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Lou Dobbs Tonight
Reporter Released from Jail after 85 Days; CIA Leak Investigation Bears No Results so Far; Scooter Libby Revelation Latest Trial for Bush Administration; Weather on Firefighters' Side in California; New Orleans Residents Begin to Return; Group Advocates Building Fence on Southern Border
Aired September 30, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, HOST: Thank you, Wolf. Good evening, everybody.
After spending 85 days in jail, almost three months, for protecting her confidential source of the CIA leak investigation, "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller today divulged that source to a federal grand jury.
The Pulitzer Prize winning journalist was released from prison last night after reaching an agreement with the special prosecutor. She testified for two hours in federal court. She did so after receiving direct personal permission from her source to divulge their off-the-record conversations for a story that she did not write.
"The New York Times" identifies Miller's source as Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDITH MILLER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I was a journalist, doing my job, protecting my source until my source freed me to perform my civic duty to testify.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Judith Miller's testimony could set the stage for charges to be filed in an investigation that is now lasting twice as long as Watergate. And those potential charges could target individuals within the Bush White House.
We have complete coverage tonight from federal court in Washington, where Miller today testified. Bob Franken from our studios in Washington. Lisa Sylvester on how the CIA leak case has been allowed to drag on for so long. And from the White House with Bush administration reaction, Dana Bash.
We begin with Bob Franken -- Bob.
BOB FRANKEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, for Judith Miller, coming back here was an entirely different experience, and she certainly left under more pleasant circumstances.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN (voice-over): Judith Miller had finally testified to the grand jury after 85 days in jail.
MILLER: I heard directly from my source that I should testify before the grand jury. This was in the form of a personal letter and most important, a telephone conversation, a telephone call to me at the jail. I concluded from this that my source genuinely wanted me to testify.
FRANKEN: The source was the vice president's chief of staff, Lewis "Scooter" Libby, whose lawyer contends he would have been glad to free her from any confidentiality pledge before Judith Miller went to jail. She refused to discuss that but was clearly relieved she had found a way out.
MILLER: Believe me, I did not want to be in jail. But I would have stayed even longer.
FRANKEN: Libby's lawyer says his client did not knowingly identify Valerie Plame as a CIA agent. That's the same contention made by the attorney for Karl Rove, the deputy White House chief of staff.
Plame was identified as an undercover agent in July 2003 by columnist Robert Novak, as the wife of Joe Wilson, who had been harshly critical of administration claims about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs.
Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald began his investigation after charges the leaks were illegal.
Judith Miller is apparently the last reporter to resist his demand that they testify about their sources.
MILLER: I am really tired. I have a meal that I want my husband to prepare, a dog I want to hug, and I'd like to go home to Sag Harbor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FRANKEN: And so far, Judith Miller is the only person who's gone to jail as a result of this investigation, Lou. So far.
DOBBS: Bob Franken, the -- it appears at this point it's entirely possible that she would be the only one to serve a sentence as a result of this investigation. Bob Franken, thank you.
Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has spent more than 630 days investigating who leaked Valerie Plame's identity to the press and whether they broke the law. This investigation, in a case where no charges have been filed, is historic in length. And as I said, it may yield little of historical significance when it is completed.
It is far from clear whether any charges will be brought. And it is entirely possible Judith Miller will be the only person to serve a sentence.
Lisa Sylvester reports. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has said he needed Judith Miller's testimony to wrap a CIA leak investigation. Now, he has it. And the current grand jury is scheduled to expire the end of October. But legal experts say there may not be a quick resolution.
PAUL ROTHSTEIN, LEGAL AUTHOR: It's going to be very difficult to mount a prosecution unless Mr. Fitzgerald, the prosecutor, comes up with some kind of real smoking gun. And that doesn't seem to be in the cards. But we don't know. This whole case is so shrouded in secrecy.
SYLVESTER: The investigation has so far lasted 639 days, longer than the Watergate probe, which wrapped up in 288 days. A parade of current and former administration officials has been questioned by prosecutors.
It's unclear, after 21 months, if Patrick Fitzgerald has uncovered any wrongdoing. But sources following the case believe it has likely turned into a perjury investigation.
LUCY DALGLISH, PRESS FREEDOM ADVOCATE: It's entirely possible that some of the questions he's asked these reporters have more to do with whether or not someone lied under oath, or tried to obstruct the investigation somewhere along the way.
SYLVESTER: "New York Times" reporter Judith Miller served 85 days in jail, waiting for an assurance that her source voluntarily waived his right to confidentiality. Miller's attorney insists that guarantee of an uncoerced waiver came just a few days ago. But why did it take so long?
ROBERT BENNETT, MILLER'S ATTORNEY: That's a question that I can't answer. And you'd have to direct it to the source. Everybody knew where Judy was. And it would seem to me, if there was any doubt about it, the source certainly had the obligation or certainly -- yes, the obligation, to call her.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And that source has been reported, as we mentioned, Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Scooter Libby. His attorney has said that he waived that right to confidentiality more than a year ago. But Judith Miller felt that members of the administration may have been forced to sign those waiver forms or else lose their jobs. And what she wanted was a personal conversation with Mr. Libby in which he gave his OK for her to talk to the grand jury -- Lou.
DOBBS: The issue of coercion, which was implicit in the pro forma waivers that all of the staffers of the White House were asked to sign a year ago, Bob Bennett in that interview with Wolf Blitzer saying that he did not talk to Libby's attorney until August 31. That was the first time they had a conversation. She was already in jail. SYLVESTER: Well, Floyd Abrams, one of Judith Miller's other attorneys, supposedly had this conversation earlier. But Floyd Abrams is saying they never brought that up to him.
It was very clear what Judith Miller was looking for was a conversation with Mr. Libby saying that she had the OK. And that was known to all parties. But for whatever reason, that did not happen, really, until the last few days ago -- Lou.
DOBBS: And this puts squarely the focus once again on this special investigation with Patrick Fitzgerald, and we look forward to resolution of what has been an extraordinarily lengthy investigation, so far without result. Thank you, Lisa Sylvester.
Today's testimony by Judith Miller returns the White House CIA leak case to public attention. And it certainly adds to mounting political problems for the Bush administration.
White House correspondent Dana Bash reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Scooter Libby's lawyer describes this scene as baffling. Judy Miller never had to spend a day in jail, he says, because the vice president's chief of staff relayed word a year ago she was free to talk.
Puzzling from a legal perspective, maybe. But troubling politically, a problem the Bush White House would rather do without.
REP. CHRIS SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: If what they did was legal but inappropriate, or not ethical, they need to step up to the plate and acknowledge they did something unethical or inappropriate. And -- but to just totally act like nothing happened, no, then it looks too much like a cover-up.
BASH: Libby has nothing to hide, his lawyer insists, saying there's no indication he is the target of the CIA leaks investigation.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good morning, Mr. Rove.
BASH: That's what deputy chief of staff Karl Rove's lawyer says, too. That when this investigation is done, it will be clear he did nothing illegal.
But the courts of law and public opinion operate by very different rules. Perception matters in politics. And this reminder: senior Bush aides are subjects of a criminal investigation, caps a week where allegations of Republican abuse of power top the news.
A powerful House ally indicted for improperly using corporate donations. And the Senate Republican leader under investigation for a questionable stock sale.
Timing matters in politics, too. And for the president specifically, more talk of top officials' involvement in the leak case comes at what Bush aides admit is an already difficult moment of his presidency...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dropping it out into the water to people in need.
BASH: ... still reeling from the image of a botched response to a major catastrophe...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Give peace a chance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Give peace a chance.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Give peace a chance.
BASH: ... and more protests at his door. Slumping support for the Iraq war. Trying to come to grips with sky high gas prices aides suspect are at the core of his plummeting approval rating.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And one top Bush official was circumspect about the mounting challenges here, saying when it starts raining hard all around you, it's hard to pay attention to every drop that falls -- Lou.
DOBBS: Dana, Scooter Libby has never been much in the public eye. Karl Rove, certainly the opposite, very much so. But his visibility has certainly receded in recent weeks. Is that obviously an approach that is consciously a strategy of the White House?
BASH: Well, it's interesting. When you sort of look back over the past four-plus years of the Bush presidency, Rove's profile has definitely not been as high as it was during the first campaign. And during the second campaign it was a little bit higher.
Actually, if you look back, he hasn't had a public high profile for some time. The White House understands that Democrats like to use him as their bogeyman. And so he definitely has a very powerful force. He is a powerful force inside. But publicly, he hasn't been out there very much at all.
DOBBS: Dana Bash, thank you very much, from the White House.
Still ahead, fierce wildfires still raging out of control in Los Angeles tonight. The latest on California's wildfires and its new threat to California homes.
Also, New Orleans neighborhoods reopening to some residents. But are they taking their lives in their own hands? That story and a great deal more coming right up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tonight a massive wildfire to the northwest of Los Angeles has spread to more than 20,000 acres. Hundreds of people have abandoned their homes.
Peter Viles reports now from Simi Valley, California.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For this army of firefighters 3,000 strong received some good news this morning in the form of the weather forecast. Those hot and dry Santa Ana winds which have fueled this fire from the outset are not blowing today in the Los Angeles area. In addition, the temperature is a little cooler. So a much better condition to fight this fire. And for that reason, earlier today, fire officials were quite optimistic about their chances against this blaze today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Humidities have been coming up. They came up last night, which helped us out a lot, helped the firefighters out a lot. The winds quit blowing. Right now we're kind of in transition. It's very still out there because we have this east influence and this west influence and we're basically still here.
VILES: Now, the main concern yesterday had been that this fire might move south, far enough and fast enough to jump the 101 Freeway and enter into the heavily residential communities of Thousand Oaks and Calabasas.
Today that is not a serious concern. In fact, some people in those neighborhoods are allowed back in their homes today.
The bigger concern is here where we are in Simi Valley at the northern reaches of this fire, where a flare-up is making a run at a ridge behind me and is gaining ground on a residential community, maybe three quarters of a mile away where we are.
Just in the past few minutes firefighters here have changed tactics and started to lay down some fire to create a fire break to stop this flare-up from marching across that ridge and threatening the homes of Simi Valley.
So this fire 20 percent contained this morning. No update since then. Still a very serious fire. And firefighters treating it with a great deal of respect.
Peter Viles reporting from Simi Valley, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And of course, CNN will continue to cover those wildfires.
In fact, in the Los Angeles suburb of Burbank tonight, firefighters are trying to contain another serious wildfire. This fire brought under control, it was thought, yesterday. But it flared again today; 500 acres in burr bank's wildwood and stow canyon areas are now engulfed in flame. Voluntary evacuations are under way. This fire, we're told, poses no immediate threat to any homes or buildings in Burbank at this hour.
People who fled their homes in parts of New Orleans started to return today. That despite the fact that many places still don't have electricity, clean drinking water, nor adequate sewage systems. Still, Mayor Ray Nagin has demanded that areas like the French Quarter and the Garden District be reopened for residents and business.
Dan Lothian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DIANA CROSS, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: Getting ready to put it on the market.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For uptown resident Diana Cross, there's no place like home.
CROSS: Feels good to be home.
LOTHIAN: Her boyfriend's house across town was destroyed. But her homecoming was sweet.
CROSS: I am so lucky. Yes, I'm beyond words lucky. There doesn't seem to be any major damage. Just some trees down, and my fence is gone on one side. Otherwise it looks great.
LOTHIAN: But it didn't smell great, at least not around the refrigerator.
CROSS: Oy. Oh, God. Oh, my God. OK.
LOTHIAN: The New Orleans lawyer spent her morning cleaning up, unpacking, and flushing faucets. She had spent the last month living in multiple hotel rooms and relying on the kindness of friends, all the while worried about what she had left behind.
CROSS: I was tremendously nervous. I was worried about looting; I was worried about fires. I didn't know if, when the electricity came on, if something would happen and the house would catch on fire.
LOTHIAN: But it didn't. Now Cross will stay in the house that she had planned to put on the market the day Katrina hit.
A few blocks away, past the power crews making repairs, the tree crews clearing debris, and a giant vacuum cleaning drains, we found Dorothy Parker Gray, worried that the neighborhood she had fled from before Katrina hit had lost its soul.
DOROTHY PARKER GRAY, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: Looked like a ghost town in here. Didn't see my neighbors like I'm used to seeing them.
LOTHIAN: She didn't have to wait long.
GRAY: Yes, neighbor, we made it!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We survived!
GRAY: Yes, we did.
LOTHIAN: She had survived and so had the home she was born in 76 years ago.
GRAY: I've been on edge, because I didn't know if the house had blown away or whatever.
LOTHIAN: Only a ceiling in one room collapsed. She won't return for good just yet.
GRAY: It's got to be aired out, it's got to be cleaned out.
LOTHIAN: But considering the scope of this disaster, Gray says the word "fortunate" doesn't quite describe her situation.
GRAY: I'm blessed. Not fortunate, I am truly blessed. See, I'm 76 years old. And I wouldn't be ready to think about building again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LOTHIAN: Health and safety issues remain at the top of the list, the mayor saying that people should enter at their own risk.
Now, those health concerns in particular have to do with a lot of mold and also questions about what may be in the environment. And as you mentioned earlier, as well, Lou, the water, you can't drink the water and it won't be able to be cleaned up for at least quite some time. So those remain a concern.
And also the structures themselves. Some have been tagged with notices that the roof is either not stable and the foundation might have shifted as well, so residents have to make sure and make repairs before they are allowed to move in.
And one other note, late this afternoon the mayor at a press conference said that he was forming a Bring Back New Orleans Commission made up of 17 people, including jazz musician Wynton Marsalis. These are people who would advise the mayor and the city on ways to rebuild this city. He hopes to have a final study from them by the end of the year -- Lou.
DOBBS: Well, I know jazz is very important in New Orleans. But rebuilding New Orleans is going to require a little more expertise and a lot more brought from a number of quarters in the country, as well as within Louisiana.
Looking behind you there, Dan, it's clear that there is a great deal of clean-up to do. As you say, not even drinking water available. Is the city taking special -- making special efforts to bring in drinking water for the citizens who do choose to risk everything and return?
LOTHIAN: Well, what the mayor said to those who were returning back to their homes is that you should bring your own drinking water, bring in your own food. Because as you know, the infrastructure is still not completely in place. And so he said in order to be on the safe side, you need to bring in all your own supplies.
DOBBS: Dan Lothian from New Orleans, thank you. When we continue, "Broken Borders." One group's multi billion dollar proposal to protect the country along our southern border. We'll have that story.
And health officials back away from an alarming prediction of bird flu deaths. I'll be talking about the threat of a global bird flu pandemic with the leading official from the National Institutes of Health, next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: A group called We Need a Fence is launching a campaign to build a state of the art security fence along our southern border. That group says our porous borders remain a significant national security threat. Something that we've been reporting on this broadcast, of course, for years.
Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The fence separating the United States and Mexico is a mish mash of good intentions and bad results. In some places, like near San Diego, it's heavily fortified and nearly impenetrable. Elsewhere, it's barbed wire, often cut, little more than an inconvenience for someone illegally crossing the border. And for hundreds of miles it's nonexistent.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because illegal immigration from Mexico provides easy cover for terrorists.
WIAN: Next week a conservative group will begin running national TV ads and raising money to convince lawmakers to fence the entire 2,000-mile southern border.
COLIN HANNA, WENEEDAFENCE.COM: The purpose of our campaign, among other things, is to demonstrate how broad and how deep the public support is for truly getting serious about border security patrol. Not just adding a few more detention beds. Not just adding a few more hundred or a few thousand border patrol agents. But really getting serious. And you can't get serious without securing the border with a physical barrier.
WIAN: Only about 80 miles of the border is protected by secure fencing today. Crossings are down sharply in those areas. But illegal alien traffic has simply moved elsewhere.
WeNeedAFence.com estimates a state of the art border-wide barrier with video monitors could be built for between $4 and $8 billion. One lawmaker proposes a simpler razor-wire topped chain link fence, costing $680 million.
REP. STEVE KING (R), IOWA: Fifty-eight percent of the people that still live in Mexico believe they have a right to come to the United States. Let's build the cheap fence first and quick, and then go ahead with the support that they're proposing behind that so that we can have parallel fences.
WIAN: Though a fence alone won't stop illegal immigration, support for the proposal is growing.
MICHAEL CUTLER, FORMER INS AGENT: I'm afraid that they'll just seek different ways of coming here. So we really need to address all of the issues. I would call this a very good first step.
WIAN: Opposition remains widespread, especially among open borders advocates, Mexican President Vicente Fox, and many environmental groups.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: Environmentalists blocked completion of a three-mile stretch of fence near the Pacific Ocean for nearly a decade. The Department of Homeland Security just received clearance to finish that job this month -- Lou.
DOBBS: It would be a long process if we were to go 16 miles at a time. This is a remarkable proposal. How well financed is this effort?
WIAN: They're just beginning to raise money. There's been a $1 million donation to start the campaign, and they're looking for funds. They say they're getting a lot of support from Congress, a lot of support from the public, and they're confident that they can actually make it happen, Lou.
DOBBS: And the web site is?
WIAN: WeNeedAFence.com.
DOBBS: Couldn't be more straightforward. Casey Wian, thank you.
WIAN: OK.
DOBBS: That brings us to our poll question tonight. Do you support building a security fence along our border with Mexico? Yes or no? Cast your vote at Loudobbs.com. We'll have the results for you later in the broadcast.
On that broken southern border with Mexico, this week -- weekend, an offshoot of the Minuteman Project begins four new border patrols, trying to keep illegal aliens from crossing into this country. The Minutemen Civil Defense Corps will patrol the borders of California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas for the next 30 days. The group is also launching a new border patrol initiative tomorrow on the U.S. border with Canada as well.
Coming up next, damage control at the World Health Organization after an alarming warning about the bird flu. Which is correct? The mitigated warning or the original warning that declared the bird flu could kill as many as 150 million people? I'll be talking with the director of the National Institutes of Health, Allergy and Infectious Diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci, next. And then, a shortage of nurses in this country just when we need them most. We'll have a special report on inadequate public policy, bad economics, and a remarkable solution to our crisis.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Some confusion tonight at the World Health Organization over the deadly bird flu. Health officials yesterday warned that a global bird flu pandemic was imminent and could kill five million to 150 million people.
But now, world health officials are backing away from that estimate, giving a far more modest estimate of two to seven million people. The numbers come from a study by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Separately, the Senate has added $4 billion to a Pentagon spending bill in an effort to prevent a human outbreak of the deadly avian virus. The majority of that money would be used to stockpile a bird flu vaccine.
Joining me now from Washington, Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. Doctor, good to have you with us.
DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASE: Good to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: Let's start with this estimate: 150 million people certainly is an alarming, alarming estimate. And the World Health Organization backing away.
FAUCI: Right.
DOBBS: First, how the estimate. And secondly, is it correct to pull back from that estimate?
FAUCI: I think so. When I first heard that number, Lou, I thought that was really, really off the edge there a bit. I mean, you can never really predict. Most of these numbers, if not all of them, are guesstimates, as it were. But to go as high as 150 is about as bad as you could possibly get. And I believe that the -- not the revised but the original CDC estimate of up to seven million is much more likely, even in a bad scenario.
DOBBS: And I want to point out to our viewers that Dr. Fauci is, if not the first, certainly among the very first to talk about the serious public health threat posed by avian flu.
Doctor, at the same time, in 1918, with a flu pandemic, those numbers far higher than these estimates at a time when there was less globalization. Why do we think we would be so much more successful now with so many more people as well?
FAUCI: I don't think it's a question, Lou, of being successful or not. That was -- if you look at the twentieth century and even just in all history -- one of the worst pandemics that we've ever had. There were about 40 million people who died worldwide.
You're correct. The population of the world was much smaller than it is right now. But that was the worst, worst case scenario. We had two other pandemics in 1957 and 1968. And in 1957, which was even worse than '68, there were 72,000 people in the United States that died. If you have the 150 million estimate here, you're talking about millions and millions of people dying in the United States.
So I think that 150 number is really quite high.
DOBBS: Is that 150 million, again, a case of someone doing a straight line extrapolation?
FAUCI: Exactly. Exactly. What they could say is, well, how many (INAUDIBLE) there are -- there are 6 billion people. The mortality is this percent. You do the math and figure it out. But that's just not a valid way to do it.
DOBBS: Of course not. It's hardly ever valid in any discipline or field.
Doctor, our ability to respond to the threat, irrespective of the total threat, our ability to respond, American pharmaceutical companies, supplies of vaccine, potential vaccines, is there any reason to be more hopeful tonight?
FAUCI: Well, you know, we have a great challenge, Lou, as we've discussed before. We have a vaccine that in trials showed favorable some results that it could induce the kind of response that could be protective.
So it's not a question of having the vaccine or not. The production capability globally is really not up to what we would need. And we have to scramble in a very aggressive way. And that's exactly what Secretary Leavitt is doing in working with the pharmaceutical companies to see if we can get the surge capacity to be able to rev up and get our scaling up when we need it.
But we are still not anywhere near there not only for vaccine, but also for the drugs, the anti-virals. We have some in the stockpile, a couple of million. We're going to add an additional couple of million by December. But that's not anywhere near where we want to be. We want to ultimately get up to and beyond 20 million and perhaps even to get to about 25 percent of the population covered.
DOBBS: And implicit in what you say, in time.
FAUCI: Right, exactly.
DOBBS: Dr. Anthony Fauci, thank you very much as always.
FAUCI: Good to be here, Lou.
DOBBS: Tonight, one of the most important professions for the care of our population is in crisis. There is a dangerous shortage of nurses in this country and the cause may surprise you. Thousands of Americans who want to become nurses have simply been turned away by nursing schools. And the reason? There is no one to teach them. Kitty Pilgrim reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KITTY PILGRIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): 125,000 students couldn't get into nursing school last year. There wasn't enough space, not enough teachers to teach them. Applicants turned away, even though there is a severe nursing shortage in this country and every new nurse is practically guaranteed a job.
Cheryl MacDonald is studying to be a nurse and is thrilled the average salary runs about $50,000 a year. But starting salaries can run $60,000 to $70,000 in major metropolitan areas.
CHERYL MACDONALD, 4TH YEAR NURSING STUDENT: I knew going in, I knew how tight it was to try to get into the nursing program. I was so excited when I was accepted right away into it. Some of my friends had to wait a year.
PILGRIM: Mary Mundinger runs one of the highest ranked nursing schools in the country.
MARY MUNDINGER, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF NURSING: I think that the salaries are definitely better. I think most hospital administrators are waking up to the fact that nurses are professionals who have a very high level of critical thinking skills. We should be given more responsibility for the decisions that they make.
PILGRIM: The country will need about 3 million nurses in the next seven years. There are only about 2.2 million nurses right now. That leaves room for hundreds of thousands of new nurses.
JULIE BLISS, WILLIAM PATTERSON UNIVERSITY NURSING SCHOOL: It's heartbreaking, really when I interview many students who say, "I just -- I want to talk to you because I'll be a good nurse." And I know they would. "I'll work really hard for you, Dr. Bliss, please give me a chance." I would love to give then a chance. I just cannot accommodate them. I don't have faculty. I don't have classrooms.
PILGRIM: The faculty shortage is not easily solved. Dr. Bliss says many teachers with doctorates make less than the students who graduate and go on to hospitals.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(on camera) So the problem is not convincing more students to go into nursing, it's finding more ways to train then. Deans of nursing schools say other medical professions are considered critical. They get a boost from all kinds of support, government support. And it's time that nursing became more of a priority for a country that clearly needs more nurses -- Lou.
DOBBS: And the doctors with whom I've talked about this issue clearly, want to see public policy directed at the issue. It is one in which there is no public policy. In point of fact, we have a 250,000 shortage right now of nurses. They've begun to address pay. But at the same time, pay structures, it's crazy.
PILGRIM: The great irony is that so many young people want to go into this profession. They can't even get in at this point.
DOBBS: Something has to be done. And irrespective of your politics, it's going to have to begin with public policy.
Thank you very much, Kitty Pilgrim.
The nursing shortage in this country is attracting thousands of nurses from overseas. Eight thousand nurses will soon be arriving from India.
Satinder Bindra reports now from New Delhi.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First it was software engineers. Now it's Indian nurses heading to and hoping to make it big in the United States.
Anu Thomas coaches Indian nurses to pass a U.S. nursing and English language exam. It's a rigorous two-year process, one that Thomas knows well. A few months ago, she herself passed all the exams to provide patient care at U.S. hospitals.
The U.S. nursing shortage has existed. But it's getting worse.
Currently, there are about 150,000 job openings and growing interest in India to fill them.
ANU THOMAS, INDIAN NURSE: I think it's, as they say, the land of opportunity.
So there must be something in store for me.
BINDRA: Compared to U.S. nurses whose annual earnings average nearly $50,000, nurses working in India make only $1,500 a year. This huge disparity in wages draws thousands of Indian nurses to such rapidly growing training centers where they're groomed for export.
CHARU MODI, NURSE TRAINER: I'm hoping that this will be a huge tidal wave of interest from people that would see this as a prime profession in the U.S. to come.
BINDRA: With nearly 900,000 registered nurses, India now wants to compete head on with The Philippines in the race to fill U.S. nursing vacancies.
(on camera): Indian nurses say their biggest advantage in the U.S. will be their proficiency in English and world-renowned technical and medical education.
(voice-over): Their weakness could be little practical knowledge of U.S. working conditions. But trainer and nurse Anu Thomas who's just heard she's found work in Florida says she's not concerned. THOMAS: It would be a challenge. And I am excited to go ahead and take up that challenge.
BINDRA: Thousands of other Indian nurses now want to follow in Thomas' footsteps. Many are aware of U.S. Labor Department projections that by 2020, there will be a shortfall of 800,000 nurses in the United States.
Satinder Bindra, CNN, New Delhi.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: And coming up next here, wage outrage. New demands for the White House to allow the prevailing wage for Americans rebuilding the Gulf Coast. Congresswoman Linda Sanchez is urging the White House to take action and to roll back an earlier decision. She's our guest here next.
And then the new chief justice arrives for his first day on the job. Now the White House turns towards the next vacancy to fill on the court. That and a great deal more coming right up. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The White House under fire for its decision to deny prevailing wages for Americans working to rebuild the Gulf Coast.
My next guest is one of 114 Democrats who sent a letter to the president urging him to rescind his waiver of the Davis-Bacon Act -- the letter saying, quote, "Undermining the basic worker protection law serves to further economically depress a region that has been so devastated by natural destruction. This is a cost we simply cannot afford."
Congresswoman Linda Chavez joins us now from Washington.
Congresswoman, the White House has defended the waiver. They're saying it will actually save federal money, open opportunities for women and minority-owned businesses. What's your response?
U.S. REPRESENTATIVE LINDA SANCHEZ (D), CALIFORNIA: I think that's a euphemism.
The reality is that they've suspended the contracting requirements for women and minority-owned businesses. And what rescinding the Davis-Bacon wage guarantees does is it allows out of state and large contractors like the Halliburtons of the world to come in, import labor from other states and undercut the local wages and pay as little wage as possible.
DOBBS: First I guess, has there been any response to your letter?
SANCHEZ: We have not received thus far a response from the White House. And we're actually quite surprised that they haven't jumped on this a little bit sooner. DOBBS: Congressman George Miller from California has introduced a bill that would repeal Bush's order waiving the Davis-Bacon Act. What do you think the prospects are for passage?
SANCHEZ: Well, right now, we have -- I believe there are 205 members of the House of Representatives. Every Democrat in the House of Representatives has signed on to that piece of legislation. We are looking to hit the magic number of 218 in order to get a discharge petition going, which would allow that to be automatically voted for on the House of Representatives, bypassing the committee structure requirements.
DOBBS: Congresswoman, I was talking with a U.S. senator and I asked him about this. He expressed in response the simple statement, "He's a free trader."
This senator happened to be asking for $250 billion of taxpayer money, depending upon, in point of fact, the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers for the very survival of a good part of the state of Louisiana.
How do you deal with that kind of reasoning?
SANCHEZ: Well, the notion that it has anything to do with free trade is ridiculous unless he's interested in trading in misery, because that's exactly what's happening here.
You are kicking people who have been devastated when they're down, workers who have lost their homes, even family members, obviously their jobs. And they should be the first ones put back to work once a reconstruction begins.
And what Davis-Bacon does is it allows, again, contractors to make a profit off of the misery of others.
So I have no tolerance for somebody who says that they're a free trader and that this is somehow going to be more efficient. What it basically does is it further victimizes people who have already been devastated.
DOBBS: Congresswoman Sanchez, thank you very much for being here.
SANCHEZ: My pleasure.
DOBBS: A reminder now to vote in our poll tonight. The question: Do you support building a security fence along our border with Mexico? Yes or no.
Cast your vote at loudobbs.com. We'll be bringing you the results here in just a few minutes.
Still ahead, the week's headlines from Judith Miller to Judge John Roberts. Three of the nation's leading political journalists join me to discuss the issues.
And "Heroes" -- our salute to our men and women in uniform.
All of that and a great deal more coming right up.
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DOBBS: Joining me now, three of the country's best political journalists.
From Washington, Karen Tumulty, "Time" magazine; Ron Brownstein, "Los Angeles Times"; Roger Simon, "U.S. News & World Report."
Thank you all. Good to see you.
Karen, let me begin with our colleague in the craft, Judith Miller. Today, after 85 days in jail appearing before the federal grand jury.
KAREN TUMULTY, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Yes.
You know, Lou, I am having trouble figuring out what the heck happened here. You know, she now says she feels that she got a personal and direct waiver from her -- the person who was apparently her source, Scooter Libby, the vice president's chief of staff. But Libby's people are saying that, that was available to her a year ago. So...
DOBBS: But didn't we hear the same thing in point of fact from Matt Cooper with his source, Karl Rove?
TUMULTY: Yes, but he didn't -- and that was why he didn't go to jail. So I don't quite understand what the deal is here. And I think it's going to be very interesting...
DOBBS: When you say that's why he didn't go to jail -- the reason he didn't go to jail is because Karl Rove gave him that personal assurance.
TUMULTY: Right. Right. Exactly, exactly.
DOBBS: And Scooter Libby didn't.
What do you think, Ron?
RON BROWNSTEIN, "LOS ANGELES TIMES": Of course the dispute is -- there is some dispute about when the assurance was given.
I think the main thing from the point of view of the country here is that this means that there is no real stumbling block left to resolving this case.
And I think most people in Washington are expecting that the special prosecutor is going to have to put his cards on the table very soon and tell us where he's going, if he's going anywhere, and charging anyone in this entire strange affair.
DOBBS: Entire strange affair. Roger Simon, how much credit do you give Judy Miller for sticking up for the principles that we all adhere to; that is, suffering the consequences, if necessary, to protect confidential sorts?
ROGER SIMON, "U.S. NEWS & WORLD REPORT": I certainly agree with that principle. And I certainly admire her for spending all that time in jail.
But like Karen, I'm confused about why it was necessary. The judge who sent her to jail said to her, "You say you're protecting your sources but you're not because your sources have signed waivers."
So now it becomes a question whether the waiver was sincere or insincere, or forced or not forced. I just can't believe a lawyer would let his client go to jail for 85 days without calling the source up and saying, "Hey, give her a call and tell her it's OK."
DOBBS: It's going to be interesting. Because Judy Miller, the New York Times, I think deserve great credit for preserving an important principle of the craft, if you will, and an important part of the public's right to know.
Floyd Abrams and Robert Bennett certainly are two of the best in the country.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Again, like I said, I think as Roger and Karen have both said, I think a lot of people confuse exactly what happened here. And there are going to be a lot of news organizations trying to figure out exactly how they're going to respond if something like this comes down the pike again.
But of course, you know, Lou, the other aspect of this, as I said, is that this now moves us in a position where we can expect this, where we should be expecting this to be resolved. And it comes at a time when there are already all sorts of scandal or ethical controversy winds blowing in Washington already, and really has the potential to be one more kind of match on a very explosive situation.
DOBBS: Karen, the national news organizations have been all but -- well, frankly, less than vigorous in their support of Judy Miller. "The New York Times" and the principle that she went to jail for. The national media has also been all but mute on this case, the CIA/White House leak case. What is your reaction to that?
TUMULTY: Well, I guess I sort of disagree. My magazine put it on the cover, so that hardly counts as mute.
DOBBS: I'm sorry, when did they put it on the cover there at "Time"?
TUMULTY: During the -- we put Karl Rove on the cover for the middle of all this. So it isn't like we haven't been writing quite a bit about this case. And as far as the...
DOBBS: Don't put me in the position of criticizing "Time" magazine. But... TUMULTY: Well, anyway, but you talk about the principle that she went to jail for...
DOBBS: But, yes, I think you would say -- I think we could stipulate that the national media has not focused, with any great vigor, on this case.
TUMULTY: Well, and also, I believe the editorial pages of just about every newspaper in the country have just repeatedly editorialized it. But you mentioned the principle for which she went to jail. The problem here is that the courts have now pretty much destroyed this principle. We -- I think we've all been shocked to learn how little protection there really is for a journalist who's determined to protect his or her source.
DOBBS: And do you think, in point of fact, that given all that is going on, Ron -- the White House facing issues with the Republican Senate majority leader, Bill Frist, on sale of stock; Tom DeLay being indicted by certainly an enthusiastic Democratic prosecutor in Travis County, Texas. Where are we headed here?
BROWNSTEIN: Well, you know, all of this comes, Lou, at a time when, leaving aside these ethical tempests, there are real world stresses of enormous magnitude pressing on this White House. They've -- you know, obviously had a very rough year in their polls after dissatisfaction -- with dissatisfaction mounting over Iraq and gas prices, Katrina continues to be a source of debate. And you've got a lot of different things coming into this Republican congressional majority in the White House from different directions.
The question I think they face, even if they can surmount any of these individual challenges, even if DeLay survives this trial, even if the charges against Frist are dismissed at some point or never brought, the question is when do they pivot, when do they begin to get back onto a positive agenda? They really have been in a defensive crouch almost since the Iraqi election. Very little good has happened to them in the last ten months or so.
DOBBS: Roger, your thoughts? And we should point out President Bush's, his approval rating in the latest poll, moving higher.
SIMON: Yes, it's moved higher in one week. I think it's important to look at polls over a longer time.
DOBBS: You know, that's funny, because, you know, we report -- and I think we're all funny, and I don't mean to suggest your comment is, by itself, funny -- but Roger, we report with great fanfare when the president's polls are plummeting. When they go up, we take the long view.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMON: It's impossible to look at the year 2005 and say that public support has not diminished for George Bush and his ability to run the country. And with Iraq still around his neck like an albatross, it's hard to see where the light at the end of the tunnel comes.
DOBBS: We thank you very much. Judge Roberts, the chief justice of the United States, that certainly a positive development for a White House that is, as you've pointed out, heavily beleaguered. Karen, Ron, Roger, thank you very much.
Now, heroes. Our salute to men and women in uniform. Tonight, the story of chief warrant officer David Dunfee, a gunner in the U.S. marine corps, in his second tour of duty in Iraq near the Syrian border.
Alex Quade has his story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALEX QUADE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Chief Warrant Officer David Dunfee fought in the battle of Nasiriyah two years ago. He's now in Al Asad, his second Iraq war deployment.
(on camera): So this is your silver star?
(voice-over): Dunfee earned it for moving his marines through Nasiriyah and dealing with a friendly fire incident.
CHIEF WARRANT OFFICER DAVID DUNFEE, USMC: I'm not any kind of hero. The marines that I was with that day, they're the heroes.
QUADE: 18 marines died that day. We were at their battlefield service.
DUNFEE: There's grief, yes. It's heart-rending, yes. It's gut- wrenching, yes. But you have other marines' lives at stake. I've got to focus on those other guys, the ones that are still walking around. So you learn from it.
QUADE: Learn, and live to fight again. Many in his platoon today were with him then.
DUNFEE: In combat, you kind of just go to what comes natural. You have a job to do and you just don't think about it. There's no way you can prepare mentally for the horrors of combat.
QUADE: His first week back, his vehicle hit an improvised explosive device.
DUNFEE: There was a bang. All I remember is the bang.
QUADE (on camera): So the armor plating on the humvee saved your lives?
DUNFEE: Saved our lives.
QUADE: But many were injured.
DUNFEE: We were injured. But everybody walked away. Welcome to Iraq. QUADE (voice-over): He says insurgents are making bombs from stockpiled ordinance, like what he showed us two years ago.
DUNFEE: You cannot fathom the amount of ordinance that was just everywhere. And you can imagine now the things that we're dealing with are those same issues. This whole country was an ammo dump. And we are cleaning those things up as we find them.
QUADE (on camera): What is the most important thing for Americans and families back home to know about Nasiriyah and the lessons learned there?
DUNFEE: Ask the people that are here doing the fighting and doing the dying and you will hear from them that they feel the mission is sound. They understand why they're here. They understand why casualties happened. Because that happens in doing a tough job like this.
QUADE (voice-over): Dunfee expects a third tour in Iraq next year.
Alex Quade, CNN, Al Asad, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DOBBS: Dunfee has been a marine for 26 years. He plans to serve four more years before he will retire from the U.S. Marine Corps.
Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight. A preview of Monday's broadcast. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The results of our poll tonight, overwhelming. Eighty- nine percent of you support building a security fence along our border with Mexico.
Thanks for being with us tonight. Have a very pleasant weekend. Good night from New York.
"ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts right now.
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