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DIPLOMATIC LICENSE

Current Events at the United Nations

Aired September 16, 2005 - 21:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KOFI ANNAN, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: But let us be frank with each other and with the peoples of the United Nations. We have not yet achieved this sweeping and fundamental reform that I and many others believe is required.

GEORGE BUSH, U.S. PRESIDENT: The United Nations must be strong and efficient, free of corruption and accountable to the people it serves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): If we are going to accept this, then we are lost. Let's just turn off the lights and close the doors and close the windows. It will be the last thing we do if we accept this leadership here in this room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ROTH, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. I'm Richard Roth at the 60th Anniversary United Nations World Summit here in New York.

Just because the outcome of three days of mayhem around here was disappointing to some, that's no reason why we can't talk about it. But first, a visual taste of events here, and it was pretty wild; 151 heads of government and state, delegations totaling almost 5,000 people and 2,000 members of the media following it all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stand and observe one minute of silent prayer or meditation.

BUSH: As we fight, the terrorists must know the world stands united against them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The objective of this meeting was held hostage through tortuous manipulation. Those who fancy themselves the world's owners do not even want to remember those promises and the hypocritical fanfare with which they were proclaimed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is on the agenda today?

JOHN BOLTON, U.S. AMB. TO U.N.: More meetings, what else.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you tell us about your meeting today with the Iranians?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In politics, as in sports, you never declare success or failure until the game and the debate is over.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Transgression and enmity, the god who guided great prophets, including Moses and Jesus and the last of the prophets, Mohammad.

BOB GELDOF, MUSIC PRODUCER: The pornography of poverty that parades across our screens every night, who do I name? Who do I shame? Can the Japanese and the Americans and the Canadians and everyone else put a little bit more in the pot? Yeah. Can the United Kingdom? Of course. Everyone can. The shame is ours. The name is the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to thank you very much. Thank you. You did very well.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGO CHAVEZ, VENEZUELAN PRESIDENT (through translator): It was 3201 of May 1974. The new economic order was to change the old economic order that was designed in Breton Woods. I think the president of the United States spoke for 20 minutes here yesterday. That's what I was told. So, president, I would ask for your indulgence for me to be able to finish my statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: Don't rush me, says Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez. It seems that President Bush got to go much longer, but that was because he was on stage in his capacity of the leader of the host country here at the United Nations. Chavez went on for some 20 minutes, but me did get more applause at the end.

We've put up the applause sign for an international array of journalists joining us here on DIPLOMATIC LICENSE. The home team, of course, represented by James Bone of the "Times of London" newspaper. Also with us, standing outside the United Nations, is Daniel Makokera, of South African Broadcasting. He is the anchor and producer of a nightly program called "60 Minutes Live" and a weekend show called "The Ambassadors." We would have material for him, of course.

Also joining us is Ghida Fakhry of the "Asharq Al-Awsat " newspaper, published in London. And also outside the United Nations, Gerald Baars of ARD-German television.

Welcome to all of you.

James Bone, an initial impression of the VIP portion of the summit.

JAMES BONE, "TIMES OF LONDON": Well, Richard, the first thing that happened in this summit was that President Bush arrived and was introduced to Kofi Annan by his new ambassador at the United Nations, John Bolton, a very controversial choice. And President Bush was joshing around with Kofi Annan and he said, "Is he behaving himself," about John Bolton. And then he said rather shockingly, or rather in bad taste, "Has the place blown up since he got here."

And, you know, that little incident, which was caught on camera, does give you a sense of President Bush's attitude to the United Nations and the reputation of John Bolton.

ROTH: Yes, it does.

Let's get some more international perspective from some of our newcomers.

Gerald Baars, of ARD-German television, what is your sense?

GERALD BAARS, ARD-GERMAN TV: Very disappointing, because everybody expected in Europe a big package of reforms at the United Nations. Germany in particular expected also reform of the Security Council with better representative expansion of the Council. The last thing -- it happen all already ahead of the summit and many, many of the other targets of the summit have been erased or have been weakened, in particular thanks to this guy who has been mentioned already before, John Bolton.

GHIDA FAKHRY, "ASHARQ AL-AWSAT": I think the mistake that many made, also, Richard, was that too much time and too much attention was spent on trying to find a solution to what is extremely needed at the United Nations. That is Security Council reform. But that, a lot of people by now know, that it is very hard to achieve. And so a lot of the focus was taken from the other important issues on the schedule, the agenda, of the world leaders.

ROTH: Daniel Makokera, your president there, in South Africa, was quite bitter in his remarks about the document and the real outcome of this summit.

DANIEL MAKOKERA, SOUTH AFRICAN BROADCASTING: Indeed Richard, and he does respect a constituency, and this constituency is Africa. And I think the sense here of Africans is when you get countries of the north talking about dictators relinquishing power from the governments that they have taken over in Africa, you would want also to see the P5 doing that. And the sense people are getting from Africa is that the P5 is not yet ready.

ROTH: James Bone, go ahead.

BONE: I hate to kill the sport, but there was actually one notable achievement amid all the many failures of this summit, and the notable achievement was the declaration on the responsibility to protect, the responsibility to mount humanitarian intervention, to save populations when their own governments aren't protecting them from mass slaughter, genocide, crimes against humanity, ethnic cleansing.

And then I think when we look back at this summit in 10 years time, that will probably be the single achievement of this summit.

FAKHRY: I think a lot of people are losing sight that this summit was initially intended to be a five year review of the millennium goals that were set at the Millennium Summit back five years ago. And what has happened now, it has been hijacked and it has been deviated into other issues, such as the reform of the United Nations system itself, which has not materialized.

ROTH: And when you're talking about genocide and mass murder, the Security Council still is not really ready to act, as witnessed by what happened in Sudan.

What about the overall tone here at this United Nations -- I mean when you get so many world leaders here, what really happens at a summit like that? What is the perspective, Gerald, for you here?

BAARS: They talked a lot about -- here they talked a lot about fighting terrorism without mentioning that the best way to fight terrorism and create a safer world is to fight poverty and to close the big gap between rich and poor because if you are poor and in despair you are more open for violent and fundamentalist ideas and ideologies. And that's where they lost the track.

BONE: On development, there was basically a standstill on existing commitments. Bob Geldof, the Live Aid campaigner and former Boomtown Rat for those of you interested in music, came up and said that he gave the summit a four out of ten on development.

On the other hand, on security, no agreement at all of disarmament and nonproliferation, key areas, totally dropped from the summit document.

BAARS: That is really a disgrace, James, as the secretary-general said, because, I mean, we had this example of the escalation in the conflict with Iran at the same time here at the summit. I mean, how can we avoid other countries to develop nuclear technology as long as the United States, for instance, insists on the right to develop new nuclear weapons, and therefore erase a complete chapter on nonproliferation and disarmament?

MAKOKERA: It seems that it wasn't a meeting of minds when you looked at the countries of the north and the south and, of course, talking mainly on Africa. Africa is saying yes, we want to fight poverty, but look at what has happened in most countries that have not, for obvious reasons, like the DRC, like Sierra Leone and their diamonds, like Angola with its oil. There is always conflict. Now help us develop -- let's develop, and as long as we make sure that everybody has resources and a critical sharing of those resources, you're not going to have people fighting about it. Conflicts will be lessened. And I think that's where the African thinking is coming from.

FAKHRY: Another important issue that was not mentioned, James, you mentioned the fact that the section on nonproliferation was completely left out of the document, but there is also the issue of how to curb the use of force by the Security Council. It's as though the Iraq War has never happened. The was no mention about this one particular issue, and all the details on the other important issues of the day, such as deciding to set forth a human rights counsel and a commission for peace building, all the details have not been dealt with at this stage. I think there will be much more negotiations for this sector.

BONE: Richard, I know you like baseball metaphors. You know, this whole summit exercise dates back to a speech Kofi Annan made two years ago when he said the United Nations was at a fork in the road. Well, as the American baseball coach Yogi Berra once said, when you come to a fork in the road, take it.

Well, I think this week the United Nations took the fork in the road. We just don't know which direction we're going in.

ROTH: I agree, and I don't even like utensils when I'm eating. But was this conference a huge failure for Kofi Annan? Gerald and Daniel, take a shot at that.

MAKOKERA: Well, Richard, I think we do know that the secretary- general is serving his last term, and besides just having a big photo left in the corridors of the United Nations buildings, he wanted a Kofi thumbprint that would be left on this. And I think from his speech you can tell that he doesn't seem to see that coming through during his term.

BAARS: But the United Nations are only as strong as the nations are really united. And Kofi Annan as secretary-general is an honorable guy who really tried his best. Since the Millennium Summit five years ago he really worked hard. It is very disappointing to see how the corruption scandal was, for instance, used to bash integrity and other ideals he has in mind. And I think so many missed opportunities this time. And I really wonder why it could happen and what is the intention, because if we don't make progress soon -- I mean, this is the time to make progress --

(CROSSTALK)

MAKOKERA: Just to add to what Gerald is saying, Richard, if I may just come in for a minute -- Richard.

(CROSSTALK)

FAKHRY: It might have been that the ceiling was too high, that Kofi Annan might have made the mistake for asking for too many ambitious reforms. Back in March when he put together (UNINTELLIGIBLE) freedom, this report of ambitious reform of his, he did ask that they all be taken as a package and that they even be voted on. And I think a lot of the delegations have given their answers, which were very clear, and they were not willing to do so, and we need more time to negotiate.

MAKOKERA: America is being viewed here as again bullying the United Nations. If you think of that Oil For Food scandal in Iraq, some people are saying there is a right wing media in the United States that is really concentrated on making sure that there is this blackening of the Kofi Annan name. And therefore, of course, some people are saying maybe again it's the United States. They are saying that this body does not want to listen to us, so we'll make sure that --

BONE: You both are talking like people who haven't read the Volcker report. I suggest to you and to your colleagues and to the viewers that they go on the Internet and they read the Volcker report before they start making pronouncements --

(CROSSTALK)

ROTH: Hold on. Ghida, you asked Kofi Annan a question about Senator Coleman, who was in the building last Friday and who has already called for Kofi Annan to resign, and you elicited perhaps his most pointed comments on Oil For Food. Tell our viewers, please.

FARADAY: I asked him if he thought that the suggestions -- the remarks made by Senator Coleman when he visited the United Nations, in which he said that reform seemingly cannot happen as long as the leadership in this building remains the same. I said how did he react to that. And obviously he said that Norm Coleman was not his problem. I thought that he seemed to suggest that you are the problem, not the solution. And he refused to take all of them.

ROTH: He said that Norm Coleman is not my problem, and then when someone else asked him, Benny Avni (ph) asked him about Oil For Food, he said let's move on, chap.

Go ahead, take it away, anyone, on Oil For Food, Annan and where we go.

BONE: I think that "move on my dear chap" was one of the most irritable and patronizing and detached Kofi Annans I have seen in many years, and it just gives you an example of how defensive he is on this scandal, which is continuing to unfold as we speak.

Former U.N. officials are now being called down to talk to U.S. prosecutors. Some of the figures in the Oil For Food scandal even during the summit were rotated out of their jobs in the procurement department. This thing is continuing.

(CROSSTALK)

ROTH: Gerald Baars, of German television, go ahead.

BAARS: I want to make another point. I have read all three Volcker reports --

BONE: Four Volcker reports.

BAARS: -- four, yes.

ROTH: And there is another one coming next month. Go ahead -- Gerald.

BAARS: Yes, I know. But I want to point out, I mean, there is corruption and bribing in any big administration. It is the same also in the U.S. administration and have cases like that and you have also American companies doing things, bribing and trying to corrupt people.

Annan had a problem in the United Nations, no question, but to use this problem, which you have in any city hall in the world, to use that and try to bash the ideals of the United Nations and try to use that --

ROTH: What is going to happen to Kofi Annan if he doesn't serve out his term? You know, the Polish president who, when his term ends, he was making noises in the building this week that perhaps he's not, about that idea of maybe being the next secretary-general instead of an Asia rep. Has anyone heard anything on that?

FAKHRY: Perhaps Kofi Annan might himself consider running for president in Ghana when the elections come up. But what is sure for now, he is maintaining that he is going to stay until the end of his term. One wonders how efficient he is going to be when he is coming under so much pressure.

Oil For Food has put so much pressure on the secretary-general to come up with this reform proposal, but I don't think it is the kind of outcome document he was looking for.

ROTH: We're going to have to call a timeout to our international panel. Thank you all very much. First of all, we're going to thank James Bone of the "Times of London" newspaper. Also with us, standing outside the United Nations, Daniel Makokera, South African Broadcasting. He's the anchor and producer of a show called "60 Minutes Live," and also a weekend program, "The Ambassadors." And also with us, Ghida Fakhry of "Asharq al- Awsat" newspaper, published in London. And Gerald Baars is U.N. bureau chief and senior U.N. correspondent for ARD-German television.

You know, everybody wants something from someone, even here at the United Nations summit. Nigeria's President Obasanjo was asked what African countries are willing to give up to get debt relief.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OLUSEGUN OBASANJO, NIGERIAN PRESIDENT: Some countries in Africa have virtually no assets at all. So what are you asking them to give up? The only thing they can give up is life and that would be committing genocide. So they have nothing to give up and that is why we are asking the world, as Bob said, that the world should live up to its responsibility in respect of these countries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GELDOF: It's really odd. You know, I sort of feel like a Martian has landed on earth. In fact, I'm an earthling who has landed on an alternative universe, you know. And there is a level of (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Everyone agrees not to say things. There are many countries here that I would profoundly disagree with. It's really interesting, looking at some despots in a room, and they're all -- everyone is like schoolchildren in a classroom, you know, and everyone is talking and not behaving and the level of noise while these preeminent politicians are speaking, and everyone is just muttering and walking out and, you know, chatting. It's odd. And I was just hoping that I wouldn't be seated at a table with some thug because I would have to say you're a disgrace, and all hell would break lose. But luckily they put me at some anodyne table.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROTH: That's Live Aid and Live 8 organizer and activist Bob Geldof on being here at the U.N. 60th Anniversary World Summit and at a luncheon with most of the world leaders.

Of course, one of Bob Geldof's songs with the Boomtown Rats was "I Don't Like Mondays." Well, President Bush could have been singing "I don't like sitting in the Security Council on Wednesday for a very long session." An alert photographer, it seems, used a long lens to capture the contents of a top secret note written by the president at the United Nations. Well, maybe it wasn't technically top secret, but it was the kind of secret even a president couldn't hold in.

CNN's Jeannie Moos reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNIE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is lots of paper passing at the United Nations, but when the president of the United States passes a note while seated at the Security Council table, well, a Reuters photographer with a long lens couldn't pass it up.

Not since John Kerry scribbled such copious note during the first presidential debate has a note been so noted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So the Iraqi people can choose their own destiny.

MOOS: Noted, and lampooned.

JOHN STEWART, "DAILY SHOW" HOST: What was he writing?

MOOS (on camera): But what was the president writing to his secretary of state? Was it about U.N. reform? Was it about the latest U.N. terrorism resolution?

BUSH: Each of us must have to share information.

MOOS (voice-over): But the president didn't mean to share this information. "I think I may need a bathroom break. Is this possible?"

Next thing you know, between speakers, the president gets up and Condoleezza Rice temporarily takes his place.

Still, getting nabbed passing a bathroom note isn't as bad as getting busted for doing a crossword puzzle at Judge Roberts' confirmation hearings, as Oklahoma Republican Senator Tom Coburn did.

The Bush note has been whizzing around the Internet. It sort of reminds us of Saddam Hussein's first interrogation after he was pulled out of that spider hole. When offered a glass of water by his interrogator, Saddam replied, "If I drink water, I will have to go to the bathroom, and how can I use the bathroom when my people are in bondage."

But refraining from drinking isn't easy to do when you're in bondage at the United Nations.

For DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, I'm Jeannie Moos.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROTH: Thanks, Jeannie.

I've got to go. I mean really, literally. We're out of time. That is DIPLOMATIC LICENSE, from here at the 60th Anniversary World Summit in New York. Thanks for watching.

END

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