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American Morning

Former FEMA Chief Mike Brown Grilled; In New Orleans, Man Who Led Police During Darkest Hour Leaving the Job

Aired September 28, 2005 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A scorching session before members of Congress. Former FEMA chief Mike Brown grilled for his decisions after Katrina, getting plenty of blame and dishing some out, too. We're live in Washington for the political fallout.
Speaking of that, next up, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco. She'll be on the Hill this morning testifying before a Senate committee. How will she respond to Brown's charges that her government is dysfunctional?

And in New Orleans, the man who led the police during their darkest hour, superintendent Eddie Compass, now leaving the job, a sudden decision, apparently. We'll look at where the city goes now on this AMERICAN MORNING.

ANNOUNCER: From the CNN broadcast center in New York, this is AMERICAN MORNING with Soledad O'Brien and Miles O'Brien.

M. O'BRIEN: Sunrise over St. Bernard Parish in New Orleans. And the sun brings another day, another day of hardship and heartbreak for the people who live in that part of the world as they return to their homes, many of them driving vans, returning with just a handful of items that they can recover from their flood-stricken homes.

Soledad O'Brien is there this morning -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: You know, Miles, it's so interesting...

M. O'BRIEN: Soledad, can you hear me?

S. O'BRIEN: Good -- yes, I can hear you just fine, Miles.

You know, it's so interesting and it's such a paradox. It's a beautiful day. I mean that sunrise is just absolutely stunning. And then you sort of see what the sun is rising above here and you kind of see, as you said, remains.

I mean if you're a homeowner coming back today, what do you grab? You've got your furniture, but it's destroyed. This is clearly somebody's kitchen and their pots and their pans are all over the place and a mess. The foundations -- just the concrete slabs have held up, but more much more than that. You know, and it looks as if someone came earlier because there are little bits and pieces. I mean we've seen this a lot, actually, the ceramic. People have come to try to grab just the little bits that they are able to get. And it looks kind of organized, so I would imagine the homeowner came and put those on the side with the idea that maybe they'll come back.

You can see here, too, you know, the fence is completely taken out. And it gives you a sense of the power of this storm, where obviously the wind and the storm surge and the water just blew this storm right off its foundation.

Back there is the levee, and we're going to get a chance a little bit later this morning to climb back there and walk around on that levee. The levee is intact. Nothing happened to that levee. But what did happen here was essentially the power of a tsunami blowing these homes off their foundations.

Miles, you have covered, as I have, tornadoes. And this destruction and damage looks to me much more like a tornado took this house out than what you would normally think about in flooding in the wake of a hurricane.

This morning, we're going to talk, Miles, to an expert who's going to give us a sense of just how much of a role man played in exacerbating the disaster that Katrina was. That's a little bit later this morning -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Soledad.

Lots to think about there.

We'll be back with you in just a little bit.

In the meantime, Louisiana Governor Kathleen Blanco will have a chance to refute claims that her state is dysfunctional. That's what former FEMA chief Mike Brown told a House committee on Monday.

And Ed Henry is on Capitol Hill -- Ed, we saw a printed statement from the governor yesterday giving us a little bit of a sense of where she's headed today.

What do we expect to hear?

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Governor Blanco will be testifying before a different committee. It's the Senate Finance panel, which is actually looking at a broader issue, how to rebuild hard hit communities, not necessarily what went wrong after Katrina.

But you're right, she's bound to address this issue. In that paper statement last night, the governor was blistering, saying she believes that Mike Brown's six hours of testimony before a House select committee was full of falsehoods. She said that he's either out of touch with reality or the truth. That's because the ousted FEMA director repeatedly refused to take responsibility for any mistakes in the wake of Katrina and repeatedly passed the blame onto state and local officials.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) MICHAEL BROWN, FORMER FEMA DIRECTOR: First, I failed initially to set up a series of regular briefings to the media about what FEMA was doing throughout the Gulf Coast region.

Second, I very strongly, personally regret that I was unable to persuade Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin to sit down, get over their differences and work together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY: Now, Mike Brown's broader point over the six hours of testimony is that the FEMA director is not a superhero and he feels that critics were expecting far too much of the federal government to basically bail out the entire Gulf region all at once and instantly take care of all the problems. He said that it had to be a coordinated local, state and federal effort.

But Republicans like Chris Shays said that was nonsense and that, in fact, he was trying to pass the buck, that Mike Brown, as FEMA director, was supposed to be that coordinator, was supposed to pull it all together.

Mike Brown also had very tense exchanges with the two Democrats who showed up at this committee, Gene Taylor of Mississippi, who lost his own home, and William Jefferson of Louisiana. They read Brown the riot act for trying to basically put the blame onto officials in their region.

But the majority of Democrats did not show up for this hearing. They think this hearing, this investigation, is going to be a whitewash. Republicans insist it will be an independent, hard hitting investigation looking at all sides. They say it's time for Democrats to show up for work -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: One of the issues which was on their mind, and we talked about this a lot because we were among the first to report about this, was that Mike Brown is still on the payroll at FEMA. Obviously that came up.

What was the response?

HENRY: He had very little to say. I think the most interesting exchange, though, came when, again, Republican Chris Shays basically accused the Bush administration and Mike Brown of being in some sort of cahoots and that basically Brown was still on the payroll because he ahead privately told lawmakers some months ago that there were budget problems with FEMA, that it had been emaciated and decimated and that it would not be prepared to handle a storm like Katrina.

And basically Christopher Shays suggested that that money is buying Mike Brown's silence, and that's why maybe Mike Brown was towing the Bush administration line.

He did not directly address that, but it was a pretty heavy charge -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: I should say. I should say. But it is a charge that many people might get to very quickly.

Ed Henry, thanks very much -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles, thanks.

You know, from what we believe by counting foundations that are left, we think that there were six homes that were along this street. This is Florida Street in the Lexington Place subdivision. The cross street would be St. Marie Street. And people have said that they come back and they are just shocked, utterly shocked by what they've seen, even though they've seen some of the pictures on TV.

If you go over to New Orleans, I'll tell you, one thing that brought a lot of shock yesterday was this news about the superintendent of police, Eddie Compass, saying he is out after 26 years of being on the force. He resigned on Tuesday. He said he wants to pursue some other opportunities now. He is going to stay around, though, for somewhere between 30 and 45 days as that transition period goes into effect.

Now, Mayor Ray Nagin, who has been said to be a friend of the now former superintendent of police, has named the assistant superintendent of police, Warren Riley, as the temporary chief now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR RAY NAGIN, MAYOR, NEW ORLEANS: He leaves the department in pretty good shape. He leaves the department with a significant amount of leadership that I have no doubt will step up to the plate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

S. O'BRIEN: A little bit of a tough time for the department, though, because keep in mind that 250, 249 police officers, about 15 percent of the force, actually, are now under investigation. The question is where were they when the very worst of the looting and the rescues were underway right in the wake of hurricane Katrina?

They're now doing an investigation into that, right as the police chief leaves. Many questions, of course, about the timing there.

Much more to talk about, though, because there are other stories that are making headlines today.

And for that, we go right to Carol Costello.

She's back in New York -- good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad.

Good morning to all of you.

Now in the news, a female suicide bomber has killed at least five people in Iraq this morning.

Aneesh Raman is live in Baghdad -- and, Aneesh, we've heard about female suicide bombers before, but not so much in Iraq.

Is this something new?

ANEESH RAMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Carol.

By our count, it's the first female suicide bomber we've seen here since the war began. And while still an isolated incident this morning, it is raising concern in the capital over the insurgency's ability to expand t base of people willing to kill themselves in this fashion.

She was wearing an explosives vest when she detonated outside a city center in the town of Tal Afar in northeastern -- I'm sorry -- northwestern Iraq. At least five people killed, 30 others wounded.

The other important point, Carol, is the location. This same town was the site of a massive joint U.S. and Iraqi military operation just weeks ago to rout out the insurgency. Now, just days ago, those troops began leaving, taking places where they were existing before. And because of that, we're seeing the insurgency, it seems, start to sprout up again -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Aneesh Raman live in Baghdad this morning.

President Bush is set to give a statement on Iraq and the war on terror this morning from the Rose Garden. The president returned Tuesday from another trip to the hurricane ravaged Gulf Coast region. He'll deliver his remarks at 10:20 Eastern, as I said, from the Rose Garden. And we'll have live coverage of that.

The chief justice nominee, John Roberts, expected to be confirmed tomorrow in a full Senate vote. After two days of debate, Roberts' confirmation seems pretty much assured. In the meantime, speculation is growing over who President Bush will pick to replace retiring justice, Sandra Day O'Connor. The president is expected to announce his choice after Roberts' confirmation vote.

And Japanese scientists have photographed what could be the first images of a live giant squid, and I mean a giant squid, in the wild. A remote operated camera snapped these images of a 26-foot long squid. This thing is the size of a bus. It's attacking bait hanging by a white line at the left side of the photo. Oh, and here's one of its 20-foot tentacles. It got stuck to the bait and was pulled on board.

The next hunt for the giant squid will be in mid-October, because, you know, it got away after the pictures were taken. Scientists say it took them three years just to find this one -- Chad, doesn't it remind you of "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea?"

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It does. It's a sound stage. It's the same place they did the Apollo thing on the moon. No, I'm just kidding.

COSTELLO: No, it's real.

MYERS: I know. I know. COSTELLO: It's just, that's a lot of calamari.

MYERS: Oh, don't even think about that. You know, we've known about these large squid out there in the Pacific a long time. But that's the first really amazing picture that you actually can see them in. They, some of them get washed up on shore, so we know they're alive. We know they live out there.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Ahead this morning, we're going to take a look at what exactly can be salvaged when you look around and see that, well, there's only foundations left and there's virtually nothing that can be pulled out. What can people really take in the aftermath of hurricane Katrina? A look at that's ahead.

Stay with us -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Soledad.

Also, more on the ex-FEMA chief, Mike Brown, and his testimony on Capitol Hill. Is he just passing the buck? We'll ask one of the senators investigating Katrina's aftermath about that.

Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Former FEMA chief Mike Brown made no apologies for the agency's slow response to hurricane Katrina and lawmakers hearing his testimony made no bones about the fact that they are upset about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What would you like for me to do, Congressman?

REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: Well, that's why I'm happy you left, because that kind of, you know, look in the lights like a deer tells me that you weren't capable to do the job. I would have liked you to do a lot of things.

BROWN: I take great umbrage to that comment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Now, Brown is also expected to testify before a Senate panel.

Maine Senator Susan Collins will hear that testimony.

Senator Collins joining us now from Capitol Hill.

Good to have you with us, Senator.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: Good morning. M. O'BRIEN: What did you want to ask him that you did not hear yesterday?

COLLINS: I would have liked to have had more of a time line on what decisions were made by whom, when. I think the hearing yesterday showed that this is a complex issue. Clearly, Michael Brown fell short in his performance. But I expect we're going to find that there were failures at all levels of government.

M. O'BRIEN: Mike Brown said it's his job to convince the local leadership to issue those mandatory evacuations.

First of all, I don't think he was very convincing in general. I don't know how convincing a person he is.

Let me just throw something else into the pot here.

We recently spoke with James Lee Witt, one of his predecessors under the Clinton administration at FEMA.

Let's listen to what he had to say about what the FEMA director should do in these times.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES LEE WITT, CLINTON ADMINISTRATION FEMA DIRECTOR: Going back to my days, when I was the director of FEMA, is, you know, I would call governors and I'd say governor, this is going to be bad and, you know, here's what we're going to put in place. And here's some things I think that we need to do for you, because I think if it's as bad as it looks, then we need to have all those resources there.

And I do not know if that was done or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

M. O'BRIEN: Apparently it wasn't. And there's a subtle difference there. It's much more proactive. It's more like we're laying this out for you, here's how it's going to work, you listen to me.

Isn't that way it should work?

COLLINS: Yes. There were specific dire warnings of the hurricane several days in advance. The head of the Hurricane Center said that he personally called state and local officials. FEMA should have pre-positioned more of its assets. The National Guard should have been called up by the governors and been ready to go.

There were a lot of problems that indicate a lack of planning, insufficient leadership, bureaucratic barriers and perhaps some laws that need to be changed, as well.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, let's talk about, you know, the structural thing here for a moment, because you have the sense here, listening to Mike Brown, that he thanks his job as FEMA director is to be kind of a therapist, make sure that government leaders get along.

That's really not the job, is it? And FEMA admittedly is a bit of a paper tiger -- 2,600 people, it really doesn't have a standing army. It really lives or dies sort of by the force of its leadership, doesn't it?

COLLINS: That's right. FEMA is more of a coordinator, a management of assets. It does not have its own first responders. It's more, in some ways, more like an insurance company and more responsible for coordinating state and local efforts and supporting first responders.

But FEMA failed to do a good job at even that.

I think that what we're going to find is that there were failures at all levels of government, that the planning wasn't adequate, that the initial response was not robust enough and that FEMA did not exert the kind of leadership that we would expect.

But there were problems at all levels of government that are going to need to be rectified, not so much because we want to fix blame, but we want to fix problems.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes, no, I -- that whole blame thing, I think that's such a red herring. You know, you have to sort of figure out what went wrong and that's -- that is blame -- in order to move forward here.

Is there any leadership in the wake of Katrina that you thought was commendable?

COLLINS: Yes.

M. O'BRIEN: I see a complete void of leadership except for General Honore.

COLLINS: I'll tell you, the one agcy that I think performed magnificently was the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard did not wait to come in and start rescuing people. The Coast Guard pre-positioned its assets. And those Coast Guard pilots who went in and did urban rescues from rooftops in the middle of the hurricane when the winds were still blowing and power lines were down deserve our gratitude. They were true heroes.

I think the Coast Guard is a model for effective response and it stands out among all the other agencies at all levels of Galveston.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, maybe what we have now with the Coast Guard admiral kind of running the show, maybe that should be sort of institutionalized, then.

COLLINS: Well, we're going to take a look at that. I think the Coast Guard admiral, Thad Allen, once he was put in charge, that the response improved immeasurably. The Coast Guard has a lot of talented people. But what, to me, was most significant is they were prepared, they did not wait to be asked. They immediately started their rescue operations.

M. O'BRIEN: Well, you know their motto, right? Semper paratus.

COLLINS: That's right.

M. O'BRIEN: Always prepared.

All right, Susan Collins, the senator from Maine.

Thanks for being with us.

And we'll talk to you again soon, I hope.

COLLINS: Thank you.

M. O'BRIEN: Still to come on the program, the damage to homes in and around New Orleans is overwhelming. We'll take a closer look at many houses that can be saved, maybe.

Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody.

You're taking a look down St. Marie Street in St. Bernard Parish. And you can see home after home with at least some damage, some, of course, with catastrophic damage. The same thing here. We're right on the corner, in fact, of Florida Street and St. Marie Street.

And while people come in and try to grab whatever they can, there are other questions about just how much of their house is worth saving. You look at something like this and you have to think well, maybe not very much.

Take a look at how high the water came up. I mean that's -- the water line is where that debris was, and even higher, by estimates of 10, 11 feet, in some cases.

Now, the question here in a home that probably is in the quarter million dollar, or $300,000 range for this neighborhood -- it's a relatively new subdivision -- is structurally how intact are these homes?

It brings us right to Elizabeth English.

She's a structural engineer at LSU's Hurricane Center.

And she's in Baton Rouge this morning.

Ms. English, thank you for talking with us.

I certainly appreciate it.

You know, you have a range, which I know you've seen because you've been on the ground here, from homes that don't seem to be damaged at all because they were flooded and homes like this that are pretty much shredded.

How do you determine structurally what's worth saving?

ELIZABETH ENGLISH, LSU HURRICANE CENTER: You have to be able to see inside the structure in the way that you have there, with wallboard removed. It depends how long the house has been sitting in the water, if you can determine whether the structure itself has suffered any rot, how molded it is. It's hard to tell without looking at the particular house.

But inspectors can take a look at it and see whether the structure can be salvaged or whether it will have to be demolished.

S. O'BRIEN: So let me ask you some questions.

All these homes that we have seen all around the area have a ton of mold, that sort of toxic mold.

Just because a house has mold, does that mean that it's a total loss? Or can that mold be ripped out?

ENGLISH: It de -- the mold can possibly be cleaned off. It depends how pervasive it is. I know that there is a great deal of mold there. In some cases, it may be recoverable; in some cases it may not.

S. O'BRIEN: What about some of these historic buildings? I mean the numbers of churches and universities that have had some kind of bad damage, what do you do when you go in to try to determine whether or not they can be saved? Does the fact that it's 250 years old or older play a role in your decision-making?

ENGLISH: Absolutely. The buildings that have historic value, it's worth much more to try to preserve those. And most likely they've been constructed from more durable materials and it may not be as difficult to save them.

The newer construction...

S. O'BRIEN: So what...

ENGLISH: Excuse me.

Go ahead.

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you know, I was going to ask you that. The newer, construction, you were going to say, what, it's weaker? It's more fragile anyway?

ENGLISH: Well, it's not that it's weaker as much as, for example, the wood that was harvested 100 years ago is a denser, more slow growth wood. And so it would be less vulnerable to mold and rot than the wood that we're building with today. And construction methods of 100 years ago were, perhaps, a bit more careful, shall we say? And so some of the older buildings may recover much better from the effects of the mold and sitting in the water. It's hard to tell. Some of -- these things will have to be assessed on a case by case basis, I'm afraid.

I'd be...

S. O'BRIEN: Well, you certainly hope they're able to save much more than it looks like they're going to be able to save now.

Elizabeth English is a structural engineer at LSU's Hurricane Center.

Ms. English, thank you for talking with us.

We certainly appreciate it.

ENGLISH: It's been my pleasure.

S. O'BRIEN: Let's get right back to Miles in New York -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, thanks very much, Soledad.

Still to come, one state gets serious about gas gouging after hurricane Katrina. Find out what it's doing to make sure drivers don't get ripped off.

Stay with us for more AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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