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American Morning

Chavez Controversy; Pat Tillman Probe; Remembering Mattie Stepanek

Aired August 24, 2005 - 7:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING.
Coming up, we'll talk more about this huge controversy sparked by the Reverend Pat Robertson, who said kind of like thou shalt kill. You should assassinate the president of Venezuela.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As you can imagine, many people are distancing themselves from this remark.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, exactly.

S. O'BRIEN: Including the White House. Lots of Christian leaders as well. We're going to talk more about the reaction and the fallout ahead.

First, though, another check of the headlines with Carol Costello.

Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning to you. Good morning to all of you.

"Now in the News."

President Bush is getting close and personal today with members of the military and their families. The president is wrapping up a short vacation in Idaho. He is set to deliver a speech focusing on Iraq. He'll do that later today near Boise. He'll then meet privately with families who lost loved ones in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Cindy Sheehan is going back to Texas. She, of course, is the grieving mother who sparked a recent waive of anti-war protests. Sheehan had to leave "Camp Casey," named after her late son, last week to be with her ailing mother. She is expected to make a statement once she arrives back in Crawford.

Search and rescue efforts resume this morning for dozens of people aboard a crashed Peruvian plane. The TANS airliner carrying 100 people was apparently trying to make an emergency landing during stormy weather. Peruvian officials say at least 37 were killed. An plane is expected to bring medical and other supplies to the accident scene today to help with the rescue efforts.

A tropical storm watch is in effect this morning for parts of south Florida. Forecasters say a tropical depression moving over the Bahamas appears to be getting stronger. It could become Tropical Storm Katrina, the 11th named storm of the hurricane season.

And a dramatic rescue in flood-stricken Austria. Take a look at these pictures. You'll see the woman inside this car. She's 72 years old. She was trapped in there after crashing into a flooded river. As you can see, emergency workers used ropes to get to the car. And then they had to pull the vehicle out. The woman was still inside when they pulled that vehicle out of the water. And as you can see, they put her on stretcher. But she is said to be doing just fine this morning -- Soledad.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, generally speaking, cars are not good in the water, right?

S. O'BRIEN: Yes, as a rule.

M. O'BRIEN: So...

COSTELLO: I think that was an accident.

S. O'BRIEN: Any water over this much.

COSTELLO: She had an accident, though, and she veered off.

S. O'BRIEN: Oh, that poor woman! How terrifying, huh? She seemed pretty calm inside the vehicle, though.

COSTELLO: Yes, I know.

S. O'BRIEN: Good for her. Good for them for getting her. Gosh! It's horrifying.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's talk a little bit more about this controversy of yesterday. Both the State Department and the Defense Department are dismissing the Christian broadcaster, Pat Robertson's call to assassinate the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chavez. Chavez as well dismissing the comment, saying he never even heard of Pat Robertson. But many just don't know who the Venezuelan president is and what his politics are.

For that, let's turn to CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hugo Chavez considers himself a devoutly religious man. And the Roman Catholic sprinkles his speeches with references to the Bible. But this man of faith is also partial to bellicose rhetoric, calling the Bush administration a mafia of murderers and recently holding this mock trial of Mr. Bush, as he accused the United States of backing plots to assassinate him.

HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): So, today, Mr. President, members of the court, you are passing judgment on Mr. Danger, which means passing judgment on United States imperialism.

HENRY: To be precise, this left-wing leader of oil-rich Venezuela usually calls President Bush "Mr. Danger One," so as not to confuse him with "Mr. Danger Two," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld.

Chavez has also embraced Iran, part of President Bush's axis of evil, and considers Cuban dictator Fidel Castro a mentor, which is why Pat Robertson believes Venezuela is becoming a launching pad for communism and Muslim extremism and Chavez is such a grave threat that drastic measures need to be taken.

PAT ROBERTSON, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTER: If he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war.

HENRY: That threat comes just a week after Secretary Rumsfeld, on a swing through South America, blamed Chavez and Castro for social unrest in Bolivia. But to Chavez, the bad blood started three years ago, when the United States allegedly backed a failed coup against him. And Chavez loves playing the martyr, as he did last year while discussing his relationship with the Bush administration in an interview with CNN.

CHAVEZ: We've had to put up with a lot, like Jesus Christ. I got tired of turning the other cheek, until my cheeks got purple from receiving so many blows. And I am a man of dignity.

HENRY: U.S. law prohibits the assassination of foreign leaders. And former intelligence officials say Chavez is really not too much of a danger, even though Venezuela controls 10 percent of our oil supply.

And even Republican Senator Arlen Specter has urged Rumsfeld to tone down the rhetoric against Chavez, because he could be a key ally in the war on drugs.

The attack from Robertson is likely to only boost Chavez's popularity back in Venezuela.

Ed Henry, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Steven Waldman is the editor-in-chief and the CEO of BeliefNet.com.

It's nice to have you back. Thanks for talking with us.

Do these comments from Pat Robertson surprise you?

STEVEN WALDMAN, EDITOR/CEO, BELIEFNET.COM: Actually, he says things like this periodically that, you know...

S. O'BRIEN: These particular ones?

WALDMAN: No, not about Chavez. But he made a comment saying that liberal judges pose more of a threat to the country than terrorists. He called Mohammed a robber and a brigand. He had said that Orlando would be visited by a hurricane because of gay pride marches.

So, he says things like this periodically that are very controversial. This one has to do with American foreign policy. So, the administration was put in a position of deciding how to respond.

S. O'BRIEN: Before we get into their response, let's throw out a couple of others. And you picked some of the highlights of things that Pat Robertson said in the past, and you missed some of the other ones, too. Feminism, back in 1992. "The feminism agenda," he said, "is about a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians."

About homosexuals: "Many of those people involved in Adolf Hitler were Satanists. Many of them were homosexuals. The two seem to go together." That was in January of 1993.

My list actually goes kind of on and on and on as you point out.

We've seen a distancing, but not a particularly strong distancing both politically and religiously. Let's talk politically first. What should the White House response be? What should the State Department be doing?

WALDMAN: It was the State Department that said it was an inappropriate comment, which is a distancing. But as you said, it's not a particularly angry or strong distancing.

I think in a case like this, where Chavez has accused the U.S. of trying to assassinate him, if the U.S. is trying to convince the world that that's not true, then they probably should have distanced themselves a little bit more forcefully. They have a political problem every time something like this comes up with Reverend Robertson, which is that he has a constituency.

S. O'BRIEN: And he has close ties to President Bush. I mean, he was helping him in his 2000 election. So what should the White House be saying that's not -- does it call for a strong -- stronger dismissal than what we've heard?

WALDMAN: I think it probably does, yes. And I also think there is another problem that this is not necessarily good for American evangelical Christians to have comments like this made. People tend to associate Robertson -- tend to view him as a major American Christian leader.

S. O'BRIEN: He's a Baptist minister. He's been leading a massive church essentially for decades now.

WALDMAN: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: What should the Christian response be? I mean, it's not very Christian to advocate taking out somebody.

WALDMAN: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: And, again, you don't get a sense that there is all around an outcry that this is..

WALDMAN: There has been some. I saw some leaders really...

S. O'BRIEN: Some. But the conservative Christian groups, not that much.

WALDMAN: And I think it's part of -- you know, he's one of the group. You know, he's one of the guys. And so there's always a reluctance to criticize one of their own, and that's not just in the conservative Christian community. That's, you know, in any community.

But people need to realize that when a major Christian leader like this makes comments like that, then other people are going to think, oh, well, this is what evangelical Christians are like. And, you know, Robertson has a responsibility, not just as a political leader, but as a religious leader. And other religious leaders need to understand that when he says things like that unchallenged, it creates an impression for American Christians.

S. O'BRIEN: Do people care? I mean, as you point out, and we've, you know, talked about half-a-dozen things that people might put on the extreme side of an equation, think there is a big impact to the White House overall? A big picture fallout?

WALDMAN: No, no, I don't think there is a big picture fallout for the White House. And there is always the question when someone makes a statement like this whether or not the best thing to do is just to ignore it or...

S. O'BRIEN: Let it go away?

WALDMAN: Yes. And the reality is that the "700 Club" has about a million viewers. So, you sort of have to think, well, he does have a constituency. He does have a following. So, you probably have to deal with it.

S. O'BRIEN: We'll see in the long run the big picture. Steve Waldman, nice to have you.

WALDMAN: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks very much. Of BeliefNet.com -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: It's more than a year since Army Ranger Pat Tillman was killed by friendly fire in Afghanistan. Tillman's family questioned whether they had been deliberately misled about what happened to the former professional football player.

Now the Pentagon is examining the Army's investigation into his death.

CNN's David Ensor with more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Pentagon's inspector general is reviewing the Army investigations into last year's friendly fire killing of former football star Pat Tillman in Afghanistan, officials say. The move comes in response to bitter complaints from Tillman's parents.

His father, Patrick Tillman, told "The San Francisco Chronicle" that -- quote -- "the other investigations were frauds."

Tillman, who gave up a high-paying career with the National Football League to join Army Rangers, was killed in a remote area of eastern Afghanistan, and the Army first said he died in combat against Taliban guerrillas. He was awarded a Silver Star and a Purple Heart, lauded at his funeral by Senator John McCain, and praised as a role model by President Bush. Six weeks later, the Army said he had been killed by mistake by members of his own company.

As a result of earlier Army investigations, seven soldiers received reprimands, but none of them were high-ranking officers.

The Tillmans claim that one report they were shown indicated that top Pentagon brass, including General John Abizaid, the head of Central Command, knew soon after Tillman's death that it was friendly fire.

"Hopefully something will come out of this," Pat Tillman's mother, Mary, told "The San Francisco Chronicles." "Many crucial things that happened did not come out in the earlier reports. People above should have been punished."

(on camera): The Army said in a statement some months ago that -- quote -- "procedural misjudgments and mistakes" led to an air of suspicion, and it said that no one intended to deceive the Tillman family or the public as to the cause of his death.

David Ensor, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

M. O'BRIEN: Army officials have apologized to Tillman's family. They did that back in June -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: At 41 minutes past the hour, it's time to check the weather this morning.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: A big overhaul may be in store for one of big Detroit's automakers. We're "Minding Your Business" on that.

S. O'BRIEN: And then later, remembering Mattie Stepanek. His mother talks about a special project that her son left behind when he died in 2004. More on that is ahead on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Well, yesterday, Ali Velshi was in an airplane hangar learning how to fix airplanes. And this morning, he is here for Andy Serwer trying to help fix Detroit.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Hopefully, I can do a better job on cars than I can on planes.

Ford. A bit of a perception problem at Ford. It suffers from the old business of American cars some people thinking not being as good as foreign-made cars. It suffers from these deep rebates that they have been giving.

So, Ford announces, after losing a billion dollars in the second quarter, William Ford today announced that there's going to be a major restructuring at Ford some time after September but during the fall. They already announced 2,700 white-collar layoffs. And now, of course, rumor is that perhaps these will be some blue-collar layoffs is announced now.

But Ford is, you know, in trouble, and they've got to find a new way to do business. Not quite sure, there weren't enough details about what is going to happen to this company, but it's going to have to change.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, you mentioned those other issues. But the bottom line is you've got to have a product that people want to buy.

VELSHI: That's exactly it. And its perception has to be that that product is what people want to buy. You've got to be at the right end of either design or quality.

Meanwhile, they're suffering health care prices. Raw materials have gone up. They've got steep, steep competition.

So, Ford is in a tough, tough place. The only good thing about companies and industries in a tough place is that there is no better motivation for a turnaround.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. And we've got more Detroit news.

VELSHI: Yes. Toyota, of course, which doesn't suffer a perception problem, got hit by one in Michigan. A lot of people, a lot of carmakers go to Michigan to film ads, because they've got a lot of experts who know how to light cars. So, they decided they'd go to one town, and they'd call it Toyotaville for their ad. The town liked the idea. They've canceled the ad now, because these guys don't want to be involved in being associated with Toyotaville, Michigan.

M. O'BRIEN: These are shades of the '70s, you know?.

VELSHI: Yes. Yes, that's right.

M. O'BRIEN: Interesting. All right. History repeats itself in Motor City and environs. Thank you, Ali. VELSHI: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, the legacy left behind by a courageous young boy. Mattie Stepanek's mom joins us to talk about her son's final project. Stay with us. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Mattie Stepanek's words are his legacy. The 13- year-old, a best-selling author of poetry, died last year from a rare form of muscular dystrophy. He counted former President Carter and Oprah Winfrey among his good friends.

"Reflections of a Peacemaker" is a collection of Mattie's his final poems. His mother, Jennifer Stepanek, joins us this morning.

Nice to see you. You did all of the work behind this book, not the writing of the poetry, but pulling it all together.

JENNIFER STEPANEK, MATTIE STEPANEK'S MOTHER: I edited it. And he had left us the eight chapters of poetry. I wove together the tributes from Oprah Winfrey, Mia Angelo, Jimmy Carter, Jerry Lewis, and all of the introductions so that it had context for the readers.

S. O'BRIEN: There was a discussion, though, the two of you had before he died about this. This is a project he wanted to do.

STEPANEK: Absolutely.

S. O'BRIEN: It's not pulled together without his...

STEPANEK: He even told me where to find the poetry he had written in the last six months. Told me where to go to find things. His vision for the book, his hope for the book. He told me what goes on the last page. He has a very special ending after the index that he said needed to be in the book.

S. O'BRIEN: A lot of these poems were poems you had never seen. How painful was it? Because they are revealing about his last months and days on this earth.

STEPANEK: I was familiar with a lot of his poetry. But when I pulled out where he said he had a folder that was under his bed, and I pulled it out and read some of the things he wrote during his final weeks, it was really hard. It's beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. It's not morbid. It's a child looking death square in a eye and loving life, living in the moment, still thinking of what he can give to the world.

S. O'BRIEN: I'm sure his mother. It was painful.

STEPANEK: His mother. And I read it, and I started crying, because if I had known he was that intimately aware of just how many heartbeats he had left, I don't know what I would have done, but I like to think I'd have maybe held him one extra second or done something different, because they're beautiful and he was so aware, yet still so inspirational.

S. O'BRIEN: How was he so inspirational when not only was he suffering from a very tough disease, but he was also in a lot of pain all of the time. I mean, his poetry doesn't, you know, both reflect the difficulties that he was struggling with a lot -- he's very straight about that -- but doesn't dwell on it. And he talks a lot about the after-life and a lot about just the joy of being alive, which you think, wow, this is a little kid. I mean, he's a kid!

STEPANEK: He was definitely a kid first, and people missed that a lot. He loved playing practical jokes. And I think Mattie was just in love with people and life. And he really -- you know, you say treasure the moments you have. Mattie did. He got why every sunrise mattered as much as the one yesterday and the one tomorrow. He got what the moment means. And somehow, he was able to balance all of the hard things with all of the good things.

S. O'BRIEN: He was so optimistic.

STEPANEK: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And that comes through in all of these poems. You have...

STEPANEK: He had his moments. He had moments where he was frustrated and sad and even cried. And he was needle phobic. I mean, he just had a hard time with the pain he was in. But he still could move beyond that moment and live in what happens next.

S. O'BRIEN: You have the adult version of the disease...

STEPANEK: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: ... that killed all of your children, four children.

STEPANEK: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Are you optimistic about life? I mean, do you take lessons from your son?

STEPANEK: I am. I'm largely optimistic because of my son. I was diagnosed after I had all four of the children. I didn't know I had it. And the children were diagnosed after me. So, this was just an outright surprise to everybody that this happened so violently in one family. And the easiest thing to do would be just to give up. But Mattie...

S. O'BRIEN: Be angry at everybody

STEPANEK: And I am. I am angry. I miss my kids. All right. It's very lonely not having my children, not having the word "mommy" apply to me anymore. You know, it's really hard. But Mattie said, "Don't be one of those people that lays down in the dust and the ashes of your life and just rolls around kicking yourself." You know, you've got to keep -- don't just exist, don't just breathe, but live. And, you know, he pretty much commissioned me to do that.

It's easier said than done. I have days I think there's no reason to get out of bed today, and I'm happy just lying there in my misery. But then something else happens, and you remember that's not what life is about.

S. O'BRIEN: He's got a great poem that I'm going to mangle it, because I'll paraphrase it. But he talks about how people will cry at your funeral.

STEPANEK: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: He thinks about how people will cry. But then he also says, I wonder how many people will think about how you lived and take messages.

STEPANEK: Right. Mattie wrote that poem 24 hours before his heart stopped.

S. O'BRIEN: Really?

STEPANEK: That was the last poem he wrote.

S. O'BRIEN: That's an amazing poem.

STEPANEK: I didn't see that until after he died. And I sat and cried. And then I wondered and I did everything the poem said to do. It's a gift.

S. O'BRIEN: It is. It really is.

Jennifer Stepanek, Mattie's mom, said that she hoped that we would mention that a portion of the proceeds from the book, which is called "Reflections of a Peacemaker," will be donated to the MDA's Mattie's Fund. It's going to help research into childhood neuromuscular diseases.

She is such a remarkable woman. I mean, every single one of her children died from the disease that she has and that has her in a wheelchair. I wasn't sure we were going to make it through this interview. You know, that she would cry, that I would break down.

And I've got to tell you, this book of poetry -- and I'm not a poetry fan honestly, and I told her that -- it is so beautiful and so well-written and so insightful. It's really -- you know, I had extra copies of it, and I was handing it out to my friends yesterday. It's amazing. You go buy one, so the proceeds can go to the Muscular Dystrophy Association. It's...

M. O'BRIEN: I can't think of a story that has a combination of being sad and inspiring at the same time.

S. O'BRIEN: And his poetry is light. I mean, here's a -- and you've go to remember, you look at the pictures, he was a kid! M. O'BRIEN: I know.

S. O'BRIEN: He died a couple of weeks shy of his 14th birthday. He was a 13-year-old kid who was a practical joker, who had a great sense of humor. You know, it breaks your heart. And then you read the poetry, and you're both inspired. You absolutely right.

M. O'BRIEN: They really were gifts that he left us.

S. O'BRIEN: Yes. Yes. His mom definitely looks at it that way, too.

A short break. We're back in just a moment.

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