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CNN Live Today

Three Foreign Nationals Arrested in Fort Bragg Fraud; DeLay on the Offense; Supreme Court Debates Oregon's Death With Dignity Act

Aired October 05, 2005 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: We're going to take a closer look ahead at the battle over assisted suicides, a hot topic debated at the Supreme Court today. Ahead, two constitutional law experts join us to argue the merits of the case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Let's take a look at what's happening "Now in the News."

Tropical Storm Tammy is dumping plenty of rain along the Florida and Georgia coasts. Tammy quickly formed off of Florida's east coast today. It's producing heavy winds and rain, but forecasters say it's unlikely it will develop into a hurricane.

The United Nations avian flu coordinator says the U.S. must be prepared to face a possible flu pandemic. Dr. David Nabarro (ph), who was a guest of mine on CNN last hour, said pandemics run in cycles and the bird flu is the next likely contender. The bird flu has infected millions of chickens and other fowl in southeast Asia, and killed more than 60 people there.

The first privately built and piloted craft to reach space is getting a permanent spot at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum. Spaceship One will hang between Charles Lindbergh's Spirit of St. Louis and Chuck Yeager's Bell X-1.

And a nickel for your thoughts. The nickel is getting a major makeover. Its new five cent piece will feature Thomas Jefferson facing forward. It's the first time any U.S. coin has featured a forward-looking image. The new coin is called Jefferson 1800 and it will go into circulation early next year.

It's time now for the CNN "Security Watch." Three foreign nationals are under arrest, accused of illegally gaining employment at Ft. Bragg's Military School.

Our Barbara Starr joins us from the Pentagon with more on that. Barbara, hello.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hello to you, Daryn.

Well, indeed, the U.S. attorney in North Carolina now announcing the arrest of three men, two Indonesians and a man from Senegal, who were working at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina at the U.S. Army Special Operations Command as foreign language instructors for U.S. Army special operations troops. Now, apparently what happened is they showed, according to documents, false documentation to gain employment with a contractor who then sent them to Ft. Bragg to teach language to Army special ops forces.

The customs and immigration officials regularly conduct shall we say audits or sweeps of sensitive facilities around the United States to determine that everyone who's working there is in the United States legally. So this sort of thing has, indeed, happened before. But by all accounts, they have never found persons illegally in the United States working at such sensitive military sites.

Now, there is no indication that these three individuals had any connections to any illegal activity in the United States, but there certainly is concern, officials say, concern that they could be vulnerable once they're deported to being approached by terrorists, that they might have learned the identity of military special operations troops, the identity of certain layouts and facilities at Ft. Bragg. Simply the case that they may have information that terrorists would find useful. And that's why the United States immigration officials don't want to have these types of security breaches.

All of it still remains under investigation. All three men arrested and facing legal action here in the United States -- Daryn?

KAGAN: Barbara Starr, live at the Pentagon. Barbara, thank you.

Be sure to stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

On to politics. Tom DeLay going on the offense after being forced to step down from his position as House leader. DeLay is known as "The Hammer" for his tough tactics on Capitol Hill. He is blasting the Texas district attorney who brought a pair of indictments against him.

Congressional correspondent Joe Johns looks at what's happening as a showdown between two Texas politicians.

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JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: If anyone doubted that Tom DeLay is a take no prisoner's politician, listen to what he has to say about the man who is trying to lock him up. Travis County Prosecutor Ronnie Earle.

REP. TOM DELAY, (R) TEXAS: The all too predictable result of a vengeful investigation lead by a partisan fanatic. Ronnie Earle is running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

JOHNS: A remarkable public show of contempt triggered by Earle's indictment of DeLay on charges of money laundering and conspiracy for allegedly shifting corporate money into Texas State elections.

You keep getting in these dogfights, don't you?

RONNIE EARLE, TRAVIS COUNTY D. A.: Well it comes with the territory.

JOHNS: Earle's territory covers the state government in Austin. In 28 years he's prosecuted 15 elected officials for corruption, 12 of them democrats.

EARLE: It's been my experience in prosecuting wrong doers, that the more wrong they are, the louder they holler.

JOHNS: Those who know Earle say he is motivated not by partisan desire but by a burning zeal to get big money out of politics. A zeal, say many of his critics, that pushes him to prosecute whether the legal facts are on his side or not.

DELAY: It's just unbelievable. I mean, he's making the Keystone Cops look good.

JOHNS: Earle, a former Texas Legislator and judge, doesn't see himself as a Keystone Cop. In his mind he's more like Gary Cooper in the classic western, "High Noon."

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

GARY COOPER, ACTOR: I'm not trying to be a hero. If you think I like this you're crazy.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

EARLE: If it's just not one bully it'll be another bully. That was the lesson of the movie "High Noon." That's the way "War of the Worlds" works. If it ain't this bully it'll be the next bully and so we have to stop the first bully. And I think that, again, that is America's problem; that is America's issue.

JOHNS: Earle has also indicted two of DeLay's associates, John Colyandro and Jim Ellis. They worked for political action committees set up by DeLay and they're accused of helping to pull off the alleged money-laundering scheme. But DeLay is clearly the big prize. Two powerful personalities, two unyielding wills. In true Texas style, it looks like this one is headed for "High Noon."

Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: More information just into CNN about this explosion that took place at a Shiite mosque just south of Baghdad in the town of Hilla. Happened this evening, Iraq time, earlier today. New numbers -- this looks even more severe. The new numbers, 20 dead and at least 77 people wounded in that bombing. They at first were saying it's a car bomb. But now, they're saying it's an explosion that took place inside this Shiite mosque, and that part of the mosque was destroyed. Once again, killing 20 and wounding at least 77.

Now let's take a look at other stories making news coast to coast. In Las Vegas, police have arrested the son of convicted Oklahoma City bomber conspirator Terry Nichols. Twenty-three-year old Joshua Nichols is charged with two counts of attempted murder of a police officer. Police say two officers tried to stop the stolen vehicle. A scuffle followed, and Nichols dragged one policeman about 20 feet, and tried to eject another one who was partially inside the vehicle.

A landmark evolution trial continues in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. The case centers around a school board's decision to include references to intelligent design in its biology curriculum. A group of families filed suit, saying it promotes the Bible's view of creation.

And federal authorities arrest an alleged Mexican drug smuggling kingpin. Authorities say they captured Augustine Rodriguez (ph) trying to cross the border from Mexico into Arizona. He's reputed to be the leader of smuggling ring that smuggled $85 million worth of cocaine into the U.S.

Well, they're going to go down in music history as great humanitarians. But will the Nobel Prize Committee be singing their tune? Two musicians up for one prestigious prize. That's ahead.

Coming up next, deciding to die. If that's what you want, should the federal government be able to stop you? We'll debate that, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAGAN: Oregon's assisted suicide law is before the U.S. Supreme Court today. At issue, whether doctors who prescribe lethal doses of painkillers to terminally ill patients are in violation of federal narcotic statutes. In Washington to discuss this further, we have Robert Raben, a lobbyist for the group Compassion and Choices, and Jay Sekulow, chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice.

Gentlemen, thanks for being here with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thanks for having us.

KAGAN: Jay, I start with you. We go to Oregon. Voters there, the people have spoken not once, but twice. They say this want this law. So what happens to state's rights to honoring what voters say they want in their states?

JAY SEKULOW, AMERICAN CENTER FOR LAW AND JUSTICE: There's nothing wrong with state's rights, but states don't get to opt themselves out of federally statutory schemes when it comes to the controlling of federally controlled substances. These are narcotics that the federal government controls.

It was a very close vote. It did pass. But even assuming if even more people wanted it in Oregon than actually did, the fact is, the federal government has taken a comprehensive regulatory scheme here, and that's really what the focus of the Supreme Court case was. Did the federal government have the authority, and the federal government here, to do here? States don't get to opt out of something simply because they disagree with the federal government's interpretation of a statute or regulation.

But having said that, it's a closely divided case, and it may well be coming down to a case when Harriet Miers is on the court, this case could be reargued.

KAGAN: Well, it will be interesting who gets to decide, if it gets decided before Sandra Day O'Connor.

Robert, let me go ahead and bring you in here. What about the idea that this is an improper use of drugs, and that ultimately the federal government must have final authority about how drugs are used?

ROBERT RABEN, COMPASSION AND CHOICES: Thank you, Daryn. Unfortunately I couldn't hear with Mr. Sekulow was saying. There's something wrong with the feed. So it won't be much of a debate, but I can comment on your question.

I think everybody knows the Controlled Substance's Act was passed by Congress to prevent drug trafficking, the narcotics trafficking and kingpin that so many of us are worried about on the streets. Under no circumstances did Congress in 1977 say that they were going to start to practice medicine, and that they were going to go into millions and millions of doctor's rooms and patient's room and say, here's the dosage you need to take for A, B, C and D procedure.

I think it's very, very dangerous that first Attorney General Ashcroft, and now Gonzales, are using federal law to intervene in what are some of the most personal, intensely difficult, emotional decisions, how we're going to write the last chapters of our lives.

KAGAN: I apologize for the technical difficulty. I think we're still able to have a reasonable conversation here. So bear with me.

I want to go back to Jay here. Sandra Day O'Connor, because she is still sitting there, asked an interesting question. She said if you're going to say you can't use drugs for that, that a doctor can't use drugs to end someone's life, how can a doctor administer drugs to carry out the death penalty?

SEKULOW: Well, no that was an interesting set of questions, and there's a different statutory scheme in place. But one of the most interesting things that the other justices had to grapple with was that under Oregon's statutes for assisted suicide, the fact of the matter is -- and this is one of the ironies in this case -- while a physician can prescribe the medication, the narcotic, he cannot administer it. Why is it that he can't administer it under their law? And that is, this is a statutory scheme that is so confused, so conflicted, and that's the reason why you have federal statutes intervening here, really taking a priority.

But she asked, I think it was a good question. I think the answer, which was the answer the solicitor general gave, Paul Clement, was, it's a different set of regulations in place. And she asks a lot of questions, Justice O'Connor, and I've had a lot of cases in front of her. But I'll tell you this, at the end of the day, I suspect it's not going to be Justice O'Connor's vote counting here, because when Harriet Miers is confirmed as an associate justice on the Supreme Court, if that opinion hasn't been rendered, whether vote has taken place or not -- if the vote will have taken place -- if O'Connor's not sitting on the court, her vote doesn't count. I think you're going to see this case reargued. And it's a life-and-death case. And when you get those kind of cases, these is really earmarked for re-argument.

KAGAN: Yes, that's is interesting, the logistical situation. It would have to be re-argued if it is Harriet Miers, not Sandra Day O'Connor.

Robert, let's bring you back in here. Are you able to hear? Or are we still having a one-on-one conversation.

RABEN: No, it's the same. I deeply respect Mr. Sekulow. I hate I miss what he's saying.

KAGAN: He's had good points, as have you.

Let me ask you another thing that we heard today before the high court as this was argued, that this creates a really bad environment for the disabled.

RABEN: Yes, I have so much respect for what the disabled in our communities say. What they're concerned about -- and I completely agree with them -- is the special vulnerability they have, and sometimes the medicine, the profession of medicine in the government hasn't been their best friend. I completely agree that the disabled need to be protected 5,000 percent against abusive medicine.

The problem is, the Oregon law is the only state in the nation that sets up a transparent, understandable regime that protects people.

To point to the Oregon law as a problem is a little absurd. If you agree with the disabled folks that they have special vulnerabilities and need protection, which I do, then we ought to be out there in every state, making sure that the laws have safeguards to protect them. And here's my constitutional, or legal perspective on that.

KAGAN: OK, make it fast, because the clock's running.

RABEN: I believe that Americans have the right, competent to control the last days of their lives when they're terminally ill. That decision ought to be made with your God, with you and your doctor. I don't think Mr. Sekulow, the government or anybody else ought to be involved in that decision.

KAGAN: And we'll let that be the last word, even though in 1997 the high court said you do not have that constitutional right.

SEKULOW: Yes, there is no constitutional right to kill yourself. I'm sorry. No problem.

KAGAN: Jay, I've got to make that the last word.

SEKULOW: Thanks.

KAGAN: Gentlemen, sorry with the confusion with the technical...

SEKULOW: We handled it.

KAGAN: Both you are both intelligent and had a really reasonable conversation. Good points on both sides.

SEKULOW: Thank you. Bye-bye.

KAGAN: Jay Sekulow and Robert Raben, thank you gentlemen.

Ahead on CNN LIVE TODAY, their charity and goodwill could pay off in more ways than one.

Bono, Bob Geldof, both on the short list for the Nobel Peace Prize. What are the odds? We'll tell you, just ahead.

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(MUSIC)

KAGAN: And that, of course, is U2. Their video for the song "Vertigo." Lead singer Bono figures into this next story, as does rocker Bob Geldof, who, by the way, happy birthday, turns 51 today. Both men are being considered for the Nobel Peace Prize because of their tireless work against famine, poverty and AIDS.

CNN's Sibila Vargas has our report.

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SIBILA VARGAS, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bono has a ton of Grammy awards. Bob Geldof was knighted in 1986. And now, one or both men may soon receive what may be the most prestigious prize in the world, the Nobel Peace Prize.

NICKI GOSTIN, "NEWSWEEK": It's an incredible honor. It's still a big deal, the Nobel Prize.

VARGAS: International oddsmakers are giving the two musicians 7- to-1 odds to take home the prize this week. That's just below the 4- to-1 favorite, the former president of Finland. But they're still well above President Bush, who's considered a 1,001-to-1 shot.

As lead singer of U2, arguably the biggest rock band in the world right now, Bono is a major voice in music. And for years he's used that voice to lobby countless world leaders on issues ranging from AIDS research to poverty.

Bono told "Showbiz Tonight" that he's seen a lot of progress.

BONO, ENTERTAINER: African aid has doubled today. Ten thousand people, they're saying, who would have lost their lives to AIDS by 2010 will be on anti-bacterial vial growth (ph). Whether that's eight million, you know that was an extraordinary number.

VARGAS: Bono also told "Showbiz Tonight," he's trying to influence a generation.

BONO: Pop stars can't change the world. I mean, you're absolutely right. Or rock stars or hip-hop stars or film stars. But our audience will change the world.

BOB GELDOF, ENTERTAINER: Please, please, give us as much money as we know you have.

VARGAS: Bob Geldof first gained worldwide fame for organizing the Live Aid concert for famine relief 20 years ago. This summer he organized the worldwide Live 8 concerts to pressure politicians to forgive the debts of four African nations. Bono was a big part of that, too.

GOSTIN: If the Nobel Prize committee decides that what they're working on, third world debt, is an important issue, they're certainly the spokespeople of it and they're the most famous spokespeople for it. So it's a great way to shine a light on third world debt and to acknowledge all the hard work that they've done. And they have done a lot of hard work.

VARGAS: Both Bono and Geldof have been nominated for Nobel Peace Prizes before. Whether Nobel will recognize them this time around is anyone's guess. That's because recipients are chosen by a super secret five-member panel in Norway from a list of more than a hundred nominees from all over the world. The names on that list are a tightly guarded secret. But Nobel Prize experts are pretty sure Bono and Geldof's names are on it, either for this year's prize or maybe even next year's.

GOSTIN: Whether you like their music or not, they really have done a terrific job in highlighting third world debt and brought a topic that sort of isn't really very sexy or hasn't gotten as much press as it should. They've gotten it a lot of press and a lot of discussion about it purely because they're rock stars.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAGAN: The winner of the Nobel Peace Prize will be announced on Friday. The honor comes with a $1.3 million award.

We're back after this break.

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(STOCK MARKET UPDATE)

KAGAN: I'm Daryn Kagan. That's going to wrap up this hour of CNN LIVE TODAY. A lot more ahead on CNN's "LIVE FROM." Kyra Phillips joins you right now.

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