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CNN Live At Daybreak

'TIME' Gives Rare Look Into Iraq's Insurgency; CIA Leak Probe; Big On Small Talk

Aired October 18, 2005 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: From the Time Warner center in New York, this is DAYBREAK with Carol Costello and Chad Myers.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. Thank you for waking up with us. Chad will be along in a minute with your forecast.

Also coming up this half-hour, suicide bomber school. We'll go inside with "TIME" magazine for an exclusive look at how one Iraqi insurgent leader teaches people how to kill.

But first, "Now in the News."

Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is in China them, and he wants answers. The U.S. is worried about China's big increase in military spending. This is Rumsfeld's first visit to China since taking office in 2001.

It's a race against time and the elements in Pakistan. More than three million people remain homeless from last weekend's earthquake, and United Nations officials fear dropping temperatures could make matters much worse.

Shooting has broken out again in the southern Russian city of Nalchik. That's where alleged Islamic extremists attacked police and other government buildings last week. Nearly 140 people were killed in that fighting.

A warning has been issued against using Enteryx. The federal government says the acid reflux treatment has serious side effects, including death. The company that makes Enteryx recalled the product last month, citing problems with the way doctors administered it.

Let's talk about Wilma now. To the forecast center and Chad.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: We're just getting these pictures in to CNN. You're just about to see them, and they are the first glimpse of the inside of the Iraqi courtroom where Saddam Hussein will go on trial.

Let's take a look. As you know, the trial is supposed to happen tomorrow. The former dictator and seven of his top leaders face charges in the 1982 killings of nearly 150 people. It was allegedly revenge for an assassination attempt on Saddam. We'll have much more on the trial of Saddam Hussein throughout the day on CNN. Let's talk about the vote in Iraq, because there are possible problems in Iraq's constitutional referendum. Iraqi election officials are investigating results after some unusually high vote totals in Shiite and Kurdish provinces. As many as 99 percent of voters there reportedly approved the draft constitution. Some Sunnis are alleging voter fraud. They say police took ballot boxes from heavily "no" districts, and that some "yes" areas had more votes than registered voters.

Day after day we hear about murderous suicide bombings in Iraq. This week's issue of "TIME" magazines gives us a rare glimpse into the making of a suicide bomber. "TIME" profiles an Iraqi man who says he's helped to coordinate at least 30 suicide bombings in just over a year. Even his 9-year-old son, his brother and his sister were willing to blow themselves up.

He tells "TIME" magazine -- and I quote -- "My job is to know how I can get a bomber to the best spot for an attack at a time when he is sure to inflict the most damage."

Joining me now is "TIME's" senior Baghdad correspondent, Bobby Ghosh.

Good morning, Bobby.

BOBBY GHOSH, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Hi.

COSTELLO: You know, I read your article, and it's just chilling. So, this guy, he calls himself "Abu al-Tamimi" (ph). That's not his real name. But he actually is a handler for suicide bombers. Where do the suicide bombers come from?

GHOSH: Well, the bombers are -- he's like a subcontractor in terrorism, if you like. The bombers are sent to him by different insurgent groups, terrorist groups, ranging from Abu Musab Zarqawi's group, which is al Qaeda in Iraq, to some more obscure Baathist groups.

He doesn't much care where they come from as long as they come through channels that he recognizes. And his job is to then help them complete the final aspect of their mission, which is go off and explode themselves.

COSTELLO: Well, let's pause there for a second, because a line in here intrigued me. He said, "Insurgent groups prefer to use foreigners, because Iraqis are fighting for their country's future, so they have something to live for."

Now let's center on once this guy, al-Tamini, gets these suicide bombers, he brings them to a remote location in a little house. And they kind of hole up there. And then what does he do?

GHOSH: When they hole up, he's investigating target opportunities. Let's say they decide to bomb a police station. He scopes out the target. He thinks what the best time to mount an attack there, what is the best route to take. He organizes the weapon, whether it is a bus bomb or a car bomb. He picks the right time. And then he will then take the bomber on a couple of test runs.

In the meantime, he will also help the bomber with food and shelter and clothing. If the bomber needs some spiritual guidance, he will put him in touch with a friendly usually Sunni imam.

And then on the day of the operation, he will drive with the bomber very close to the target, and then send him off on his way. And sometimes he will videotape the final few minutes of the bomber's life for his own records and to give back to the group that originally sponsored the bomber.

COSTELLO: You know, the other chilling aspect of this, you talk about how difficult it is for him to fit the suicide bomber with a bomb belt or a suicide vest. Why?

GHOSH: Well, it depends on the size. People who are unusually large or unusually small would need custom-made belts. The belts are usually generally made for medium-built people. If you're very small and you have a very large belt, then it will stick out. And your chances of getting caught are greater.

Similarly, if you are very large and the belt doesn't fit you properly, it will probably -- your discomfort will probably show. And alert guards somewhere might be able to spot you.

Custom-making these belts are not always possible. So, he prefers to have people of medium-sized build, somebody around 5'10 and maybe 150 pounds.

COSTELLO: You know, even with all we have heard about how easy it is to recruit suicide bombers, a lot of us still can't understand what's in their mind to be willing to blow themselves up.

Now, al-Tamimi, in your article, cites an example of his current charge, a Saudi barely past his teens who arrived in Baghdad earlier this month. "You can't imagine how excited and happy he is," al- Tamimi says. "He can't stop smiling and laughing, even singing."

Does al-Tamimi also give them a pep talk while he's in his -- while they are in his charge?

GHOSH: Yes, he does, although he points out that by the time they have come to him, they have already been indoctrinated or brainwashed by the group that was sponsoring them. They have been tested. Their resolve has been tested in many different ways. By the time they come to him there's very little brainwashing left to be done.

But sometimes they will want to discuss the religious -- pseudo- religious aspects of their mission. And he is able to do that.

COSTELLO: Well, he must be good at it, because his 9-year-old son came up to him and said, hey, dad, I want to be a suicide bomber.

GHOSH: Exactly. And not only that, one of his own brothers and one of his own sisters also asked for his help in becoming a suicide bomber.

An interesting thing is -- and here is where his hypocrisy comes through -- when it comes to his own family, he tells them, no, no, no, that's not for you. There are other ways to attack Americans, and I'll show you how. He's taught his 9-year-old kid how to make roadside bombs and how to fashion missile launchers. But he doesn't want his own family to get into the suicide bombing business, if you like.

For them, there are different rules. But for the young people being sent to him from other parts of the Arab world, he's quite happy to send them off to him.

COSTELLO: Bobby Ghosh from "TIME" magazine. If you want to read more, the article is in this week's edition of "TIME" magazine.

Back in this country, indictments in the CIA leak case could be handed out as early as this week. It's unknown who is at the center of the investigation. But this morning, "The Washington Post" is reporting that it's the vice president's office.

CNN national correspondent Bob Franken joins us now from Washington.

Good morning -- Bob.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning.

I think I have to hasten to say at the very beginning that the possibility exists there will be no indictment. That is a decision that many of the lawyers who are close to the case say is still up in the air, at least it was recently.

As for "The Washington Post" article, it's reporting what any number of us have reported, that there is a focus on the vice president's office, maybe not the single focus.

The evidence, for instance, came in an article by Judith Miller, "The New York Times" reporter who had been jailed for 85 days. In her article, she says, Mr. Fitzgerald asked her whether Mr. Cheney had known what his chief aide was doing and saying. The answer was no.

And that the indications are that there have been a number of questions. We know that the vice president's chief of staff, Lewis Scooter Libby, has been a focus of the investigation. His lawyer doesn't comment. We don't know if that focus will turn into his being a target of the investigation. The special prosecutor, Patrick Fitzgerald, has been very closed-mouth about this kind of thing.

One of the things to look for is the possibility of a conspiracy charge. A conspiracy charge is one that would not necessarily mean that the person had committed a crime, only that he had engaged in conversations that later resulted in a crime, perhaps others doing that crime who had been engaged in the conversation with them.

So, this is very, very complicated legal maneuvering. Obviously the vice president with his huge interest in the weapons of mass destruction matter has been a focus of the investigation through his office since the investigation began.

COSTELLO: All right. Bob Franken reporting live from Washington.

Soledad O'Brien will have more on the CIA leak investigation in the next hour on "AMERICAN MORNING." She joins us now, as a matter of fact.

Good morning -- Soledad.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Carol, good morning to you.

Yes, in fact, time is running out, really, for the prosecutor in the case to announce any charges. Is the investigation now turning toward Vice President Dick Cheney?

And there was an attempt, some say, to steer the testimony of "The New York Times" reporter, Judy Miller. We're going to ask your lawyer about that.

Also, no secret that high school students are spending more and more each year on the prom. The dresses, the tuxes, the limos. Some people are spending hundreds of dollars. Some people are spending thousands of dollars. And then, of course, if you're a parent, you're worried about the sex and the drugs and the alcohol.

Well, one Catholic school, a high school on Long Island, is now taking some drastic action to prevent these excesses, as they like to call them. They went ahead and canceled the prom. We were chatting about it yesterday. This morning, we talk to the school's principal.

We'll have those stories ahead on "AMERICAN MORNING."

COSTELLO: I can't wait.

S. O'BRIEN: You weren't sorry. You were, like, cheering the guy.

COSTELLO: You go, brother! And he is a brother. I can't wait.

S. O'BRIEN: Literally brother, yes.

COSTELLO: Exactly. I can't wait to hear from him. Thank you, Soledad.

S. O'BRIEN: See you then.

COSTELLO: Will Harriet Miers have the answers they're looking for? The Supreme Court nominee returns a lengthy questionnaire to the Senate Judiciary Committee today. Her critics say she is not qualified for the job. But what do you think?

A CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll asked if President Bush should withdraw Miers' nomination. Thirty-six percent of the people responding say yes. Forty-six percent say no. Eighteen percent are unsure.

In the meantime, there is some confusion over Miers' legal views. Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Arlen Specter says Miers told him she supports a landmark 1965 privacy ruling. Now that case was later used as a basis for Roe v. Wade, which was the ruling that legalized abortion.

But the White House disputes Specter's comments. And the senator later said he misunderstood Miers.

More to come on DAYBREAK. A pro player caught on tape. What happened outside this nightclub may affect one team's entire season.

And the art of small talk. What do you say when there's nothing to say? An expert on icebreakers and no-no's joins us.

But first, here's a look at what else is making news this Tuesday.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Let's take a look at the international markets now. Tokyo's Nikki is down 48 points. The London FTSE is up 11-and-a-half. The German DAX up 9.

In futures trading, let's take a look at the price of oil, because it's down again this hour 81 cents to $63.55 a barrel.

Your news, money, weather and sports. It's 6:45 Eastern. Here's what's all new this morning.

A deadly crash in western Iraq. The U.S. military says two Marines were killed in a firefight with insurgents. It happened in the city of al-Rutba (ph) yesterday. Four insurgents also died.

In money news, Delta Airlines announces greater access overseas. The introduction of more intercontinental routes is part of the airline's plan to rebound from bankruptcy. New routes include stops in Italy, France and Hungary.

In culture, remember this picture of John Lennon and Yoko Ono in "Rolling Stone?" A group of editors has ranked it as the top magazine cover of the last 40 years. Second place went to the 1991 "Vanity Fair" cover showing a pregnant and naked Demi Moore. Who could forget that?

In sports, the Indianapolis Colts remain the NFL's only unbeaten team at 6-0. Edgerrin James ran for three touchdowns, and Peyton Manning threw two TDs as the Colts beat the Rams 45-28. Wow! That was (INAUDIBLE).

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: That was the (INAUDIBLE).

COSTELLO: Yes.

MYERS: Absolutely. Good morning, Carol. COSTELLO: Good morning.

MYERS: What's your sign, Carol? We'll get to that in a second.

COSTELLO: OK.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: OK. I'm getting to those one-liners now, because that's what we're going to talk about next.

MYERS: I got a couple of good ones.

COSTELLO: Yes, we do. The holiday season is right around the corner. And that means your wife's or husband's office party, or your neighbor's caroling party, and -- well, they're going to be going on. And there's going to be lots and lots of small talk. So, are you ready to schmooze?

Well, here to the rescue is the woman who wrote the book on the fine art of small talk. Her name is Debra Fine, and she joins us live from Seattle, Washington, with some pointers.

Thank you for waking up early for us.

DEBRA FINE, AUTHOR, "THE FINE ART OF SMALL TALK": You are so welcome, Carol. I'm glad to be here. I'm a little afraid of Chad right now, but I'm so glad to be here.

COSTELLO: That's OK. I am too. I really am.

Let's talk about...

FINE: Well (INAUDIBLE) sign.

COSTELLO: I know. That's a bad one, isn't it? But let's talk about going to a party. You're kind of a shy person. You have no idea of how to start up a meaningless conversation, really, with a complete stranger. And you have some tips for us. And one of the tips is to memorize some opening lines. So, tell us, besides that fantastic one that Chad had, what's a great opening line?

FINE: Well, if we're talking about a holiday party, Carol, some ideas that you might have in your head, it's not even memorization as much as preparation. Just have two or three lines in your head when you walk into the door of an event or a dinner or whatever it may be, because the worst time to think of something to talk about is when there's nothing to talk about.

So, it should be your responsibility to come up with things to talk about to make people feel comfortable.

COSTELLO: And what...

FINE: At a holiday party, you might ask something as simple as, "How do you know the host or hostess?" Or, "How are you connected to this law firm," if you're at some open house for a law firm. Or, "What got you involved with this organization?" So that's one route that you can take.

Another one might be, "Tell me about your favorite holiday tradition." Or, "How does this time of year impact your work or your life," or something along those lines.

COSTELLO: And, you know, your other tip is practice makes perfect. So, you're actually suggesting practicing those opening lines?

FINE: Well, it's not so much -- yes, practice if you need practice, because the real key is, for instance, body language I talk about in the book. If you exude any -- if you're uncomfortable, if you're ill at ease at a function, a party, a networking event, people pick up on that, and they don't like to spend time with you. So, if you need to practice in order to appear relaxed and at ease, then practice.

But otherwise, do what I do. Just fake it and pretend you're relaxed. Exude, you know, this calm demeanor so that people will feel comfortable about being around you.

COSTELLO: And you also say ask open-ended questions. So "yes" and "no" questions are out. We asked our viewers this morning, Debra...

FINE: Yes, I heard.

COSTELLO: ... to give us some of their favorite one-liners. And, Chad, do you have some of those?

MYERS: You know, more then one-liners, but maybe a little bit of comedy here.

James from Lawrenceville says he always likes to start the conversation with, "What's that on your nose?"

FINE: Oh, that's a good one, James. Does he get a lot of women that way?

MYERS: I'm thinking no. I'm thinking probably not.

Another one from Kevin says, "What do you think happens after we die?" That's probably not the first question I would ask.

FINE: Wow! No. That's a tough one.

COSTELLO: Oh, give us a good one. Our viewers must have a good one-liner to shoot out there.

MYERS: "Hello, you look interesting. Do I know you?"

FINE: Well, see, do you know why those are all good, by the way, Carol, Chad? They sound funny or cheesy. This is the -- if anybody watching thinks about this: When someone approaches you to start a conversation, you decide before they open their mouth whether you're willing to talk to them or not. It's never the line. Unless it's offensive that opening line, you've decided already you're too busy to talk to them, or they're too tall or too short, or they don't work for the right company.

Last night, I was on an airplane flying into Seattle. I decided I didn't want to talk to anybody before I met anybody, because I was exhausted flying in from Boston and just wanted to read my book and go to sleep. So, no line would have worked for me.

That is the key is that be the first to say hello. They've already decided if they're going to talk to you or not.

COSTELLO: You know, along those lines, you also have people that probably don't want to talk to you. And you have specific, I guess, personas of some people. One is the one-upper.

FINE: Right.

COSTELLO: And I think we can all guess what that kind of person does. But if you're a one-upper, nobody is going to want to talk to you, right?

FINE: Oh, I'm not so sure, Carol. How many of us have women friends, when I say, well, it's been a really tough week with my daughter in college and da-da, da-da, da. And their response is, you're daughter is in college. I have three kids in college, and you should see what I have to do. I have to do this, and I have to do that, and I have to do this. And then they go on and on and on, and they never ask me about my life. They just keep talking about themselves.

They've not only upped me, but they've become monopolizing as well. And yet, they are what we call our friends, because those are some of our friends that just seem to talk about themselves all the time, or our boss who talks about themselves all the time, or one-ups us with the challenges he or she faces.

COSTELLO: So, it's not going to be a one-upper or a monopolizer.

FINE: No.

COSTELLO: How about the interrupter?

FINE: Well, the interrupter...

COSTELLO: That's probably my...

FINE: Well, you're an interrupter, Carol?

COSTELLO: Yes, I'll admit it.

FINE: No, well, I'm bad, and I'll tell you why I interrupt, for instance, my husband. I interrupt my husband within a moment of him beginning to explain to something to me. I interrupt him, because he's wrong. Right? And I don't want him to waste one more moment of our precious time, one more drop of his saliva. So, people like me interrupt so that you don't get to the end of your story, because we know you're wrong, and we just want to, you know, tell you what the right thing is.

COSTELLO: You were...

FINE: That's what most interrupters do. Isn't that true?

MYERS: You don't want him to waste his saliva? I mean, that's an opening line.

FINE: Is that what you think?

MYERS: Because, you know, I don't want you to waste your saliva.

FINE: Well, but most people -- there are good reasons to interrupt people. You're talking about a topic that makes my uncomfortable. I'll interrupt you to change the course of the topic. I need to exit. That's a good reason to interrupt someone.

But people like me, the bad interrupters, are, as I am asking him what he thought of, you know, the White Sox making it into the World Series, as he tells me what his thoughts are about the whole series, I interrupt him, because I don't want him to waste my time, because I know what I think he should be saying. Or I know what my opinion is, so I want to get it in there.

COSTELLO: Well, we're going to have your husband on next. Debra Fine...

FINE: Tomorrow? Oh, he'll be so excited.

COSTELLO: Debra Fine. I wish we had more time, but we're got to wrap it up. The book is "The Fine Art of Small Talk." And, Debra, thanks for joining us this morning.

FINE: Thank you, Carol. Thanks, Chad.

MYERS: You bet.

COSTELLO: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Welcome back. It's 6:56 Eastern. Here is what will be making news today.

Did a bar brawl involving Seattle Seahawks safety Ken Hamlin end with a murder? That's what police want to find out. Hamlin remains in intensive care. Later, a man's body was found, and someone claiming to be the murder victim's brother says the victim was involved in the attack on Hamlin and was murdered out of revenge. So far police cannot verify that claim.

The man at the center of the sports steroid scandal, BALCO founder Victor Conte, will be sentenced today in San Francisco. And private planes are returning to Reagan National near Washington this morning for the first time since the 9/11 attacks, but there are many, many restrictions.

It's time next for our favorite cheesy part of the program.

MYERS: To give away a mug.

COSTELLO: Definitely.

MYERS: That's not cheesy.

COSTELLO: Yes, it is.

MYERS: OK. Good morning.

Here are the questions from yesterday and the winner from way out west. I don't know why guys are even awake out there, but here you go.

The questions: Where did China's taikonauts land? And that was in Gobi Desert of inner Mongolia. Remember, they were up there for a couple of days doing that space walk thing. And what's the name of the mamma panda at the National Zoo? And that is Mei Xiang.

And the winner from way out west, way out in Spokane, Lindsay Chamberlain. You win today's CNN DAYBREAK coffee mug. Congratulations -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Lindsay, we're glad you're watching.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: If you are traveling, Chad has news.

(WEATHER REPORT)

COSTELLO: From the Time Warner Center in New York, I'm Carol Costello along with Chad Myers. Thank you for joining us. We'll see you on "AMERICAN MORNING." It starts right now.

S. O'BRIEN: Thanks, Carol. I'm Soledad O'Brien.

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