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The Situation Room

Tom DeLay Indicted, Steps Down as House Majority Leader; Governors from Gulf States Appeal to Congress; Haley Barbour Interview

Aired September 28, 2005 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(STOCK MARKET REPORT)
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks very much, Ali. We'll get back to you.

It's 4:00 p.m. here in Washington. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM, where news and information from around the world arrive at one place simultaneously.

Happening now, one of the nation's most powerful Republicans, Tom DeLay, indicted and out at least for now as the House majority leader this hour.

The legal and political bombshell in Texas and here in Washington. We'll examine the charges against DeLay and his claim that he's the victim of a Democrat's vendetta.

DeLay is often the president's not-so-secret weapon on Capitol Hill. What will the Republicans do now? And will Democrats pounce with control of Congress on the line next year?

And governors on the front lines in the hurricane disaster zone. They're appealing to Congress for help. Are they willing to play the blame game?

This hour, Mississippi's Haley Barbour. He'll be live on the finger pointing and the plight of the Gulf Coast.

I'm Wolf Blitzer. And you're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Rarely one to hold his fire, Republican Tom DeLay is blasting the Texas prosecutor who pushed for his indictment, calling him a partisan fanatic. And the exiting House majority leader calls the criminal count against him one of the most baseless indictments in American history. DeLay is stepping down from his leadership post, at least temporarily, something he has to do under House rules.

Within the past hour, House Republicans gathered to choose a replacement for DeLay. A senior leadership aide tells CNN House Majority Whip Roy Blunt and Congressman David Dreier are expected to fill DeLay's shoes without officially getting his title.

Back in Texas, Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle is defending the indictment against DeLay. He says that a political organization founded by DeLay used corporate donations to support candidates in violation of state campaign finance laws. Earle denies any political motive, saying -- and I'm quoting now -- he's just doing his own job.

We're waiting for Tom DeLay. He's meeting with House Republican leadership right now and we'll bring you his comments to reporters as soon as he emerges from that session.

It's hard to overstate the impact of the DeLay indictment on Capitol Hill.

Let's bring in our Congressional correspondent Joe Johns. He's watching all of this for us. DeLay really came out swinging just a little while ago, Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: He certainly did, and I think I probably better say right at the top we're being told it's now official that David Dreier and Roy Blunt, two congressmen who've both been in the leadership over there in the House of Representatives for the Republicans, are now expected to take over dual roles in the place of DeLay while he continues to fight these charges.

As you said, Wolf, Tom DeLay did come out swinging -- it's very interesting -- started out actually joking just a bit, saying this was just another day at the office. Then immediately launched into Ronnie Earle, the Travis County prosecutor, clearly showing that he and his lawyers view this as a political prosecution and clearly showing they're going to put up a political defense.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TOM DELAY (R) TEXAS: It's a sham and Mr. Earle knows it. It's a charge that cannot hold up even under the most glancing scrutiny.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: We're going to break up this for a second. The speaker -- Dennis Hastert, the speaker of the House, is speaking. Let's listen.

(LIVE NEWS EVENT)

REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R-IL), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Our hearts go out for him. We do have a system. I hope everybody understands that you are innocent until you're proven guilty. And he will fight this, and we give him our utmost support.

But the conference has to go on. We have work to do. We have an agenda that we want to move through.

We have the hurricane relief in the Gulf states.

We have, certainly, a budget that we have to figure.

We have reconciliation that we're going to move forward with.

We have immigration issues that we have to deal with.

All those things are important for this Republican conference. It's something that we started out with a year ago and we continue to follow through and we will.

The wisdom of the conference today was to move forward.

We have elected Roy Blunt as the temporary leader in the House. With him, we've had -- asked a couple of people to kind of step up and help take on responsibilities. Eric Cantor will, as deputy whip, will also assume extra duties in the whip office, and David Dreier as the chairman of the Rules Committee will help us work with the chairman and move the agenda through, across the House floor and make recommendations to both Roy and myself.

I think our members are decisive. We're ready to go to work and roll up our sleeves and we will finish our agenda and get through this year with flying colors.

Roy Blunt?

REP. ROY BLUNT (R) MISSOURI: Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I think it's fair to say that our members today, while they've expressed great regret that Tom DeLay has had to go through what he's going through right now -- I think largely because of his effectiveness as a leader he became a target.

We all believe that he'll return once this indictment is out of the way to be the leader again. That's what our rules call for. That's why my current situation will be to act as temporary leader.

And I -- and Tom would come back as leader, but he'll continue to be an important member of this House, an important part of getting our work done. He's still a member of Congress and is going to be an effective and influential part of what we're doing as he works now to get beyond this terribly unfair thing that's happening.

Most of our discussion was about the importance of our agenda.

Many of you have been in my office, the whip's office, on the third floor and you've seen that bust that I took there from the deputy whip's office. The reason it wound up in the deputy whip's office is that nobody knew who it was.

I was particularly intrigued by a bust of a person that had been in this building since about 1815, we believe. And since 1915 nobody has known who it was.

The very idea that a country as young ours, you'd have a statue of somebody in a building and not know who they were is amazing to me, but it also expresses to me every day when I look at it -- or our members when we look at it -- were in my office meeting that what we do here is more important than who we are.

We have an agenda to move forward. We're going to have a great team effort to make that happen. Not easy to fill the gap left by our leader Tom DeLay, who has done a tremendous job. But all of our team is going to come together like we haven't come together ever before, I believe, to see us move forward here with resounding to the hurricane with reconciliation, reforming these mandatory programs for the first time in 10 years.

Looking at the other items on our agenda from tax relief to charitable relief and moving forward with that, that was a significant part of our discussion both this morning and this afternoon. The ideas are bigger than who -- than we are. And the ideas are the ideas that we're going to advance to success over the next few weeks.

I know that David Dreier is going to be a critically important part of that. The speaker and I have asked David to step in and particularly help us coordinate the activities of the chairman and the activities on the floor and make recommendations as to how we move to the floor. And of course Eric Cantor, who I asked to be the chief deputy whip when I became the whip will step up and be -- even do more of the important work he does every day.

Our Conference Chairman Deborah Pryce will continue to provide the kind of leadership she does so that we get our work done and the American people see that this Congress continues to work for them.

David. Eric. Any questions? Thank you all.

BLITZER: There you have it. The House speaker, Dennis Hastert, announcing the new temporary Republican leader, the majority leader in the House of Representatives, Roy Blunt of Missouri. He'll be helped by David Dreier, the chairman of the House Rules Committee and Eric Cantor, the deputy whip from Virginia. All three of them trying to get -- fill the shoes of Tom DeLay.

That won't necessarily be all that easy.

Joe Johns, our congressional correspondent, when we say we can't overemphasize how important Tom DeLay was to this Republican Conference in the House of Representatives, our viewers may not necessarily understand what we mean. Explain to them, Joe, how powerful, how significant, Tom DeLay has been.

JOHNS: A lot of people say he is the grease that keeps the wheels running in the House of Representatives.

Tom DeLay has, by many people's estimation, been the person you go to if you need to get something done on Capitol Hill, officially the second most powerful man in the House of Representatives, although of course some have said he's the most powerful man on Capitol Hill, notwithstanding the speaker of the House.

Now a couple of other notes. You know what we've seen, Wolf, is just a tremendous political response to this indictment coming from a variety of people certainly who support Tom DeLay arguing that this is a political prosecution. But there is another side to this story that we haven't heard as much about, and that is the side from Ronnie Earle's perspective and the Democrats who think he's doing the right thing.

Ronnie Earle, of course, is a Democrat. He has brought this prosecution, has brought a number of prosecutions, in fact, against more Democrats than Republicans, but at least two very high profile cases. One involving Kay Bailey Hutchison, the senator from Texas -- those prosecutions went down in flames.

So he's being called a political prosecutor. He addressed some of that in a news conference in Texas earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD EARLE, TRAVIS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: At last count that totals 15, 12 of whom were Democrats and three of whom were Republicans.

Our job is to prosecute abuses of power. And we -- our job is to bring those abuses to the attention of the public through juries and that's what we do when we find a violation of the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So, all eyes now are on how it's going to work over in the House of Representatives.

It looks clear at least from the body language that Roy Blunt will be first among equals in stepping into the shoes of Tom DeLay while he's off fighting this prosecution.

Back to you, Wolf.

BLITZER: All right, Joe Johns, thanks very much. And we're expecting to hear from Tom DeLay again. He's expected to come to the microphones on Capitol Hill.

Once we get that, we'll bring it to you. We can bring to you Jack Cafferty right now. He's in New York at the microphone himself.

JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: Any chance this could be like a vast left-wing conspiracy, Wolf?

BLITZER: I'm sure there were people who think that.

CAFFERTY: In light of Tom DeLay's indictment today, we decided to take a look at a CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll. This was done in May and it was on the subject of how people rate politicians and their ethics. Somebody suggested using those two words in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

Fifty-six percent of those polled said most Republicans in Congress are ethical. Fifty-five percent said Democrats are. But since May let's remember, President Bush's approval ratings have dropped to all time lows, the government is seen as having dropped the ball miserably in the first days after Katrina, the Senate Majority leader, Bill Frist, is facing questions about the sale of stock from a blind trust, and you get the feeling that folks in general are not real happy with the way things are going these days in the Republic.

I wonder what the numbers would be if we took that same poll today?

Here's the question. Which party is more ethical in Congress? Is it the Democrats or is it the Republicans? Cafferty File -- one word -- @CNN.com.

We'll read some letters later.

BLITZER: All right, Jack, thanks very much.

And please stay with CNN for the most complete coverage of this story.

Up next, what's the Tom DeLay indictment really all about? What's the political fallout? Our Bill Schneider is standing by. He's got some thoughts.

Also, how did Tom DeLay become one of the most powerful men ever in Congress? We'll spotlight his dramatic rise.

And later, Angelina Jolie using her star power to try to help the world, especially U.N. ambassadors. The goodwill ambassador. She'll be here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

In the meantime, let's go to Capitol Hill. Tom DeLay speaking right now.

(BEGIN LIVE NEWS EVENT)

DELAY: These are difficult times, obviously, and to have the kind of support that was displayed in the conference and of what we've been able to accomplish over the last 11 years we've been in the majority is just very heart-warming, and I greatly appreciate it.

What I told the members, basically, was we all know what this is, a political witch hunt. It is actually a pre-determined campaign even on the DCCC web site about the -- and it's a campaign that's been going on for over two years -- ethics charges with RICO suits, with now an indictment. All those charges, every charge has been dismissed. And I'm sure this indictment will also be dismissed.

What I tried to tell our members is we need to stay focused. What this is all about is driving a wedge in our conference, in our ability to lead this Congress and this nation. And I don't think I've ever witnessed a coming together and unifying event as this conference. So if the Democrats think that we're going to go crawl in a hole and not accomplish our agenda, I just wish they could have been a fly on the wall and seen these members come together for an incredible, a bold and aggressive agenda.

We've got to do something about gas prices and heating oil for this winter.

We have to do something about retirement security in this nation, and we will.

We have to do something about border security and immigration, illegal immigration in this country, and we will.

We have to do something about fiscal responsibility and reform our entitlement system, and we will.

And we'll do all that in the next few weeks.

It is a very bold and aggressive agenda. We are going to stay focused on that agenda. I'm going to help them accomplish that agenda because I'm still a member of Congress and I'm going to work hard for the people's work.

And we'll get it done. The Democrats can play these -- this politics of personal destruction all they want to. It's not having an effect on this conference at all. And we will go forward and we will continue to -- to accomplish great things for the American people.

Thank you very much.

(END LIVE NEWS EVENT)

BLITZER: Tom DeLay -- he had been the House majority leader. He's stepping down as majority leader, remaining in the House of Representatives after being indicted by a grand jury in his home state of Texas just a few hours ago.

Tom DeLay insisting this is nothing more in his words nothing more than a political witch hunt against him. He says he will fight this and he'll be coming back. Tom DeLay not answering reporters' questions at that statement right there. We'll see if he does in the coming hours. We'll certainly bring that to you if he does.

We'll take another quick break. Much more of our coverage coming up.

Don't forget -- also later here in THE SITUATION ROOM, the special United Nations goodwill ambassador, Angelina Jolie. She's been in Washington all day up on Capitol Hill. She'll join me here. That's coming up, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: The White House is calling Tom DeLay a good ally. But the administration says it's now up to the courts to do their job.

Let's check in with our White House correspondent Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne?

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Wolf, DeLay as you know of course a Texas ally with the president always in lockstep of course. According to one person I even talked to, he was the one who pushed Republicans to vote with the president even when they didn't want to. And to just give you a sense of how powerful he is in the 108th Congress, we're talking about legislation that barely passed -- Medicare by one vote; Head Start, one vote; school vouchers in D.C. one vote; this year, CAFTA only by two votes.

That is the work of Tom DeLay pushing forward the president's agenda. It was a critical moment back in April people were asking whether or not the president was going to distance himself from DeLay with the ethics questions first came about -- we noticed that he was in lockstep with DeLay, that he was shoulder to shoulder. He praised him, he gave him a ride back home on Air Force One.

All of this making the message very clear that he was standing by his man. That message has not changed today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Congressman DeLay has put out a statement that he's temporarily stepping aside from his position. And Congress, the House will move forward on who will temporarily fill that post while he is working to address this legal matter. And we'll work with all members of Congress who want to get things done for the American people.

Congressman DeLay is someone who has wanted to get things done for the American people and we've worked very closely with him and we appreciate that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Wolf, the big question now is whether or not it is actually going to cripple the president to move forward, push forward his agenda. DeLay saying that it's not -- the White House certainly hoping that it is not going to do that.

But still, Social Security reform was already at somewhat of a bit of a troubled state. I -- even before this the president also fairly weakened when you take a look at those poll numbers, about 40 percent approval now. Also of course the hurricanes as well as gas prices also affecting the president's approval as well.

So we'll just have to wait and see.

BLITZER: All right, Suzanne, thanks very much.

Tom DeLay says that the indictment against him is just political retribution for his efforts to bolster Republican clout in Texas as well as here in Washington.

Let's talk more about the charge against the exiting House majority leader. Our senior political analyst Bill Schneider joining us live.

WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Wolf, this is hardball politics, major league.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCHNEIDER: Remember this scene in 2003, when a group of Democratic state representatives from Texas fled the state and hid out in the Ardmore, Oklahoma Holiday Inn? They were trying to prevent the new Republican majority in the state house from getting a quorum and passing an unusual mid-decade plan to redraw Texas congressional district boundaries.

House Majority Leader Tom DeLay tried to enlist the U.S. Department of Homeland Security to find out where they went. State police were dispatched to track them down.

It was all part of Tom DeLay's plan to increase the Republican majority in Congress. It worked. In 2004, Texas Republicans took five seats from Democrats as a result of the re-map. It happened because DeLay had masterminded a Republican campaign to take control of the Texas legislature in 2002. He founded Texans for a Republican Majority, a political action committee run by a DeLay aide that raised corporate money from all over the country.

Texas law prohibits corporate money from going to state candidates. DeLay has now been indicted for conspiring to violate that law.

DeLay's plan was breathtaking in its ambition. Raise money, win control of the state legislature, redraw congressional district boundaries, and expand the Republican majority in Congress.

Now, a Democratic district attorney has struck back, effectively sidelining one of the Republicans' most powerful national leaders, at least for the time being.

Partisan politics? The legal system will have to decide that. Wolf.

BLITZER: In the meantime, though, Bill, how valuable is this for the Democrats?

SCHNEIDER: Well, the Democrats see an emerging issue that they hope to be able to run on a year from now in the mid-term election and that is corruption. It's an issue Republicans used against them back in the '90s.

You know Bill Frist is under investigation involving his sale of stock in a company that he'd held for a long time. And a White House aide in the Office of Management and Budget has actually been arrested for criminal wrongdoing. So Democrats see that they have a corruption issue here that can do them a lot of good.

BLITZER: Bill Schneider reporting for us. Thanks, Bill, very much.

It's been quite a ride for Tom DeLay. How did he go from being a bug exterminator in Texas to one of the most powerful men in the Congress? We'll take a look back at his amazing rise to power. Plus, DeLay's not the first Congressional leader to face legal problems. We'll look back at some other famous cases as well and what happened.

You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: You're back in THE SITUATION ROOM.

Tom DeLay is very well known in political circles from Texas here to Washington, but if you aren't familiar with the exiting House majority leader, the story of his rise to power and how he's used that clout is simply fascinating.

Let's bring back our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley. Candy.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Wolf you're right this is been a very successful politician and he's done it the old- fashioned way, all by himself.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: He's the bug exterminator driven to politics by his fury over environmental rules.

He once called the EPA the Gestapo of government. After the president, he may be the most powerful man in Washington.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The majority leader of the House of Representatives, Tom DeLay of Texas.

CROWLEY: Tom DeLay came to power the old-fashioned way, under his own steam, building a base of loyalty, collecting chips.

BOB BARR (R) FMR. U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: He worked for each member to get elected and to be reelected. That is something that members don't forget -- or forget at their own peril.

CROWLEY: Last year, DeLay, a prodigious fundraiser, gave more money to more congressional candidates than any other lawmaker.

A decade ago, he was a relative unknown in a minority party. But DeLay was setting the type for his headliner status, sending cash and care packages to the campaigns of Republican hopefuls in the class of '94.

REP. DAVID DREIER (R-CA), CHAIRMAN, HOUSE COMMITTEE ON RULES: So a candidate for Congress who would be out knocking on doors, meeting with supporters, talking about issues, debating his or her opponent, would come back to the headquarters and they would say this guy Tom DeLay just sent home-baked cookies from Texas.

CROWLEY: When the House opened for business in '95, Republicans were in charge for the first time in four decades. Many of them owed Tom DeLay. He was elected whip, the person responsible for rounding up votes. He was very good at it.

Someone once called him a cross between a concierge and a Mafia don, a guy who delivered.

BILL PAXON (R) FMR. U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: You know, he's the kind of person who would always reach out to help -- help with your political needs, your congressional needs, your personal needs.

CROWLEY: A guy who expected loyalty.

CHARLIE STENHOLM (D) FMR. U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: If anyone within his own party disagrees with him, they find an opponent waiting in the wings of the next primary, they find a threat to reduce the amount of funding available to them.

CROWLEY: They call him the hammer, pounding money out of donors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's $10,200.00

HASTERT: The gentleman from Texas.

CROWLEY: Conning votes out of colleagues. Pounding the Democrats.

ERIC SMITH, FMR. DEMOCRATIC AIDE: There were countless times on the House floor when Democrats would feel like you'd finally pulled one off and we were finally going to win and the clock and vote would stop and Tom DeLay would appear on the floor and Republican members would start walking to the well of the House to change their votes.

CROWLEY: Eight years as whip, three now as majority leader, he is a brass knuckles conservative in relentless pursuit of his agenda.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every morning when he wakes up he's trying to figure out a way that the conservatives can win and that the Democrats lose.

CROWLEY: In Texas, DeLay pushed the state legislature to redraw district lines to favor Republican elections. When minority Democrats fled the state to prevent a vote, he called the FAA to find out where they went.

STENHOLM: He was a bulldog, and he wasn't going to take no for an answer. And some of his tactics are being reviewed by the proper legal authorities. And I'll leave it to them whether anything was illegal or not.

CROWLEY: Drawn into a district he couldn't win, Charlie Stenholm is now a former congressman, one of the Texas Democrats who lost their congressional seat in 2004. And Tom DeLay got six more Texas Republicans in Washington to help move the agenda.

Smaller government, lower taxes, fewer regulations. He is the go- to guy for getting legislation through Congress. Donors want to give him money. Lobbyists want to please him, or at least not make him mad. Power begets more power. DeLay warned pro-business lobbies to stop giving money to Democratic candidates. He pushed K Street -- Washington speak for lobbyists and trade associations -- to hire Republicans. He expanded his reach.

STUART ROY, FMR. DELAY AIDE: There are certainly a lot of people in the government relations world, public relations, who are close to Tom DeLay and who are able to look out for him, be eyes and ears.

CROWLEY: Bloomberg News found more than 200 companies, coalitions and trade groups have hired former DeLay employees as lobbyists. Never charged with violating House rules, DeLay has gone to the edge, warned by the Ethics Committee on four separate occasions.

His colleagues are loyal, his critics intense. And all agree on this...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, that's the thing about DeLay, is that he always wins.

CROWLEY: Tom DeLay wields great power with no apology, few boundaries, and no one takes odds against him.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: Wolf, this is a tough politician from a tough state. When he called the FAA to ask them where the Democrats had run to, this is when these T-shirts began to show up in Texas. Very tough politics down there. But he's in a different arena now. Now he's in the role of defendant or will be. Still a tough guy, but a very different role now.

BLITZER: We'll see what happens in the court. Thanks very much, Candy Crowley reporting for us.

Coming up, getting back on track in the hurricane disaster zone. Gulf Coast governors want help. They want it right now. I'll speak live with Mississippi's Haley Barbour. He's standing by.

And she's taking a stand in the fight against AIDS. I'll also speak with the actress and activist, and the U.N. special ambassador, Angelina Jolie. She's standing by as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: In light of Tom DeLay's indictment today, perhaps the only thing his supporters and detractors can agree on is that it will be a nasty legal fight.

Here to talk more about DeLay's dilemma are two guests. Terry Jeffrey is the editor of "Human Events," and former Democratic Chairman Terry McAuliffe, the immediate past chairman. Terry and Terry, thanks to both of you for joining us.

Listen to what Tom DeLay just said a few minutes ago. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DELAY: This act is the product of a coordinated, premeditated campaign of political retribution, the all too predictable result of a vengeful investigation led by a partisan fanatic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: All right. What do you think, Terry?

TERRY MCAULIFFE, FORMER DNC CHAIRMAN: This prosecutor, as you know, has indicted four times more Democrats than Republicans over the last 27 years. He's indicted 15 public officials. Twelve of those were Democrats, including the state attorney general, the Texas House speaker -- Democrat.

So to try and say this is some partisan witch hunt just isn't the case. This guy has gone after more Democrats than Republicans. It goes to the whole culture of corruption. You know, you've got Frist's stock sale. You've got the White House procurement aide who was just arrested in his home the other day. You got Karl Rove outing a CIA operative. It's the whole culture of corruption in the Republican Party.

BLITZER: Why are you smiling?

TERRY JEFFREY, EDITOR, HUMAN EVENTS: Well, I have to say it's a little ironic for Bill Clinton's former party chairman to be talking about a culture of corruption. But I think there is some credibility to Majority Leader DeLay's claim this could be partisan.

Let me give you some solid, concrete evidence, Wolf. Back in 1994, this same district attorney conducted an eight-month high profile investigation of Republican Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. At the end of that investigation, he indicted her on political corruption charges. That case was thrown out of court on the very first day when the judge instructed the jury to acquit her.

The second piece of evidence -- I looked this up today -- an article from the "Houston Chronicle." Back in may, this Democratic district attorney from Travis County went up to Dallas to be a featured speaker at a Democratic political action committee fundraiser.

This is what he said -- quote -- "This case is not just about Tom DeLay. If it isn't this Tom DeLay, it will be another one." That implies there's a generic Tom DeLay, a generic Republican leader that this guy would like to indict.

MCAULIFFE: First of all, I was party chairman when George Bush was president. I just want to make sure we get the facts correct here for Terry. This man is a prosecutor. This is about money laundering. They took soft money. They ran it through the Republican National Committee in 2002. And I think we need an investigation who at the national party headquarters of the Republican Party authorized this transfer of illegal, soft money and then diverted it back to Texas -- clearly a violation of the law. Let the facts stand as they are. We will have a case now. He has been indicted and let the court system work its course now.

JEFFREY: Well, I think, first of all, when you have this investigation, you don't have Republicans taking the Fifth Amendment or trying not to testify. I think you're going to have people coming forward with the truth.

I did actually read the indictment today. And I found -- now, I'm not a lawyer, but I found the most interesting thing about it is it doesn't allege any specific action to Tom DeLay. It just vaguely claims that this district attorney thinks he knew about an activity of other persons whose criminality has not been determined yet.

And DeLay's people are saying this district attorney has testimony that DeLay did not know about these actions, whether or not they're ultimately determined to be illegal.

BLITZER: Is this a smart strategy though for Tom DeLay to come out swinging as powerfully as he did today?

MCAULIFFE: Well, I don't think he has much option. He's been indicted. He's had to give up his post as the majority leader. You know, he's been indicted by a grand jury so he's facing some very serious charges. He could end up going to prison, so I think he needs to come out and state his case. If I were him, I would do the same thing, come out, state your case and, you know, the facts will ultimately come out.

But remember, this is about money laundering, money run through the Republican National Committee back to the state. And you've got to remember, this was about redistricting -- seats in Texas after redistricting.

JEFFREY: Wolf, let me say this.

BLITZER: All right. Hold on.

MCAULIFFE: He called the FAA to chase down Democrats. I mean, the whole thing stunk from the start.

JEFFREY: You know, he talks about money laundering and all these general terms. I would tell people watching this show, that when they read their newspaper in the morning, see if that newspaper can explain exactly what it is that this district attorney is claiming that Tom DeLay did illegal.

I suspect a lot of the news stories tomorrow will not be able to clearly explain what this guy's alleging Tom DeLay did that is illegal, because the indictment doesn't say a single thing that he did.

BLITZER: It's a conspiracy indictment.

JEFFREY: Right. It's a conspiracy theory I think.

MCAULIFFE: Well, he already admitted he's not a lawyer, so let the court deal with this. He's been indicted by a grand jury.

JEFFREY: But let's see if the newspaper reporters can infer (ph) all the facts and do it clearly so that the average person can understand what this guy even theorizes that Tom DeLay did that was -- he'll get his day in court.

MCAULIFFE: You know, innocent until proven guilty.

JEFFREY: And he'll have his day in court.

BLITZER: Terry McAuliffe, Terry Jeffrey thanks to both of you for joining us. We'll have you back in THE SITUATION ROOM.

MCAULIFFE: You bet. Thank you.

BLITZER: Thanks very much. Coming up, I'll speak with Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour. He answered questions today from U.S. senators during a hearing. When I come back, I'll ask him how things are going in Mississippi post-Katrina.

Plus, a show of force over at the White House. The president lays out more points on his strategy for winning the war in Iraq. We'll tell you what the president had to say.

Stay with us.

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BLITZER: Here's a look at some of the hot shots coming from our friends over at the Associated Press, pictures likely to be in your hometown newspapers tomorrow.

Thailand, typhoon rescue. Rescue workers pulling the remains from a car in which two people were killed after a bridge collapsed.

Baghdad, Iraqi soldiers stand guard over suspected insurgents captured after an army raid.

Turkey, the U.S. undersecretary of State, Karen Hughes, gives away books to children. She's there to help boost America's image in the Middle East.

And Thailand, look at this. Pandas celebrating a fourth birthday with cake made of bamboo and carrots. They're enjoying it.

That's today's hot shots.

Let's turn over to CNN's Zain Vergee. She's joining us, once again, from the CNN Center in Atlanta with a closer look at some other stories making news. Zain? ZAIN VERJEE, CNNHN ANCHOR: Wolf, a show of force today at the White House. With top generals flanking him, President Bush said Iraqi troops are growing in size and taking on more of the fight against insurgents. But the president warned there could be a surge of violence in Iraq in advance of next month's referendum on a constitution. Today's Rose Garden event comes one day after word that a top al Qaeda leader in Iraq was killed.

The president's nominee for chief justice is expected to sail through his confirmation vote tomorrow. Knowing John Roberts is a shoo-in, Democrats are turning their attention to the next Supreme Court nominee President Bush is expected to name this week.

Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean says the party should absolutely be prepared to filibuster the choice to replace Justice Sandra Day O'Connor if the nominee's ideology is unacceptable to Democrats.

A congressional committee pushing for tighter rules on steroid use in pro sports issues an ultimatum -- police your game or we'll do it for you. Representatives from all major professional sports leagues were on hand for today's committee hearing. Baseball commissioner Bud Selig says he welcomes congressional intervention if the players union won't agree to a three strikes and you're out drug policy -- Wolf.

BLITZER: Zain Vergee reporting for us. Zain, thanks very much. Hurricane politics today on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KENT CONRAD (D), NORTH DAKOTA: I saw Governor Blanco, you were criticized yesterday heavily by Mr. Brown. I just give you a chance here, if you would like to, to respond to that.

GOV. KATHLEEN BLANCO (D), LOUISIANA: Senator Conrad, I appreciate that, but today I came really to talk about job creation. I think there will be plenty of time to talk about all the other issues.

SEN. MAX BAUCUS (D), MONTANA: Good for you, Governor Blanco. This is not about blame. This is about how we get this job done. I appreciate your response.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: That was the Louisiana governor, Kathleen Blanco, testifying about the situation in her state after twin hurricane disasters. She was given a chance to respond to some harsh criticism on the Hill yesterday from the former FEMA director, Michael Brown, but she took a pass at least for now.

The Mississippi governor, Haley Barbour, also testified today before Congress via satellite. He's joining us now live from Jackson, Mississippi. Governor, thanks very much for joining us. Welcome to THE SITUATION ROOM.

GOV. HALEY BARBOUR (R), MISSISSIPPI: Thank you, Wolf. BLITZER: Let's talk a little bit about what Michael Brown had to say yesterday. As far as Mississippi is concerned -- forget about Louisiana -- did FEMA and Michael Brown come through for your home state?

BARBOUR: FEMA and the federal government generally have done a whole lot more right than wrong in my state. They've been good partners. Have they been perfect? No, they haven't been perfect. And I hadn't been perfect, the state hadn't been perfect. I think if you ask local mayors and county officials, they'll tell you they hadn't been perfect.

But the federal government has done a lot for us. They were there from the very beginning when we had young Coast Guard kids hanging from helicopters pulling people off the roofs of houses the night of the storm, in the dark, no electricity. They've done a whole lot more right than wrong.

BLITZER: Listen to what Democratic Congressman Gene Taylor from Mississippi said yesterday during that hearing with Michael Brown. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GENE TAYLOR (D), MISSISSIPPI: You can try to throw as much as you can on the backs of Louisianians, but I'm a witness as to what happened in Mississippi. You folks fell on your face. You get an F- minus in my book.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: F-minus -- it doesn't get much worse than that, Governor. What do you say to Gene Taylor?

BARBOUR: That's why they got chocolate and vanilla, Wolf. You know, my view of the whole situation, including in Hancock County, is that the federal government did a tremendous amount. Again, they weren't perfect. When you have a storm that literally obliterates every system -- no electricity, no water, no sewer, no communication systems, no roads -- you know, I don't have an unreasonable expectations.

We just had a bunch of NBA stars that gave 22 tractor-trailer loads of food to the coast. And I stood in front of them and I said these guys are all the best. But none of them ever shot 100 percent from the free-throw line. And down on the Mississippi Gulf Coast right at the beginning, we weren't shooting free throws, Wolf. We were taking the toughest shot that nature has to offer.

BLITZER: We heard the Louisiana senators, one Democrat, one Republican, saying how much they need to rebuild Louisiana. What is your estimate? How much do you need to rebuild Mississippi?

BARBOUR: My view is that those estimates that you're talking about were very, very high. Very, very high. We're not going to shoot for the moon in Mississippi. We're going to try to be restored. We're going to try to be restored in a way where there's less hazard from hurricanes in the future -- and there are going to be more hurricanes. We're going to try to do it in a way that is safer and more secure.

But we're not going to try to have a gold-plated operation. We don't want that. We're going to be good stewards of the taxpayers' money. And I know Congress, Republicans and Democrats alike, are going to be good stewards.

We have a tremendous need to rebuild 306 years of infrastructure on the Mississippi Gulf Coast. That's how long ago the Europeans came. Schools, public buildings, roads railroads, water, sewer, ports -- it's going to be a big amount of money, but the $250 billion just strikes me as way, way, way, way beyond what we'll need.

BLITZER: Final question, Governor, before I let you go. As you know, some social conservatives, religious conservatives are critical of your desire to start moving those casinos inland as opposed to being on the water. They said you promised you wouldn't expand the casinos when you ran for office and they're accusing you of backing away from that promise. What do you say to them?

BARBOUR: Well, I ran for governor, I said I was opposed to expanding gaming beyond the counties where it is now. That's still my position. I don't propose, and I would oppose, expanding gaming beyond the counties where it is now.

But what we're talking about is not inland gaming. We're not even going to let the casinos go 10 miles, five miles or one mile inland. We're going to keep them tied to the Gulf, tied to the bays, just as they are now. But we have seen having them on the water is irresponsible. It's dangerous. The utter destruction and the damage they caused as they floated across the highways, hit hotel buildings, ran over an art museum -- it would be irresponsible to keep what we've got now. So that's why we have proposed to let them come on shore by a few hundred feet.

My state -- we're 400 miles long. A few hundred feet is immaterial, particularly compared to the public safety, the protection of investment, the job creation, and just the common sense of coming on shore a few hundred feet still tied to the water.

BLITZER: Governor Barbour, good luck to everyone in Mississippi. Thanks for joining us here in THE SITUATION ROOM.

BARBOUR: Thank you, Wolf.

BLITZER: Coming up, the House Republican leader battles for his political life, but does either party in Congress have an ethical edge? We're going to get your views.

And she's speaking out in the war against AIDS: coming up, my interview with the actress and the U.N. special ambassador, Angelina Jolie. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Jack Cafferty is back with us, joining us now from New York. Jack?

CAFFERTY: Thanks, Wolf. This hour's question is as follows. Which party is more ethical in Congress -- Democrats or Republicans?

Lee writes: "Without a doubt, the Democrats are more ethical. Surely Dr. Bill Frist should be calling Martha Stewart for some prison cuisine tips; Mr. Tom DeLay should receive no time off for good behavior, and Ken Lay could give them both advice on how to stay out of prison altogether. PS: Isn't ethical Congressmen a bit of an oxymoron?"

Enid writes: "Which party is most ethical? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? So long as corporations underwrite political campaigns, the political system will be riddled with financial chicanery of one kind or another. Nonetheless, I can't think of a better political system, can you?"

Peter in Toms River in New Jersey: "Neither. The tide of ethics follows the pattern of a storm surge during a hurricane. It swells immeasurably when the election sweeps them into power, and sneaks back to the smell of seaweed at low tide after the posturing is done."

Candace in Ohio: "Both Republicans and Democrats are on the same gravy train; both parties are corrupt to the core. We need to clean house in 2006 and 2008. Our government is a complete, abject failure."

And Jim in Pauls Valley, Oklahoma: "The most ethical party in Washington in terms of integrity, authenticity and transparency is of course the cocktail party."

BLITZER: Jim is a funny guy. Thanks very much, Jack. We'll get back to you very, very soon. Representative Tom DeLay: He isn't the first congressman to face indictments or major legal problems. Coming up, who are some of the others? Our Bruce Morton will remind us. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BLITZER: Now we put the indictment of Congressman Tom DeLay into some perspective. Our national correspondent, Bruce Morton, has covered his share of political dust ups and full-fledged scandals on Capitol Hill through many years. He's joining us now live. Bruce?

BRUCE MORTON, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: One thing we know about the DeLay story: this is far, far from the first congressional money scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MORTON (voice-over): In 1994, a grand jury indicted House Ways and Means Committee Chairman Dan Rostenkowski on 17 felony counts, including embezzlement, fraud and obstruction of justice. He went to prison.

A few years earlier, Democratic House Speaker Jim Wright had to resign over ethics charges that he had used bulk sales of his book to disguise what would have been illegal campaign contributions. He lost the speakership, but didn't go to jail.

And the man who led the attack on Wright, Republican Newt Gingrich, himself had to resign as speaker in 1998, facing controversy over a book deal and the financing of a college course he taught. He's back, though, on most people's lists of men who might run for president in 2008.

Tony Cuelho, who was one of Al Gore's campaign managers in 2000, resigned his House seat back in the 1980s after a controversy over a junk bond investment he made.

And if you like big numbers, six representatives and one senator were convicted after being videotaped in 1979 taking money from FBI agents disguised as Arab sheiks.

For some reason, it usually is money that gets politicians in trouble. Sex -- well, Bill Clinton got impeached over Monica Lewinsky, but survived, and is a respected public figure today.

(on camera): So however today's case turns out, Wolf, it's one more proof that money and politics is sometimes a very toxic mix.

BLITZER: Indeed it is. Bruce, thanks very much. Bruce Morton reporting for us.

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