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Hurricane Katrina; Lance Armstrong Speaks Out; Sexual Harassment; Narrow Escape For Toddler

Aired August 26, 2005 - 07:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, everybody. It's just about half past the hour on this AMERICAN MORNING. I'm Soledad O'Brien.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: I was just going to say, what a beautiful day in New York it's turning out to be.

O'BRIEN: Yes, it is.

COSTELLO: Lots of haze in the air this moaning. I'm Carol Costello in for Miles.

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to the situation in south Florida. Haze is the least of their problem there. CNN is your hurricane headquarters. And we've been tracking Katrina all night.

Here is the very latest. Katrina is now a category one hurricane after moving across the Florida peninsula. She weakened for a little bit of a time to a tropical storm. Forecasters say, though, it could become a category two hurricane this weekend.

At least four deaths are being blamed on Katrina in and around the Miami area. More than a million customers are without power.

We're going to check in with Chad Myers at the CNN center with the very latest.

(WEATHER REPORT)

O'BRIEN: Let's get right to Jason Carroll now. He is in Miami. He is near a highway overpass that is, as you can see, is just destroyed by Katrina's force.

Jason, good morning to you. How bad is it?

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Soledad.

As bad as can you get, at least right here. Take a look. You can see we're standing about just 100 yards from where that collapse happened. This is an overpass that covers the 836, which is commonly known as the Dolphin Expressway. That's the main expressway that runs east-west through Dade County. Just about east from here, downtown Miami, about 15 minutes away.

It was last night, though, Soledad, about 9:00 p.m. when one of those strong wind gusts came through here, blew out one of the beams supporting the overpass. And what they are theorizing is that once that one beam went down, it created a domino effect. And that in turn knocked down at least a dozen beams which supported this overpass, which was under construction.

The debris that you see out there fell on top of the eastbound lane of the 836. The east and westbound lanes are closed.

Last night, rescue crews that came down here used infrared equipment, as well as four dog teams to search for anyone who might be trapped. Fortunately, no one was.

Now, these crews are charged with trying to clean it all up and get it cleared out. They have no estimate in terms of when they might be able to do that and get that reopened. They're going to be using heavy cranes out here, as well as torches, to try to get it cut up and cleaned up and try to get it all out of here.

In terms of what we saw last night, though, this is the worst. We came up from Deerfield Beach, which is about an hour north of here. Basically, what we saw was mostly downed trees, power lines on the way down here, but this is most of the destruction that we saw from Hurricane Katrina -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: A little bit of good news then in that it was an overpass that was under construction and not being used. Jason Carroll, thanks. Appreciate the update.

You'll want to stay with us all morning for updates on Katrina. CNN, of course, is your hurricane headquarters.

It's time to get another check of the headlines now with Kelly Wallace.

Good morning to you, Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. And hello, everyone.

These stories "Now in the News."

Iraqi lawmakers are still hoping to finalize a new constitution. After missing three deadlines, talks are expected to go through today to try and work out an agreement. President Bush is also said to have phoned in support this week, urging the Iraqis to make sure all sides are heard. If no agreement is reached, the document could be decided directly by the Iraqi people in an October referendum.

CIA Director Porter Goss is reportedly deciding whether to take disciplinary action against current and former intelligence officials for failures leading up to September 11. According to "The New York Times," former CIA Director George Tenet and several others are criticized for failing to develop and carry out a strategic plan to take on al Qaeda in the years before 2001. It's all part of a report delivered to Senate and House intelligence committees earlier this week. It is being called one of the deadliest fires in Paris in recent years. French officials say a seven-story apartment building turned into an inferno overnight, killing at least 17 people. Up to 100 children may have been inside the building when the fire broke out. Authorities say the death toll could still rise.

And former baseball great Dwight Gooden expected to appear in court today. Tampa police say Gooden turned himself in Thursday after three days on the run. He had been missing since a Tampa police officer pulled him over on suspicion of drunken driving. The court appearance today is related to a domestic violence charge from March. Gooden is also expected to face new charges for fleeing police. Sad news about Gooden.

Back to Soledad now.

O'BRIEN: All right, Kelly, thanks.

WALLACE: Sure.

O'BRIEN: Well, seven-time Tour de France champion Lance Armstrong is speaking out against an allegation that he has taken a performance-enhancing drug. Armstrong appeared on "LARRY KING LIVE" for his first television interview since the report appeared in the French sports newspaper, "L'Equipe," charges that Armstrong calls preposterous.

Here is a little bit more from that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LANCE ARMSTRONG, TOUR DE FRANCE CHAMPION: Our defense when we look at this thing and we say -- and I guess I try to ask people to sit in my seat and say, "OK, you know, a guy in a French -- in a Parisian laboratory opens up your sample, you know, Jean-Francis so and so, and he tests it. Nobody's there to observe. No protocol was followed. And then you get a phone call from a newspaper that says we found you to be positive six times for EPO."

Well, since when did newspapers start governing sports? I mean, Bob, you know baseball well. When an athlete's positive, Major League Baseball calls and they handle it in the correct way. When does a newspaper decide they're going to govern and sanction athletes? That's not the way it works. And...

BOB COSTAS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: When -- go ahead.

ARMSTRONG: And nowadays, we all want clean sport. And fortunately, an organization called WADA has come along and has really governed the world of anti-doping. They have set about a protocol and a code that everybody has to live by. And they violated the code several times.

They don't have an answer for it. You know, you talk to the head of WADA and he doesn't have an answer. You talk to the head of the French Ministry for Sport, he doesn't have an answer. The lab runs from it. The only person who's sticking by the story is "L'Equipe."

COSTAS: Here's the head of the World Anti-doping Agency, Richard Pound, a long-time Olympic official. He said this week, "It's not a he said-she said scenario. There were documents. Unless the documents are forgeries or manipulations of them it's a case that has to be answered."

ARMSTRONG: You know what? It is absolutely a case of he said- she said. What else can it be? Do you think I'm going to trust some guy in a French lab to open my samples and say they're positive and announce that to the world and not give me the chance to defend myself? That's ludicrous. There is no way you can do that.

COSTAS: Do you plan legal action?

ARMSTRONG: That's the most commonly asked question in the last three or four days and it's a possibility. We would have to decide who we -- we're going to pursue, whether it was the lab, whether it was "L'Equipe, " whether it was the sports minister, whether it was WADA. All of these people violated a serious code of ethics.

LARRY KING, CNN HOST: But, Lance, if you're totally clean, why not sue them all, since they all have some part in this? Can you unequivocally say you have never used an illegal substance ever?

ARMSTRONG: Listen, I've said it for seven years. I've said it for longer than seven years. I have never doped. I can say it again. But I've said it for seven years. It doesn't help. But the fact of the matter is I haven't. And if you consider my situation -- a guy who comes back from arguably, you know, a death sentence -- why would I then enter into a sport and dope myself up and risk my life again? That's crazy. I would never do that. No. No way.

KING: So, why not, as Bob asked, why not sue them all?

ARMSTRONG: You know, lawsuits are two things: They're very costly, and they're very time-consuming. And fortunately, cycling has been great to me, and I have the money and the resources to do something like that. But you know, I'm retired...

COSTAS: You've done it before. You have civil cases pending.

ARMSTRONG: I do. Absolutely.

COSTAS: You've been litigious before when you felt it was justified.

ARMSTRONG: Yes and you know what? At the end of the day when you sue somebody, it just keeps a bad story alive forever. It gives them the opportunity to say oh, we found this, oh, we did that. It gives them more credit than they deserve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: In our next hour, we're going to talk with Steve Malley (ph) of "ESPN" the magazine about whether Armstrong made a convincing case in his interview. What do you think?

COSTELLO: He was strong, wasn't he?

O'BRIEN: Yes.

COSTELLO: He's mad.

O'BRIEN: He's angry, yes he is.

COSTELLO: For maybe good reason.

O'BRIEN: And it's an interesting question. You know, do you take legal action? And who do you take it against? Do you take on the...

COSTELLO: Well, usually people sue everyone, don't they?

O'BRIEN: Yes, but, you know, he's retired. Do you want to spend the next X number of years in court fighting it?

COSTELLO: To clear my name? Oh, yes.

O'BRIEN: Well, the newspaper sullied his name, not -- you know, he doesn't have to clear his name against false charges.

COSTELLO: Well, who released those papers from the French lab?

O'BRIEN: Right, you know.

COSTELLO: Exactly. So, I'd be pretty upset at the French lab.

O'BRIEN: Right.

COSTELLO: But we'll debate that later.

O'BRIEN: The two of us will debate that throughout the morning.

COSTELLO: We'll take it outside.

The military is taking steps to ensure that what happened at the U.S. Air Force Academy from 1993 to 2003 never happens again. One hundred forty-two sexual assaults were reported at the academy during that period. The Air Force made sweeping changes. And the Pentagon created a task force to look at sexual harassment and assault at the army and naval academies. That report was released on Thursday.

Delilah Rumberg is the civilian co-chair of the panel, and she joins us now live from Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.

Good morning, Delilah.

DELILAH RUMBERG, CO-CHAIRWOMAN DEFENSE TASK FORCE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: So tell us how pervasive sexual assault and sexual harassment was at the army and naval facilities. RUMBERG: Well, what we found that the more pervasive problem was sexual harassment. Certainly, we did have numbers of individuals that were sexually assaulted as well. But the greater problem was sexual harassment.

COSTELLO: How serious did it get?

RUMBERG: Well, we had cadets and midshipmen, and in the surveys we found that it was about 50 percent of the women indicated that they had been sexually harassed during their time at the academy.

COSTELLO: Fifty percent!

RUMBERG: Yes.

COSTELLO: That's a huge percentage. Let me ask you the question this way. I mean, to me, the military is kind of set up not equal to women, because you can't go in and hold the same positions as men do within the military. Doesn't that lend itself to sexual harassment?

RUMBERG: Actually, it does. It's because we find that the women and men are already there, and we do know that there is still a huge population, particularly men, that believe women do not belong there. And so when you have a culture that is not accepting of that minority population, then, yes, you do create an environment that sexual harassment can exist very easily.

COSTELLO: And you came up with these recommendations. There are 44 of them.

RUMBERG: Yes.

COSTELLO: We don't have time to go through them all. But we've picked out a couple. So let's go through those. The first one, midshipmen and cadets must assume more responsibility for holding others accountable.

RUMBERG: And we think that's probably as important as anything else that we say in this report, because these young men and women are our future leaders. And they have a responsibility to address sexual harassment when they see it. And, you know, they're guilty, as just like any other of our young people, of bystander mentality.

I don't think they make that connection. Remember, these are really young individuals, and they're making the transition from adolescence to adulthood. I don't think they realize how serious sexual harassment is. And then when you have that environment that, you know, it's more easily to move into other, you know, greater offenses, you know, like sexual assault.

COSTELLO: And it's such a macho culture, too. OK, the second recommendation we're going to talk about. Increase the number of women in officer positions.

RUMBERG: And I think that's critical. We want to increase the number of women that have high-visibility positions, faculty, staff at those locations at the academies. But we also would like to see more women joining the academies. We would like to see that number increased to 20 percent at least, because somewhere between 20 and 30 percent you reach a critical mass. And then women would no longer be considered a minority. I think there are currently between 15 to 17 percent of women at the academies now.

COSTELLO: This one is kind of surprising. Communications about sexual assault should become privileged.

RUMBERG: Yes.

COSTELLO: You would assume that would always be the case.

RUMBERG: Well, that hasn't been the case in the military and at the academies. As you know, most states have privileged communications for victims of sexual assault. And so that is one of our key recommendations that individuals at the academies have privileged communications.

Now, recently there was a directive that became effective in June, where individuals will have privileged communications.

COSTELLO: And by that, you mean you keep it between whoever you tell.

RUMBERG: Right.

COSTELLO: You don't have to report it to the authorities as a crime, just to be clear on that. But let's move on to the next one.

RUMBERG: Exactly.

COSTELLO: But let's move on to the next one now. Military codes revised to clearly identify sexual misconduct. What does that mean?

RUMBERG: Well, we realize that the codes, although they could try the cases with the current military codes, what we found it was more difficult, because as they read now there has to be force without consent. And most of the cases we saw at the academies were not cases that included force. It was usually about consent, and the two individuals usually where the assault happened there was alcohol involved. And that's the most common case. And we don't feel like that the current UMCJ addresses that well enough to easily prosecute those kind of cases.

COSTELLO: Delilah Rumberg, civilian co-chair of the Defense Task Force on sexual harassment and violence. Thanks for joining us this morning.

RUMBERG: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: Still to come, winter is months away, but now is the time to prepare for those sky-high heating bills. Yes. Money saving tips in "Minding Your Business."

O'BRIEN: Oh, that's some good news. COSTELLO: Yes.

O'BRIEN: Something to think about.

COSTELLO: Something to look forward to.

O'BRIEN: Also, here is some good news. We're going to meet a little baby boy. Look at him. He's so cute. Well, he fell down a 15-foot hole. You're looking at the man who rescued him, along with his team. We've got their harrowing story coming up next on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A follow-up now on that narrow escape for a New Jersey toddler a little bit earlier in the week. Sixteen-month-old John Michael Butterfield was playing at a park on Monday when he fell down a 15-foot-long hole. The rescue team arrived. The hole was so narrow, though, that the first firefighter who tried to get to him couldn't fit. Well, then another firefighter, Jim Pfeiffer, gave it a try. And he was able to slide down the hold head-first being held at the other end by a rope.

Jim Pfeiffer joins us from the Westfield, New Jersey, firehouse, along with little John Michael, John Michael, Jr., and his father, John Butterfield, Sr.

Hi, guys. Nice to see you. Look at you bonding, Jim, already. I know you're not a dad, but you're kind of taking to it. You guys have -- and I see you bouncing him.

JIM PFEIFFER, FIREFIGHTER SAVED TODDLER: Good morning.

JOHN BUTTERFIELD: Good morning.

PFEIFFER: Yes, he's pretty good taking to me. I've seen him a lot lately. So we're pretty much used to each other by now.

O'BRIEN: Oh, and so cute to see. I want you to walk me through this rescue, because I can't imagine what was going through your mind. You get a call that there's a baby who has fallen down a hole. And when you get there, that's a really, really deep hole. A couple of firefighters have tried it, they can't get down. And then you were sent down. What was the strategy? How did you get down the hole?

PFEIFFER: Well, like I said, the first firefighter tried to go down. Unfortunately, he's a little bit more of a muscular build and wasn't able to fit. The decision was then made by the chief officers that, myself being the thinner one there, that they would tie some life safety ropes up to me and lower me down head-first into the hole.

O'BRIEN: So you did a headstand, is that right? They tied the ropes on you, and they put you down the hole.

PFEIFFER: That's correct. A larger firefighter and a pretty tall police officer were able to hold my ankles straight up and basically do a swan dive down into the hole.

O'BRIEN: Were you...

PFEIFFER: And other firefighters...

O'BRIEN: Go ahead.

PFEIFFER: I'm sorry, go ahead. Other firefighters were on the ground, and they were able to control my descent by acting as anchor for the life safety rope.

O'BRIEN: In a lot of ways, John Jr. was very lucky, because he got stuck. He didn't go all the way down to the bottom. And if he had, he would of hit water. He only went sort of to the bottom. And so, you had to go down about 12 to 15 feet to grab him. You're going down head first, and you see him. How did he look to you? Was he panicking?

PFEIFFER: Well, we really couldn't see too much of him. We were able to see his hair. And unfortunately, it wasn't this beautiful blond hair that we see now. It was more of a dark brown hair. We couldn't see his face. His face was pretty much pressed up against the wall, the hole, the dirt portion of it. But we could see his left-hand side and his chest rising and falling, and so we knew he was breathing. But he did stop crying. And with infants, when a child stops crying it's a warning sign that something could be going wrong there.

O'BRIEN: Well, especially a little jumpy 16-month-old, as we're seeing right here as he moves around. And soon as they get very still you get very nervous. So then you reached out and grabbed him. And what happened?

PFEIFFER: I got about a foot above him. And I kind of got a little stuck. I yelled up to the guys up the hole that I needed about another foot. I took in one last deep breath and rolled my shoulders a little bit, and I was able to wiggle down to him.

When I was right above him, he did start to cry like he's crying now. And I think he did realize that I was above him. And I was able to grab his shoulder blades. And I yelled up that I had him. And it was instantaneously those the guys on the ground had us up.

O'BRIEN: You know, you hear a cry from a baby, and it might be loud and annoying, you're thinking, oh, thank God, because he's fine. You know, I think he dropped his toy actually. If you want to grab that while we keep talking it's actually fine, because, you know, he's 16 months old. He's going to do whatever he's going to do. So you grabbed him and you brought him up. What was going through your mind? You must have been just incredibly relieved?

PFEIFFER: You know, I really -- when I think back about it, I really don't remember what I was thinking really. We just grabbed him, and we knew we had to get him out. And I got up to the hole with him. I rolled over on my side and handed him off to another firefighter, who brought him in the ambulance and started evaluating him. And from then that was really the end of my contact until we were both in the hospital later that afternoon.

O'BRIEN: Then let's turn to John Sr., because I know John Jr. can't talk yet. How is he doing? He looks terrific. You must be absolutely completely relieved.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We lost the feed.

O'BRIEN: Oh, I think that -- can you guys still hear me or no?

John Sr., oh, it looks like they're having a few audio problems. If you guys could ask him if you can hear me. I just wanted to know how he's feeling. He must be utterly relieved. And how do you thank someone who has just saved the life of your son? I mean, I don't know that words would kind of cover it.

BUTTERFIELD: Well, we'll be thanking Jim and the Westfield Fire Department, I mean, I think everyday for the rest of John Michael's life. We're just so grateful that they responded so quickly. And they were just so ingenious in how quickly they got down the hole and brought John Michael up. Thank god for their quick response and that John Michael is here with us today.

O'BRIEN: Yes, you know, I hear you. That's great work to not only the firefighter, Jim Pfeiffer, but also the whole team, because there are other people at the end of the rope putting you down and pulling you back up. And, of course, Mr. Butterfield, Sr., thanks for being with us. We appreciate it. And, John Michael, you did pretty well, you know? You did pretty well for being 16 months old. He stayed kind of still. Thanks, guys. We appreciate it.

COSTELLO: At the end of the interview, he's quiet.

O'BRIEN: Exactly. Well, that's the way it is. When it doesn't matter anymore, suddenly, they're very calm.

A short break. We're back in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Winter might be months away but it is never too early to talk about high heating bills that are coming.

Ellen McGirt is in for Andy Serwer. She is "Minding Your Business" this morning.

Good morning.

ELLEN MCGIRT, "MONEY" MAGAZINE: Good morning.

Yes, sticker shock at the pump that we're feeling today. And, of course, it's hot and beautiful most of the country. But looking ahead things are grim.

Analysts are expecting 25 to 40 percent increases in fuel prices this winter at a time when people are saving less and less and spending more and more just to get from here to there. But there are some things that people can do.

O'BRIEN: Give me some of those tips.

MCGIRT: First of all, get an energy audit of your home.

O'BRIEN: From whom, the energy company?

MCGIRT: You can call the utilities. Many of them are actually free. You can also call your home insurer and see if they can either offer one for free or recommend a certified person in your area. You can save lots and lots of money. They're incredibly high-tech these days. For do-it-yourselfers, go to the Department of Energy's Web site. They give you a whole checklist of things you can do yourself with an amazing home audit tool.

O'BRIEN: You say shop around. What does that mean?

MCGIRT: You know, Enron, bad for shareholders, but deregulation is good for lots of people in lots of parts of this country, because there is competitive pricing for electricity. Many municipalities are recommending -- are mandating it, in fact. But before you just go to the yellow pages or start Googling service providers in your areas, know what you spend for a year. Call a utility. Get one year's worth of bills so you know you can spend. And you know what? You might be able to save.

O'BRIEN: Your other advice, we should fill up now, you say, and lock in an affordable mortgage. We're out of time, but thanks, Ellen.

MCGIRT: Nice to be with you.

O'BRIEN: It's nice to see you. We'll see you in the next hour.

MCGIRT: OK.

O'BRIEN: A short break. We're back in just a moment. You're watching AMERICAN MORNING.

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