be?
WEINSTEIN: Well, he should be reprimanded by the state board which I believe is still looking into the matter. And I believe that the national publicity he's getting from this could also serve as some punishment. I hope that he'll get enough letters from patients to say, this is not appropriate.
O'BRIEN: Bruce Weinstein, nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us this evening. Appreciate it.
So, is honesty the best policy? Or did the doctor cross the line by calling his patient obese? We want to you know what you think. You can tell us by logging to CNN.com/360, click on the instant feedback link. We're going to read some of your e-mail later on tonight.
360 next, a plane plunges into the jungles of Peru, at least 31 people aboard died, but incredibly, dozens lived. We are going to talk to a survivor.
Also tonight, getting out alive. What to do in a plane crash and tips that can save your life.
And then, a little bit later, new drug allegations against Lance Armstrong. Tonight, the seven time Tour de France winner is fighting back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Taking a look now at tonight's "World in 360," and a deadly plane crash in Peru. Authorities today recovered both flight recorders from the Peruvian plane that went down on Tuesday. Thirty- one people died; among them, at least two Americans. But 57 people on board the plane survived.
Among them, six members of the Vivas family from New York. I talked to one family member, Gabriel Vivas, just a short while ago. He was on the plane with his wife and his brother and his brother's three children.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) O'BRIEN: When did you know the plane was having a problem?
GABRIEL VIVAS, PERU CRASH SURVIVOR: Well, when we were descending, I mean, they made an announcement, it was like ten minutes to the airport. And as we were descending, a lot of turbulence, I mean, it's pretty shaky. I thought that we were doing pretty good. I mean, I come looking out and I kept seeing the ground very close. I saw the tree tops, and I thought we were just about there, but they just, we just heard a bang, and, I mean, just a big puff of smoke that was maybe two, three rows in front of me.
O'BRIEN: What were people doing inside the plane? It's on fire. Obviously, a huge chunk of it was missing. Were people screaming and panicking?
VIVAS: There was definitely pandemonium. Everybody was running for the back. Everyone that was in the back seemed to have made it out. The flight attendant who cut the back, she had that door open before I even stood up, and everybody was already jumping out the one (INAUDIBLE), one to the back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: The plane crashed just two miles short of the runway in the northeastern jungle of Peru. Authorities believe wind shear may be to blame. And as CNN's Kathleen Koch reports, this wouldn't be the first time that this dangerous wind condition caused a deadly plane crash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Wind shear. It has claimed more than 500 lives since the 1960s. But it was the crash 20 years ago, Delta Flight 191 in Dallas, Texas, that convinced the aviation industry something must be done.
BOB FRANCIS, FORMER NTSB CHAIRMAN: I don't think wind shear was really understood that well, and people were prone to say the pilot made a mistake.
KOCH: Wind shear is a sudden change in wind speed or direction within a short distance. It often occurs during thunderstorms, but not always. A strong, sudden headwind, for example, slows a plane's speed and gives it extra lift. But when it suddenly diminishes, followed by a strong tailwind, the jet loses lift and sinks.
BRIAN STANLEY, EMERGENCY PROCEDURES TRAINER: There's going to be a loss of power and a loss of altitude pretty much simultaneously. And because, in essence, the wind is physically pushing the airplane down to the ground.
KOCH: So scientists have developed systems to detect wind shear. Two ground-based systems, one using animometers (ph) that measure wind speed and direction, and another using radar.
LARRY CORMAN, NAT'L CENTER FOR ATMOSPHERIC RESEARCH: That information goes directly to displays in the air traffic control tower. So, the controllers have an alphanumeric display -- so basically a text message that will come up indicating the runway, the wind shear type, and the intensity of the wind shear, so that information is given directly to the controllers and they relay that, then, to the pilots.
KOCH: Most large passenger aircrafts also have airborne systems, typically including the small radar device in the nose cone. It emits radar waves ahead of the aircraft and can detect wind shear. Even seasoned pilots go out of their way to navigate around the dangerous shifting winds.
JOHN WILEY, PILOT: The rule is avoid, avoid, avoid. You don't want to put yourself in a situation where you have to use your skills and you have to use maximum performance of the aircraft to escape one of these.
KOCH: Systems to detect wind shear are in place at 110 U.S. airports, larger airports in areas most likely to experience thunderstorms. And many experts consider the wind shear problem largely solved.
(on camera): Still, warnings don't always come in time. And there's concern pilots under pressure to avoid delays and wasting fuel may be increasingly reluctant to fly around potentially dangerous weather systems.
Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: It's time now for Erica Hill from Headline News to join us with some of the day's other top stories. Hey, Erica.
HILL: Hi again, Soledad.
We start off in Baghdad today, where insurgents staged a bold, broad daylight strike against Iraqi police checkpoints. When that battle was over, at least 14 people were dead and dozens wounded.
Meantime, the Pentagon is sending more troops into Iraq. Fifteen hundred paratroopers will help provide a temporary boost in troop levels. That's during the fall election period. That deployment will temporarily bring the U.S. troop level in Iraq to at least 140,000.
Across central and southern Europe, the devastation grows from wild weather that's produced massive flooding and landslides. The storms have now killed dozens of people, destroyed countless homes. Worst hit, Romania, with at least 25 people dead, thousands of homes demolished there. Switzerland, Germany, Austria and Bulgaria, though, also hard hit.
And allegations of doping against world-renowned cyclist Lance Armstrong. The director of the Tour de France says it is now proven scientific fact that Armstrong had a performance-enhancing substance in his body for his first Tour win. A French sports daily publication reported new tests show the seven-time winner used a red blood cell booster called EPO in 1999. Armstrong vehemently denies the allegations. He calls the article tabloid journalism, Soledad. Just can't seem to shake those allegations.
O'BRIEN: I was going to say, you know that's not going away anytime soon, is it? Erica, thanks. We're going to see you again in about 30 minutes.
Coming up on 360, we'll take a look at your e-mails. We want to know what you think about the doctor who called his patient obese. Did he cross the line? You can go to CNN.com/360.
Also tonight...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Gary Tuchman. Now, it looks like an airplane. Actually, this a simulator with real flight attendants undergoing training on what's going to be a very realistic, but very frightening simulated landing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You, put your feet flat on the floor. Heads are back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I was in the front, in the middle, I don't know. There was some fires over there in the front of me. But in back of me, there was no fire. So, we got time to walk to the back of the plane, and jump out of the plane.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Returning now to that plane crash that killed at least 31 passengers in Peru. Fifty-seven people on board survived. And their experiences may be taken into account in updating future crash survival drills. Those drills are regularly given to flight personnel. CNN's Gary Tuchman was on hand for one of them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What's it like to be in a jet crash and have to evacuate? Well we are in a simulator, this is a corporate jet simulator, but you have the same exit strategy if you were are on a commuter plane. With us now, actual flight attendants undergoing actual training to learn how to survive an episode like yesterday. This is a company called Facts Training. The instructor Tracy Gross. This is going to be very realistic. Tracy, start. Tell us the bad news right now.
TRACY GROSS, FLIGHT ATTENDANT INSTRUCTOR: All right. Ladies and gentlemen the captain has just informed that we have an engine fire and the fire is on this side of the aircraft. Therefore, we are going to use this exit right over here, if I'm not able to open this, will you be able to open it for me?
TUCHMAN: Yes, I will.
GROSS: This is how you're going to do it. To remove the cover, pull down on the T-handle, take both handles on each side of the exit, and evacuate leg body leg.
TUCHMAN: We are definitely going to crash? There's a fire.
GROSS: Yes. There is a fire in the cabin there. There is smoke in here. There is nothing I can do about it. So, please, bring your shirt over your nose and mouth and breathe through it. In the meantime, I need you to move over there, quick, now. Get your seat belts on, everybody. This is your brace position. I want you to lean completely over. Grab your arms and the backside of your leg. OK. Very good.
You, put your feet flat on the floor. Heads are back. You two, go all the way down. Grab your ankles on the backside of your leg. OK. Very good. You all can relax. I'll call for that command ten seconds before landing.
TUCHMAN: OK. This could be the abridged version, so let's go 30 seconds before the crash now.
GROSS: All right. There's your 30 seconds. If you have any sharp items on you, I need you to remove those. Your eyeglasses, take those off, put them in your chair. Any sharp items. Pass them to me immediately. We are getting closer to landing. Everybody, put your seat belts on. Make sure they are tight. We are going to meet 100 yards away from the aircraft. Stay in a group.
UNIDENTIFIED VOICE: Ten seconds. Ten seconds until landing.
TUCHMAN: Ten seconds, everybody. Ten seconds.
GROSS: Brace. Brace. Hold tight. Brace. Brace. Hold tight. Brace. Brace. Hold tight. Brace. Brace. Hold tight.
TUCHMAN: Hold on.
GROSS: Brace. Brace. Hold tight. Brace. Brace. Hold Tight. Hold. Hold tight. Hold tight. All right, stay in your seats. Gary, get the window open now.
TUCHMAN: OK. Yes.
GROSS: You got it?
TUCHMAN: Yes.
GROSS: Evacuate. Leg, body leg. Release your seat belts. Come this way. Leave everything. Go to the light. TUCHMAN: My job is to help other people out. But I'm going to come down to finish this up. I mean to be chivalrous, usually. But to finish up. The most important tip they gave us when we took this training earlier today. Know exactly how many rows you're away from the exit row when you sit down on your plane, because as you can see, there is no way to see. Flying is extremely safe, but it is good to know where that exit row is, how many rows away it is from you, when you sit in your seat on a plane flight.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: That was CNN's Gary Tuchman reporting there. Well it's time to find out what's coming up at the top of the hour on PAULA ZAHN NOW. Hey, Paula. good evening.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN HOST: I guess, good evening, Soledad, the one thing we've all learned over the last couple weeks is to pay a heck of a lot more attention to the instructions we get when we board any plane.
At the top of the hour, a story we almost couldn't believe when we heard it. He can't speak, he can't hear, he can't communicate at all, and he's suspected of a brutal crime, but he might go free because he can't defend himself. It's a case that's provoking controversy, even outrage. We will have the details for you at the top of the hour.
O'BRIEN: All right. Paula, looking forward to that. Thanks.
360 next, a doctor tells his patient she's obese. Did he go too far, or is honesty the best policy? We received lots of e-mails on the debate. We'll read a few, up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Time now for viewer e-mail. We asked you to write in about the doctor who told the patient she was obese. Did he go to far? We got a ton of e-mails about it, overwhelmingly in support of the doctor. Here are just a few of them.
This is from Doug from Springfield, Missouri. He writes this. "Hats off to the doctor who told his patient the real truth about how her obesity would affect her life, despite the fact that it hurt her feelings. The truth hurts, and I say this as someone carrying some extra weight myself (and working to lose it). As for the ethicist and his 'do no harm' spiel, sounds like someone's trying to sell a few more books."
This e-mail's from Len in Everett, Washington. He writes this, "Where do I find a doctor like that? I would love to have a health professional slap me upside the head to help me lead a healthier life, rather see mea s an opportunity to sell more Vioxx or whatever my pharmaceutical rep is shilling him."
This one's from Steve from Sate College in Pennsylvania. He writes this, "Is honesty always the best policy? Yes. Sometimes the truth hurts. In the case of the doctor who told the patient she was obese, he did her a favor and she should heed it. I bet he did it to hurt her feelings -- too bad. Get over it and do something about it. We're too concerned about hurting peoples' feelings in this country. No wonder the nation's obese. Too many parents feel that way about their children. Hurt their feelings, they'll get over it and they'll learn from it."
And Craig from Guilford, Connecticut, writes this, "As a pediatrician I see first hand the significant impact obesity is having on the children of America. It amazes me the number of parents and children who become angered with me when I discuss video time and increasing aerobic activity." He goes on to say hat's off to that doctor.
That's it for us. Make sure you write to us anytime. CNN.com/360. I'm Soledad O'Brien. CNN's prime time coverage continues now with Paula Zahn. Hey, Paula.
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