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Nancy Grace

Law & Order Breakdown in New Orleans

Aired September 01, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, in New Orleans, law and order break down -- shootings, widespread looting, continued carjackings and armed gangs roaming the city`s flooded streets. Tonight, as the law is stretched to the limit, thousands feared dead, thousands more seeking shelter, looking desperately for the ones they love, missing in the flood waters covering three states.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Tonight, in New Orleans, thousands believed dead, thousands more homeless and missing in three states across the Southland, 30,000 troops deployed in the largest military relief effort in U.S. history. Chaos rules, and law and order the latest victim. The New Orleans mayor says he`ll take all means necessary to stop widespread looting, arson, gunfire and mayhem across the city now largely under water.

And tonight, breaking news from Aruba. The chief suspect in the disappearance of 18-year-old American girl Natalee Holloway, the Aruban judge`s son, Joran Van Der Sloot, will be released from jail by Saturday! Repeat. Van der Sloot released from jail by Saturday, according to Van Der Sloot`s own family.

We go live to Aruba, but first to the country`s Southland. Tonight, in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Lieutenant Colonel Peter Schneider of the Louisiana National Guard. In Baton Rouge, Congressman Bobby Jindal, who represents a New Orleans district hard hit by Katrina. In Montgomery, Alabama, Lieutenant Colonel Robert Horton of the Alabama National Guard. In Atlanta, David Bellfield. He`s a New Orleans attorney evacuated to Atlanta. In Berkeley, California, Professor Harry Scheiber, an expert in martial law at the University of California. In Atlanta, defense attorney Renee Rockwell, a New Orleans lawyer. In Biloxi Mississippi, CNN correspondent Randi Kaye. At the New Orleans airport, CNN correspondent Ed last. And in Washington, CNN Pentagon correspondent Jamie McIntyre.

I want to first go to Ed Lavandera. Describe to me what you are seeing.

I think -- Ed Lavandera, can you hear me? Not hearing Ed, everybody. Ed is at the New Orleans airport. We`re going to hook up with him in a moment.

I want to go now to Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon. Jamie, I`m very disturbed by the fact that this widespread looting, the panic, bodies literally floating down the street, and we still have not fully mobilized help to this region.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, there`s a lot of sensitivity here at the Pentagon to the criticism that the U.S. military hasn`t moved fast enough or enough troops into the region to help deal with the situation. The Pentagon insists that the U.S. military has been totally responsive to all the requests they`ve gotten. In fact, most of the deployments of troops, moving troops, equipment, ships, have come even before there was any formal request. There are thousands of troops in the affected areas, and thousands more are coming in.

That said, I have to say that our reporters on the ground have reported that there are many areas where there are not enough authorities, either law enforcement or military authorities, to keep order. And the military says part of that is because of the priorities set by civilians to rescue people, to try to evacuate people, to move critically injured people out of hospitals. And that`s gotten a greater priority than, in some cases, restoring order and stopping looting.

GRACE: Jamie, today Charity Hospital, which is one of the biggest hospitals in Louisiana, was trying to be evacuated with helicopters. People started taking shots at the helicopters today -- taking shots at the hospital helicopters! And listen, Jamie, don`t get me wrong. I`m all for world relief, international relief. But if we can drop off food in other countries, if we can send our boys, our girls to Iraq -- we can`t get food into New Orleans?

MCINTYRE: Well, they are getting food in. In fact, they brought thousands of MREs in. But the big question is, Does it get to the people who need it when they need it? The FEMA director today, Michael Brown, admitted that there`s a lot of frustration because of the enormity of the task. And it is difficult getting things in on a time schedule. They insist, though, that this is the biggest mobilization they`ve ever had. There are a lot of challenges, but they are making every effort to try to get relief to people as soon as possible.

That`s not to say that this is a perfect response and that a lot of people aren`t angry and frustrated, and perhaps justifiably so. But the military, and particularly the civilian officials in charge of this relief operation -- again, it`s not a military operation, per se -- insist that the full force of the U.S. government is being employed, and they`re doing the best they can.

GRACE: You know what? Jamie, believe me, I know I sound angry and frustrated. It`s not at you.

MCINTYRE: No, I know.

GRACE: Look at this. This is what we see here in New York this morning. This is in America -- "Help us," people with cardboard on their feet, held on by rubber bands, all right?

I want to quickly go -- I think I`ve got CNN correspondent Ed Lavandera with me. Ed, can you hear me?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I`m back, Nancy. Sorry about that.

GRACE: Hi, friend. Tell me what you see.

LAVANDERA: You know, I don`t really know where to begin today, Nancy, to be quite honest with you. I`ve been reporting throughout the day on CNN about these countless trips that I`ve seen of helicopters dropping people off who have been evacuated out of the city. They`re coming from the Superdome. They`re coming from the convention center. They`re coming from streets. They`re coming from nursing homes, hospitals, what have you.

But let me tell you, that doesn`t even begin to come close to capturing the horror, quite frankly, that a lot of people are experiencing. Let me just pass along a few nuggets, individuals, because if you don`t hear what individual people are going through, it doesn`t hit home.

One woman we came across, who was basically being pulled off of a helicopter while she in labor. One woman -- came across a maternity ward, a group of women holding their newborn babies, five-pound, six-pound babies, one woman who didn`t have one. So I stopped to talk to her real quick. She had Polaroids of her baby, premature, and the baby was taken into an intensive care unit. She has no idea where her baby is as she was about to board a flight for Fort Worth. Another person who had gone through a kidney transplant in the last few days -- no medicine. They`re doing the best they can here to help treat that person.

Those individual ordeals that people are going through is playing out on the field. You hear all the helicopters. They`re going back and forth from the city to this airport to get people out of here and to get the hospital attention that they desperately need.

GRACE: Ed, what is happening at the Superdome? I`m hearing horrific reports.

LAVANDERA: Well, it`s a situation that has become -- I mean, you know, one person told me today that the words catastrophe and disaster don`t even come close to capturing and explaining what is going on with a lot of people. They`ve gone days without food, without water. They`re desperately trying to get out. And there`s just not enough help.

GRACE: It`s my understanding that there at the Superdome, that there are -- it`s covered in trash, human waste. Ellie (ph), was that where the lady had died in a wheelchair and they had covered her with a blanket, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe it was either there or the convention center.

GRACE: And just pushed the dead elderly lady up against the wall with a blanket over her. And they`ve got children and families there. Nothing to eat.

Let me quickly go to Randi Kaye, CNN correspondent, joining us from Biloxi. Randi, welcome. Bring us up to date, friend.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, the situation is still pretty grim here in Biloxi. It`s not exactly the looting and the danger and the high water that you`re seeing out of New Orleans, but it is certainly grim. We`re now up to confirmed number of dead, 185. That number is expected to rise. The aid is coming in very, very slowly here, the neighborhoods still not getting what they need.

We talked to a man who is diabetic, who is down to just a few pills for his medication, and he`s been living on potato chips for three days. We talked to a woman who lost her home, who`s staying with a brother-in- law, luckily, but the house is full of mud and she`s been sleeping on the front porch, and all she has is the clothes on her back, so...

It is, though, somewhat of a tense situation. I`m not far from where a pawn shop used to be. And earlier today -- the safe from that pawn shop that was holding all of the jewelry had washed out to sea during the storm, and a lot of the folks came here -- one woman in particular came here and was screaming at the pawn shop owner that she wants her jewelry and she wants money.

So tensions are high. People can`t get money. They can`t get money out of the money machines. They can`t get food. They can`t get water.

And what`s the new problem here today, Nancy, is that they`re beginning to complain about the smell of the dead. We`re not very far from an area here called the Point, and that was one of the hardest-hit areas, and people in the city are now complaining that they can smell the dead. The search and rescue and recovery teams need to get moving -- Nancy.

GRACE: Randi, you said that some relief, some aid is getting in. How is it getting in?

KAYE: FEMA is here. They`re on the ground. They said it is not unreasonable to expect -- to allow for five or six days after a hurricane like this for this aid to get here. That`s what a representative told us yesterday. But it is slowly making its way to the neighborhoods. We`ve seen the FEMA trucks. They have medical teams here. They have some ice and water stands set up where people can go.

But the problem is, Nancy, is that a lot of these people have lost their transportation in this storm. It`s not like they have cars and they can just pick up their car and go to these places to pick up food and water and ice that they need. So what`s frustrating mostly to these people is that these stands are set up, and they`re miles away from the people`s homes and they can`t get there. So they need to get moving and get into the neighborhoods and start bringing it to them.

GRACE: Randi Kaye, joining us from Biloxi.

Quickly back to Ed Lavandera there in New Orleans. Ed, again, I want to ask you, what can you tell me about conditions at the Superdome and the convention center, the two being used for, basically, American refugees?

LAVANDERA: Well, it`s been chaotic. The reports that we`ve heard coming out there -- from out of there today, there are thousands of people still there, looking desperately to get out from the city, that there aren`t many -- or any at all -- any kind of National Guard, any kind of police presence there to kind of help direct the situation a little bit.

It is a situation that -- the scene that you describe of the man pushed to the side with the cloth over the person in the wheelchair who had already died -- that was at the convention center, from the reports that I heard. I mean, it`s pretty much, I think, all you need to hear to understand just how chaotic things are there.

GRACE: I want to go to Congressman Bobby Jindal. He represents a district of New Orleans that is greatly affected by Katrina. Welcome, Congressman. Thank you for being with us. Tell me about your home.

REP. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: Well, we honestly don`t even know if our home is there. We were in an area that was hit hard. But I`ll be honest with you, property doesn`t matter. We`re very eager to be saving lives right now. We`ve got people that are still being rescued out of the water, being picked up off of roofs. I`ve spent hours and hours today and in previous days in shelters. I think the shock is wearing off. I think families are realizing that -- how much they`ve lost. Families are looking for missing loved ones.

I`ve been listening to the show, and I certainly -- I know there`s a lot of frustration on the ground, people wanting better security. There`s a lot of frustration from first responders that -- the violence hampering their ability to get in there. I don`t want it to overshadow the heroic efforts of these first responders. We`ve got some brave doctors, brave nurses, brave Guardsmen are going in there and picking up people literally out of the water even as late as today.

GRACE: Congressman, explain to me -- tell me, what do you see there? What are the conditions? What`s happening?

JINDAL: You know, the people that have been evacuated out of New Orleans, those that have left the Superdome and been brought to Baton Rouge, maybe even as far west as Texas -- certainly, they`ve been put in, compared to the Superdome, much better conditions. They`ve got air- conditioning, food, drinkable water, nowhere they can stay for the long- term, but at least a vast improvement over where they`ve just left.

For people that are still searching for lost ones in New Orleans, for people still in New Orleans -- we`ve talked with people that are still there in the hospitals, in the buildings. It`s a miserable situation. They`re obviously happy to be alive, but they need to be evacuated. We need to get everybody out of New Orleans as quickly as possible. It`s simply not sustainable.

They`re hand-ventilating patients. There are people that are running out of food, drinkable water. There are people, obviously, without electricity, without the basics of life. We`ve got to get them out of there as quickly as possible to shelters. Our neighboring states have been very generous. Texas, Arkansas are taking in thousands, tens of thousands of evacuees, or refugees is really the best way to describe us. And we`re very appreciative, but we need to get these people to safety.

GRACE: Congressman, what I don`t understand is if buses can come to the Superdome -- and from the reports I`ve been given, when the buses come to get the people, other people attack the bus, trying to get on the bus!

JINDAL: It is awful. We have heard stories of helicopters being shot at, of buses -- one case, a nursing home had a vehicle for their residents that was taken over. We`ve heard about looting. Again, there`s no excuse for this. We have to have zero tolerance. We need thousands of people on the ground. My understanding is the governor`s working the federal authorities to make that happen as we`re talking. There`s no excuse for this. I don`t want the actions of these few -- and let`s describe them blatantly. I mean, there`s no excuse for the lawbreakers and these looters.

GRACE: But Congressman! Congressman, if I were trying to get my family on the bus, you`re darn right I would attack that bus to save a member of my family! Are you kidding me?

JINDAL: No, I don`t...

GRACE: I don`t understand why there aren`t more buses, why there`s not more relief pouring in.

JINDAL: Excuse me. Two different points. One, I don`t excuse -- I don`t have a problem at all with people struggling to get food to feed their families. You`re exactly right. But what I have a problem with is the reports of people using weapons and other violence. There should nobody tolerance for that. I agree, if somebody`s starving, of course, they should be allowed to go and get the bread, the water, the food they need. Of course, you understand people`s desperation to be reunited with their families, to get to safety. I absolutely agree with that.

In terms of the pace of the evacuation, you`re right. We need to be doing everything possible to get these people out of New Orleans. It`s a miserable situation for them. And the priority is obviously been taking people out of the water when their life`s in danger. We need to quicken the pace of getting these people out of New Orleans to much more sustainable accommodation.

GRACE: Congressman, you don`t even know if your home is standing, do you.

JINDAL: No, we don`t, but you know, that`s -- that`s trivial compared to the lives of the people that are still out there. Property`s replaceable, lives are not.

GRACE: With me is Congressman Bobby Jindal. We are live throughout the Southland. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA COLLINS, NEW ORLEANS EVACUEE: They were shooting each other over the ATM machine that they were fighting over, you know, shooting each other over food. They`re breaking in houses and shooting. They had a guy in the apartments that we were in. He was trying to help several people out, even a girl who was in labor, and they had somebody shooting at him for his own boat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re sleeping at nighttime, you got a handful of canned goods, people trying to come in and get them, you know? I look at it this way. It`s like a battle zone, you know? You want to survive, you know?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I survived because of my roommate. I went through the ceiling, into the attic. If it wasn`t for him grabbing me, I would have drowned and died. He saved me twice, 73 years old!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please give us a call. Please, anybody knows anything about any of my family members, please help them. Help them get to a phone. Help them get to a computer. It doesn`t matter. Please help them. We love y`all, if y`all can hear us!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This is a desperate SOS from the mayor of New Orleans. "Right now, we are out of resources at the convention center and don`t anticipate enough buses. Currently, the convention center is unsanitary, unsafe, running out of supplies for 20,000 people. We are now allowing people to march up the Crescent City connection to the West Bank Expressway to find relief."

Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. Destruction and chaos across the Southland.

Very quickly, to Ed Lavandera. Ed, how are people getting out of city? I`ve heard of some people turning in cars -- renting cars just because they`ve still got gas in them.

LAVANDERA: Oh, exactly. I mean, this is what desperation, I think, will make you do to a certain degree. And that`s why it`s so unsafe, and we`ve basically been told to stay out of the city. We`ve come down here as best equipped as we possibly can, which makes us essentially roving targets. So we`re -- you know, we`ve got a few people in the city. For the most part, most of our people are kind of on the perimeter because -- for that reason. You can -- if you`re driving around with a car that has gas in it and might have some water in it, you`re a target.

GRACE: I want to quickly to go to David Bellfield, who left New Orleans with the shirt on his back. David, I`m going to come back to you after the commercial break, but seems to me that the hardest hit are the poor and the minorities that cannot get out of the city!

DAVID BELLFIELD, NEW ORLEANS EVACUEE: There`s no way for them to go. They have no money. They have no transportation. They relied on the city to move them, and now they`re stuck. There`s nobody coming to their aid. There`s no water, food, supplies. Sanitary conditions are deplorable. And now desperate people are turning to desperate measures, and that`s what you see in city of New Orleans right now. There`s no relief for them in sight, not to mention the fact that there are people stuck in hospitals that have not been moved, and I can`t understand that at all.

GRACE: David, how and when did you get out of New Orleans?

BELLFIELD: I left Sunday, took 20-some-odd hours to get to Atlanta, traveling with two cars of relatives. We got here thinking that my family was OK, only to find out that once we got here, my family -- my mother was somewhere on some highway trying to find...

GRACE: Oh, my Lord!

BELLFIELD: ... transportation because she was turned away from a hotel. My sister is at the hospital in New Orleans, still stuck in the hospital. And she was supposed to take care of my mother, but they wouldn`t allow my mother to check into the hotel, so she and my other sisters, who had never been on a highway before, traveled all through the night to find lodging. And they finally found a hotel that would allow them to sit in the lobby in Alexandria, and then finally, they gave her two rooms.

But she`s in safe condition. We have other relatives, Nancy, that are still unaccounted for. And one of the things that would help, if the shelters would establish a listing of people that they have there, so loved ones could go on line to find and search through the listing to see if loved ones have made it at least to shelter. There`s no way we can get in touch with them with telephones. So we need a listing, some kind of data base of the shelters, just the names.

GRACE: David, I`ve got to take us to break. David Bellfield has escaped New Orleans with the shirt on his back. He`s with us from Atlanta. We`ll all be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to go straight out to New Orleans attorney Renee Rockwell. Renee, your family -- Baton Rouge, correct? What conditions?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I called my brother, finally got through to my brother today. And you understand, there`s still no electricity in Baton Rouge, so they`re hearing only what they can hear, rumor. He had access to a friend who was listening to a police scanner. Apparently, there`s looting going on now in Baton Rouge. They had to evacuate the Baton Rouge courthouse.

You`ve got a situation where you`ve got people, Nancy, that are -- essentially have been caged in New Orleans -- no food, no water, nothing, no clothes, barely no air. I literally heard my brother racking his shotgun, and he`s sitting in his house waiting.

GRACE: And these people from New Orleans are being put on buses and just let out with nothing in Baton Rouge. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi there. I`m Sophia Choi with your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Well, the mayor of New Orleans has issued a desperate SOS. He says supplies have run out and that shelters have become unsanitary and unsafe. The head of FEMA says the agency has the resources it needs, but those resources have been slow in arriving.

Meanwhile, as night falls, the security situation is a big concern. One hundred National Guard troops are expected to arrive tonight. Hospital officials in New Orleans are pleading for help, mean time. They say they`re nearly out of food and power and have been forced to move patients to higher floors to escape looters.

Elsewhere along the Gulf Coast, emergency relief has begun to arrive. But at least 185 people are reported dead in Mississippi and about one million people still have no power.

President Bush says he will visit the region tomorrow, and Congress is rushing back to Washington to pass an emergency aid package.

That`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.

GRACE: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

I`ve just got a report from A.P. Associated Press crews driving around coastal Mississippi, picking up bodies left on sidewalks like garbage, depositing them in refrigerated mobile morgues, coroners conducting autopsies in parking lots, because the only available light is from the sun.

And still, full federal aid has not been achieved throughout the south land.

I want to go to Lieutenant Colonel Robert Horton with the Alabama National Guard. Explain to me about your people being deployed right now.

LT. COL. ROBERT HORTON, ALABAMA NATIONAL GUARD: Well, Governor Bob Riley here in Alabama is not only committed to helping the citizens of Alabama, but he`s also committed to helping our sister states in Mississippi and Louisiana.

Today, we deployed another 1,400 National Guardsmen to the state of Mississippi and also to Louisiana. And tomorrow, we`re expected to send another 400 personnel to provide security to Louisiana.

GRACE: How is it there in Alabama? Has there been crime, related reports?

HORTON: I believe there`s been some isolated looting in southwest Alabama, but our law enforcement officials have that under control. We have approximately 800 National Guardsmen in Mobile and Baldwin Counties, providing security and also supporting law enforcement officials. And we`re going to remain in Alabama supporting that operation until we`re no longer needed.

GRACE: Take a listen to this, Colonel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERNA BROWN, NEW ORLEANS EVACUEE: Everybody`s going absolutely insane, sad faces, people who need help, bread, water, clothes.

You know, water is up in everywhere, water is everywhere. Then you was talking about something about opening up the levee to the surrounding, you know, areas and everything. But I really and truly didn`t believe that would happen, you know? So now, this is what happened. Everything is just gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You wake up in the morning, you don`t think this will happen to you. Well, it has, all across the southland.

I want to go to Professor Harry Scheiber. He`s an expert in martial law. Professor, they`re calling it "emergency condition." How does that equate to martial law?

PROF. HARRY SCHEIBER, EXPERT IN MARTIAL LAW, UC BERKELEY: Well, they`re using emergency powers. It involves the suspension of a lot of the normal rules of procedure for law enforcement authorities. Martial law is different in the sense that civilian authority is given over to the military. And the military operates under a set of rules, under martial law that...

GRACE: OK, let me just interrupt quickly.

SCHEIBER: Sure.

GRACE: Professor, what`s the diff between military and National Guard?

SCHEIBER: Well, the National Guard are under the governors. And as one of the early speakers noted, it`s not a military operation now. The military is there to support civilian authority.

GRACE: OK, wait a minute. Now, the National Guard fighting for us, you know, our reserves have gone overseas. When you pull in the National Guard, they`re walking up and down the streets with guns to protect themselves. It looks awfully militaristic to me.

SCHEIBER: Well, of course. The National Guard fighting in Iraq are under -- they`ve been nationalized. They`re under the Army. The National Guard is currently operating under their respective governors.

GRACE: OK.

To Colonel Horton. Can you explain it, also?

HORTON: Well, the unique thing about the National Guard is that we have a dual mission. We`re the only service in the military with two missions. We not only have our federal mission, like we are involved in, in Afghanistan and Iraq today, but we also have our state mission. And part of our state mission is to support local law enforcement officials during state emergencies.

And really, I think using the term "martial law" is incorrect. When you have martial law, the military is in charge of law enforcement. We`re not in charged of law enforcement. We`re actually supporting civil law enforcement officials, and they have the lead in maintaining law and order. And we`re standing side-by-side, providing support.

GRACE: OK.

Let me go to Ed Lavandera there in New Orleans. Be honest. Do you really think anybody is in charge of law and order? I mean, when people are taking sniper shots at a helicopter trying to evacuate Charity Hospital, I`m not hearing law and order.

LAVANDERA: Oh, no, I think this is very far from law and order. And I think that`s why you heard the comments coming from the mayor, you know, that we`ve talked so much about today, the SOS.

I talked to one police officer here near the New Orleans airport area. Now, mind you, we`re about 10 miles away from there. And he was telling me, this one police officer, was telling me that a lot of people in the shelters in this area were starting to get antsy. This guy sounded completely overwhelmed, and even he, as a police officer, said that they weren`t equipped to handle this.

GRACE: I want to go back to Jamie McIntyre joining us from the Pentagon.

Jamie, it`s my understanding that there`s a military force called the Joint Task Force Katrina -- it involves over 30,000 people -- headed toward the southland. Tell me about it.

MCINTYRE: Well, Joint Task Force Katrina is the operation that the military has set up to provide assistance to the civilian authorities who are in charge. And that 30,000 figure counts all of the National Guard troops in all of the affected states that are going to be participating.

They said you start counting the active-duty troops that are also supporting people on the ships, some of the active-duty people flying helicopters, the total`s going to come up to about 50,000 by next week.

And one point, Nancy, about those military police who are going to be coming into Louisiana -- we`re told, by the way, you`re going to see a lot of them tomorrow. That might be too late for some people, but we`re told, by this time tomorrow, you`ll see a lot of them on the street.

They`re police officers. They`re military police officers. They`re in the Guard. Often, they`re police officers in their civilian life, as well. They`re trained as police officers. They know about law enforcement. They have a specific mission to work with the local law enforcement, and they`re going to be bringing in, over the next three days, a force equal to...

GRACE: Going? Whoa, whoa, did I hear you say "going to"? "Going to"?

MCINTYRE: Well, they`re already -- right now, in Louisiana, there`s about 28,000 military police. They`re going to be 14,000 more in -- 1,400, sorry -- 1,400 more tomorrow, which is about the size of the New Orleans police force, and then another 1,400 the next day, and another 1,400 the next day.

So they will, essentially, quadruple the size of the New Orleans police force in a matter of days. Again, the debate is, why didn`t it happen yesterday? But that`s a separate issue.

GRACE: Jamie, I got another question for you. And believe me, my anger is not directed towards you. You`re just the messenger.

MCINTYRE: I don`t take this personally.

GRACE: I`m hearing 60,000 meals, ready-to-eat meals, they`re called MREs. Now, this is an A.P. from today, OK, just a few moments ago, are going to be shipped. Now, listen, "are going to be shipped." This is Thursday. Our own people are...

MCINTYRE: They have delivered some of those MREs already to people. In fact, thousands have been delivered. Some were even taken to the Superdome, obviously not enough.

The civilian officials, the FEMA officials, say that they didn`t get the alert from the people in New Orleans that they were out of food at the Superdome until this morning. They planned to have a complete shipment of food there by tonight. I don`t know if it made it. But they say they`re making every effort to be responsive.

GRACE: Oh, you know, it sounds to me, Jamie, like they didn`t get an engraved invitation asking for some ready-to-eats. I mean, we can see, Jamie, we can see what`s happening. I mean, the mayor is issuing an SOS, for Pete`s sake.

Very quickly to Renee Rockwell. I know this is way off point, but I thought about this early this morning. What about the zoo? You know, Renee, the waters coming up out of the bayou. You got snakes. There was a report today that there was a shark swimming in the waters in town.

ROCKWELL: And what about the alligators, Nancy? But can we talk about the animals that are caged in the Superdome and the convention? You can`t put people -- these are not all a bunch of criminals. These are poor, hungry, tired, desperate people.

These are not all criminals. I want to know one thing. And my information is that the police radios are not even working. They can`t even communicate with each other.

This is probably to Mr. Bellfield, but he`ll tell you a story about a bunch of police officers that are gathering together trying to decide what to do, meeting, and going off and policing on their own.

Where`s the chief of police? Where`s the chief of police of New Orleans? Where is he? We haven`t seen him, not once.

GRACE: Very quickly, we`ll all be right back.

To "Trial Tracking." Hearing today for repeat offender Joseph P. Smith, accused of the 2004 sex, battery and murder of 11-year-old Florida girl Carlie Brucia. Documents reveal Smith told a waitress he kidnapped and killed Brucia. The waitress also led police to Carlie`s body, a few miles from the car wash where her kidnap was caught on video. Smith pled not guilty.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: With the death toll rising across the southland, one of the first victims seems to be law and order.

Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace.

I want to go to the Pentagon and Jamie McIntyre. So, Jamie, has Congress come back from their vaca?

MCINTYRE: Not sure. I`m not sure they`re back yet. Unfortunately, that`s across the river from this building, and I haven`t kept too close tabs on that. I know they`re supposed to be back tonight, but I haven`t checked on it.

GRACE: And how long will it take them to agree on aid to the hurricane victims?

MCINTYRE: Oh, I think -- you know, obviously, this is a kind of issue that`s going to have wide bipartisan support. I think a bigger question is, how much federal aid is going to go to help rebuild New Orleans and, particularly, the levee system and some of the very expensive projects that environmentalists and scientists believe would be necessary to protect New Orleans from this kind of thing in the future? That`s a very costly public works project, and I think you`re going to see some debate about that.

GRACE: Yes, I understand that there are certain representatives and senators who have said New Orleans isn`t worth rebuilding. Right, Ellie?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Said it doesn`t make sense to rebuild.

GRACE: Doesn`t make sense to rebuild New Orleans. I wonder if they`d say that about Washington.

Jamie McIntyre, thank you, friend.

And very quickly, to Ed Lavandera. Ed, night is falling. What does that mean for you and for your surroundings?

LAVANDERA: Well, for our immediate surroundings, we`re basically stuck here at the New Orleans airport. It is way too dangerous for us to go -- we`re past the security checkpoints along the interstates that bring you into New Orleans. There`s really no point in going back to Baton Rouge at this point. And so we`re basically here.

GRACE: Ed, where are you staying tonight?

LAVANDERA: Where am I sleeping?

GRACE: Yes.

LAVANDERA: I`ve got a tent. I`ve got a tent that we, a photographer and I, have bought on the way in, and we`ve set it up here. There`s another swarm of my colleagues who have arrived here.

I`ve been here since early Tuesday morning, with just one other photographer. Just a few hours ago about -- it was a welcome sight -- about 15, 20 colleagues of mine have rolled up here with -- we`ve got an RV and a space that we`ve been able to work out of here with the airport folks.

So a lot of people of our colleagues will be sleeping in their cars tonight. I`ll be sleeping in a tent. And some other colleagues will be sleeping in the RV.

But I`d be remiss to say that whatever we`re going through compares nothing with the people that we`ve seen come through here today. I need to say that.

GRACE: Ed Lavandera, thank you, friend.

I`m going to quickly take you to breaking news out of Aruba. Chief suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, the Alabama girl, is set to be released from jail.

Tonight, in Aruba, Twitty family attorney Helen LeJuez. Jossy Mansur is back with us, from "Diario" newspaper. In Houston, Natalee`s uncle, Paul Reynolds. In New York, defense attorney Jason Oshins and psychotherapist Caryn Stark.

Also with us, CNN correspondent Susan Candiotti. Susan, is it true?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is true. The judge says that Joran Van Der Sloot gets to go home on Saturday. The judge agreed to free him, despite motions by prosecutors to keep the teenager behind bars for another 60 days as a suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway, despite the fact that prosecutors presented 300 pages of documents.

Obviously, the judge didn`t buy it. The defense arguing there was no evidence to tie the young man to the disappearance and to hold him any longer. But the judge technically agreed to keep him in pretrial detention for another 30 days, but then turned around and suspended that order, granting the defense motion to let him go home.

However, the judge set conditions. He said that Van Der Sloot must remain available to the ongoing investigation, meaning they can call him in for questioning at any time.

GRACE: Right.

CANDIOTTI: He cannot go to college, as he had planned, in Florida, where he was accepted. And the defense attorney, at this time, however, said he did not want to reveal what the other special conditions were.

GRACE: OK.

CANDIOTTI: However, I would think, Nancy, it`s unlikely he`ll be able to stray far from Aruba.

GRACE: Helen LeJuez, Twitty family attorney, response from Natalee`s family?

HELEN LEJUEZ, TWITTY FAMILY ATTORNEY: I cannot hear you.

GRACE: Is there a response from Natalee`s family, Helen?

LEJUEZ: Yes. They are very, very upset and very sad tonight.

GRACE: To Jossy Mansur, welcome back, Jossy. We missed you. I`m glad to see you.

Jossy, I`m stunned. I am stunned.

LEJUEZ: By this news, so am I, and so are many people. I mean, I understand that he did get an extension of 30 days, and the 30 days was suspended. The Satish lawyer told us that Satish will get another eight days. And from Deepak, we don`t know anything yet.

Freddy, the other guy, that he wants to be called Zedan, instead of Arambatzis, is still in jail and got another eight days, also. But it is stunning.

GRACE: To Jason Oshins, did you believe this day would come?

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know what, Nancy? It was a little bit telling that it would. I mean, the Kalpoes were released initially. And then the prosecutors went after them again on some different charges.

So, Nancy, there`s no body. There`s no physical evidence. I mean, surely, you know, as a prosecutor, you need some aids to assist you in a prosecution. Here, they can hold them before charging, but there`s nothing to work with. And, obviously, the judge agreed that the mound of evidence didn`t amount to enough.

GRACE: Paul Reynolds, you`re Natalee`s uncle. You must be stunned tonight.

PAUL REYNOLDS, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S UNCLE: Well, Nancy, obviously, we`re very disappointed. You know, we cannot understand how there could be such a lack of evidence that would release him. You know, but we`re not giving up. You know, the Kalpoe brothers are still there.

We certainly think lesser charges need to be considered against them. And they need to understand that these -- there are charges that are available against them, which would give them incentive to give us some information as to what happened that night.

GRACE: Very quickly, everyone, to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin."

FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, Jason Derek Brown, wanted in connection with the 2004 murder and robbery in Phoenix of 25-year-old Robert Keith Palomares, an armored guard outside a movie theater.

Brown, 36, 5`10", 175 pounds, blond hair, green eyes. If you have info on Jason Derek Brown, call the FBI, 602-279-5511.

Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of our live trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV`s "Closing Arguments." Please stay with us, as we remember U.S. Army Major Gregory Fester, 41, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back. Breaking news out of Aruba.

The chief suspect in the case of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway`s disappearance is set to be released on Saturday, Joran Van Der Sloot.

To psychotherapist Caryn Stark. Caryn, a lot of people are speculating that somehow this will make the Kalpoe brothers talk. Are they kidding? They`ll think they`re next in line to be released.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I would agree with you, Nancy. I believe that they`re not going to talk. No one`s talked yet. And as a result, we see that he may be leaving on Saturday and never accused. So I think the Kalpoe brothers are wise to not say anything. And eventually, they may be released as well.

GRACE: Is there a way, Jason, for Van Der Sloot to be charged yet?

OSHINS: Sure, he can be charged, just like the Kalpoe brothers. They can re-arrest him on other charges. And certainly, the whole process could go and start again, just as it has with them.

GRACE: And to Jossy Mansur, Jossy, there`s been a lot of talk that, well, Van Der Sloot is a party boy. He`ll go out, and drink, and yak. You know what? I wouldn`t count on that to make a murder case.

MANSUR: I wouldn`t, either, because I don`t think he`s going to talk. I think he`s going to be extra careful as to what he does and what he says. His father will make sure of that.

GRACE: Jossy, what`s the response there in Aruba to this?

MANSUR: You know, so far, I don`t think too many people know about this yet, because it was just something that came out in the afternoon. And I don`t think the news has gotten out yet.

GRACE: Caryn Stark, it`s already been bad enough on the family to lose Natalee, but now this.

STARK: Think about it, Nancy. Take the fact that they`ve lost their daughter, the debilitation. It will never be ending. And at this point, they have absolutely no resolve. So the loss is exacerbated by the fact that they may never, ever know what happened to her or who did it. So there`s nothing worse than that.

GRACE: Repeat, breaking news out of Aruba. The chief suspect, Joran Van Der Sloot, set to be released on Saturday.

I want to thank all of my guests that are with me tonight. But my biggest thank you is to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your homes.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Our prayers and our hearts in the southland. See you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END