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Your World Today
Violence in Baghdad; Iraq Police Training
Aired August 24, 2005 - 12:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Live from CNN Center, this is YOUR WORLD TODAY.
ZAIN VERJEE, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: The walls come tumbling down in the West Bank, but Palestinians are along about a new move by Israel outside an existing settlement.
JIM CLANCY, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: A trapped motorist in rising water caused by torrential rains. Europe's flooding keeps rescue workers busy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have to buy the things that I need. But as far as things that I want, I have to cut down on that because of the gas prices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VERJEE: Cutting back on spending in order to pay at the pump. U.S. consumers try to adjust to rising gas prices.
It's 12:00 noon in the U.S., 9:00 p.m. in the West Bank. I'm Zain Verjee.
CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy. Welcome to our viewers around the world. This is CNN International and YOUR WORLD TODAY.
This, a critical time for Iraq's fledgling democracy. Lawmakers trying to iron out differences that are blocking their new constitution. And they are also exposing some deep divides between Sunni Arabs and Shia and Kurds, as the U.S. is pressing them to try to come together.
VERJEE: The need for unity and stability in Iraq was underscored on Wednesday by an unwanted reminder: new deadly attacks in Baghdad.
CLANCY: Dozens of heavily-armed insurgents attacked police checkpoints in broad daylight in a western neighborhood in the capital. Police fought back, and the streets became a battleground.
Aneesh Raman is in Baghdad with casualty figures and more -- Aneesh.
ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, good afternoon.
At least five people were killed and upwards of 30 others wounded in what police are calling a highly-coordinated attack by insurgents in the western part of Baghdad. Nearly two hours is how long a standoff ensued between insurgents and Iraqi police. We are told upwards of 40 insurgents attacked police checkpoints, as well as police themselves.
The U.S. military saying car bombs were used, rocket-propelled grenades, as well as machinegun fire. The entire area was immediately cordoned off by Iraqi security forces. And after it was secured, they went house to house to try and find the insurgents who took part in this attack.
It comes, as you say, at a very politically sensitive time in the country, as the Kurd-Shia coalition tries to bring the Sunnis on board with the draft constitution, and will undoubtedly fuel the arguments of those here on the ground that any delay in this process gives further credibility to Iraq's insurgency -- Jim.
CLANCY: Any comment from the U.S. military or the Iraqis about the sophistication, the apparent determination of these people to launch an attack like this in broad daylight?
RAMAN: Well, Iraqi police are being very open that this shows unnerving confidence among Iraq's insurgency to, as you say, in broad daylight bring the fight directly to Iraqi police forces. This area, Jumia (ph), is a Sunni insurgent stronghold in the Iraqi capital. We have seen attacks there before. But none really of this nature, where large numbers of Iraqi insurgents with a wide variety of weapons have brought the fight directly to the police in broad daylight.
So that is raising huge concerns among Iraq's security forces tonight -- Jim.
CLANCY: Aneesh Raman, reporting to us there live from Baghdad.
Aneesh, thank you.
VERJEE: President George W. Bush is on a public relations campaign to turn around the growing antiwar sentiment in the United States. He's scheduled to make a public appearance and meet with the families of soldiers killed in Iraq.
Dana Bash joins us now live from Nampa, Idaho.
Dana, he's going to meet with them, but he won't meet with Cindy Sheehan.
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the president made pretty clear yesterday that he has met with Cindy Sheehan once, and doesn't intend to again. And what we are seeing here are thousands of people, really, filing into this arena.
Ten thousand tickets, Zain, were given out to hear the president speak. Members, active duty Air Force, Air National Guard, many of whom have served in Iraq and come back, many are actually going there. In addition, families of those who are actually in Iraq and also Afghanistan. You mentioned Cindy Sheehan. Of course, the president, as I mentioned, said he won't meet with her again. But he does have about two-plus hours on his schedule after he gives a speech here to meet with families of servicemen and women killed in action in Iraq. And we believe also Afghanistan.
Now, those people are, we expect, going to be in the audience as well to hear the president speak. And Bush aides say that the president will try to use this speech to essentially beat back some of the main arguments that Cindy Sheehan and her supporters have been making. Primarily, that the troops, they believe, should come home right now.
We heard the president preview this over the last couple of days. But essentially, he's going to elaborate, we are told, on his argument that pulling the troops out now would actually end up hurting national security, U.S. security, from his point of view.
The other interesting thing that we did hear for the first time, Zain, on Monday from the president was a specific casualty count from Afghanistan and from Iraq. We are told by a senior Bush official that the president will say that once again, will talk about specific numbers of those who have been killed. But he also will essentially try to put a face on this.
You know, we've seen Cindy Sheehan become a symbol, a face for the antiwar effort. Mr. Bush will talk about a family who is here in Idaho called the Pruitt (ph) family. The father and one son will be here in the audience. Four other sons are actually serving in Iraq, and they are, at this point, still supportive of the mission -- Zain.
VERJEE: CNN's Dana Bash reporting.
President Bush expected, as she said, to focus on America's resolve in Iraq when he addresses U.S. military personnel and their families today. CNN plans live coverage of the president's remarks at 17:10 GMT.
CLANCY: Mr. Bush has the view that the length of time U.S. troops are going to remain in Iraq really depends on how well Iraqi police and security forces are prepared to take over the responsibility. The U.S. military's efforts to train Iraqi forces has been criticized as insufficient, but the military says it's a process that is coming along well.
To discuss whether Iraqi police are indeed equipped to fight the insurgency and how well they are performing, we are joined by Olga Oliker. She's a senior international policy analyst at the Rand Corporation.
Thank you so much for being with us. What is your assessment, your report card for Iraqi forces thus far?
OLGA OLIKER, SR. INTERNATIONAL POLICY ANALYST, RAND: Well, they are improving. And there are things that Iraqi forces are going to actually be able to do better than coalition forces. They have more ties to the community. They can get better intelligence. And there has been a lot of progress made.
I think it's important to note the focus on police forces. That's the people who are going to be fighting the insurgency, the forces that are responsible for the internal security of Iraq. And there are some 67,000 Iraq police forces trained at this point.
Now, the one issue, though, that I would raise is the focus on the insurgency and training these folks specifically to fight the insurgency -- rather, insurgencies in Iraq, whereas for most Iraqis, the real issue is law and order. And that has continued to be a problem. And there is some concern that the focus on fighting the insurgencies might damage the capacity of the police to provide what Iraqis really are going to need in the long term.
CLANCY: You know, some statistics came out today from the Pentagon, talking about people signing up for the U.S. military after it had been reported for months that recruitment was down. It is now said to be back up over 100 percent in some cases, some units, some branches of the military. And particularly striking was the number of people that are reenlisting in the U.S. military who have been fighting in Iraq.
Is that a good sign for training troops, for improving security there?
OLIKER: Well, it's a sign of a commitment on the part of Americans and American soldiers, people who believe that this is something they can help with. I would say, though...
CLANCY: But they've developed some skills as well.
OLIKER: I would say -- well, I'd say, for the -- for the Iraqis, there's this question of who should be training Iraqi police and internal security force, and whether that should be military personnel. And one of the things that the coalition has been successful, and is actually bringing in more police and more internal security specialists rather than having military personnel train them. So I'm not sure I would draw a connection between U.S. recruitment numbers and the training of Iraqi police.
CLANCY: All right. Some enthusiasm there. You apparently don't think that that has much to do with the issue at hand.
What does relate to it? Because, at the same time, we're getting reports that a lot of the people in these security forces owe their allegiance not to the government in Baghdad, but to religious groups in various areas of the country. Or even across the border.
OLIKER: That's a significant concern and something that the Iraqi government will have to watch. And so far as we have an interest in Iraq's development, that we have to watch.
The security force, especially the most highly trained, the commandos, often have allegiances to individuals. Some of them come from various militia groups. And the question of where their allegiance is now, whether it's to the central government, or to their home community, it's a very valid question.
I think many of them are willing to fight for the Iraqi central government as long as they feel that's in their interests. And there's no question. It's almost impossible to bet perfectly for that.
There is also, of course, the question of infiltration by insurgents into the security forces. And that has been a problem.
CLANCY: Olga Oliker at the Rand Corporation. I want to thank you for being with us.
OLIKER: Thank you.
VERJEE: Still ahead here on YOUR WORLD TODAY, Mother Nature is wreaking havoc in parts of Europe.
CLANCY: We've got wildfires in Portugal. We've got heavy flooding in central Europe: Austria, Germany, Romania. We'll have a live update coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY.
We want to focus for a moment now on the United States, and specifically on the high price of gas. It's so bad that law enforcement authorities are bracing for trouble. They expect more people to attempt to drive off without paying for fuel. They also anticipate perhaps more violence.
In Montgomery, Alabama, a service station owner was killed after being run over by a driver who police believe wasn't going to pay the $52 it cost for a full tank of gas. Nationally, prices now average $2.55 a gallon.
This is a new experience for many Americans as fuel prices push even higher, making filling up the tank a painful experience that's quite familiar to motorists in other parts of the world. As Allan Chernoff tells us, the high price of gas is forcing many Americans to cut back elsewhere.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN SR. CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Beth Cioffi spent $64 to fill up her SUV this week.
BETH CIOFFI, DISCOUNT SHOPPER: It's killing me. Killing me and my family. I don't know what we're going to do.
CHERNOFF: What Cioffi is doing is economizing elsewhere, buying only necessities, and telling her 6-year-old twins no.
CIOFFI: No more toys. You know, thank god my kids don't need toys so much. But, you know, when they used to get things that they didn't need, they're not -- you know, they used to get it, but now they'll have to do without it.
CHERNOFF: That's why Cioffi is shopping alone.
CIOFFI: Because if I brought them to the store, they'd be asking for every -- you know, every three seconds, "Can I get this? Can I get that?"
And usually I'd say, "Sure. Sure. Sure." But, you know, that's why I come here alone, because I just can't afford to say yes anymore.
CHERNOFF (on camera): Retailers that cater to value-conscious consumers are feeling their customers pain. Even here at Dollar Tree, where everything's a dollar, shoppers are cutting back.
(voice over): Americans with moderate incomes are taking fewer trips to the store, and buying less.
MARIE PHAYER, DISCOUNT SHOPPER: Not buying so many things for my grandchildren that's worth things and things and things just to give them.
CHERNOFF: Retailing experts say prices at the pump are squeezing the country's deepest discounters: Dollar Tree, Family Dollar and Dollar General. Not only are their core customers tightening up, but they also have to pay more to get their products delivered.
ERIC BEDER, RETAIL ANALYST: If you're a dollar store, you pretty much have to be a dollar. You can't really raise your prices to pick up for these higher gas prices. So they're being hurt the most.
CHERNOFF: Wal-Mart, the world's number one retailer, says gas prices are slowing its sales growth. Shoppers still buying plenty of food there, but fewer high-profit items.
GINO BRANDONISIO, DISCOUNT SHOPPER: I have to buy the things that I need, but as far as things that I want, I have to cut down on that because of gas prices.
CHERNOFF: If gas prices keep rising, American economizing may have only just begun. While Beth Cioffi is still buying less at the store, she's still spending plenty at the gas pump to keep driving her 2005 GMC Denali.
Allan Chernoff, CNN, Garden City, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: And many of our European viewers, Zain, looking at that story, and they're wondering what all the fuss is about. Most European, their entire lives, have only known one gas price. And that's been around $5 a gallon. Most of it's taxes.
VERJEE: That's exactly right.
Let's check in now on how the markets are doing.
(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
VERJEE: Just ahead, fire and water.
CLANCY: Too much water in some places. Not enough in others. It all spells big trouble across Europe. We'll have the story next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VERJEE: Welcome back. You are watching an hour of world news here on CNN International. Thanks for joining us.
Europe is battling a weather nightmare. Too much water in one part of the continent, too little in the other. Floods in the Alps and forest fires in Portugal and Spain are being blamed for dozens of deaths.
Andrew Carey has the latest for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANDREW CAREY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Forest fires illuminate the night sky over Tama (ph) in central Portugal. Outside the town, people using whatever they can find to beat back the blaze.
Help from the sky, too. Three helicopters from Germany joining fire-fighting aircraft from four other European countries.
The number of fires still raging is down to five, from more than 20 earlier in the week. Cooler temperatures playing a part. But hundreds of homes have been destroyed. And almost 200,000 hectares scorched as the country suffers its worst drought for 60 years.
Authorities criticized for a lack of resources.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): There is a lack of water and also a lack of support. The fire is going in several directions. When they are fighting one on one front, there are already other fires happening on other fronts.
CAREY: In central Europe, too much water after days of to residential rains. Rescue workers in the Swiss city of Bern airlifting people to safety. Inside the covered stretcher, a mother and her baby.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was a bit scared to go with him. Not for me, but for him. He's two months, and that's a very little baby.
CAREY: In neighboring Germany, flooding across the southern state of Bavaria. Roads washed away, last-minute efforts to protect homes and businesses from a similar fate.
Thousands of firefighters and army personnel have been mobilized ahead of a major cleanup operation. Germany's chancellor, in the midst of a general election campaign, has been quick to promise help. GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): In these types of situation, one should not concentrate on wrangling amongst political parties, but rather on helping the effected region and people.
CAREY: But it's in the east of the continent, in Romania, that the storms and the floods have hit hardest. At least 25 people are reported killed, and thousands of homes destroyed. Uprooted trees speak to the force that swept through here. Water marks on this house showing how high the waters rose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Water rushed into the houses. It took away the outbuildings, cars, livestock. Even an old woman was carried away by the water.
CAREY: With many parts of Romania still cut off, it could be some time yet before the true extent of the damage here is known.
Andrew Carey, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: Our Femi Oke is closely monitoring the situation from the International Weather Center.
VERJEE: She joins us now with more -- Femi.
(WEATHER REPORT)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VERJEE: Welcome back to YOUR WORLD TODAY on CNN International. I'm Zain Verjee.
CLANCY: I'm Jim Clancy.
Although the settlements in Gaza and the West Bank have been cleared. The job for the Israeli military, far from over. Soldiers are demolishing the homes left behind. Fionnuala Sweeney is in the West Bank settlement of Kadim, she filed this report a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FIONNUALA SWEENEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Some 85 homes have stood in this former West Bank settlement of Kadim. The families here deciding to leave their houses voluntarily before being forcibly evicted by the Israeli authorities.
This house behind me, one of several destroyed this day. The remaining will be destroyed across the West Bank by next Tuesday. The authorities saying that those houses vacated by the settlers in the Gaza will be destroyed ultimately by September 8th.
The Palestinians are looking to this disengagement process as a way of moving their aspirations forward in the short term, particularly towards greater autonomy in Gaza. They want to see their airport reopened and also, to have safe passage between the West Bank and Gaza.
But, the Israeli prime minister, Ariel Sharon, has said there can be no further discussions with the Palestinians on the Road Map for Peace without a dismantling of Hamas and Islamic Jihad by the Palestinian Authority.
This is something that the prime minister, Mahmoud Abbas, has so far refused to do, saying that he believes it could lead to a civil war among the Palestinians.
Meanwhile, the destruction of houses continues. Earlier this day, there were some five houses on this street behind me. Beyond that again, you can see the remaining houses in this settlement of Kadim, which will be destroyed in the coming days.
Fionnuala Sweeney, CNN, Kadim in the West Bank.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: The West Bank will remain under Israeli occupation. Diplomacy between the two sides will focus on the area where the majority of Palestinians and Israeli settlers live. Guy Raz takes a look at what may lie ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What's certain about the Gaza pullout is that it's the first significant change in the region in a long time. The next chapter here will focus solely on the West Bank.
Four hundred thousand Israelis live in the West Bank in East Jerusalem. Palestinian officials say the removal of those residents is crucial to the establishment of an independent Palestinian state.
NASSER AL KIDWA, PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Lack of recognition of the status of the Palestinian territory as occupied, in reality, equals the Palestinian side saying there is no Israel.
RAZ: Israel has made it clear that certain large settlement blocs are not up for negotiation.
(on camera): Since the early 1990s, this conflict has been managed in two ways. First, as a series of negotiated agreements between Israelis and Palestinians. But after the outbreak of the second intifada in 2000, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, came up with his own paradigm: The unilateral withdrawal.
Now, that approach is not likely to continue after the Gaza withdrawal. So, the question now is where the two sides go from here and the answer is nobody really knows.
(voice-over): It's why Israeli political theorist Ari Shavit has published a book outlining g a plan he calls The Third Way.
ARI SHAVIT, POLITICAL THEORIST: I think that the third way for the Middle East conflict is to reduce occupation dramatically, while achieving gradual recognition and formation for the Jewish state.
RAZ: Shavit argues affirmation, as he calls it, must first come from the international community. Israelis, he says, deeply believes the world doesn't accept them. It's a psychological barrier, he contends, that makes peace difficult to achieve.
SHAVIT: This is the most realistic approach, because the two other ways we've tried, they both failed. Occupation has caused misery, injustice and death. The attempt to go for a peace deal that is not right, brought violence and total disintegration of the peace process.
RAZ: A new outbreak of violence is widely predicted by Palestinian leaders if the Israeli government puts future negotiations on hold.
SAEB EREKAT, CHIEF PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: Today, there are more than 70 percent of Israelis and Palestinians know -- they know that we don't need to reinvent the wheel.
It's going to be a two-state solution and the '67 borders. And Israel and Palestinian. They know it. We know it. It's coming. Not because I woke up one morning and felt my conscious was aching that I wanted to recognize Israel and the suffering of the Jewish people; not because they woke up one morning and felt their conscience aching that they wanted to recognize me and suffering of the Palestinian people, but we realized. And we are realizing more and more that this conflict is not about a zero-sum game. It's two winners or two losers.
RAZ: After disengagement, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, will resume his battle for political survival. He faces an unprecedented rebellion within his governing Likud party.
The majority of the Likud grass root opposes the Gaza evacuation. Palestinians fear that will distract him and keep him from dealing with the conflict. But writer Ari Shavit says disengagement will create a momentum impossible to escape.
SHAVIT: Stagnation is not an option anymore. For better and for worse, disengagement will create such a dramatic change that it will be impossible to go back to the old status quo.
RAZ: Disengagement is perceived by both sides as serving very different interests, but there is little doubt the next chapter here is about to open.
Guy Raz, CNN, Jerusalem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Meanwhile, Israel says it's going to go ahead with its controversial plan to fence the largest West Bank settlement of Ma'aleh Adumim. That essentially cuts off Palestinians from East Jerusalem. Palestinians saying that Israel is continuing to expand its settlements in the West Bank and that is not what the Road Map has stated. Palestinians also add that all settlements are illegal under international law.
CLANCY: Now, still ahead: What he said --
VERJEE: And what he now says he meant -- Pat Robertson and his latest thoughts on assassination and taking out someone.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
CLANCY: Welcome back. You are watching your world today. an hour of global news here on CNN International. Let's go to Britain and to the fight against terrorism and the controversy being stirred this day as Home Secretary Charles Clarke published a list of certain types of behavior that will form the basis for excluding or deporting individuals from the United Kingdom. Now this covers any non-U.K. citizen, who would write, publish or distribute materials, speak in public, including preachers, could be people running in a mosque, anyone who runs a Web site or uses a position of responsibility, such as teaching in order to promote extremist views.
Now, unacceptable activities would include just feig or glorifying terrorist violence, provoking others to terrorist acts, and fostering hatred which might lead to inner-community violence.
The crackdown on extremism follows, of course, the London subway bombings and the attempted attacks which followed two weeks later, but there is controversy over these new measures that have been announced by Mr. Clark. Some saying in "The Guardian" today that it's going to divide communities and provide a field day for the lawyers.
VERJEE: Let's check some stories now making news in the United States. Storms flooded waterways in Southern Arizona. The force of the water moving at up to 20 mile answer hour, knocked mobile homes off their foundations. Dozens of people were evacuated. One mother and her two children were rescued by helicopters. A tropical storm watch now blankets much of Florida's East Coast, and storm-wary Floridians are scrambling to stock up and hunker down. Tropical Storm Katrina became the 11th named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season. Normally there are only two or three by this time of the year. It's expected to hit the Sunshine State by Friday. This new tropical storm system comes on the anniversary of one of the most powerful storms to ever strike the U.S. Hurricane Andrew formed on August the 16, 1992.
Over the next 10 days, Andrew hit the Bahamas, South Florida and Louisiana. Andrew came ashore in Florida as a category-five hurricane. Wind gusts were clocked as high as 164 miles an hour. Total damage from the storm was estimated at more than $20 billion.
All right, returning to a story that seems to have captured many imaginations, at least judging from our e-mail inbox. American Christian broadcaster Pat Robertson stirred controversy nationwide when he said covert operatives should take out Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT ROBERTSON, CHRISTIAN BROADCASTER: I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying assassinate him, I think we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war, and I don't think any oil shipments will stop.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: All right, now, this is the way Pat Robertson explained his comments on Wednesday's program.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: August is a slow news day. But it seem like the whole world is talking about my comments about Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez. And that reaction followed a CBN news investigation into the potential danger from the South American dictator. I said, our special forces should, quote, "take him out." And take him out can be a number of things, including kidnapping. There are a number of ways to take out a dictator from power besides killing him. I was misinterpreted by the AP, but that happens always time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: All right, so Pat Robertson there saying he didn't use the word assassinate, but you did hear that in the other clip. However, it's also appropriate perhaps to point out here that Chavez was indeed elected to office. He is not a dictator in that sense of the word, and he just withstood a recall vote just one year ago this month in the midst of demonstrations by hundreds of thousands of people.
Still, in the midst of this flap, millions of Americans awoke this day and asked themselves, who's Hugo Chavez? While millions of Venezuelans awoke and said, well, who's Pat Robertson. A U.S. State Department spokesman called Monday's remarks by Robertson inappropriate, but didn't condemn Robertson, who is a strong supporter of President Bush. Meantime, Venezuelan officials in the U.S. seem to be taking it all quite seriously.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BERNARDO ALVAREZ, VENEZUELAN AMB. TO U.S.: We take that very seriously, because somebody, a well-known person in the U.S., publicly asked the U.S. government to promote and to organize an assassination of a president. So this is something really outrageous. And this is something that -- this is a terrorist act. So we would like, first, a strong condemnation from the authorities in this country. And secondly, also (INAUDIBLE), because there are conventions against terrorism, against people in your country that might be promoting terrorist activities. So this is something that is a very serious thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CLANCY: President Chavez himself pretty much shrugged off the controversy as he wound up a visit to Cuba and talks with another thorn in the side of the United States, Fidel Castro.
As Lucia Newman reports, the two Latin leaders have a number of other things in common.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: Saying goodbye at Havana's airport to his close friend and mentor Fidel Castro, Venezuela's president, Hugo Chavez, didn't want to talk about the Pat Robertson controversy.
HUGO CHAVEZ, PRESIDENT OF VENEZUELA (translator): I don't know who he is and I couldn't care less.
NEWMAN: What he couldn't stop talking about while in Cuba, was his obsession with saving the world from U.S. president, George Bush and so-called U.S. imperialism.
"They are the destabilizers," he said, "the ones represented by Mr. Warlord. They're threatening the world with their invasions and military interventions all over the world."
It's not just political, it's personal. Hugo Chavez convinced, despite us denials, that the White Houses was actively behind a foiled military coo against him back in 2002.
Since then, Chavez has become an unconditional ally of the hemisphere's only communist leader and the closer Hugo Chavez gets to Fidel Castro, the further he gets from the White House, which sees him as a threat to democracy and U.S. interests in the region.
Talking and even dressing like Fidel Castro, Chavez this weekend again called for Latin-American cooperation to free underdeveloped countries from U.S. influence and capitalism, which he claims exploits the poor.
Chavez saying Latin-American countries should ban together and trade together without the U.S. setting terms that favor American interests.
"It's important for our countries that have been so beaten up by capitalism and by the neo-liberalism promoted by the United States," said Chavez.
(on camera): Chavez did have a conciliatory message for the American people: To offer to sell cut-rate Venezuelan gasoline not only to Caribbean nations, but also to underprivileged Americans.
(voice-over): No word whether he would sell through Venezuela's state-owned gas station chain, Citgo, but Chavez clearly willing to use his country's vast oil wealth to make friends and influence people, especially at the expense of the Bush administration.
Lucia Newman, CNN, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CLANCY: Now, relations between the two countries soured some three years ago after President Chavez accused Washington of backing a short-loved coup against him.
As Susan Candiotti tells us, despite its official policy against assassination, the United States has taken that path before.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three Cold War enemies of the U.S. in the 1960s and '70s, Cuba's Fidel Castro, the Belgian Congo's Patrice Lumumba, Chile's Salvador Allende. The U.S. game plan, and experts debate how far it went, "Get rid of them."
PROF. BRUCE BAGLEY, UM INTERNATIONAL STUDIES: We're one of the largest, most powerful countries in the world. Who's going to stop us?
CANDIOTTI: On a sweltering day in Florida, University of Miami Professor Bruce Bagley says the U.S. has paid a high price for its alleged role in political assassinations.
BAGLEY: They're counterproductive, and ultimately they don't serve American purposes.
CANDIOTTI: In 1961, a U.S. government committee found that two CIA officials were instructed to take out the Congo's first prime minister, socialist Patrice Lumumba. They planned to use poison, but before they could, Lumumba was killed by a Congolese firing squad.
BAGLEY: We've also attempted to use bombs and poison, with Fidel Castro exploding cigars, shoe polish, and a variety of other techniques.
CANDIOTTI: In the early '70s, Chile's socialist President Salvador Allende was killed during a coup. America denied involvement, but it's widely believed to have played a role. The consequences: Blowback.
In Castro's case...
BAGLEY: Efforts at assassinating Fidel Castro simply strengthened him internally and justified his further repression, in order to protect himself from the United States.
CANDIOTTI: For decades, chaos followed Lumumba's death in the Congo. In Chile, Augusto Pinochet followed Allende and led a repressive regime for nearly two decades. He's now charged with corruption.
After congressional hearings in the mid-'70s, President Ford, then President Reagan, issued executive orders banning political killings saying, "No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States government shall engage in or conspire to engage in assassination."
A former deputy national security adviser says it's a rule that cuts both ways.
JAMES STEINBERG, FMR. DEP. NAT. SEC. ADVISER: Imagine if people thought that international said, whenever you disagree with the country, you doesn't like the United States Iraq policy, so you're entitled to do something about the leader of the United States, clearly that would be unacceptable.
CANDIOTTI: But as U.S. campaigned to capture or kill Osama bin Laden indicates, for a non-head of state, there are exceptions to the rule.
Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
VERJEE: Just ahead, comments by Pat Robertson about taking out Venezuela's president has given late night comedians a lot of material.
CLANCY: Robertson suggested the move would not stop the oil from flowing out of the country. Here's just a sample.
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JOHN STEWART, HOST, "THE DAILY SHOW": I believe that the Commandment is "Thou shalt not kill, if any of the oil would stop." If it's not going to stop, kill away.
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CLANCY: Well, Zain, we've been just watching this Pat Robertson thing develop and the fallout from the comments that the fundamentalist religious leader in the U.S. said about Venezuela's president reaching now far and wide.
VERJEE: They not only raised eyebrows in political circles, but also among fellow evangelical Christians as well.
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STEVEN WALDMAN, EDITOR, BELIEFNET.COM: People need to realize that when a major Christian leader like this makes comments like that, then some other people are going to think, "Oh, well this is what evangelical Christians are like."
And, you know, Robertson has a responsibility not just as a political leader, but as a religious leader. And other religious leaders need to understand that when he says things like that unchallenged, it creates an impression for American Christians.
(END VIDEO CLIP) VERJEE: Robertson's statements also became the prime target of late-night comedy in the U.S.
CLANCY: And Jon Stewart, who most of you know of the host of Comedy Central's "The Daily Show" took his own shot at the religious leader's assertions.
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STEWART: It's cheaper than war. Pat Robertson is advocating a policy of assassination for the savings. That's the kind of thing you can say when you own your own network.
PAT ROBERTSON, CBN NETWORK: It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war and I don't think any oil shipments will stop.
STEWART: Which is really the only consideration when you are talking about murder; whether or not the oil shipments will stop. I believe it's in the Bible. I believe that the Commandment is "Thou shalt not kill if any of the oil would stop." If it's not going to stop, kill away.
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CLANCY: All right.
VERJEE: John Stewart.
CLANCY: Well, John Stewart's view of it all. You had a lot of views in your e-mails you've been writing to us. Yesterday, I think a lot more people were supportive of Robertson. Today, much less so.
VERJEE: We got some good e-mails from you. YWT@CNN. E-mail us. We really like to hear from you. Tell us where you're from and we'll try get your -- some of your e-mails here on the air.
CLANCY: All right. For now though, we've got to bid you fair well for this day. This has been YOUR WORLD TODAY. I'm Jim Clancy.
VERJEE: And I'm Zain Verjee. This is CNN.
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