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CNN Live At Daybreak

647 Shiite Pilgrims Dead in Stampede in Baghdad; Aftermath of Hurricane Katrina

Aired August 31, 2005 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Let's head to the forecast center now and check in with Chad.
(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: Some of the worst fears are being realized in New Orleans. There has been widespread looting, which led to National Guard troops being sent to downtown. Here, you can see people coming out of a drugstore in the French Quarter. You can see their arms are full of food and diapers and pretty much anything else they can carry.

As to why they're doing this, listen to this guy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If it was wrong, police would be out there right now blocking it off. You know that (INAUDIBLE).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: If you didn't understand it, he says if it was wrong police would be there to pick him up. And he also added, when the reporter asked this question, "Wouldn't you be looting?"

All of this while hundreds are still being rescued from their rooftops. We're still trying to get in touch with John Zarrella, who is in New Orleans. But as you can understand, getting a cell phone signal out of the city is nearly impossible. We will continue to try to get him in the last half-hour of DAYBREAK. And, of course, they'll try to get him on "AMERICAN MORNING" as well.

For hundreds of thousands of people who have evacuated New Orleans, there is nothing to return to. They've essentially evacuated their lives.

Natalie Brown is one of them. She joins us live from Columbia, South Carolina.

Good morning, Natalie.

NATALIE BROWN, EVACUATED NEW ORLEANS: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: Well, let's start at the beginning. You went to school in New Orleans, along with your boyfriend. You had a job there. You were renting a house. And you decided to evacuate early. How did you decide what to take with you? BROWN: It was hard. Part of the problem with the evacuation was that, you know, only the day before we evacuated they were saying that this thing was going to hit in the Florida panhandle. So, really, no one was paying attention. I had noticed from watching the news and from watching the National Hurricane Center on the Internet that everything was starting to move over towards New Orleans.

So, we actually got up at 4:00 in the morning. We only had about an hour of sleep and saw that the forecast tracks had actually moved over New Orleans. So, at 4:00 in the morning on Saturday morning, we started, you know, packing up whatever we could.

And we had some roommates who were actually at a wedding in New Jersey at the time. So, we were on the phone with them, you know, between the wedding and the wedding reception trying to figure out what to take out for them. We took out their dogs. We took out their cats. We took out their insurance papers. We took out, you know, their heirlooms and their photos and whatever we could get out for them.

We took a little bit of clothes out for us. We took out our journals. We took out, you know, some of our photos and the stuff that's really important and you can't live without. And everything else we're expecting right now is probably not going to make it.

COSTELLO: Yes. So, you guys are staying with your parents in South Carolina. Is there any way to get in touch with the place where you worked or where you lived?

BROWN: Not really. Communication into New Orleans pretty much is nonexistent. Even trying to get in touch with a lot of the friends who we know got out is getting really difficult. Cell phones with New Orleans numbers aren't really working even outside of New Orleans. So, maybe one -- you can call out on your cell phone, but maybe one in five calls are getting into you. So, it's getting really difficult to find people.

And also, a lot of e-mail addresses are bouncing. If you had a Tulane e-mail address or a UNO e-mail address or anything that had a server in New Orleans, those are under water right now, too. So, all of those are bouncing.

I'm starting to find friends on Web sites and forums that we used to talk through. So, we're starting to find -- you know, almost all of our friends got out. There are still a few missing. One of the women in my dance troops, she's actually one of the directors, ended up in Biloxi to ride it out. So, we haven't heard from her, obviously, since, I guess Sunday morning.

COSTELLO: Yes.

BROWN: So, we're concerned about her.

COSTELLO: So, do you think about going back? Or have you given up? BROWN: We finally gave up last night. It was really hard. You know, we left town, and you have this vague notion that if the worst happens you can't come back. But it's just kind of this vague idea that you can't really get your head wrapped around. So, we've settled in South Carolina.

And we were watching the news. We stayed up all night on Sunday night. And, you know, we were taking naps in between and kind of watching the news in shifts. And on Monday, it actually looked like we would be able to go back pretty soon.

I lived uptown. And uptown and the French Quarter were looking just wonderful on the TV. They were dry. It looked like there was some wind damage, but it wasn't so bad. So, we were thinking, you know, maybe in a week or two, we'll be able to go back.

And, you know, last night when they said they couldn't repair the levees, that was when it finally hit us that we can't go home anymore. It's -- you know, we can't go back to live there anymore. It's going to take so many months, and everything that we have is going to be gone. The infrastructure is going to be gone. Our jobs are going to be gone. The housing is going to be gone. The economy is going to be gone.

It finally hit us that if we do go back, it will be to sift through whatever is left and to see if there anything worth salvaging and taking out with us. And then we're going to have to start fresh somewhere else somehow.

COSTELLO: Oh, that's just so sad to hear you say that, because New Orleans is such a carefree kind of place. In fact, you know, I know you told one of our producers that the day before the storm hit people were partying as they always do. And, you know, they're really laid-back people there. And then all of this trauma.

BROWN: Yes. Well, I grew up as a military brat. So, I've lived in a lot of places. And there's no place like New Orleans. I've been there for about six years now. And, you know, I don't really mind losing my stuff. You know, it's just stuff. It's just clothes. It's -- you know, we lost a car. But so what? That's replaceable.

What really kills me is that the city is gone and the culture is gone. And it's going to take years. And even if they try to put it back together, it's not going to be the same, because there are going to be so many -- it's the people that made up New Orleans, and they're going to be gone at this point. I don't think that any of us are going to be able to go back. We're going to have to start our lives somewhere else.

COSTELLO: Well, I hope you're wrong, Natalie. But good luck to you and your boyfriend. And thank you for talking with us this morning.

BROWN: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Natalie Brown talking to us from South Carolina. DAYBREAK will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Hospitals have not been spared the wrath of Hurricane Katrina. Authorities have had to evacuate patients from several hospitals across Louisiana.

Richard Zuschlag of Acadian Ambulance Service has overseen hundreds of those evacuations. He joins us now live from New Orleans.

Good morning, sir.

RICHARD ZUSCHLAG, ACADIAN AMBULANCE SERVICE: Good morning.

COSTELLO: Let's start with the hospital evacuations and how you have helped.

ZUSCHLAG: Well, we sent 100 ambulances -- about 60 from Acadian Ambulance and 40 from Texas and north Louisiana -- to a staging area at I-10 and Causeway yesterday morning. And we moved patients all day long from that elevated part of I-10 back up to the Pete Maravich Center in Baton Rouge, where they set up a temporary hospital to triage the patients, and then distribute them to the rest of the hospitals in the state.

Our problem is this: We've got six major hospitals in New Orleans, and the rising water has shut off their generators. And they're in a serious situation now, because they have patients that need to have electricity. They use the generators to make oxygen and other vital circuits that they need to keep these patients alive.

So, late last night we flew some portable generators into those hospitals. We used eight of our air ambulance helicopters plus the military helicopters to fly patients all night long. We moved approximately 200 patients by air in the last 24 hours, about 800 patients by ground.

But we really are going to have our work cut out for us today. I think that because of all of the additional support that has come in from the oil company helicopters, air logistics, petroleum helicopters, and particularly the military. This boat off the cost of Louisiana, the USS Pontoon, they had five major helicopters that came into the Superdome last night. And they have really lent a special hand to us.

Part of the problem that we're having is that if the water goes higher, more and more rescue people are getting up on top of the interstates, and there's tremendous confusion between the patients we're trying to get and the refugees that are trying to get out of New Orleans. We had a lot of trouble managing the crowds, and we're hoping that the military and the state police will be able to help us with that today.

COSTELLO: I know they're sending more National Guard troops into New Orleans right now. I want to show our viewers this picture, because you were talking about how you need electricity to, like, generate the oxygen tanks. This is Evelyn Turner, and she's crying alongside the body of her common-law husband. He died in New Orleans. They couldn't find a way to leave the city. He had lung cancer. He was on oxygen in their home, and there was no electricity to run the oxygen.

So, as you can see, she wrapped her husband, and then simply waited for someone to come and pick up his body.

How many scenes like this are you seeing?

ZUSCHLAG: I am very concerned. The water is hiding an awful lot of problems. And I think once we get these hospitals evacuated, which may take another 36 to 48 hours, once the water recedes -- and God knows when that's going to happen -- I think we're going to see hundreds and hundreds of those situations.

COSTELLO: Richard Zuschlag, thanks for all of your great work.

ZUSCHLAG: Thank you.

COSTELLO: An awesome job you're doing. I know it's much appreciated.

ZUSCHLAG: Well, we really appreciate all of those that have come together to assist in this evacuation. The state and the federal government and all of the local ambulance providers, many of which are private ambulance companies, have really helped make this happen.

COSTELLO: Yes. We know how great emergency workers are. And, you know, the spirit and the will of the American people, too, I'm sure that things -- cash, money, anything -- that these people need will be pouring in from those more fortunate than them this morning. Thank you, Richard.

ZUSCHLAG: Thank you for your good coverage.

COSTELLO: Thanks.

Images of destruction in coastal Mississippi can easily be compared to those we saw after the killer tsunami in Southern Asia last year. Entire blocks have been wiped out, leaving not only debris, but death, too, as we were just talking about.

CNN's Ted Rowlands is in Biloxi, Mississippi, this morning.

Hello, Ted.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Carol.

A lot of grim reality checks, like we just heard there, in terms of what will be found in the next few days. Along the Mississippi Gulf Coast, it is presumed that the death toll will rise dramatically as crews continue to search for rescue opportunities. And as they do that, they have been coming across bodies. Yesterday, we heard crews going out with spray paint cans and putting X's on homes that had bodies inside and circles around actual bodies that they had come across, just overwhelmed, and they couldn't transport them at this time.

The federal government is helping out with specialized teams that are coming in to areas like this that have been completely leveled. Just rubble here where there used to be a home, and now it is just rubble. They're going through with these teams that specialize in collapsed buildings. There are 18 of these 70-person teams on the ground, and more are on the way.

They also have specialized mortuary teams deployed to deal with bodies that they come across.

This is a grim task that will take days, if not weeks, before they get into full recovery mode. And it may be years before places like Biloxi here and other communities along the Mississippi Gulf Coast are where they were before Katrina hit.

COSTELLO: You know, Ted, I got this interesting e-mail from Michael, and he is asking this question: "If there were mandatory evacuations in place, why weren't the people forced to leave?"

Now, we know in New Orleans that some of those people had nowhere to go. So, you couldn't really forcibly evacuate them from the city. But your response to that.

ROWLANDS: Well, you know, it's funny. We were talking about that yesterday with a member of law enforcement. And they said they can't force (AUDIO GAP)...

COSTELLO: Oh, we lost transmission with Ted. We apologize for that.

But he was saying they talked to law enforcement agents, and they said you can't force people to leave. Plus, you would need, like, a great number of police officers to force everyone to leave in one community only.

Coming up next on DAYBREAK, how do you force flood waters to recede? An engineering fete awaits the experts in New Orleans.

But first, here's a look at conditions this morning in Biloxi.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It's 6:50 Eastern Time. Here is what will be making news today.

Louisiana's governor has declared a day of prayer as her state struggles to recover from Hurricane Katrina. Governor Kathleen Blanco was asking people to pray for the victims and the rescuers for the strength to make it through this crisis.

President Bush is heading back to Washington from his ranch in Crawford two days earlier than planned. The White House says the president wanted to get back so he can oversee federal response to the hurricane.

And the Navy is sending four amphibious ships from Norfolk, Virginia, to the Gulf Coast. The ships will be loaded with water and other supplies for the millions of people whose lives have been turned upside down by Katrina.

There is confusion in New Orleans this morning surrounding its most important challenge. That is how to get the water out. Breeches in two levees are sending water from Lake Pontchartrain into the streets.

The mayor came out, yearning for a plan to plug up the holes, but there seems to be too many different entities trying to fix the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there too many cooks in the kitchen? Is that what I hear you saying, Mr. Mayor?

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: Absolutely. In my opinion, there's way too many freaking -- excuse me -- cooks in the kitchen. We had this implementation plan going. They should have done the sandbagging operations first thing this morning, and it didn't get done. And quite frankly, I'm very upset about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: What is the best and fastest way to get that done?

Paul Work is an associate professor of civil and environmental engineering at Georgia Tech's campus in Savannah.

Good morning, Paul.

PAUL WORK, PROFESSOR, GEORGIA TECH: Good morning.

COSTELLO: First of all, can you explain to us how these breeches occurred? And we have a graphic, so we can show our viewers as well to show that these levees are surrounding the city, basically walls protecting the city from water. And there were breeches in two places. Tell us how this could have happened.

WORK: Well, I haven't seen a whole lot of information about this particular failure, but one common mode is you get water that comes over the top. And it starts to scour a small channel through. And once that starts, it can grow pretty quickly and form an ever-widening gap.

COSTELLO: So, it's sort of erodes the side and then pours into the city.

WORK: Yes. Once it erodes the top, it starts to get wider and deeper pretty quickly. COSTELLO: The mayor was complaining that measures were not taken soon enough. In fact, they were diverted to rescue people from homes. He says that made the problem worse. Did it?

WORK: Well, that's a pretty tough call, I think. Of course, the sooner you stop this problem, and you don't want this gap to get any wider, but at the same time there might be people in major trouble. While you're trying to plug that hole, there are people that might be drowning. So, which do you do?

COSTELLO: Yes, that is a touch call. One of the breeches is just huge. It's, like, more than two blocks long. So, how do you plug a hole that size? Some of the methods we've heard, they're taking these sandbags, filling them with gravel. They weigh 3,000 pounds. And they're using helicopters to drop them into the hole. Is that the best way?

WORK: Well, whatever they put in there is going to have to be big and heavy. It's a little bit like trying to build a dam across a river. I guess what will happen eventually, I don't know how close the water level is in the city to that of the lake, but eventually they'll by pretty well equalized. And you won't have quite as much flow passing through there.

COSTELLO: I think Chad knows the answer to that question. Chad, I don't know if you've paying attention. Hopefully you have.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Carol, what I really actually wanted to know, and I'll let him get back to that in a second, because I actually wasn't, but because I was looking at this letter from the Army Corps of Engineers. And the Army Corps of Engineers there are calling it a flood wall, not a levee. I was wondering if you could describe the difference.

WORK: Well, one description that I read was that they did have a wall made of steel and concrete with a levee behind it.

MYERS: Oh, OK.

WORK: I haven't seen any drawings of that. But it sounded like water came over that wall, and then caused this levee behind it to fail.

MYERS: Carol, I'm sorry, back to you.

COSTELLO: Oh, Paul, you were asking the question of how close the river was to the city. It's very close, right, Chad? It's right there.

WORK: No. My question was, the water within the city has been rising, and eventually it's going to rise to the point where it's the same level as the lake.

MYERS: Right. The lake went down a little bit yesterday, because of just tidal influences. But obviously when the high tide comes back, the lake is going back up today again. WORK: Yes. So what happens then is the city becomes a bay off of the lake.

MYERS: Right.

WORK: And you have tides going in and out through this opening. So, it's easier to plug a hole when you don't have water flowing through there. But, of course, you're still going to have even the tides going through there.

COSTELLO: So, what is the best way for them to plug that hole?

WORK: That again is a tough question. I guess maybe you could focus on trying to prevent it from widening anymore by focusing on the ends. And once you get that stabilized, try to start filling it in with big, heavy stuff. And eventually you reach a point where you have kind of a leaky dam. And maybe at that point you can start pumping the water out, or you try to finish plugging the leaks. But it's a tough problem.

COSTELLO: How tough is this? Like, is it virtually impossible? Or -- I mean, we have some brilliant minds in this country. And we hope they figure out a solution to this problem soon.

WORK: No, it's not impossible. Like I said, it's a little bit like trying to build a dam across a river. And the hardest part is the last part, because you're funneling all of the river water through a small gap, which tends to scour things out. But they dump all kinds of stuff in there -- big, heavy rocks and concrete and equipment to plug it off. And we've built many dams.

COSTELLO: Paul Work, thank you for joining us this morning. We appreciate it.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We've spent a lot of time covering the devastation from Katrina in major cities, but the hurricane also hit hundreds of small communities particularly hard, from the storm's western edge in Dauphin Island, Alabama, to the eastern island of Grand Isle in Louisiana. We wanted to let you know how some of the smaller Gulf Coast towns are faring and what's ahead for them.

On Grand Isle, Louisiana, the five residents who stayed to ride out the storm did survive. The small town's mayor says three of the people holed up in City Hall. Two more had to be rescued from trees. The bridge to the island buckled in the storm.

Moving east into Mississippi now, Governor Haley Barbour says the damage in the state's southern counties is worse than he expected. Hundreds of homes in the town of Pass Christian have been reduced to splinters, and pine trees in forests around the town snapped like twigs. The bridge connecting the area to Bay Saint Louis has been destroyed. In Long Beach, Mississippi, up to 90 percent of the buildings are gone. The governor says it will likely be years before this area is restored. One survivor to note this morning.

The 600-year-old Friendship Tree, I wish we had a picture of it, but it is the symbol of Long Beach. It made it through. It lost only one branch and a bunch of leaves and now stands as a symbol for the community's determination to recover from Katrina as well.

Also on Dauphin Island in Alabama, a wayward oil drilling platform washed ashore. The resort island's 1,200 residents all evacuated. The area's emergency management official says he has no idea where that oil platform came from.

From the Time Warner center in New York, I'm Carol Costello.

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