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Nancy Grace

Nancy Grace for September 23, 2005, CNNHN

Aired September 23, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: At this moment, Hurricane Rita bearing down on the Gulf Coast. We go live to the target zone. Over a million Texans flee their home. Tonight, Hurricane Rita set to hit landfall any hour, Rita barely started, and already 24 dead. All of this. And tonight, following the devastation of Katrina, the Southland braces for another pounding.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The message is, one last pick-up. Get on the buses now, we`ll take you to shelters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Tonight, legal state of emergency. Hurricane Rita, a lethal cat 3 storm, set to slam the Texas coast any hour. And New Orleans` worst fears come true, as Rita`s torrential rains pouring through ruptured levees, flooding the city again just weeks after Hurricane Katrina devastated the area.

And tragedy tonight in Houston. A busload of elderly evacuees explodes into flames on the way to safety. In Dallas tonight, two dozen people dead from that blast.

Very quickly, I want to go to Jim Kosek, senior meteorologist with Accuweather. Jim, explain.

JIM KOSEK, ACCUWEATHER SENIOR METEOROLOGIST: Nancy, we`re about six, seven hours away from landfall, at this point in time. But when you take a look at the size of these storms, it`s just absolutely enormous across the area, in excess of 400 miles wide. And therein lies the problem because we`re already seeing the effects of the storm system on the southeast Texas coast, as well as over toward New Orleans. We saw the levee breach that happened today, not so much from actual rainfall but the battering they took from Katrina, as well as water seepage and the surge coming up the mouth of the Mississippi to the tune of two to four feet.

Now, with the heavy rains locked in for Houston, this is the ongoing process that we`re going to have to contend with throughout the remainder of tonight, and for a large part of tomorrow and tomorrow night. Hurricane-force winds will gradually get to the coast over the next couple of hours. After midnight, probably on the east side of the city of Houston, Port Arthur could be the strike zone here for landfall a couple hours after midnight, and that most certainly would be detrimental. That seawall in Port Arthur goes up about 13 feet. A storm surge anywhere in the neighborhood of 15 feet would easily be able to breach that type of scenario.

It`s not a very large city, when you`re talking about comparing it to Houston or New Orleans, but nonetheless, this is a very, very prime location for all these natural gas platforms just off shore, as well as the oil refineries. So at least as far as an economic standpoint, it would be devastating. And that`s most likely an understatement on my part -- Nancy.

GRACE: Jim, tell me, what time is Rita now expected to make landfall?

KOSEK: We`re going to be looking at the 1:00 to 2:00 o`clock in the morning timeframe, Central Daylight Time, so we`re still at least several hours away, as it moves northwest at 13 miles right now, but we suspect that the forward speed will gradually pick up. But shortly thereafter, once it`s on shore, it will slow down. And this is actually another concern of ours, Nancy, that the storm system may eventually get on into northeastern Texas. What the locals call the Arklatex (ph). That`s the tri-state area of Arkansas, Louisiana and Texas.

If it stalls and could actually come back farther off to the south, this could be very, very eerily reminiscent of what Alison did back in 2001, with flooding downpours, 15 to 20 inches worth of rain throughout the Houston metropolitan area, with some getting 37 inches of rain over a five- day timeframe. So if you think this is a storm system that comes on shore tonight and is gone tomorrow, you got to think again. We`ll still be talking about it Monday and Tuesday of next week.

GRACE: Jim, another thing that`s very scary -- remember, with Katrina, we all went to sleep on Sunday night thinking, Oh, well, OK, that wasn`t so bad, until the flooding started. Delayed flooding, like we saw in New Orleans after Katrina, what could it mean?

KOSEK: Devastation is going to be the name of the game, and that could be part of the problem because the storm surge, which is going to be greatest 50 miles east of the storm path, is coming into an area that isn`t really densely populated. So Cameron parish on into portions of Vermilion parish and just across the Sabine (ph), where we`re headed on into Port Arthur, that`s probably where you`re going to see the bulk of your population, with the folks that work at the oil refineries here.

So we`re going to be the getting pictures in from the Sabine River and Port Arthur, but absolutely no one is standing south of interstate 10, once you`re able to get off to the south of the Lake Charles area.

GRACE: Here`s what the governor had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO (D), LOUISIANA: If some people insist on staying and believe that they can weather this kind of storm, that perhaps they should write their Social Security numbers on their arms with indelible ink.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: This is a great test for our people in this state. It`s a great test, certainly, for these -- emergency management, homeland security, the military, all those who are directing this operation. But we`re going to get through this. We`re going to get through this because we`ve prepared for such an event as this with extensive exercises. We`re going to get through this because so many of our citizens took this evacuation very seriously and because this state has thousands of rescue and relief workers on standby. So be calm, be strong, say a prayer for Texas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s go straight out to Ernie Allen. After the catastrophe following Katrina -- he is the director of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. Ernie, please speak out to parents tonight, explain to them, what do you do if you`re evacuating to keep with your child or in the event you get separated?

ERNIE ALLEN, DIR., NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Nancy, we want to make sure they have photographs, that they provide descriptive information, IDs on the presence of their children, have a family plan so that you know what to do, even send digital photos to your friends and relatives so that if you`re separated, we have that tool to find you.

GRACE: I want to go back to Jim Kosek. We saw the devastation following Katrina. What areas are at risk tonight for the most devastation? Is it too early to tell, Jim?

KOSEK: I don`t think so at all here, Nancy. We`re very, very worried about this Port Arthur area. The water`s going to very easily be able to back up through the Sabine pass here and come right on into Port Arthur. So you know, you have several hundreds of thousands of people here. Most have evacuated, from what I`ve learned, in the Beaumont/Port Arthur orange (ph) triangle area. But this is an area that`s going to be very, very susceptible, especially true because we believe the storm surge is going to be able to get greater than that 13-foot seawall that they have in Port Arthur, Nancy.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

Hold on, Elizabeth. Let me know when you get the sound.

Back to Jim Kosek, senior meteorologist with Accuweather. Why is it we are seeing so much hurricane activity this season?

KOSEK: Well, this is -- and if you remember back from last year, we saw a tremendous increase in the number of named storms across the Caribbean, Atlantic and the Gulf base area, Nancy. And this is part of the warming trend that we`re in, the decadal shift, where we`re getting back from what we saw back in the 1950s and `60s, where there were several named storms, certainly well above average.

So when you hear someone speak of normal, such as normal high or normal low temperature, that`s a misnomer. There`s nothing normal about the weather. It`s all based on averages, and averages are the product of extremes. You`re going to have down years, you`re going to have extreme years. This is the extreme year.

But I just don`t think it`s a one-shot deal. We had it last year. We have it this year. And I certainly think this is a decadal shift, where it`s at least for the next decade that we`re in this warming cycle. And as I mentioned on this show with you, Nancy, yesterday, I honestly don`t believe it`s this global warming stuff that`s coming into play. I do believe in global warming. I just don`t think it`s the underlying factor why we`re seeing the shift.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I identified myself as a nurse. They waved me on through and asked me to go help triage some patients. So when I came up to the scene, there were about 14 patients on the service road, pretty traumatized, lots of cuts, burns, some bruises, some smoke inhalation, lots of people looking for spouses or their friends, wanting to get calls out to their family, letting them know they`re OK, a lot of people dealing with the fact they know the person sitting next to them didn`t make it off. So pretty emotional.

MAYOR BILL WHITE, HOUSTON, TEXAS: Now, those people in those areas at risk should not get on the highways to evacuate. As Judge Eckels said this morning, now is not the time to begin your evacuations. People should prepare to shelter in place, if they have not evacuated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Ernie Allen, we learned a lot after Katrina. Everybody, Ernie Allen, with the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. What resources are there for people to search for missing family members? And Ernie, you know, a lot of evacuees from New Orleans went to Houston, went to Texas, and now they`re being reevacuated again.

ALLEN: Nancy, we`ve had 4,100 reports of missing children separated from their families. We`ve found about 1,200 of them. We`ve got a hotline. The Justice Department has asked us to use that same resource for Rita victims who are separated from a their families. But there`s a real challenge here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. Tonight, Hurricane Rita bearing down on the Gulf Coast. It`s a cat 3, over 120 miles an hour.

Straight to Mark Sudduth, hurricane chaser. He is joining us. Mark, welcome. Have you ever seen two big hurricanes in less than a month?

MARK SUDDUTH, HURRICANE CHASER: No, not like this. This is very unprecedented. And I think Americans have sort of come to realize how vulnerable we are to these big natural pieces of nature.

GRACE: Mark, why...

SUDDUTH: Sorry, a double positive there.

GRACE: Mark, why did you start chasing hurricanes?

SUDDUTH: Well, let me tell you, Nancy, I grew up in eastern North Carolina, exposed to very dynamic weather as a kid. My dad and my science teacher in the 8th grade both sort of inspired me to learn more about my surroundings -- you know, nature, science, hurricanes, weather in general. And I just thought it would be really neat to be able to study these huge natural phenomenons that make so many people have to run for their lives. I wanted to learn more about them.

GRACE: Well, Mark, what do you think about Rita?

SUDDUTH: Well, let me tell you what I`m glad about Rita. I`m glad that Rita has weakened from where it was. I enjoy studying hurricanes, I do not enjoy the pain and the sorrow that I saw on people as I left after Hurricane Katrina. I think that Rita will still be a very damaging hurricane, but we are, hopefully, as it looks now, not going to see perhaps anything to what we saw with Katrina.

GRACE: Joining me now, special guest Vic Campanella. He is a hero. Campanella helped pull passengers from the bus accident just before a bus exploded, killing over 20 seniors trying to evacuate. Welcome, Vic. Thank you for being with us. I think I`ve got Vic with me on the phone?

VIC CAMPANELLA, PULLED PASSENGERS OUT BEFORE BUS EXPLODED: Thank you very much.

GRACE: Hi. Hi, sir. So what were you doing when you saw the bus accident?

CAMPANELLA: Could you repeat that, please?

GRACE: Sure. What were you doing when you saw the bus?

CAMPANELLA: My wife and I were on our way to have breakfast, and the normal route we take, 45, was blocked off, so we took the exit where the bus happened to be.

GRACE: And how many passengers were on the bus, Mr. Campanella?

CAMPANELLA: Just guessing, somewhere around 45 or so. The bus was pretty full.

GRACE: What did you do? What did you do?

CAMPANELLA: When we first got there, my wife called 911 to report it. And we noticed that no one was doing anything in the bus. They were just sitting there. And the right rear part of the bus was blazing. And I went on over in that direction to find out why the people weren`t coming off. And when I got to the bus, they were -- I guess the medical assistants with the people were trying to get this one woman off the bus, and that`s when I realized that they were all handicapped elderly people. They couldn`t get off on their own.

GRACE: Vic, how many people did you get off that bus?

CAMPANELLA: I was able to get four people off. I made five trips to the bus. The fifth trip, the -- that was at the point where the bus was completely full of smoke, and there was no sound in there and I couldn`t see anything at all.

GRACE: Did you get hurt during this?

CAMPANELLA: (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Were you injured during this, trying to rescue other people?

CAMPANELLA: No, I wasn`t.

GRACE: Thank God in heaven. Were there other citizens also helping to get people out of the bus?

CAMPANELLA: There were two other fairly young men that stopped after we had, and they came out there and they were also going onto the bus, taking people off, as many as they could.

GRACE: Twenty-four dead. I`m speaking with Vic Campanella, helped pull passengers off the bus accident just before the bus exploded. Sir, thank you for being with us.

Of course, Rita hasn`t even touched down yet, already 24 dead. Let`s go straight out to CNN correspondent Rick Sanchez. Rick, what can you tell us? He`s at Lake Charles, Louisiana, everyone.

RICK SANCHEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Nancy. We`re going to turn the picture around, so you can see it now. You should be able to see me now. We`re trying to keep our gear as dry as we possibly can because this is just the beginning of this, but we`re already starting to feel the wind come through.

You can barely make it out, but behind me is Lake Charles. The bridge that goes over is I-10. Nancy, you`re not going to believe this, but we`ve been talking to neighbors who are still in their homes here, who feel safe in their homes, although that obviously would be questioned by many of the authorities. They`re telling us they`ve been trying to convince a man who is right now in those waters on an 18-foot sailboat from getting out. But he doesn`t want to. He feels like he can ride this storm out inside that sailboat.

I went out there a little while ago. There`s this pier that heads out there, and before the winds and the surf got too bad, I went out and I tried to talk to him (INAUDIBLE) for him. I tried but couldn`t get his attention. Nonetheless, he`s obviously in a very, very difficult situation.

My experiences with these types of hurricanes, these types of wind conditions and these types of waters -- you can`t see it, perhaps, but I can describe for you that the water is now breaking over Lake Charles in an area that`s like a small precipice here. And it`s breaking up over between seven to ten feet, and this thing is really just getting started. We might be getting hurricane-force wind gusts, but we`re not getting hurricane- force sustained winds, at this point.

Lake Charles is a very vulnerable area, Nancy because we`re in the strong side of the storm. The water`s going to be pushed in from the Gulf. And for those who know the geography of this area, there`s a real good probability that this area, the waters will rise and we`ll get flooding all throughout here. So that`s the situation here in Lake Charles, Nancy. I think I might be able to hear you, if you want to give me a shot.

GRACE: Yes, Rick. Everybody, Rick Sanchez is with us at Lake Charles, Louisiana. Rick, have most of the residents there evacuated?

SANCHEZ: Yes, I would say that at least 70 percent to 80 percent of the people in this town are gone, possibly more. However, we have run into people in their homes who feel like because they have generators, because their homes, they feel, are high enough, that they`re going to try and ride the storm out.

Now, if you go by the numbers, it`s quite a risky proposition that they`re taking because if this thing comes in at high tide, which is expected tomorrow, around 1:00 or 2:00 AM, and the storm surge is between 13 and 20 feet, plus the high tide, there is no way in the world that most of these homes will not be feeling the storm surge, if not actually inundated in some parts.

Now, obviously, it depends on the area, it depends on the parts, but this is an area that has a history of flooding. So it`s very likely that we`ll see some flooding, if not massive flooding, in this area, depending upon how strong the storm is, if it stays on its course and if it comes in on high tide -- Nancy.

GRACE: And Rick, as long as I can talk to you -- everybody, Rick Sanchez in Lake Charles, Louisiana. Rick, what kind of a hit are they predicting there in Lake Charles?

SANCHEZ: Well, you have to understand that right now, it looks like the storm is going to cut the border between Louisiana and Texas, essentially coming down through Beaumont. If you understand hurricanes and how they work and the way that they turn, we`re going to be on the strong side of the hurricane. That`s why we`re using our mobile unit to try and get on this side of the storm to see just what it can do.

Lake Charles is an area that`s vulnerable because it`s on that side of the hurricane, because it`s going to get some of the maximum-force winds, and because it`s going to get the most push of water. That`s what you hear these meteorologists always referring to as the storm surge. It`s essentially the wind pushing the water right into the land. It`ll push it into this body of water that is behind me. Lake Charles is what it is. So is the city called Lake Charles. They both have one and the same name. And that`s why they`re very much concerned that there`s going to be massive flooding here.

They don`t know if it`s going to happen, but they say if there`s an area where they can see a lot of flooding, this is one of those areas they`re most concerned about. And that`s the reason we`re trying to give you this shot here -- Nancy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: To top it all off, as a result of the hurricanes and impending Rita, gas prices skyrocketing, many of the refineries closed down.

Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Let`s go straight out to CNN correspondent and anchor Ali Velshi. Ali, explain to us what`s happening regarding gas prices and the refineries.

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Nancy, you were just looking at the picture. We took those shots a couple weeks ago, when we were over Baytown refinery, just south of Houston. It`s like a city. It is one of the refineries, the biggest one in the country. It`s one of the ones that is shut down now because of Rita. Now, five million barrels of oil go through those refineries every day and come out on the other side as diesel, jet fuel, gasoline, stuff like that. Fifteen of those refineries are shut down because of Rita. Another four remain shut down because they were damaged by Katrina.

You know, we use a lot of gas, and we don`t -- we can`t afford to have five million barrels not becoming gas every day. So supply and demand. We still want as much gas, not as much of it`s coming through. And that`s going to come through at the pump and hurt us.

GRACE: Ali, what is the impact of Rita on the energy industry?

VELSHI: It`s huge because it underscores the fact that we don`t have enough refineries. We haven`t built one in 30 years in this country. They`re dirty, smelly. Nobody wants one around. But we start paying these kind of prices for gas. That means we`re not paying it for something else. It means you`re not spending that money that you use for gas and natural gas to heat your house and heating oil on something else. You spend less on presents for somebody, you spend less on clothes, washing machines, things like that. And that hurts the economy.

Some people say if enough things come together at the right time, it starts to affect the way the consumer spends, and that`s the kind of thing that triggers a recession.

GRACE: Ali Velshi is staying with us.

I just got word they`re calling off public school Monday and Tuesday in Georgia to save energy. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOPHIA CHOI, ANCHOR: Hello, I`m Sophia Choi, and here`s your HEADLINE PRIME NEWS BREAK. Hurricane Rita is still a strong Category 3 storm, packing 125 miles an hour winds as it moves closer to shore. It`s eye is still more than 100 miles off the coast of Galveston, Texas this hour.

While Rita has lost some strength today, forecasters warn residents to take this storm seriously. It`s expected to come ashore between Galveston and the Texas/Louisiana border early Saturday.

In New Orleans, wind and rain have breached two of the city`s levees, allowing water to just gush into the impoverished Ninth Ward. The Army Corps of Engineers is on the scene of the biggest breach with loads of dirt and rocks.

And Hurricane Katrina victims will be getting a share of the $258 million mega jackpot. The New Jersey couple who bought the winning ticket says they`re giving some of the winnings to help the evacuees. How nice.

That`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to Nancy Grace.

NANCY GRACE, ANCHOR: 1900, the single worst natural disaster to occur in this country, according to many, the hurricane that hit Galveston. Death toll, six to 12,000 people. Tonight, Hurricane Rita, bearing down again on Galveston and the Gulf coast. Straight back to Ali Velshi, CNN correspondent and anchor.

Already, Ali, I`ve got word from Georgia today that school has been called off, Monday and Tuesday, public schools. Why? Energy. They`re trying to save energy. They told me that in 30 minutes, gas prices in one area went up 20 cents. Are there going to be shortages?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are going to be shortages in certain areas. We already know around Houston and the roads leading out of Houston, they`re out of gas. And the oil companies, the state of Texas and FEMA all working very hard to get gas back in there, at least for emergency service personnel.

But those are shortages because the average gas station has 10,000 gallons of gas in a reservoir underneath and maybe they get a fill-up once a week. Well when this happens, when everybody needs gas at the same time, they don`t get filled up. There aren`t enough trucks to get out there and put that gas in. That`s not the same as a gas shortage.

Now, there are pipelines that have been shut down that are taking gas and jet fuel and diesel across the country. There`s one main one that takes 600,000 barrels a day of that stuff to Chicago where it gets distributed around the Midwest. That`s been shut down. Others have been shut down. So they`re not shortages. What we don`t want to do is have people panic by going to gas stations.

GRACE: I`m panicked!

VELSHI: I hear you, and it`s hard to tell people not to panic, because that`s -- we run on this stuff. If we run out of gas, if anybody even thinks we`re running out of gas, that scares people a lot. I`m here to tell you we`re not running out of gas right now. Yes, some places will run out of gas on a very short-term basis.

We`ve spoken to the big oil companies. They say, listen, we`re -- we want to sell this stuff. They are rushing their trucks to wherever they can to get gas back in the ground. But I don`t know about this Georgia thing, Nancy. It`s -- I think Sonny Perdue`s heart is in the right place, but I don`t think if keeping kids back from school is a good idea, Nancy.

GRACE: Ali Velshi is staying with us. Very quickly to Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Elizabeth, let`s go live to Lake Charles, Louisiana, while we still have this satellite. Sanjay Gupta, how are the hospitals in Texas getting ready for this?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it`s not been easy, Nancy, at all. As you can see here, probably behind me, the conditions are starting to get worse. The name of the game over the past several hours before the weather got so bad was to try to get the patients out of here.

And you can see, I mean, they had helicopters, U.S. Army helicopters actually landing next to the hospital in this graveyard, actually moving the patients as quickly as they could through the hospital, outside the hospital, into those helicopters.

But not everybody could get out, Nancy, and that`s just the way it goes sometimes. The weather caught up with them. A few critically ill patients are going to remain in the hospital. It became one of those situations where you had to decide, was it too risky to try to move these patients, or was it better to try and keep them here?

Right now, they`re erring on the side of keeping them here. They can`t move anyway because of the weather. And they`re hoping that they don`t lose electricity. They`re hoping that they don`t lose the water. They`re hoping that they retain plumbing and that they can continue to take care of the patients. But it is getting a little bad out here, Nancy.

GRACE: Sanjay is with us from Lake Charles, Louisiana. Sanjay, are most of the hospitals evacuating?

GUPTA: Yes, most of the hospitals are evacuating. I think there`s only one or two in this whole area that are actually remaining open. And I should point out as well, that this particular hospital, Christus Hospital, has decided they`re going to stay open so that if there are injuries from people who decided to stay in this part of the country, that they can actually come to this hospital and be treated for the injuries.

There`s a gentleman back in the E.R. right now, for example, who has a significantly broken leg who`s going to get treated here at this hospital. They`re staying open. It`s going to be a busy, maybe ugly night, but that`s their plan at this time anyway, Nancy.

GRACE: Sanjay, are the hospitals built to withstand gale force winds?

GUPTA: Very good question, and several different contingencies. Yes, in so many ways, they are built to withstand certain force winds. They also take other contingencies, like putting their generators above sea level so they don`t short out. They stockpile food and water. They have lots of staff, nurses available to try and take care of patients in the hospital and anybody else that might come in.

Having said all that, you know, we learned a lot from Katrina. A lot of the hospitals down there thought they were ready as well. It`s impossible to predict, really, all the things that could happen. I`ll give you one example. For example, irMD+IN_rMDNM_n a hospital, they have a lot of pressurized oxygen. They keep diesel fuel in there. These are necessary things for a hospital but they can also be very dangerous things in the face of a storm, of a hurricane.

GRACE: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, standing by in Lake Charles, Louisiana. There at a hospital, many people not evacuating. Now, to Galveston, Texas, standing by, Sean Callebs. Sean, what`s the weather, what`s the condition like there in Galveston?

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well you can see we`re being hit by some of the outer bands of the storm. It`s not horrific at this point. It`s certainly a very anxious time for the people in the narrow barrier island. A lot of people, they saw this thing winding up in the Gulf in the past couple of days. They knew it was very powerful, perhaps a Category 5 at one time.

About 60,000 people live here. Well, we can tell you a huge percentage off this island, further inland and safe this evening. Good work by the mayor`s office as well as many other city officials. Couple of reasons for that.

Firstly, those vivid images we saw from the New Orleans area and all those people who had to suffer, arguably, could have been handled much, much better. While the people in Galveston didn`t want that to happen, they put the evacuation notice out very early.

They literally went door to door for many people, they know are invalids. They moved people from hospitals. They moved people from nursing homes. They moved people from retirement homes.

And secondly, just the history of this island, Nancy -- you touched on it earlier. The hurricane back in 1900 killing at least 6,000 people. Well, there`s a statue, right in front of the sea wall down here, a tribute to all those who perished. And we talked to some officers and they said when they went through their training, they had to meet there every morning, do push-ups and sit-ups there, and they had to read the message on the bottom of that so they had to become very familiar with that.

Certainly, nobody ever wants anything like that to happen here again. We spent some time with an officer yesterday. She said the first thing she did was move her grandparents out of here and her two children out of here and she said if she had her way, she`d move out of here as well. But tonight, she`s in a hotel right here.

This is where the emergency operations center is headquartered. We know there are legions -- legions -- of police officers, medical officials, military officials in there tonight. As soon as this storm blows through, they`re going to begin moving out and assessing the damage to this area.

There`s some low lying flood flooding already, both the west and east ends of this island. That`s because the flood wall is only ten miles long. This island is 31 miles long.

We know the power`s gone out. It went out here at this hotel a short while ago. But certainly nothing compared to what we`re going to see here throughout the evening. They tell us, Nancy, the hurricane winds are three hours away. So it`s going to get punishing here before the night`s over.

GRACE: Sean Callebs is joining us from Galveston, Texas. Sean, how far up the sea wall is the water?

CALLEBS: It`s not too bad right now. We can`t see now, obviously, because it`s dark, but we were out there a while ago and the sea is really kicking up. The Gulf of Mexico, whitecaps, a couple of hundred yards out there. They`re not going to get the storm surge they were panicked about.

They thought that the low end of the island was going to be under 28 feet of water. The sea wall -- they thought it was going to be breached sometime in the evening and the water wash over and basically meet water from the bay and flood a large percentage of this island.

The best estimates they have right now, they expect that that storm surge is going to push between seven and 10 feet up. And if that happens, that`s going to be good news for these people, because it`s on the western edge of this storm, and they aren`t going to get it nearly as bad as they had.

But remember, this is a barrier island and it`s going to be somewhat significant before the night`s over.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

R. DAVID PAULISON, ACTING FEMA DIRECTOR: We have already moved some fuel into state of Texas, 7,500 gallons of diesel fuel we moved in last night and also several tankers full of fuel. And the Department of Defense is also standing by ready to move fuel in if we need it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We`ll be right back with Sean Callebs in Galveston in one moment. We`re getting that satellite up for you to Ali Velshi, CNN correspondent and anchor. Ali, are people starting to steal gas already? Rita hasn`t even hit.

VELSHI: Yes, I thought that was a college prank or something, but honestly -- and this isn`t a joke. I`ve heard this from Pep Boys, from Bank of America. This is a locking gas cap. These are selling out. Retailers are reporting four times normal sales on gas caps to lock your gas in your car so someone can`t steal your gas, can`t put a siphoning hose on it and suck on it and take -- I mean, unbelievable.

This what is it`s come to. People are stealing, or at least people think people are stealing gas. I can`t report that I`ve had one incident that I`ve actually confirmed that someone`s stealing gas or that somebody can confirm for me, but these things are flying off the shelves.

And you can see why. Look at the gas prices. We talk about a national average gas price of $2.79 a gallon. Nobody pays the national average. People in California have been paying three bucks for more than a month, in Hawaii, $3.37. Here in New York, I haven`t seen it under three bucks in a long time.

Where you are, in Atlanta, we saw it going up over $5 at some gas stations right after Katrina. So people are paying a lot of money for gas, and this is what -- these are the kind of things that could be consequences.

GRACE: Ali, you told me not to panic, and here you are with a lock for your gas cap that you got at Pep Boys.

VELSHI: Yes, journalistically. Look, the reason I say not to panic is because the panicking does contribute to the raise in price.

GRACE: The panicking -- when you keep telling me don`t panic, don`t panic, it makes everyone -- the whole set`s panicking.

VELSHI: No, I know. It`s kind of like telling somebody to relax when they`re up in your face. But that`s exactly it. If we can just hold back a little bit, the gas stations -- it`s very weird. Everything else you buy in life, you buy a tomato, you`re paying what the retailer paid for it plus a markup. We accept that that`s the way we do business.

In a gas industry it`s different. When a gas station sells you 20 gallons per gas, they mark the price up for what they`re going to pay when they replace the gas. It`s backwards.

GRACE: OK, let me ask you this. We`re waiting to get hooked up back to Galveston, everybody. Ali, we`re in Iraq. We`ve got control of the refineries there. Explain to me how it is that since we got control of the gas there, the gas prices have gone up?

VELSHI: Yes, part of it is we consume a lot of gas. American drivers make up -- consume -- 10 percent of all the oil that is consumed every day in the world is just for us to drive. So we do use an awful lot of gasoline.

GRACE: Not me. I got rid of my car, so don`t point the finger up here.

VELSHI: But around you, you probably know a lot of people who buy bigger and bigger and bigger SUVs. I mean, it`s the popular -- that`s our love of the road. That`s how we show it. The rest of the world has changed. The rest of the world starts driving small cars. They`re fuel efficient. They`re getting better at it. We don`t.

GRACE: And Ali, very quickly, could you tell me how much of the U.S. refineries are going to be affected by Rita?

VELSHI: Twenty-five percent.

GRACE: Oh.

VELSHI: Oh, yes. No, this is serious.

GRACE: OK, I`ve got Sean Callebs. Sean, are you with me?

CALLEBS: Yes, I am, Nancy.

GRACE: Sean, explain to me what your plan is. You`re right in the path of danger. How long do you plan to stand there with a mic in your hand?

CALLEBS: I have a certain degree of ballast to me, Nancy. But really, we`re not going to stay out here and do anything foolish. What they`re expecting here are winds of somewhere between 75 and perhaps 90 miles per hour. It`s not going to be nearly as bad as places we`ve seen Rob Marciano earlier tonight, Anderson Cooper -- those people are on the east side of the storm. And it`s kind of like someone raring back to punch.

As the winds come in from that area, they`re very punishing. But as it moves around and comes back in from the west, they really diminish greatly. The thing that`s against us, we`re on just this narrow strip of island. And usually, people get off barrier islands immediately.

We took a certain degree of calculated risk. We are aware -- I want to point out where the emergency operation center is, and there are loads of people who are very skilled in forecasting these. They deal with emergencies daily. And we`re probably on the highest place on this island.

It`s basically a mound that`s been pushed up that I would say is at least 20, 25 feet above the sea wall where we are. And they`re expecting a surge of somewhere between seven and ten feet, so it`s so it`s probably not going to breach that sea wall where we are. So certainly ...

GRACE: Well, hold on, Sean. I couldn`t hear you. What kind of storm surge do you expect?

CALLEBS: They are saying, a storm surge of somewhere between seven and ten feet. Now, when we talked a couple nights ago, they were terrified it was going to be 25 to 30 feet. So that`s a lot better. It`s not going to be nearly as punishing as people thought, but there are some really unprotected areas.

We`ve seen a lot of developments, some really high end homes go up on the west end of this island. And you know what? I`m going to go down to look at those tomorrow and I`ll be surprised if those made it through -- get through this storm intact.

Not because of the winds that are going to kick up -- we`re expecting hurricane force winds the next couple hours, but because of the storm surge. It`s going to come through and last for such a long time, that it will probably erode those foundations despite pilings that are pushed down well into the earth -- Nancy.

GRACE: Back to Caryn Stark, psychotherapist. Caryn, the people of New Orleans the ones that survived are just getting back on their feet. Many of them evacuated. And now, Rita has already gone the -- the rain from Rita has already broken the levees again there in the Ninth Ward.

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Nancy, that`s a really good point because what`s happening to the people in New Orleans, I have no doubt, is that they`re going through some kind of post-traumatic stress. And this will just add for it.

What you hope is that as this happens, they`ll go on automatic pilot and they will just have to react to the here and now. Post-traumatic stress happens because it`s after the event so they`ll go through this and then be more traumatized.

GRACE: To WABC weatherman, Sam Champion, a special guest joining us by phone. Sam, could you explain to us, when we keep talking about storm surge, what is it?

SAM CHAMPION, WABC WEATHERMAN: Well, Nancy, usually when you`ve got a hurricane remember you`re talking about what the center of it is. Low pressure so basically its force or its pressure on the ocean creates a bulge or a little lift, usually kind of in the direction it`s moving, a little bit out in front.

So you just have to picture a like a little mound of water, you know, as if it were actually, you know, just like a little dirt mound, but water. And it`s being pushed by the winds of the storm, by the movement of the storm. So it`s being pushed by the winds of the storm, by the movement of the storm, so it`s being pushed directly where the eye is going ahead of the eye.

So it is only going to really be applicable in the area that`s right near the eye strike and slightly to the east of that in this case. Because the worst part of a hurricane or a storm is that northeastern section.

And the way I describe it to everybody that I`m kind of teaching it to is if you look at a clock, and it`s split, you know, with the hours around it, the worst part of a hurricane is from 12 to 3. So if you look at the storm and it`s moving on shore that`s where you`re going to get your worst storm surge.

And the storm surge is going to differ depending on the strength of the storm, depending on the amount of pressure and the amount of wind that`s being exerted on the ocean. That`s going to make the difference in how much water is moving ahead of that storm.

GRACE: WABC weather expert Sam Champion joining us by phone. Sam, thank you.

To Rene Rockwell (ph). Rene, we already know of three looting arrests and the hurricane hasn`t even hit yet. But people are refusing to evacuate specifically because of looters. Should they bear any legal repercussions?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t think there should be any repercussions for people who don`t want to evacuate Nancy, but this is now -- remember, this is a different kind of lotting than the individuals that were looting after Katrina because they needed food or water. These are simply opportunistic thieves and thugs that are getting in there before anything even starts to break loose and they`re taking advantage of the situation.

GRACE: I want to go back to Jim Kosek, senior meteorologist with AccuWeather. Jim, we know -- we can kind of pinpoint when we think Rita is going to hit. Is there any likelihood she will weaken or gain strength as she approaches land?

JIM KOSEK, SENIOR METEOROLOGIST, ACCUWEATHER: I don`t think it`s in a scenario where it`s going to be gaining strength here for the rest of the night, Nancy, and the reason that I say that is because it`s most likely running out of room, if you will. The water shelf, the depth of water, is going shallower and shallower as it gets closer to land. At the same time, the pressure has been coming up, so it`s a little bit of interaction off the land mass. So the end result, it should weaken slightly but still Category 3 when it makes landfall shortly after midnight near Port Arthur, Texas -- Nancy.

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GRACE: Buckle your seat belts. Hurricane Rita set to hit within hours. Already, 24 dead trying to evacuate and looters already behind bars. Those trying to leave after 5:00 p.m. were told forget about it. Go to a shelter. It`s too late, you can`t make it out.

Very quickly to senior meteorologist at AccuWeather, Jim Kosek. Jim, which areas are looking at the most devastating hits?

KOSEK: In terms of storm surge, it`s going to be 50 miles east of the center. So for Port Arthur, Orange area on into the southwest corner of Louisiana, Lake Charles and Kalkashoo (ph), also the parishes south of there -- Cameron Parish almost escaping there -- but also Galveston Island here. With that northeast wind, East Bay, Galveston Bay backs up so from north to south, most of the Galveston Island will also flood. So I`d be very, very cautious through this whole corridor -- Nancy.

GRACE: Ernie Allen with National Center of Missing and Exploited Children, are you bracing for more missing people, the same way it happened after Katrina?

ERNIE ALLEN, CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Well, we`re not sure. We`re certainly prepared. We`re working with Texas law enforcement. The flooding in New Orleans is what displaced so many people who were left behind, but we`re ready.

GRACE: And to Sean Callebs, what can you tell me about curfews and looting? Sean, are you with me? Sean Callebs, are you with me? OK, we`ve lost Sean Callebs. I can hear him faintly.

And very quickly to Ali Velshi. Ali, if all of these refineries are shut down now, you said 25 percent of the oil for our country goes through there. What`s the worst economic impact scenario?

VELSHI: Well, they`re shut down. The best scenario right now is that very little happens and they come back online very quickly. The worst case scenario is that this thing gets right into the path of a few of these refineries and damages them and we have a problem because we can`t get enough gas out there. Gas prices will go up high enough that people will ration will their own consumption of gas, and that`s how it will come back down. After awhile it just becomes too much money -- Nancy.

GRACE: Ali, thank you and thank you to all of my guests. Biggest thank you to you for being with us as we were bracing for Rita. Coming up, headlines around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace, signing off. I`ll see you again live at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Until then, goodbye.

ERICA HILL, ANCHOR: Hi everyone, I`m Erica Hill.

MIKE GALANOS, ANCHOR: And I`m Mike Galanos. PRIME NEWS TONIGHT is coming up, and we`ve got full coverage of Hurricane Rita, now just hours away from making landfall. It`s expected to remain a Category 3 storm when it hits and we`ve got the latest on its track.

HILL: Plus, New Orleans already feeling the effects of Rita. Storm surge has pushed water over several of the city`s weakened levees, flooding low lying neighborhoods which were just recently dry. Is the city prepared for the worst, again? We`ll bring you the latest in a live report from New Orleans.

GALANOS: Rita could have a major economic impact well beyond the energy industry. What you pay for everything from good to plastic products to airline flights could all be affected. A look at Rita`s economic punch ahead. And we`ll also talk to a woman who tried to get out Lake Charles, Louisiana but couldn`t. She is stranded directly in the storm`s path.

HILL: Frightening stuff there. All those stories and much more coming up. Please stay with us. PRIME NEWS TONIGHT is coming up next.

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