Return to Transcripts main page

Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace for September 8, 2005, CNNHN

Aired September 08, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, New Orleans still largely under water, becoming more toxic by the minute. Thousands of people holding out, rather than abandoning their own homes. Can the government force you to leave your own home?
And tonight, we desperately need your help. Help us reunite missing loved ones -- mothers, daughters, fathers, sons, uncles, with cousins and grandparents. Believe me, one person can make a difference.

Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, as flood waters slowly recede, evidence of the true depth of Katrina`s destruction mounts. Thousands buried in shallow, watery graves, in attics, living rooms, even the streets of the city, are slowly discovered. Today, 14 bodies at New Orleans Memorial Hospital. Tonight, 25,000 body bags ordered by FEMA arrive in Louisiana. Also tonight, more evacuations, voluntary and forced, as the hold-outs stand strong. But there is still so much work to do.

I want to go straight out to Sean Callebs, standing by in Houston. Sean, what`s the latest?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, they are making progress here in terms of sort of finding all the people, all the evacuees that have been in this complex now for more than a week, more permanent housing. If you think about it, about eight days ago, they had registered 30,000 evacuees to the stay in the Astrodome and the two Reliant buildings adjoining here. However, with all the work, that is now down to 8,600.

But there are also still some problems that continue to creep up. Today, the Red Cross announced they were going to be giving out debit cards with amounts of anywhere from $200 to $2,000 to all -- to the people here, on the site, who needed the money. However, that kind of word quickly got out. So many of the evacuees who already had moved out to apartments in other areas came flooding back in to get those debit cards. And it created a certain degree of chaos this morning, overwhelmed the police officers here. They had to lock down the building for a short while. It`s very difficult for them, but they had to turn all of those evacuees who came here away.

And the Red Cross and FEMA says that some time in the future, beginning tomorrow here, they will begin trying to give those debit cards to the evacuees off site, now desperately in need of that money to help get back on their feet.

GRACE: Joining us now, Anderson Cooper from New Orleans. Anderson, what are the conditions?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Nancy, you know, they continue to just be -- I don`t want to use the word indescribable because, you know, frankly, it`s my job to try to describe it and seems like a cop-out. You know, there`s several feet of water. More than 50 percent of the city is still under water. You can talk about this water dropping in places. There`s a long, long way to go. And what the water is hiding is just -- it`s -- well, every day, the horror is going to be revealed a little bit more and more. And every day, we are learning a little bit more and more of the tragedy that has happened here.

And you know, people may say, Well, look, that was two weeks ago, you know? That`s not a new story. But you know what? It is a new story because it would be a shame if all of this was just swept away, if the garbage gets cleaned up and the water drained and these people, these people who have died are just removed in body bags and people just move on and forget.

We can`t forget what happened here, and we are looking at the stories that are just coming out of what happened in that convention center. We were with a doctor today who was one of the few doctors there trying to treat 15,000 people with a stethoscope, Nancy. He and some New Orleans cops had to loot a pharmacy in order just to get some medicine. I mean, they were -- this guy was going on the Internet, when they still had an Internet connection, begging people for help, begging for anyone, trying to get other doctors to come, trying to get the federal government to come.

And what he saw in that convention center -- we walked around with him, and it is -- it`s hard to imagine -- I mean, right now, the stench is unbelievable, but hard to imagine when 15,000 people were packed in there. There were children, infants dying because they couldn`t get an IV bag.

It continues to be -- you know, we continue to feel, I think a lot of us who are here, that we`re not in the United States of America, that we are in some far distant land on the edge of the world.

GRACE: Anderson, you just told me a story of a doctor with a stethoscope trying to treat -- how many people are there?

COOPER: Fifteen thousand. That was his estimate.

GRACE: Anderson, what is happening at the -- tell me what is happening there at the dome.

COOPER: Well, at the dome -- I mean, that was the convention center. At the Superdome, we can`t even get in there anymore. We tried to. We kind of just tried to kind of wander in. We didn`t have official permission, weren`t allowed to. We were stopped by some really, you know, vigilant soldiers, as well they should have.

But they say the Superdome is likely going to have to be torn down. A spokesperson for the former FEMA director, who`s working with the state now, said that initial reports said the damage is far greater than they previously thought and it`s likely -- and they said likely -- going to have to -- the whole thing`s going to have to be torn down.

But this convention center, I mean, we`re just get something pictures of some of these bodies that they found up there. This doctor said he saw maybe -- he was estimating 50 bodies. And we`re talking -- I mean, they were dumping old people from nursing homes, from home care facilities...

GRACE: Wait a minute, Anderson...

COOPER: ... and they were just leaving them there.

GRACE: Anderson, hold on. I just want to warn the viewers that, right now, Anderson is describing some very disturbing conditions at the convention center. We do not know the cause of deaths of these victims there in the convention center. I just want to warn you of what you`re seeing and what you`re about to see. I`m sorry, Anderson. Go ahead.

COOPER: No -- yes -- one source had told CNN that some of the bodies had been mutilated after death. That has not been independently confirmed. What this doctor, Dr. Greg Henderson (ph), told us -- and he was there and he saw these bodies, you know, several days ago, when they still were there -- they`ve now been emptied out. You know, he saw -- he saw infants who had died because he couldn`t get an IV. He saw old people who died.

I mean, they were bringing people -- they were telling everyone, Go to the convention center, you`re going to get help. Go to the convention center, that`s the rallying point. We`re going to evacuate you from there. All these people dropped off at the convention center, and they are left there one day, two days, three days, four days.

I mean, you know, it`s amazing, this one doctor went with a New Orleans cop, who was brave enough to go, because a lot of the police said, You know what? I`m not going in there. We`ll drive by, but you know, there are gangs running this place. And you know, there are stories and rumors of what was happening there, and we`re not going to repeat them because I don`t want to traffic in rumor. But when the facts come out, this doctor says, he considers it a national disgrace.

GRACE: Anderson, amidst these conditions, are people -- are our fellow Americans living in the convention center still?

COOPER: No. They`re not in the convention center anymore. There are two little dogs who are living in the convention center. That`s the only life we saw there left. The evacuation point is now right across the convention center. This doctor, Dr. Henderson, who we were with, help set up a triage unit right across from the convention center. So all the evacuees are now brought there, and they get a medical check-up, because there are a lot of doctors here now, and they`re evacked by helicopters from the Army, from Marines, from the Navy, from the Coast Guard. So they`re getting out.

But there are people still people living in their homes, you know, who don`t want to leave because they`re afraid. They think they can`t bring their pets, even though authorities are now letting people bring their pets. They weren`t before. But there are a lot of people just holding out.

You know, there`s a building not too far -- we got a story there were 20 people in that building. We asked the Army to go check it out yesterday. We couldn`t find out today whether they have. And we just noticed, I mean, just looking at it, we saw people`s, you know, faces poking out of the windows.

GRACE: Hey, Anderson, can you stay with me a few more moments?

COOPER: I`ll try to, Nancy.

GRACE: OK. We`re having a lot of difficulty with our satellites there in New Orleans. With me there, Anderson Cooper.

One of the people that is in desperate need tonight, and I want you to help us if you can -- her name is Kisha Key. And she is joining us on a satellite in Atlanta. She is missing her mother. Kisha, while you`re talking, I`m going to show pictures of your mom. Tell us about your mom and when she went missing.

KISHA KEY, MOTHER STILL MISSING AFTER HURRICANE: My mom went missing Monday morning. I did speak with her, and she said that she wanted to leave, but she couldn`t because the water was so high. She lives on the top part of her apartment, and I told my mom, Well, wait until the waters subside and then try to exit then. I haven`t heard a word from her since.

And my goal here tonight is that I just want at least one person to knock on her door. It`s -- you know, that`s -- you know, I`m her only child, and I just need some help. I have exhausted all resources. I`ve called the Coast Guard, and you know, haven`t gotten a call back. They do say they`re going to follow up. And I`m here for family members like myself that we`re trying our best to find our loved ones, but we`re not getting any response back.

GRACE: Kisha, tell me about your mother. What does she do?

KEY: My mom, she`s -- my mom, she`s an incredible woman. She has many talents, but her love is sewing. As we mentioned, Larry King knew my mom. She recently received a bid for the jazz festival, being the wardrobe mistress, as well as the Essence music festival, so -- and also, by trade, she`s a paralegal. She`s a recent college grad at the age of 52. She went back to college. She has so much to live for.

GRACE: Kisha, what is your mom`s age?

KEY: She`s 54 now.

GRACE: Her name is Sylvia Hall (ph), correct?

KEY: Yes.

GRACE: Sylvia Hall. And I`m going to give out your address. For anyone listening tonight, police, citizens, newscaster, if you can help us. Sylvia Hall`s address, 3817 Palmyra (ph) Street. She lives near Xavier, five blocks From Xavier, 3817 Palmyra, New Orleans. Her daughter has a number set up 770-845-1101. Elizabeth (ph), can you show me the picture of Sylvia one more time? This is Kisha`s mother. If anyone can even knock on her door, anything, 3817 Palmyra street. Won`t you help us?

Trouble is not over for the Southland. Tropical Storm Ophelia hits hurricane status this afternoon, winds 75 mph, the same speed Katrina reached August 26, when the White House declared impending disaster. Ophelia`s center, 70 miles east-northeast of Cape Canaveral, Florida. We bring you the latest as Ophelia develops.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was a category four hurricane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The vast majority couldn`t get out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We responded quickly.

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: I need reinforcements.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is an American problem.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are hoping that we will hear from Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to get these dead bodies out of the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand why it`s taking so long.

NAGIN: Let`s fix the biggest Goddam crisis in the history of this country!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We trust that Congress will help with us that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a great outpouring of support from the faith community and from private citizens.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want to help them get their life back.

NAGIN: We`ve had hell, we`ve had high water, we`ve had death. The spirit of death has been over this city for seven days, and it`s got to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. I want to go straight out to Brian Todd, CNN correspondent. He`s standing by at the headquarters of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, trying to reunite families. Welcome, Brian. Tell me what they`re doing.

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Nancy, they have really mobilized here. Since Monday, they have set up this command center behind me. They call it the Katrina missing persons hotline. They have dozens of people in here, between 15 and 40 at a time, 16 hours a day, manning telephones. They`re telling people to call in here, go to the center`s Web site, do anything to report a missing child.

Now, the numbers that they`ve given us as of this evening, they`ve got just over 1,000 children reported missing. Of those, they have recovered 188. So the number that stands now is 866 children throughout all of the hurricane-ravaged areas are listed as missing tonight.

GRACE: I want to ask you what the obstacles are that they are encountering trying to reunite the families.

TODD: There are many, Nancy, many and almost everywhere they go. They have people who call in, who are calling in from cell phones that then go dead because they`ve got no battery power and the cell phones are dying out. Many of the people who are calling in and wanting to know where their children are, are themselves moving around from shelter to shelter, and once they take a call, then they can`t find that person who gave them the tip. The kids themselves are being moved from shelter to shelter sometimes.

I mean, you`ve got people who have been separated in the evacuation process, families that were together until they were evacuated and then split apart and are panicked now and can`t find each other. Now, many of the kids I`ve given you, these 866 children who are missing, that includes children who are missing outright and also children who have been found and are in shelters, but can`t find their parents. So there are many, many obstacles they face.

GRACE: Brian, how is the hotline working? Who`s taking the calls?

TODD: You`ve got -- the people behind me -- and again, at a time, there are anywhere between 20 and 40 people. They`re all former law enforcement officers, anywhere from FBI people to sheriffs, police. They`re very dedicated people. They`re here, you know, as I said, 16 hours a day, from 8:00 AM until midnight. So they rotate people in and out. But these are very, very dedicated people.

I just talked in one of our live reports here to a gentleman who was an FBI special agent for 24 years, and he ran their serial killer and abduction unit. So he`s very familiar with this kind of thing. And we`re hearing some stories that you just wouldn`t believe.

GRACE: Hey, Brian, how many people are still searching for family members through this service?

TODD: I mean, they`re getting thousands of calls. To quantify the number of people still searching for their family members, they`re getting thousands of calls an hour from people who are needing information, grandparents who haven`t heard from their grandchildren, again, parents who -- you know, who don`t know where their kids are, kids who don`t know where their parents are. To know the number of people actually searching right now, there`s no way they can put a figure on it, but they get hundreds of calls an hour. And you`ve got the 866 kids still missing.

GRACE: Joining me from Houston, Jerome Pitts. Jerome is missing his mother, his stepfather and his brother. Jerome, what happened?

JEROME PITTS, MISSING HIS MOTHER, STEPFATHER AND BROTHER: I went by my Godsister`s house that Sunday morning, and I kissed my momma and stuff before she went to work. And I tried calling her that night, and I couldn`t get back in touch with her.

GRACE: Now, you managed to get out of New Orleans. You were rescued by the Coast Guard, right?

PITTS: Yes, ma`am.

GRACE: What happened?

PITTS: I was rescued by the Coast Guard, and then from there, they put us on the bridge, and from the bridge, the bus took us to Houston.

GRACE: Now, you live with your mom, your stepdad and your brother. Why didn`t they get out with you?

PITTS: I didn`t know why my brother and my stepdad didn`t leave. Momma went to work that morning, and I was trying to call them to let them know that they should leave, but nobody answered the phone.

GRACE: Mr. Pitts, where do you think they would go? Where do you think they may be?

PITTS: I have no idea.

GRACE: Do you have any idea, even, remote, a phone call, word from someone that knows them, anything about whether they made it out?

PITTS: No, ma`am.

GRACE: He is looking for his mother, Ruby Everett, age 54, his stepfather, Ray Everett, 52, his brother, Tyrone Pitts, 31. Jerome, if your family can hear you, what is your message?

PITTS: I want to let all of them know I love them. I want my momma to know I miss her. I want my brother to know that all the stuff we went through, I wish we could be together.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Destruction like never before. Joining me now, three mayors whose towns are suffering. I want to go to Mayor Ben Morris of Slidell, Louisiana. Sir, I have been to your town, Slidell. It is beautiful. Tell me its condition tonight.

MAYOR BEN MORRIS, SLIDELL, MISSISSIPPI : Well, tonight, we`re slowly coming out of the woodwork. When the storm passed, we had a total collapse of our infrastructure, and we had about, oh, 25,000, 30,000 trees down. All our streets were blocked. We had no water, no power, no phones, no cell phones. We had no contact with the outside world. It was almost like we were in a black hole.

GRACE: Mayor Morris, how many of your residents are now homeless?

MORRIS: I`m estimating between 10,000 to 15,000.

GRACE: Where are you going to put them?

MORRIS: Well, the parish -- or it would be your county -- is working on a -- with the Corps of Engineers and the FEMA, trying to establish some cities made up of the...

GRACE: Right.

MORRIS: ... the tractor -- I mean, the trailers and et cetera. So we expect that to happen pretty soon. But we had about, I would estimate, 75 percent of our population got out of town.

GRACE: Thank God for that. I want to quickly go to Mayor Bill White, the mayor of Houston. How is the city surviving with the influx of victims?

MAYOR BILL WHITE, HOUSTON: Well, the city`s responding great, and we`ve had over 150,000 people here. Many are getting jobs. We`re putting people in apartments at a rate of 1,000 a day. People are getting out of shelters. And, you know, people are getting back on their feet. And the people of Houston has been wonderful.

GRACE: Mayor White, all I can say is God bless Houston. How will the city of Houston pay for the relief effort?

WHITE: Well, I`ll tell you, we have come out of pocket, but we sure hope that Congress and others will be there. We`ve responded for America, and we know that America will respond. We know that Congress is considering legislation today. We`ve taken people in our schools. We`ve taken people in our emergency rooms...

GRACE: I want to give out...

WHITE: ... and we need to be helped by America.

GRACE: Mayor White, I want to give out your dot address so people can contribute. It`s www.houstonkatrinarelieffund-.-org. (SIC)

WHITE: You bet. And this will be used for local relief. We`re glad to do our obligation to help fellow Americans, but we don`t want to be left with all the bills.

GRACE: You need help, too, Mayor. Very quickly, to Mayor Brent Warr. He is the mayor of Gulfport, Mississippi. Mayor, tell me about your town.

MAYOR BRENT WARR, GULFPORT, MISSISSIPPI: Well, the only way to say it is, honestly, it`s just total destruction. There`s not a lot left. Most of the homes have had significant damage. The majority of the homes south of interstate 10 were -- had severe damage. South of the railroad tracks on the waterfront, totally destroyed. There`s not one historic structure left in the city of Gulfport.

GRACE: Mayor, do you have any idea how many Gulfport residents are homeless?

WARR: Probably, in my estimation, it would be around 15,000. We didn`t evacuate nearly as many as Slidell did. We`re a city of around 80,000. A lot of the people were able to stay in their homes, and they`re trying to clean out and see if they can rebuild their homes and clean them up, make them habitable again. We just don`t know.

GRACE: Mayor, before your satellite goes down on me, what are the most urgent needs for Gulfport right now?

WARR: Well, we`ve gotten fuel. We`ve set up a fund goodforgulfport.com. I`m sorry, goodforgulfport. We`ve opened accounts at three banks. And funding is a big issue. Ontario, California, has opened up their hearts to us, and they`ve been sending in a tremendous amount of goods. We`re not exactly sure what we need right now, to be honest with you, except for help.

GRACE: To Mayor Warr, Mayor White and Mayor Morris, our prayers are with you. Thank you for being with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts. And this is your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Floodwaters in New Orleans are now receding at a rate of four to six inches a day, as the grisly task of recovering bodies continues. FEMA officials have ordered 25,000 body bags to the area. Meanwhile, authorities continue to try to evacuate the thousands still in the city.

And after just one day, FEMA is changing its plan to distribute credit cards to hurricane victims. Only evacuees in Houston will get the cards. Others can sign up for post office boxes and get checks in the mail.

All six major TV networks will simulcast a live commercial-free benefit concert tomorrow night. Artists include Paul Simon, Sheryl Crow, Mary J. Blige, Neil Young, Kanye West, and U2. The fundraiser salutes the Gulf Coast citizens and rescue personnel.

The southeast is bracing for another powerful storm. Look at this. Ophelia became a hurricane this afternoon with 75 mile-an-hour winds. Right now, it`s stationary off Cape Canaveral, Florida, and may head northeast away from land. But forecasters say it could double back.

That is the news for now. Thanks for joining us. I`m Thomas Roberts. We take you back for more of NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another little saying, come hell or high water. They came together. It`s not hell or high water. It`s hell with high water. I want to cry every time I look at this, man. That`s my whole house that I worked my whole life for.

HARDY JACKSON, HURRICANE SURVIVOR: She said, "Let you. You can`t hold me." Oh, I said, "Please, baby, don`t say that." I said, "We`ll save you. Please, babe, don`t leave me." She said, "Take care of them kids."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I tried swimming to higher ground, but there was no higher ground.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at all this catastrophe. It`s unbelievable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us.

I want to go straight out to Sean Callebs standing by at the Houston Astrodome.

Sean, I know that a lot of these children, evacuees displaced, were supposed to start back to school today. What happened?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you they were lined up here first thing in the morning, and the kids were certainly excited. They have been in that cramped Astrodome behind me for more than a week now. So you can imagine how eager they were to get out and have some semblance of a normal life.

Certainly, there was some anxiety on the part of parents. These people have been uprooted from their homes and gone through so much. They didn`t want to see their children leave their side. But they know it is the right thing to do.

We also went into a high school yesterday, and we followed two kids around, two really good kids, both of them 16 years old. They had great lives in New Orleans. They looked forward to their sophomore year. Everything got completely uprooted.

Both the young woman we talked, a young man, they have not talked to their friends. They have no idea where they are.

And just to give you an idea of how tough this is on the young girl, she said she`s seen her parents just break down over the past several days. They`ve lost everything, their home, all their possessions, their clothes. And it`s so difficult for this young girl to see her parents going through this.

And she`s also in the position where she is in need. So people at this high school, Westside High School here in Houston, they are doing everything they can to help these thousands of school children who are going to be going to Houston public schools. They`ve gotten backpacks, supplies, clothes, food, just about everything you can imagine.

But this young girl, it`s very difficult for her to accept this, because she`s a very proud person and has never needed anything like this in her life. But she recognizes that she does need it. And she told us that she likes to think that it just comes from God.

GRACE: Sean, about how many hurricane survivors are there in Houston now?

CALLEBS: Well, we heard the mayor say about 150,000. I have no trouble believing that.

And we listened to Jerome Pitts (ph) a short while ago. This is a rock-solid guy. And you saw how he broke down talking about his mother.

We hear dozens of stories like that every day. If you think -- I mean, we throw these numbers around, 150,000 here, 1.4 million in the city who had to evacuate.

We have to remember, each one of those individuals has an almost amazing story of survival and almost all of them have disconnected family right now. So this is a crisis. And it`s so difficult to hear all these people talk about what they`re going through as they try to put their families and their lives back together.

GRACE: To Mary Snow, CNN correspondent.

Mary, have forced evacuations started in New Orleans?

MARY SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The police superintendent is saying that they are still trying to convince people to leave. And, you know, Nancy, we heard the numbers, that there could be anywhere up to 15,000 people still in New Orleans who don`t want to leave. So there`s a real question of when this is going to happen and how exactly it will happen.

GRACE: Mary, Mary, how many did you say are still there that don`t want to evacuate?

SNOW: The number that we`ve been hearing has been 10,000 to 15,000 in the city. Whether or not some -- we`ve gotten some indications that some people are now saying, "OK, we`re giving in. We`re going to leave." But we don`t know how many are there.

GRACE: But, Mary, does the mayor of New Orleans have the authority to force someone to leave their home?

SNOW: Under a Louisiana statute, he does, along with the governor. And this is a law that they can enact. If they do say that there is a mandatory forcible evacuation, then the police could go in and do that.

Now, the governor has power over the National Guard. And that is the big question, just exactly how this would be carried out.

GRACE: To Joe Lawless, Joe, I`m not so sure I want the government telling me to get out of my home. You know, I don`t take very kindly to -- you know, what does the government know? You know, the government sat on its thumb and didn`t even declare this as a disaster or send the aid on time.

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Nancy, the governor of Louisiana, under the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Disaster and Relief Act, has the authority to declare an emergency, including a health emergency. And once that`s done, she has the power to direct the evacuation of the area that`s affected. Remember...

GRACE: Well, I know what the law says, Joe. I know. I`ve got it right here, the emergency powers.

So? Does that mean that this is correct? Just because they pass a law, does that mean it`s correct? I don`t know, Joe, about forcing somebody to leave their home.

LAWLESS: Well, you`re not just forcing someone to leave their home. You`re trying to mitigate the situation that they`re in. And sometimes, the physical presence of people in a disaster area, if they can be removed, complicates or compounds the disaster recovery, interfering with police, causing people to be in dangerous situations where`s resources have to be transferred to the rescuers.

GRACE: Oh, please. You think the situation is going to be more dangerous than it already is? And now people that have managed to survive, 15,000 people, that want to stay in their home, come hell or high water, as the man from New Orleans said, I don`t know that, at this point, the government with a straight face can go in and make people leave their home.

LAWLESS: Well, that`s the problem. And I think right now what the mayor is trying to do is they`re going through the city and they`re trying to do it in a volunteer way to not force people to do it.

But apparently, the situation is getting so bad, in terms of just the physical health risks and the environment, that the people who didn`t want to stay are thinking maybe now it`s a good time to get out.

GRACE: To Patricia Saunders, psychotherapist. You know, I know it doesn`t make sense to a lot of people that these residents would dig in and refuse to leave. But explain to me, Patricia, why people would refuse to leave their home. I don`t think many of them are going to take kindly, at this juncture, for the government to say, "Well, this is what we think is best for you."

DR. PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I think the majority of people who are refusing to leave their homes feel and may, in fact, have no other place to go. One`s home is one`s life, and especially for older folk, or for really poor folk, or for folks who are isolated.

This is their life. They have nothing else. It`s their identity. It`s themselves. I think they should have the choice to stay.

GRACE: Well, look. You and I can sit back and say, "Yes, they should leave. They should save their own skin." But I don`t know about the government intruding, after all the disastrous series of decisions that they have already made.

Speaking of New Orleans, joining us now, my friend and colleague, Susan Candiotti there in New Orleans.

Susan, what can you tell me about this tragedy at the nursing home?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, the latest at that nursing home is that, tonight, about seven ambulances pulled up to the home.

We were told that they, indeed, had found more bodies, according to sources close to the investigation, but that they lacked the proper equipment to go in there this night and try to get them out. And so they had to leave and would come back again in the morning.

This is a tragic situation involving St. Rita`s Nursing Home, about 20 miles southeast of New Orleans. And we talked to a man today who said that -- whose mother lived inside that nursing home.

And he, himself, is an emergency management planner. In fact, he used to head up emergency services for the Louisiana National Guard.

And he said that he started calling on Saturday and again on Sunday, saying to the nursing home, "Are you getting out? Are you evacuating? Are you getting my mother to safe grounds?" He, himself, couldn`t get there because he was about 30 miles away and working emergency management for another parish here, Jefferson Parish.

In any case, they first they told him, no, they weren`t leaving on Saturday. And then on Sunday, they told him, "Well, we`re going to try."

We don`t know how good of a job they did. We only know that some people got out. But we know at least 30 people did not get out. They drowned when the storm hit.

And, Nancy, this is just a tragic situation. We don`t know whether that nursing home had an evacuation plan in place, whether they carried it out. We`ve been unable to reach the owners of that nursing home, and we`ve been checking and checking with the state to try to find out more information about this evacuation plan and what exactly was done, Nancy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIA POWELL, FOUND HER FAMILY AFTER SPEAKING OUT ON NANCY GRACE: And I`d really like to thank Nancy and CNN because they truly helped us a lot. This is more than -- a little bit more than I expected and a little bit sooner than I expected, but I thank you all, especially you, Nancy, very much. Because without your help, I could not have done this on my own.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: You`re welcome.

Thank you, Elizabeth. I didn`t know that.

Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to go straight back out to Susan Candiotti.

Susan, about the people that perished in the nursing home, were the employees in there, or were these just the patients? I`m just trying to imagine old people in a nursing home unable to move and seeing the water rising up around them.

CANDIOTTI: Oh, Nancy, it`s just a horrible thought. And, of course, when you live in a nursing home, you are at the mercy of those who are taking care of you.

You know, sheriff`s officials unable to tell us whether the people that died were only residents or staff. What about the owners? That`s the thing we`ve been trying to reach out to the owners, as well, to find out more about whether they had an evacuation plan and why they did what they did. But we`ve been unable to reach them.

So were they inside? These are the questions we still don`t have the answers to.

GRACE: That really hits a nerve with me, Susan. My grandmother worked at a nursing home for a really long time, helping people. She was up in her 70s herself. I`m just trying to imagine the scene of these people, these elderly people, trying to get out of this nursing home.

CANDIOTTI: You know, Nancy, there are reports that some people who lived in the neighborhood -- reports that they tried to get some of these people out of the nursing home by putting them on a mattress and floating them out.

GRACE: Oh!

CANDIOTTI: We`ve been unable to confirm that, but those are some news reports.

GRACE: You know, Susan, you can tell a lot about the society you live in the way that our elderly and our unfortunate citizens, our poor, are treated. It says who we are as a country.

I want us to go quickly to some Duke University students who put their money where their mouth was, who felt the urge to help. And they did it.

Sonny Byrd, Hans Buder, David Hankla, welcome, gentlemen.

First, to Sonny Byrd. Tell me what happened.

SONNY BYRD, POSED AS JOURNALIST TO SNEAK INTO NEW ORLEANS AND RESCUE PEOPLE: Well, it was Thursday, about 4:00 p.m. The three of us put our heads together. We had been watching CNN, and we couldn`t stand the images any longer. We got in my car, and we headed for Louisiana.

GRACE: And?

BYRD: And on the way into Baton Rouge, we tried four different highways to get into New Orleans, all of which were blocked by the National Guard. We went to Baton Rouge for the night, and we worked at a local news station, which is where we conceived the idea to forge press credentials and borrow a news reporter`s shirt so that we could sneak our way into the city to help people out.

GRACE: Hans, when you got into the city what did you do?

HANS BUDER, POSED AS JOURNALIST TO SNEAK INTO NEW ORLEANS AND RESCUE PEOPLE: We made our way in the direction of the convention center, because that is -- those were the images we had seen on CNN that were really -- they were staggering. There was about 15,000 people trapped there with no foot or water for 15 days.

And we ended up -- we drove in, in 20 minutes in a Hyundai Elantra.

GRACE: David Hankla, what did you see?

DAVID HANKLA, POSED AS JOURNALIST TO SNEAK INTO NEW ORLEANS AND RESCUE PEOPLE: The further into the city we got, the more and more destruction we could see. And especially once we got to the convention center, the sights were truly deplorable.

I mean, the fact that people were forced to live in those conditions for, you know, four or five days at a time was jut utterly unacceptable and, in a way, un-American. I mean, you could -- as you walked into the convention center, the smell in particular was even more devastating than just the sight.

I mean, it smelled like someone had used it as a toilet for days, which they had. And, you know, the National Guardsmen that we talked to there informed us that the second and third floors were quite full of bodies and there was just trash and broken chairs and everything all over the place.

GRACE: You know, Sonny, you said what you saw was a national disgrace, that you could not believe that you were seeing this suffering in America. And I tell you what, Sonny, if I hadn`t seen the pictures here on Headline and CNN, and had Anderson Cooper tell me with his own mouth, I would not have believed it, either.

What did you see, Sonny?

BYRD: It was a disaster zone. And it was un-American for people to be trapped in those quarters for four or five days. And the fact that we could easily access the convention center in 20 minutes off of the highway was even more mind-boggling, because supposedly these people were trapped. Well, we didn`t have any problem accessing them.

GRACE: What did you do, Hans, to try to help them?

BUDER: Well, when we got there, they had just started helicoptering people out earlier in that day. So there was about 100 people left when we got there. So we left the convention center about 7:30 p.m. We drove a couple blocks away, and we actually picked up four people and put them in our car.

One man had been bitten by fire ants. He couldn`t swim, so he had to climb a tree. And the fire ants were in the tree.

GRACE: Oh, good lord.

BUDER: He got mauled all over his face. So he just kept saying he needed to get to a hospital. We took him and three women, brought them up to Baton Rouge, dropped the man off at the hospital. And then we promised the three women that we`d come back and get two of their husbands. And we went in at first light, back into the city, back through the military blockade, got the two husbands and another gentleman, and went back and reunited them with their family.

GRACE: Now, to David Hankla, is it true that you stole a press pass and a t-shirt with a news station logo on it, and then basically lied your way through police barricades?

HANKLA: It`s a harsh way of putting it, but, yes, to a degree, that is what we had to do.

GRACE: Yes. Well, I would like to tell you, David, that I`m willing to make a cameo appearance, just this once, as a defense attorney and represent all three of you.

HANKLA: Thank you very much.

BUDER: Thank you, Miss Grace.

BYRD: Thank you very much.

GRACE: Hey, Washington, D.C., did you get a load of these three? They managed to get in their car and get there and help. Now, isn`t it amazing that our government couldn`t do the same for our fellow Americans?

Sonny, as you look back on this, what is your most vivid memory?

BYRD: My most vivid memory is -- well, we were just terrified when we saw over 100 buses leaving the city empty. From that point on, we knew that incompetence was ruling.

And also, it was a very vivid memory to see a boy on the street corner of Magazine Street with a sign that said "Need Food and Water Desperately." I don`t think I`ll ever forget that face, Nancy.

GRACE: You know, Susan Candiotti, still standing by in New Orleans, Susan, I know you can`t see this, but these three guys from Duke University managed to get there and help, but not our government.

CANDIOTTI: Very resourceful young men, to say the least. And, Nancy, of course, that`s the question that we`re hearing time and time again from the people who are here who cannot understand why it took so long for help to arrive.

And, you know, I don`t know that we`re ever truly going to get to the heart of that, but a lot of people will certainly try.

GRACE: To Sonny Byrd, Hans Buder, and David Hankla, you are three young American heroes. I`m just so proud to meet you, even over the airwaves.

Stay with us.

BUDER: Thanks.

BYRD: Thank you very much.

HANKLA: Thank you, Miss Grace.

BUDER: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We at NANCY GRACE want desperately to reunite families torn apart by Katrina. Take a look at Euel Bennett. He lived in New Orleans, has not been seen or heard from since the hurricane, is diabetic, and is in dire need of insulin. Please, if you have information on this gentleman, Euel Bennett, call his son, Michael, 314-392-3392.

Welcome back. Very quickly to Mary Snow, CNN correspondent.

Mary, if they do enforce the evacuation, what happens to those people who refuse to leave?

SNOW: Anyone who violates it could be then arrested and forcibly removed from their homes.

GRACE: And put where, Mary, where?

SNOW: That question I cannot answer. As you have seen, so many people displaced. But that is what the law calls for. The police do not want to have to do this, though.

GRACE: OK, I want to quickly -- thanks, Miss Mary.

Very quickly to Kisha Key, who is still with us. Kisha, if you could speak out to your mom right now, what is your message?

KISHA KEY, HER MOTHER STILL MISSING AFTER HURRICANE: Mom, you always call me your angel. I am your angel. I am fighting desperately to get you home safely. I love you, Mom.

GRACE: This is a shot of Kisha`s mother. Her name is Silvia Hall, address, 3817 Palmira Street, New Orleans, 770-845-1101. If you have any information on Kisha`s mother.

I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But my biggest thank you is to you for being with us, inviting us into your home.

Coming up, headlines around the world. It`s hard to take in sometimes in the face of suffering that there is happiness somewhere.

Tonight, happy birthday to one of our directors, Brett. Happy birthday, buddy.

Everybody, thank you again for being with us. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off for tonight. Our hearts in the Southland. Good night, friend.

END