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American Morning

Forced Evacuations?; 201 Confirmed Deaths in Mississippi

Aired September 08, 2005 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: To the southeast of downtown New Orleans, the water is starting to recede in St. Bernard parish, one of the areas worst hit by the flooding. Search teams are recovering bodies. They're also still bringing people out alive. Some people have spent the last week struggling to survive, waiting to be rescued. Others, whose homes were not so badly damaged, well, they say they want to stay right where they are.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROSE ADAMS, CHALMETTE, LOUISIANA: I want to die in my own house. If I have to die -- I'm old, and I'm ready to go. I'm not afraid of death. If I can stay there and die in the same house where my husband died, which we bought together and lived together for a number of years, I'd be happy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Well, if you've been asking yourself the question, why would people want to stay, there you have an answer right there. And the prospect of the authorities forcibly removing somebody like that, well, as one of the people in New Orleans put it the other day, talk about a PR nightmare.

Let's go to Soledad with more on that.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, Miles. I think you're exactly right. And the person to put that question to is really our next guest. Eddie Compass is the police of chief.

It's nice to see you. You've cleaned up a lot over the last couple of days. The last time we talked to you, you hadn't slept, you hadn't showered, because you've been really, really busy. Forced evacuations. Explain to me specifically how it's going to work. The woman we just heard from on the air, 89 years old.

SUPT. EDDIE COMPASS, NEW ORLEANS POLICE: Right.

S. O'BRIEN: You would forcibly remove her from her home?

COMPASS: Well, this is what we're doing right now. We still have people who want to voluntary evacuate. So, we're utilizing our resources to get rid of these people first, to evacuate these people first. Then once all of the voluntary evacuations are completed, we're going to do a forced evacuation.

I'll make it analogous to something that everyone can really understand. When you bring your child to the pediatrician to get a shot, it's a very painful thing to do to see your child in that much pain. I have four kids and one on the way. But you know if your child does not get that shot, he could die.

S. O'BRIEN: OK. But when my child gets a shot, I pin her down sometimes. And even if she's crying, I hold her tight and make her do it. Are you saying you're going to cuff people and take the out? You're going to drag them out?

COMPASS: We're going to use the minimal amount of force. Each situation will be different. You know, I can't give you a definitive answer on how we're going to deal with the entire situation.

One thing is we're the greatest mover of large crowds. We handle Mardi Gras each year. This police department is trained for this type of operation. I've met with my commanders. We're not going to be forceful to the point where we're going to be disrespectful. We're going to talk to people. We're going to get people in who are counselors to talk to people. Because you've got to understand, a lot of people have been traumatized. We understand the human element. We're not going to do this without any sensitivity. But they have to understand, this water is polluted. It's dangerous. They could die.

S. O'BRIEN: How many people do you think we're talking about? I mean, I've heard estimates from 1,000 up to 15,000 people that need to be removed.

COMPASS: Well, we won't really know until we actually start our searches. What we've done we've divided the city into grids. And the same pattern that we use to do our search and rescue for people during a hurricane, we're going to use that same method. It's very organized so that you can check the entire city. And I think that way we can do it in a manner that is really efficient, expedient, and uses our manpower to its optimum efficiency.

S. O'BRIEN: The last time we spoke, we talked about accounting for your officers. How many officers remain unaccounted for now?

COMPASS: We have about 500 that remain unaccounted for. You know, some of them have quit. Some of them, hopefully not, but may have been killed in the storm. You know, some of them, you know, may be around, and we don't know exactly where they're at. They're working with other divisions, because...

S. O'BRIEN: What percentage would you guess quit of that 500?

COMPASS: Well, maybe -- I can't really guesstimate, because you know, I don't really play with numbers. You never know. But, again, the really story is the 1,200 that we have, 1,200 that stayed. These are the true heroes. I mean, you have police officers like Ernie Dema (ph). His wife is an invalid. And he was in that Superdome (INAUDIBLE) for six days with 30,000 people in the worst of conditions. You have a police officer, Michael Husy (ph), who has 15 children. His son is a police office. Him and his son stood strong the entire time. And you have Mike Conn (ph). His wife has a small child. She's eight months pregnant. He didn't move. S. O'BRIEN: Now you, you have an eight-and-a-half month pregnant wife as well.

COMPASS: Yes, and I have a 3-year-old, and I have three other kids. So, I'm on my fifth kid. You know, so it's like, you know, I want to talk about -- I'm not really a hero. The men and women of this police department are heroes. And that's what I really want to focus on. You know, we're getting so much attention about the small percentage of individuals who walked away on their duty. What about the ones that stayed? What about the ones that endured no food, no water, no ammunition?

Jeff Wind (ph) and his SWAT team, 30 entries into the Convention Center in dark conditions, where we're being fired upon and you couldn't shoot back. So what they would do is they would converge upon where the light was at. They would starting patting people down, and when they would grab a gun they would yell "Gun." And then it would be extracted. Imagine doing that one time. They did it 30 times.

Timmy Bayon (ph), he saved thousands of people. You know, Captain Bayon (ph)? He's a narcotics commander. He now became a boat and search and rescue expert.

S. O'BRIEN: So, you're going to run through all 1,200 of the officers...

COMPASS: But you're talking -- but (INAUDIBLE) he gave me a helicopter so we could do the supplying. Colonel Henry Whitehorn (ph), he was supplying us ammunition, food, clothing. These are the (INAUDIBLE).

Mayor Ray Nagin, the real hero of all of this, you know, a lot of people are taking bows. Mayor Ray Nagin, the greatest man in the history of the United States, stood strong. And people say why he wasn't giving a press conference? How could he brief me -- how could I brief him if he was in Baton Rouge? This man walked in the Superdome. His security team is very small. He walked in the Superdome. He walked in the convention center. He saw things from a bird's-eye view. He was encouraging citizens. That's what real leadership is.

S. O'BRIEN: Clearly a fan. All right, nice to talk to you captain -- chief, rather, excuse me.

COMPASS: Yes, don't demote me.

S. O'BRIEN: I'm sorry.

COMPASS: I don't think I've been demoted.

S. O'BRIEN: I haven't slept very much, and I know you haven't either. Thanks, chief. Nice to talk to you.

COMPASS: Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get right back to Miles -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Soledad.

In Mississippi the hurricane death toll has climbed now to 201. Search and rescue teams are still digging through the debris, hoping to find some survivors.

Meanwhile, officials are focused on getting victims the relief they so desperately need.

Allan Chernoff is live in a Salvation Army relief center in Biloxi, Mississippi.

Allan, tell us about the aid that is being provided there.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Miles, well, right now, we're right across the street from the Salvation Army relief. And you can see how some people are getting along right now, waking up this morning on their front lawns, sleeping on their mattresses while the house is in ruins.

In this family, there are still people inside the home, as there are in this entire neighborhood. The neighborhood absolutely devastated. You can see the roof ripped apart over there and the debris from the home just laying here on the street. Block after block of this.

Down the street, you can see dogs just running up and down the street, clearly having lost their owners, just searching for some food. You see that situation throughout Biloxi here.

Now, across the way we do have a Salvation Army relief center. They haven't opened just yet. As a matter of fact, the curfew in town has just lifted. The curfew has been in effect until 6:00 a.m. local time, partly because there had been looting, not in this neighborhood, but to the west, where there are more stores. This is a residential neighborhood, a relatively low-income neighborhood.

Of course, we also have Papa John's down over there, and they've been serving, they said, more than 12,000 pizzas since they arrived a few days ago. This morning for breakfast, they've got sausage and gravy pizzas.

In terms of relief, well, people are looking to FEMA for some financial aid. And the state says that there have been 61,000 people who have applied for relief, but many more want to. But they're having a terrible time trying to get hold of FEMA. People on radio saying that the best time to call, between 1:00 and 2:00 a.m. -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: 1:00 and 2:00 a.m. All right. I guess if that's what you've got to do, you get up and you call. Allan Chernoff in Biloxi, thank you.

Let's get some headlines now. Carol Costello in for that with that. Good morning -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Miles. Good morning to all of you.

"Now in the News."

Congress is poised to send another $51.8 billion in federal aid to the Gulf region. The vote could come today. Lawmakers approved a similar $10.5 billion aid package last week.

In the meantime, Vice President Dick Cheney is set to visit parts of Mississippi and Louisiana. He's planning to assess the recovery effort and report back on its progress right to his boss, President Bush.

An American man held hostage in Iraq for 10 months is celebrating his first full day of freedom. The U.S. military announced Wednesday that contractor Roy Hallums had been rescued in a dramatic U.S. raid based on a tip from an Iraqi prisoner. Hallums' ex-wife, Susan, was able to speak to him by phone. And she'll tell us how he's doing in a live interview in the next hour.

It's one of the largest recalls in automaker history. Ford is calling back nearly four million pickup trucks and SUVs. The cruise control switch may cause engine fires. The recall involves F-150 pickups, Ford Expeditions and Broncos, and the Lincoln Navigator series. Also, Toyota is recalling nearly one million vehicles because of concern about the power steering system, including Forerunner SUVs, compact pickups and T-100 pickups built between 1989 and 1998.

In the world of sports, oh, it was thrilling. Andre Agassi making a thrilling comeback at the U.S. Open. Agassi, who is playing in his 20th consecutive Open, defeated James Blake in an overnight battle that lasted nearly three hours. Blake powered through the first two sets with Agassi picking up the next two and surviving a tie-break in the final set. I think that defines thrilling. Agassi advances to face Robbie Jenifri in the semifinals on Friday.

And Tropical Storm Ophelia, the National Weather Service says Ophelia is about 70 miles east of Cape Canaveral. But they have no idea where it's going next. And Chad says that's because it's on a rather erratic track right now.

(WEATHER REPORT)

M. O'BRIEN: Did mid-level bureaucrats interested in protecting turf make it harder for people to help those hard hit by Katrina? Our next guest answers emphatically yes.

Dr. Jeffrey Guy is with the regional burn center at Vanderbilt University in Nashville. He says doctors were thwarted in their efforts to help. And in Dallas, Ken Rusnak, executive director of Angel Flights America, which provides emergency medical flights by private pilots for those in crisis, he says his pilots ran into all kinds of road blocks. Let's begin with you, Dr. Guy. Tell us what doctors encountered as they tried to help out?

DR. JEFFREY GUY, VANDERBILT REGIONAL BURN CENTER: We've had reports from all over the country where doctors and nurses using assets bought by the United States government were basically diverted or detained, because they didn't have the appropriate authorization or they had been authorized perhaps by the wrong government agency.

M. O'BRIEN: Authorization is a good thing, though, when you're talking about medical care, right?

GUY: Absolutely. But when somebody is dying, we have clearly people in need, and the first response, whether it's a disaster like this or it's somebody who is bleeding on the highway, you need to match the resources to the needs immediately.

M. O'BRIEN: And the kind of response you got was what?

GUY: Well, basically more bureaucracy. And we're seeing that even until today. What you're now seeing in the public eye is the kind of mid-level fighting between various agencies in different jurisdictions that have been going on for the past week is now becoming in the public.

M. O'BRIEN: Talk about a disaster.

Ken Rusnak, I've been hearing from all kinds of pilot friends all this past week or so just trying to use airplanes to try to help out and running into just silly regulations, temporary flight restrictions, unable to carry people because they didn't have the proper forms filled out. Has any of this been rectified?

KEN RUSNAK, EXEC. DIR., ANGEL FLIGHTS: As far as I know, it's running pretty smoothly now, Miles. We have not had any problems getting our pilots in and out of Baton Rouge.

Our problems occurred really sort of early on when we began to realize that there really was no command and control in place down there as far as the aid situation. We dispatched pilots last Friday trying to get 80 what we call medically-challenged people out of Baton Rouge at the request of the River Center shelter, and ran into a situation where we arrived and there were no patients. And when we called the head of the shelter to find out what happened, we were told that the governor's office had denied us access to take them out of state because...

M. O'BRIEN: So let's get this straight. This is the governor of Louisiana, correct, denying you access?

RUSNAK: Well, we don't know if it was the governor, Miles. We know that it came out of the governor's office.

M. O'BRIEN: OK. But denying you the permission...

RUSNAK: Right. M. O'BRIEN: ... to get these people to some proper care on what basis?

RUSNAK: Well, we got several explanations. One was that if we took them out of state, they would lose their FEMA reimbursement.

M. O'BRIEN: Really? That sounds like nonsense.

RUSNAK: Well, we were unable to verify that. We sent one of our people to the governor's office, and we were unable to get really any information. So, we just created our own command and control after that, set up our own op center at the Baton Rouge airport, and our people did a really Oman's duty (INAUDIBLE).

M. O'BRIEN: So, you just stepped into the vacuum and kind of took over.

RUSNAK: Well, we've got a lot of ex-military on board, and they jumped in there and said, we know how to do this, and they did. And they started circulating in the shelters. They got a hold of shelter people, Red Cross people, found patients that needed help and started moving people out of there with our aircrafts.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Dr. Guy, back to you for a moment. On the one hand, these stories really outraged people. It compounds a disaster.

GUY: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: On the other hand, this is such an unprecedented disaster that a lot of confusion, which a lot of this could be attributed to confusion, would be understandable. Where do you come down on that?

GUY: Well, Ken's story is not unique. I mean, we can tell you stories of 60, 70 ambulances being dispatched to areas and not being accessed to patients, because they don't have the right hanging government I.D. Ken made a good point. There was clearly a void of leadership. And in their organization, they created leadership where there was none.

What we have to be focused on here are the people, not the processes. And there's an over-focus right now on the processes. When people are in need, they need that need now. I'm sure that a person in need does not care that a bottle of water came from FEMA or the Coast Guard or the Red Cross or some Baptist relief organization.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. I want to get before you get away. People, not process, that's something to take away from this. Quickly, gentlemen, Dr. Guy first, do you think people lost their lives as a result of this?

GUY: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: Ken Rusnak, would you agree with that? RUSNAK: Yes, I'm afraid I'd have to, because there were a number of diabetics and dialysis patients that we were unable to move, I think. And I don't know how well they fared after we were unable to move them.

M. O'BRIEN: That is so sad. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. We appreciate it. Dr. Jeffrey Guy, the regional burn center at Vanderbilt. Ken Rusnak with the great organization called Angel Flights. And, gosh, whoever is listening there, people, not process. Let's remember that if we can.

Still to come, an update on a little girl you met Wednesday. She was staying in a San Antonio shelter after Katrina. She had no idea where her family was until now. Some very happy news on that front. Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Well, as it turns out, maybe it wasn't a great time to change the bankruptcy laws. Andy Serwer is here with that and more.

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: Well, they couldn't have known, Miles. But this is possibly some very bad news for those hurt the most by Hurricane Katrina.

The new bankruptcy law goes into effect October 17. And basically, as you may remember, it makes it tougher for those people hurt and in trouble to file for bankruptcy.

Here are the problems though. Here are some of the new provisions of the new bankruptcy law. Income based on previous six months' pay. Well, what if you file in November, and you haven't worked for two months? That's going to knock you down.

Tax returns and pay stubs required. Well, what if your paperwork is in the Gulf of Mexico?

And then mandatory credit counseling at your own expense. Well, what if you don't have any money?

There was a move afoot, Miles, to exempt people hurt by natural disasters, but Congress put the kabash (ph) on that.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, maybe they might have to put a kabash on the kabash. What do you think?

SERWER: I think that's a very good way of putting it.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes.

SERWER: And this may seem obvious, but there are new studies out that shows that people in states hit by natural disasters like hurricanes and earthquakes file for bankruptcy at a rate twice that of states that haven't. So obviously, you know, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out a lot of people are feeling the hurt. M. O'BRIEN: These people need some relief. Let's hope that Congress considers that.

SERWER: Do the right thing.

M. O'BRIEN: Do the right thing out there.

SERWER: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: People, not process.

SERWER: Right.

M. O'BRIEN: That's the theme of the morning here. Let's go to Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles, thanks.

We've been talking a lot about rescue and recovery, and because of that, we've been sharing lots of sad stories. Well, this morning, we have a story with a happy ending, a story of a little girl just 3 years old who lost her parents and her grandparents. We'll have that story in just a moment. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A follow-up now on a story that we shared with you on Wednesday, the story of a little girl just 3 years old who lost her parents and her grandparents. This morning, we have a happy resolution to report.

Here's Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: X marks the spot.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Little Mysteria's life is a mystery no more. The 3-year-old, who arrived in this San Antonio shelter without her family, was reunited with her mom and dad early this morning.

That's when we learned her name is actually Tyria.

(on camera): What was it like when you first saw her?

JEFFREY LEBOUEF, TYRIA'S FATHER: It was a sign of relief. She hasn't cried. You know, I was worried about her.

WALLACE (voice over): Our story begins yesterday when on AMERICAN MORNING we profiled this dazzling little girl.

RUTH JONES MCCLENDON, TEXAS STATE REPRESENTATIVE: We don't know where her mother is. We don't know where her father is. We don't know where her grandmother or grandfather. We just need to get the message out. WALLACE: Shortly after our story, this report from CNN's hurricane victims' help desk.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the story aired, we got word that her grandfather is in an Alabama shelter.

WALLACE: After that report, another family member recognized her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You saw her picture on TV. Is that right?

WALLACE: We were told the girl's parents evacuated to a shelter outside Baton Rouge and then drove from there to San Antonio to get their little girl. Tyria was with her grandfather and his girlfriend when Katrina hit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When the helicopters came, they first took the women and the children. And they thought that they were going to go back and get the men.

WALLACE: But the family was separated. And so the girlfriend has been caring for Tyria ever since.

(on camera): Why did you so much feel like you wanted to get her on national television?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew that once I get on CNN and once the reporters put the picture on the screen, and she's so adorable, people will see her.

WALLACE: Can you go faster?

(voice over): Her story has captivated San Antonio. After she appeared on the cover of the city's newspaper, the paper says it received tons of offers of help, including an offer from basketball great David Robinson, formerly of the San Antonio Spurs, to take care of Tyria if her family could not be located. The response to the little girl we once knew as Mysteria, not mysterious, but magical.

(on camera): Will you miss her?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely. She's so adorable. I will absolutely miss her. But she needs to be with her biological parents. She really does. She's an adorable child.

Kelly Wallace, CNN, San Antonio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: And some more good news to report. Remember yesterday we told you about the Smith family? They were trying to get to Memphis. They were looking for a van big enough to take the whole family, 14 people? Just a few moments after our story then aired, someone called and offered them a van coming from Memphis. They're going to pick them up and bring them to their relatives there. Ahead this morning, we're going to talk more about those mandatory evacuation orders. If there are indeed some 15,000 people in this city, how are they going to get them all out? A look at that ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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