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Rita Beginning to Hit Florida; Residents Returned to New Orleans Told to Evacuate; Is Mayor of New Orleans Up to His Job?; Gretna Mayor: Racism Not Factor in Closing City to Evacuees

Aired September 20, 2005 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CO-HOST: New video just released from Scotland Yard showing the London train bombers casing their targets days before the deadly attacks. Those stories just ahead on AMERICAN MORNING
ANNOUNCER: From the CNN Broadcast Center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

M. O'BRIEN: Good morning to you. That was a live picture from New Orleans. Soledad is off this morning.

Once again today, CNN is teaming up with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The left side of your screen, as you can see coming up, the faces of Katrina's divided families. If you have any information, please call the number at the bottom of your screen.

Tropical Storm Rita on the cusp of becoming a hurricane as we speak, and barreling right toward the Florida Keys. CNN, your hurricane headquarters. Chad Myers at the weather center with the latest.

Good morning, Chad.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Miles.

It really does look like this thing is probably up to 75 miles per hour. The hurricane hunter aircraft that was flying from Georgia down here to get into it, because it can't fly out of Biloxi anymore because of Katrina, a little bit later than it should have been here. But we finally got the plane into it.

And now the storm is still spinning and really moving right at -- the eye wall moving very close to what will be Key West. A south and lower Keys landfall probably of the eye wall. Maybe not of the eye, but we'll have to keep watching that.

Hurricane warnings from Golden Beach right on down to Key West. And then up the other side, all the way up there, for that matter, right across about Alligator Alley seeing that hurricane warning.

The official hurricane center forecast takes the eye, at least the center of it, south of Key West. This is a very large eye, though. You can begin to see it here. This is the Key West radar. The eye very large. Almost 70 miles wide right now. So the plane flying through it. When the eye gets smaller, it's again like that skater, ice skater bringing her arms in at the Olympics when she tries to do that big skate-around.

Here's Tavernier. Here's Key Largo. Another big batch of rain, thunder storms. This is called a squall line, if you will, coming on through. It's still a part of the same outer band that we've been watching for awhile.

And in here, right here to Key West, one of these squall lines coming through one of the outer bands. I can zoom you right into downtown Key West. We'll get you here. Here's the east side of the island. We'll get you Duvall Street right here and that rain coming in from the west through Key West.

And in fact, our reporter, Rob Marciano, meteorologist there, already probably seeing the rain. Another squall for you, Rob.

ROB MARCIANO, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Thanks, Chad.

About 45 minutes ago you said we'd get something in about half an hour, and sure enough, you were right. The squall came through. The wind has died down since. So now we're just getting more of a gentle breeze.

But the frequency of these little squalls has picked up. And there is now a little bit of a sense in the air that the storm is getting a little bit closer.

Folks haven't come out in the streets just yet. Still early for Key West time, but only about half of the folks have evacuated. They plan for a Category 2 storm. Looks like it may be a little bit weaker and hopefully skimming us down to the south as opposed to a direct hit. And that would be a good thing.

But for the most part, officials both here in the Keys and on the mainland, the southern tip of Florida, if anything, over prepared for this storm, and that's never a bad thing.

Radar shot, I have no idea. Chad, help me out. What is it showing? I can't see it.

MYERS: You've got these arms coming out, Rob. These feeder bands all the way, right along from the upper Keys from Tavernier through Islamorada down into Grassy Key, Duck Key, and even into Marathon.

There's a big break right over the Seven Mile Bridge, a break from Big Pine Key over to No Name Key and then Summerland (ph) and Kudjo Key (ph) are getting out of the squall and then back into Key West. Shark Key, you're getting into the squall. It's just going to be one after another.

Obviously, the one that's coming into Marathon will be coming across the Seven Mile Bridge quickly. That is a much larger squall than the one coming through Key West right now. So in about, I would say, for you in about 45 minutes, you're going to have another big outer band come through with wind squalls in the 50 mile per hour range.

MARCIANO: OK. Well, let me ask you this, Chad. Tropical storm force winds extend how far from the center of this? And how close to the center do you think the Keys, Key West will get later on today?

MYERS: Rob, the storm took a little bit of a wobble overnight. Yesterday it actually wobbled to the south a little bit. Overnight it wobbled to the north a little bit. And I believe that you are going to get the eye wall itself. It's hard to see, but that's one of the outer bands of the eye wall. It's a big eye. But I believe that this northern eye wall is going to come right over the top of Key West.

You're going to get similar conditions to what you had when you were over there in Ophelia. You were also in the top of the eye wall, not really the eye center itself. You're never going to be able to look up and see sunshine, but you'll be on the worst side of the storm.

And the movement, the movement forward also increases the wind speed, because you have to add the storm, plus you have to add the forward motion together.

Here is Key Largo, right on down to your south is where the worst weather is. Tavernier really getting it now. Islamorada picking up some showers and thunderstorms, as well. And it just -- it gets worse from here. As the storm gets closer, these squalls get bigger, the winds pick up and, obviously, you start to see some palm fronts come down. And maybe we'll even lose power. We'll see.

Miles, back to you.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you very much, Chad and Rob.

Let's get over to New Orleans, where Rita has, well, thrown a monkey wrench in the plan to repopulate the city. And I think it's safe to say this morning, Carol, after listening to your guests just a moment ago from Algiers, there's a fair amount of confusion.

CAROL COSTELLO, CO-HOST: A fair amount of confusion? There's a lot of confusion out here, Miles! The possibility that Rita could hit New Orleans and flood the city again was enough to make Mayor Nagin reverse himself. After first telling thousands of people that they could come back into the city, he had to tell them to get back out.

Ed Lavandera is in the Garden District of New Orleans. And Ed, I know you're hearing from people the same thing I did; they're not sure what to do!

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. And this is one of the areas, the Garden District, where people were supposed to start coming back tomorrow officially to begin that rebuilding process. But for the time being, scenes like this, plans to reconstruct scenes like this have been set aside.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unfortunately, they closed off all residents. They're not letting no residents in right now. OK?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry for that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not your fault.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): Confusion and tension at the checkpoints leading into New Orleans. Just hours after the city's mayor ordered a mandatory evacuation, blaming it on Tropical Storm Rita, many waiting in long lines to get to their homes unleashed their anger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every checkpoint is different! Every one has a different set of rules and regulations! Nobody has any idea what he's doing!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He gave everybody permission to go into the city. I understand if he's going to close it down. But if he gave you permission to go today he could at least let you get in there today!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today, I've been in once. And you know, trying to get in for the second time. But I'm going to try an alternate route.

LAVANDERA: This man vowed to keep trying the side streets until he made it past the security checkpoints, but some have already been successful.

ROBERT CAMERON, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: I begged the police to let me come in. This is the combination of my usual debris and the debris from the storm.

LAVANDERA: Tucked behind the sprawling foliage of his front yard, Robert Cameron is living quietly in his home again.

CAMERON: No looting. No real major structural damage that I know of. I mean, the house might fall in on me when I plop myself, my fat self in on the bed tonight, but I don't think so.

LAVANDERA: Cameron is one of the lucky Garden District residents.

CAMERON: The magic -- the magic of electricity.

LAVANDERA: He has electrical power. The water is running, but it's not drinkable. The air-conditioning works, and he says that's all he needs.

CAMERON: I'm happy, you know? I mean, my animals are OK. I'm OK. The place stinks but, you know, I'm going to get a few sticks of incense and some scented candles and start cleaning up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, it is closed to everybody. The mayor has closed it and evacuated again.

LAVANDERA: While some have figured out a way to return to their homes and possibly remain, thousands of others are still stuck on the outside looking in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. Sorry about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAVANDERA: The situation on the streets yesterday afternoon seemed to change quite a bit. In the days leading up to yesterday, many people we talked had already kind of made their way or snuck their way back into the city. They talked about how easy it was many times to get around the checkpoints. If you hit one place and got turned around, many people know the side streets, so they would navigate other ways into the city.

But yesterday it was much tighter, and those police officers at those checkpoints had to deal with many frustrated and confused people -- Carol.

COSTELLO: You're not kidding. In fact, on I-10, we witnessed a backup miles and miles long, and police were checking people's I.D.'s as they went into the city. A lot of those people's residents, as you said, they went back to their neighborhoods only to be told they might have to leave again.

Thank you. Ed Lavandera reporting from the Garden District of New Orleans this morning.

This bit of news just in to CNN. You remember President Bush promised that he would look into what went wrong in the Hurricane Katrina response? Well, he's appointed someone to do just that. And it's going to be White House homeland security adviser Francis Townsend. She will lead the internal inquiry at the White House.

We don't know exactly what the process will be. When we find out, we'll pass it along to you. But this bit of information just in to CNN this morning.

Let's head back for more news of the day with Kelly Wallace.

Good morning, Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Carol. And hello, everyone.

Now in the news, new images of the suspected London bombers. Scotland Yard releasing this new footage this morning. Authorities believe it shows three of the suspects checking out potential targets of the city's subway system. The video was taken less than two weeks before the deadly July 7 attacks. More than 50 people were killed in those bombings. News about President Bush. He is taking his fifth trip to the Gulf region since Katrina hit last month. The president is expected to make a stop in Gulfport, Mississippi, where he'll meet with local officials and business leaders. He'll also take a closer look at cleanup efforts in New Orleans. The president is set to depart from the White House next hour.

Despite vowing to rebuild the Gulf, President Bush's approval ratings remain down. According to a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll released Monday, 41 percent of people asked say they approval of the way the president is handling Katrina efforts, while 57 percent say they disapprove.

And support for the way the president is handling the situation in Iraq is at about 32 percent, with 67 percent saying they disapprove.

This poll is based on more than 800 people surveyed and has a sampling error of nearly four percentage points.

Testimony set to begin today in the first of more than 40 cases nationwide against Wal-Mart. Lawyers representing 116,000 current and former Wal-Mart workers told a California jury Monday they want $66 million, plus interest and penalties. They claim Wal-Mart systematically and illegally denied workers lunch breaks. Under California law, workers who should get a lunch break and don't are entitled to get an extra hour's pay.

And doctors are being urged to bring up the topic of obesity with women before they get pregnant. Researchers say extra pounds are linked with increased risk of miscarriages and other serious complications for expectant mothers, but women are also warned not to diet during their pregnancies.

Important information. Always a touchy subject, but there are health implications here, too.

O'BRIEN: There's one time when you have an excuse to eat all you want.

WALLACE: Eat everything you want.

O'BRIEN: So just do it. It's better for everybody.

WALLACE: Well, they're saying they don't want you to gain too much weight because you could have some health risks.

O'BRIEN: So what do you do now? You diet...

WALLACE: Have ice cream every other day.

O'BRIEN: Hold the pickles.

WALLACE: That's right.

O'BRIEN: All right. Thank you, Kelly. WALLACE: OK.

O'BRIEN: Still to come, more on the decision to halt New Orleans' repopulation plan. Is the mayor really in charge? We'll ask CNN political analyst James Carville, have him assess the leadership in the wake of Katrina.

And later, accusations of racism across the river from New Orleans. Why one city closed its bridge to Katrina evacuees. That's ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin is halting his controversial repopulation plan and once again urging people to leave New Orleans. Nagin says the reversal is because of Tropical Storm Rita and not because of some criticism. Federal officials right up to the president, Coast Guard Vice Admiral Thad Allen, as well, questioned whether the city was really ready for a re-entry.

Joining us now is CNN political analyst and Louisiana native, James Carville, who has not been back. No repopulation for you just yet.

JAMES CARVILLE, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: No.

O'BRIEN: Let's talk about the mayor. Incredibly difficult circumstances. Talk about a test of leadership. Has he passed the test?

CARVILLE: Well, I think he's in the middle of it. I think it's going to be -- unfortunately, for a lot of people, I think we have kind of like a bar exam here, do you know what I mean? Or medical -- get into medical school. This is not like sit down and take a test for an hour.

I can certainly understand why he wants people to come back to the city. People are begging to come back. They've got valuables, their homes that are there, they want to see what's going on. A lot of hotels in the French Quarter in the areas that weren't hurt, they want to start working again.

O'BRIEN: Sure.

CARVILLE: They want to get the people back there.

So I understand why Admiral Allen wants people to stay out. He's got a storm coming. He's got a very, very compromised levee system for flood control. They have potential disease problems. I mean, right now the worst thing that could happen is you let people back in the city, and they break out in cholera, and you know, God knows what happens.

O'BRIEN: All kinds of issues.

CARVILLE: Yes. O'BRIEN: Just a few moments ago, I asked the mayor about whether he was bowing to federal pressure. Let's listen to his response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: This is another hurricane getting ready to approach us. Nobody can control that. What I'm talking about is someone has to be consistently talking to the people, the individuals of New Orleans, and I was elected to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: All right. Because he had a comment there where he said the vice admiral, Allen, is out of his lane. "I'm the mayor." Do you think that plays well among the citizens of New Orleans to hear that kind of turf type discussion in the wake of all this?

CARVILLE: You know, I think that people want to sense that their elected mayor is in charge, OK? It's not in any way an analogous situation, but during the Civil War, they had the notorious Ben Butler was this sort of federal authority over New Orleans, who was wildly despised at the time.

I think that people in Louisiana, people in New Orleans want a sense that the federal authorities and the mayor are sort of working together, coming to a joint conclusion. Here, you had a sense where it looked like they were moving in different directions.

But again, you've got, what I've seen in the press now, a potential Category 3 hurricane that is going to get in the northern Gulf. When a hurricane gets in the Gulf, it has to hit somewhere. And you know, God knows for sure where, but I don't hope a hurricane on anybody, but I just hope it doesn't go to New Orleans.

O'BRIEN: Of course, the big fear is that New Orleans won't be really safe to be in until the end of the hurricane season, until those levees can be repaired.

CARVILLE: That's very true. It's very true. And you also have, as I understand it, has been predicted by many people, you have tons of disease problem because all this water is being mixed with industrial waste, human waste. You have dead bodies. And I don't really want to think about what's going back into Lake Pontchartrain, what are the health hazards there.

So I mean, I think Admiral Allen, he is -- I think he's doing a good job. I think the mayor is doing -- I think everybody is trying to do the right thing.

But there's an enormous amount of pressure on the mayor from people to get back in the city. There's an enormous amount of pressure from the businesses that are opened to get this -- get port running right. So there's a lot of people that have got to move into the city here. You know, it's a tough thing. And I just hope we don't get kind of a federal-state who's in charge thing. O'BRIEN: Well, it certainly has been that way since the outset of this. It's been a lot like that. If had you to pick one person that has exhibited good leadership under extreme stress, strain and fire, can you name one?

CARVILLE: Well, I mean, I don't -- I'm not that detailed into it, but I think that Admiral Allen is, I think he's a good appointment that the president made there. I hope they all do good. I mean it's way beyond -- the political damage has all been -- has happened here.

And, right now, the thing that scares me the most is this Rita, this other storm that's in the Gulf. And you know, it doesn't take anything close to a direct hit to really, really cause a lot of damage.

I think the mayor has done, under some adverse circumstances, I think he's in there plugging pretty hard and he's trying to retain control of his city. And you can understand that.

You know, people are afraid and they're tired. My point I'm telling my friends this is going to be going on for a long, long, long time. And that's the really scary thing about it.

O'BRIEN: James Carville, thanks for dropping by.

CARVILLE: You bet.

O'BRIEN: Carol.

COSTELLO: Miles, still to come on AMERICAN MORNING, the New Orleans suburb that closed its borders to Katrina evacuees. Was racism the reason? We'll ask the mayor. Stay with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In the days after Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans and the city descended into chaos, thousands were blocked from escape. One of the main arteries out of New Orleans lies across the bridge through Gretna, Louisiana.

Gretna officials refused to let citizens of New Orleans enter the city. Gretna is mostly white. New Orleans is mostly African- American. And some say racism was behind Gretna's decision.

Ronnie Harris is the mayor of Gretna, and he joins us now.

Good morning, Mr. Mayor.

MAYOR RONNIE HARRIS, GRETNA, LOUISIANA: Good morning.

COSTELLO: How do you respond to these initial charges, first of all?

HARRIS: Well, I, along with millions of fellow Americans were shocked by the lawlessness that was ransacking New Orleans at the time. And I don't -- I will tell you that I bristle when I hear the word "racism."

The city of Gretna is a low to moderate income with a large contingent of African-Americans, Hispanics and Asians. My community represents America, being in a cosmopolitan city such as New Orleans. I would like to say the other side of the story, relative to the actions of the Gretna police department.

COSTELLO: Well, before we get to that, let's listen to what some of the Hurricane Katrina evacuees had to say as they were trying to get away from all of that chaos at the Superdome and the convention center, trying to get into Gretna. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURIE BETH SLONSKY, SURVIVOR: They were not going to allow another New Orleans and they weren't going to allow a Superdome to go into their side of the bridge, Gretna.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The chief is quoted as saying, "If we wet these people," quote/unquote, "in, our city will look like New Orleans, burned, looted and pillaged."

SLONSKY: So to us, that reeks of absolute racism, since our group that was trying to cross over was women, children, predominantly African-American.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Those are pretty harsh charges. They say it was out and out racism as to why officials would not let them into Gretna. In fact, there were some people on board a bus that claim that police officers from Gretna actually shot at them to keep them from entering the city. How do you respond to that?

HARRIS: First of all, the decision to close the bridge was not made unilaterally by the city of Gretna. Three law enforcement agencies, decided to close the bridge. That actually occurred on day three after the storm.

On day two, people were streaming across the bridge to our limits. Our borders had been closed since the storm. We had no food. We had no water. We had no power. We had no running water.

COSTELLO: But I understand that, but it was nothing like what the citizens of New Orleans were experiencing at that time. They were desperate to get out. People were being killed. They had no place to go. So why close down the borders in the first place?

HARRIS: The tragedy of the situation was that there was a way for safety and freedom on the east bank to go to a FEMA approved location like I-10 and causeway. We had approximately 5,000 to 6,000 people amass at our borders. Oak Ridge shopping center was burning. Lawlessness was occurring in a neighboring community, and we were not going to allow that to happen into the city of Gretna. Generally, most people were looking for...

COSTELLO: But you're assuming that the people coming in from New Orleans were people who were going to cause trouble then?

HARRIS: We also had a criminal element that was obvious to everyone. And that was not going to happen in the city of Gretna. We had...

COSTELLO: But what if the people on the buses were innocent citizens just trying to escape what had become an untenable situation?

HARRIS: The travesty of the situation was that New Orleans officials should have sent them to the FEMA approved evacuation site that actually was closer for safety than our community.

Our community was hit by a hurricane 5 category hurricane. We had tremendous damage throughout our community. It was not a safe place to be. The dry dock had broken its moorings and affected the stability of the levee and the city of Gretna. And so our police department reacted to the environment that...

COSTELLO: I'm telling you, sir, if I'm on that bus and desperate to get out and get someplace safer and somebody pointed a gun at me and told me to go away, that would probably break my heart. I don't know how to deal with that.

HARRIS: The police department -- the police department in the city of Gretna, I supported the action of the chief of police reacting to the environment that we were presented with. And we acted accordingly to prevent the lawlessness from occurring in our community.

The vast majority of these evacuees were people looking for safety, I grant you that. But we also had a criminal element where there were guns. There was gunfire. There was looting. They were burning our community -- next door to our community. We were not going to allow that to happen into our city of Gretna.

COSTELLO: In hindsight are you still glad you assumed the worst?

HARRIS: I supported my chief of police then and now.

COSTELLO: So it was true that guns were pointed at these people? They were fired?

HARRIS: I didn't say that and nor did my police department say that. In a time of lawlessness, the police department is there to protect and to serve. We did that by evacuating over 5,000 to 6,000 people who were amassed at our borders. We commandeered buses. We brought them to safety where there was food, water and evacuation. That part of the story was overlooked.

The closing of the bridge, the misinformation by the city officials and also the city of -- New Orleans city officials had never contacted the city of Gretna nor have I received any phone call up to this point in time.

COSTELLO: Communications were pretty tough at the height of the storm. Mayor Ronnie Harris, thank you for joining us. HARRIS: Thank you.

COSTELLO: And coming to answer the charges this morning.

HARRIS: Thank you.

COSTELLO: Back to you, miles.

O'BRIEN: Thank you very much, Carol. Still to come on the program, a New Orleans cop explains why he went AWOL in the aftermath of Katrina.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm saying that I left them in a bad situation but I would have been leaving my wife in a worse situation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: He says he had some good reasons for deserting the force, but that may not be enough for his fellow officers. That story ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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