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American Morning

Health Concerns Over Contaminated Water

Aired September 07, 2005 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: A view there of Jackson Square in the French Quarter in New Orleans. Welcome back, everybody.
I want to introduce you to Evelyn Brown. She was at her job as a janitor in the Times-Picayune Building when the storm struck, and the water started rolling in. At that point, they decided to evacuate everybody, put you in the trucks and take you out of town.

EVELYN BROWN, EVACUEE: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: Your husband, meanwhile, had evacuated the day before. So he's got your three kids. You were evacuated out of the Times-Picayune Building with your son.

BROWN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: You come here, and you know they're fine. They have no idea what happened to you.

BROWN: No, they don't.

S. O'BRIEN: Tell me what it's like, first of all, to be in a shelter and in this situation where you're really worried about the other members of your family.

BROWN: Well, when I first came in, I felt kind -- you know, I was really upset and crying. And they had one of the Red Cross representatives came to me and asked me what was wrong. And I told him what was wrong. And he helped me a whole lot. And every day, he would come to me with different information. And we would put our thoughts together, and we put good thoughts together. And he helped me to go a long ways to find my kids. And...

S. O'BRIEN: Obviously, you're one of the 4,500 people who have been here. What's it like to know that this is not going to be a week or two weeks or three weeks? This is going to be a long time before you're able to get back to your home. How tough is that?

BROWN: It's real hard. It's hard right now. Then especially the fact I don't have my other kids, so I don't have a (INAUDIBLE) of what I'm going to do.

S. O'BRIEN: You had some good news, though, yesterday.

BROWN: Yesterday. It was wonderful news that my kids are all right. They're still in the area. They never did evacuate.

S. O'BRIEN: Out of Metairie. So, they're fine.

BROWN: They are great.

S. O'BRIEN: And more importantly, they know you're fine.

BROWN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: But you haven't had a chance to talk face-to-face. Why not?

BROWN: No.

S. O'BRIEN: Or even phone-to-phone. Why not?

BROWN: No, because the lines are staying busy, and I can't get through. But my daughter did happen to get through and called a friend of mine, and she let me know they were all right. They still was in Metairie, and they'll be evacuated.

S. O'BRIEN: What's your plan now?

BROWN: To get to them as soon as possible. Get to them soon.

S. O'BRIEN: So you will be leaving here soon?

BROWN: Whenever they bring them to me. I don't know how long I'm going to be here, because I haven't started doing nothing yet.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, what we're going to try to do...

BROWN: I haven't made a move or nothing.

S. O'BRIEN: ... is see if we can hook up -- you know where your family is, in Metairie.

BROWN: Yes, I do.

S. O'BRIEN: We'll see if we can hook up to them.

BROWN: OK, that would be great.

S. O'BRIEN: At least that way you would get to talk to them.

BROWN: Yes.

S. O'BRIEN: And they can talk to you if that's possible to arrange.

BROWN: OK. That's good.

S. O'BRIEN: How are you doing psychologically? I mean...

BROWN: At first, I was down. And now just knowing they're OK, they're all right, is building me back up. I'm getting my strength back. I'm doing a little more. I'm sleeping better. I'm eating better and everything. S. O'BRIEN: So a little bit of hope.

BROWN: It's a real stress gone.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, we're glad to hear that. Evelyn Brown, good luck to you.

BROWN: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: We hope that whatever and however it ends up or where you end up -- do you want to stay in Louisiana? Do you want to...

BROWN: I don't think I want to go back.

S. O'BRIEN: To New Orleans?

BROWN: No.

S. O'BRIEN: So where would you like to end up?

BROWN: I'm not sure yet, because I haven't seen my kids and reached them or talked to them to think about that. I'm thinking about getting them.

S. O'BRIEN: All right.

BROWN: That's what I'm most concentrating...

S. O'BRIEN: The priority at first, right?

BROWN: Yes, that's first.

S. O'BRIEN: Evelyn Brown, thank you for talking to me. .

BROWN: OK, thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: We really appreciate it -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you, Soledad.

Public health officials are becoming increasingly concerned about the putrid water still covering 60 percent of the city of New Orleans now. Anyone exposed to the water is being urged to get some vaccinations.

Dr Julie Gerberding is director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. She joins us from Washington this morning.

Dr. Gerberding, good to have you with us.

DR. JULIE GERBERDING, CENTERS FOR DISEASE CONTROL: Good morning.

M. O'BRIEN: What do we know about what's in that water?

GERBERDING: Well, right now, we know for sure that there is sewerage in the water, and there are a lot of bacteria that can cause the kind of common infections that are associated with diarrhea. Beyond that, the testing is still in progress. So, we'll be looking for other infectious agents. We'll be looking for toxins and chemicals. And we'll really be doing everything we can to understand the threat.

In the meantime, people have to stay out of the water. And most importantly, don't drink the water.

M. O'BRIEN: Of course, that's easier said than done. We have 10,000 people still on their porches, in their homes there. Obviously, they are exposed to all of this water. What can be done for them?

GERBERDING: Well, you know, the mayor ordered an evacuation for a very good reason. It's simply not safe to be in the city right now. The water is one of the hazards of concern. And people really do need to leave. It is not going to be possible to restore fresh water for many days. And it's just not safe to be there.

M. O'BRIEN: Actually, I've read somewhere it could be years before there is safe drinking water in New Orleans.

GERBERDING: Well, we're not going to speculate about the timeframe here, because this is just early in the process. Secretary Leavitt has assembled a team of people from CDC and EPA and all of the other organizations that know about water quality. And we're working hard right now on the scene to understand the threats. But until the water is pumped out and the situation is cleaned up, it's just simply not a place for people to be.

M. O'BRIEN: A lot of focus and concern on the shelters, because people have been exposed to this water are congregating and meeting there. And there is a possibility of further spread of disease. What is the CDC doing about that?

GERBERDING: Well, yesterday, I was in Mississippi, and I visited some shelters there, as well as shelters across the South in our recent visit with Secretary Leavitt. And I've got to tell you that there is enormous heroism going on out there. People in these shelters are stepping right up to plate. They're focusing on prevention of disease transmission. They've got hand washing facilities that rivals those in most hospitals. And even the people who are in the shelters are being given the hand hygiene products and a lot of instruction about staying safe. So vaccinations are in progress.

M. O'BRIEN: But what is the...

GERBERDING: Hygiene is going on. And we're doing everything we can.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm sorry. What is the CDC doing? What is the CDC doing?

GERBERDING: Well, we have 24 teams of public health-trained people spread out throughout the South. And they're working on assessing the threats, helping with the education, identifying what can be done to prevent the threats, and doing everything we can to support the many health care workers who are there, focusing on the care of these evacuees.

M. O'BRIEN: And so, all this possibility then of water being pumped in to, you know, Lake Pontchartrain, and the possibility of a long-term environmental impact, do you care to talk about that? Is this something that's going to be with us for a long time to come?

GERBERDING: Well, again, this is very early in the process, and we have a lot to learn about what's actually going on in the city. The important thing is to get the water out of the city, and to then do what's necessary to fix the sewer system, fix the water system, and try everything we can to get the city back into working order.

M. O'BRIEN: How many people have become sick as a result of the water? Do we have any idea?

GERBERDING: You know, right now we have very limited reports of any diseases. Yesterday, there was some reports of an infection called Vibrio vulnificus that's associated with water. This is not cholera. It's not transmitted from person-to-person. It's just something we see from time to time in that region. We have no evidence of a widespread outbreak.

But when water is contaminated with sewage, there is always the possibility of a threat, and that's why it's just so important that people avoid the water and not drink it.

M. O'BRIEN: Are you surprised there haven't been more outbreaks, more cases?

GERBERDING: Well, I'm not surprised. But, again, we're early in the process. And we do have to stay on top of this. We're working hard to detect things as they emerge. And particularly in these shelters, we're working very hard to contain and prevent any additional spread. So, there's a lot of work ahead of us until these people get home.

M. O'BRIEN: Dr. Julie Gerberding is with the Centers for Disease Control. Thanks very much.

GERBERDING: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's check some headlines now. Carol Costello with that.

Good morning -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Miles. Good morning to all of you.

"Now in the News."

Early morning attacks in Iraq have killed at least four Americans and wounded three others.

In Basra, a roadside bomb struck part of a convoy carrying U.S. diplomats from the consulate in Basra. Four private security contractors were killed in that attack.

Further north in Baghdad, an improvised explosive device hit a U.S. Army Humvee, wounding at least three soldiers.

President Bush is among those set to speak at Chief Justice William Rehnquist's funeral today. The coffin will remain on public view at the Supreme Court until noon Eastern Time. It will then be transferred to St. Matthews Cathedral in Washington for services. Justice Sandra Day O'Connor and members of Rehnquist's family will also offer eulogies.

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger is being asked to decide the issue of same-sex marriage in California. State lawmakers approved same-sex marriages Tuesday, becoming the first legislature to do so. The bill defines marriage as between two persons rather than a man and a woman. Schwarzenegger is expected to veto the legislation, although in the past he has said either the courts or the voters should decide the issue.

And parts of Florida are under a tropical storm warning today. The National Hurricane Center says Tropical Storm Ophelia is about 100 miles east of Cape Canaveral, Florida. Ophelia could bring up to eight inches of rain in some areas. Don't even like to talk about this, Chad, but we must.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, three college students sneak into New Orleans. Sneak in and save the lives of seven people. They'll tell us how they did it next on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Live pictures now of Jackson Square, heart of the French Quarter. That's the St. Louis Cathedral, and, as you can see, not a lot of water there. If you'll recall, the French Quarter generally is high ground for the city of New Orleans, and thus has been spared some of the flooding you've seen elsewhere.

We should remind you 60 percent of that city remains under water this morning, even as the Corps of Engineers begins to pump out water there.

As millions watched the horror unfold in New Orleans, our next guests took some immediate action. They got in a car, and they drove from North Carolina straight to Louisiana. They managed to get into the heart of the city and rescue seven people.

David Hunkla (ph), Sonny Byrd, Hans Buder are all sophomores at Duke University. They're back at school now, and they join us from Durham.

Gentleman, good to have you all with us.

SONNY BYRD, RESCUED KATRINA VICTIMS: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning.

HANS BUDER, RESCUED KATRINA VICTIMS: It's good to be here.

M. O'BRIEN: Let's begin with you, Hans. How did you all get the idea?

BUDER: We were watching CNN at about 3:00 p.m. on Thursday, and there was footage coming in from the Convention Center and the stories from there. It sounded like a perfect hell on earth. And nothing seemed to be getting done. So, I called my roommate, Sonny, and he said, "I'll be there in five minutes."

M. O'BRIEN: And that was it, and off you went.

BUDER: That was it.

M. O'BRIEN: Off you went.

BUDER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: It's the kind of thing only college students would do. Just get in the car, go to New Orleans in the middle of a national catastrophe. Once you got there -- David, why don't you pick it up? What happened once you go there? How did you get to the Convention Center?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, initially, we actually couldn't get into the city at all. We went to road after road after road. At every one of them, they told us that, no, I'm sorry, the city is completely closed off, or the road is severely damaged or various other elusory answers. And we ended up doing volunteer work for a while in Baton Rouge, until Sonny had the bright idea of just picking up a press pass and just walking over and going, "Can we do anything with this?" So...

M. O'BRIEN: So, Sonny, you have a little larceny in your heart.

SONNY BYRD, RESCUED KATRINA VICTIMS: I do, but only when it comes to saving people.

M. O'BRIEN: So the end justifies the means. Basically, you scanned in some credentials from news organizations, right?

BYRD: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) Photo Shop.

M. O'BRIEN: A little Photo Shop will get you a long way. So, off you go to the National Guard checkpoint. You brandish your credentials. I say credentials like this. And the next thing you know you're there. How long did it take you to get to the Convention Center? BYRD: Past the National Guard blockade, it probably took us about 15 to 20 minutes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was nothing. It was basically a direct drive.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Now here's the part where people at home are going to be scratching their heads and say, wait a minute, three guys from college, they drive in with a couple of credentials, and it takes them only 20 minutes to get from the checkpoint to the Convention Center. How is it people were suffering for so long there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's right, and that's our question. Why were people stranded there for four or five days with no food and water? You know, there were murders and beatings in that place. And we heard about it on Thursday, about three days after. We drove in, and we have never been to New Orleans. And we made it in, in 20 minutes in a Hyundai Elantra, completely over land.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No difficulty at all. We can't figure it out.

M. O'BRIEN: It makes it very difficult for me to understand the explanation. The federal officials have said they had a hard time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could have driven buses en masse to the front of the Convention Center and unloaded those people two days after that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And while we were there we saw over 150 buses that were either leaving the city or just sitting parked completely empty outside. Bus after bus.

M. O'BRIEN: Why is that? Did you ever ask? Did you get any -- is this some of the pictures you took maybe as you drove in?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: There you see the buses going the other way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: Many of those buses you say were empty?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were all empty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every single bus, we saw...

M. O'BRIEN: I would love an explanation for that one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We would too. BRUDER: That's why we're here. And we would ask people at the lower levels, and they would scratch their heads. They were getting the bureaucratic red tape, and it was just...

BYRD: It was incredible. They would say something like they had been flying the buses in. You know, they're flying into the airport, the fact of which we still don't quite understand the logic of flying in something that needs to drive out.

BRUDER: They helicoptered everybody out of the Convention Center when we drove in.

M. O'BRIEN: You were in what was described as a pretty dangerous place. Were you concerned about your security? Did you ever at any point feel as if you had made a mistake in doing what you did?

BRUDER: Well, we brought some little knifes that that we bought at Wal-Mart, but we were kind of concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mistake is probably a bad word. I mean, there were definitely moments where each of us individually were very nervous. But we're all very different people and luckily any time that something set one of us off, the other two were there to calm the person down and say, no, we've got to keep going. We've gotten this far, we can't turn back.

M. O'BRIEN: Final thought I've got to ask you, though. It's great what you did. Don't get me wrong. But if everybody did this, there would be utter chaos. Have you thought much about that? Do you have any misgivings about what you did?

BYRD: Well, we think there could have been a controlled fashion by which people, civilian vehicles could have been led in the same path we took, and just made a direct U-turn to pick up evacuees and come straight back. And we do feel guilty about forging press passes and the fraudulence we had to commit, but that was what was necessary to get help to those people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there had been organization going on either to get buses or even police officials or, you know, military vehicles, anything along the lines, we would not have felt the need to do what we did. But there was no -- like, there was no organization at all.

BUDER: If you're going to seal off the city, the onus is on you to get the people out.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. All right, thank you, gentlemen.

BYRD: Thank you.

BUDER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Sonny Byrd, Hans Buder, future heads of FEMA. Who knows? Maybe we should put them in charge right now. Thanks very much for your time.

BYRD: Thank you.

BUDER: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, Katrina's impact on flood insurance rates nationwide. We'll take a look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

Many of the folks who were evacuated after Hurricane Katrina will come to shelters like this one. But many people have refused to leave. In fact, they're staying behind, insisting that they are staying behind.

We heard from the New Orleans mayor this morning that those folks who are staying behind, they have to go. They have to get out.

But this morning, we're getting word that, in fact, the general who is in charge of this operation says that's not going to happen. They're not going to kick people out or drag people out.

Let's get right to Barbara Starr. She joins us by phone from Camp Shelby in New Orleans.

Barbara, good morning to you. You know, there was a sense of how logistically was the mayor going to be able to take people out. Were rescuers going to be handcuffing people? How was it going to work?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's pretty typical to say at the moment. We're here at Camp Shelby, again, with General Russel Honore. And what his position is about all of this is that that is going to indeed be a law enforcement issue. The point he is making this morning is that the United States military will not participate in forcible removal of Americans from their homes; that that is not the job of the U.S. military. That be will a law enforcement problem.

And that if they do come across people in New Orleans, soldiers come across people that need food and water, they will get food and water from the United States military. The military is simply not going to participate, according to General Honore, in either pulling Americans out of their homes or starving them out of their homes. That's not going to be what they're going to do.

What they are going to do is work with local officials, however, in the very difficult job of recovering the dead. The plan now is to divide the city into grids, establish teams, which include active-duty military, National Guard, coroner-type teams, mortuary-type teams, and move through the city and try and identify where there may be remains and pull them out. And then they will make a second sweep through the city once the water recedes and make sure that they have done everything they can to recover all of those who may have perished -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Barbara, thanks.

So, U.S. troops will not be taking part in pulling Americans out from their homes. The New Orleans mayor, though, is saying that, in fact, police will be enforcing those mandatory evacuations from New Orleans -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks very much, Soledad.

After paying out billions of dollars in claims for Katrina victims, what happens to anyone who wants flood insurance? Not just there. Anywhere.

Andy Serwer is "Minding Your Business."

And this takes a little explaining, because basically flood insurance is a federal program.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: That's right, Miles, it is. And no private insurance company offers flood insurance. Or let me just correct that. Generally, flood insurance is not available from private insurance companies.

This is a federal program. It's called the National Insurance Flood Program, and it's a part of FEMA. And the premiums are actually fairly inexpensive, $400 annually for, say, $100,000 worth of coverage; 4.6 million policies, and that's about $2 billion of premiums. In other words, $2 billion coming into the federal government.

The payout from Katrina is going to exceed that by far. It's going to be over $3 billion.

But, you know, as you were suggesting, Miles, it's controversial. Why doesn't the private sector offer flood insurance? Because it's probably assuming that it cannot offer affordable flood insurance. In other words, it would have to charge far more than the private government does to make it viable business.

Therefore, the federal government -- in other words, us, the taxpayer -- is subsidizing all of this flood insurance for all of these people building homes in flood plains. No question, Miles, that flood insurance rates are going to go up after this disaster. And there's going to be a big debate, I would suspect, on Capitol Hill. Is this program even necessary? Should it be abolished? If the policies can't be written to meet market costs, then why should the federal government step in? In other words, people from Michigan and Ohio are basically subsidizing people who are living on the beach in million-dollar homes in some cases?

M. O'BRIEN: Right. I mean, you know, we're not talking about necessarily people in New Orleans who are so unfortunate now. We're talking about these multimillion-dollar palaces, which we're all basically insuring.

SERWER: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: Which is, you know, I don't know if that's what we want to be doing.

SERWER: Yes. And it's going to be something that will be hashed out, I'm sure.

M. O'BRIEN: I should say so. Thank you very much, Andy Serwer.

SERWER: You're welcome.

M. O'BRIEN: We'll see you in a bit.

Still to come, who is to blame for the slow response to Katrina's aftermath? The debate is heating up on Capitol Hill. We'll look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

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