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American Morning

Some Say Bureaucracy Slowed Appropriate Response to Hurricane Victims

Aired September 09, 2005 - 07:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. And welcome back. We're coming to you live from downtown New Orleans. And, in fact, we'll give you a little tour of where we are this morning.
The police command and control center at the foot of canal is pretty much where we've set up. If we get a shot here of the aquarium, because now that the light is up you can you get a better sense of how it looks today. Who would have thought that one day tanks would be parked right out in front of the aquarium?

They suffered a massive loss there. Six thousand of their marine animals perished, and that happened because, of course, when they lost the power, the life support systems also failed. And so, they had some very massive problems.

Massive problems as well in Mississippi. The governor there, Haley Barbour, says that the disaster is just breathtaking. Bridges down. And everything a complete and total mess there -- Miles.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you very much, Soledad.

More money is on its way to hurricane victims as Congress approved nearly $52 billion in additional aid. The president signed it. Lawmakers on both sides of the aisle railing against the red tape that has hampered the initial relief efforts.

Among them, Louisiana Congressman Bobby Jindal, who joins us now from Baton Rouge.

Congressman, good to have you back on the program. We spoke...

REP. BOBBY JINDAL (R), LOUISIANA: Good morning. Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. We spoke eight days ago. It seems like an eternity ago. And at that time...

JINDAL: It absolutely does.

M. O'BRIEN: At that time, you said, now is not the time for, you know, finger-pointing and so forth. Yesterday, you came out and started pointing a few fingers in "The Wall Street Journal." I want to quote a small portion of your piece and ask you a little more about it.

You said, a mayor in my district tried to get supplies for his constituents, who were hit directly by the hurricane. He called for help. He was put on hold to 45 minutes. Eventually a bureaucrat promised to write a memo to his supervisor. And then you go on and talk about other cases where somebody said, well, if you want that request answered you have to send in an e-mail. You had no electricity. On and on it goes.

On the one hand, we sort of expect the government to have bureaucracy. On the other hand, what this points to, in my opinion, is a complete failure of leadership. What do you say?

JINDAL: I agree. And the point in writing the op-ed wasn't to point fingers, but to say we have a lot of work to do. Let's get rid of that bureaucracy moving forward.

We've taken some small steps for it. You know, we passed bills to help students who had to suspend their studies because of the hurricane. We passed bills to help families on TANIF (ph) to get around some of the bureaucracy.

But even now, for example, people are going into shelters and saying, here is your Red Cross debit card. Here is your FEMA debit card. Here is your food stamp debit card. Here is your unemployment benefits debit card. That's four different cards. Why not consolidate that? Why...

M. O'BRIEN: Well, they're not even getting the cards. They're not even getting the cards. It's some people are getting them, some people aren't. I hear that they have to sign a waiver saying they won't ask for any additional aid. Who is going to want to do that? There are all kinds of...

JINDAL: Well...

M. O'BRIEN: It's just a complete warren of difficulty for people who have been put out of their homes, their jobs, their lives.

JINDAL: Absolutely. At one point, the plan was to go and tell people to call a 1-800-number or go to the Web page. You're talking to thousands of people living in shelters. They don't have computers. They don't have the ability to do this. We had to argue strongly to tell them, send counselors with forms. Send people that can go and help.

I think what's happened is too many agencies, both federal and state level, are responding as if this was a normal situation. This is an extraordinary situation. In the beginning, people's lives were at stake. Now, you've got people who need help getting their children into schools, need help paying their bills, need help knowing what's going to happen with their mortgages. Where are they going to live?

A lot of people left with the clothes on their back. Their homes are gone. We have to cut through the red tape and realize this is extraordinary. Sometimes we're going to have to ask for forgiveness later instead of permission. We have to have a sense of urgency at the very frontlines that says, this is about helping people.

Now, we need to be careful we just don't throw money at the problem. That's not always the answer. We don't want to create massive opportunities for fraud. But we need to make it easier for people who have lost everything to get back on their feet, go back to work, and to give their kids more security and a good education.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it just compounds the disaster in so many ways. And it seems to me what is really lacking here is a single point of leadership. The analogy that comes up time and again here in New York is a Rudy Giuliani type of character. That sort of character has not emerged there.

You've been among the people. And I would agree with you on this one. Colin Powell, why not bring him in as the Katrina czar?

JINDAL: Absolutely. I've said all along at the very beginning we need a single person. I've suggested Colin Powell in specific. It doesn't have to be him. There are certainly many others that have that same background. I happen to like the fact that he's got a military, a logistical background.

I think what you need is somebody who can be not only in charge and has the responsibility, but the authority to get things done. Somebody who can cut through the red tape that can make the decisions.

You know, the military has been so effective on the ground in Louisiana and in general, because they have a unified chain of command. They have a goals-oriented culture. They don't worry about, well, page 23 says we have to do it this way. They know they've got a mission to accomplish. They do it. And then they go back and try to document what they needed to do. We don't have that attitude.

And it's not just the people at the top. It's the people at the front line. It's the person who would think to tell a mayor looking for food, well, I'm going to put you on hold, I'm going to write a memo. Literally today, I'm going throughout the district delivering private aid.

S often we've been so frustrated with the bureaucracy we've gone to private companies, to churches to provide medical supplies, food, water, energy. Well, you know, the private sector has filled in the gaps, but the private sector alone can't do everything. But they've been fantastic. They've been flexible and quick to respond.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, it makes a lot of us wonder if the whole thing shouldn't be privatized. I say that somewhat facetiously. We don't want to make a FEMA mart. But the fact is Wal-Mart has done a much better job than FEMA in responding. Why?

JINDAL: Well, you're exactly right. I've got -- you know, you picked Wal-Mart in particular. I have got parish presidents and others that said one of the reasons they survived those first few days is local companies and companies like Wal-Mart, national companies opened their doors. They said take what you need.

Now, think about that. They didn't say we're worried about inventory. They didn't say you were going to have to compensate us. They didn't say, well, I don't have permission from Arkansas or from corporate headquarters. They said, if this is what it takes to get the job done, do it.

Today, we're delivering four trucks. We'll be delivering Dodge trucks later. We used private helicopters and planes to deliver medical supplies, fuel to hospitals and others that hadn't even seen a federal or state official. And many times, we were able to deliver private sector aid that was the first aid on the scene days after the hurricane hit.

I think in a private sector often -- not always, but often -- you've got that goals-oriented, that ends-oriented attitude, again, that you see in the military. That's why I think having a single person that's in charge that you get, so you can get beyond this finger-pointing.

What I don't think is helpful is to have the state say to the feds, well, you didn't respond quickly enough, to have the feds say to the state, you didn't ask early enough. You know, the people on the ground don't care. They just need their needs taken care of. They don't have time to worry who is to blame. They don't have time to worry about who is taking credit. They don't have time to worry about who filled out the correct form.

And what they worry about is, I've got kids that are going to miss a semester of school. I'm about to have a house I don't know if it's still standing or not. Are they going to repossess it? How am I going to get my Social Security check? That's what they're worried about.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, that's what they're worried about. Let's do whatever we can to get those needs answered. I know you're busy working on that. I'm sure you're hearing from a lot of your constituents. And we wish you well on that.

JINDAL: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Louisiana Congressman Bobby Jindal, thanks again for being with us -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Miles, thanks.

As the sun is about to rise really, we want to show you some pictures now that's a little more daylight here of the members of the Oregon National Guard getting ready for their day with their light- armored vehicles. At least half-a-dozen or so are parked right in front of the aquarium, where they have now been stationed.

About an hour-and-a-half hour east of here is Biloxi, Mississippi; 200,000 people there are still without power.

Allan Chernoff joins this morning with more on their situation.

Good morning -- Allan.

ALLAN CHERNOFF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Soledad, yesterday the vice president speaking about 12 miles away from here in Gulfport said that the country is going to be rebuilding the Gulf Coast. And as you can see behind me, there is quite a bit of rebuilding to be done.

This used to be the Biloxi Port Commission. In the distance, you can see the remains of some hotels that jutted right out into the Gulf. A parking structure over there. And the work is well under way here.

As you can see, the heavy equipment is here. This is military equipment.

Over the past few days, they've been clearing out the debris. Where I'm standing just a couple of days ago, piles of debris. So now it's been pushed aside.

But being here is really like a mix of being in a war zone right after military action, and also being in the warehouse of a Home Depot, because along that road, all day long we're going to be seeing convoys of lumber coming by, steel, all sorts of construction equipment needed to start to get this place back in order. So, there's really just a tremendous amount of work to be done.

It's also very important to note that aside from the essential structures, there are important memorials that have to be attended to. Of course, this will be done at a much later date. But this right here is Biloxi's War Memorial, and you can see the force of the storm. Look at this slab. I don't know how many tons this weighed, but that slab had been up here. And there's another one right over here. So the storm just knocked these guys right down.

And on a more touching note even, these are some of the heroes of Biloxi, veterans of the Korean War, the Vietnam War. And as you can see, a few of the names, a few of the pictures are missing. And eventually, I'm sure Biloxi will return those pictures to their place of honor -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Allan Chernoff in Biloxi for us this morning. Allan, thanks.

First Lady Laura Bush was able to get out and survey some of the hurricane damage in Mississippi. She took the time in a radio interview to blast those who say that race played a role in the government's response to Hurricane Katrina.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: And I think all of those remarks were disgusting, to be perfectly frank, because, of course, President Bush cares about everyone in our country. And I know that. I mean, I'm the person who lives with him. I know what he's like, and I know what he thinks. And I know how he cares about people.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: The first lady said it's clear that, in fact, it was poor people who were most affected by Katrina's wrath. And she said this should be a wake-up call for the nation to address the issue of poverty.

Let's get back to New York now and Carol Costello, who has a look at some of the other stories that are making news today.

Good morning -- Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad. Good morning to all of you.

"Now in the News."

The Baghdad International Airport could soon be reopened. The airport had shut down earlier today after a private British company that provides security walked out of the facility. The company says it hasn't been paid for the last seven months. Iraqi officials are expected to send in Iraqi troops to take over.

Shutdown doesn't affect military flight operations. Some 3,700 troops from the Louisiana National Guard will leave Iraq to help with Katrina relief efforts. The entire 256th Brigade will be flown home over the next two weeks. Louisiana Guard officials say 80 percent of the unit's soldiers lost homes or jobs. And some have not heard from their relatives since the storm hit.

A CNN "Security Watch" now. An American student has been charged with plotting to kill President Bush. Prosecutors say 24-year-old Ahmed Omar Abu Ali planned to either use multiple snipers or to blow up the president in a suicide bombing. He's also accused of planning to hijack and destroy commercial aircraft. '

Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

And Ophelia was downgraded to a tropical storm earlier this morning, but the storm now about 150 miles east of Daytona Beach, Florida. It could gain strength again. But who knows? Because the models are crazy.

Let's head to Chad to further explain.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: We want to tell you the story of the folks who have decided that they are not going to stay in spite of the mandatory evacuation order. You'll recall on Thursday, you met Delia Labarre. She told us that she has no interest in leaving and invited us, in fact, to come and see her home after the show, which is exactly what we did.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN (voice over): Delia Labarre has water and candles, a hurricane lantern, a gas stove and a hardy constitution.

DELIA LABARRE, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: The gas. It's very nice to have gas. S. O'BRIEN: She's refusing to leave her house in New Orleans Warehouse District.

LABARRE: We were high and dry. It never came up at all. W never saw water on this street.

S. O'BRIEN: And she's angry -- no, make that furious about the mayor's plan to forcibly evacuate all of the residents of New Orleans.

LABARRE: There was no real plan to evacuate. So I don't think -- it's difficult to trust that there is any plan to revitalize the city.

S. O'BRIEN: She spends her days cleaning up after Hurricane Katrina. The sandbags in her courtyard lie useless. The water never got that high.

Delia says local citizens have the right to have a say in the future of their city, and local leaders, like Mayor Ray Nagin, have had the wrong priorities.

LABARRE: If they had been as obsessed with an evacuation plan in protecting the people as they were with the Saints and whether or not we were going to keep a professional football team, this would not have happened.

S. O'BRIEN: Delia is even convinced she's got legal grounds to fight her evacuation.

LABARRE: Just thinking about it, you know? I know, and I feel for them, and I understand completely, because there are worse things than death. And people do have a choice. I think, you know, even at this point, because they have failed miserably.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Now, Miles, when you go to Delia's house and you see how she is living, which is fairly comfortably, with running water. Granted she doesn't have electricity, but she's got batteries for a little TV and batteries for a radio and communications. You do sort of wonder if she is the kind of person who should be moved into a shelter if all of the folks whose homes were not devastated, who did not have to wade through water to get out of their front doors, actually are living pretty well -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, and I'm sure, Soledad, a lot of people watching that and say, what's the matter with her staying there? What is the city line on this? Why does she have to go? she is high and dry and self-sufficient.

S. O'BRIEN: The city line has been that every single person has to leave the city. That there is an evacuation order, and it applies to everyone is what she's been told.

M. O'BRIEN: But the truth is, you know, if she is truly self- sufficient, which she appears to be, by leaving she becomes a burden to somebody. And so, in a sense, you would think they'd want to allow people like that to stay on if they could.

S. O'BRIEN: And not only does she become a burden to a shelter or, you know, take a space that maybe somebody could use in the shelter, in addition to that you have the issue of securing all of those homes now that are nice homes that have valuables that have not been destroyed by the storm. Someone has to monitor what's in that house -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: I suspect Delia -- well, I wouldn't say she'll put up a fight, but she won't go easily, will she?

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, I asked her that. I said, what do you do if someone actually forces you to go, I mean, is going to handcuff you and drag you out? And she said, well, you know, she doesn't imagine that scenario, and she hopes the city leaders can use their imagination as well in thinking of a better solution than what's being proposed and put forward now -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, maybe something will arise. Let's hope so. Soledad, thank you. Back with you in a just little bit.

Still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, Andy will tell us how you can turn your unused sick days into relief for victims of Katrina. Stay with us for that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Sunrise in New Orleans. You know, I've got a lot of unused vacation. This summer has been a busy summer. So I could do something with that to help out folks?

ANDY SERWER, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: You can. You can. The IRS, Miles, is setting up a program that will allow you to donate unused vacation time and sick days to the victims of Hurricane Katrina. They actually had a program like this after 9/11. It wasn't publicized, and it wasn't used that much. Let's hope it's different this time.

Here's how it works. Your company, first of all, has to set up this program that allows a leave base donation. And then, let's say you make, say, around $50,000 a year, $200 a day. What happens is you would take the day off. It would amount to an unpaid day off. Right? The $200 then would be reduced. Your income would be reduced.

So you would pay less taxes, OK? Because that $200 would be given by your company to, say, the Red Cross. Now, the company, of course, would get a tax deduction on that $200.

So you get the day off. Your income is reduced. Two hundred dollars is donated to the relief.

M. O'BRIEN: But you don't...

SERWER: And the company gets a tax deduction.

M. O'BRIEN: You don't get the tax deduction?

SERWER: No, but your income is reduced...

M. O'BRIEN: OK.

SERWER: Because you're getting -- it's an unpaid day of vacation time.

M. O'BRIEN: OK.

SERWER: So I think it's a pretty good deal. It works out pretty well.

M. O'BRIEN: That's a good deal, yes.

SERWER: Let's talk about the markets a little bit. Yesterday stocks gave up some ground after two days of moving upward, you can see here. The price of oil didn't decline yesterday. That's basically why stocks slipped a little bit. And futures are up this morning.

I want to clarify one point we made in an earlier segment. The Mars program -- the Mars platform, I should say, run by Shell may not be up next year. Unclear about whether it may be operational.

M. O'BRIEN: Couch that a little bit more?

SERWER: Exactly.

M. O'BRIEN: Andy Serwer, thank you.

SERWER: OK.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, survivors of Katrina get their first up-close look at the damage at home. We'll meet a couple now trying to rebuild their house, their business and their lives. A long road ahead for them. Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: A look at the aquarium this morning. New Orleans, though, is closed for business. Most estimates are between 5,000 and 10,000 people still remain in the city of New Orleans.

This morning, we hear from Dan Lothian about a couple that's trying to save their business in Jefferson parish, even though they have no customers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): New Orleans is still mostly under water, and the pain of this disaster is equally deep.

DAVE DELGER, DIVE SHOP OWNER: It's like living in a dream world.

LOTHIAN: Dave and Sunday Delger have owned this Jefferson parish dive shop for 14 years, selling equipment, giving lessons and taking customers on exotic trips.

D. DELGER: My major damage is wind. Water damage is back here.

LOTHIAN: They never thought Katrina would have hit them so hard, even though the couple had heard repeated warnings of the Big One since grade school.

D. DELGER: You know, we grew up with that, but we've always avoided it. We've missed it, so to speak. But this one here was the Big One.

SUNDAY DELGER, DIVE SHOP OWNER: We were in denial. We really didn't believe it would happen.

LOTHIAN: Their business is heavily damaged. Their nearby home nearly destroyed.

D. DELGER: You know, it looks like a mini war zone in there.

LOTHIAN: They are now living with a relative in a town a few miles away.

D. DELGER: We'll stretch it out and see what we got.

LOTHIAN: Even as they make temporary repairs to the roof of their dive shop, the Delgers worry it may be harder to get back their customers than their utilities.

(on camera): People won't have money to go diving.

D. DELGER: People won't have money to go diving. They're too busy building their homes and their businesses.

S. DELGER: How long can we hold out without people coming in and shopping with us?

D. DELGER: This is our income. If this shop doesn't run and doesn't operate, then we have no other income.

LOTHIAN (voice over): In addition to all the hurdles they face in rebuilding, there's another thing. Sunday was to have undergone surgery on a damaged vocal cord at a hospital here in downtown New Orleans. Obviously, the procedure has been postponed indefinitely. And Sunday has absolutely no idea where her doctor is.

But this couple says it won't be defeated. After all, this town is where they were both born. This is home.

D. DELGER: We'll build. We'll come back.

LOTHIAN: Dan Lothian, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

S. O'BRIEN: Louisiana's insurance commissioner says that, in fact, the major insurers of the state will actually be able to have the sufficient money to pay all of the claims to the victims of Katrina.

Much more ahead this morning as we come to you live from downtown New Orleans. We're going to come back with a special report on AMERICAN MORNING. Stay with us.

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