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CNN Sunday Night
Hurricane Katrina Recovery Operation: Interview with Douglas Brinkley; Interview with Leo Bosner
Aired September 16, 2005 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN HOST: Anderson, the headline in today's paper, the "Seacoast Echo," "Gone to the Dogs, Veterinarians from around the nation come to help Hancock's animals." The "Seacoast Echo." Since 1892, they say, "We're still here. And they are."
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: More than ever, Aaron, more than ever.
Thanks for that. Good evening again everyone, from New Orleans the nights still are a lot darker around here. There's actually been a thunderstorm and rain. The first one - first time it's rained here in New Orleans since Katrina. It is much quieter, perhaps, then it has been ever before. The calamity that struck a couple of weeks ago still so fresh in people's minds. There are, however, unmistakable signs of recovery as well. We decided to count flaring tempers as a sign of recovery tonight, on the ground that people only get feisty when they're done despairing. We'll have more on today's flaring tempers a little later. Aaron?
BROWN: Anderson, raised voices and a whistleblower, too, in the hour ahead. A 26-year veteran of the Federal Emergency Management Agency talks about his deep frustration about how unready his agency was, even to use its own people who were standing by ready and willing to help.
COOPER: Aaron, we're also going to have the story of a town that suffered terribly during the hurricane and the flooding and now is suffering all over again from neglect. But first, here's a look at what's happening right now at this moment. Let's take a look.
At this moment, miraculously, the saving of lives is still going on. This happened today in New Orleans. A man who may have been isolated weeks ago when the floodwaters first submerged the city was finally reached and airlifted to safety.
So lifesaving continues, but so does the counting of the dead. The toll in the Gulf states now stands at 812, 218 in Mississippi and in Louisiana, 579.
Former President Bill Clinton appearing this evening on LARRY KING LIVE, had some sound advice. He suggested that any future head of FEMA should have, quote, "prior experience in emergency management." How about that. End quote.
And the FBI has established a tip line to allow the public to report instances of fraud and corruption in connection to the Katrina recovery effort. The number is 1-800-CALL-FBI or 1-800-225-5324.
We started the evening talking about flaring tempers being a sign of recovery. Maybe that's perhaps going a little too far. Still, where up to now there hasn't been so much as quiet weeping, so much us stunned silence, we have seen - where so many have seemed so numb, it doesn't seem so bad to hear some raised voices again. There is, after all, a lot to argue about in this decimated part of the world, and the arguing has certainly begun.
CNN's Jason Carroll reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Kenner, Louisiana, a city of about 70,000 in a devastated area of Jefferson Parish. On Friday, an argument caught on tape between the city's police chief and the city's manager symbolized the frustration and anger from a community in need of help.
NICK CONGEMI, KENNER POLICE CHIEF: You talk about the meals - where's the housing for these people? That's what you're supposed to be providing. The meals are easy ...
CEDRIC FLOYD, KENNER CITY MANAGER: Guess what, all you're doing is making a political scene.
CONGEMI: No, I'm not making a political scene.
FLOYD: Don't get in my face.
CONGEMI: I'm making a scene for the starvation of these people and you can ...
FLOYD: Guess what? Do something about it, then, chief.
CARROLL: A fight over food and housing complicated by race.
CONGEMI: But tell the truth. The truth is you don't want these people here. You're trying to run them off and that's what this is really about.
FLOYD: Chief, chief, I'm a minority.
CONGEMI: You discriminate, you're a rich minority.
FLOYD: You, too.
CONGEMI: You don't live like the rest of these people.
FLOYD: Guess what?
CONGEMI: Well, if you're a minority, come and live with these people.
FLOYD: Every day the city government ... CONGEMI: You have not provided - you run off your mouth about how much you care about these people and you don't give them anything. As a matter of fact, you've got 500 families displaced and you all are happy with the 500 families that have been displaced. Otherwise you would have done like you've done for your minorities and put these people in gymnasiums where they have air conditioning.
FLOYD: We don't have any shelters.
CONGEMI: You don't have any shelters? What are those buildings?
CARROLL: Clara Lopez is tired of the bickering. She lives at the Redwood Apartments where the argument took place. Some call it a city within a city. Most of the 400 residents are now homeless but they're forced to stay at the badly damaged apartments because they have nowhere else to go.
Lopez speaks for the large number of Hispanics here who say they are being ignored.
CLARA LOPEZ, KENNER RESIDENT: We need a house.
CARROLL (on camera): You need a house?
LOPEZ: Mm-hmm.
CARROLL: Now, FEMA came here once, right?
LOPEZ: Yes, once.
CARROLL: And what did they say.
LOPEZ: Nothing, nothing. Just about five minutes. He's coming back, but I don't know when.
CARROLL: They said they'd come back ...
LOPEZ: Come back, yes.
CARROLL: Did they come back?
LOPEZ: No come back, no.
CARROLL: They haven't done that?
LOPEZ: No.
CARROLL: So what are you doing?
LOPEZ: We're just waiting.
CARROLL (voice-over): Miguel Ramos says FEMA may be trying but needs to do much more.
MIGUEL RAMOS, KENNER RESIDENT: We have a little community here, as people here, we should have someplace to stay. We shouldn't be forgotten.
CARROLL: Both city officials left, still angry. Residents say FEMA left too, but without really helping. So people like Clara wait, hoping to have better shelter, soon.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Kenner, Louisiana.
(ENDVIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: We're going to go to Kenner next week to find out exactly what's going on. We spoke earlier this evening with one of the men involved with that passionate disagreement. You just saw Kenner Police Chief Nick Congemi, also with the Kenner Chief of Staff Phil Ramone, he works for the mayor's office there. He is a superior - the superior of the official whom Nick Congemi is arguing with.
You are going to hear Chief Congemi first talking about what caused the argument, in his view.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CONGEMI: I felt they were being forgotten. This was a group of people whose homes had been destroyed, whose apartments had been destroyed. And the city was taking a position that they were providing food. Well, food and water and ice is very simple. I was asking that the city provide these people with shelter.
It makes no difference how much water, ice, and food you bring to them, they're still out on the street. They need a roof over their head. And I think the city has the capability ...
COOPER: You're representing the city. Why don't they have a roof over their head?
PHIL RAMONE, CHIEF OF STAFF, KENNER CITY ADMIN.: The city has been providing transportation and shelter needs for our entire community. We haven't discriminated against anyone.
COOPER: What about these people, though? Are they ...
RAMONE: Chief Congemi has worked with this administration. We talked about it. And he adamantly opposed opening shelters in the City of Kenner. And Mayor Capitano opened a shelter and worked with Jefferson Parish to maintain two shelters. This community here that was hit, and very unfortunately lost most of their homes and roofs, we have been accommodating them to the best of our need -- best of our ability.
COOPER: What does that mean? Because they're sleeping where they were living.
RAMONE: Providing food, water, and ice. We are looking ...
COOPER: So they don't have a shelter. They don't have a shelter. RAMONE: There is no shelter being operated right now in the City of Kenner. And one of the problems we had in dealing with the shelters is that we did not get adequate police protection. That's not a derogatory remark against the chief. He doesn't have the manpower to provide a ...
COOPER: But it sounds like, frankly, FEMA didn't even discover Kenner exists until last week sometime ...
CONGEMI: That's ridiculous about the police protection. We have plenty of police protection. We have the 175th Military Police from Missouri that's stationed next to us. There's plenty of police protection. There's a lot of people -- you know, there's a misconception about these Hispanic people. The fire department decided to come over today, and they wanted to help dispense the meals, and they were calling us to provide protection.
Well, these are law-abiding citizens. They've never created any problems. They have never created any crimes. They're good people.
COOPER: Well how many people are in need of shelter in Kenner right now? I don't get why, almost three weeks after the storm, there's not a shelter for these people or any other people that want it.
RAMONE: We have been meeting with FEMA trying to get a disaster center opened in the City of Kenner, and we have not been able to do so.
COOPER: Do you buy that, that ...
CONGEMI: It's all bull. We have people -- now, look. If you were standing here right now, and someone told you I'm going to give you food, water, and ice for the next 72 hours but you have to stand out in the elements for the next 30 to 90 days waiting for FEMA or anybody else to put a shelter over you, your family, and your children, I think it's absolutely ridiculous and it's sinful.
And this city government should at least put these people inside of a gymnasium until they decide where they can go from there. These people do not even speak the language. They're totally lost.
COOPER: The manager (ph) in the argument was just saying that the sheriff has political ambitions. Do you believe politics is what's going on here?
RAMONE: I believe this is probably the worst type of politics I've ever witnessed. Chief Congemi and his office has done a fair job. Did a better than average job. But to say that the administration has turned a blind eye to any resident of that community is fact less (ph) and it's really irresponsible. I'm ashamed.
COOPER: Final thought to you.
CONGEMI: Well he's ashamed of everything. The truth of the matter is it has nothing to do with politics. Every time something comes up where there's a deficiency in city government they try to cast it off in some other area, calling it politics or something else. The true fact is, and you know it, is that they do not have shelter for these people. And it has absolutely nothing to do with politics.
COOPER: Well, I tell you what. We'd love to come out next week and drive around with both of you.
RAMONE: The chief ran unsuccessfully against the mayor last year and lost his bid for mayor and he's done ...
COOPER: You say it's politics.
RAMONE: It's politics.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well we're going to go out to Kenner and drive around with both those gentlemen and see what we can see for ourselves. I should also point out, it is raining now, it is lightning and it is thundering and those people in Kenner have no shelter tonight. They are sleeping out there. Most likely a lot of them are getting wet.
So politics or no, we suspect that argument is far from over. We'll look into it next week.
We go to Mississippi now. Nestled between the cities of Biloxi and Gulfport is a little town by the name of D'Iberville. Unless you're from the area, you probably have never heard of it and some residents are concerned that those they need help from have not heard of their town either. CNN's Erica Hill takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Angela Ellzey family still sleeps in the shed behind their house.
ANGELA ELLZEY, D'IBERVILLE RESIDENT: And that's our bathroom and our little toilet paper. That's how we do it. It's sad. I mean, we're not as bad as New Orleans, but we need help just as bad as New Orleans.
HILL: This is their living room. A dirt floor, a blue tarp for a roof. Over here, plastic bags in place of a sewer system. Of course, no one expected damage like this and then afterwards. And perhaps even more surprising, no one thought they'd be living like this three weeks later. But the Ellzeys say this is their only option. In fact, six out of 10 homes here in D'Iberville were destroyed, according to the mayor. And that left some 4,000 people homeless, and they still are.
RUSTY QUAVE, MAYOR OF D'IBERVILLE, MISS.: And for the last two weeks FEMA has promised me trailers or tents. Just give me a pop-up tent for my people to live in. That's the most important thing in this community. HILL: This neighborhood is basically gone. Some folks like Delores and Tom Moore have friends to stay with. But not everyone is so lucky.
RICHARD ROSE, CITY MANAGER, D'IBERVILLE: We don't have a shelter in D'Iberville for any of these people, quite frankly. And that -- they want to be near their homes. That's why the people are not going to these shelters outside of the city.
QUAVE: It's hard to see a family of five living in a car. It's hard to see them living under overpasses, walking the streets.
HILL: Daily life for people up and down the Gulf Coast and the reality of the limits of a system never tested to this degree.
DELORES MOORE, D'IBERVILLE RESIDENT: I'm getting angry. I was upset, but now I'm getting angry.
HILL: Yesterday the mayor met with FEMA officials and was told help is on the way.
QUAVE: I was promised tents yesterday for my people, and when I got over there they said it would be 13 days. I can't wait 13 days. I need tents now for these people to get some type of satisfaction and some kind of -- some kind of end to this terrible tragedy.
HILL (on camera): CNN spoke with FEMA today. The agency said it is working with the governor of Mississippi to better serve the needs of the people here and also working to streamline its response system, which is severely overtaxed.
We've also learned that the Red Cross is opening a shelter here in D'Iberville at the Civic Center and that should happen tomorrow.
Erica Hill, CNN, D'Iberville, Mississippi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Erica, thanks. We're going to continue to work hard to get answers to relief efforts. Of course, a lot of the blame has been put on the former director of FEMA, Michael Brown. Earlier I got some inside perspective from a man named Leo Bosner. He is a 26-year veteran of FEMA, head of its employee union in Washington. He told me that a lot of FEMA workers were ready to help, eager to help, in fact, before and after Katrina hit, but in his opinion, he says they basically felt helpless because management really was not capable of dealing with this storm.
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LEO BOSNER, FEMA UNION OFFICIAL: We had put out several reports in the days leading up to Hurricane Katrina emphasizing what a serious hurricane this was. We published copies of the weather maps from the National Weather service showing this hurricane was going directly at the heart of New Orleans. And from Hurricane Dennis, which had come close to New Orleans in the month previous, everyone was very much aware of the high risk there was going to be of a lot of people, thousands of people who would be stranded there in a catastrophic hurricane.
In my view, and I'm speaking personally, by the way, I'm not representing FEMA. I'm the headquarters -- a long-time employee there and the union president. We had expected that there would be some major, major preparations being done, buses to move the evacuees out, National Guards from around the surrounding states maybe, something like that. And instead the level of preparedness we saw was about the same as what you're seeing right now in the past few days, I think, for Tropical Storm Ophelia which as you know just hit the Carolinas. And of course Tropical Storm Ophelia ...
COOPER: But was it just a question, then, of Mike Brown or was it the upper management? In your opinion who is at fault? Does it just reside with one person?
BOSNER: No. In my opinion under the current -- unfortunately, under the current administration the whole top layer of FEMA, and I don't know, as far as I can tell the top layers of Homeland Security really don't have any emergency management experience.
COOPER: As early as December of 2004 you publicly said that Michael Brown wasn't up for the job. So it's not just a question of you now piling on this guy like a lot of other people seem to be doing now. What was it that you knew then? What do you think made him unqualified? What did you see back then in December?
BOSNER: I feel badly -- look, I have nothing personal against Mike Brown. I feel badly about the guy. But he took a job he was never trained for. The man was a lawyer.
COOPER: I want to read you something. You said all the way back in 1992, you said, "FEMA's biggest problem is that too few people in the agency are trained to help in emergencies. You have a small number of people doing disaster work while the rest of us go back to our desks. We have good soldiers but crummy generals. No more than 30 percent of nearly 1,000 employees in Washington are fully-trained in disaster relief services and those who are trained are underused." That was in 1992 and it sounds like what you're saying it sounds like nothing really has changed.
BOSNER: Actually, it's sort of deja vu all over again. A lot changed. That entire situation did change from 1993 to 1999 or the year 2000 under Mr. Witt's administration there. That situation was addressed. We did establish emergency support teams and emergency response teams. We did get some training for our people.
But what's actually happened is since the year 2000 and even since 9/11 of 2001 we have actually at FEMA in my view, personal view, we have actually slid backwards, we've given up and lost a lot of that staff training and expertise we developed in the '90s, and we have actually slid backward to the 1980s again.
COOPER: Do you get in trouble, though, for speaking out like this?
BOSNER: Actually, most of my colleagues think it's a great thing that I'm doing, and a number of unnamed FEMA senior executives have very quietly thanked me for it because the executives, the career executives and the career staff at FEMA, want to do a good job. Let us do our job, and we'll do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That is what you hear from a lot of people. Let us do our job and we'll do it.
I just want to, Aaron, show you very quickly something that's happened behind me. These are guys from the 6th Division here in New Orleans and they just - they actually stole - the New Orleans police officers, they went over to this other police station which had called itself Fort Apache and they kind of stole the sign back because this is actually the original Fort Apache. It's one of those inter-police rivalries.
But it's a sign, I guess, of a little bit of life coming back. The fact that they can at least kind of kid around with each other and steal signs from one another, it's a sign of, I guess, you could say life coming back, Aaron.
BROWN: Well, when you think of where we were a week ago, a week ago the military was finally getting in. A week ago Friday the military was finally getting in and all that and things were calming down. That's pretty good progress. It's something people can laugh a little.
COOPER: Yeah, and they're laughing tonight, which is nice.
BROWN: Yes it is. I suppose everything in this at some point or another in some people's minds is going to get lost in politics, but we've been talking about what is clearly and what was clearly a lack of readiness on the part of FEMA managers to respond to Katrina. The state and the City of New Orleans didn't exactly shine either and no amount of puzzling and ranting and blaming is going to change the fact that the resources were not there when they were needed.
Well maybe - seems a little bit too soon to be talking about the next time but questions about the next time, whatever it turns out to be, are already being raised. Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): What if another hurricane, another earthquake, a massive fire, string of tornados or terrorist strike came right now?
For almost three years the Department of Homeland Security has been preparing for multiple simultaneous disasters. But now ...
MICHAEL GREENBERGER, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: Our vulnerabilities are out there. The thought was that the federal government was planning to protect us, and New Orleans shows that they've written the plans but they have no idea how to implement them.
FOREMAN: Homeland Security has drawn up a depressingly long list of possible disasters, and the department has repeatedly said relief organizations should always consider the need to respond to multiple incidents.
Yet when Katrina struck Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff defended the slow federal response by saying the storm and the flood it caused were multiple events.
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: This is really one which I think was breathtaking in its surprise.
FOREMAN: Nonetheless, with the horse long gone, he's now closing the barn.
CHERTOFF: As important as it is to continue to do what we're doing with Katrina and with the survivors of Katrina, we still have to continue to look forward to what might happen next.
FOREMAN: The Katrina relief effort is taking a tremendous amount of resources, both public and private. Sixty-eight thousand active duty and reserve military troops. More than a dozen ships. Hundreds of helicopters and airplanes. Engineers, environmentalists, health experts, housing, transportation and communication specialists. It goes on and on.
Supplies? Consider this. Of the 58 million pre-packaged meals the government has on-hand, mainly for the military, two thirds have been committed to Katrina. But resources can be replaced.
(on camera): Were we lulled into a sense that the federal government could do this kind of thing?
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: I think so.
FOREMAN: (voice-over): It may be more important to understand the limits of government help.
FALKENRATH: People thought with all this attention to first responders and to incident management at the federal level that the federal government was really going to be able to respond instantaneously or very rapidly to a disaster. And that's just not the case.
FOREMAN: So the new leader of FEMA is saying get ready. Have water, food, blankets, radios, flashlights, medicine. He says it's not paranoia to be prepared. It's simple prudence.
Others put it more bluntly for cities and their citizens.
RANDALL LARSEN, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: In the first 72 to 96 hours after a big disaster, you're probably going to be on your own.
FOREMAN: Just like so many in Katrina's terrible wake. Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington. (END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: I shouldn't say this but when you see the pictures on the ground and you go to these towns in Mississippi and Louisiana and you see what's going on there now, still and you hear the official sound bytes, they sound a little lame.
Still ahead in this hour, the pets left behind by Katrina, what's being done to help them. Plus, the mayor of New Orleans lays out the welcome mat, but do the residents want to come home?
And we'll talk to the now homeless New Orleans police officers to see how their coping and one police recruit shares why, when given the option to leave, he stayed.
We'll take a break first.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Now in a story with a lot of hard parts, this has been one of the hardest. We have been showcasing all week the great and good work being done at the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. People there, many of them volunteers are running a clearing house in an effort to reconnect missing kids with their parents and the other way around. These are people who were separated at shelters or before they could get to shelters.
It struck us the other night and a lot viewers thought it was a pretty good idea, too, took the time to write in, that we ought to do more than devote a minute or two or three each night to do the job so we will this weekend and you're going to have a hard time avoiding these kids if you watch us this weekend.
CNN's Brian Todd is at the center tonight to explain a bit of that and an update, too. Brian, good evening.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Aaron, and with this update we do have some good news to report and it is related to our reporting here at the Center for Missing and Exploited Children and in this room, where they have the Katrina missing person's hotline. This is the 12th day, nearing the end of the 12th day that this room has been up.
Significant on several levels. The numbers of children reporting missing have gone up each day that this hotline has been established. The numbers now stand at about 2,050, but also the numbers of cases resolved have gone up each day. That number now stands at 760.
We're going to show you a success story. Nine-month-old Ace Martinez, we aired his picture earlier today on CNN and we are told by people a the center that as a result of that airing, he has been found, he has been recovered, his case has been resolved. He went missing with his caretakers in Covington, Louisiana. They all went missing together. Someone saw his picture on CNN earlier, a social worker, we are told, saw this picture, contacted the center. They resolved the case. Ace Martinez, nine months old, is safe and healthy tonight. It illustrates why it is important to pay attention to the pictures that we're putting up, pay attention to the numbers that we're putting up. It works.
Here are a couple of children who are still missing, cases still outstanding. We're going to tell you their stories.
Tyrielle Guillot, seven years old, last know to be with her grandmother and aunt in New Orleans. She is said to have birthmarks on her back, arms and hands. She goes by the nickname Tyra. Here mother reported her missing. Her grandmother and aunt are also missing with Tyrielle. Again, seven years old.
But they have older - many older children have gone missing as well. Here's one of them. Seventeen-year-old Unique Clark, last know to be with her sister and niece in New Orleans. Again, a case where all of them have gone missing. The mother has reported her missing.
So if you have information about Unique Clark, Tyrielle Guillot, or any of the more than 2,000 children now reported missing, you are asked to call this hotline number, 1-888-544-5475 or you can go to www.missingkids.com.
Aaron, they are wrapping up, as I said, the 12th day of this hotline. It has had much success. They all agree they have much more work to do.
BROWN: Well, may their work be finished quickly is the best thing we can hope for and we'll try and help along the way. Brian, thank you.
We talked about this the other night, it actually happened. It doesn't happen often this way but it is going to happen this way this time. All this weekend on CNN we're going to focus on the missing children of Katrina. We'll put their pictures up on the screen all day long, all weekend long, 2,000 missing kids and hopefully along the way someone will know where the parents are or put the parents and the kids together.
I don't want to put too fine a point on this, Anderson, but as a parent, the idea that my child is out there somewhere and I don't know where she is, you would be panic-struck under normal circumstances and these aren't normal circumstances.
COOPER: Yeah, and to think that almost three weeks on, there are still some 2,000 children missing is just an extraordinary figure and I think it was last night that the number actually rose which is one of those things that - it's got to be - we can do better than this, and I'm really glad CNN is doing that this weekend.
We're going to try to get every child's photograph on the air at some point during the weekend that we can and as much as information as we know about them out there and if anyone, anyone out there has any information we'll have the number for who to contact, because we've got to bring this number down. Two thousand children is just - it is a tragedy.
The people who are here in New Orleans very much want this city of theirs to rise again and it is going to rise again. There is no doubt about it. A great many who were here a few weeks ago are to elsewhere, dispersed all over the country. What about them? Are they planning to come back? Are they going to become former New Orleaneans?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: I know New Orleaneans. Once the Beignets start cooking up again and the gumbo is in the pots and the red beans and rice are being served on Monday in New Orleans and not where they are, they are going to be back.
COOPER (voice-over): Mayor Ray Nagin says he's ready to make New Orleans New Orleans again. Yesterday he announced that more than 180,000 of those displaced by Katrina can come home. The question is do they want to?
More than 1.3 million people lived in Greater New Orleans before Katrina hit, and according to a survey in the "Washington Post," 44 percent of them say they don't plan to return anytime soon. Joey Fray (ph) is one of them. He was evacuated from New Orleans, from its hot weather and hotter nightlife, to Salt Lake City, Utah, a cooler climate and the seat of the Mormon Church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably got a job already. I just filled out, I don't know, 15, 20 applications from all kind of companies. Everyone wants to help us. You know, why should I come back?
COOPER: But 43 percent say they can't wait for the word that it's time to come back. Like Valerie Thomas, taken from New Orleans to Utah, a state where the African American population stands at less than one percent.
VALERIE THOMAS, EVACUATED FROM NEW ORLEANS: That's home. That's home. I don't think I could ever make this home. You know, I could make the best of a bad situation, but this will never be home for us.
COOPER: Hundreds of thousands of people were evacuated from New Orleans, forced from their homes, their loved ones and familiar surroundings by the storm. Moved in a matter of days to unknown places across the country. From Texas to Maine to Oregon, different climates, different cultures. And there are other telling facts in the survey that offer some hint as to why so many say they won't come home again.
Fifty-five percent of the respondents said they know their homes were destroyed. Sixty-four percent say they rented rather than owned their homes. Still, there are some in New Orleans, some of the diehards who refused to leave at all who say the lure of the Big Easy will eventually draw the others back home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: People might be away from home, but you know, when they start thinking about gumbo cooking on the stove and red beans and rice on Monday and beignets and cafe au lait in the quarter, they'll come back. There's nowhere else they're going to find that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (on camera): And just ahead tonight, pets left alone in the storm, now there is no more room left in the shelters. We'll tell you what's going to happen to them and we will talk to New Orleans police officers who are on the job, who stayed on the job, who even came in to do the job even though they didn't have to.
This is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT, "State of Emergency." We'll be right back to District 6.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: You're looking at barbecue that was prepared by some officers from Texas who are here working in the 6th District in New Orleans, serving up some amazing food, brisket, some great barbecue here for the officers here who are on duty who are - some of whom have been living in this parking lot by the Wal-Mart which was looted in the aftermath of the storm. Their precinct isn't occupiable (ph) right now.
If you'd like to see some people just about literally and personally personifies the phrase, "above and beyond the call of duty," they are standing with me right now. New Orleans policemen who are now living in this ruined Wal-Mart or in places around here in homes because their own homes often are gone. One of them is barely out of the police academy, was given the option to leave, he chose to stay. It's an honor to have all of you guys here. I appreciate you joining us.
First let me start up with you, Greg. You are not officially a police officer. You are a recruit technically?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
COOPER: So they said to the recruits, you can go home, you don't have to come.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think in the confusion they didn't really know what to do with us and they said if you have a place to go, go and we'll get in touch with you.
COOPER: But you didn't. You came here of your own accord.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I briefly went out of town because I didn't have anything with me. Everything I had was gone and I got some equipment that I needed and I came right back and linked up with the 6th District. I know some people on the job in this district and I knew they'd be functional.
COOPER: And you've been sworn in in the field.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Correct, sir, yes. COOPER: What did you learn in these last two to three weeks? Could they have ever taught you this in the police academy?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not. This is field training at its finest. This is trial by fire. The first few days was trial by fire.
COOPER: Well, it's amazing what you've done. I appreciate you talking to us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
COOPER: I want to talk to captain, too. You've got to be so proud of your guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah. It's great. We couldn't ask for better guys to come in. The people around this country that are worried about the youth of today, just look over my shoulder and you'll find out that this country is in good hands. Every last one of these officers are heroes. Every last one of them.
COOPER: And you were very thankful, we were talking about this before, about the way America has looked at you guys and helped out with you guys and women and your time of need.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely. You go to the beginning, rumors were rampant that police had run and that the police weren't on the streets. Let me tell you, every officer in this district and the other districts, well, they had a couple who left. But the vast majority, 99 percent of the police officers in this city stood tall. I mean, we were in a police station that was shaking in the wind. Not one flinched.
COOPER: Are you going to allow those officers from Texas to leave?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh no. First couple of days here we were foraging for food and water and I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the United States. The people in this country came through.
COOPER: Travis (ph), I was going to say to you that they must be paying you a lot to be here but they're not paying you anything to be here. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm a reserve police officer. I stayed here through the storm, had a business trip that was planned prior to the storm so I went to that, came back Monday and I've been here ever since.
COOPER: Why do you do that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was a police officer for 10 years before in another agency, moved to New Orleans, became a reserve officer. Once it's in your system you never get out.
COOPER: It's nice to be here in the - this is the original Fort Apache, isn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me tell you about that. There was another district that was flying the flag Fort Apache. I like to claim ownership personally but I can't. Many years ago the 6th District was called Fort Apache. It came with the movie "Fort Apache the Bronx."
The 1st District Downtown tried to claim the title and start flying a flag and I told my guys that somebody else had the flag, they kind of went over there and commandeered the flag and they brought it home to the real Fort Apache.
COOPER: I've got to tell you, it's the first time I've seen or met you guys tonight, but it's great to see you smiling and laughing after what you've been through.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we feel like we've come over the hard part and this is the Queen City of the South. Long live the Queen. The city's back, we're going to come back.
COOPER: I just want to give you a chance - I know you haven't seen your family in a long time. I want to give you a chance to say hi to your family.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My name is Glen Serpas (ph), I'm a 27-year veteran with the New Orleans Police Department. I'd like to say hello to my wife, Mimi (ph), our son Evan (ph), our two daughters, Jennifer (ph) and Cheryl (ph). I love you. See you guys soon.
COOPER: You got to get some new clothes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need new clothes.
COOPER: All of you guys, thank you, I appreciate it. You've done amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (inaudible)
COOPER: I know, they've all shrunk in sizes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two weeks of MREs will do that to you.
COOPER: Nearly three weeks ago when search and rescue teams were plucking people on the Gulf Coast from their rooftops, most were not allowed to bring their pets.
The Humane Society says about 50,000 animals were left behind in New Orleans alone in the wake of Hurricane Katrina. We decided to look at what's happening now with those abandoned animals. Here is some of what we found.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): In New Orleans you stumble on heartbreaking scenes, this one in the Garden District. A dog dead, decaying on the sidewalk. A scene Humane Society volunteer Lee Bergeron can't put into words.
LEE BERGERON, ANIMAL RESCUE VOLUNTEER: It's hard for me not to cry when I look at it.
COOPER: Cruising the streets for stranded pets, Lee finds two dogs, hungry, exhausted, but for them it's not too late.
BERGERON: Come here.
COOPER: Lee radios for help. This is exactly why he made the trip all the way from San Diego, to save animals' lives. It's not always possible, however. In the next house Lee finds dogs barking wildly inside, too scared to even show themselves. With no place to put dogs who come peacefully, there's nothing Lee can do but leave food and some water.
BERGERON: Sorry, dog.
COOPER: It's been like this for weeks now. The first days after Katrina we found dogs stranded in trees, dogs on walls, pacing, surrounded by water. This is what helpless feels like. Motoring in a boat, we found animals everywhere, adrift, abandoned by their owners, alive or dead.
(on camera): There are so many dogs which you find that are just starving. And you try to feed them as much as you can. But there's too many of them roaming around. It's going to become a health hazard.
(voice-over): Since then teams of animal rescuers from all over the country have waded into dirty, diseased water trying to coax stranded pets into crates and onto boats. The Humane Society says the operation has led to the rescue of some 5,000 abandoned animals.
Little Chip here is lucky. Cradled in the arms of an Army flight surgeon, rescued with his owner and airlifted to safety. This Shih Tzu taking shelter at Louisiana State University in Baton Rouge, where some 1,000 rescued animals remain.
New Orleans now struggles with the staggering numbers of animals rescued in shelters, how to house them, how to feed them, what to do with them. The Agriculture Department's Animal Health Inspection Service says of the 5,000 animals rescued, fewer than 700 have been reunited with their owners.
For those animals that didn't make it to safety, left in houses without air-conditioning, left roaming or chained, there's not a lot rescue workers can do for them now. They just leave them some food and some water, trying to alleviate a few moments' suffering.
BERGERON: Two weeks without food and water a lot of these guys went. We're just trying to get as many of them fed as we can so we can buy time and rescue them later or maybe they'll open up the city and let the owners come back in and take care of the pets.
(END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER (on camera): You go down these streets and you see the houses sealed and you hear these animals barking and meowing inside, it is so sad.
Just ahead, former President Bill Clinton has some advice for FEMA. Hear what he has to say about the Katrina aftermath. That's coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I can't imagine it's very easy being an ex-president in a moment like this. Especially when the moment involves what amounts to your own backyard and the duties of your old job certainly, such is Bill Clinton's life these days, working on hurricane relief with the first President Bush, trying to help without interfering, offering opinions without appearing to second guess.
Tonight he talked about the storm with Larry King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: What do you make of the whole Katrina story to you, the apologies, the responsibility, the mayor, the president, how do you overview it?
BILL CLINTON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, I think the president did the right thing in taking responsibility. Clearly, the FEMA response was slow.
We're going to have a lot of people who are going to be really poor after this Katrina event in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. We had a lot of poor people -- poor, now you've got a lot of poor people who have nothing.
So the question is, can something be done to help those people who are willing to help themselves? And the answer to that is a resounding yes.
KING: I was asking you -- back to Katrina -- whether New Orleans can ever be New Orleans again.
CLINTON: Oh, I think it can.
I think, first of all, we ought to try to have mixed neighborhoods, not isolate the poor. I really believe in that. I worked hard on that when I was president, trying to get people with -- move people from welfare to work and at the same time move them into middle class neighborhoods and kind of break this kind of culture of grinding poverty.
KING: With global warming, can you stop it, move it back, prevent it or just slow it down? Is it a fact?
CLINTON: It's a fact right now. The first thing you ought to do, what you want to do is slow it down. No one can say for sure that Katrina was caused by global warming but we know that the climate is warming up. We know that 12 big chunks of ice the size of the state of Rhode Island have broken off of the South Pole in the last decade.
We know if something doesn't happen to slow this warming down, whole island nations in the Pacific will be flooded. We'll lose 50 feet of Manhattan Island in New York within the next 50 years if we don't do something to turn this around.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Former President Bill Clinton with LARRY KING LIVE tonight. A number of things on the former president's mind.
Coming up, historian Dough Brinkley calls New Orleans home. He takes a look at where the city goes from here. And covering Katrina, a reporter's notebook.
This is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And welcome back. We are live in New Orleans. A steamy night after a hard rain here in New Orleans. I am joined by the eminent presidential historian Douglas Brinkley, also a native of this great city. You are here on a very special project. What are you doing?
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, HISTORIAN: Well, I'm a professor at Tulane University and we created a small task force. Our semester has been wiped out. We have a lot of students that are working to do oral histories, photographs, video documentary, get the stories while stories are in people's minds right now.
COOPER: I'm so happy that you're doing that because I'm so afraid this is all just going to get swept away and people are going to forget and move on and the tragedy and the horror and the triumphs here are just going to be forgotten.
BRINKLEY: Absolutely. When the media trucks leave - I know CNN is planning and committed to staying for a while but a lot of other ones won't be ...
COOPER: Well, let's hope.
BRINKLEY: And we got to stay on it, yeah.
COOPER: Let's talk a little about what you've seen so far. You've been on the ground, I have seen you around town. You've been taking photographs of - you and some soldiers you saw on the street.
BRINKLEY: Right. Well, there's photographer Lindsay Brice from New York with me and everywhere you go in New Orleans, now, you see somebody from some National Guard or some government unit and they've just completely, as you know, taken over the streets. So the one photograph is just showing kind of common Downtown New Orleans photo. No cars but a lot of people with boots on the ground.
COOPER: You also have a photo of my favorite sign in New Orleans right now. Tell me the story behind it.
BRINKLEY: Well that sign, your producer actually - Henry Schuster calls it street blogging. The people are putting up signs and this one is a man named Mr. Roux (ph) and he's put out - he's tried to stop looters from taking his Oriental rugs and he successfully did it by saying he's got a dog, an ugly woman, he's got a claw hammer and two guns.
And I talked with him today and he's been able to keep looters from his neighborhood and saved, actually, Delmonico's Restaurant which Emeril runs and he wants Emeril to know that he needs a free meal for saving his place.
COOPER: He also updated the sign a couple days later and he said the woman was gone, had left him and he was making a dog gumbo.
BRINKLEY: And you're starting to see now some of these people - I think one of the great stories are the people who stayed in New Orleans. It wasn't just destitute people. There were some people who just wanted to hold down what belonged to them and they stayed.
COOPER: We see two African Americans being handcuffed in a photo, too.
BRINKLEY: That's right. That's taken at the Greyhound bus station that's from Angola Prison. They had to come in, they went there to try to put them in safe penitentiaries. Such a classic shot, which you do a hundred of - of a woman that Lindsay took being chained.
COOPER: And the dead. I hate to call them bodies or corpses. They are our neighbors, our countrymen, and they are still out there.
BRINKLEY: Anderson, I went into the water the other day and I saw floating corpses. Lindsay took this one off of Earhart Expressway and it's just so lonesome. You talk about - Bob Dylan once said a line in a song, "you can die down there and be another accident statistic," talking about the South.
And when you see a body like that it's no "Saints Go Marching In" or jazz funeral. It's very lonely and anonymous.
COOPER: Your city is going to come back?
BRINKLEY: Absolutely it's going to come back because New Orleans is America. It's the gateway to the Mississippi River and the Mississippi is the spine of America.
COOPER: Douglas, thank you.
BRINKLEY: Thanks Anderson. COOPER: Really, great to speak to you. I'm so glad with what you're doing.
Up next, more here from New Orleans and Aaron has a look at morning papers. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Okay, time to check the morning papers from around the country and around the world. Very quickly tonight, OK? What choice do I have?
Weekend edition of the "Wall Street Journal" so we'll start with that, which to me looks like the weekday edition of the "Wall Street Journal except it has a picture. That's the only difference I can see. Well, we wish them a lot of luck.
The "Washington Times," "Bush says no to Katrina taxes." That's one way to look at it. Or you can look at it the way the "Washington Post" did. "Bush says spending cuts will be needed."
It's the same story told different in the headlines.
We don't do a Spanish paper often but we will tonight because Barcelona is celebrating the inauguration of a new tower and I just thought the picture was worth it. OK.
The "Times of London." I like this story. "English football finds a new World Cup Willie." Prince William somehow, I guess it's just a meritocracy there, is going to be come the president of the Football Association. It's not who you know, it's what you do.
Yes, I got it Will, thank you. I lost a bet to the producer and now he's yelling in my ear.
"Many Iowans fall hard as 'ice age' takes hold." A reminder there are things in the world going on other than Katrina and one of them is meth. If you're in Chicago tomorrow, the weather will be, according to the "Chicago Sun-Times," "tidy."
When we come back, reflections on the storm and the city it consumed.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, next week we're going to look at what went on at the New Orleans Convention Center, why so many people were left there, abandoned, no food, no water, no medical care, no security at all. It wasn't even a shelter. If you were at the Convention Center, if you know somebody who was at the Convention Center, there were 15 to 20,000 people, we want to hear from you.
They are spread all over the country. We are trying to piece together the pieces of the puzzle. Send us an email to cnn.com/360. Actually is that the right email? What is our email? Cnn.com/360, send an email, it's been a long couple of weeks. We want to hear from you, click on the "Instant Feedback" link. We'll get in touch with you.
Reporters aren't supposed to make themselves the story, nor are we supposed to make what we do the story. On the other hand, if we hide the fact that a particular story touches us in deep ways, that it makes us hear our hearts beating hard all the time, as it were, for very intimate reasons, if we fail even to mention that, well, that's not honest reporting either.
I hope that what this "Reporter's Notebook" is is not too personal, but it's honest. The words are mine. The pictures by photographer Rodicka Chelassanie (ph) of Getty Images.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): I've been coming to New Orleans since I was a kid. My dad used to live here, and his heart always did. This gritty gumbo city, its hot humid streets, seeing it like this, well, it's hard to explain.
Blink and you're in Baghdad. Black water, guys with guns, rubble-strewn streets, Black Hawks in the sky.
That sound, that sound, crushing and comforting, the cavalry's come, help has arrived, urgent seconds ticking by. Street signs are down, new signs are up. Hand-drawn, heartfelt, "be thankful God loves you." "Looters will be shot." This one's my favorite. "Don't try. I'm sleeping inside with a big dog, an ugly woman, two shotguns, and a claw hammer."
Working here, it's unlike any story I've ever been on. I've never been prouder of the people I stand by. You shoot and you edit. You do live shots and shows. You're always in motion, slamming sodas and candy. It just doesn't stop.
Last week we were living in trailers packed tight, poorly stocked. No one complained. There was no need to explain. Compared to everyone else, we had it good. The phones didn't work. We still clinged to our Blackberries, our heads always down. Now we've got an office set up with food and supplies, at night a hotel where we disinfect our feet.
We're all taking something -- Cipro, a whole bunch of shots. Some have conjunctivitis and cuts. You have to be careful.
What's happened here has been a story about failure, of governments and officials and systems in place. But it's also a story about kindness, of strangers helping strangers and neighbors in need.
There have been moments, I think, for a lot of us working here where we all feel very much alone. We're surrounded by ruin and rubble. You feel like you're on the edge of the world. I guess in a way you get used to seeing all this destruction, but you never get used to seeing the people it's affected.
In the shelters it really hits you. The babies are oblivious, thank God, their parents' arms the only home they have. The young and the old have little but doubts and questions. What will I do? How can I rebuild? What will happen tomorrow?
Governments can help, but they can't do this. Holding, hugging, human connections were strengthened by the storm. I know sometime soon viewers are going to move on from this story. The water level is falling. The tide is ebbing and so will the interest. I know it's going to happen. I just don't know when. I don't think we should forget what we've seen. I know those of us who were here never will.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And Aaron, I think all of us who are here hope that this story does not go away any time soon and that we never forget what we have seen and that we never let it happen again.
Aaron?
BROWN: It's been good work. Good work for you, good work for the network and in many ways good work for the business. All of our colleagues at all of the places.
CNN's coverage continues around the clock. Catherine Callaway picks it up in Atlanta. Have a good weekend, we'll see you next week.
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