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Lou Dobbs Tonight
White House Launches Strategy to Push Miers; Bush Administration Braces for Charges in CIA Leak Case
Aired October 17, 2005 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
LOU DOBBS, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
Tonight, the White House faces two critical challenges as it tries to fight plummeting poll numbers for President Bush. The White House today re-launched its strategy to win support for Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers. At the same time, top White House officials tonight are bracing for possible charges this week in the CIA-White House leak investigation.
We begin on three reports tonight on a White House besieged. We'll be reporting on the latest administration attempts to convince skeptical conservatives to support Harriet Miers.
We'll also be reporting on the escalating pressure on the White House as a special prosecutor considers charges in the CIA-White House leak case.
And we'll be reporting on a new opinion poll that shows declining support for President Bush.
We turn now to Dana Bash at the White House, who reports on what could easily be called the Harriet Miers re-nomination.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): If this were a movie, right about now the director would yell, "Harriet Miers, take two!"
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: She has been a leader in the legal profession. She's impressed these folks. They know her well. They know that she'll bring excellence to the bench.
BASH: These folks are six former Texas Supreme Court justices summoned to the White House to offer personal testimonials, part of a rebooted Bush effort to fight criticism Miers is not qualified for the high court.
JAMES BAKER, FMR. TEXAS SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I can vouch for her ability to analyze and to strategize.
EUGENE COOK, TEXAS SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: Harriet Miers is an excellent lawyer. I've seen her go toe to toe with the opponents.
BASH: With this, Bush aides are trying to bounce back after several failed attempts to sell Miers to a furious rank and file, like playing up her religion.
BUSH: They want to know as much as they possibly can before they form opinions. Part of Harriet Miers' life is her religion.
BASH: That backfired with many conservatives. So did the president's "trust me" line.
BUSH: I know her heart, I know what she believes.
BASH: On Capitol Hill, Miers herself apparently tried to stop one bit of brewing controversy from a report two of her Texas friends told conservatives on a conference call she would overturn Roe v. Wade.
Democrat Chuck Schumer says he asked her about it.
SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: She said, no, she had not. She said, "Nobody knows my views on Roe v. Wade." She said, "No one can speak for me on Roe v. Wade."
BASH: The group Progress for America is helping the White House with their "Miers is plenty qualified" campaign with paid ads touting past justice with no experience. In fact,, a spokesman for the group says they're footing most of the bill for the former Texas justices making the rounds in D.C., from press conferences to TV interviews.
JOHN HILL, TEXAS SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: She has a very clear understanding of the role of the courts in our society as a third branch of government.
BASH: They're talking up Miers' legal abilities.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When we were on the lottery commission together, a lot of the problems we had there were legal in nature. And she was just very, very insistent that we always get all the facts together.
BASH: But conservatives and Democrats alike say third parties can't answer what they still know nothing about, her judicial philosophy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she's going satisfy Republicans in the Senate, if she's going to satisfy the country, it's going to come down to what she herself says.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And the White House tonight is preparing answers that Harriet Miers are putting to the Senate Judiciary Committee. They had a very lengthy questionnaire. They expect to send that up tomorrow morning, and they hope, Lou, here at the White House, that will begin to fill in some of the blanks, especially among Republicans that have left them very concerned and their votes undecided.
DOBBS: Dana, thank you very much. Dana Bash from the White House. In what appears to be the final days of the CIA-White House leak investigation, President Bush today declined to say whether any member of his administration who is indicted should resign. President Bush appears to have changed his position on the issue. In July, the president declared that anyone who committed a crime by leaking the name of a covert CIA operative would be fired.
Suzanne Malveaux reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Just days away from the federal grand jury deadline. Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald will decide whether he'll seek criminal charges against anyone for leaking the identity of CIA operative Valerie Plame. Legal sources say Fitzgerald is also considering lesser charges like perjury or obstructions of justice.
Most of Fitzgerald's attention seems to be focused on Karl Rove, President Bush's top political adviser who testified for the fourth time on Friday, and Scooter Libby, the vice president's chief of staff, who's testified numerous times before as well.
Rove denies leaking but has admitted to talking with reporters about the fact that former ambassador Joe Wilson's wife worked at the CIA. According to "TIME" magazine, Rove already has a contingency plan if he's indicted to resign or to go on unpaid leave, a scenario the president refused to talk about.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, would you expect a member of your administration to resign or take leave if they were indicted?
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not going to -- I'm not going to prejudge the outcome of the investigation.
MALVEAUX: But Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, said, "There is absolutely no truth whatsoever to the report that Mr. Rove has made contingency plans concerning his possible indictment."
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Karl is here at the White House doing his duties as he always does.
MALVEAUX: But Washington insiders says conventional wisdom is that Rove or any top official faced with charges would have no choice but to step down. And already there's speculation about who would move in as part of Mr. Bush's new team.
DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: I would imagine the president would ask Ed Gillespie to step in and take that role. He's a very senior person who's experienced, the president likes him, relied on him.
MALVEAUX: But Republican sources say until Fitzgerald makes his next move, everyone is just holding their breath.
(END VIDEOTAPE) MALVEAUX: And a Republican insider close to the White House says indictments or no indictments, he said it is time now to press the reset button at the White House. He is calling for really a shakeup in the administration, but he says, Lou, that there are very few people who can actually say that to the president -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Suzanne Malveaux, from the White House.
The latest poll numbers show that President Bush's approval ratings remain near historic lows. This is the latest in a number of polls saying the president is losing support.
Bill Schneider reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: President Bush's job approval rating is down to 39 percent in the latest CNN "USA- Today"-Gallup poll. That's the third poll in the past week to show the president's job rating below 40.
(voice over): What's driving it down? Here's a clue. The president's entire decline came in the suburbs, where his support went down 10 points over the last three weeks. His support is almost unchanged among urban and rural voters.
Suburbanites are swing voters. Why are they swinging against President Bush? Probably gas prices. It's gotten very expensive to drive kids to soccer practice these days.
Republicans are still pretty solid for President Bush, 84 percent, almost unchanged. Bush's support among Independents is down to 32 percent. Among Democrats, 8 percent.
Former Georgia senator Zell Miller may have been the last Bush Democrat.
Then there's the controversy over Harriet Miers for the Supreme Court. By a narrow plurality, 44 to 36 percent, the public would like the Senate to confirm Miers. That is substantially below the 59 percent who favored John Roberts' confirmation in July a few weeks after he was nominated. By just about the same margin, the public does not want President Bush to withdraw Miers' nomination.
What about conservatives who have been the most vocal critics of the Miers' nomination? Only 26 percent of conservatives would like to see the president withdraw the Miers' nomination. Liberals are more than twice as likely to want her nomination pulled.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCHNEIDER: Which suggests conservative activists who have been urging the president to pull the Miers' nomination may be out of touch with the conservative base -- Lou.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Bill Schneider.
A new development tonight in the political and legal battle between former House majority leader Tom DeLay and Texas prosecutor Ronnie Earle. The congressman's attorney today accused Earle of offering a deal that would have saved his job as majority leader. DeLay would have been required to plead guilty to a misdemeanor.
But DeLay refused to accept the deal. He now faces felony charges for alleged conspiracy and money laundering in a campaign finance case. No comments so far from district attorney Ronnie Earle.
The war in Iraq remains a difficult and large issue for voters in this country as the number of Americans killed in Iraq rises to almost 2,000. Five Americans were killed in the city of Ramadi as the weekend saw the Iraqis vote in a new constitution. After that attacks, the military says U.S. air strikes near Ramadi resulted in the deaths of 70 insurgents.
Meanwhile, Iraqi government officials are continuing to count votes from Saturday's referendum. But a large sandstorm has delayed the transportation of some ballots to a counting center in Baghdad.
The counting is take place as Iraqis prepare for the trial of Saddam Hussein, which begins this Wednesday. Saddam Hussein is accused of ordering the deaths of 140 people after an attempt on his life in 1982.
Still ahead here, we're following a breaking story out of northern California, where police are about 20 minutes away from a news conference to be held in the case of the murder of a defense attorney's wife and television legal commentator, Daniel Horowitz. We're keeping an eye on that. We'll have the very latest for you as it happens.
Corporate supremacists hate the middle class. Why the assault on our middle class may be bolstering the middle class of another country at the expense of ours.
And new bankruptcy rules going into effect today. We'll tell you why you, the consumer, you're on the losing end.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld traveled to Beijing today for the first time in his four-year tenure amid rising concern in Washington over China's growing military power. In June, Rumsfeld declared China is spending too much of its budget on its military for a country that faces no threat. A month later, a top Chinese general said China might launch nuclear strikes against the United States in any confrontation over Taiwan.
Despite that threat, President Bush is also planning to visit Beijing later this year, on November 19, after an Asian summit meet in South Korea. While President Bush plans his trip to China, the middle class in this country is under almost constant assault. Multinational corporations have come to see America workers as little more than costly human capital when compared with $2 and $3-an-hour cheap foreign labor. The shortsighted managers are dismantling the building blocks of the most successful consumer market in the history of the world, all for the quick profit of cheap workers halfway around the world.
Christine Romans reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Almost a century ago, Henry Ford doubled his workers' salaries so the men on the assembly line could afford the automobiles they made. That theory helped build the strongest middle class in the world. But today, American business views its workers as liabilities, not assets, and instead is tearing down American jobs and building a middle class in China.
RICHARD TRUMKA, SECRETARY-TREASURER, AFL-CIO: Sixty percent of the products that come in from China are made by U.S. companies that have closed factories down here and relocated them to China.
ROMANS: And it looks like they've only just begun. Rick Wagoner, the CEO of General Motors...
RICHARD WAGONER, CHAIRMAN & CEO, GENERAL MOTORS: I would say we tend to have a very -- still very heavy sourcing footprint in the U.S., much more than most of our competitors do, and we're going to have to go back and review that.
ROMANS: Sourcing footprint, a euphemism for American plants and American workers. GM is slashing 25,000 jobs here, cutting health benefits, and promising to create jobs overseas.
And Delphi CEO Steve Miller says human capital in this country costs too much. Got a problem with that? He says make sure you send your kids to college.
He wants to slash Delphi's American pay to $10 or $12 an hour. That's less than $21,000 a year. Try sending a kid to college on that.
JOSH BIVENS, ECONOMIC POLICY INSTITUTE: It's asking its workers to take something like a 66 percent pay cut. Essentially, Delphi, the way lots of other companies have done, is using the global economy to sort of beat down its own wage costs.
ROMANS: And critics say almost three million American jobs have been sacrificed on the altar of this so-called global economy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: For those left at Delphi, they may get as little as $10 an hour. Many of these are experienced career industrial workers who will now make just about what a Wal-Mart worker earns, and will take home about $3,000 more than the average, say, fast food restaurant worker -- Lou. DOBBS: It's extraordinary. Christine, thank you very much. Christine Romans.
Delphi today said its top executives will take pay cuts after all. That comes less than a week after we reported here that CEO Steve Miller said this: "There is a market for manufacturing labor and we are paying triple for that labor. And there is a market for executives, and we are underpaying for it. And we are at risk at losing our management."
As I pointed out at the time, that management sent Delphi into bankruptcy. Miller has apparently had something of an awakening since making that statement last week. Today he announced his $1.5 million salary will be cut to a dollar. He also said, referring to Delphi's employees, "I just couldn't find a way to look them in the eye and tell them I should be paid a million-dollar salary."
Something of an awakening of conscience. Other Delphi executives are giving up between 10 and 20 percent of their salaries, it was announced today. That also begins in January.
Another assault on our middle class is the so-called bankruptcy reform law. It went into effect today. The result of that law is to deny millions of Americans relief from rising health care costs, rising energy prices and stagnant wages.
Lisa Sylvester reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LISA SYLVESTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Russell Clark does not have health insurance. He racked up $40,000 in medical bills. But this marketing job at a construction company, there was no way he could pay them off. So he, like tens of thousands of others, filed for bankruptcy ahead of the deadline. Now he's looking for a fresh start.
RUSSELL CLARK, MARYLAND RESIDENT: Basically being able to pay the bills back, you know, before I can get -- you know, be able to buy a house and get another car or anything like that, because my credit was shot because of it. So now at least I'll have a chance to start over.
SYLVESTER: Under the new law, people making more than the median state income will no longer be eligible to file under Chapter 7, a process that wiped out virtually all debts. Instead, they will have to file under Chapter 13, which requires some of the debt to be repaid.
Retailers and credit card companies say the new law cracks down on individuals who are abusing the system. But consumer groups say it takes away an important safety valve for middle class families.
TRAVIS PLUNKETT, CONSUMER FEDERATION OF AMERICA: For many families, unfortunately, what the new law means is that they'll be in a debtor's prison without walls. They'll be unable to pay off their debts, unable to clear them, and unable to get a fresh start.
That's not just bad for these families, it's also -- long term, it's bad for the economy.
SYLVESTER: If consumers are the losers, creditors, including retail giants, banks and mortgage companies, are the clear winners.
SAM ALBERTS, BANKRUPTCY ATTORNEY: You know, the joke has been that it's leave no creditor behind law, that a lot of creditors have gotten a very positive benefit from this. It makes it more difficult to discharge credit card debts, for example.
SYLVESTER: Studies show most people who file for bankruptcy are like Russell Clark, not abusing the system but forced to seek help after an illness or loss of a job or divorce.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SYLVESTER: And the number of filings hit new records in the last few days. The number usually averages about 6,000 a day nationwide. This past week, the average was more than 40,000 a day -- Lou.
DOBBS: Lisa, thank you very much.
That brings us to our poll question tonight. Do you believe Congress is ignoring the interests of our middle class, yes or no? Cast your vote at LouDobbs.com. We'll have the results here later in the broadcast.
Still ahead, a new tropical storm to keep an eye on for the Gulf Coast. Wilma getting bigger, building strength in the Caribbean. We'll have the latest for you next.
And bird flu. The bird flu tonight is on western Europe's doorstep, the latest country to be hit by this disease, potentially a world pandemic.
And the judges who refuse to judge. A troubling new trend in our nation's legal system. We'll have a special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Tropical Storm Wilma is gaining strength tonight in the Caribbean and could hit the Gulf Coast next week. Wilma is the 21st named storm of this record Atlantic hurricane season.
Wilma's expected to strengthen into a hurricane as soon as possibly tomorrow. On its current path, Wilma would hit Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula Friday and then head into the Gulf of Mexico. Forecasters say Wilma could then turn toward the hurricane-devastated Gulf Coast and could even possibly hit Florida.
In the town of Taunton, Massachusetts, tonight, days of torrential rains have caused a dam there to buckle, and it could collapse. That's the fear of authorities. Two thousand residents have been evacuated and are being evacuated because of fears the dam could break and flood neighborhoods. A flashflood advisory is already in effect in the entire area.
For the first time a case of avian flu has been found within the European Union. Greece today said tests on poultry have come back positive. Greece is the 16th country to confirm a case of avian flu.
Tonight, the crisis of morals and conscience in this country has extended into our legal system. A number of judges sworn to uphold our nation's laws are now refusing to hear cases that involve abortion. Their refusals have tremendous implications for our legal system, perhaps for our entire society.
Bill Tucker reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In this courthouse in Shelby County, Tennessee, there are judges refusing to hear cases involving teenagers and their requests for abortions. In turning down just such a case in June, Judge John McCarrell wrote that "I could not in good conscience be a part of that process."
The teenager was in court because the state of Tennessee requires a minor to have a parent's permission or to ask the court for permission to decide for themselves. According to one judge in the Shelby County Circuit Court, there are five of the nine judges on the bench now refusing to hear cases involving that law referred to as the "Bypass Law" because it allows minors to bypass parental consent.
NANCY MOORE, PROFESSOR, BOSTON UNIVERSITY: The message being sent to Tennessee voters is that any judge who sits on this case -- on this case must be someone who is either in favor of abortion or doesn't particularly care.
TUCKER: According to the Baldy Center for Law and Social Policy, judges in Alabama and Pennsylvania, as well as Tennessee, are now refusing to hear such cases and recusing themselves.
HELENA SILVERSTEIN, PROFESSOR, LAFAYETTE COLLEGE: There are many judges who do not handle these cases and who will say, "I just don't want to hear these cases. I'm not going to get into that in my county."
TUCKER: But it is not a judge's role to like or dislike a law, counter legal scholars. It's a legal argument fully embraced by another judge on the Shelby County Circuit Court.
JUDGE D'ARMY BAILY, SHELBY COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Judges are not legislators. And when it comes to this issue of judicial bypass, I didn't pass that law. It has nothing to do with what I think about abortions, about minors. But that's the law, and that's the constitutional right of the minor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCKER: Charles Fried, former justice of the Massachusetts Supreme Court and the former solicitor general to President Reagan, summed up the situation like, this, "If any judge has a problem upholding the law" -- Lou -- "they should resign."
DOBBS: This is extraordinary, and a very difficult issue which we're going to be following closely here. In their arguments they're recusing themselves because of a conflict, a moral conflict, as they do on a host of other issues. But this is a very difficult one because it is a matter of upholding the law.
Thank you very much. Bill Tucker.
Just ahead here, the Toledo riots. Police quickly canceled the neo-Nazi march that supposedly caused this weekend's riots. So why did the rioting go on for hours after that? Was it a race riot? The managing editor of the "Toledo Blade" is our guest here.
And then "Broken Borders." Immigration officials and local law enforcement failing to communicate about illegal aliens, dangerous illegal aliens committing crimes in this country. One member of Congress is trying to stop it. She's our guest here next.
And the wife of a well-known defense attorney brutally murdered in California. A news conference is now just minutes away. We'll have the very latest for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: My next guest is taking action trying to fight our nation's border crisis. Congresswoman Sue Myrick has introduced legislation that would mandate any illegal alien convicted of drunk driving be deported from this country immediately. Her bill is named after the late Scott Gardner, one of her constituents.
The 33-year-old North Carolina teacher was killed this summer by a drunk driver who was also an illegal alien. The same illegal alien was convicted of drunk driving numerous times before the fatal accident.
But state law enforcement was not required to notify immigration officials of the arrest and the charges. That would change under Congresswoman Myrick's legislation. She joins us tonight from Capitol Hill.
Congresswoman, let me ask you, just straightforwardly, what kind of reception are you having to this bill, and how absurd is that we even should at this stage need such legislation?
REP. SUE MYRICK (R), NORTH CAROLINA: Well, there is a huge interest on Capitol Hill for doing something about immigration. And it's way past due. And with our bill, simply, we're saying that local and state law enforcement would receive training, which there's money in homeland security to do, so they could understand the immigration law and help us, and also enter these names into a federal database. There's an FBI database and a Customs database. It's available, but they aren't being used by local and state law enforcement. That's part of the problem, the man who killed the illegal alien, who killed Scott Gardner, had four DWIs and nobody knew it. DOBBS: It's an extraordinary thing. It's mind-boggling that local law enforcement would not be aware of those convictions and that action would not be taken, irrespective of whether the person was an illegal alien or not.
MYRICK: Correct.
DOBBS: Now, you've moved forward with the 10k Run for the Border Act, in which you're going to put penalties on the demand size, that is raise fines for $10,000 for people who employ illegal aliens in this country. What do you think the prospects are for you to succeed with that legislation in Congress?
MYRICK: Well, I don't know, but we're sure going to do everything we can to succeed. Because 80 percent of that money, of the 10,000, is going to go back to the local law enforcement agency. So that will encourage them and give them the resources to do more.
And you know, we need grassroots help on this. I've actually created a Web site that's called securingourstate.com. And we encourage people to go on it for action items of the things that they can do something about, the people to contact on the national level and make a difference, because pressure has to be put to bear.
DOBBS: Why is it that our Congress, and congresswoman, I certainly -- I can appreciate it if you have difficulty with this question, because you are obviously representing your constituents on the issue of immigration. But why aren't our elected officials, particularly your colleagues in Congress, representing the working men and women of this country and their interests?
MYRICK: Well, actually, it's going to happen. We were supposed to deal with this in September. Our leadership has said it would be on the able. Katrina moved everything back. So we're doing it in November. We will have some tough immigration bills on the floor, and of course, I'm working hard to make sure these are part of it.
DOBBS: Congresswoman Myrick, we thank you very much for being with us.
MYRICK: You're welcome.
DOBBS: Congresswoman Sue Myrick.
Turning now to new concerns about our northern neighbor. As the United States battles a rising energy crisis or at least tries to, Canada is planning to export more of its oil, but not to the United States, rather to China. Canada is busy making new energy deals with communist China, as its trade relations with the United States in the view of the Canadians is worsening. Casey Wian reports.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CASEY WIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It wasn't a surprise earlier this year when socialist Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez threatened to cut off oil exports to the United States. But it is startling to hear the Canadian government threaten to send nearly half a million barrels of oil a day, not to its best customer, the U.S., instead to communist China.
Canada's Natural Resource Minister John McCallum visited Beijing this weekend. He said Canada used to be merely energetic about the idea of selling crude to China, but because of a long-running trade dispute with the United States over lumber, he says Canada is now superenergetic about dealing with China.
JOHN MCCALLUM, CANADIAN NATURAL RESOURCES MINISTER: I wouldn't say it's an effort to pressure the United States. What I would say it is in our national interest to latch onto this emerging super-economy that is China, to deepen our investment and trade relations in energy and in other things. But I must say that this dispute over softwood lumber with the United States intensifies that desire.
WIAN: Canada says it's abandoning polite diplomacy because the United States refuses to refund more than $4 billion in tariffs collected on Canadian lumber. Though a NAFTA panel recently ruled unanimously in Canada's favor, the Bush administration won't pay, saying Canada's lumber industry is government-subsidized. It's a big political issue in Canada, so the Canadians are squeezing the U.S. where it's most vulnerable, its dependence on foreign oil.
GARY HUFBAUER, INSTITUTE FOR INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS: All this kind of music about energy is the best thing that ministers in Canada seem to be able to think up to kind of sing, to show the Canadian public that they're concerned, they're not going to put up with this guff from the United States.
WIAN: Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin had what he calls a frank but apparently unproductive discussion with President Bush about the dispute last week. Martin says it raises questions about the integrity of the entire North American Free Trade Agreement.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WIAN: And the third party to that deal, Mexico, has taken sides with Canada, because Mexico has a long-running trade dispute with the United States over sugar. NAFTA was supposed to solve these bitter trade battles between the U.S. and its neighbors, but more than a decade later, it's clear that hasn't worked -- Lou.
DOBBS: Casey, a terrific report, but I don't think that we should let it escape the opportunity to be -- put this in some context, that is over $100 billion in trade deficits with our partners in NAFTA. They're posturing in this case, whether it be from Mexico and Canada, is pure bunk. They're making too much money to rattle too many sabers, and that's the bottom line here, isn't it?
WIAN: Absolutely. You know, this threat about selling oil to China, analysts say that that's not going to move the U.S., that's not going to change things in Canada, and we're going to see more of the same, growing trade deficits, because of the incredible demand that China has for these resources -- Lou. DOBBS: It would be, I'm sure, of some interest to our Canadian friends and our Mexican friends if we were to decide to balance our trade relationships as our trade partners strive to do.
Thank you, Casey Wian.
In Toledo, Ohio, arraignments today for dozens of people arrested in a riot over the weekend. The riot in Toledo began as members of a neo-Nazi group were about to march in a racially diverse neighborhood. Police quickly canceled the march, but the rioting continued for four hours. Rioters threw rocks at police, overturned cars and set fire to a building. Hundreds of people were involved; 114 of them were arrested.
I'm joined now by the managing editor of Toledo's newspaper, "The Toledo Blade," Kurt Franck. Kurt, do you think this rioting was really in response to the so-called -- let's call them what they are, not National Socialists, they're Nazis -- was it about gang involvement or something else?
KURT FRANCK, MANAGING EDITOR, "THE TOLEDO BLADE": I think it was a combination of a community that didn't want anybody to come into their neighborhood, and certainly it was triggered by the neo-Nazis. They have planned to march. They got what they wanted in many ways, because what they wanted was some attention and violence. So it was value added for them to come into this area. And once the violence started, albeit it went on for a while, it started about 11:50 in the morning on Saturday, and went on to 5:00. But when you get mobs of people, they start getting all stirred up, and this is what happened in this case.
DOBBS: A hate group like this, Kurt...
FRANCK: Sure.
DOBBS: ... a hate group like this, the great thing about America is everybody has their right to express themselves. But a hate group like this...
FRANCK: Sure, sure.
DOBBS: ... in Toledo, in a neighborhood in which you have other issues, you know, we're using the word socially diverse euphemistically. This is a highly charged political atmosphere in your city, and gangs coming out in full colors, according to your chief of police...
FRANCK: Yes, yes, they did.
DOBBS: ... who said this was not a police problem, it's a city problem, a social problem. Is that -- do you agree?
FRANCK: It's a social problem, it's a class problem. I don't think it's as much as racial as it is class and poverty issue that's going on in cities like this across the country. This could be Toledo; it could be other cities as well. There was a gang issue, and the problem that happened, that I see it from my vantage point is you had members out there among the mob, many of them gang members, who got on their cell phone and said, come and join us and take part in this activity.
DOBBS: And we should point out...
FRANCK: And keep in mind one thing, keep in mind, one thing, Lou...
DOBBS: Sure.
FRANCK: This was -- we're talking about a mile area, six-block area. This was not a total burn down the city of Toledo. This was a neighborhood. It was a riot, but it was spurred by the Nazis, and they got what they wanted, and more so.
DOBBS: These Nazis were not from the community, were they?
FRANCK: No, they were not. They were from a group -- the whole thing was spurred by some activity that had gone in the neighborhood. One black person and a white person, and then generated a little bit more by the gang group who also wanted to get involved.
Now, the city has an issue to deal with, and they're trying to rebuild it, and rebuild -- behind me, you can see a gas station that was looted. There were a couple of other buildings that were looted. And one bar was burned down with an apartment on top. It was a real serious issue.
DOBBS: So it's a real serious issue, obviously. And it's a city with significant employment problems, problems that are shared by many communities.
FRANCK: Sure, many communities this size.
DOBBS: But to put this in some context as well, we need to add that many, if not most of those injured, were Toledo police officers. It leads...
FRANCK: Yes, 14 police officers. Two of our photographers were also injured, too.
DOBBS: And the injuries were to the community. It is a mindless response...
FRANCK: Absolutely.
DOBBS: ... to a hate group who is the focus of this reaction for them to -- you know, it's ineffable to express -- it's just impossible to say how absurd that is and how destructive.
FRANCK: You're right when you say it is a major scar and a wound to Toledo, Ohio. This is a community now throughout the area that is shaken by this, and they want to get things back in order. Keep in mind, it ended around 5:00 or 5:30. There's been no violence since then. So things are back in check. But there are some wounds and some scars that need to be solved and healed.
DOBBS: And we wish you and everyone in the city of Toledo the best as you begin that process.
FRANCK: Thank you. Thank you very much.
DOBBS: Thank you very much, Kurt Franck of the "Toledo Blade".
FRANCK: Thanks for having me.
DOBBS: Coming up next, a shake-up at the CIA. Will if in fact improve our national security? I'll be talking with the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Jay Rockefeller. He's our guest here next.
Also the creators of Jibjab, their latest on online parody targeting big box retailers, Chinese trade, the decline of America's middle class and other absolutely wonderful job that your government is doing for you. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: In the midst of all our troubles in this country, violent crime in the United States is continuing to decline. Good news! The FBI announced today that the violent crime rate in this country fell more than 2 percent last year, continuing what has been a decade long plunge in the rate of violent crime. Experts say the declining crime rate can be contributed to an aging population and harsher punishments for criminals.
Workers at the Department of Homeland Security have the lowest morale of any federal government agency. According to a just released survey. The survey was carried out by the office of personnel management last year before the widespread criticism of the federal government's slow response to Hurricane Katrina. Tonight, a Homeland Security spokesman tells us the results of this survey reflects the challenge of integrating 22 different government agencies into the DHS.
The CIA will be in charge of all U.S. spying overseas in one of this country's biggest intelligence shake-ups. A long serving CIA officer will be the director of a new national clandestine service. CIA director Porter Goss. The service will coordinate spies from the Defense Department and the FBI as well as the CIA.
Joining me now, the vice chairman of Senate Intelligence Committee, Senator Jay Rockefeller. Senator, good to have you here.
SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER, (D) WEST VIRGINIA: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Is this more shuffling of chairs or is this in point of fact a substantive decision made by Director Negroponte?
ROCKEFELLER: It is a profoundly substantive movement made by Director Negroponte.
Look, a lot of us worked very, very hard to get the Director of National Intelligence in place to be sort of the general manager -- general of intelligence. And he has now specifically said directed, that he wants the CIA to be in charge on a functional basis of all human intelligence, that's the collection of intelligence from folks overseas. I think that's exactly the right decision.
DOBBS: Some critics have suggested that the CIA being in charge of human intelligence means that Donald Rumsfeld who has just about 70 percent of the intelligence budget over at the Department of Defense is losing control of a substantial part of his department. What's the truth?
ROCKEFELLER: He has control of his department. But frankly, thanks to the president, he lost control of 80 percent of the intelligence budget including his department, six or seven months ago.
DOBBS: Right.
ROCKEFELLER: There's basically the CIA, the Defense Department and the FBI, which collect human intelligence. And CIA is the one to be in charge of it, which, hence the new national clandestine service.
DOBBS: And, of course, in the wake of all of the 9/11 commission, all of the investigations, including, by your committee, the result of all of that assessment of the intelligence leading up to September 11 and the failures, and there were many as you and your committee have established, no one has been fired, no one will be fired. There will be no one held accountable for those obvious intelligence failures. How do you feel about that?
ROCKEFELLER: I regret that. , But let me tell you, Lou, very honestly, that I have spent a lot of time overseas visiting our folks associated with the agency there. There is such a world of difference between them and the extraordinary work they do. The extraordinary intensity they have and the backbiting that goes on here in Washington.
A national clandestine service in which the CIA has not only the functional control of its own human intelligence collection, but cooperation with the Defense Department and the FBI is the right solution.
DOBBS: George Tenet, former CIA director, and Porter Goss, the current CIA director, later confirming his statement. Tenet said five years to create an effective covert service, clandestine service. Are we still on about roughly that time schedule?
ROCKEFELLER: It takes five to eight years, including the language and experience and trade craft training. It's very, very hard. Intelligence does not move quickly, but at least on the right glide path. It makes sense. There will be a lot of people who criticize it as another layer of bureaucracy. But, in fact it's the right way to do human intelligence. Put CIA in charge of it just like the National Security Agency is in charge of listening. And the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency is in charge of imagery. It's the right solution, it really is.
DOBBS: It's reassuring hearing it from you. Senator Jay Rockefeller, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Thank you, sir.
ROCKEFELLER: Thank you, Lou.
DOBBS: Still ahead, online satirists, Jibjab.com taking a jab at Wal-Mart, big box retailers and the state of our economy. We will be featuring Jibjab's latest movie. We'll be talking with the Jibjab founders here next. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: The online satirists JibJab are back with a new animated commentary, a devastating hilarious look at state of our nation's economy if we can put those two expressions together.
JibJab achieved fame with their 2004 presidential campaign satire, "This Land." They then created the animated shorts "Good to be in D.C.," "Second Term" and more than a dozen others.
Their new piece is called "Big Box Mart." It shows how major retailers are helping out the middle class. It's an issue familiar to all the viewers of this broadcast, of course, and we thought you might like to see it in its entirety, so here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Oh, it starts with sweatshop labor in a foreign factory and gets packed on a vessel and shipped over the sea. It's loaded onto trailers and it's spread across the map.
Big Box Mart is the place I go to buy all of my crap.
Oh, Big Box Mart what do you have for me? Because the shopping carts are empty and we're on a shopping spree. I come to the Big Box Mart because I do have lots of needs and they sell crap the cheapest with their discounts guaranteed.
When I'm walking through the aisles it's like I'm hypnotized with a wallet full of credit cards I never leave deprived.
Oh, Big Box Mart thank you for serving me. My house is full of crap now and it used to be empty.
And next day at the factory, the news was very grim. My job was being out sourced to the slums of East Beijing. Management was re- running the company's whole chart. They got to make crap cheap enough to sell to Big Box Mart.
Oh, Big Box Mart look what you've done to me. He's got to start all over at age of 53. I still go to Big Box Mart. Yes, I'm there most all the time. These days you'll likely find me sweeping aisle number nine.
My dreams of our retirement have gone up in a blaze and I'll be scrubbing toilets till they stick me in the grave.
Oh, Big Box Mart what have you sold to me? We used to be your customers, now we're your employees.
Oh, Big Box Mart my paycheck reminds me, your every day low prices have a price, they aren't free.
Paper or plastic?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DOBBS: Joining us now, the creators of JibJab, brothers Evan and Greg Spiridellis.
Let me turn to you first, Greg. This issue obviously important us, it is such an important and profound social issue, this business practice that we consider extraordinarily wrong headed. You have been provocative here and at the same time made us laugh, I think that makes you guys geniuses, what's been the reaction?
GREG SPIRIDELLIS, CO-CREATOR, "JIBJAB": Wow, thank you. The reaction has been phenomenal. You know, it's -- our web servers were crashing all day Friday. We finally stabilized them. But, this piece is traveling just like the election pieces did.
And thanks to the Internet, two independent creators can put their work out there and get audiences. And thanks for having us here.
DOBBS: Well, it's a delight to have you with us. And you're focusing on important issues, you're doing so with balance, I must say. I was struck by Wal-Mart's response to what is a devastating piece of satire.
They said, talking about you all, they said we stand up for them. Given JibJab's history of poking fun at all sides, we look forward to the sequel that lampoons Wal-Mart's critics, which I think is about as a humane expression as I've heard from Wal-Mart in some time.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Probably.
DOBBS: Are you planning to lampoon Wal-Mart's critics?
EVAN SPIRIDELLIS, CO-CREATOR, "JIBJAB": I don't know if a cartoon about Wal-Mart's critics would travel as far as...
G. SPIRIDELLIS: ...as this one.
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Yes.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: But, we did try to be balanced and bring the perspective of the small and medium business owner in as well. Saying, you know, look you just can't produce, you know, products inexpensively enough to sell at the prices that you get in these retail chains. E. SPIRIDELLIS: And I think this piece isn't about any one company in particular, it's about globalization, and it's a bit broader than any one in particular company.
DOBBS: Yes, I must tell you, as this broadcast has worked diligently along to report on this issue, which is complex and difficult, you have done just a masterful job of capturing the concepts, the issues and the pain of what is taking place under the rubric globalization as one could possibly hope to accomplish.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Well, thank you.
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Thank you.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: That's quite an honor. We appreciate that. We're creatively inspired by these really thorny issues. You know, in the election it was a political dialogue, and here, it's just the economics of, you know, American consumerism and retailing and globalization.
DOBBS: Now, I often say here that we're dedicated to a nonpartisan reality. Our job, and we work hard to see the world through clear eyes, not veiled by a partisan view, left or right, Republican or Democrat. What is your -- what is your view, your editorial point of view?
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Our editorial point of view is to just tackle issues that inspire us, that are big issues, and hopefully make people laugh. And if we can make them think at the same time, that's great. But to really not come at it with any personal political agenda.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Or partisan point of view. And it's interesting to us that this, you know, people try to make this a partisan issue, it's not partisan, you know. It affects everybody and it's not one party over the other.
DOBBS: Greg, Evan, you're both so -- we couldn't agree with you more. Greg and Evan Spiridellis, we thank you very much. JIBJAB.COM.
G. SPIRIDELLIS: Thank you Lou.
E. SPIRIDELLIS: Thank you so much.
DOBBS: Eat up their servers.
Still ahead, the results of our poll tonight and we'll have a preview as best we can of what's coming tomorrow. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DOBBS: Now, the results of our poll tonight and the results are overwhelming. Ninety-eight percent of you say Congress is ignoring the interests of our middle class.
We thank you for being with us tonight. Please join us here tomorrow. Our guests tomorrow evening include two Americans unwittingly hired to train non-English speaking workers who are now hired to rebuild in the Gulf Coast. Their story just part of what is rising outrage at the White House for its waiver of the Davis Bacon Act and the waiver of the requirements for documentation.
Please join us. For all of us here thanks for being with us tonight. Good night from New York. "Anderson Cooper 360" starts now -- Anderson?
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