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CNN Live Today

The Plame Game; Western Wildfire; Space Tourist

Aired September 30, 2005 - 10:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: And we're going to go ahead and take a look at what his happening "Now in the News," as the news continues here on CNN.
Crews battling a 20,000-acre wildfire in Los Angeles County may get some help today from the weather. The forecast calls for cooler temperatures and calmer winds. The fire has destroyed a handful of buildings and threatens more than 2,000 other homes and buildings.

In world news, insurgents kept up their bloody attacks in Iraq today. A bomb in a parked car exploded at a vegetable market in Hilla. Police and hospital officials say seven people were killed and more than 40 were wounded.

And the death toll has risen to 87 from three car bombings yesterday in Balad, Iraq. A hundred and twenty people were wounded in those attacks.

John Roberts takes over of the 17th chief justice of the U.S. when the Supreme Court begins its new term on Monday. Roberts was sworn in yesterday after a 78-22 confirmation vote in the Senate. The question now, who will President Bush choose to fill the remaining vacancy on the high court?

The military paid a farewell tribute to the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in a ceremony in this last hour. You saw much of it live here on CNN. General Richard Myers is retiring after four years as Joint Chiefs chairman and 40 years in the military. Marine General Peter Pace is replacing Myers as Joint Chiefs chairman.

Good morning on this Friday morning. Welcome back to CNN LIVE TODAY. Let's check some of the time around the world -- 8:00 a.m. in Los Angeles, California; 11:00 a.m. here in Atlanta, Georgia; and 7:00 p.m. in Moscow.

From CNN Center in Atlanta, I'm Daryn Kagan.

First off this hour, the CIA spy leak. Who outed covert operative Valerie Plame? That investigation may lead to criminal charges.

This summer, the trail seemed to lead to White House political guru Karl Rove. But today, a "New York Times" reporter may point prosecutors to the vice president's office.

Journalist Judith Miller is in front of a grand jury at this hour. Her testimony comes after 85 days behind bars for refusing to I.D. her source. And it comes only after that source, according to Miller, gave her what amounts to a get-out-of-jail free pass. It's a complicated story, a lot of twists, a lot of players.

Our Bob Franken is in Washington to help us sort things out this morning.

Bob, good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Do you have your score card?

KAGAN: I am ready to take notes.

FRANKEN: OK. Let's start with Judith Miller, Judith Miller, "The New York Times" reporter who has come back to this courthouse, the one she departed in handcuffs going to jail 85, 86 days ago now. She's back before the grand jury, has already begun her testimony.

She will be naming, name number two here, Scooter Libby. Scooter Libby is the vice president's chief of staff. He is the person, according to a variety of sources, who has now given her permission to talk, permission, Libby's attorney says, could have been gained quite some time ago.

But Judith Miller put out a statement saying, "I am leaving jail today." This statement came out yesterday. "I am leaving jail today because my source has now voluntarily and personally released me from my promise of confidentiality regarding our conversations relating to the Wilson-Plame matter."

Next name, Joe Wilson, on the score card. He's the former member of administration who questioned some -- some points that the administration made during its campaign to say that there were weapons of mass destruction and a program to build them in the hands of the Iraq administration.

Valerie Plame, Wilson's wife, this is the person who is a confidential CIA agent, or she was, whose name was leaked to Robert Novak and then other reporters. The other name that has come up is Karl Rove, as you pointed out. He's the president's deputy chief of staff, somebody who has also been named as a source.

The last person, Patrick Fitzgerald, he is the prosecutor. He is trying to determine that in the course of identifying Plame, the officials had broken the law. The law requires that if somebody identifies an undercover CIA agent, he must have known he or she was a CIA agent. That is one of the things that they're trying to determine.

In any case, Judith Miller, you remember her, she's the one who is here today testifying before the grand jury after spending a considerable period of time in prison -- in jail -- Daryn. And the last name was Daryn.

KAGAN: Yes. Who is she? Well, Daryn would like to add, actually, another name to the list that kind of shows what a small town Washington can be sometimes. Let's talk about the brothers Bennett and how they both find themselves in the news today.

FRANKEN: It was the "Bennett" name. Bill Bennett is the conservative commentator, now former member of the Reagan administration, the head of the Education Department, among others, who is quoted -- and I'll leave to you give me the exact quote -- very controversial quotes he made that have racial and abortion connections.

KAGAN: OK. Why don't I jump in.

FRANKEN: Go ahead.

KAGAN: I'll jump in with the quote here. He has a syndicated radio show, and he had a caller call in yesterday talking about the crime problem. And he said -- and I hope we have a graphic with this -- but he said, "If you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose. You could abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would be go down. That would be an impossibly ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down."

I need to add, in the issue of fairness, that he did on go on to say, "I was putting forward a hypothetical proposition. Put that forward, examined it, and then said it would be morally reprehensible."

He said he wasn't endorsing the idea, but it does have a lot of people outraged today.

Meanwhile, his brother...

FRANKEN: His brother...

KAGAN: ... how does his brother play into the Judy Miller story?

FRANKEN: His brother right now is in the courthouse. His brother is the well-known attorney, Bob Bennett, representing, among others, President Clinton during the Paula Jones matter, and representing Judith Miller.

So when all these stories were breaking last night -- and I was among the reporters who was called to try and track it down -- I would try and call each of these guys, and I would say, first of all, "Do you have comment on your story? And, by the way, do you know where your brother is?"

Neither one -- neither one was able to help, of course. For a while, though, they were keeping quite mum about their particulars on their story.

But back to this one, Bob Bennett is here with his client, Judith Miller, who is now testifying after her considerable period of time in jail -- Daryn.

KAGAN: Thank you. Bob Franken.

And we will have more on the Bill Bennett story just ahead.

Right now, the spotlight back on the Bush administration. What role, if any, did it play in the leak of a CIA operative's identity?

Our Elaine Quijano picks up the story from there. And she is at the White House this morning.

Elaine, good morning.

ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you, Daryn.

A lawyer for the vice president's chief of staff says that he has no indication, no reason to believe that his client, Scooter Libby, is the target of the investigation. And he says that Libby signed more than a year ago that confidentiality waiver. Unclear then why Judy Miller went to jail.

Now, the lawyer says that after that confidentiality waiver was signed, that it was followed up by a phone call to the "New York Times" lawyer, assuring them that in fact that waiver was signed voluntarily. Nevertheless, a few weeks ago, according to the account from Libby's attorney, Judith Miller's lawyer contacted Libby's attorney and said Miller had not accepted that waiver as valid because it came from lawyers.

Now, the attorney representing Scooter Libby also told CNN, "I assured Bennett" -- that would be Robert Bennett -- "that it" -- the waiver -- "was voluntary. And he asked, 'Would scooter say that to Judy?' And I said, Scooter doesn't want to see Judy in jail. My reaction was, why didn't someone call us 80 days ago?"

Now, after that conversation with the lawyers, Libby actually spoke with Miller by phone. Both attorneys apparently listening into that conversation. And those steps eventually led to Miller's release.

Although, Daryn, one of the other big questions, why did that release not happen immediately after that phone conversation between Libby and Miller took place. It was still about 10 days after that conversation that in fact the release happened.

Now, Libby's attorney says that all along they assumed that Judy Miller was protecting another source, that there was perhaps another reason. But certainly, Daryn, a lot of unanswered questions, a lot of open questions.

For the White House's part, they insist they will not comment on this investigation because it is still very much open. So that is the latest. White House officials not commenting on this at all -- Daryn.

KAGAN: All right. Elaine Quijano, with a lot more questions than answers today. Thank you for that.

Let's take some of those questions to Howard Kurtz. He's a media reporter for "The Washington Post," also the host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES."

Howard, good morning.

HOWARD KURTZ, HOST, "RELIABLE SOURCES": Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: I want to way -- I wan to rewind the tape quite a bit here and point out that Judith Miller never even wrote a story about this. So how does she end up being the target of all this?

KURTZ: That is one of the great mysteries here, because unlike other journalists who got caught in this legal web, including Robert Novak -- and we don't know whether he testified -- Judy Miller never wrote a story. But she did have this breakfast with Lewis Libby, Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, at which the whole Valerie Plame- Joe Wilson business came up.

I reported months ago that they had had a meeting. I didn't know for sure whether they had discussed the CIA leak or not. And so, the further mystery now with her release -- and I do want to say, whether you agree with Judy Miller or not, she did a courageous thing by going to jail for three months for a principle that she believed in. But she basically could have had this deal three months ago.

Matt Cooper of "TIME" magazine made a very similar deal, where Libby, through his lawyers, assured Cooper that he was giving him a personal waiver, not just a blanket waiver. So that has people scratching their heads as well.

KAGAN: Well, and the interesting thing about Judith Miller, though, in terms of protecting sources and going with confidential sources, right now she's the -- you know, the hero and heroine of journalism, but this is also the same woman who received so much criticism in the wake of the war in Iraq because she did so much reporting with confidential sources about alleged weapons of mass destruction that did not pan out.

KURTZ: Reporting that turned out, in large measure, to be wrong. And she is a very controversial figure within journalism.

On the other hand, she's won a Pulitzer Prize, and she's clearly a very tenacious reporter. On the other hand, you described her as a hero or a heroine. Not to a lot of people even in the business, because of her background, as she engenders a lot of animosity.

On the other hand, she also has gotten a lot of admiration for taking this difficult stand, putting her beliefs on the line, going and sleeping on a mattress on a floor in an Alexandria, Virginia, jail. But again, whether that was necessary, given that she ultimately ended up making the same deal to testify with the prosecutor that Matt Cooper and others did, is hard to assess at this point. I think one of the reasons for the delay -- you asked Elaine Quijano about why this didn't happen 10 days ago -- they continued to negotiate the scope of the questioning, what she would be asked once she got in that grand jury room. Matt Cooper ran into a problem. He testified about a year ago, then he got called back again to answer even more wide-ranging questions. And that -- obviously, Judy Miller didn't want to have to go through this more than once.

KAGAN: Right. Now -- OK, let's take this outside of the "gotcha" element of Washington and outside -- outside the beltway, the bigger picture of journalism. What does this all mean?

KURTZ: Well, two quick points, Daryn. One, is that there is a surprisingly little public sympathy. Usually there is when a reporter stands on principle and goes to jail, because unlike in the Deep Throat case, to take the most famous example, you're not protecting here a government whistleblower who was revealing sensitive information about government corruption. You're protecting people who may -- I stress may, because we don't know who may have done this -- were engaging in an act of political vindictiveness by outing a CIA operative.

And at the same time, it's had a chilling effect, this case and others like it. Reporters who do investigative work have told me that sources have clammed up, that they have been reluctant to talk because of fear that some prosecutor might drag another journalist before a grand jury. And reporters themselves are saying to themselves, do I want to promise confidentiality to somebody and suddenly finding myself having to make the Judy Miller decision, do I get separated from my family and go spend months in jail because I've made such a promise?

So, in that sense, the public is the loser because investigative journalism relies so heavily on the trust relationship with unnamed sources. Even though I'm the first to say that reporters, particularly in Washington, overuse and abuse the promise of anonymity. You know, we've all read those stories about senior administration officials and what they have to say.

KAGAN: Yes, we have. Quite a few of them, in fact.

KURTZ: Indeed.

KAGAN: Howard Kurtz, from "The Washington Post," in with us here at CNN.

Howard, thank you.

KURTZ: Thanks, Daryn.

KAGAN: And he'll be back on Sunday afternoon at 1:00 Eastern with "RELIABLE SOURCES." He's going to focus on the CIA leak story and also journalism's role. And the story, it's going to be a special live hour.

Howard, we look forward to seeing that. Flames are whipping across Los Angeles County still at this hour. But will the weather lend a hand in battling the fires? A live report from southern California is just ahead.

Plus, controversial comments from former Education secretary William Bennett. This is what we were talking about with our Bob Franken a little bit. We're going to tell you exactly what he said and while -- why some are calling for an apology, but you know what? So is he.

And another tourist blasts off to space. How much did he have to pay for the ride? We're going live to Moscow.

It's all ahead this hour on CNN LIVE TODAY.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: A moist ocean breeze over southern California this morning. Crews hoping that will give them the edge on a wildfire in northern L.A. County. Hundreds of people are out of their homes this morning, hoping they have a one -- hoping they have a home when this one is over.

Our Dan Simon is covering the fire, and he joins us now from Simi Valley this morning.

Dan, good morning.

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Daryn.

We are at a place that has become a staging area for these firefighters back here. They're basically waiting to see what their marching orders are going to be. At this point, 20 percent of this fire has been contained with 20,000 acres being charred.

As I look up in the sky, we're basically seeing only smoke right now, but a bit earlier there were some flames in the area of Chatsworth. It was a remote area, so no homes were in danger.

The real story thus far has been what's been saved. More than 2,000 homes have been saved. Only one house has really gone up in flames, a couple of additional structures as well.

But firefighters have really done a good job. And with weather conditions improving, they're optimistic that they'll be able to get more of the blaze under control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPT. CARLOS CALVILLO, LOS ANGELES FIRE DEPT.: It's noticeably cooler this morning than it has been the last two mornings. The wind is at a still.

We do have what I feel a little bit of an onshore. The air is literally heavier -- I can feel it right now -- than it has been the last two days. So this is all going to be in our favor. Hopefully the winds will stay down today and we'll be able to get a good handle on this thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON: So conditions have really improved. You know, it was only yesterday when we saw the flames really coming down on some homes. Firefighters, again, doing an outstanding job in protecting these homes. Those air drops really made a difference.

A live look here. You see a bulldozer coming in. This is one of the bulldozers that's going to be brought in here in Simi Valley to create a fire line, clearing away the brush.

And meanwhile, Daryn, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger, we're told, going to be showing up in the area a bit later on. He's going to take an aerial tour and also give a press conference.

Back to you.

KAGAN: All right, Dan. Looking forward to that. Thank you.

Let's see what the weather picture does look like for southern California. Here's Bonnie Schneider.

(WEATHER REPORT)

KAGAN: One of the country's leading conservatives is coming under fire. What Bill Bennett said that has some critics saying his words were racist, and why he, himself, ios asking for an apology.

Plus, another tourist is going to space. He's taking off tomorrow. A live report from Moscow just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: You know, some people will go to incredible lengths to just get away from it all. One American businessman is going on his own incredible journey.

Matthew Chance has the story. It meant being willing to go through months of difficult training and spending millions of dollars of his own money.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's the ticket of a lifetime. Twenty million dollars for the trip, and 60-year-old U.S. businessman Greg Olsen is only the third space tourist to fork out the cash.

GREG OLSEN, SPACE "PARTICIPANT": I had three reasons. One was just the joy of being in space, weightlessness and so on. I still hope to bring my infrared camera up on board. And three is to share the experience with kids.

CHANCE: For months, he's been immersed in Russian cosmonaut training, having a flight seat cast in the exact shape of his body and fitted with a flight suit for the journey.

He'll be launched into orbit on board a Russian Soyuz rocket, then dock for just over a week at the International Space Station, a highly trained U.S. and Russian crew at the controls.

CMDR. WILLIAM MCARTHUR: Well, Larry and I have done a significant amount of training just as a two-person crew. And so integrating a third person for us just gives us more capability. And so we're very confident that having Greg with us, even in an emergency, will be an asset.

CHANCE: It's the same journey taken in 2001 by U.S. entrepreneur Dennis Tito, the first paying space tourist. Mark Shuttleworth, a South African, became the second a year later. The U.S.-based company organizing the trips says it plans to expand space tourism, even offering a flight around the moon for $100 million.

ERIC ANDERSON, SPACE ADVENTURES: Over the next five or ten years at Space Adventures, we will fly more people in space as commercial passengers, as tourists and private explorers, than have flown in space in the history of mankind. Over the next five or ten years. And long-term, it will definitely be private companies, alongside governments, that really open up the space frontier and make it something that the rest of humanity can benefit from.

CHANCE: For now, though, commercial space flight remains the preserve of an adventurous and extremely wealthy few.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Moscow.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHANCE: Well, Greg Olsen and the rest of the crew, Daryn, are already locked in quarantine, in readiness for this takeoff to take place. The Russian Soyuz rocket is scheduled to lift off from the Baikonur Cosmodrome in Kazakhstan in a few hours from now. Actually, at about midnight tonight Eastern Time. So a good many hours from now, in fact.

If all goes according to plan, as is expected to, they'll be back on Earth on the 11th of October. So about a 10-day trip after all.

KAGAN: He'll have some very interesting tales to tell, no doubt. Matthew Chance, live from Moscow.

Thank you for that.

And we should let you know that Gregory Olsen should have that interesting story to tell once he returns to Earth. He'll join me here on CNN LIVE TODAY on Monday, October 17, to share that story.

So have you heard this one, what Bill Bennett had to say? The former Education secretary and drug policy chief is on the hot seat this morning for comments about crime, race and abortion. That is ahead.

CNN LIVE TODAY is back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: We're coming up on the half-hour. I'm Daryn Kagan. Here's a look at what's happening "Now in the News."

"New York Times" reporter Judith Miller is out of jail after 12 weeks. Miller was jailed for refusing to give the name of a source to a federal grand jury trying to find out who revealed the name of a CIA agent. An attorney for Lewis Libby says Libby is that source. He is the chief of staff for Vice President Cheney.

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