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American Morning

New York City Subway Alert; Rove Testifies Again; Policing New Orleans

Aired October 07, 2005 - 08:59   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Millions of New Yorkers on their way to work this morning, perhaps with a higher level of fear in the wake of that announcement of a terror plot which was aimed at the New York City subway system. We'll have live reports on what this all means, and we'll tell you about how the federal government says it may not be that big a deal.
That's coming up on AMERICAN MORNING -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. Welcome, everybody.

We are reporting this morning from upstairs and downstairs. I'm up in the studio, but Miles is right downstairs, where the commuters are just getting their commute under way.

And I've got to imagine, Miles, some of them very tense this morning.

M. O'BRIEN: Yes. "Upstairs, Downstairs" is like an old PBS series. I'm downstairs, right at the subway station here at Columbus Circle, Time Warner Center.

There they are. I mean, there are people going about their average New York morning on their way to work. The question is, how much tension do they have in the wake of this whole notion that there might have been a plot aimed at the New York subway system, perhaps involving bombs in baby buggies or briefcases?

You know, yesterday, Soledad, when I took the subway, I didn't know about the news yet. But as I got on the train, a police officer asked to see what was inside my briefcase. I didn't realize what was going. Now I know.

I thought that was a little bit odd. Of course, we knew a little bit about that.

Let me set the scene for you. New York City, of course. We're on the island of Manhattan. Let's Google map our way down to where we are.

Time Warner is on the southwest tip of Central Park. And several subway lines coming in here, the Number 1, the B, the B and the A, and the C, and about three stops down on the B and the D line at Penn Station is where we find CNN's Alina Cho.

And Alina, just my brief anecdotal assessment here is people are going about their daily chores and their daily trips to work. Are you finding the same down there?

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, absolutely, Miles. This does not seem to be bothering people, at least outwardly.

Many of you know by now that 4.5 million people ride the New York subways on any given weekday. And if you take a look at Penn Station, where we are now, it is one of the busiest subway stations in the city. Ridership here, it appears, has not leveled off.

Now, here's what we can tell you about the threat itself. Law enforcement sources say it appears to involve bombs possibly hidden in baby carriages, and that as many as 15 to 20 people may have been involved in the planning.

Now, what does that mean if you are a New York City subway commuter today? Well, that means tightened security. No surprise there.

A lot of bag searches going on today. And officers are paying particular attention to baby strollers, briefcases and luggage.

Now, more officers also are patrolling the subway stations, and many of them are also riding the subway cars, both uniformed and undercover officers. Commuters, though, as I mentioned, don't seem to be phased by all of this. After all, the subway is still one of the most efficient and one of the most economical ways to get from point A to point B. And commuters say terrorist or not, they will continue to ride it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You shouldn't be afraid. If we're afraid they win. You need to go about your life and go about your routine and go to work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHO: Now, most people we spoke to say that they believe that New York will eventually be the target of a terrorist attack, but, Miles, they are also saying that they will not let this change their routine -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: I think that's kind of the New York approach to things. All right. Thank you very much, Alina Cho.

Now left's shift our attention to Washington. As we mentioned, the mayor of this city, Michael Bloomberg, when he made his announcement, said this was as specific a threat that he has encountered since 9/11. But the federal government, the Department of Homeland Security has a different story. There seems to be a bit of a disconnect this morning.

For more on that and what the administration is doing in the wake of all this, let's turn it now to Elaine Quijano at the White House.

Good morning, Elaine. ELAINE QUIJANO, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Miles.

And White House officials here are saying essentially what the Department of Homeland Security has said, is that certainly they are aware of this threat. At the same time, though, they did not deem the information credible or verifiable. Nevertheless, it was passed on to New York city authorities.

Now, President Bush later today during a meeting with the prime minister of Hungary could very well comment on this situation, but Mr. Bush yesterday focused on the larger war on terror and Iraq. During a speech here in Washington, the president saying that 10 al Qaeda plots have been foiled, three of them plans to attack inside the U.S. Mr. Bush also addressed criticism that the war in Iraq is creating more terrorists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're facing a radical ideology with inalterable objectives to enslave whole nations and intimidate the world. No act of ours invited the rage of the killers. And no concession, bribe or act of appeasement would change or limit their plans for murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

QUIJANO: Now, President Bush once again argued the United States would not be better off withdrawing its forces immediately from Iraq, saying that would allow terrorists to take over that country. Now, this, of course, is a critical time in Iraq, with a vote on a constitution just a week away. And political success there is tied closely to President Bush's.

Recent polls show Mr. Bush has not gotten a lot of public support. In fact, falling public support he has faced when it comes to his Iraq policy. Nevertheless, the president reiterating yesterday, Miles, that the United States will continue to stay the course -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Elaine Quijano at the White House.

Thanks very much.

As we say, New York commuters appear to be going about their business this morning, but take a look at the tabloids that they'll be reading on the subway this morning. This is "The Daily News," "Bombs in Strollers." That's a good way too spend your commute, reading about that.

"New York Post," "Subway Bomb Plot." Certainly a little bit unnerving, even in a city that is famously stiff upper lip in its own way.

In just a little bit we're going to talk to the former police commissioner here, Howard Safir. We'll ask him about this current threat, apparent threat to the New York subway system and the general threat of terror in the transit systems.

And remember, always stay with CNN, your most reliable source of information about your security.

Back to you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: All right, Miles. Thanks.

Well, presidential adviser Karl Rove is going to testify again before the grand jury inquiry into the leak of a CIA operative's identity. It will be Rove's fourth appearance in the investigation.

CNN National Correspondent Bob Franken live in our Washington bureau this morning.

Hey, Bob. Good morning.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

Fairly significant that someone would appear before a grand jury in one investigation four times. Some lawyers believe that that's ominous for Karl Rove. Others say that he may just have some explaining to do to the grand jury about previous testimony or that that's come from others. In any case, he is the president's top political adviser.

The grand jury does meet today, although it's not clear whether Rove will be appearing today. He is one of the top level officials in the White House who has been named repeatedly in the investigation into the CIA leaks.

Scooter Libby, Lewis Libby, is the chief of staff of Vice President Cheney. He is another one who is described as a source of information that came out in July of 2003 about the wife of a critic of the administration's weapons of mass destruction policy.

This is an investigation that is moving ahead, with some suggestion that it may be coming to a close, and no suggestions from the prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, whether he'll indict anyone -- Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin described it earlier, Bob, as sort of like an iceberg. You know, you can kind of get a sense of what's going on from the tip, but there's a lot more going on underneath.

Bob Franken, in our Washington bureau this morning.

Thanks, Bob.

Other stories now. Carol Costello is taking a look at those.

Good morning.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Soledad.

Good morning to all of you. "Now in the News," Chief nuclear inspector Mohamed ElBaradei speaking out for the first time since winning the Nobel Peace Prize. ElBaradei and the U.N. nuclear watchdog agency, the IAEA, were named the recipients of this year's prize earlier this morning. The Nobel committee says it hopes the honor will strengthen the United Nations and help stop the spread of nuclear weapons.

ElBaradei shared that sentiment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOHAMED ELBARADEI, IAEA DIRECTOR GENERAL: I think my message to the Nobel Peace Committee, which I already (INAUDIBLE), who just called me, is to say thank you. Thank you for precisely giving prominence to the role of the agency. Thank you for supporting a cause which is not very fashionable today, which is nuclear disarmament.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: ElBaradei will officially receive the prize at a ceremony in Oslo, Norway, on December 10.

Word of more American troop deaths in Iraq this morning. Six American Marines have been killed in separate attacks in Iraq's Anbar province. Military officials announcing the fatalities earlier this morning. The Marines died in two separate roadside bombings on Thursday.

There is word al Qaeda may be running out of money. The Pentagon says it has intercepted a letter believed to be from Ayman al-Zawahiri to al Qaeda leaders in Iraq. It claims the terrorist network is short on cash and facing defeat in Afghanistan. It's not clear when the letter may have been written.

Dozens of Hurricane Katrina evacuees are moving on and moving in. A Louisiana trailer community built just north of Baton Rouge is now opening its doors. So far, only about 50 people have arrived, but certainly more are expected. There is room for some 2,000 evacuees.

FEMA is overseeing and funding the park. It says a postal service and bus stops are now in the works.

And we've been telling you about those wildfires in California. Some progress is being made against a 4,000-acre blaze in a rugged area along the U.S.-Mexican border. The fire now is about 30 percent contained. At one point, firefighter had to race across the border into Mexico to keep the flames away from some buildings.

Firefighters are also close to getting a fire in control. That's the one east of Los Angeles. In fact, they say that one is almost fully under control.

But let's check to see which way the winds are blowing.

Good morning, Chad. CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good morning, Carol.

(WEATHER REPORT)

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, law and order in New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina. We'll take a look at how the cops plan to keep the peace as the residents return.

Also, an American who went to Iraq to become a soldier came back as a sheik. Find out how he was rewarded for all his good deeds -- Miles.

M. O'BRIEN: Peace on the New York City subways. This is my stop, and I'm going to take the Number 1 train a little later today. In just a moment, I'm going to ask an expert, a former police commissioner here in this city, if I'm doing the right thing.

That's coming up on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

M. O'BRIEN: Welcome back, everybody. Miles O'Brien reporting live now from just outside our office here with the 59th Street Columbus Circle Station, about -- how, many? One, two, three -- five subway lines come through here, and it's a busy place this morning in spite of what's in the headlines, which is that there was, at least, a terror plot aimed at the New York City subways.

You know, 4.5 million people use this system every day to get to and from work. It's by far the largest transit system in the United States. And I guess you would agree there would be no surprise that terrorists would find it a tempting target.

Here to talk a little bit about this latest terror plot and what lies ahead, and the response to it is Howard Safir former commissioner of police here in New York City.

Mr. Safir, good to have you with us once again.

HOWARD SAFIR, FMR. NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good to be here.

M. O'BRIEN: I'm confused about this -- the statements I've heard. The mayor said this is the most specific threat that he has seen since 9/11. The Department of Homeland Security is saying, well, specific, but not credible.

What are we supposed to do as commuters when we hear that?

SAFIR: We have to take it as a credible threat. The information comes from the intelligence community to the FBI, to the NYPD. Somewhere Homeland Security got out of the loop.

The fact is, high value, soft target in the biggest city in the world. The reality is we've got to take it as a credible threat. What the NYPD is doing is exactly right. M. O'BRIEN: All right. So you have to err -- I guess what you're saying is you have to err on the side of greater security even if the information might be somewhat shaky. You have to do that.

SAFIR: Well, you have to look at history. Madrid, London, what makes us think that we're not vulnerable to the same kind of attack. We have to take this very seriously, and what Commissioner Kelly is doing is exactly right.

M. O'BRIEN: Yesterday as I took the subway, before I even knew about this news, somebody asked to see my briefcase. I was a little bit taken aback. That wasn't -- you know, since what happened in London this summer, that was out there. But it kind of took me aback, but nevertheless, you do it, you go on.

But I couldn't help but wonder, with 4.5 million people using it, how effective or ineffective that might be.

SAFIR: It's all part of a tiered response. You can see behind me there are two New York City policemen at the entrance to the subway. There are undercover officers on the subway.

They're using technology, cameras, detectors, all kinds of things we can't talk about. But the reality is that they're doing a lot of different things that you don't see. And terrorists won't succeed. If you harden the target, they go to Plan B.

M. O'BRIEN: You know, and hardening a target is one thing -- is good. Also, being unpredictable in how you guard a particular target is very important, because as we've seen time and again, they case these things out, they rehearse them time and again, don't they?

SAFIR: Al Qaeda is well disciplined, well financed, totally committed. If they don't do one target, it's another. Look at the World Trade Center, '93 was the first bombing. Virtually the same group on 9/11. So we have to understand that this is a long war that we're involved in.

M. O'BRIEN: The vulnerability of these systems just by their very nature, free and open to the public, easy access, it's almost impossible really to guard against a determined terrorist, particularly a suicide -- someone who is bent on suicide. Is it really just a matter of time before it happens?

SAFIR: Well, I think it's a matter of time before we're attacked again, but you can guard subways and transport. You have to use technology. The problem is there's good leadership in the MTA, but getting them to turn this big ship around is very difficult.

M. O'BRIEN: What do you mean by that?

SAFIR: What I mean is there is so much bureaucracy, that there's a lot of new technology which is moving a lot faster than the implementation.

M. O'BRIEN: Now, are you talking about some of these -- you know, for example, we talked about in London the closed-circuit television system they have that is so impressive there. Is that part of what you're talking about?

SAFIR: Well, that's part of it, but there's even better stuff today. There is intelligent TV that is not just something that will memorialize an event. It will actually prevent an event. You put algorithms in there that will basically tell you when any event that you program is going to happen.

M. O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk about dollars and cents here for just a moment. The federal government would tell you that this is, you know, a local and state thing. Policing it is the responsibility of the MTA and the NYPD.

Having said that, the Department of Homeland Security budget actually calls for a huge cut for security aimed at, you know, ground transportation, transit systems, and an increase in airline security.

Is that the way the money should be spent right now?

SAFIR: Absolutely not. That's a big mistake. We have spent literally billions on passenger screening, and as you've seen from the recent red team tests, that hasn't been very effective.

What we need to do is we need to give the state and local governments the money. They have the expertise. They know their localities. They know the threat level.

That's where the money should go. And it should not go across the board. It should go to places like New York City, Chicago, Miami and Los Angeles.

M. O'BRIEN: Of course the rap has been money has come to the MTA, for example, and it hasn't been spent. I mean, that's important that the local officials step up to the plate.

SAFIR: Well, I think you need leadership. You need leadership like Rudy Giuliani, who is not going to bureaucracy get in the way.

M. O'BRIEN: All right.

Howard Safir, former police commissioner here in New York City, now with a private security firm.

Thanks for your time.

SAFIR: Good to see you.

M. O'BRIEN: All right, Soledad. So far, the subways, you would never know just by looking today as people are coming in and out of the escalators. I suspect, though, having read those tabloids, as I just showed you a little while ago, some people here a little bit nervous today as they make their way to and from work.

S. O'BRIEN: Hey, I take the subway home. I'm nervous when I head home this afternoon. But I'm going to take the subway anyway. M. O'BRIEN: We'll be watching out today. That's what they tell us to do, right?

S. O'BRIEN: Absolutely. All right, Miles. Thanks.

Still to come this morning, so many people gone, the crime rate really no surprise. It's down in New Orleans. So how do police plan to keep it that way? A closer look ahead on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

S. O'BRIEN: New Orleans is a city that's really fighting for its life. Its police force touched by scandal in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, and as residents pour back in, how are authorities trying to keep criminals out?

Acting police superintendent Warren Riley, well, he's been on the job for just over a week. He's in New Orleans this morning.

Nice to se you. Thanks for talking with us.

CHIEF WARREN RILEY, ACTING POLICE SUPERINTENDENT, NEW ORLEANS: Thanks for inviting me.

S. O'BRIEN: How many people would you guess, would you estimate are actually back in the city, sort of the people that you're protecting right now?

RILEY: Well, it certainly would just be a guess, but we estimate about 120,000 right now.

S. O'BRIEN: I've read reports that there have been some nights where you've had no crime. No reports of -- not even like a disorderly conduct kind of thing.

Is that right?

RILEY: That's true, actually. Up until about two weeks ago, they had -- we went about a week with maybe three arrests. No reports of crime.

It's increased a little bit. We're averaging somewhere around 18 or 19 arrests a day right now.

S. O'BRIEN: Which is incredibly low for the city of New Orleans, which frankly had a pretty sizable crime rate, historically. You kind of get a clean slate now. I mean, the city's being repopulated, you've had this horrible tragedy.

How do you plan to go -- to keep the numbers low? I mean, is there a strategy in place to say, OK, we've kind of got the handle on crime right now, let's keep it that way?

What's the strategy?

RILEY: Well, there are a couple of things. One, we have a great opportunity as the city repopulates and as crime incidents occur to formulate the most comprehensive database and intelligence information system on criminals, which is really great. And we also have the opportunity where we've actually created a 100-person anti-looting squad with the assistance of the Louisiana State Police and the New York State Police.

So we have those areas that are unoccupied being patrolled by anti-looting squads with assistance from the military. And the remainder of our department is focused on those populated areas.

Now, that will expand as -- as the population or occupation continues to occur. So right now, we have a handle on it. We plan on continuing that.

And fortunately -- fortunately, as people come back in, and as we arrest criminals, and our criminal justice system gets up and running, this is an opportunity for us to prosecute them, an opportunity for us to train our officers during this down time so we can provide better information to the district attorney's office to force better prosecutions.

S. O'BRIEN: How long can you continue to pay your officers when the city has no real tax base to speak of and no money?

RILEY: Well, certainly, that's a question I can't answer. That's for the city administration to answer. But I think we're good for at least a couple of months. Three months, hopefully longer.

S. O'BRIEN: And, you know, you mentioned this looting squad. And I'm not telling you something you don't know when we talk about the 13 officers now who are being charged, or being investigated, rather, for allegations of looting. You've got 250 others who are being investigated for basically being MIA during the worst part of the storm.

How quickly can you settle these -- both of these issues, both of these cases, to restore sort of faith in your department?

RILEY: Well, we're working very quickly to do that. However, we're doing our very best to be fair about this entire situation.

Concerning the 12, it's now actually 13 offices that are under investigation for looting. That's an ongoing process. Hopefully, within 30 to 60 days, those investigations will be complete and we'll have a conclusion.

Concerning the 249 officers that -- there's actually a list of all officers who were not here for the hurricane, or who left after the storm actually arrived. So there are many circumstances that are involved.

Of that 249, some of them legitimately were not at their assigned posts simply because they couldn't get there due to the hurricane. So we're dwindling that number down. We'll have a concrete number within 14 days, and then we will have some hearings that will determine the faith or the future of those officers. S. O'BRIEN: I've read that you think that number of officers you just took off is somewhere around 100. What happens to an officer who is determined to have left his job? What do you do with them, fire them outright?

RILEY: Well, if they were not here, and they abandoned -- if they were not here for the storm -- because all officers were ordered to be here for the hurricane. There was there no furlough, no sick time, unless you were already injured. Those officers will be terminated.

S. O'BRIEN: Chief Warren Riley is the acting New Orleans police superintendent.

Thanks.

RILEY: Thank you.

S. O'BRIEN: Still to come this morning, it's the little things that count, they say, from finding a working ATM to getting a cup of coffee. We're going to take a look at some of the smaller obstacles to a normal life in New Orleans.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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