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Nancy Grace
Remains discovered in a shallow grave behind a barn about 70 miles east of Richmond, Virginia, could be missing Virginia commonwealth student 17-year-old Taylor Behl
Aired October 05, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, breaking news. Remains discovered in a shallow grave in Mathews County, Virginia, could be missing 17-year-old Taylor Behl, the Virginia Commonwealth University student last seen alive Labor Day evening.
And one of the three suspects in the Natalee Holloway case not only admits to sex with Natalee, and both the guys, all three of them, the night she disappeared off the tiny island of Aruba, but he seems to blame it all on the missing girl. The private eye that hunted down and questioned Deepak Kalpoe with us live.
And no more story time. A registered sex offender strikes again in a Des Moines library, just five months out of jail for rape. That`s right, a public library for children.
Good evening everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.
A registered sex offender just out of jail reportedly kidnaps and undresses a 2-year-old little girl at the Des Moines public library! The child`s babysitter at a computer when the toddler went missing. And tonight, Deepak Kalpoe, one of the three chief suspects in the Natalee Holloway disappearance, admits to sex with Natalee the very night she vanished into thin air and goes on to attack the missing girl`s reputation.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
DEEPAK KALPOE, SUSPECT IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY DISAPPEARANCE: To tell you quite frankly, dressed like a slut, talked like one, would go in a car with three strange guys, and her mother claiming her to be the goody two-shoes - - enough of the BS already!
(END AUDIO CLIP)
But first tonight, breaking news. Remains discovered in a shallow grave behind a barn about 70 miles east of Richmond, Virginia, could be missing Virginia commonwealth student 17-year-old Taylor Behl. Behl vanished just 10 days into her freshman year at VCU.
I want to go straight out to Jim Moret. He is the chief correspondent with "Inside Edition." Jim, what can you tell us?
JIM MORET, "INSIDE INVESTIGATOR": Well, all I can tell you is that at this point, authorities are not yet determining or not yet saying whose remains they are, other than this was a shallow grave. They are what is being described as fresh human remains. The remains were found behind a barn on an isolated piece of property.
Investigators in the Taylor Behl case were led to this property through their investigation. This was identified as one of the places of interest in their investigation. And apparently, a former girlfriend of one of the men that police is talking to identified something in a photograph that led police to this location.
That`s all the information that`s being reported at this point, some of that information coming from "The Richmond Times-Dispatch." But again, authorities are not identifying those remains at this point. But still, very disturbing information.
GRACE: Here`s what police had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was not a tip. It was based on investigative work, based on the review of statements, based on the review of photographs and locating various areas which she may have frequented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight back to chief correspondent of "Inside Edition" Jim Moret. Jim, if I understood you correctly, you said that the ex-girlfriend of one of the men police are questioning led them to this barn 70 miles from Richmond, correct?
MORET: That`s what`s being reported by the Richmond paper. And that`s all the information we have at this point, as well.
GRACE: Well, it seems to me -- let me go to David Hicks. He is the commonwealth attorney for the city of Richmond. David, thank you for being with us.
DAVID HICKS, COMMONWEALTH ATTY., CITY OF RICHMOND: Glad to do it (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: Thank you, sir -- that this points, in my mind, straight to Ben Fawley, from what I am hearing. Has anybody else been taken into custody tonight?
HICKS: No. No one else has been taken into custody. And pretty much -- you know, obviously, to protect the integrity of the investigation, and hopefully, if it turns out the way we think it might, protect the integrity of any future prosecution, you know, we`re not able to really go too much deeper...
GRACE: OK.
HICKS: ... into the detail.
GRACE: Mr. Hicks, I respect that. I would not want you to jeopardize this case in any way.
In fact, let me go straight to Daniel Horowitz. Daniel Horowitz, we know that this that 38-year-old photographer -- everybody, we`re showing you a shot, an aerial shot of the barn where the remains have been found just a few hours ago. I`ve been on the phone with Taylor`s mother tonight, and the whole family distraught beyond words.
Daniel Horowitz, we know Fawley, the amateur photographer that had dated 17-year-old Taylor Behl, is behind bars on child pornography. Now, don`t you know, Daniel Horowitz, if another man`s ex-girlfriend had led police to this barn, he would be under interrogation right now. He would at least be named a person of interest. Right or wrong?
DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, Nancy, totally right. This guy is the prime suspect. And just the fact that a 38-year-old man would have a relationship with a young woman in the -- just at the start of her life shows that there`s something wrong with him.
GRACE: Yes. Yes. There`s something wrong with him, and police reportedly find child pornography. Also, I think a very important part of this case will be the location. Think about it.
Think about it, Joe Lawless. An ex-girlfriend identifies, we have been told, according to "The Richmond Times-Dispatch" -- an ex-girlfriend identifies the background behind Taylor Behl in these photos. So it says to me that this guy has taken another girl to this location to have her photographs taken. She sees the photo and said, Whoa, whoa, I`ve been there. This is 70 miles east. And they go there and they find these remains.
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It doesn`t look good for "Skulz" Fawley. There`s no question about that. But Nancy, you got to remember, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned. I still don`t hear evidence that indicates he killed her, and that`s going to be the problem.
GRACE: OK...
LAWLESS: You`ve got to tie him to the actual killing.
GRACE: Maybe you are a better trial lawyer than me, Joe.
LAWLESS: I doubt that.
GRACE: But I don`t quite understand how a woman scorned fits into the remains of a 17-year-old girl. Where does that fit in, a jealous woman? Maybe I missed something.
LAWLESS: It doesn`t look good. It certainly puts him at a place that they were all familiar with. That doesn`t mean that people within his same circle of friends -- the skateboarder, these other people -- weren`t also familiar with that location.
GRACE: Well, who`s the woman scorned? Who`s the woman scorned...
(CROSSTALK)
LAWLESS: Well, we don`t know that. We don`t know if it`s Fawley`s girlfriend or one of the girlfriends of the skateboarders, do we?
GRACE: OK, woman scorned. They were male skateboarders, so it`s not one of them. But you know what? I think I see where you are headed.
Let me quickly go back to commonwealth attorney for the city of Richmond David Hicks.
Tonight, everybody, stressing news. We`ve been helping in the search to find Taylor Behl for some time now. Tonight, remains found about 80 miles from Richmond may be those of Taylor.
What can you tell us, Mr. Hicks, about the condition of the body?
HICKS: Unfortunately, nothing. We are still obviously examining the scene. And as that information becomes available, you know, we`re going to have to act on it.
GRACE: Is it a human body?
HICKS: It is a human body.
GRACE: Is it a female body?
HICKS: That I cannot comment on.
GRACE: Is it skeletal? Is there any flesh on the body?
HICKS: It is a fresh body.
GRACE: Is it clothed?
HICKS: I can`t comment on that, either.
GRACE: I understand. Everybody, you don`t want to get your case moved because you commented on the evidence on television. So I mean, I...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: Go ahead, sir.
HICKS: Well, not even necessarily that. But interesting enough, what we have to realize is that00 for the sake of discussion, let us assume this does turn out to be the young lady, Ms. Behl. We still for prosecutorial reasons would have to then determine the manner of death. And in Virginia, under Virginia law, the presumption is that the proper place for a prosecution would be where the body was discovered, unless you could prove that, in fact, the crime, the murder, if, in fact, it was a murder, happened somewhere else.
So just the discovery of this body, if, in fact, it turns out to be Ms. Behl, still just leads us to a host of other questions all of which have incredible legal significance.
GRACE: You`re absolutely right, David. And as is true in many, many jurisdictions, a murder case can be tried either where the body is discovered or where the murder took place, if that can be proven.
HICKS: Exactly.
GRACE: David, I recall a case where all the state had was a glass eyeball, so we had no idea where the murder went down. Ultimately, because of a statement of a co-defendant, we figured that out. But you`re dead on, David Hicks.
Let me go to Dr. Kathy Reichs. She is a forensic a anthropologist. Doctor, thank you for being with us tonight.
KATHY REICHS, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Thank you.
GRACE: You know, we lawyers have been trained not to look past the evidence. It`s hard to imagine -- Elizabeth, if you can show me Taylor`s picture -- that this could be the girl buried behind that barn. I want to focus right now on evidence, strictly, evidence that may be introduced at trial some day. How long, Kathy, will it take for them to identify this body?
REICHS: Well, it depends entirely on what condition the body`s in. I would assume, at this point, since this young lady`s been missing a full month, that dental records are already in the possession of the authorities. So one of the first things they`re going to go to would be those dental records. I would guess that if this is someone that`s been in the ground in a shallow grave for a month that they are not going to be able to do a visual identification.
Should there be no dental records, then they might be able to go to fingerprints, which is going to take a little bit longer, although you could recover them from a decomposed body.
There`s a gradient between a fresh body and a skeletal body. And on one end of that, where you have a fresh body, you have organs, you have tissues, you have body fluids, the pathologist can do a full autopsy. On the other end of that gradient is the anthropologist, if you`ve got a body that`s closer to just bony structure. So depending on what you`ve in that gradient, it could take quite a while or it could be a very quick identification.
GRACE: What kind of clues do you think the shallow grave itself would reveal, Doctor?
REICHS: Well, I would hope they`re going to take their time in processing that scene. I would hope they`re going to have an anthropologist on scene. There`s going to be more information in the grave than just the set of remains themselves. There may possibly be impressions -- footprint impressions. I`ve seen graves that retained the impressions of the shovel that was used to dig it or the tread from the footprint of the person that was doing the digging.
There`s going to be insect evidence. I don`t know the depth of the grave. If you`ve got less than two feet, you`re going to have insect activity that`s going to be useful for reconstructing the time that`s elapsed since the death took place. There may be hair and fibers. There may be different kinds of trace evidence that`s only going to be found if they do thorough screening of the dirt. So all of that could take some time.
GRACE: You know, it`s interesting that you brought that up, Doctor. So much of what turns up at trial will depend on the process that is occurring as we speak.
Everyone, in the past few hours, the remains of a body have been found about 70 miles away from Richmond. We fear tonight those remains could be 17-year-old Taylor Behl.
Joining me now, Taylor Behl`s very dear friend, Mike Turner. Mike, are you fearful these remains are Taylor?
MIKE TURNER, FRIEND OF TAYLOR BEHL`S: Well, today, I got home from work. And I had planned on coming down here. And I got a call about this, and right away, I knew right off the bat that this -- I feel that it`s her. And it`s very scary to think that, you know, someone so sweet and nice could have this happen to her.
GRACE: Mike, you know, photos of Taylor taken by amateur photographer 38 years of age, Ben Fawley, have been posted reportedly on various Web sites. Do you know if one of the locations where she took these photos was near this barn?
TURNER: I honestly -- I have no idea.
GRACE: I mean, look at this, everybody. This is a shot of Taylor. Is this, Elizabeth, one of the shots taken by Fawley? We`re not sure. We think possibly. We see a wooded background. And Liz, if you could show me the aerial again of where the remains were discovered?
The wooded area just behind this barn, I`m wondering if it didn`t pop up in some of these photos. Repeat, an ex-girlfriend of one of the men involved in the case identified this location, leading police to it.
Mike Turner, how long have you known Taylor?
TURNER: I`ve known her for this past year, and it seems like I`ve known her for a lot longer because the minute you meet her, you feel like you`ve known her for a while. She was just a very enthusiastic, outgoing, genuine person. And she was -- this did not deserve to happen to her.
GRACE: Did she ever confide to you about any fling or romantic relationship with this 38-year-old photographer?
TURNER: No, she never, ever said anything about him to me. She had talked to her best friend about it, and I had heard about it before, but you know, nothing significant.
GRACE: You know, to Lauren Howard, psychotherapist, I find it interesting, Lauren. We`re on the outside, looking in. Of course, with us tonight, the city attorney for Richmond, David Hicks, but he does not want to comment on the facts of the case, understandably.
Lauren Howard, I find it interesting that an ex-girlfriend of one of these guys has led police to this location, not one of the men themselves, certainly not Benjamin Fawley, from what we know tonight.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Nancy, assume for a minute that this guy is not -- doesn`t come off or appear as this -- the horrendous ogre that we now are sort of led to believe he is. Otherwise, Taylor wouldn`t have engaged with him in any way, in any case. So this ex-girlfriend -- let`s say it`s Fawley`s ex-girlfriend -- might have been as horrified and shocked by what seems to have transpired as we all are, and at that point, of course, wants to be part of the solution. I mean, there but for the grace of God goes she, ostensibly.
GRACE: Yes, you`re right, Lauren. My point is that for all this month, where the mom and the dad have been on our show practically every night, begging for help, Fawley`s been -- and the others, have been twiddling their thumbs. Whoever the perp is (INAUDIBLE) the parents were twisting in the wind. And it took this ex-girlfriend of one of the men involved in the case to come forward and lead police to this shallow grave.
HOWARD: This whole thing might have been as shocking to anyone who knew him as it is to us. That`s sort of my point.
GRACE: Yes, I understand. With me, psychotherapist Dr. Lauren Howard.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." A Lincoln, Nebraska, mom fends off a man accused of fondling her 15-year-old daughter while she was sleeping. Police say the girl`s mom walked in to discover 52-year-old Lionel Femius (ph) over his daughter`s bed, touching the child. The mom, quick thinker that she was, grabbed a sword hanging over the girl`s bed and took on the perp, who got a swat when he tried to grab the sword. Perp versus mom, mom is the winner, and he is behind bars.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JANET PELASARA, MISSING GIRL`S MOTHER: I am the luckiest girl in the world and -- well, almost. As soon as I get my baby back, I will be the luckiest girl in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. As you may know by now, remains found about 70 miles away from Richmond, Virginia, believed to be that of 17-year-old Taylor Behl, the missing Virginia Commonwealth student last seen the evening of Labor Day.
I want to go straight back out to David Hicks, commonwealth attorney for the city of Richmond. David, I understand a grand jury has convened. For what?
HICKS: We convened a grand jury today...
GRACE: I think I have David Hicks with me.
HICKS: Yes.
GRACE: OK.
HICKS: All right. We convened a grand jury today to help the police in the gathering of information to investigate this matter. While that grand jury was hearing evidence today, we got the break that led us to the discovery of the shallow grave at Mathews County. So those two prongs of the investigation were going on simultaneously. And obviously, the police investigation prong that led us to the shallow grave, hopefully, was one that paid some dividends.
GRACE: Here`s what police had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was not a tip. It was based on investigative work, based on the review of statements, based on the review of photographs and locating various areas which she may have frequented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Back to David Hicks. David, as we all know, grand juries can have two purposes, investigational and charging. Are you telling me this grand jury is investigating the death of Taylor Behl, or are they set to charge someone, to formally indict someone?
HICKS: This right now is an investigatory grand jury. Right now, that purpose is for investigation purposes.
GRACE: I want to go straight back to Jim Moret. Grand juries used for investigative purposes to get documents, bring in witnesses. I understand -- and Jim, correct me if I`m wrong -- that the skateboarders that had been with her that evening, that were supposed to be with her that evening, have come to grand jury or are set to?
MORET: Well, they`re not talking about who`s been brought in so far for questioning. But remember, there was one person who was taken into custody, and that`s a skateboarder who was arrested on drug charges. That was after a police dog which found -- which was investigating Taylor`s car that was discovered, led them to an apartment nearby. That was a friend of hers, a skateboarder, and he was arrested separately. And we are also told that he failed a polygraph with regards to whether he knew Taylor at all.
GRACE: My question, do you know if they`re going to grand jury?
MORET: Don`t know.
GRACE: Back to David Hicks. Mr. Hicks, it is photographer, Ben Fawley, on the witness list? Will he be summoned to grand jury to testify?
HICKS: I can`t comment on any of the witnesses that either have testified before the grand jury or we plan to call.
GRACE: Of course, Daniel Horowitz, it would be highly unusual for a target of an investigation, since there`s a 5th Amendment right to remain silent, to be brought to a grand jury. What was does this suggest to you?
HOROWITZ: Well, Nancy, I was just smiling when you asked Mr. Hicks that question. But you were making a very good point. This man will not be brought to the grand jury. He is a identified suspect. Even if he was just close, they wouldn`t call him because they wouldn`t hurt his 5th Amendment rights. You got it, Nancy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PELASARA: She left her room, her dorm room, at 10:00 o`clock-ish and told her roommates she`d be back in a couple hours, and took her car keys and her student ID. And that`s it. That`s where the story`s ended.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Seventeen-year-old Taylor Behl has been missing since Labor Day, last seen that evening when she said she was going skateboarding, a carefree girl in her first few weeks of freshman year at Virginia Commonwealth University. We have been trying desperately to help in the search for Taylor Behl. Breaking news tonight, human remains found about 70 miles from Richmond.
To Mike Turner, Taylor Behl`s friend. When you learned this news today, you say, instinctively, you felt this is Taylor. Why?
TURNER: I mean, just the fact that this is not like Taylor at all. She would not leave her friends like this and not tell them. And it was obvious and pretty clear that there was foul play involved. And you know, I`m not afraid to comment, unlike these gentlemen over here, that this is definitely her. And you know, it`s obvious, the evidence, based on the pictures, points to Ben Fawley, but...
GRACE: But what about the pictures? Are you agreeing with me about the background, the wooded background?
TURNER: I think it`s totally bizarre. And I agree that -- you know, the pictures themselves obviously make Ben Fawley a suspect, and I think this investigation is going to show that he is the person who`s committed this crime.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hello there. I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."
A controversial case before the Supreme Court could give us a preview of how the new court could lean. The court is hearing arguments on Oregon`s assisted suicide law. It allows doctors to prescribe drugs to help terminally ill patients die. The federal government wants the law repealed.
More violence in Iraq, as a suicide bombing at a Shia mosque south of Baghdad kills 25 people. More than 80 others were wounded. It happened as worshippers gathered for a funeral service as they marked the holy month of Ramadan.
Well, I guess you can call it a lucky break of massive proportions. A 57-year-old retired Hurricane Katrina evacuee is $1.6 million richer tonight after winning a Louisiana slot machine jack pot. Jacquelyn Sherman was left homeless by the hurricane and had been staying with family. She says she`ll use the money to find a new place to live.
Well, that`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NADIRA RAMIREZ, KALPOE BROTHERS` MOM: We said, "No, no, no, Mama. Don`t do it. Don`t do it. Don`t cry. We didn`t do anything." I ask him, "Satish, are you sure you guys didn`t do anything?" "No, Mama. We give that girl (INAUDIBLE) a lift." They don`t even know Natalee. They said she didn`t even introduce herself to them that day or nothing. They didn`t even talk a word with her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Ruh-oh! Tonight, we have her son, Deepak Kalpoe, on tape admitting to sex with Natalee Holloway the night she went missing. Not just that, all three of these young men having sex with an 18-year-old girl that reportedly was going in and out of consciousness, you know, kind of like when you`re on GHB, gamma-hydroxybutyrate, the date-rape drug?
You know, in a lot of jurisdictions, that type of consensual sex is deemed rape, if, in fact, those are the facts surrounding this case?
And back to Taylor Behl. I want to remind you, the 38-year-old photographer we`re discussing, behind bars on child porn -- yes, there he is. It`s a before and after.
Thank you, Elizabeth. I needed to see that again -- is not an official suspect. He has not been charged. He`s behind bars on other charges, child pornography.
The grand jury is hard at work. We`ll let them do the work of formally charging Mr. Fawley, if that ever does take place. He is, repeat, not a formal suspect.
Now, let`s go to Jamie Skeeters. Jamie Skeeters is with us tonight. He`s a private detective. He actually hunted down and interviewed Deepak Kalpoe.
Were you surprised he spoke to you, Mr. Skeeters?
JAMIE SKEETERS, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Yes, I was. Very much so.
GRACE: How`d you get him to talk? You did a lot more than police could do.
SKEETERS: Well, I`m a 38-year veteran of law enforcement and worked the streets for most of that time. And normally, you can talk to people pretty good.
GRACE: Where were you an officer?
SKEETERS: I was a police commander, retired from the Oxnard Police Department, in Ventura County, California. Then I became chief of police for the Ventura County Community College District for a short period of time.
GRACE: Well, let`s just say Jamie Skeeters has been around the block a couple of times. Take a listen to what Skeeters got out of Kalpoe that the Aruban authorities couldn`t quite seem to grasp.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEEPAK KALPOE, SUSPECT IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE: To tell you quite frankly, dressed like a slut, talked like one, would go in a car with three strange guys, and her mother claiming her to be this goody-two shoes. Enough with the B.S. already.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To psychotherapist Dr. Lauren Howard, what does it say to you when a young man lashes out like this at a girl that could be, very likely be dead? She`s -- as he said, she`s the slut? Let`s just put it out there, Lauren. That`s what he said about a girl that could be dead right now.
LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, certainly, it doesn`t speak to him being a really nice guy. However, the point is, what he`s trying to accomplish here -- these guys have lied. They`ve admitted that they`ve lied. All three of them have lied. Everybody`s lying.
So now why not turn her into the victim? I mean, we`ve seen this before, Nancy. She`s the bad girl. She got what was coming to her. How dare -- who was she to get into a car with three strange guys?
So, you know, by turning the camera on her, and picking on her, and name calling her, all of a sudden we`re not calling him a big liar. I don`t think so. It`s bad judgment, bad character.
GRACE: And he`s not only lashing out at Natalee Holloway, but at her mother as well.
Elizabeth, roll the tape, please.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKEETERS: If it was an accident, I can help all of you. And if you guys were partying, even if someone had given her a date drug, I`m sure she had sex with all of you.
KALPOE: She did. You`d be surprised how simple it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Well, that`s certainly something you want to brag about, Jamie Skeeters. You`d be surprised how simple it was for all three of us to have sex with Natalee Holloway. You know, it makes my stomach turn over.
Aruba, I hope you`re listening.
SKEETERS: Yes, I agree with you. They even said how easy it was.
GRACE: When you were talking to him, what was running through your mind when he would come out with this?
SKEETERS: Well, my personal feelings were, I`d like to bury him about six feet under. But my mission was to find Natalee.
Crooks aren`t the smartest people in the world. And I was just letting him continue what he was talking and let him hang himself.
GRACE: Wise strategy. Take a listen to this, Deepak Kalpoe.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKEETERS: Sometimes, your closest friends, if they`re worried, and this thing is that big, they`ll burn you.
KALPOE: I don`t have any close friends anymore. They`re all gone.
SKEETERS: Really, because of this?
KALPOE: Everything is empty. If I knew where the body is, I would tell them a long time ago, let them start the trial, and get this over with. I don`t care.
The person that saw something in the morning hours...
SKEETERS: That`s the gardener. The gardener is the one that definitely saw you guys at 3:00 when statements were made. This guy remembers exactly the time it was because he couldn`t sleep that night. He identified every one of you in the line up except for one of you. I don`t know which one, you or your brother.
But he didn`t. And he says because the brother was lying in the backseat, and that`s going to kill you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I want you to hear the uninterrupted sound we have of Deepak Kalpoe. Now, he wants us to believe that all three of these men had consensual sex with the girl and then somebody else came along and kidnapped and killed her. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKEETERS: If you did it, don`t take a poly from me or anyone else, because you won`t pass. If you did not do it, you`re foolish. And the question I`ll ask you is if you intentionally killed her?
KALPOE: No.
SKEETERS: If it was an accident, I can help all of you. And if you guys were partying, even if someone had given her a date drug, I`m sure she had sex with all of you.
KALPOE: She did. You`d be surprised how simple it was.
SKEETERS: Let me ask you this. That for 25 bucks, you can pay a bartender to slip your date a date rape drug in her drink. Does that happen?
KALPOE: I never drugged someone.
SKEETERS: No, I`m not saying you. I mean, have you heard that happen?
KALPOE: I haven`t heard the bartender story. I know there`s a drug called ecstasy. I heard that they slip that into drinks. To tell you quite frankly, dressed like a slut, talked like one, would go in a car with three strange guys, and her mother claiming her to be this goody-two shoes. Enough with the B.S. already.
The person that saw something in the morning hours...
SKEETERS: That`s the gardener. The gardener is the one that definitely saw you guys at 3:00 when statements were made. This guy remembers exactly the time it was because he couldn`t sleep that night. He identified every one of you in the line up except for one of you. I don`t know which one, you or your brother.
But he didn`t. And he says because the brother was lying in the backseat, and that`s going to kill you.
Sometimes, your closest friends, if they`re worried, and this thing is that big, they`ll burn you.
KALPOE: I don`t have any close friends anymore. They`re all gone.
SKEETERS: Really, because of this?
KALPOE: Everything is empty. If I knew where the body is, I would tell them a long time ago, let them start the trial, and get this over with. I don`t care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To private eye Jamie Skeeters, who actually tracked down and interviewed Deepak Kalpoe, why is it that you managed to get all of this out of him and Aruban police did not?
SKEETERS: Well, to make a long story short, I went over there to perform a polygraph examination. I`m the president for the state of California polygraph.
We had heard that another gentleman over there, a private eye, had used a voice-stress polygraph. There is no such animal.
When I heard that -- and I heard that this man bragged that this one guy passed the polygraph -- I went over there to perform a polygraph on the same individual. This individual failed the polygraph after he had told the police and everyone else that he saw the judge, the prosecutor with the judge, Joran, Satish, and Deepak, and two other individuals burying Natalee in this dump.
And, Nancy, this dump has been there for 100 years. Everything on that island, toxic waste to personal hygiene, goes in that dump. They searched it. Everybody got sick. Dogs got sick.
When I finished with him on the polygraph, he admitted that he was lying and that he did not see what he had reported. Being this true -- a polygraph, we keep high standards with the polygraph, no matter where the truth or deception comes out.
I went to Deepak and told him that I had evidence that an individual was lying for the reward to put not only Deepak, his brother, the judge, and his son, and the prosecutor in jail for burying Natalee`s body. I told him that I would show him the polygraph and that, if he didn`t believe me, he could see for himself, that I would give this to Deepak, his attorney and the prosecution.
He came up to my room at a hotel, witnessed this, and saw that I was being truthful. And then he trusted me.
GRACE: You know, it`s amazing to me what you got out of him. And Jamie Skeeters, what do you -- how do you think this statement impacts the case?
SKEETERS: Well, the statement, I think, is the one extremely important evidence. Now, that`s why I`ve stayed out of the media for so long, that I`m from the old school. I believe that you keep integrity and credibility with the evidence.
It`s been one month. Dr. Phil indicated it`s time. We promised the Aruban people that we would give the evidence to them.
Well, we wanted to do it through folks like you. I love the American media. You guys are fantastic. I couldn`t have done it without you. So it`s a team effort.
At this point, this evidence blows Deepak`s alibi out that he didn`t have sex with Natalee, or Joran, or his brother. And we also have a tape, as you probably know, where the mother blows their alibi on the time, as well, which these two things put together -- my partners are Harold Koch (ph) and Johnny Weeks (ph) from Georgia, they -- we did an interview with the mother who just blew his alibi out.
And this is where -- these two pieces of evidence, I think, if they don`t lose it, if they don`t throw it away, going through you, this show here, they can`t hide it now.
GRACE: Jamie Skeeters, private detective, you`ve done what an entire Aruban police force couldn`t do. Now, will Aruba do anything about it? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway went missing on her high school senior trip to Aruba. Finally, a breakthrough in the case. Deepak Kalpoe states to a private eye, not the police -- in his defense, the interview was edited, and that`s it.
I don`t have a way to take legal action against him. The only thing I can be is upset with him.
So it`s everybody`s fault but his. He had absolutely nothing to do with it. I just wanted you to see Deepak Kalpoe`s response.
I want to quickly go to our remaining story tonight, an incredible story out of Des Moines, Iowa. A sex offender, just a few months from behind bars, kidnaps a 2-year-old little girl at the public library, barricades -- goes into the men`s restroom with the little girl. Suddenly, she`s discovered missing, quick thinking on behalf of the library staff and the babysitter.
I want to go straight out to Geoff Greenwood, reporter with KCCI-TV.
Geoff, what happened?
GEOFF GREENWOOD, KCCI REPORTER: Well, Nancy, if this can happen at the library in Des Moines, Iowa, this can help anywhere. It was about 11:00 o`clock yesterday morning...
GRACE: Tell it. Tell it. Tell it!
GREENWOOD: And there was a babysitter who was on the Internet, the public terminal at the library. And she had a 20-month-old girl with her. She was watching this girl. Suddenly, she notices that that girl is missing, and she asks a library staff member to help her find the little girl.
Maybe the search wasn`t much more than 20 feet when they come up to the men`s bathroom. They see a figure inside the bathroom, but the door is locked, and they hear a little girl screaming.
So the librarian calls for help. She grabs a maintenance man, who goes and gets a screw driver, to help with the -- they got some help with another librarian. And that maintenance man was able to pry open the door.
The staff members got that little girl out of the bathroom, and he tried to get out of the bathroom. They kept that door closed. They called police. And they kept him confined in the bathroom until the police got there.
GRACE: You know, we`re showing shots right now -- I don`t know if you can see it, Geoff -- of the library. It looks like the library in my little hometown of Macon. It`s just beautiful, all -- you know how you go in a library, it`s all nice, and quiet, and calm? Everybody`s using their inside voice. It smells like book pages. You would never think.
What`s the rap sheet on this guy, Geoff?
GREENWOOD: Well, he does have a prior sexual offense conviction. In fact, he was on the sexual offender registry in Texas. I found it yesterday on the Internet.
He was convicted of raping a 31-year-old woman at her home. He apparently asked her to use the phone, went inside of the house and, with a knife, at knifepoint, he raped her, that according to a prosecutor we spoke with at the district attorney`s office down there.
That was a few years ago. He pleaded guilty to the charge. He was sentenced to three years in prison. He didn`t do quite three years in prison, but he did all of his time. He wasn`t paroled. He was just discharged.
Within about a month or so, we believe he came up here to the Des Moines area. He registered here as a sex offender. He`s been here for several months since then. He`s had some nickel dime charges since then, theft, OWI, and he also had a public urination charge. And then this happened yesterday.
GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear that last charge. What?
GREENWOOD: Public urination.
GRACE: Oh, you know what? That`s just a nice way of saying exposing yourself in public, OK?
With me, Geoff Greenwood, reporter with KCCI-TV.
Very quickly to Sergeant Todd Dykstra. He`s a PIO with the Des Moines Police Department.
You know, sir, when I think of Des Moines, I think of a quiet, peaceful place to live. Of all places, the library? Were you surprised when you heard about this one?
SGT. TODD DYKSTRA, PIO, DES MOINES, IA, POLICE: Oh, it is surprising. And it is a wonderful community to live here in Des Moines. Unfortunately, these are things that nobody likes to see, but they are, fortunately, for the most part, isolated incidents and random acts that don`t occur very often.
GRACE: Sergeant, was the 2-year-old girl clothed when she was discovered in the bathroom?
DYKSTRA: No, she was not.
GRACE: You know what`s amazing to me is that everyone thought so quickly. Not only did they get the girl out, they managed to lock the alleged perp in the men`s room. And everybody just had to wait for cops to get there.
DYKSTRA: The employees of the library definitely need to be applauded for their actions, for their quick thinking and their actions, and they did a wonderful job.
GRACE: Yes, you know what? They really did, because if this guy pulled -- well, he pled guilty. He did pull a knife on a 31-year-old woman in another circumstance.
Now, what I don`t understand -- but who knows what he would have done, cornered in a public library, attacked by librarians?
I want to go straight back to Geoff Greenwood. Geoff, I`ve only got 30 seconds. But is he in custody tonight?
GREENWOOD: He is in custody. They took him into custody right away at the library. The librarians handed him over to police. Police took him in for questioning yesterday afternoon at the Des Moines Police Department. You saw him go into the paddy wagon.
And a little while later, they charged him with first-degree kidnapping, which, here in Iowa, is a mandatory life prison sentence. They charged him with second-degree sexual abuse and also with failure to update his sex offender registry data.
GRACE: We`ll be right back with Geoff Greenwood with KCCI-TV and Sergeant Todd Dykstra. And let me tell you, I used to work at the library. Librarians can be very, very mean.
Very quickly, to tonight`s "All Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for Saul Aguilar, Jr., wanted in connection with the murder of his 20-year-old ex-girlfriend, Yvette Ruiz (ph).
Aguilar, 35, 5`9", 180 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. If you have information on Aguilar, call the FBI, 310-477-6565. We`ll all be right back.
And, remember, live coverage of the Wisconsin hunting murder trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Tonight, we remember Specialist Lee A. Wiegand, just 20 years old, an American hero.
Welcome back. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. An incredible story out of Des Moines. Actually, a miracle.
To Geoff Greenwood, reporter with KCCI-TV. You know, Geoff, so often we cover stories of repeat offenders that molest and end up killing children. This was truly a miracle, I mean, the fact that this child was recovered so quickly after she went missing.
What about the poor babysitter? Was she having a stroke?
GREENWOOD: Well, I can only imagine what must have been going through her mind. She really didn`t have a lot of time to react in this case. And she did what she had to do.
She told a library staff member, and they went into action right away. And fortunately, this was a men`s restroom door that was less than 20 feet away from this computer terminal. You know, thank God it wasn`t an exit door, and he could been off somewhere else where it would have been too late.
But, again, they got him very quickly, and the librarian staff did exactly the right thing.
GRACE: And very quickly, Lauren Howard, stranger sex assaults very unusual, actually.
HOWARD: Well, it`s not that unusual for that particular -- for that compulsion. This guy doesn`t really have a history of this. He raped someone at knifepoint.
You know, my question, Nancy, is I don`t understand how you get three years imprisonment for rape at knifepoint. It seems a little bit meek. It seems a little mild of a punishment.
But, that having been said, there are people who purposely choose victims that are strangers. This guy does not have a history of repeated choice of child molestation. He really is a more complicated, kind of unwell guy, in terms of an antisocial behavior pattern.
GRACE: Lauren...
HOWARD: That`s really what you`re looking at with this guy.
GRACE: Lauren, my immediate thought was yours. Why only three years on a rape out of Texas? And he served it and got out. So he has no parole. His parole cannot be revoked. So, Des Moines, it`s up to you to prosecute this case.
I want to thank all of my guests tonight. But, as always, my biggest thank you is to you for being with us, inviting all of us into your homes.
Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace signing off again for tonight. And I hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
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