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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Tom DeLay Indicted on Second Charge; President Bush Chooses Supreme Court Nominee
Aired October 03, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone. Aaron is back tomorrow.
We begin tonight with new legal trouble for Congressman Tom DeLay, another grand jury in Texas handing up another indictment, money laundering this time. It was conspiracy last week, in case you're keeping count, both stemming from an alleged scheme to get around state campaign finance law, and both implicating one of the most powerful men in Washington.
CNN's Joe Johns looks into it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay now stands accused of money laundering, a first-degree felony. In a statement, Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle said the charge is punishable by five years probation to life in prison and a fine of up to $10,000.
This follows last week's indictment on a charge of criminal conspiracy. This new and more serious charge comes after some fast- paced legal maneuvering in Austin, Texas. Late Monday, attorneys for DeLay asked a judge to throw out the conspiracy charge because conspiracy in this context was not yet a crime in 2002, when the alleged wrongdoing occurred. The judge has not yet responded.
DeLay's lawyers say Earle got the new money laundering indictment out of desperation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If this doesn't prove that the motivation behind this indictment is political, then I don't know what it is.
JOHNS: The indictments relate to a plan by Texas Republicans to first take over the Statehouse in 2002, then have the new GOP majority redraw congressional maps. It paid off big.
In 2004, Republicans picked up five extra Texas seats in Congress, adding to DeLay's power. Earle says DeLay and his associates used corporate money, $190,000 funneled through Washington, to win the Texas legislature, in violation of Texas law. Back in April, when I went to meet him, Earle explained his reasoning.
RONNIE EARLE, TRAVIS COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I call that money laundering.
JOHNS (on camera): Why?
EARLE: Well, taking the proceeds of a criminal transaction and using it for other purposes.
JOHNS (voice-over): DeLay's attorneys insist there was no money laundering because all of the financial transactions that took place were perfectly legal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The law was followed. No law's been broken.
JOHNS: DeLay tried to laugh it off, speaking with a Texas radio station.
REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: I'm sorry for laughing. This is -- this is beyond -- it's just unbelievable. I mean, he's making the Keystone Cops look good.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: A source close to the investigation in Austin, speaking on background, tells CNN that the district attorney's office is not conceding any mistake was made in the original indictment and that while, Ronnie Earle's office expects to argue the issue out in court, a decision was made to reindict DeLay just in case -- Anderson.
COOPER: Joe Johns, thanks for that.
Whether charges are political or not, baseless or real, Dick DeGuerin's job just got a lot more complicated.
He's defending Tom DeLay and he joins us now from Houston.
Dick, thanks very much for being with us.
DICK DEGUERIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR TOM DELAY: Sure, Anderson. Nice to be here.
COOPER: Were -- were you surprised when this indictment came down?
DEGUERIN: No.
I -- I felt it coming. There were rumors flying all over that Ronnie had found the same thing that we found. And -- but it took him a lot longer to find it. And that is that there is no conspiracy. There is no conspiracy statute that applies to the election code back in 2000, 2002.
COOPER: It only became part of law, what, in 2003?
DEGUERIN: That's right. In 2003, the legislature changed it.
But, in 2002, when these transactions took place, there was no conspiracy law. But I have to say, this -- this indictment, although it has about eight times as many words, has no more substance than the other one. COOPER: To a layman, though, it sounds like you're just -- you're resting the case on a technicality in the first case.
DEGUERIN: No. No, not at all.
What I said was, there was no crime charged by the indictment. And this indictment doesn't charge any crime. What's really important to remember, Anderson, is that no corporate money went to any individual candidate in Texas. That's the only crime that there could have been.
COOPER: But corporate money was funneled to outside groups, which then sent money back into Texas for Texas candidates?
DEGUERIN: What happened was, the corporate money, which was donated lawfully, was sent to the Republican National Committee, which sent it to places that it could be sent. And then another committee of the Republicans sent money that was collected from individuals to individuals in Texas, all legal. There was no mixture of the two moneys.
COOPER: Was there a quid pro quo? I mean, was there an that, agreement, OK, we will give you X amount of dollars; it would be awfully nice if you guys sent us back some money for our candidates here in Texas?
DEGUERIN: No. No.
The only agreement was, they collected more money than they needed from corporations in Texas, so they sent it to where it could be spent lawfully. And they collected money. The Republicans collected money all over the country for individual races that could be lawfully donated. And that money was sent to Texas.
COOPER: You say Ronnie Earle is doing this all based on politics. He says, yes, he's a Democrat, but of the 12 of the 15 officials that he has prosecuted for corruption, 12 of those have been Democrats.
DEGUERIN: That's same thing he says every time, Anderson.
What the problem is, that when he started out prosecuting his enemies, there were nothing but Democrats around Texas. It's only been in the last 10 years that there have been any Republicans.
COOPER: So, you -- but so you're -- are you saying that he's completely politically motivated?
DEGUERIN: Well, I think he is politically motivated in this case.
And what happened today is proof of it. Once we pointed out to him that he made a mistake, screwed up big time, in other words, and charged a crime that didn't exist, then he ran before a grand jury that was only sworn in today at noon and got this indictment. COOPER: Your client has indicated this is part of some vast left-wing conspiracy, to sort of coin a term that we have heard before in other circumstances. Do you think Ronnie Earle is part of that or is he working independent of that, in your belief?
DEGUERIN: You know, I don't know that anybody would want Ronnie on his team.
And I think Ronnie works independently. That having been said, I'm sick and tired of talking about Ronnie Earle. I have done that before. He's doing or trying to do the same thing that he tried to do to Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison 12 years ago. And that is to destroy her politically.
COOPER: Mr. DeGuerin, appreciate you joining us tonight. Thank you very much.
DEGUERIN: You're welcome. Thank you, Anderson.
COOPER: Now to the president's choice to take Sandra Day O'Connor's choice on the Supreme Court. She's neither a legal scholar, nor a judge, nor, by and large, a politician. She -- who is Harriet Miers?
First and foremost, a loyal confidant of the president, 60 years old, unmarried, said to be a workaholic, the first female head of the Texas Bar Association. She was the president's personal lawyer when he was governor of Texas. She's also served for five years as head of the Texas Lottery Commission. The president brought her to Washington, where she has served as deputy chief of staff for policy and, most recently, as White House counsel, the president's official lawyer.
OK, that's the resume. Here's now some of the reaction. She's a pretty good lawyer, says one former Washington insider. "I worked with Harriet Miers," says another. "She's a lovely person, but nobody would describe her as one of the outstanding lawyers in the United States."
"All in all," someone else adds, "it's not as bad as the -- as Caligula putting his horse in the Senate," Caligula being the deranged Roman emperor. All three quotes, by the way, come from leading conservatives. One used to write speeches for the president.
So, what is going on?
CNN's Candy Crowley takes a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. HARRY REID, MINORITY LEADER: Hello, everyone. I'm happy to be here today with Harriet Miers.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Miers has never been a judge. A resume which prompted a conservative group to call her possibly the most unqualified choice since Lyndon Johnson tapped his lawyer. Meanwhile, the Senate's top Democrat sang her praises.
REID: So anyone with that background makes me feel good. Someone who has been in a courtroom, tried cases, answered interrogatories, done all those things that lawyers need to do.
CROWLEY: In the first week of a nomination, supporters are usually effusive and critics are polite, if not always by miss manner standards.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER, (D) NEW YORK: And my first reaction is a simple one, it could have been a lot worse.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I see no negatives at this stage in Harriet Miers.
CROWLEY: But this time is different. In the yin and yang of Washington politics, if two left leaning Democrats are not unhappy, then right-leaning Republicans must be. Conservative Commentator Rush Limbaugh took the case to the vice president.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, "THE RUSH LIMBAUGH SHOW")
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Some acknowledge on you part that there's some disappointment out there that there's not somebody that can be immediately rallied around and you've got people saying that they're depressed and they're thinking that this is a decision that has let them down and they're frankly a little worn out having to appease the left on all of these choices.
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You'll be proud of Harriet's record, Rush. Trust me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CROWLEY: But conservatives don't want a nomination that require as leap of faith. Stung by an unexpectedly liberal Justice Souter, another choice with a short paper trail, the right wanted a well- documented judicial conservative. Some Republicans believe Miers is a cop-out by a president without the polls or a stomach for a fight. Her selection, wrote conservative William Kristol, will unavoidably be judged as reflecting a combination of cronyism and capitulation.
Yikes. When the friendly fire is that loud, what must the president's most reliable critics be saying? Pretty much the same thing.
TOM MATZZIE, MOVEON.ORG PAC: What we know about her is that she's a friend of the presidents. And when the president is choosing a friend, that wreaks of cronyism.
CROWLEY (on camera): The White House is busy reaching out and reassuring wounded conservatives while Democrats sit back and enjoy the show. The noise was so loud from the right that the Democratic National Committee decided it could wait a day or two before adding its voice to the mix.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, this is perhaps an extreme version of what all modern nominees have gone through. Most, with certain exceptions, settle on saying as little as they can about anything of substance.
This is how Harriet Miers today described her job, if confirmed by the Senate: "To help ensure that the courts meet their obligations to strictly apply the laws and Constitution," pretty standard stuff, that. As for abortion, the White House says the president did not ask her, her views on Roe v. Wade. But, in 1993, Ms. Miers unsuccessfully lobbied the American Bar Association to drop its support for abortion rights. And she has attended a number of events organized by an anti- abortion group, Texans United For Life. No doubt, people are reading into that tonight.
So, abortion, cronyism and confirmability all on the table tonight. Here to talk about it, Nathan Hecht, who serves on the Texas Supreme Court and is a friend of Harriet Miers. Also, Ramesh Ponnuru is the senior editor of "The National Review," and our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.
Gentlemen, thanks very much for being with you -- for being with us.
(CROSSTALK)
What is your take tonight on this?
RAMESH PONNURU, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE NATIONAL REVIEW": Well, I don't think that Harriet Miers was conservatives' first choice or their second or third or even their 15th choice. I think it's a missed opportunity for the president to nominate somebody and get them confirmed who's a solid conservative with a track record and a known quantity, who has given us some evidence that she's thought seriously about the role of the judiciary in our society.
COOPER: Bill Kristol wrote that he is disappointed, depressed and demoralized, I believe.
PONNURU: Demoralized, right.
COOPER: Are you?
PONNURU: I think that I am. And I think a lot of conservatives are right now.
I think that, you know, this is -- the president certainly led people to believe that he was going to appoint justices in the mold of Scalia and Thomas. And a lot of conservatives were very happy about the John Roberts appointment, because he's got stellar credentials and has clearly given a lot of thought.
COOPER: Justice Hecht, you know Ms. Miers. What is she like? Is she conservative enough? JUSTICE NATHAN HECHT, TEXAS SUPREME COURT: Yes, I think she is. And I think, when that -- as her record comes to light in the next few days and weeks, the conservatives will find that they jumped the gun on this and they should have trusted a president who knows this nominee implicitly for the last 10 years.
COOPER: Jeff, how important -- how important is the personal to this president? I mean, personal connections do seem to matter.
(CROSSTALK)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Indeed.
And if you -- if -- I was trying to think of the last time a president appointed anyone this close to him. And it was Lyndon Johnson's appointment of his onetime personal lawyer, Abe Fortas, 40 years ago. That didn't work out right, in part because he kept Fortas an adviser once he got on the court, which you are not supposed to do.
But I think the thing that I think people most expected was -- and going back last spring, a lot of conservatives and even some liberals said, the one thing President Bush needs with these poll numbers going down, he's got to rally the base. So, even though the conservatives may be wrong -- I mean, Texans United For Life is not a pro-choice group. She may well be in the Scalia-Thomas mold -- they wanted somebody that they could go to the mattresses with, if I can quote "The Godfather."
They wanted somebody that they knew they should fight for, which is -- and you're in this odd situation where -- where Harry Reid, the Democratic leader of the Senate, is more favorably disposed to the president's nominee than most of the conservative activists, which, you know, it's like, how do you get back to planet Earth with this?
COOPER: Dinesh (sic), is it enough to hear a conservative say, you know, just trust the president on this, that he knows what he is doing?
PONNURU: No.
I mean, the argument that the administration making is, this was a good decision because the president made it and the president makes good decisions. And that might be enough for a monarchy, but it's plainly not a persuasive argument in a democratic system.
COOPER: Justice Hecht, what do you know that Dinesh (sic) and other conservatives do not know?
HECHT: Well, I know her -- I know her record for the last 30 years. I know what she's done. I know her accomplishments. I know her trailblazing as the first woman president of the Dallas Bar, the state bar, would have been president of the ABA, I'm sure. She was on track to be -- the leadership, president of a firm.
You know, these accomplishments, particularly by a woman lawyer, were -- are really very significant. (CROSSTALK)
HECHT: As well as her significant service in the White House.
COOPER: Jeff?
GREENFIELD: What no one is going to claim or can claim is that this is an appointment -- that was the second thing people suggested. Why don't we get another Justice Roberts? Because, in terms of credentials and performance, it -- he was so clearly at the top of his class, literally and metaphorically, the only way you could oppose him was, well, he didn't tell us enough about what he -- what he stood for.
I am remembering back on the Carswell nomination, a Republican senator saying, well -- who was a terrible appointment -- well, why don't we -- what about mediocrity? Don't mediocre people have a right to be represented? Nobody is saying that about her, but nobody is saying that she is in the same league as Justice Roberts.
And the last thing I would point out is, we don't know what she would do as a justice. The National Organization for Women held a rally when David Souter was nominated and saying, stop Souter or women will die. And he turned out to be one of the most ardent pro-choice people on the court. So, any -- I think this is -- I think the justice is right.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: That's your fear, though, that he is -- that she is another Souter?
PONNURU: She could turn out be to be another Souter. She could turn out to be another Scalia. But we have no reason to think that she is going to be an intellectual force on this court for a conservative view of the Constitution.
COOPER: What does it tell you about this president? I just find it fascinating that the man who ran his selection committee for vice president becomes the vice president, Dick Cheney. The woman who runs his selection committee for court nominees becomes his court nominee.
PONNURU: He believes very strongly in finding personal comfort level with the people that he wants to put in positions of power. And he has a great degree of confidence in his ability to judge people. And maybe that confidence is going to turn out to be merited, but it -- but this is a pretty high-stakes gamble.
GREENFIELD: You know, I -- I am going to try to get to the head of Bush's selection for Fannie Mae, which I think pays $7 million a year. Apparently, this is definitely the key to getting really good jobs.
COOPER: All right, Jeff, thanks very much.
Dinesh (sic), appreciate you being here as well. Nice to have you on the program.
PONNURU: Thanks.
COOPER: And, Justice Hecht, thank you very much.
HECHT: You bet.
COOPER: Coming up, a quiet Sunday afternoon cruise ended in tragedy. What exactly went wrong? All that ahead.
But, first, at about a quarter past the hour, time for the other news of the day, Erica Hill in Atlanta.
Ms. Hill?
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Mr. Cooper.
(LAUGHTER)
HILL: A violent tropical storm in Central America has triggered mudslides that killed more than 35 people. Three days of rains caused the rivers to burst their banks and forced thousands of people to evacuate their homes.
Meantime, Palestinian police storming Gaza's parliament building today to demand that more be done to crack down on militancy and street chaos. The protest came after a security force commander was shot in a street battle.
Vice President Dick Cheney tried to bolster the country's flailing support for the war in Iraq today, warning that returning Marines warned -- he warned returning Marines that the country could become a staging area for large-scale terrorist attacks on the United States if American troops withdraw too early.
And a new report suggests the problems Americans face because of excess weight will be more serious than previously thought. The National Heart Lung and Blood Institute have found that 90 percent of men and 70 percent of women will eventually become overweight. The problem is supposed to get worse with age.
The only bright spot in that, Anderson, is, you have got a bigger chance of it than I do.
COOPER: Do you know that overweight people have no heads on television? Have you always noticed that?
HILL: I have noticed that. It's an odd phenomenon.
COOPER: Thank you. Thank you.
I also called you Ms. Hill because it's NEWSNIGHT and I feel like I have got to step up.
HILL: I -- I -- I figured that is what it was.
COOPER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
HILL: So, thank you, Mr. Cooper.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Thanks. All right. Talk to you later.
Much more ahead on the program, starting with a horrible end to a day of sightseeing, of all things, an end that no one saw coming.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANE SILER, SURVIVOR: All of my friends around me, some of them not being able to swim, were fumbling about. Some of them were screaming. And those that could were trying to hang on to the side of the boat.
COOPER (voice-over): The boat capsized with no apparent warning; 20 people died. What made it sink? Who is to blame?
DR. BRYAN BERTUCCI, ST. BERNARD PARISH CORONER: I said, you can have the buses or not have the buses. She told me no. And that was the end of our discussion.
COOPER: The nursing homes and hospitals that ignored the orders to evacuate.
CHARLES FOTI, LOUISIANA ATTORNEY GENERAL: This is going to be a rather lengthy investigation.
COOPER: Will they pay for staying behind when Katrina was bearing down?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Countless. I couldn't imagine a number on it.
COOPER: He's talking about all the broken pipes that need to be fixed before New Orleans has clean water to drink, repairs that can't come soon enough.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, this is great news for everybody. (INAUDIBLE) come back.
COOPER: I'm back from the Gulf Coast, back in New York, and this is NEWSNIGHT.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: We have got some progress to report from New Orleans tonight, progress in drying out the city and cleaning up the water and progress in getting to the bottom of what most -- most -- most people believe is one of the most heartbreaking episodes in this story. What happened exactly to the elderly and the ill in hospitals and nursing homes around the city?
Tonight, we can report that 13 nursing homes and six hospitals are now under investigation.
CNN's Drew Griffin looks into it.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The spray paint marks the sorrow and hopelessness more than any damage you can see, 14 dead at Lafon Nursing Home. With one more body found at St. Rita's, the total here is 35, then this at Bethany Home on New Orleans' Esplanade Avenue, six more dead, along with a silent plea for the morgue to pick up the bodies.
What happened at all three of these nursing homes is now under investigation. The owners of St. Rita's have been charged with 34 counts of negligent homicide. And this man is looking into what happened at these and 11 more nursing homes, plus six hospitals.
FOTI: This is going to be a rather lengthy investigation.
GRIFFIN: What Louisiana Attorney General Charles Foti says he wants to find out is why so many nursing homes and even hospitals decided not to follow mandatory evacuation orders and why, perhaps, more than 100 senior citizens died.
The owners of St. Rita's, where those 35 elderly patients literally drowned lying in their beds or sitting in their wheelchairs, says through their attorney that the staff did all they could in a last-minute heroic effort to evacuate in the midst of the storm. The St. Bernard Parish's coroner says that was too late. This nursing home, he says, had the chance to get everyone out long before Katrina hit.
BERTUCCI: I said, you can have the buses or not have the buses. She told me no. And that was the end of our discussion.
GRIFFIN (on camera): So, the bottom line, Doctor, is the county, you, called the facility and offered to evacuate those people 2:00 Sunday afternoon?
BERTUCCI: That's correct. And there was a mandatory evacuation.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): St. Rita's is the only nursing home so far to face charges. The attorney representing its owners says his clients weren't notified of any mandatory evacuation and says Attorney General Foti filed his case before he knew all the facts.
(on camera): Did you move too fast on St. Rita before you knew the facts?
FOTI: We had the evidence.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Foti says he expects more charges at more nursing homes and hospitals if similar evidence shows better decisions could have saved lives. Hurricane Katrina tested the state's medical and nursing home disaster plans. And, for many, he says, those plans failed. After all the deaths, he says Louisiana owes answers to its most vulnerable citizens.
FOTI: We want to look at how do we repair our city, our state and potentially our nation to take care of these type of disasters that could occur in the future.
GRIFFIN: Foti says Hurricane Katrina's deadly lesson was quickly learned. When Hurricane Rita barreled towards the Gulf Coast, among the first moves, he says, by the governors of both Texas and Louisiana was to evacuate all nursing homes.
(on camera): The attorney general says, beyond prosecutions, he wants to come away with a plan of what needs to be done to evacuate the elderly, not just for the next storm, but even for manmade disasters like terror strikes.
Drew Griffin, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, just ahead on the program tonight, making the water safe to drink again in New Orleans, good news for a change, that.
This, on the other hand, is not. How could a quiet day on the lake end in 20 fatalities?
Around the country and the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: In Louisiana, officials say the search for bodies of people killed by Hurricane Katrina has ended; 964 have been recovered so far. But there is reason to believe there are many more bodies to be found. More than a month after the storm, there appears to be homes that still have not been searched. The question tonight is, why?
Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: (voice- over): In pulverized portions of New Orleans's Ninth Ward, where water flows, instead of traffic, most homes bear the signs that search teams have been in to look for the living and the dead, but not in one area that spans several blocks. Here, house after house after house is unmarked.
EDWARD MENDEL, SEARCH VOLUNTEER: From here back, I estimate 100 to 150 homes that are still unsearched. And I do expect we will probably find some bodies.
MESERVE (on camera): Why do you think that? MENDEL: You can smell them as we drive by.
MESERVE (voice-over): Federal officials say search teams came through every house and ran out of paint to mark them. But volunteer Ed Mendel believes they were not able to go where he can on what he calls swamp thing, a vehicle designed for hunting pigs and deer in the Everglades and modified for rescue work.
MENDEL: It will drive in six feet of water. After that, it starts floating like a boat.
MESERVE: Mendel is particularly concerned about the unmarked homes he passes with nice cars still parked in the driveway.
MENDEL: That's a pretty bad indicator that there may be a recovery involved there.
MESERVE: And then there are the places where houses used to be.
MENDEL: I know there's bodies under the debris piles in the sides of the road. You can -- you can tell from the byproducts that comes off of humans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay right there. I'm going to pull you up.
MESERVE: Mendel picks up Roz Kay and Adam Irvin, a brother and sister who want to take a look at their family home.
ADAM IRVIN, NEW ORLEANS EVACUEE: I don't think I will be doing any more smoking or barbecuing back here, not at this house.
MESERVE: But Roz Kay knows others lost more than property and possessions.
ROZ KAY, FORMER NINTH WARD RESIDENT: We have so many people who were superseniors that lived in these neighborhoods. And they didn't have children or anyone to rescue them all the way out.
MESERVE: If these homes have not been searched and these people found, Roz Kay perceives it as another slap at the Ninth Ward and the people who lived here.
KAY: This is a predominantly black neighborhood, OK? And it's always been neglected. And it's been a hard fight and an uphill fight always. So, I'm not surprised.
MESERVE: Not surprised, but horrified that, more than a month after Katrina rampaged and ravaged through, there may be grim discoveries still waiting to be made.
Jeanne Meserve, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Even a town like Waveland, Mississippi, there are still some 50 people who are missing. Some of them, their bodies may have already been found and not identified, but underneath that rubble, there is no telling what there is still.
Now to better news. Authorities expect to have clean drinking water running again within a week or so in the French Quarter and Central Business District in New Orleans, but first they're going to have to deal with a crack epidemic, crack in the pipes that is.
Here's CNN's Sean Callebs.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since 1988, the Magazine Po' Boy Shop has been a fixture in New Orleans' Garden District.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We evacuated for Rita, too.
CALLEBS: Owner Ray Movahed was among the first to return once Mayor Ray Nagin gave the word. And Movahed had brought plenty of water.
RAY MOVAHED, MAGAZINE PO' BOY SHOP: What do we use this for? Washing, you know, if you've making coffee, making any kind of gravy or you want to wash your food or lettuce or tomato.
CALLEBS: Tap water is off limited, polluted with sediment, toxins and bacteria. The health department is running checks, making sure restaurants are boiling water and cooking with bottled water.
It is a costly inconvenience for Movahed, who goes through about 60 of these jugs a day. But he's convinced people will flow back into New Orleans once clean water flows, too.
MOVAHED: It is great news for everybody. You know? Because everybody will come back.
CALLEBS: The city's water purification superintendent believes the safe drinking water could be restored a week and a half or so, far sooner than the city once predicted. That is everywhere but the badly damaged ninth ward and devastated areas on the east side of New Orleans where it could be months before people are allowed to return, if ever.
But before citizens get clean water, crews have to repair a lot of these. Ruptures in lines caused by Katrina.
(on camera) And how many breaks are in the city?
JASON GUHMAM, BOH BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION: Countless. Count -- I couldn't imagine a number on it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are several that come out here for the river.
CALLEBS (voice-over): Marvin Russell is the water guy in New Orleans. He says dirty water, water mixed with dirt and bacteria that causes E. Coli, is being flushed out rapidly. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because we feel with the assets we have dedicated, that we can get into all of those areas where we have currently have pressure. And identify the large leaks. Hopefully, within a week or two.
CALLEBS: He says the city is feeling great pressure to restore water quickly. They're pouring chlorine through the lines for an odor not pleasant but effective.
That's being done, again, to make the treatment, the cleaning, the disinfection of the system that's more rapid news.
Were that's welcomed news for the Magazine Po' Boy. The menu of favorites has paired down to these four simple items.
Movahed says pollution has for the time being put an end to his house specialties, shrimp and oyster po' boys.
In the month since Katrina, water has been the enemy. Movahed says the entire city ready for the tide to change.
Sean Callebs, CNN, New Orleans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, a lot to catch up. Mark Muriel joins us now. He's the former mayor of New Orleans and now the president of the National Urban League. Thanks very much for being with us.
MARC MORIAL, PRESIDENT, URBAN LEAGUE: Anderson, good being with you.
COOPER: First of all, the rebuilding. You were just there. Is it on track? What are the big problems?
MORIAL: It's a long, long road back, and the first challenge is, there's got to be a cleanup effort to get rid of the debris and the trash. There's got to be an effort to get the water system operational. Get the sewer system operational. Get the electric system operational. And also, to just make the place somewhat safe so that when people go back to inspect their homes, they're not going to be placed again in harm's way.
COOPER: You know, the thing I have yet to hear a politician standing up and saying, "This is what I individually did wrong."
I've heard a lot of them stand up and say, "What my mistake was, was believing the federal government." That's the mayor. "My mistake is trusting they'd be there in two days." You know?
FEMA will say, well, "Our mistake was not realizing that everyone else was dysfunctional.
MORIAL: When you see people pointing fingers at each other in such an aggressive, assertive and consistent fashion, you know that there's a lot of blame to go around, a lot of responsibility. So much went wrong, Anderson.
COOPER: But what they keep saying is, you know, there's a time and a place for blame. And this is not, you know, this is not the time to be pointing fingers. When is the time?
MORIAL: It's time. It's time for there to be an independent investigation. There's a time I went down in New Orleans and Baton Rouge. There's time for there to be an independent thorough fact finding.
COOPER: Can the mayor investigate himself? Can the governor investigate herself?
MORIAL: No, they can't. It's got to be independent. It should be made up of experts. It ought to be a complete investigation into preparedness, into response, into levees.
Hurt me in a deep fashion to see people at the dome and the convention center with without food and water for three days. Hurt me.
COOPER: It was a crime. And what happened there is just -- I mean, at the convention center in particular, it was just -- they were sending old people there and just left them there with no...
MORIAL: Let's have an independent investigation. I think that is the proper way to do it. That's what occurred after 9/11. That's what a democracy does. It tries to reassemble the facts. It tries to determine who did what, who didn't do what, because the important thing is that the lessons be learned so that this doesn't occur again.
COOPER: What about police? I mean, I spent a lot of time with New Orleans police. And they're a lot of hard working people that stayed on the jobs.
MORIAL: A lot of good officers.
COOPER: Yes, a lot good officers. And you go out with them at night, you know, and they're -- they're demoralized. They feel everyone has abandoned them, their leadership, you know. And the news is doing stories on corrupt cops and no doubt, you know, anyone should be investigated, but what is wrong with the New Orleans Police Department?
MORIAL: Richard Pennington and I, who was a chief that I selected, spent eight years completely turning the department around. We got it accredited. We reduced crime. We not only cleaned up corruption but gained a reputation for cleaning up corruption.
For the life of me, I don't know what happened. I don't understand it. It was a massive collapse. It seems like every system collapsed from the day Katrina hit afterwards.
But let's say this. Let's pat hard working firefighters, police officers, Coast Guardsmen and others on the back, those who stayed the course. Those who did their job. Let's not point with a broad brush on this.
COOPER: And, yet, can they reform? Can there be a real change?
MORIAL: You are almost faced with a necessity to rebuild brick by brick a brand new police department. Based on principles with those who are committed to a new formation. I mean, in 1994, when I took over, Richard Pennington and I, in fact, began the rebuilding of a department which by the time 2000, 2001 and 2002 came along, we had a much better department.
That's the challenge before us. It's a damage in New Orleans for a rebuilding. I think it's important that people have the right to return. That they choose whether they're going to return, that that not be some preordained decision by someone up on high.
COOPER: We're out of time. Love to talk to you again.
MORIAL: We'll come back.
COOPER: All right. Thanks so much. To talk about New Orleans.
Still to come on the program tonight, how did it happen? How could it? What sent 20 people on a tour boat to a watery death? The boat was raised today. That's it. Take a look into it.
Also, later, where would you least want to battle a fire?
This is NEWSNIGHT from New York and around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: So state officials have shut down the company that runs the tour boat that capsized in New York's Lake George this weekend. Just a few minutes ago, take a look, these pictures came in. The boat in question, it's being towed into the dock.
In the meantime, the licenses for a Shoreline Cruises have been suspended while an investigation takes place.
A lot of questions remain about exactly what happened. We know there were 47 elderly passengers aboard the Ethan Allen tour boat; 20 of them died. State regulations say the boat should have two crew, but local investigators said only the captain was on board. He survived.
CNN's Deborah Feyerick looks into more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Investigators hope the cruise boat they raised from the bottom of the lake will provide answers as to why it sank in 70 feet of water. Answers, also, important to survivors like 76-year-old Jean Siler.
After working with victims of Hurricane Katrina, she had decided to take a vacation. She's seen lots of tragedy. She was right in the middle of this one.
JEAN SILER, SURVIVOR: All of my friends around me, some of them not being able to swim, were fumbling about. Some of them were screaming. And those that could were trying to hang onto the side of the boat.
FEYERICK: In the moments before the tragedy, Siler was in the front of the small cruise boat, named the Ethan Allen. She was talking to a friend when the boat, very close to the shoreline steered into a wake.
SILER: I noticed the cabin floor was getting wet, and why, I don't know. But I stood up. And I don't know if I jumped out of the boat or if I was thrown from the boat when it tipped.
FEYERICK: Leon Koziul was swimming in the lake and waved to some of the seniors on board. He said there was nothing unusual about the water or the boat.
LEON KOZIUL, LAKE GEORGE VACATIONER: It was a large number of people, comfortably seated, seemingly in a very jovial, happy mood. Taking in the sights, and again, nothing unusual.
FEYERICK: Koziul has vacationed on Lake George for the past 30 years. He even wrote a fiction book about it. The narrow lake was very busy on Sunday, lots of boats, lots of waves.
(on camera) So it may have just been bad timing?
KOZIUL: Bad timing. I think a combination of rolled wakes hit at the right moment as he was making a turn in a very sheltered bay and probably wasn't anticipating it.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Investigators are looking into the possibility that waves from another cruise boat may have caused the Ethan Allen to capsize. A larger, faster vessel, the Mohican, run by a competing company, was also on the lake at the same time.
Bill Dow is president of the family-run business which owns the Mohican. He says that boat was two miles away.
BILL DOW, LAKE GEORGE STEAMBOAT CO.: There was none of our boats, big excursion boats caused any problem on this lake and they haven't, and we've been here since 1817. The Mohican has been on the lake for 98 years, since 1908, doing the same cruise at the same speed and there's never been any problems and it was not our fault. Period.
FEYERICK: As for Jean Siler, one of 27 survivors, she suffered broken bones. They will heal. The emotional wounds will take a lot longer.
SILER: I was not prepared for this at all. I was -- never thought I was going to lose friends and never had a chance to say good-bye to them.
FEYERICK: Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Lake George, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That poor woman.
Just ahead, the worst possible place for a fire, headlines, and a lot more. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Coming up, how the country's biggest police force battles terrorism at home and overseas. But first, about a quarter till the hour, time once again to check on headlines with Erica Hill in Atlanta -- Erica.
HILL: Anderson, a tanker truck and an SUV collided today on the Seven-Mile Bridge in the Florida Keys. That fatal crash ignited a blaze. It took firefighters two hours to get it under control. The driver of the SUV killed but the truck driver unaccounted for at this point.
The Alabama chief justice who was fired for refusing to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from a courthouse will run for governor next year. Ray Moore, who is a fundamentalist Christian, told supporters God is leading him to guide Alabama's policy.
And the actor and comedian Nipsey Russell has died of cancer. He was once known as the poet laureate of television for the short poems he recited and became a signature act in the '60s and '70s. He was a staple on variety and game shows, including "Laugh-In." He also played the Tin Man in 1978 movie "The Wiz." Nipsey Russell was 80 years old.
COOPER: Oh, man.
HILL: I know.
COOPER: You know what? He actually voted for me when I was a kid. I was on "To Tell the Truth," pretending to be the world's youngest bear trainer, Wally Naughton, and he voted for me.
HILL: Really? Another reason to love him.
COOPER: I know. All right, Erica, thanks very much. Very sad news.
Coming up, one part 007, one part Popeye Doyle. How the NYPD is taking on al Qaeda. A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: On this "Security Watch" tonight, perhaps the fastest growing anti-terrorism outfit in the country.
The CIA? The DIA? The NSA? Forget about it. Here's CNN's David Ensor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside the Empire State Building, a police SWAT team arrives without warning. Heavily armed officers move in to sweep the roof top observation deck.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: High visibility today, huh?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable.
ENSOR: High above the same building, an unmarked police helicopter surveys Manhattan, looking for anything suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How good are the objects?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very good. This is -- the camera consists of three lenses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bronx on the air.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eastbound on 42nd at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10-4.
ENSOR: Down on 42nd Street a police commander orders 75 squad cars on surprise patrols throughout the city. NYPD is on a hair trigger, because U.S. intelligence says New York is at the top of the terrorists' target list.
RAYMOND KELLY, NYPD COMMISSIONER: I think it also gives pause for thought someone planning an untoward act here.
ENSOR (on camera): Try another city.
KELLY: Well, don't try New York.
ENSOR (voice-over): And something no other police department has done. Commissioner Kelly has hired a top 35-year CIA veteran to set up New York's own CIA, complete with officers overseas.
KELLY: When is our guy going to (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He should be there about sometime during the first week or two of October.
ENSOR: Each day, Kelly gets his counterterrorism briefing from his intelligence chief, David Cohen, and his counterterrorism boss, Mike Sheehan.
The fact that the London bombers did their own reconnaissance is duly noted.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's striking how there was a completely dry rehearsal. So we're integrating this into our surveillance and counter-surveillance modules as a good case study. ENSOR: NYPD has detectives based in Britain, Israel, Singapore, Canada, France, the Dominican Republic and soon Jordan. When terrorists strike, as in London, where one of the bombers wore a New York Yankees hat, NYPD is on the scene to ask the New York question.
DAVID COHEN, NYPD DEPUTY COMMISSIONER FOR INTELLIGENCE: What was the meaning of the hat? Was it just coincidental? Did he grab a hat as he walked out of the house to commit suicide? Or was it something that he thought about? So, we're able to make sure that that issue gets addressed.
ENSOR (on c): Why can't New York rely on the CIA and the FBI to protect it?
COHEN: My business is New York City. CIA and the FBI, they have New York City but they have the rest of the country, as well.
KELLY: We can't wait for a federal report that comes six months or a year later. That's not to criticize them but the federal government doesn't have a subway system, for instance. We do here.
ENSOR (on camera): And based on what it heard about the July 7 London attacks, the NYPD tightened its security tactics in the subway that very same day.
KELLY: We were able to react quickly because we had that detective in London.
ENSOR (on camera): New York's intelligence officers overseas are not popular with some present and former federal officials who see them as poaching on the turf of the FBI and the CIA.
One former senior FBI official, who declined to be identified because his current employer deals with the NYPD, predicts that, quote, "At some point in the future one of the New York guys is going to get himself arrested or hurt."
(voice-over) At a low profile, unmarked facility outside Manhattan, NYPD intelligence and counterterrorism teams scan jihadist web sites and chat rooms and even Al Jazeera. The department has 460 certified linguists, including about 60 native Arabic speakers.
LT. BILL CHURCH, NYPD HARBOR UNIT: We're the water borne component of the NYPD's approach to counterterrorism.
ENSOR: Lieutenant Bill Church and his men watch over 146 miles of waterways, bridges, ferries, gasoline barges, tunnel air vents and the Statue of Liberty.
(on camera) In terms of symbolism, I can't imagine a more tempting target for terrorists.
CHURCH: I've heard it's on the top of the list.
ENSOR: The icon of American freedom in New York harbor is guarded from every angle. NYPD's intelligence and counterterrorism divisions have their critics. But many intelligence professionals say NYPD is a model: more nimble, better equipped and motivated. More likely than the federal government to stop the next attack against this city.
David Ensor, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And all of us New Yorkers are glad they're out there.
In a moment, her sister's murder changed her life. The case changed ours. Denis Brown and O.J. Simpson, then and now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As the outspoken sister of Nicole Brown Simpson, Denise Brown was one of the first to talk about the other side of the football hero O.J. Simpson. Brown's emotional testimony early in Simpson's trial was unforgettable.
DENISE BROWN, SISTER OF NICOLE BROWN SISTER: Picked her up and threw her out of the house. She had it up on her -- she ended up falling.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After the trial, Brown became an advocate against domestic violence. She currently runs the Nicole Brown Charitable Foundation which helps battered women and their children.
BROWN: In educating myself and then starting to travel, I learned about domestic violence. I learned what my sister was going through.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brown maintains a relationship with Nicole's children, Sidney and Justin, who live in Florida with their father. But she doesn't see or talk with O.J.
BROWN: I can't stand the ground he walks on. I believe he murdered my sister, and I will always think that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Brown still wears a silver cross that belonged to her sister.
BROWN: She's always missed. You know? Every single day. There's not a day that goes by I don't think about her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And she marks every anniversary of Nicole's death with a candlelight vigil.
BROWN: I just don't want another person to have to suffer something like we did, and I think that's what drives me. And I know Nicole's with me.
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