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Nancy Grace
Defense Attorney Daniel Horowitz`s Wife Found Murdered in Their California Home
Aired October 17, 2005 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news, the wife of prominent defense attorney Daniel Horowitz found dead at the couple`s California home this past weekend, a homicide investigation under way. And the judge declares a mistrial in the high-profile Susan Polk murder case that Daniel Horowitz was working on.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. Tonight, we go live to Aruba for the Natalee Holloway missing girl case. The 18-year-old Alabama beauty`s parents head back to Aruba with a special search team. They are not giving up.
But first, breaking news. The wife of this program`s good friend and colleague, prominent defense attorney Daniel Horowitz, found murdered this weekend at the couple`s San Francisco area home. Nancy Grace, a close personal friend of Daniel`s, had this to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, CNN/COURT TV: Right now, I am headed to deliver a speech on the plight of violent crime victims, and that plight takes on a whole new meaning tonight as one of our own, Daniel Horowitz, has become a victim of violent crime. As you learned, as I did, this weekend, Daniel`s wife, Pamela Vitale, was murdered in their home, bludgeoned to death while Daniel was out working, working on a case we discussed right here Friday night, the murder trial of Susan Polk. He came home to the most grisly discovery possible, the murder of his only family member.
A lot of fingers are being pointed right now. As I head to California following the speech, I hope to learn the facts surrounding the murder of Pamela Vitale and bring them to you tomorrow night here on Headline News. I don`t know all those facts yet, but one thing I do know. Although I argue vociferously with Horowitz on every point of law, with all of our hearts, he is one of the most gentle people I have ever met. So I hope that, like me, your prayers and thoughts go out to Horowitz and his family tonight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Nancy Grace, on a very painful subject for her and for all of us who know and respect Daniel Horowitz.
With us tonight, "Inside Edition`s" Jim Moret. Jim, I know this is as difficult for you as it is for me because you and I both spent time, a lot of time, with Dan Horowitz at the Michael Jackson trial in court, and he was always an upstanding, generous, kind individual, and of course, a top- flight lawyer.
That said, there are a lot of developments today. What`s the very latest?
JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": There are a lot of developments. There was a news conference that wrapped up just a little over an hour ago, the Contra Costa County sheriff`s department saying that this investigation is, in essence, wide open. And they criticized a misleading and false report earlier today by another network, where it was reported that an arrest was imminent or that someone was taken into custody. Sheriff`s department has said no one has been taken into custody. And again, this is considered a wide open investigation.
One thing that was revealed was the way that Pamela, Daniel`s wife, was found killed. She was bludgeoned or beaten to death, blunt force trauma to the head. Daniel discovered his wife`s body just before 6:00 o`clock on Saturday. As you indicated earlier, he was working on the Polk case. That was one of a number of cases that he was working on. And he was readying the second week of that case. The case began just last Tuesday. And by all accounts -- by the defense count, at least -- it was going rather well for them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Jim, as you mentioned, sheriff`s investigators just wrapped up a news conference. Let`s hear a little bit of what they had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY LEE, CONTRA COSTA SHERIFF`S DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: So far, we have interviewed dozens of people. We have interviewed Mr. Daniel Horowitz. He has been very cooperative. We`ve also interviewed Mr. Joseph Lynch (ph). He has been very cooperative. We`re looking to interview many more people. We have talked to all of the neighbors. And again, it`s standard in a case like this, we try to talk to as many people as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim Moret, what can you tell us about this Joseph Lynch, apparently, a neighbor on the property?
MORET: Joseph Lynch was a person of interest, certainly by media reports earlier today, because there was a great deal of paperwork filed on this individual, some of that paperwork filed by Daniel Horowitz himself. This is an individual who apparently sold Daniel and his wife the piece of property they were building their home on, that you see there. And he was allowed to remain on the property, to live on that property as a caretaker for next 10 years.
But both Daniel and his wife and at least one other neighbor of that area had filed a request for a temporary injunction, a restraining order against this individual because of what they called violent and unpredictable behavior. So there was clearly at least one point -- this happened back in June -- a period of time when they were fearful for their safety. But as you heard, this person has not been identified as a suspect. The police have indicated that they have interviewed this person, and so far, he has been cooperative.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: In fact, he told the Associated Press just a little while ago that he`s known Horowitz for more than a decade, that they had -- he, in fact, admits that they had clashed at times. He says the latest incident involved Lynch`s attack dog, which he said lunged at Horowitz. And police were called, and Lynch said he got rid of the dog. And he said he was there on the -- on the day that Vitale`s body was found. He was on the property, spent the day walking with his German shepherd and was building a door for the dog when he heard sirens wailing and tires squealing. And he said he then began getting calls from concerned neighbors.
But once again, this man not considered a suspect. CNN called him. He said, I had nothing to do with it, and the authorities saying this is a wide open investigation.
And with that, I`d like to go to Steve Mendelson, a friend of Pamela Vitale`s, a friend of Daniel Horowitz. I have to tell you, I spoke to Daniel Horowitz several times today. I told him that this was one of the most awkward things for me professionally that I`ve ever done. I sat next to Dan at the Jackson trial. He was always generous and kind, truly generous with his information, helping me when I had legal questions, e- mailing me. And I told him, I said, This is so difficult, and please understand that I will do my very best to cover this case and cover the story with the respect that it deserves. So that being said, I will do my best. And it is awkward, I think, for all of us who know and love Daniel.
What is he going through tonight?
STEVE MENDELSON, FRIEND OF PAMELA VITALE AND DANIEL HOROWITZ: A lot of anguish. They had a relationship that was closer than anybody that I know. They loved each other tremendously. And in some senses, she was all the meaning in his life, and it`s been taken from him. Dan will find his way. He will find meaning afterwards. But right now, he`s going through tremendous hardship.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I spoke with him, as I mentioned, and he was absolutely amazing on the phone. As he broke up, as he cried, as he told me stories about his wife, he also said, Hey, I understand, Jane, that you`ve got to call and ask questions. And I understand the police are doing their job. And I`m not calling them. I`m not bugging them. I`m letting them do their job, and I am cooperating with them.
Give us a sense of what happened to Dan Horowitz that day, the day that he ultimately came home on Saturday and found his wife dead on the floor.
MENDELSON: Well, as is often typical of Dan, he works on big cases, or any case that`s going to trial, on the weekends because he wants to be well prepared and he wants to know everything about the case. And he was doing that, and he came home and -- it was -- he was unbelievably overwhelmed. He was destroyed. His world collapsed around him. And he then -- he called close friends and then called the police.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Psychotherapist Robi Ludwig, what can you say that might give us an insight into what this man is going through right now? I have to tell you, I`ve -- I`ve never dreaded making a phone call more than I did, to have to ask him questions as a reporter. This is a man I sat next to, who was so sweet and kind to me, who did interviews for me when nobody else would because they didn`t have the time. And I have to sit there and say, Daniel, I have to call you about this tragedy that you`re enduring. And he was filled with stories about his wife, what a loving person she was.
What is he -- how does he cope right now?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I`m sure he`s in absolute shock because what has happened has not sunk in yet. How can it happen? And it sounds like that`s helping him function both as a professional and also to be one of the people who`s involved in this case intimately. So he`s operating with you, as he would -- he understands on an intellectual level he has to answer questions, he has to be available to the police. But also, he`s grieving because when you`re in a very loving relationship, your spouse is your foundation. And when that`s lost, it takes time to regroup.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I couldn`t believe that he had the wherewithal to actually, through his tears, answer my questions, because he is the consummate professional. He told me a story, and I promised that I would relay it tonight. He said that while he was sitting there, he was looking at the man his wife had saved. This was the man who built their house, the house that you`re looking at, that beautiful house that was their dream house that they were in the process of building.
And he said that his wife, the murdered woman, Pamela Vitale, stopped working on the Polk case, stopped working on the home when the man who was building the home started getting headaches, and she didn`t think that they were just headaches. And the doctors, she said, weren`t doing the right thing, and she just abandoned everything and started working to save this man`s life, got him transferred, thinking, absolutely, doing the research, it had to be a viral infection of some sort. The doctors later confirmed that she was right.
And then Dan Horowitz broke down and started crying and said, I`m standing here, holding hands with a man my wife saved, only to find out that she herself was murdered, as they were constructing that house.
LUDWIG: Life is so ironic. But in everything we hear about this woman, she`s incredibly together, and it sounds like she was able to take control of very difficult and complicated situations with ease and grace.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ann Bremner, you also a friend of Dan Horowitz. We all were at the Jackson trial together. We all sat next to each other. What are your thoughts on what he`s going through? And then this added twist of the case that he was working on, the case he was fighting so much for, this woman, Susan Polk -- now there`s a mistrial in that case.
ANNE BREMNER, TRIAL ATTORNEY: Jane, we al love Daniel. He`s such a gentle, gracious man, and it`s so surreal to be on the air with you and with Jim, with all the time that we spent with Daniel. Even early morning TV, at 4:00 in the morning, 5:00, he`d be out with all the fans, getting to know them and trying to get a seat in court, just a prince of a man. And for this to happen to him is so horrible, to be -- like Nancy said, for him to be a crime victim. He`s such a friend of this program and a friend of all of ours.
And then to be within a murder trial that he is so passionate about -- he`s been e-mailing me about it. I`ve been on the air with him on this, and he even links me on his Web site, I link him. He`s such a loyal, wonderful friend and such a consummate professional, like you said. I just can`t imagine anything worse, and my heart goes out to him. All of our thoughts and prayers are with Daniel.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I want to ask you a little bit more about the Polk case, but first let`s hear what the sheriff`s department spokesperson said about how she died.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: The autopsy of Pamela Vitale took place this morning, started at about 9:30. That procedure lasted about three-and-a-half hours. The cause of death -- - the cause of death is listed as blunt force trauma to the head. The manner of death is listed as homicide.
This morning, there were a large number of rumors and misinformation floating around out there. I want to clarify some things. As far as the investigation goes, no one is under arrest. We have nobody in custody right now. This is still a wide open investigation. We are looking at all possible theories and motives. We`re not focused in one area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now let`s go to Eleanor Dixon, prosecutor. When you hear those awful words, "blunt force trauma to the head," what does that say about how this woman died?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, she died, certainly, a very painful death. But what I else I think about is the fact that the defendant, the person who killed her, had to get pretty close to cause that type of injury. That`s very brutal when you`re talking the head, blunt force trauma, and you wonder what kind of weapon was used. And sometimes you`re able to tell through the autopsy what types of weapon. It could be anything from a rock, a large rock, it could be a hammer, it could be an object in the home.
But what I`m also hopeful with is because of person would have had to get pretty close to her, that there is some type of evidence that the person left behind -- fibers, hair, anything. So I`m very hopeful about that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Steve Mendelson, as a friend of Dan Horowitz, do you feel that DNA, perhaps under the fingernails, in some way, shape or form might crack this case? And when would we get that information?
MENDELSON: I don`t know. I`m not a mind reader. But yes, DNA is important information potentially in this case, in any kind of hand-to-hand combat case. Pamela was about 5 feet, 10 inches tall and athletic and strong, and she would put up a tremendous fight. So there`s very good chance there`s some evidence like that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Thank you.
To tonight`s "Trial Tracking." As we have been mentioning, mistrial declared in case of Susan Polk, who is accused of killing her husband, Felix. The two met she was just a teen and he was her shrink. The trial is set to turn into an ugly family trauma. One of the Polk boys was set to testify against his mother, the other to take the stand on her behalf. Susan Polk was represented by Daniel Horowitz, whose wife`s tragic murder we are discussing tonight.
Stay with us. We have a lot more on this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN POLK, CHARGED WITH HUSBAND`S MURDER: (INAUDIBLE) in his groin (ph), and at the same time, I reached up for the knife. And his hand loosened, and I pulled it out. I said, Stop, I have the knife. And he didn`t stop, and I stabbed him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEAN JOHNSON, DANIEL HOROWITZ`S FRIEND, FORMER PROSECUTOR: They loved each other with all their hearts. Pamela was Daniel`s wife, but more than that, she was obviously his best friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The question of the night, the question we are all wondering, Who killed Pamela Vitale and why? And obviously, DNA could play a very, very key role here because the autopsy was completed today -- but let me ask this question of defense attorney Richard Herman. You`ve covered a lot of cases like this, where DNA plays a role. As a lay person, I don`t really know. When they finish the autopsy, they give certain information, like cause of death, but they don`t have all that DNA evidence back. And when they get that DNA evidence back, they might have the answer to the question that we`ve been asking, Who killed Pamela Vitale?
RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: May very well, Jane. And sometimes, it takes one, two, three weeks to get the results of that DNA testing. But what I`m told here -- good news -- is that the crime scene was secured immediately. They have over 20 detectives investigating this case. It`s absolutely outrageous, and my heart goes out to Daniel on this one.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, all of us. Just this past Friday night, I was on this show with Nancy Grace and Daniel. Let`s hear what Daniel had to say about the Polk case at that time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I think it`s the 22 stab wounds that is probably going to get to the jury.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, SUSAN POLK`S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Five stab wounds, Nancy. Why are they exaggerating and trying to make it more, if she really did what they said? It`s because it`s defensive on her part, and they need to make her into a crazed woman instead of what she was, a victim who survived.
GRACE: Daniel! Daniel! Did she have a single knife wound?
HOROWITZ: No. And Nancy...
GRACE: OK. That`s all I wanted to know.
HOROWITZ: ... let me tell you, we always feel bad when women are victims. When they`re dead, we mourn them. But when women survive, it`s always, How could a woman win? That`s what I`m just...
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, that`s not what I`m asking...
HOROWITZ: ... you have the right to self-defense.
GRACE: That`s not what I`m asking, Daniel. I just want truth and justice to win out in this case. And you know what? Maybe you`re right.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Jim Moret, a very odd fact is that only a few miles from this murder scene of Pamela Vitale is the home where Felix Polk was murdered. And apparently, on the same day that Pamela`s body was discovered, there was an attempted burglary at the Polk home. Is there any significance that we know of to that?
MORET: Well, you have to understand that with respect to the Polk home, there have been a number of Looky Lous. That address has been in the public for some time, and obviously, it`s gaining a great deal of attention with the trial starting. There`s no indication, at this point, that those two events are related in any way whatsoever.
But when you talk about this case, what is interesting is that Ivan Gold (ph), who is Daniel`s partner on the Polk trial, made a statement on behalf of Daniel today, praising the sheriff`s department, thanking them for all of their efforts. And it is interesting how one of the areas of defense in the Polk case was actually attacking some of the police procedures that occurred in the Polk trial.
But clearly, again, I want to reiterate to you, Daniel is a believer in this particular case. He believes in his client`s innocence. And my heart breaks for him, as all of ours do for him, as a colleague and as a friend.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: They absolutely do, Jim. I couldn`t have said it better. These two cases, by the way, intertwined like this, the Polk case and this case, in terms of the complexity. We`re going to talk more about that in a moment. We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any motive or method of murder you can talk about?
MIKE FISHER, LAFAYETTE POLICE CHIEF: I can`t get into that right now. It`s a little premature for me to talk about that. I can tell you it was a violent death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: We had police officers respond to the scene. They arrived. They found a deceased 52-year-old female at that location. We do have our homicide investigators on scene right now, and we are treating this case as a homicide.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The investigation into Pamela Vitale`s death a wide open investigation. No arrests made. No suspects. They are not looking in any one area.
Let`s go out now to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent. In another kind of surreal twist, you also, Ted, were covering the Jackson case with Daniel Horowitz, along with me, Jim Moret, Ann Bremner. We all worked together, and we all love Daniel Horowitz so much as a friend and colleague.
What can you tell us about what`s going on there in terms of the investigation?
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I`ll tell you, you know, we all thought that maybe it was going one way today, but clearly today, after the press conference this afternoon, investigators are saying, Whoa, we are looking at a lot of different people. We want to talk to a lot of different people. They`re waiting for physical evidence.
I think once they get results from the physical evidence that was collected from the house, that that will be when they get real clues and may pull the trigger on any arrests that they may have intending. But they`re telling us is they want to talk to a lot more people. And basically, they`re saying, Whoa, we may be on to something, we may not be, we`re not telling you, but we`re not making arrests any time soon. That`s what they did today after a lot of speculation that one was coming.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And they mentioned the name Joe Lynch. And again, we have to stress there are no suspects in this case. He is not considered a suspect at this time. He has told CNN he has nothing to do with any of this, although he was on the property at the time. What do you know about Joe Lynch?
ROWLANDS: Well, we know about the restraining order that was sought by Horowitz, which took care of not only Horowitz but his wife, against Lynch. I talked to Lynch on the phone this afternoon, and he said -- when I said, you know, People are pointing at you, what do you think? He said, I don`t -- it doesn`t matter to me. I don`t care. And then I said, Well, did you have anything to do with this? And he said, No, that is totally ridiculous. I had nothing to do with it.
The temporary restraining order that was sought after depicts him as someone who`s going through problems with drug and alcohol and has been threatening, not only the Horowitzes, but neighbors, as well. So obviously, it`s going to be factored in, would be in any investigation. But today, authorities again pulled back and said, We`re not ready to pull the trigger on anything, and Mr. Lynch has been nothing but cooperative.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, Ted. Thank you. and I know this must be difficult for you, as well, to cover the story, all of us, again, knowing Daniel Horowitz as we do.
We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help in our own way solve unsolved homicides, find missing people. Tonight, take a look at 61-year-old Audas Smith. He was shot twice July 4, 2001, outside of his Cleburne, Texas, home. If you have any information on Audas Smith, please, we urge you, call the Carole Sund Carrington Foundation toll-free. The number`s right there on your screen, 1-888-813-8389. Please help us solve this case.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi there, I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."
A U.N. official says it`s a race against time to get relief supplies to victims of the South Asia earthquake. Millions of now homeless people around the Kashmir, Pakistan, region could get hypothermia if temperatures there drop below freezing.
Six current and former Texas Supreme Court justices joined President Bush today to endorse his nominee to the U.S. Supreme Court, Harriet Miers. The administration is still trying to win over many skeptical Republicans, as well as key Democrat leaders, on the nomination. Senate Republicans want to start and finish confirmation hearings for Miers by next month.
And the nation`s crime rate is dropping again. New FBI figures show all major categories of violent crime, including murders and assaults, fell in 2004. It continues a decade-long downward trend. Forcible rape was the only crime that increased.
That`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY LEE, CONTRA COSTA SHERIFF`S SPOKESPERSON: We do have a tip line established. If you guys can help us get that number out, that tip line is 1-866-846-3592. Callers who call this tip line will remain anonymous. They can leave a message. And one of our detectives will call that person back and talk to that person. Once again, that tip line is 1-866-846-3592.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace. Again, this is a wide-open case and authorities are urging you to call that tip line if you any information that could lead to who killed Pamela Vitale.
Her husband, Daniel Horowitz, the lead defense counsel of Susan Polk, who was accused of murdering her psychologist husband. Now a mistrial declared in that case. What a ripple effect.
Ted Rowlands, what happens next in the Polk case?
ROWLANDS: Well, they sent the jury home today, and they`ll start from scratch on December 2nd. They`re going to have a charging date. And at that point, they`ll figure out when they want to start this new trial. But they`ll have to start from scratch.
According to Daniel Horowitz`s co-counsel, Daniel Horowitz is going to be involved in the Polk trial, once it gets resumed again. But, you know, you think about a jury who`s already gotten to know the attorneys. They`re not sequestered.
Over the weekend, this was a huge story in the San Francisco Bay Area. Ultimately, I`m sure some, if not all, of those jurors heard about what happened to Daniel`s wife. So clearly, probably a good decision by the judge to declare a mistrial, not only giving him a chance to mourn his wife, but also, quite frankly, probably the deck wasn`t stacked properly for that trial to keep going.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. And Anne Bremner, there were many, many reasons, constitutional and otherwise, why the judge pretty much had to declare a mistrial in this case.
BREMNER: Absolutely, Jane. It had only been in trial for a week. And so a continuance couldn`t be had. And the judge had to declare the mistrial, although I had heard that Daniel`s law partner said that Daniel would be in court today.
And that`s very much like Daniel, that he would look out for his client before he would take care of himself. But a mistrial was the only option for this judge.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Robi Ludwig, what`s very interesting is that Susan Polk, apparently, according to published reports, broke down and cried as the mistrial was declared today. Her apparently emotions stemmed from bonding with Pamela Vitale, who had been involved in case, along with her husband, but also the frustration for her of having to start from scratch again.
LUDWIG: Absolutely. I`m sure self-interest, who`s going to protect her and take care of her now? Will she be forgotten, since Daniel Horowitz obviously will be thinking about other things, his wife, et cetera? And also wondering if another man will abandon her and neglect her, since she seems to be inclined to experience men that way anyway.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Eleanor Dixon, a prosecutor. We`ve been talking about how this is a wide-open case, the murder of Pamela Vitale. Is there any way we can exclude that there is some kind of connection, however crazy or irrational, to the Polk case?
We`ve been talking about the fact that there was this bizarre coincidence, if it is a coincidence, that there was apparently an attempted burglary at the Polk home, which is only about seven minutes away from the Horowitz home, around the same time as Pamela Vitale was murdered.
DIXON: Well, you can`t rule out anything, because stranger things have happened. And we see a lot of strange things in prosecution, so you can`t rule it out.
And I think it`s wise that the police at this point, that the authorities, they have cast a wide net, and they`re leaving no stone unturned. And I think they do need to look at it. And they probably are. And I`m sure, of course, we`re not hearing the whole story yet.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Steve Mendelson, a friend of Pamela Vitale`s and Daniel Horowitz, you know a lot about the cases that Dan Horowitz has covered in the past. He`s dealt with a lot of defendants who are serious criminals. Can we get any sense of whether authorities are looking into those past cases to see if there might be a connection?
MENDELSON: I`m not aware of any such activities on behalf of the sheriff`s department. I haven`t specifically discussed it with Dan.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, tell us about some of these cases. I mean, you know Dan Horowitz. You know about his history. He`s covered some death penalty cases. What are some of his most prominent cases in the past?
MENDELSON: I`ll tell you a story about a case that led Dan to meet Pamela. Dan and I tried a case involving a woman who was raped by a police officer, perhaps in the course and scope of his duties. Ultimately it was found to be within the course and scope of his duties. And we achieved a sizable award for her.
Pamela came up from L.A., where she was working in the television movie industry, to interview Dan about this very case. She came. They started the interview, and they were together, talking for -- until early hours of morning. And that was the start of their romance.
A book, a movie, a TV movie did not come out of the underlying story, but a great romance did.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, you know, one of the frustrating things, I think, Jim Moret, about this case, is that there are so many possible ways for investigators to go. You`ve got the Polk case. You`ve got neighbors and issues with neighbors. You`ve got all these past cases that Daniel Horowitz, famous cases that he has covered.
And you have the fact that there was a house under construction, and there were people coming and going, many, many people, apparently. Obviously, there would have to be, to build that kind of a house.
MORET: Well, if you look at the gate, the shot of gate that you showed earlier, there is a keypad on that gate. And virtually everybody who works there has access to the combination. So even though it`s an estate with the gate, it`s really not protected in some ways at all.
And in some ways, this is like every case. You know, investigators have to look at all possible leads. But it is complicated by the fact that Daniel is a defense attorney and he did, according to Ivan Golde, his partner in the Polk trial, own a gun, because he had in the past feared for his safety.
So I suppose that investigators do have to at least be open to all of the possibilities.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And there was some misreporting, as well, by a number of people. I`d read it, and it turned out it wasn`t true. I talked to Daniel about it. He said, no, he doesn`t have a security camera on his property, as had been reported. Is that correct?
MORET: It`s my understanding that there is no security camera. But like I said, I haven`t been up past that gate. So I couldn`t tell you from personal experience.
But, you know, this house was under construction for some time. And they were living in what amounted to a trailer while their dream home was being built. And one can only imagine how difficult it`s going to be for him now to go back to that same property, having looked at a home for he and his wife to share.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And Ted Rowlands, let`s not underestimate the fact that, if you`re looking at this video, this is a huge house, but it`s in a very remote area. Can you tell us a little bit about how far it is from San Francisco and how difficult it is to reach this particular property?
ROWLANDS: Well, it`s north of Oakland, so across the bay from San Francisco. And it`s very difficult to get up there. It`s windy road that leads to the dead-end, basically, into this private road.
And unless you know where you`re going, I don`t think you would really find yourself there. But as Jim pointed out, there are people coming and going all of the time. In fact, they had that keypad. There was a note on the keypad with the combination, so people could come and go, because the entrance is so far from the house.
Clearly, they have a lot to look at. The other thing you got to factor in, this guy was on TV with opinions on all kinds of cases. Who knows who disagreed with him for whatever reason? That could factor in, as well.
They have a lot of work ahead. I think the physical evidence, once that comes back, that may lead them in one particular direction.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That`s an excellent point, Ted.
Robi Ludwig, you have been here when Daniel Horowitz has taken some very controversial positions. He is a fierce defender of the criminally charged.
LUDWIG: That`s right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: That gets a lot of people angry.
LUDWIG: And also, there are viewers that are quite ill that believe they have a relationship with the people on television, even if they don`t. So you could you have somebody with vigilante tendencies who feel that they have a vendetta against Daniel Horowitz and his wife even though they`ve never met them.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And right now, Daniel Horowitz trying to come to terms with this. He said to me he was in shock, that he was trying to absorb it.
How long do you think, briefly, it`s going to take him to get to the point where he gets out of shock and gets into the reality of just this nightmare that`s occurred to him?
LUDWIG: Oh, it`s highly variable. But it`s going to take several months. The good thing is, is that he has many wonderful, supportive friends. He is talking about it, and he does have a career he feels passionate about. And that can help a person reorient themselves into the present and the future.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robi, thank you. And I just want to say to Daniel, because he was so nice to me and so kind to me when I covered the Jackson trial, so generous with his information, when I didn`t know things. I`m not a lawyer.
And I had to ask questions. And he would e-mail me. It really touched me. And I just want you to know that we`re all here, our prayers are with you, our thoughts are with you tonight in your grief. It`s very sad.
When we come back, we`re going to talk about Aruba, the very latest in the search for Natalee Holloway, some dramatic new information. Stay right there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody like Pamela Vitale, a woman who spends a lot of time in the home, who has dogs -- and they had two big German shepherds -- who has firearms in the house, is the least likely person to be the victim of a random encounter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMIE SKEETERS, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Sometimes your closest friends, if they`re worried, and this thing is that big, they`ll burn you.
DEEPAK KALPOE, SUSPECT IN NATALEE HOLLOWAY CASE: I don`t have any close friends anymore. They are all gone.
SKEETERS: Really, because of this?
KALPOE: Everything is empty. If I knew where the body is, I would have told them a long time ago and let them start the trial and get this over with. I don`t care.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell filling in for Nancy Grace. And we are talking about Aruba.
She went missing four months ago. And now, Natalee Holloway`s parents are headed back to Aruba. They are trying to solve this case. They will not give up. We`ve got a whole bunch of people to talk about this, but first let`s go out to "Inside Edition`s" Jim Moret for the very latest -- Jim?
MORET: Basically, you said in it a nutshell. This case started about four month ago. On Friday, it would have been Natalee`s 19th birthday. And Natalee is far from forgotten by her parents.
Her mom, Beth, and her father, Dave, are both heading back to Aruba, they feel armed with potentially new evidence. They`re going back with a search team from EquuSearch. They want to re-examine a landfill that was, in there view, not fully investigated before. They`re going to seek permits so they can continue their search.
And also, I talked with Beth Twitty recently, as recently as yesterday, as a matter of fact, and she is emboldened by that interview that you just played a portion of, because she said that those statements made by Deepak, one of the three boys who were taken into custody, indicates that these statements -- that they actually had sex with Natalee, which is inconsistent with statements that they made in the past. And she is hoping that this will ultimately lead to their re-arrest.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one of the problems with this case, Jim, is that there have been so many statements by so many people, and they`re all so contradictory, it`s hard to keep track of what the very latest statement is. But you`re saying the latest statement that Kalpoe made was that, in fact -- and I want to clarify this, because this is so significant -- all three had sex, according to him, with Natalee?
MORET: That`s right. And that`s inconsistent with statements made to investigators and made previously. And that`s significant, because, if these boys have been released and are somehow emboldened to a point where they make inconsistent statements that would implicate them in this crime, then that may be reason enough to bring them back into custody, and reopen this investigation, and move forward in a meaningful way.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And let`s hear exactly what Deepak Kalpoe had to say to this investigator for Dr. Phil.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SKEETERS: If it was an accident, I can help all of you. And if you guys were partying, even if someone had given her a date drug -- I`m sure she had sex with all of you.
KALPOE: She did. You`d be surprised how simple it was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Now I want to ask Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario" newspaper, when we talk about all three, we`re talking about the Kalpoe brothers and Joran Van Der Sloot.
Joran Van Der Sloot has gone from Aruba to Holland, where he is now going to college. Are Aruban authorities tracking him there? Are there any investigators who have gone to Holland to kind of track his movements, see if he talks to people, see if he says something that could break the case?
JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, I`m sure they have talked to him over there, but I don`t know who`s gone from Aruba. I have no knowledge of that. I`m sure they`ve talked to him in Holland. He`s given interviews, like everybody knows. But we don`t have much news from him from so far a ways at this point.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So it`s kind of split. Joran Van Der Sloot and his dad, as I understand it, in Holland. But I believe Joran`s mother is still in Aruba. Is that correct?
And what`s the very latest on the search of Joran Van Der Sloot`s parents` house? Because my understanding is, they searched perhaps areas around that, but they didn`t search the parents` home. Is it too late to do that? Let`s face it. DNA evidence lingers for quite a while. Why can`t they get there now and do that?
MANSUR: Well, I`m sure that they will, but this man has appealed to his own sense of privacy and has refused anyone to go on his property. I know that EquuSearch wanted to do it. They even had some argument on the spot. But Paul Van Der Sloot refused for him to search his property.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Tim Miller from EquuSearch, what do you have to say about that? I mean, if in fact there`s evidence that they were in back of the house talking about a defense strategy in the days immediately after her disappearance, why can`t they get a search warrant to go in there? Is it because the laws are different in Aruba?
TIM MILLER, EQUUSEARCH DIRECTOR: Well, I mean they are different in Aruba. And I mean, even in America here we got to get a search warrant and have to have reasonable cause to do that.
But I mean, Jossy is right. I got into -- not a real argument with Paul Van Der Sloot, but I let him know that we could help him clear his image and his name. And we really wanted to search the abandoned well in his backyard and also some new concrete supposedly poured around the swimming pool.
And we had all equipment to do that with without having to dig anything up. And we said, "Will you allow us to do that?" And he literally went crazy on us.
So, you know, on our searches, we always like to start the last place a person was seen. And I think evidence or, you know, statements are coming in that we feel as though Natalee probably was there last. And so, you know, allow us to clear it. Let`s just clear that and move on. But we`ve got other areas.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let me ask defense attorney Richard Herman, because you raise a very good point. If, in fact, you`ve done nothing wrong and everybody wants to search, the whole world is gathered there, saying, "Let us search your home so we can clear your name," why not say, "Come on in. I`ve got nothing to hide"?
HERMAN: Jane, he`s a judge, and he`s just too smart for that. You know, sadly, I believe this case was lost the first week to two weeks. That`s when they could have obtained the DNA evidence. They blew it then.
And now, in my opinion, without an express admission by one of these guys, not these inconsistent statements, but an expressed admission, I don`t believe this case is going to be solved, sadly.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But let me ask you this: DNA lingers. And the reason I say this is that, the more I look at all of these cases, the more absolutely struck I am by the fact that, if the DNA was available, so many, many, many cases could be solved.
And as we look at many programs that detail, Luminol, all sorts of ways of finding blood evidence and DNA evidence, that linger years sometimes after the fact, is it too late? Or could we possibly get back into some of these key areas, like the Kalpoe brothers` car, the home, maybe the area she was last seen, and get a crucial piece of information?
HERMAN: Jane, it`s a possibility. It`s an absolute long shot. And we`re just never going to have that opportunity. The Aruban authorities will not give us that opportunity.
They blocked the FBI. They made them sit in the back rooms while they conducted their investigation. And I`m telling you, that first week to two weeks, that was the time they could have solved this crime.
Absent this admission, these inconsistent statements are not prosecuted in Aruba like they are in the United States. You lie to an authority in the United States, you`re going to get prosecuted.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And, I have to tell you, the family not giving up. They`re going back down there. They`re searching wherever they can.
Thank you so much.
Quickly to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for this man, Cesar Carlos Castaneda, wanted in connection with the 1995 Texas murder of 86-year-old William Lennox (ph).
Castaneda, 26, 5`8", 140 pounds, brown hair, brown eyes. If you have any information on Cesar Carlos Castaneda, please call the FBI at 915-832- 5000.
Local news next for some of you. We`ll be right back. And remember, live coverage of a Texas bus crash lawsuit, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern Court TV.
Stay with us as we remember Specialist Bernard L. Ceo, 23, a true American hero.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Natalie Holloway`s parents, mom and dad, not giving up in the search for their daughter. Both headed back to Aruba.
Jossy Mansur, managing director of "Diario," what`s the latest on the searches? Apparently there are still underwater areas to be searched and there`s high-tech equipment now available in those searches.
MANSUR: Yes, ma`am. They did get (INAUDIBLE) and Eduardo Mansur did get some specialized undersea cameras, which they will use to pinpoint a large area of ocean that was identified by Joe Walker with his specialized equipment, apparently found some kind of human remains, bones and teeth, very close to the hotel area.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Wait a second. That sounds like we`re burying the lead here. I mean, you`re saying that they found something? Say that again. I haven`t heard this.
MANSUR: No, no, that they identified on this detector -- the detector identified in the ocean some kind of bones and teeth at some point in a large area of ocean, in the area that we know as the hotel area.
Nothing has been found, but it has been identified by a detector. And that`s why they`re using these specialized cameras to go out there now and do a deep-water and a total search of the whole area.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I`m not a scientist, so I wouldn`t know how you could possibly identify something so specifically without having seen it. But it`s hope.
And that`s what I want to ask Robi Ludwig very quickly. This family - - I can`t even imagine how depressing it has to be to go back down there. Is this hope for them?
LUDWIG: Well, actually, it might be more depressing to not go there, because at least if they`re going there, they can say, "Listen, I`m not going away until I find answers," and let everybody there know that they will not give up, and they`re not going to let somebody get away with murder when it comes to their daughter.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, it sounds very high-tech, but let`s hope maybe there is something real there with this search and what they found. And we`re going to stay on top of it.
And when Nancy comes back, I`m sure she`s going to get the very latest for us on what those folks are doing with that high-tech equipment underwater searching for Natalee, trying to find the answer to that mystery.
I want to thank all my guests tonight and the folks watching at home for helping us track these very important cases. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace.
Coming up, headlines from around the world, "LARRY KING" on CNN. And be sure to tune in tomorrow and Wednesday at 8:00 p.m. Eastern. Nancy will be live with special coverage from the San Francisco Bay Area on the murder of the wife of defense attorney Daniel Horowitz, for a firsthand look into that investigation.
Good night.
END
