Return to Transcripts main page

CNN SUNDAY NIGHT

Relief Efforts Underway in Southeast Asia; Looking into Police Brutality in New Orleans; New York City Still Reeling from Terror Threats

Aired October 9, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN SUNDAY NIGHT. We are just learning the magnitude of another natural disaster. The death toll soars to 22,000 in South Asia. Hundreds of children are buried in the rubble from that massive earthquake in Pakistan and India.
And in New Orleans, caught on tape, new questions tonight face a police department already under investigation. Police officers beat a man to pulp on Bourbon Street.

And White House secrets exposed. Former FBI head Louis Freeh is talking and he has some pretty choice stories about former President Clinton. The Clinton camp responds tonight.

These stories and a lot more, next on CNN SUNDAY NIGHT.

Up first tonight, earthquake victims in mass graves. Thousands of people their fate still unknown, and a desperate plea for help from South Asia to the rest of the world. Tonight that help is arriving.

In Pakistan, in India and throughout the region, desolate after this weekend's powerful earthquake, plane loads of supplies and rescuers rushed into the middle of enormous destruction and death. The long, sad climb out of this disaster begins in earnest. Officials put the number of dead at some 22,000, mostly in Pakistan, the number of injured at least twice that. And most heartbreaking are the many reports of crumbled homes and schools in places so remote there are no emergency crews to save those trapped inside.

Now of all the widespread damage, people in the mountainous region of Kashmir are dealing with the worst of it. They also suffered the most casualties closest to the quake's epicenter.

Kashmir has always been a violent place, angrily disputed and the scene of two wars, but nobody is talking politics there tonight.

CNN's Satinder Bindra reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SATINDER BINDRA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is all that remains of the town of Balakot. Saturday's earthquake virtually wiped it off the map.

PERVEZ MUSHARRAF, PAKISTANI PRESIDENT: 75 percent of Balakot, this small town, is gone. BINDRA: Pakistan's Northwest Frontier Province has suffered extensive damage. Roads remain inaccessible, blocked by landslides. Thousands are feared dead in Pakistan-controlled Kashmir.

Survivors walk around in a daze mourning their dead. Others dig away furiously hoping to find their loved ones.

(on camera): It's hard to imagine all of this happened in just a matter of minutes. This was once a school and the principal says 35 children were killed here.

(voice-over): The bodies of another 25 children are still under the rubble.

Hundreds of people in this region have been injured. Many come to this makeshift government clinic where I meet Salam Din (ph). His eldest daughter, Jagaria (ph), was killed, but he managed to rescue her younger sister, Shakina (ph), who is being treated for a broken leg.

"My younger daughter was injured early in the morning," he says. "I couldn't pull her out until later in the day because there was a steel girder on her leg."

Many of these survivors are critical of the government's relief operation. They say thousands still need help. As he meets these emotionally charged victims, the Pakistani president appeals for patience and calm.

MUSHARRAF: For heaven's sake, bear with us. There are certain limitations. We are trying our best.

BINDRA: Those whose homes have been destroyed now urgently need shelter, food and medicine. Over the next few days the Pakistani government acknowledges its resources will be stretched.

Salam Din (ph) hasn't even started thinking of the future. Like tens of thousands here, he's reliving those frightening moments that changed his life forever.

Satinder Bindra, CNN, Mozaffrabad, Pakistan-controlled Kashmir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Help is on the way. Here is more detail about the relief supplies and the equipment and the promises of money we know are flowing into the devastated quake zone. There is also an unlikely offer of help from Pakistan's neighbor and nuclear rival, India.

So here is the list. An American military task force is forming to distribute supplies and for the long term. Two British teams are now in Islamabad, teams of medics and rescue workers and search dogs. And the European Union commissioner pledged an initial $4 million and promised more if it's needed.

We have on the telephone right now from Islamabad a spokesman for Pakistan's president, Major General Shaukat Sultan.

General Sultan, give us the latest on the rescue operation.

MAJOR GENERAL SHAUKAT SULTAN, MUSHARRAF SPOKESMAN: Yes, the rescue operation is now getting more organized with the passage of time. Forward bases have been established, three in Kashmir and three in the Northwest Frontier Province. Those forward bases have been established.

The rescue teams that have come from outside, those rescue teams have been assigned to the specific areas, like there is a Spanish team that has arrived that has a field hospital. The have a rescue team and they also have the people who need to go and find out the people from under the rubble.

Similarly, there is a French team along with a field hospital that has arrived. There is a team from United Kingdom and a Turkish team that has already arrived. There is a team from UAE and China. They have arrived. And there is a team from Japan.

LIN: So, General, help is on the way. Help is on the way, but hope do you have of finding more people alive? We are hearing terrible stories of children buried in their homes and their schools.

SULTAN: Yes, that is correct. Most of the children have been buried. You need to know that the earthquake came at about 8:51, when in these areas most of the people were out of their homes for work but the children were in the schools. That is how most of the children are worst affected, because almost a generation lost because of this earthquake in these areas. Most of the children have got buried. So this is the worst part of the story. It is unfortunate.

In most of the areas, either they have been taken out or it is the rescue teams in the process of taking out the bodies.

LIN: So, you do not consider this a rescue operation, it's now a recovery operation. You're not optimistic you're going to find many more people alive.

SULTAN: Well, in certain areas even yesterday, a National Bank building that has collapsed in Zufarabad (ph), the people underneath were alive and they were in conversation with the rescue team, but because of very heavy concrete, they could not take them out.

So there are certain areas where rescues can still be done. There are people alive. But they are very few in number. Most of the people under the rubble are now dead.

LIN: The U.S. president says that we Americans will do what we can. Have you made -- has your government made specific requests of the United States?

SULTAN: Yes, that is correct. There are quite a few governments that are sending aid. From the U.S. government we are getting helicopters. That is what we have been told, probably we may be getting Chinooks from the U.S. government. From the German government we are getting heavy transport helicopters and four MI-17s are due to arrive from Afghanistan. So that is how we are going to get transport from these three countries.

LIN: Major General Shaukat Sultan, your hands are full. We pray and hope that you find more people alive.

Thanks for joining us tonight.

SULTAN: Thank you. We need the prayers.

LIN: So many of you out there want to help this growing relief effort, so UNICEF has established a special hotline for earthquake relief. Use this phone number of the Web site to find out how you can donate.

And also, CNN.com has the latest on earthquake rescue operations, relief work, video reports and photo galleries. Link to all of them from our homepage and check back often to stay up to date.

It is so hard to believe that Mother Nature could do so much in one weekend. There is much more to show you now on the mudslide in Guatemala.

Officials are about to make a very difficult decision. The search for survivors in one Guatemalan village may soon be called off. More than 800 people are feared dead after a mudslide engulfed the Mayan town of Panabaj. Now authorities are considering whether to declare the entire town a mass grave.

CNN's Harris Whitbeck is in Guatemala where that destroyed village once stood. We are going to talk with Harris live later in this program, so please stay tuned.

In the meantime, our news "News Around the Nation" starts in New Hampshire where a state of emergency is declared right here. One person died during this huge storm which dumped up to six inches of rain. The National Guard has been called up and about 500 people have been evacuated.

And seven-year-old James Esees (ph) went missing Saturday morning and searchers in Nevada are desperate to find him. They think he wandered away from a campsite.

Bill Bennett says the news media distorted what he said on his radio show about reducing crime by aborting black babies. He said he was trying to make a bad argument in order to put that notion down. Bennett said one way to reduce crime would be to, quote, "abort every black baby," comments he made responding to one of his listeners. Well, he immediately added that would be ridiculous and morally reprehensible.

Desertion, allegations of looting, as if the New Orleans Police Department didn't have enough problems, there is a disturbing videotape of an incident last night on Bourbon Street. The tape shows police officers hitting a man in the face as they arrested him outside a bar. CNN's Alina Cho has been following the story and has the video of the incident, and we want to warn you it is extremely graphic.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the tape, two New Orleans police officers can be seen trying to make an arrest. The man in question identified as 64-year-old Robert Davis, does not appear to resist. Moments later, an officer on horseback maneuvers in front of the Associated Press photographer, blocking his view of the scene.

Then a glimpse. By our count, Davis sustains four blows to the head. His head also appears to hit the wall. Later, four men, two of them clearly identified as police, push Davis to the ground and place him in a headlock. They try to handcuff him. Here again, an officer punches Davis two more times.

CAPT. MARLON DEFILLO, N.O. POLICE SPOKESMAN: Now the question that comes to mind as fas as investigators is the degree of force used by the officers and was that force appropriate. And we believe that, based on the preliminary review, it was not appropriate. It was not inline with the department policies and procedures. It was not inline with the department's training. So certainly that is a great concern for the police department.

CHO: At this point, a man who identifies himself as Officer S.M. Smith pushes the Associated Press producer and pins him against a car in a tirade full of expletives.

The officer says, "I've been here for six weeks trying to keep myself alive. Go home." All of this is happening just outside a hotel where a CNN photojournalist is staying. He notices the street is blocked off, a bloody man is on the ground and begins taping.

Davis's shirt is soaked with blood. As he tries to turn over it becomes clear he has suffered head injuries.

DEFILLO: Those three police officers that we've identified will be suspended from the department today and they will be arrested, and will be arrested for simple battery.

CHO (on camera): The suspect, Robert Davis, is charged with battery on a police officer, public intoxication and intimidation and resisting arrest. A New Orleans police spokesman called the Associated Press tape of the incident "troubling" and says the department has launched a full criminal investigation.

Alina Cho, CNN, New Orleans.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: You can be sure we're going to be following up on that criminal investigation.

In the meantime, there is better news to report out of the Gulf Coast. Army Lieutenant General Russell Honore says the Gulf Coast is well on its way to cleaning up from Hurricane Katrina and he says the Army will phase out almost all of its duties in the area this week as the Louisiana National Guard starts to take over the duties there.

Also another sign that Louisiana is getting back on track, rail service has resumed in and out of New Orleans. Amtrak's City of New Orleans train has returned to its namesake city for the first time since Katrina struck the Gulf Coast. An Amtrak spokesman says he expects passenger traffic to grow slowly but steadily in the weeks to come.

Doing his part for Gulf Coast hurricane relief, a Grammy caliber performer with an ear for charity. On stage tonight in Atlanta, R&B star Usher with a few of his recording artist friends. All proceeds from this show go directly to Project Restart, which provides housing to those who have lost homes to Hurricane Katrina and Rita.

And also in attendance, free of charge, about 5,000 hurricane evacuees who could use a night out, don't you think?

All right, in the meantime, dishing new dirt on the Clinton White House. Straight ahead, former FBI Director Louis Freeh vents about his former president. You know about the scandals, but you've never heard these details.

Also, on the frontlines, an exclusive look at the dangers faced by journalists in the war zone.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: On the "Security Watch" tonight, terror alerts beneath the streets of the Big Apple. New Yorkers are seeing more uniforms on the subway system tonight and beefed up presence will continue tomorrow. The man who sent them there said there is good reason to worry.

CNN's Keith Oppenheim in New York tonight.

Keith, today was one of the days that intelligence information said a bomb might go off in the subways. Anything happened?

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, nothing happened, Carol. It's been calm, but there has been increased police presence tonight, Carol. Above ground, here in Times Square, and certainly below ground.

New York's police commissioner is not backing down from keeping his officers out in force at the subway stops. At Yankee Stadium tonight as I speak, there is a playoff game. Increased security patrols there, in part because of the security threat. So New Yorkers find themselves having to decide how to act when they are on the one hand warned and on the other told to start their week as they normally would.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): To show life in New York doesn't need to change, Mayor Michael Bloomberg marched in a series of Columbus Day parades over the weekend, this one in the Bronx.

But with all the demonstrations of normalcy, the mayor said he believes something very real and dangerous was behind his decision to warn the public about a possible terrorist attack on the New York subway system.

While federal officials at the Department of Homeland Security question the credibility of the threat, Bloomberg said again today he felt compelled to act.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, NEW YORK: You've got to understand that what we've got to do is deploy our resources, and we're not in the business of saying, well, let's wait until everything is sure. We want to make sure we do everything that we can in advance.

OPPENHEIM: At subway stops across town, police presence was high, and for the most part commuters and residents were defiant, insisting threats should not change their New York way of life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not going to have anybody outside of me telling me what I'm doing and what I'm not doing, so I made no change in plans whatsoever. I jumped on the train as soon as I could to get where I had to go.

OPPENHEIM: Not everyone put on a brave face. While ridership did not appear to be affected by the scare, some New Yorkers acknowledged the news has taken a toll.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm nervous, and I'm OK with saying I'm nervous, and I think a lot of people are nervous, but I have to go to work. I have to pay bills. So I must do these things. But I'm not happy to live in this state, no, I'm not happy.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OPPENHEIM: Tomorrow is Columbus Day, so it's not likely to be as busy a day as you would normally have, but many commuters will be starting the work week perhaps defiant or perhaps openly less confident than they might be, but all realizing that they have to deal with a situation where their security just doesn't feel the same.

Carol, back to you.

LIN: Keith, did the police tell you how long they can stay on this alert status?

OPPENHEIM: Well, you know, when we've been talking to cops on the beat, they say they are going to continue to do what they're told, and Ray Kelly, who I had a chance to talk to at a news conference over the weekend, said they hadn't made a decision. They're going to evaluate it day by day. Perhaps by mid-week they'll feel that it's time to back off, but not as of tomorrow.

LIN: Keith Oppenheim, thank you.

Stay tuned to CNN day and night for the most reliable news about your security.

Right now we want to change the subject, and boy do I really mean change the subject. Is there pornography in your church? You heard me, porn in your church.

Well, believe it or not there are two pastors who want their congregations to talk more about porn. Today is Porn Sunday. They organized a whole bunch of churches. Their idea -- well, they're so into it that they created XXXChurch.com and they called it the No. 1 Christian porn site. It is no joke. The ministers who brainstormed the idea told me they are fighting fire with fire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

Can't it also be seen as an outlet for fantasy? I mean, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with people just looking at pictures?

MIKE FOSTER, XXXCHURCH.COM: A lot of time it progresses, and it leads to other things. We've talked to guys that have said you know what, pornography has led me to do things I never thought I would do, whether that be an extramarital affair or whether that be head into strip clubs or just the kind of world of fantasy.

And the problem is, pornography is easier to deal with than a wife or a husband, and an Internet woman never says no.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Well, we're not finished with this porn in church business. Tune into "Paula Zahn" tomorrow because today was Porn Sunday, where 75 churches around the world took on this subject. See my story tomorrow evening at 8:00 Eastern on "Paula Zahn Now."

That leads us to our "Last Call" question. Is the church a good forum to fight pornography? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620 and tell us your first name and where you're calling from.

In the meantime, new details on the Clinton White House scandals. Up next, the stories that kept former FBI Director Louis Freeh a busy man.

And later...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are the days of the Beatles on stage over?

JOHN LENNON, MUSICIAN: Well, they've been over for the last two years because we've been on land, but you never know, do you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: The John Lennon the public never knew. Nearly 25 years after this death, a book with new memories of Lennon and the Beatles.

You are watching CNN SUNDAY NIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Former FBI Director Louis Freeh is going public tonight about the man who appointed him, President Bill Clinton, and little of what he has to say is complimentary.

On "60 Minutes" tonight, Freeh said their relationship went south because of a number of Clinton scandals.

Well, a Clinton spokesman calls the accusations a total work of fiction.

CNN's Peter Viles has more from Los Angeles.

It's getting pretty good -- Peter.

PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is, Carol.

Now, this relationship between President Clinton and Louis Freeh was never a close one, and in this new book called "My FBI" Louis Freeh alleges, among other things, that President Clinton did not take terrorism seriously enough and did not respect the head of the FBI.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(voice-over): One of the frostiest relationships of the Clinton era has now turned downright nasty. Former FBI Director Louis Freeh going public with criticism of the man who chose him for that job, former President Clinton.

Referring to the various scandals that dogged the Clinton White House, Freeh told "60 Minutes," quote, "We were preoccupied in eight years with multiple investigations." He says it became ridiculous when the FBI needed a DNA sample from the president to compare with the infamous stain on Monica Lewinsky's dress.

MIKE WALLACE, "60 MINUTES": Well, the president obviously didn't want anyone around him knowing that the FBI was going to be taking his blood for his DNA. How did you get it?

LOUIS FREEH, FMR. FBI DIRECTOR: Well, we went over the White House. We did it very carefully, very confidentially.

WALLACE: He was at a dinner, a federal dinner --

FREEH: Yes.

WALLACE: Pretended he had to go to the bathroom --

FREEH: And that's where it was done.

VILES: Former Clinton aides are rushing to defend the former president.

JOE LOCKHART, FMR. CLINTON PRESS SECY.: And I think when President Clinton appointed Louis Freeh, he thought he was up to the job. He was wrong. No one made Mr. Freeh go around and chase political rumors and scandals, to go and get into the depths of the president's personal life. He did that to win favor and curry favor with the far right wing in this country. What he didn't do was run the FBI.

VILES: Freeh also claims that Clinton failed to press Saudi Arabia for cooperation in the investigation of the Khobar Towers terror attack, claiming Clinton instead asked the Saudis for money for his own presidential library, another charge Clinton aides deny.

LOCKHART: Everyone who was in those meetings has been talked to. Everyone says what Mr. Freeh is saying is not true. And all he's trying to do is just to follow the right win playbook, which is make up a bunch of charges about President Clinton and do it in a way so you can line your own pockets.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VILES: Freeh also takes aim at Congress in his book, arguing that Congress failed to give the FBI the money and the staff that it needed in the 1990s to fight terrorism long before 9/11 -- Carol.

LIN: Peter, fascinating. Thank you.

In the meantime, Mother Nature still at work. Heavy runs that literally wash communities right off the map. Up next, a live report from Guatemala, where disastrous mudslides leave officials with heartbreaking choices.

And he's convicted of her murder, but is Scott Peterson entitled to Laci's life insurance? He thinks so. We're going to talk about that on the "Rap Sheet."

And don't forget our "Last Call" question. Is church a good forum to fight pornography? Give us a call at 1-800-807-2620.

You're watching CNN SUNDAY NIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: Taking a look at the headlines tonight and tomorrow right now. Here comes another one: A tropical storm that's become a hurricane. We are watching Hurricane Vince, which is way out in the Atlantic right now, but already making history. It's the 20th named storm of the Atlantic hurricane season, one shy of the all-time record.

And it is now Monday in South Asia, where a massive earthquake killed at least 22,000 people. A top aide to Pakistan's president told me a short time ago that he still believes people, even children, will still be found alive.

A new police controversy in New Orleans. A cameraman for the Associated Press took these pictures Saturday night. You can see -- in just a second, there you go -- the officers as they keep punching a man in the face. The police say the man was drunk. A New Orleans police captain tells the AP that three police officers will be suspended, arrested and charged with simple battery.

Now, what would J. Edgar Hoover say? The FBI is thinking about changing its rules so that former marijuana smokers can actually join the FBI. Right now, they won't hire you if you've used pot in the past three years, or more than 15 times ever. But even under the more relaxed rules, however, you couldn't become a coveted G-man or a special agent.

In Indonesia, a 4-year-old boy has tested positive for bird flu, and if confirmed, it would make him the sixth Indonesian person infected. Four Indonesians have died of the flu virus since July.

Now, worldwide, the virus has killed at least 60 people since 2003. There have been only about 100 known cases of human infection in that same period, involving people across 10 Asian countries. The virus has killed millions of birds and appears to be spreading outside of Asia. Just in the last week, there were reports of bird flu at poultry farms in Romania and Turkey.

Now, in Guatemala, an agonizing choice. Residents want to search for their loved ones buried by massive landslides earlier in the week, but officials say the areas are not safe. CNN's Harris Whitbeck joins me now live on the telephone from Guatemala with the very latest from there. Harris, so what does that mean? Does that mean that people who are buried right now, maybe even still alive, would not be found?

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, it's highly improbably that people would still be alive. I was at the site earlier today, and the amount of mud that came crushing down upon this village is just astounding. I mean, there were two-story houses that were completely buried in it. And the authorities fear that continued efforts to dig through the mud are unsafe, because the land around this area, which is very mountainous, is very unstable, and there have been rains that have been continuing now for several days, and those of course make the earth even more unstable.

So the concern is that people, as they try to search through that mud for the remains of their loved ones are actually putting themselves in danger. So that's why there has been more talk of just declaring the entire area a cemetery, and that was a town that had a population of about 5,000 people.

The deputy mayor of the town, (INAUDIBLE), says that he believes that up to 1,000 might be buried under this mud.

LIN: Harris, it's just heartbreaking watching these pictures of people crying and the bodies being taken out. Why is it that people are using ropes and their bare hands to try to get to some of the people buried?

WHITBECK: Because that's really all they have available to them, Carol. This -- that area is isolated in the best of times, but now, due to the heavy rains that have destroyed many of the roads and bridges on Guatemala's southern coast and the highlands of the country, access to this area is even more complicated, and that makes bringing in heavy equipment or backhoes or so on very difficult. So the people are really using (AUDIO GAP), and as you say, you know, just using what they can to try to dig through this.

LIN: So sad. So sad, indeed. Harris Whitbeck reporting on the telephone from Panabaj, this devastated area, where a series of landslides has now buried an entire town, and that the government is weighing the possibility that the rescue operation will stop, and declare this entire area a mass grave.

Now, in other world news, Saddam Hussein will finally go on trial 10 days from now, October 19th. He's accused of mass killings in a Shiite Muslim village in 1982, after he survived an assassination attempt. If convicted, he could be hung.

And gunfire in Gaza. Israeli troops fired on a number of Palestinian men Sunday. The casualty reports differ, but at least two men were killed. An Israeli military spokesman said the Palestinians were spotted sneaking into Israeli territory with suspicious-looking bags.

And Liberia is getting ready to hold its first free election in 14 years. Campaigning ended today. The vote is on Tuesday. There are 22 candidates for president, including a soccer star, a one-time World Bank executive and an assortment of warlords and businessmen.

Well, the cost of war can be measured in the number of lives lost, both military and civilian. And danger lurks for those covering the story as well. According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, 56 reporters have been killed in Iraq since the war began. Our Jennifer Eccleston is among those on the frontlines. She spent several tours of duty embedded with U.S. troops. She has a story you will only see on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's day 10 of our embed, and producer Arwa Damon (ph), photographer Gabe Ramirez (ph) and I find ourselves running through the middle of what Marines call IED ally.

(on camera): They think there's an IED buried where, in the actual pavement, or...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's in the rubble over there.

ECCLESTON: In that rubble?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.

ECCLESTON: So you're going to put some C-4.

In every town we went to, Marines detonated and exploded these IEDs along the very same road where we had just walked minutes before. I have to say at that stage, it did bring a question to mind of what am I doing here, why are we doing this? And then, we look at each other and shrug it off and laugh a little, and move on.

(voice-over): It's my fifth trip to Iraq since the American invasion. After so many close calls, I am beginning to wonder if the odds will inevitably work against us. It almost happened a few days ago. This simple triggering device, made of household items, rigged to an artillery shell, nearly killed Arwa (ph). Her vehicle is totaled. My heart stopped.

(on camera): And it was extremely frustrating to have had such a near-death experience, to have seen the orange flames jump up in front of the vehicle, to hear the detonation, and not have it on camera. So the first thought in my head when I saw you was, (INAUDIBLE) have night scope on the camera, I missed that shot, which might seem completely and totally absurd to anyone else.

(voice-over): Insurgent gunfire and rockets had us trapped on this roof in eastern Karabola for over an hour.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty-four to 86, what's going on? Roger. Anybody know what that machinegun fire was?

ECCLESTON: The tension in the air was suffocating. We needed to find a way to tape the action that we could hear in other areas but we could not see. So when Captain Conlin Karabine (ph) made the decision to fire a tank round into a suspected insurgent hideout, we scrambled to get that shot. But what came out of the dust was traumatic, surreal. Young women, young children, with their hands up in the air, in submission. Their faces caked with dust and blood, wailing, crying, some in the state of shock.

(on camera): Why do we run to danger, instead of doing what normal people do, run away? This is a story that has value. This is a story that needs to be told. And that's what we do, we're storytellers. We bring people a slice of life, a slice of reality, and is it worth getting blown up? That's something I think about all the time. Probably not, but until such time, I think there's -- there's -- this is important. There's value to what we do, so that's why I keep doing it.

(voice-over): Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, western Al-Anbar province, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: Up next on our "Rap Sheet," Dr. Phil at the center of a big court case, and Scott Peterson has a request from jail. He wants Laci's life insurance. The big question: Does he even have a chance to get it? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: He's back! Or at least not going away. Through his attorney, Scott Peterson is refusing to give up his claim to his dead wife's life insurance policy -- $250,000 worth. Meanwhile, TV's Dr. Phil is being taken to court. A group of dieters claim he's dished up a worthless diet plan.

Joining me to talk about all of this, "Rap Sheet" regulars Stacey Honowitz, who's a Broward County, Florida prosecutor; Jayne Weintraub is...

JAYNE WEINTRAUB, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Hi, Carol.

LIN: ... a criminal defense attorney.

Hi, guys.

WEINTRAUB: How are you.

LIN: I'm doing just fine. Stacey, what do you think about that? Mark Geragos says that he's not going to give up his client's claim for his wife, his dead wife's life insurance until the appeals process is done.

STACEY HONOWITZ, BROWARD COUNTY PROSECUTOR: Do you have any idea how long that appeals process is going to take? It could take years, years and years.

WEINTRAUB: What's the difference?

HONOWITZ: She has every right to go in now, she can get the money.

LIN: You're talking about Sharon Rocha, Laci's mother.

HONOWITZ: Meaning Sharon. Sharon can go in...

LIN: Yeah.

HONOWITZ: ... get the money -- because the money should go to Laci's estate, which is Sharon's. She's not even asking for it to be -- because of the fact that he killed Laci. She's asking for pain and suffering, that's what they're going in, and going to try to prove. The pain and suffering that she has endured during this whole process. She has every right to get it, and hopefully they'll get it into court soon.

WEINTRAUB: Stacey, however long it takes. You can't measure that against waiting for his appeal, and his liberty being at stake. I mean, you're just talking about money. Come on. If the appellate court reverses, Scott Peterson is entitled to that money. Scott is not saying, give me the money now. Scott is saying, hey, wait a minute, don't let them take it yet, because the appeal hasn't been exhausted.

LIN: So how long do you think this can go, Jayne?

WEINTRAUB: I don't think it really matters. It is going to take several years, but it's not a matter of money. Scott Peterson is talking about his liberty from death row, Carol.

LIN: Wait a minute, he's talking about getting his dead wife's money. He's already been convicted of killing her, and it may go through the appeals process, but what's supposed to happen to this money anyway?

WEINTRAUB: Well, Carol, if the case is reversed, and he has to try the case again, that's going to cost an awful lot of money.

HONOWITZ: That is not what a...

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: ... engaging experts, and lawyers, and everything else. It costs a lot of money.

LIN: Jayne, come on. Don't you think he's just trying to stick it to the family?

HONOWITZ: She's asking for pain -- she's asking for pain and suffering. That's what she's going in, for pain and suffering over the death of her daughter. She has every right to walk into court tomorrow and file a lawsuit and not have to wait for this guy to exhaust every appeal possible.

WEINTRAUB: From Scott's point of view...

HONOWITZ: He's (INAUDIBLE) in front of that jury and tell them what happened to her.

WEINTRAUB: From Scott's point of view, he maintains his innocence, don't forget that.

LIN: Yes, but he's already been convicted. And maybe...

WEINTRAUB: By a jury filled...

LIN: ... Sharon Rocha (INAUDIBLE) wrongful death suit, and Scott Peterson uses the life insurance money to pay Sharon Rocha and the family back. I think that works out pretty fair.

WEINTRAUB: I don't think there's a lot of real fair between Scott Peterson and the Rochas, Carol.

LIN: All right. All right, let's talk about Dr. Phil. All right? Here's a situation where the guy comes up with a shape-up plan, you know, talks about taking some herbal supplements and vitamins, and also talks about diet and exercise, and some dieters didn't lose weight, and now they're suing him, and they want to make it this national class action lawsuit. Jayne, do you think these dieters have a case?

WEINTRAUB: No, I don't. But who knows. I think it's a real celebrity go-after, again they're trying for a quick settlement is what I think is happening here, and I'm sure that he's not going to give into a quick settlement like Oprah. I think it will go all the way to a trial. From what I've read..

HONOWITZ: Let me tell you...

WEINTRAUB: From what I've read and seen, I mean, he said that this should work as a supplement, in conjunction with exercise, as always...

HONOWITZ: That's not what they're saying.

WEINTRAUB: ... and a plan.

LIN: Go ahead, Stacey.

HONOWITZ: That's not what they're saying, Carol. When they're walking into court -- first of all, they have to see that they can get this class-certified, so that there can be a national class for everybody. But what they're claiming is that Dr. Phil said that if they took this pill, these supplements, they would lose weight. And unfortunately, what happened is when the Food and Drug Administration went in, they had to close down this whole operation, because obviously there had been no testing on what he was representing.

So I think these people -- if they can prove that he represented that in fact these pills were what was supposed to take the weight off and melt the fat, they...

(CROSSTALK)

WEINTRAUB: ... only three claimants right now. And what they're trying to do is make this a class action, and that's what the judge is going to rule on this week.

LIN: Right, right, right.

WEINTRAUB: Are there so many claims, hundreds or thousands of claims in the country, that it would verify and be right to make it a class action.

You know, it's meant for a defect in the manufacturer situation where...

LIN: Well, wait, wait, wait, wait.

HONOWITZ: Well, wait a second. If he's a celebrity and he writes a weight loss book and he goes out there and endorses it and says, this is what happens, this guy went on the road, he wrote a book, he talked about...

LIN: But he talked about other things. It wasn't just the pill. It wasn't just the pill.

(CROSSTALK)

HONOWITZ: Listen, Carol, I don't know what he said. I am saying these people said that in the book, and when he gave these lectures and when he endorsed it, all he said was about the pill. Now, some may...

LIN: What about personal responsibility? Personal responsibility, you know.

WEINTRAUB: Exactly, exactly.

LIN: Diet, exercise. Diet, exercise. HONOWITZ: Sometimes it can be misleading, and sometimes you rely on the word of somebody else.

LIN: All right, in this case it's going to court. Thanks very much, ladies. Good to see you.

WEINTRAUB: Thanks, Carol.

HONOWITZ: Bye, Carol.

LIN: Coming up, remembering John Lennon. We're going to talk with a journalist who's been covering the Fab Four since they first set foot in the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LIN: It's really hard to believe that it's been a quarter of a century since John Lennon was gunned down outside his New York apartment, and still we're learning new things about the famous singer. Journalist Larry Kane has just written a new book called "Lennon Revealed," and he has a lot of insight into Lennon and the Beatles. He covered the Fab Four since their first U.S. tour in 1964. Larry Kane joins me now from Washington.

Larry, how in the world did you become such good friends with these guys, I mean, where you managed to actually sit down and have some of the most intimate, heart-to-heart conversations with them?

LARRY KANE, AUTHOR, "LENNON REVEALED": I was -- Carol, I was a 21-year-old news director in Miami. They asked me to do an interview with them in Jacksonville. I got an invitation to go on their entire tour. They didn't know I was 21; they thought I was some sort of radio mogul. Met them all, got a very close relationship with John Lennon, and stayed in touch with him in a very close way until his death in 1980.

LIN: And at the height of the anti-war movement, you had a really frank conversation with John Lennon and Paul McCartney about their feelings about the war and what was taking place in society, the riots and the violence. This is what happened, you had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KANE: You read much about these things?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, it's on the news.

KANE: You know, these same people were...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got TV back home now.

KANE: These same people were Beatle people four years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. They've grown up.

KANE: What's your immediate reaction when your read about something like this? It's happening overseas now too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going on everywhere, you see, so the (INAUDIBLE)...

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The main objective of all this going on at once is...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Makes you think, Larry.

(CROSSTALK)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LIN: It just makes you think. Larry, you were watching that very wistfully. What was going through your mind?

KANE: Well, you know, I remember the interview, and I remember the fact that they talked in that interview, which was their last filmed interview, which is on the DVD that comes with the book, before they broke up. And six months later, the seeds were sown for this tremendous breakup. And I was thinking about one of the great myths about John Lennon was that he didn't get along with Paul McCartney. And that's a lot of bunk, and it's debunked in my book. There are a lot of myths about John.

But you have to understand something, Carol. He was what I considered to be the poster boy for imperfection. He didn't mind showing his flaws. He didn't mind sharing his grief and his pain and his anxiety with the people who were listening to his music. And for many of us, I think the reason that we loved him so much and respected him so much, despite his drunken problem, despite his drug problem, despite his sometime flirtation with domestic abuse and beatings, the fact is that we loved the guy because he said it's OK to be imperfect, I'm not a role model. And he left us with an activism that few public people have ever had.

LIN: You said he developed four loves in his life -- Yoko Ono obviously one of them. But you mentioned a sexual relationship with a man named Stuart Sutcliffe.

KANE: Sutcliffe was his best friend, his best buddy, the closest person he ever knew, and the Sutcliffe family, especially Pauline, the sister, believes there was a sexual relationship there.

LIN: Why?

KANE: Because they experimented together. They went to Hamburg. But this guy was very important in his life, besides that. He was the man who was his muse. He taught him how to dress. He was avant- garde. They loved each other, and John inflicted a terrible beating on him that may have caused his demise. And then of course Cynthia Lennon and Yoko part I, Yoko part II, and in the middle of that was the unsung woman. Her name is May Pang (ph), and today she's the mother of two children, and she was very much in love with him, and she was fixed up with him by Yoko. So it was a strange adult life that John Lennon had.

LIN: So what do you think his legacy is going to be? What do people, you know, beyond the music, what do you think -- what would you want people to remember about John Lennon?

KANE: John was a great guy. In addition to all the problems he had, he was very soft and tender and sensitive. He came to Philadelphia to do a charity marathon because he knew it was for a disease that killed my mother back in 1964, MS. I think he will be remembered as a celebrity unlike so many of the celebrities today, who were totally indulged in their own glamour, in their own jewelry, in their own appearances and being on the entertainment shows, as a person who thought every day in his life about other people, about people who are undernourished, people who are underprivileged, people who were victims of war, and he was an equal opportunity protester. He complained about Republicans, Democrats, independents, and he was somebody who made us think about the world.

His song, "Imagine," by the way, in 1971, was demonized by people because he had the words in it...

LIN: Larry...

KANE: "Imagine no religion."

LIN: Larry, it's obvious, even 25 years later, you miss him deeply.

KANE: I do.

LIN: Thanks very much for sharing the memories. Larry Kane, who's written a book, "Lennon Revealed."

KANE: Thank you, Carol.

LIN: Up next, a check of the headlines and then CNN 25: "Flash Forward." "Fortune" magazine takes a look into the future and tells us the ideas and the tools and the innovations that are going to shape our lives. But right now, we're going to leave you with tonight's responses to your "Last Call" question. Is church a good forum to fight pornography? Here's what you had to say. Have a great night.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CALLER: No, it's terrible. The revolution of pornography should be fought in the Congress.

CALLER: I am from Brooklyn, New York, my name is Ben Reid (ph), and I'm a Christian, and I think that's a good place to fight it.

CALLER: (INAUDIBLE) from Rocktown (ph), Georgia. I'd say no, that doesn't need to be in the church, because that into the church to me brings evil and brings the devil to the church, and that's one place the devil doesn't deserve to be, and he's not going to be there. So I'd say no, pornography in the church does not belong.

CALLER: Pornography is very degrading. It exploits women. It's a shame that women do that, and men also. This is terrible. It's a bad influence on kids, and I believe if the church can, you know, stop it or abolish it, you know, it's a really good thing.

CALLER: Absolutely not. That is a ridiculous thing to do. It's sinful, it's just not right. This is Tony from Seattle.

CALLER: Yes, the church can be a good forum to fight pornography, if the members of the church can fight it within themselves. If you're addicted to porn, then you'll be addicted to porn, whether you go to church or not. You must decide within yourself that you want to stop reading or stop watching pornography.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com