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Nancy Grace

Search for Taylor Behl Turns Desperate

Aired September 27, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, we need your help. The search for 17- year-old Virginia Commonwealth freshman Taylor Behl turns desperate. Does a 38-year-old photographer sitting behind bars tonight on 16 counts of child pornography know where is Taylor?
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Tonight, we go live to uncover whether the big three insurance companies in this country are refusing to pay the victims of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina. Billions of dollars at stake for these victims.

Plus, moms and dads, beware. A 13-year-old babysitter on trial for homicide in the death of a beautiful baby girl. Cause of death? Shaken baby syndrome.

But first tonight, the search rages for a beautiful 17-year-old Virginia Commonwealth University student, Taylor Behl, Taylor missing since Labor Day. A man interviewed in connection with Taylor`s case, a 38-year- old photographer, Ben Fawley, just arraigned on 16 counts of child pornography. Tonight, no bond.

Let`s go straight out to "Inside Edition`s" Jim Moret. Jim, bring us up to date.

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": The person that you were showing there, Nancy, Ben Fawley, looks very different than the Ben Fawley that admitted that he knew Taylor Behl. This is a 17-year-old college student who`s been missing since September 5. Yesterday, Ben Fawley, who was questioned and originally called a "person of interest" in this young girl`s disappearance, was arranged and held without bond on 16 counts of child pornography. That`s as a result of child pornography being found on the computer that was seized from his home after a search was conducted following the disappearance of this young girl.

This person admits that he has had a sexual relationship with Taylor Behl and says that he saw her 9:30 the night she disappeared. But there are a number of inconsistencies, and frankly, a number of questions that authorities have because this person, Ben Fawley, who`s 38 years old and actually meets young girls on a Web site and posts various messages to young college students -- they want to know why he also filed a report that he was abducted on September 6, prior to the time Taylor Behl reported missing, and says that he was beaten up, taken to some undisclosed location and then left.

And one of the questions is, Is that a potential alibi for this person?

GRACE: Hey, everybody. Take a look at this guy, Fawley. There he is. Thanks, Elizabeth (ph). This is what I was getting at. You know, I`ve looked at his on-line Web site. I`ve looked at a lot of sites where his photo is posted, where he`s posted photos of himself. He always has the long flowing bleached blond hair. All right. Why suddenly, after Taylor goes missing, does he chop his hair off and dye it all brunette, Jim?

MORET: Well, I`ll tell you something. When I saw the photo of him after he was taken into custody, I couldn`t believe it was the same person because he was open about posting this Web site of a rather young-looking 38-year-old. He could have passed as a 20-year-old. And here you see him there with long hair, and then he was taken into custody yesterday, looked very, very different.

The question, Was he trying his appearance so he could leave town? Who knows, frankly, but it`s very disturbing to see somebody change their appearance that dramatically. It recalls for me the Peterson trial, where he was...

GRACE: Me, too! Hey, it looks like this guy fell in a friend`s swimming pool, as well. You remember that was Peterson`s story? He changed his look because he fell in a pool and it bleached all of his hair?

MORET: Sure do.

GRACE: Joining us right now, a very special guest. Taylor`s mother is with us, Janet Pelasara. Janet, what date specifically was the last time Taylor was seen? Was it September 5?

JANET PELASARA, MISSING GIRL`S MOTHER: Yes, it was.

GRACE: And that was the night she left her roommate and her date there in the dormitory room and went skateboarding with some friends, right?

PELASARA: Well, we can`t confirm that she left her dorm room and went skating. All we know is that she left her dorm room around 10:30, saying she would be back in three hours.

GRACE: OK. Now, let me get this straight, Jim Moret. I just wanted to clarify that with Taylor`s mom. This guy, Fawley -- what`s his first name? -- Benjamin Fawley, age 38 -- I don`t know why -- what he`s doing with a 17-year-old girl, number one. But he says on September 6 -- September 6, wasn`t it in the early morning hours he claims he was abducted, robbed, beaten up, taken to a dirt road and dumped off?

MORET: Right. And he called the police. He said he made this report at about 5:00 in the morning on September 6. You have to remember that the last time Taylor was seen was the night of September 5, but she wasn`t reported missing until at least 24 hours later. So the only people who would know that Taylor was missing would be those responsible. And obviously, that`s one of the questions. Is this call to police an attempt to create an alibi for that period of time?

GRACE: Here`s what Taylor`s father has to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT BEHL, MISSING GIRL`S FATHER: I would just ask -- because the police, I think, are doing as much as possible. I`m still waiting for the results of forensic tests being done on the car by the FBI. Look around. This child is out there someplace.

His name is Ben Fawley, and he is a 30 -- as you say, a 38-year-old photographer in Richmond.

GRACE: And what do we know about him? What was their relationship?

BEHL: Actually, he was the roommate of a VCU student that Taylor went down to -- when she went down to visit the school in February, he was the roommate of a boy that went to school there at VCU.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Janet Pelasara, Taylor Behl`s mom -- everybody, we are trying desperately to help Janet find her daughter. Elizabeth, can you put up that tip line, please? There you go. Toll-free, 877-244-HELP. Please look at this girl.

Now, Janet, I think, like all of us, we didn`t tell our moms everything. Since you were last with me, have we learned that Taylor had a romantic relationship with Fawley?

PELASARA: Yes. We know that Ben admitted it to the police, to reporters. And Taylor`s closest girlfriends have told me that they had a romantic relationship once, and that was it, that Ben liked Taylor so much more than she`d liked him that she told these friends that he had way too much baggage -- and this is their words that Taylor said -- and that she just didn`t want to have anything more to do romantically with him.

GRACE: So, all right. These two had a very brief sex relationship. This guy`s 38 years old. This is by his admission, OK? Now, I want to point out Fawley is not an official suspect. He`s not. He`s not a suspect in the eyes of the law. At one point, he was a person of interest. He was questioned. He is now in custody on unrelated charges of child pornography.

Michelle Suskauer, let`s say you`re the defense attorney. Your guy`s in a whole heap of trouble. Did you know this guy is a car tag aficionado? Did you know that? He collects car tags. And Taylor Behl`s car tag was removed off her Ford Escort and a stolen tag was put on there.

MICHELLE SUSKAUER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s right. There`s a lot of coincidences here. He also has some mental health issues. I believe he`s on disability. The police know that.

But Nancy, I know they`re claiming that he`s not a person of interest. If I was his defense lawyer, I`d be real concerned about them saying that to the public but that he probably is and if they`re probably going to try their best to get him to confess to doing something. He`s now in custody. And I wouldn`t -- I wouldn`t be surprised if the police tried to question him.

GRACE: Well, of course they`re going to try and question him. That`s how they find -- found the alleged child pornography. They were looking through his apartment, and whoopsie, child pornography, 16 counts!

SUSKAUER: But just because he changed his hair -- this is someone who`s Cooperated. He hasn`t left town. He certainly could have. He`s had plenty of time. And just because he`s decided to change his hair or change the color of his beard doesn`t mean he did it.

GRACE: OK.

SUSKAUER: He certainly confessed that he had a sexual relationship with her...

GRACE: Well, I`m certainly...

SUSKAUER: ... but that doesn`t mean he killed her.

GRACE: I`m certainly not throwing a stone at anybody that changes their hair. I would never! But you said they`re going to question him. Of course. they`re gong to question him. But what concerns me -- you also said that he was cooperating. Maybe you know something I don`t know.

But Jim Moret, didn`t this guy refuse a polygraph at the advice of his lawyer?

MORET: Yes, he did. And it may also be a coincidence that he was arrested and convicted of three counts of assault and battery of a family member. It may also be coincidence that he was convicted of destruction of property. And it`s a strange coincidence that he calls himself a collector of tags, of license plates, and Taylor`s car was found with changed license plates. They may all be coincidences, but you know what? They`re disturbing coincidences.

GRACE: Well, speaking of coincidences, let`s go to high-profile Seattle lawyer Anne Bremner. When she`s defending a guy like this, she refers to them as coinkidence (ph).

(LAUGHTER)

ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yes, coinkidence~!

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Yes, you could put a happy face on this one, but if this is your guy, I`d say you`re in a whole heap of trouble tonight. We asked Fawley`s lawyer on. For some reason, he didn`t want to answer these questions. So stand in for him, Anne.

BREMNER: Well, you know, here`s the thing. Ted Bundy passed a polygraph, so -- polygraphs aside, collecting car tags, you know, who doesn`t? (INAUDIBLE) kind of laugh about it, but a lot of criminals go out and collect car tags and switch license plates and everything else.

This is a guy who`s strange. This is a guy that says, I just want to have fun before I look my age. He -- you know, he`s a very weird person. He changes his hair. And guess what? Nancy, he may be in trouble on what`s really statutory rape by having sex with someone under age. So maybe when he hears she`s missing -- uh-oh, or ruh-roh (ph), as you say -- he has to do something about his appearance.

And again, I`m not one to throw stones about hair, especially my color, which is blond, for the record. So you know, what you have is, where there`s smoke, there`s fire? I don`t think so in this case. This is a case where they say he is no longer a person of interest, but he may be part of the case. And I think they`re telling the truth because there`s nothing there right now. And just because he doesn`t have answers for them doesn`t mean he`s guilty of anything.

GRACE: Take a listen to this. Here`s what cops had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIE FULLER, VCU CHIEF OF POLICE: To date, we have accessed every regional and state police resource that we could in order to determine if we can find her. When she left, she left with her car keys and her car and a credit card. She left other belongings in her dorm room. Her roommate last saw her the previous Monday night at approximately 10:20 PM. And that was the last time that anyone has seen her to date.

We will continue this investigation. To the extent that Taylor returns to either the university or to her family, we will consider it open and ongoing and intensive investigation. We consider this case very, very serious. She`s one of our students. We want her back in school.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And again, I want to extend an invitation to Mr. Fawley`s defense attorney to come on and answer questions. He didn`t want to do that.

You know, back to you, Ms. Pelasara -- this is Taylor`s mom with us -- it`s no wonder that Taylor didn`t want people to know she was dating this guy. I mean, have you looked on line? His on-line nickname is Skulz, S-K- U-L-Z? I nearly fell off my chair when I saw that!

PELASARA: Well, I have a hard time believing that she was dating him.

GRACE: Yes.

PELASARA: I`m hoping that it was an one-time romantic...

GRACE: Fling. A fling.

SUSKAUER: ... encounter. A fling, yes, and that they were friends, that -- you know, there had to have been something that he offered her for her to...

GRACE: Well, she`s a girl!

PELASARA: ... be dating him...

GRACE: She`s a girl!

PELASARA: She is a child, yes.

GRACE: He is a grown man, a photographer, living on his own. She`s just an impressionable young girl, 17 years old. And that leads me to a legal point.

To Michelle Suskauer, if you only have his confession to sex with an underage girl -- in that jurisdiction, anything under 18 is underage -- -I don`t see how prosecutors go forward with just a confession.

SUSKAUER: Just a confession. You may have some -- that may be just the jumping point to some other witnesses coming forward, as well. But his confession that they had sex is not going to be enough.

GRACE: No, no. You cannot prosecute a case with just the defendant`s confession, or every false confession in this country would be prosecuted. There`s got to be something to back it up.

Everybody, we are looking tonight for Taylor Behl, just 17 years old. Her mom is asking for your help. Please help us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELASARA: She left her room, her dorm room, at 10:00 o`clock-ish and told her roommate she`d be back in a couple hours and took her car keys and her student ID. And that`s it. That`s where the story`s ended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELASARA: Whoever knows anything, please come forward and tell what you know. It`s gone on way too long. Taylor needs to be found and needs to be found soon. I believe she`s alive. She`s being held against her will.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. Please help us find Taylor Behl, the 17-year- old Virginia Commonwealth University student missing since Labor Day.

I want to go straight out to forensic psychologist Dr. N.G. Berrill. Dr. Berrill, anecdotally, I have observed that when women are kidnapped or, God forbid, murdered, it is typically by someone that they know or that knows them, be it boyfriend, husband, lover, ex, the grocery delivery boy, the mailman, the next-door neighbor, the guy down the street, somebody that has come in contact with them and has observed them.

N.G. BERRILL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, you`re exactly right, and that`s why this fellow emerges as a likely suspect. Regardless of whether or not the police are suggesting he`s no longer a person of interest, there`s too many aspects to the profile that was presented to suggest that there`s something fishy here. So I doubt they`re just casting him off. I think they`re going to return again, and they`re going to have to probe a little bit more deeply, more thoroughly, to find out what`s going on with this guy.

GRACE: What do you mean by the profile, Dr. Berrill?

BERRILL: Well, look, you have a fellow who`s nearing 40 years of age, and he has a...

GRACE: Hey, hey, hey, hey! Why does that fit into a profile?

(LAUGHTER)

BERRILL: Well, not that in and of itself. But look, he`s collecting pictures of either children or adolescents. He`s interested sexually in this area, self-proclaimed as such. He has a relationship, so he demonstrated it`s not merely a fantasy, but he`s gone ahead and had the interaction, the sexual contact with a minor. So you know, little things like that would raise a lot of suspicion in my mind.

GRACE: And Anne Bremner, have you ever noticed, when cops will make an arrest on another offense of someone they are suspicious of on a greater offense, and once they get them behind bars, as Michelle Suskauer pointed out, they`ll start questioning them, developing a case, and then, bam, down come the charges?

BREMNER: Yes. And classic case, remember the Charles Manson case? Susan Atkins was in jail on an unrelated charge, and she just spilled. And that (INAUDIBLE) the case, of course, led to a prosecution and conviction of everybody involved in Helter Skelter. But you bet. You know, that`s the time to get in and make the case.

GRACE: Yes. And another issue -- to Jim Moret with "Inside Edition" -- this whole story he came up with about being abducted and kidnapped and beaten by unknown assailants, dropped off at the end of a dirt road -- hello? -- within, like, an eight-hour period of when Taylor goes missing? Could that explain bruises, cuts? I don`t -- the whole thing stinks.

Now, let me ask you this, Jim. Have police been able to confirm anything about his abduction?

MORET: No, not as far as we can tell. But there`s something else that`s frankly disturbing because when we talk about his admission that he had sexual relations with this young girl, he says it was on more than one occasion, and he says that the last occasion actually the 5th of September, the night that she went missing. And it doesn`t really match up with the timeline because as I understand it, Taylor had a young boy that she was seeing that she broke up with, a college student she broke up with on September 5, had dinner with him that night, then goes to her room and was last seen at about 10:30.

So for her to have had sex with this man, Ben Fawley, you wonder why he would bring that up. It would then also...

GRACE: OK...

MORET: ... suggest a possibility that he`s trying to lay groundwork for DNA evidence coming up...

GRACE: For a DNA issue.

MORET: Right.

GRACE: Very quickly, to Taylor`s mom. That`s the first I heard that Fawley claims to have had consensual sex with Taylor the night she goes missing. Did you know that?

PELASARA: I`ve heard that. And his stories just keep getting more incredible. And it is -- it seems like he`s just making up all these stories to create alibis for each -- each suspicion that I, certainly, have about him.

GRACE: Could be thrown at him. You`re right.

PELASARA: Right.

GRACE: It sounds more like a preemptive attack on a story that could be leveled at him. Again, Fawley not an official suspect named by police tonight, behind bars on child porn.

Very quickly -- we`ll all be right back -- to "Trial Tracking." Exotic-dancer-turned-TV-star Anna Nicole Smith heads to the Supreme Court. No, not as a nominee. In 1995, 26-year-old Smith married 89-year-old Texas billionaire J. Howard Marshall. He died the following year. According to court documents, Marshall never changed his will. Well, Smith has been fighting Marshall`s son for a widow`s share of the $1.2 billion estate ever since. Well, one court initially awarded Anna Nicole $474 million and was then reversed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNA NICOLE SMITH: And it was Pierce (ph). Pierce is the one that made the orders to not do anything. When the ambulance people came, the first thing they said was, Why was this man not suctioned?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Now the Supremes will decide who gets to be a billionaire.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PELASARA: She`s not a drinker. She`s not a druggie. She is just a good kid, a good, clean, fun, kind of kid, and smart and beautiful. And missing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Taylor Behl is all of that. Elizabeth, there you go, 877-244- HELP, 877-244-HELP.

To Jim Moret with "Inside Edition." You know what? Speaking as a trial lawyer, what I find the most disturbing element of Fawley`s story is this fake attack he cooked up, that police can`t confirm. Around the same time she goes missing and somebody swaps out the tag plates on her car, he claims to have been attacked, kidnapped, beaten and robbed. Unknown assailants. Can`t describe them, nothing. Why?

MORET: Well, it puts him at a different place when this young girl is missing. And you know, you said it earlier. This is a young girl who`s impressionable. These are the same fears, frankly, that I had when I dropped my 18-year-old daughter off at college last year. You worry about this because this person shapes up as a predator. Whether he is or not, I don`t know. But the doctor talked about it earlier, the profile. It`s very disturbing. And if he is trying, and as you called it, a preemptive strike, to give an alibi for various things, it`s all adding up to something very upsetting.

GRACE: Well, Mrs. Pelasara -- this is Taylor`s mom -- as far as being a predator, if there were child porn pictures on his computer, I think the word predator may very well fit him.

MORET: Oh, I completely agree. And they said that the youngest child was 1 or 2 years old and went up to age 14.

GRACE: Everybody, we are looking for Taylor Behl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts, and this is your HEADLINE PRIME newsbreak. Army Private First Class Lynndie England has been sentenced the three years behind bars for her role in the notorious Abu Ghraib abuse case. England was convicted of mistreating prisoners yesterday and today it took a jury just 90 minutes to sentence the 22-year-old reservist. England could have been receiving nine years behind bars.

Lawmakers on Capitol Hill spent the day grilling former FEMA director Michael Brown as part of congressional investigations into the Katrina response. One congressman said Brown was neither qualified nor capable of handling the job. But Brown defended his role, saying state and local officials deserve much of the blame.

You might remember Ashley Smith, the woman who was taken hostage a few months ago by the Atlanta courthouse shooting suspect. Well, in a new book, she admits giving Brian Nichols methamphetamine from her own stash to put him at ease. She says she refused to take any that night. Nichols held her hostage after allegedly going on a shooting spree which left four people dead, including an Atlanta judge.

That is the news for now. Thanks for joining us. I`m Thomas Roberts. We take you back for more of NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If I could tell people, and I know you have to come, but I would not, I would not come. I would not. That ain`t my house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Believe it or not, big insurance companies are now refusing to pay victims` claims after Rita and Katrina. It`s hard to believe, oh, yes, I pay premiums just like you all the time. I`m going to go straight out to Richard Scruggs, trial attorney, he has filed a lawsuit on behalf of many Katrina victims. And this guy, don`t let him be modest, didn`t you handle some of the tobacco litigation?

RICHARD SCRUGGS, FILED LAWSUIT ON BEHALF OF KATRINA VICTIMS: Nancy, I had a hand in it, of course, and I was one of the core group that took on that challenge, which was monumental in a different way from this one. It is unfortunate, quite frankly, that lawyers it looks like are going to be required to force these companies to do the right thing and to stop them from evading the same contractual liability they had to the victims of 9/11. They`re trying to do the same thing to the victims of hurricanes Katrina and Rita.

GRACE: Regarding the tobacco lawsuits, as a nonsmoker, I want to thank you for that.

SCRUGGS: You`re welcome.

GRACE: Now, what got into you? Why did you feel that you had to take on the insurance companies after Rita and Katrina?

SCRUGGS: Well, you know, this is not something I sought out. This was sort of a draft but it`s become an issue of passion for me. My -- the boys and girls, now men and women that I grew up with are family. The photograph right here is my brother-in-law, Trent Lott, of all people, the rubble of his home. And he is being jacked around by the insurance companies just like everyone else. The same guys that tried to evade the contractual obligations to the victims of 9/11 are doing the same thing now here.

GRACE: To Ali Velshi, CNN anchor and reporter, Ali, what`s the loophole, what`s the technicality the insurance companies are using and who are the insurance companies?

ALI VELSHI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we are talking about some of the biggest insurance companies going, Allstate and State Farm are the two big names that...

GRACE: Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Allstate is mine. And State Farm is my family`s. We`re up the creek without a paddle.

VELSHI: I`m talking to a bunch of people who are lawyers and as a financial journalist, I would never tell people not to read through their homeowner documents. But, you know, I`ve got to tell you, I may not well have looked through mine. Here`s the issue. See that water coming through the window?

GRACE: Yes.

VELSHI: Water comes in through the bottom, it`s a flood. Water comes in through the roof during a hurricane, it`s hurricane damage. It`s unclear whether water coming in through the window is one or the other but that`s the issue. Federal flood insurance is.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, whoa, whoa. I have got two legal degrees and you got that one by me. What?

VELSHI: Yes. And if you had your house destroyed, you are really not interested in listening to this argument, but the fact is the insurance companies are saying that if it is a flood, if it is water that comes in, not from damage, not from wind, it`s not the hurricane, it`s the flood that damaged your house. If it`s a flood that damaged your house, they don`t pay. You should have other flood insurance is what the insurance companies are saying.

And that`s what Dickie (ph) Scruggs is going up against. He`s sitting here saying, wait a second, house is destroyed. That`s a clause that may not be familiar. Now, Dickie, I don`t want to speak for you, but is that true?

GRACE: Yes, you would never do that, Ali. To Richard Scruggs, let me get this straight. So the insurance companies, Allstate, State Farm, and who`s the other one, Richard?

SCRUGGS: It`s Nationwide and the gentleman is just misinformed. All of the coastal homeowners from Florida around to Texas have been forced to pay an additional premium for what`s called a hurricane endorsement or hurricane deductible endorsement. And I have got one right here off of an Allstate policy that`s in current force on the Gulf Coast. It`s typical of all three companies. It is a hurricane endorsement that is unique to coastal residents. And if you can see the definition of hurricane, it refers you to the National Weather Service.

Now, here is the National Weather Service`s definition of hurricane. And you will see that the first example there is storm surge in addition to wind.

GRACE: OK. So it has got to be.

SCRUGGS: Yes, it has got.

GRACE: Then I guess, Ali, it has got to be a storm surge. But I guess the gist of what I`m getting from you, Ali, is that it has got to be -- they`re saying the water caused by the hurricane is a flood, not a hurricane?

VELSHI: Yes. And when you`re -- and I really do defer to Mr. Scruggs, because I certainly -- I agree that these are complicated. And if you are going home to a house that has been destroyed, the last thing you need is the technicality of was this a flood, was this a surge that had come in?

The idea that the insurance companies are trying to put forward is that damage caused to your home by rising water or by a flood is something that they say that the homeowners should have had flood insurance through FEMA if you live on a flood plane. That`s what they`re trying to say.

GRACE: OK.

VELSHI: Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood disagrees and says this is a clause. He`s trying to get that excluded. He`s suing to get that clause excluded so that people can claim the damage that`s done. Now here`s what the insurance commissioner in Mississippi is saying, he wants federal money to hire engineers to go and look at every house and determine whether that was a hurricane wind that caused it or rising waters from a flood.

GRACE: Holy moley. Hey, Elizabeth (ph), put up the Allstate response. Let`s be fair to them. Since most homeowners, condominium, mobile home, or renters` insurance policies don`t cover a flood, find out if you`re eligible for a flood insurance policy. And also, Elizabeth, when you can get to it, get me the State Farm response.

With me, also, Joseph Annotti. He is the -- oh, there you go. State Farm offers flood insurance through the National Flood Insurance Program, although the government actually provides the coverage. To Mr. Annotti, he`s the senior vice president of Property Casualties Insurers Association of America.

Mr. Annotti, response?

JOSEPH ANNOTTI, SVP, PROPERTY CASUALTY INSURERS ASSN. OF AMERICA: Well, Nancy, flood insurance has been available from the federal government since before Hurricane Camille hit the Gulf Coast in 1969. That`s almost 40 years. And private insurance has -- insurers have excluded flood damage in very clear language for decades before that happened.

If you read policy, it is crystal clear. I have next to me case law after case law after case law where this policy`s been tried and tested. You know, I think Mr. Scruggs is trying to appeal to people`s emotions in an effort to twist arms and force companies to pay for claims for which premium was never collected.

GRACE: Wait a minute. OK.

ANNOTTI: . and for risk that was never insured.

GRACE: I understand what you`re saying but I need to clarify something in my own mind.

ANNOTTI: OK.

GRACE: Is there hurricane coverage for these people?

ANNOTTI: There is wind damage coverage and there is flood damage coverage. Wind damage coverage is covered under your homeowners` policy. Insurers are out there paying claims every single day since the day after the storm hit.

GRACE: OK. Right, right, right, right, right. Thank you, but I don`t need a history lesson -- go ahead.

ANNOTTI: Flood damage coverage.

GRACE: Yes. That`s what I want to hear about, flood damage coverage.

ANNOTTI: Flood damage coverage is available through the National Flood Insurance Program, has been for almost 40 years. If your home is damaged by a flood, you turn to that policy to get coverage. If you don`t have a flood insurance policy in place, then what you need to do is apply for a grant or a loan to FEMA.

GRACE: OK. Got you, got you, I got it. I would like to just go directly to the questions at hand. And my question is, Hurricane Rita and Hurricane Katrina, wouldn`t you classify them as wind under the wind damage?

ANNOTTI: Much of the damage was in fact caused by wind. And that damage is going to be paid for under the homeowners and business insurance policy contract. It is being paid for every day.

GRACE: OK. Mr. -- let me go back to our attorney, Richard Scruggs. Response?

SCRUGGS: Well, the response of course is that the homeowners policy contains the endorsement that you see in front of you, which wherein the homeowner pays an additional substantial premium for a hurricane endorsement on his policy. And hurricane is defined the way the National Weather Service defines it, as you can see from this particular -- from this particular.

GRACE: We can`t see that piece of paper. So just tell us.

SCRUGGS: Sorry.

GRACE: That`s OK. Just tell me the bottom line on this. Your argument is going to be what?

SCRUGGS: Well, the bottom line is we want these companies to honor their clear contractual undertakings to the homeowners on the coast. Mr. Annotti`s trying to cherry pick a few provisions from the standard homeowners` policy without referring to the hurricane endorsement.

GRACE: Final thought, Ali?

VELSHI: The insurance companies aren`t scared of too much in life. Richard Scruggs might be the one thing that they are scared of. He`s not afraid to take on a lot of things. There might be a compromise here, there might be a middle ground. There`s a congressman who`s trying to get a bill passed to say we want to be able to let these people apply for that flood insurance retroactively and let them get paid out for their flood damage.

GRACE: You know, Ali, I know what you`re telling me makes good business sense, but middle ground? After I saw that video, what after Anderson told me.

VELSHI: The middle ground might let them get the money. The bottom line, it`s only middle ground, but it will let them get their money. It is -- insurance companies, as you know, are not very willing to sit and make compromises because that may lead to something else.

GRACE: Oh, no. Quick break, everybody. A big thank you to our guests tonight. And before we go to break, regarding Taylor Behl, there is a concert set up for October 2 at Jamming Java (ph), to raise money for her reward fund. Right now, it`s up to $14,000. October 2, Jamming Java. Tip line, 877-244 -HELP.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Members of the jury, (INAUDIBLE) your verdict as recorded by the court on the docket number 97443-001 (INAUDIBLE). Is the defendant guilty or not guilty?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Guilty of what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilty of murder in the second degree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A case I won`t soon forget. Louise Woodward, a nanny, an au pair, convicted of murder two in the death of baby Matty Eappen. Well, the judge in that case, Hiller Zobel, quickly overruled the jury and let her walk scot-free. P.S., she became a lawyer in Great Britain. She threw away her legal career in lieu of becoming a salsa dancer instructor. But that`s a whole `nother can of worms. We have got the same scenario playing out on another side of the country. Let`s go straight to "Inside Edition" senior correspondent Jim Moret.

Bring us to date.

MORET: Well, you had opening statements today in a Seattle courtroom in a second degree murder trial of a 13-year-old girl who was babysitting two children. One of those children, a 19-month-old baby girl, died, according to medical examiner, of shaken baby syndrome. And so this girl`s being tried as a juvenile but still for a second degree murder and she could face up to her 21st birthday in custody.

GRACE: And what`s the max, if she is convicted as a juvenile, she would do, Jim?

MORET: Well, she could serve until her 21st birthday, but more likely she would serve about three-and-a-half years in custody. She -- by the way, during the time that after the arrest and prior to the trial, she was allowed to go home because she wasn`t considered a danger or a flight risk, but she did have to wear an electronic monitor but, you know, this is a tragedy for both of these families.

You have this 13-year-old girl`s family and then you have the family of this 19-month-old who has died.

GRACE: Whoa, whoa, hold on. At least the 13-year-old`s family can go and visit her.

MORET: That`s.

GRACE: This baby never even got a chance to live.

MORET: That`s absolutely true, except, you know, you`re talking -- this case is similar to that Louise Woodward case in one regard, but you`re talking about a 13-year-old girl. You have to question the -- whether or not it was smart to leave two babies with a 13-year-old in the first place.

GRACE: Well, yes. But if you want to blame the parents, you could blame every working nobody mother in this country. Let`s just hold on a moment before we go that far, Jim Moret. I want to go Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist.

Doctor, I remember prosecuting shaken baby cases many moons before the Louise Woodward trial, and there are certain indicators that are a dead giveaway, the child died of shaken baby syndrome. Explain.

LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: That`s correct, Nancy. There are certain hallmark trauma that you look for. It can be looked at with X- ray, CT scans, but on autopsy, what you generally see are subdural hemorrhages, that are hemorrhages underneath the dura, a layer that covers the brain.

There is also a swelling of the brain. And, also, there is retinal damage, damage to the back of the eye and sometimes the optic nerve is actually severed due to the shearing forces that is are exerted by shaking a baby.

Generally the babies are younger than this, usually about 6 months or younger. Here we have a 19-month-old baby, a little unusual.

GRACE: Well, with the subdural hemorrhage or simply bleeding around the brain, that could be caused by a lot of things. But this hemorrhage peticei (ph), it`s blood vessels in the brain -- excuse me, in the eyes, everyone. And when the baby is shaken, back and forth and back and forth, the eyes go back and forth in the -- within -- hold on, Doctor. I`m going to go to the defense lawyer.

And in this case, Bryan Hershman, this infant had hemorrhage peticei (ph).

BRYAN HERSHMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That`s true.

GRACE: So what`s the explanation?

HERSHMAN: Retinal hemorrhages are a nonspecific finding. We have not had an opportunity to cross-examine the medical examiner on this point. I have got my own coroner who will take the stand and testify. I`ve done extensive research on shaken baby. It`s a controversial finding. There`s question whether it even exists. That`s why it`s now called shaken-impact syndrome.

It`s not believed that shearing of the brain and subdural hemorrhages can be caused by a simple shaking. That they insist -- current literature insists that blunt force trauma is necessary. That has particular relevance to this case.

GRACE: Yes, I know that your client going to claim that there was an accident and the child hit its head. But after reading this statement, and I`m looking specifically at a document filed in the court, it says not only is there the hemorrhage in the peticia (ph), but she admits to shaking the baby at one juncture.

HERSHMAN: Well, one of the saving graces of this case is that all of her pretrial -- a great majority of her pretrial statements were videotaped. Shaking is not a term that she began to use. And in fact, she`s taken a polygraph on this point and passed. That that phrase was given to her by law enforcement. She further passed the polygraph on whether she ever touched this child in anger, described the entire events of the evening and passed it on that as well.

GRACE: But, of course, you and I both know that unless stipulated, polygraph has no place in court of law. Yet -- but.

HERSHMAN: That`s wrong. That`s wrong. And in fact the judge ruled on that today, the polygraph will come in for limited purposes, namely through my psychologist.

GRACE: OK. You know what? I`ll argue with you about that when we get back from commercial break.

Quickly, to tonight`s "All Points Bulletin," FBI and law enforcement across this country on the lookout for this woman, Hazel Head, wanted in connection with a `98 Louisiana murder of 69-year-old Charles Barker (ph). Head, 55, 5`2", 120 pounds, reddish blond hair, green eyes, scar near the right eye. If you have any info on Head, call the FBI, 318-221-8439.

Local news next for some of you. But we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage tomorrow of the road rage murder, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, COURT TV.

Stay with us as we remember Sergeant Frank T. Carvill, 51, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. During the commercial break, I had a vociferous argument with defense attorney Bryan Hershman who has explained to me now how the polygraph is coming in.

Bryan, as I understand it, the polygraph that your girl, 13-year-old girl, charged with homicide of a baby, is coming in is to support the psychologist`s claim regarding her knowing or voluntary statement, right?

HERSHMAN: In order for a custodial statement to come in, it has got to be knowing and voluntary waiver of a fundamental right to remain silent. So there is an issue that the forensic psychologist will testify to about that taking into account the polygraph as well the doctor.

GRACE: Got you.

HERSHMAN: . of false confession.

GRACE: Now give me a best shot, Bryan. What is your case for factual innocence?

HERSHMAN: Well, for factual innocence, my client really hasn`t confessed to anything. My client, as evidenced by the testimony today in court, she has repeatedly used the word "wiggle." She has not used the word "shake." That was introduced by police officers. I want you to imagine, they kept this 13-year-old girl up through the night.

GRACE: But how did the baby get peticei (ph) hemorrhage and a blow to the back of the head? Explain to me. I want to believe you.

HERSHMAN: There`s one of several things that happened. Either this is self-inflicted or.

GRACE: It`s a baby.

HERSHMAN: May I finish?

GRACE: Yes.

HERSHMAN: Or my client did it unwittingly, thinking she was trying to help the child or somebody else did it. And there were two other people who had access to her during the same time period.

GRACE: And who would that be?

HERSHMAN: You know, I feel uncomfortable going in that direction.

GRACE: Isn`t one of them a 5-year-old sibling?

HERSHMAN: No, no, no, no, no. This is a mother and a boyfriend.

GRACE: OK. I`m sorry. I thought they were at the grocery store while your client was babysitting.

HERSHMAN: That`s what the prosecution would have you believe. Unfortunately, you can`t take a moment in time and say this is exactly when this incident took place.

GRACE: OK.

HERSHMAN: We believe there`s 24 to 36 hours wherein this incident may have taken place. And that`s what our testimony will be.

GRACE: Right, you know, that`s the argument that was used by Scheck in Louise Woodward, that there was a preexisting injury.

OK, everybody, we`ll be watching the trial. Bryan Hershman, defense attorney, and Jim Moret, chief correspondent on "Inside Edition," keeping us up-to-date. Thank you to all of my guests Anne, Michelle, Dr. Kobilinsky. But my biggest thank you is to you for being with us and letting all of us come into your homes tonight.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world. Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace signing off again tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. What a day in America`s courtrooms. Good night, friend.

END