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Nancy Grace

Interview With Daniel Horowitz

Aired October 18, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, live from California, breaking news in the brutal death of Pamela Vitale, as you know, the wife of high-profile defense attorney Daniel Horowitz. Tonight, in an exclusive interview, my friend and my colleague, Daniel Horowitz.
Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Tonight, we are live in California with special coverage of the brutal bludgeoning death of Pamela Vitale, the wife of defense attorney Daniel Horowitz. Tonight, in an exclusive conversation with our show`s friend and colleague, he talks about the stunning and tragic loss of his wife, Pam, and now the struggle to bring Pamela`s killer to justice.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL HOROWITZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, you scream. You cry. but I know I basically sat with her and I just told her, I love you, and, You`re beautiful, and you know, just whatever things you say to somebody you love because to me, at that point, all that was there was the person I love. I mean, it didn`t matter anymore, you know, what I -- what was around her or the horror. I had so much time with Pamela. So I just looked at her face, and it was beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Right now, out to Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, what`s the latest?

JANE-VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: ... Pamela Vitale, the wife of our dear friend and colleague, Dan Horowitz, and why. That remains a mystery tonight, a mystery that law enforcement investigators say they are determined to solve. They have remained all day at the crime scene, which is the Horowitz estate, about 20 miles east of San Francisco, poring over the evidence there. They expect to be back there tomorrow.

Meantime, they insist this is a wide open investigation. They have no suspect and they have not ruled anyone out. Now, we have learned a little bit more about one of the individuals they have questioned. Again, not considered a suspect, but a neighbor by the name of Joe Lynch. It was about four months ago that Daniel Horowitz sought a restraining order against this Joe Lynch, saying he had a drug and alcohol problem that made him violent and abusive. Well, CNN today spoke with Joe Lynch, and he said, yes I used to be a jerk. I used to have a drug and alcohol problem, including methamphetamines, for more than 20 years, but I`ve gotten help. I am now clean and sober. And he absolutely insists he had nothing to do with the tragic death of Pamela Vitale. And again...

GRACE: Interesting that he said that...

VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... there are no suspects...

GRACE: ... but I would call it -- I would call it more than just being just a jerk, including DUI convictions. In that court file, the Walnut Creek, California file, evidence of clinical depression, being on four different medications, at least. And in that file, Daniel Horowitz wrote a letter to the judge to go easy on Joe Lynch, Horowitz`s neighbor, to try to help him start all over.

But you know what? It didn`t end there. A TRO, temporary restraining order, was obtained by Horowitz and his wife. And they`re not the only ones. Other people in this neighborhood have obtained restraining orders against Joe Lynch. Does that make him a killer? No. But interesting, in one of those orders, Joe Lynch was accused of kicking down a door, violently screaming.

We talked to Daniel about this and many other things. Again, he is not a suspect, Joe Lynch, this neighbor of Daniel Horowitz`s. But we do know that the trailer in which Pamela Vitale was living while building their dream house was entered through the front door, and the struggle ensued right there.

Here is what Daniel Horowitz had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOROWITZ: And I saw her, and everything -- I understood everything that I could see. I took it all in, and I knew she was dead. But still, even though I knew, I kneeled down and I touched her just to see if she was OK. And even though I -- it`s like I did things, even though I knew it wasn`t going to do any good.

And then I walked quickly into the house to the 911 -- to call 911 on my phone, dialed it, and it was like my ears were ringing and I couldn`t even hear what I was saying. And it didn`t matter. I knew then -- I didn`t want -- I just threw down the phone and I got out of there. I didn`t want to -- because there was, like, two modes going on. Right now, you`re seeing the -- really, the thinking mode. You know, I just -- the mode that I was in, I ran out, and then...

GRACE: Ran out to where?

HOROWITZ: Just to the front door, and I touched her neck again just to be sure. And then I saw her hand, and I just knew from what I know that she wasn`t alive. And then I just know -- and then I peeled (ph) out my phone and I knew I had to call the police and tell them, so I dialed the regular police number.

And then I was just with her, and I just -- I don`t know exactly what I said, between -- you know, you scream, you cry. But I know I just basically sat with her and I just told her, I love you, and, You`re beautiful, and you know, just whatever things you say to somebody you love because to me, at that point, all that was there was the person I love. I mean, it didn`t matter anymore, you know, what I -- what was around her or the horror. I had just so much time with Pamela, so I just looked at her face and it was beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The time that Daniel was describing as being with Pamela is the time he sat in the entrance area of their trailer with her dead body, waiting for police to arrive. This is what Daniel had to say about police arrival. They kept him in their squad car, in the back seat, for over two hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

When police came, Daniel, what did they want from you?

HOROWITZ: At first, they just wanted me to just be OK. And they just sat me in the back of the police car, and I just called my family. And when I wanted them, I`d knock on the window and just try to tell them things. But I don`t really remember what I told them.

GRACE: Knock on the car window?

HOROWITZ: Yes. Then they`d come over.

GRACE: Did you stay there while they processed the scene?

HOROWITZ: They didn`t let me see anything. I was far back. I mean, they protected me from that. And then there was so many police cars. They responded -- they did -- Nancy, they sent more police than I`ve ever seen. And then they took me to the police station. And I mean, they were very kind to me. They put me in they room where they put children who`ve been hurt, and they watched me to make sure I didn`t try to kill myself, which I wasn`t going to do, but they still watched me.

GRACE: These...

HOROWITZ: Not in the room, but...

GRACE: ... days have passed now. What has gone through your head? What do you want to do now?

HOROWITZ: Sort of, you got me in the stage where I`m starting to accept that she`s not coming back. Until maybe today, I just couldn`t accept that it was real. You know, I was just constantly -- I don`t know. I just wasn`t processing anything in a real way.

GRACE: It didn`t seem real.

HOROWITZ: Yes. And more than that, I just -- we would be talking about what happened, and I`d feel like picking up the phone and calling her. Now, today, I`m sort of -- a really numb stage. You know, I`m just numb. And I see her face in a picture. I went to my office today.

GRACE: I know.

HOROWITZ: And I got -- there`s only two pictures that I could get off the wall because all the pictures are at home. And at home, Pamela had, like, every picture of the family on one, you know, big counter in the main room. And then there`s pictures all over. And we want all those pictures. I want to make copies of the pictures, so we`ll them. But I can`t get them because they need them there. They need the house untouched.

GRACE: Untouched.

HOROWITZ: And I appreciate what they`re doing, but -- so what I did was, I went to my office, where I have my pictures of her. And there`s one picture of Pamela being licked by one of our puppy dogs, which is a funny one because she did not like dogs to lick her. So it was a picture I purposely kept there, just because it was funny to me because she had such a cute look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are broadcasting live tonight from California, just a few hundred yards from the home of Daniel Horowitz and the trailer in which his wife was found bludgeoned to death. No murder weapon has been found. The scene has been covered for luminol to find blood, to find fingerprints. The home, as of right now, has not been released back to Daniel Horowitz yet.

I want to go straight out to a staff writer with "The San Francisco Daily Journal." Joining me now, Robert Selna. Robert, what can you tell me? What`s the latest about the investigation?

ROBERT SELNA, "JUSTICE" MAGAZINE CONTRIBUTOR, "SAN FRAN. DAILY JOURNAL" STAFF WRITER: Well, the latest about the investigation is that Jimmy Lee, the spokesperson for Contra Costa County, said they`re going to be out there for at least a couple more days, looking over the site and looking for evidence and new clues. He still sticks with the statement that it`s wide open to any theory and any lead and that there`s not one person that`s been identified.

GRACE: What can you tell me about the neighbor, Joe Lynch? Tonight, he is not a suspect.

SELNA: According to the spokespeople in Contra Costa County, he is not a suspect. There is not one suspect. As you mentioned, Dan started to take out a restraining order against Joe, but then decided not to go through with it. And when I spoke to Dan yesterday, he said that he believed Joe was really improving and that things were getting better in his life through drug and alcohol rehab. Sounded to me like he thought Joe was on the mend, basically.

GRACE: I want to go -- speaking of Joe Lynch, I want to go straight out to Harvey Levin. Harvey, thank you for being with us. You have spoken to Joe Lynch. Repeat, he is not a police suspect at this time. Now, when we`re talking about him being in drug and alcohol rehab and how he`s doing so much better, that`s largely because of Daniel Horowitz helping him. Have you seen that Walnut Creek DUI file, where Horowitz writes the judge and asks the judge to help this guy instead of punishing him?

HARVEY LEVIN, "CELEBRITY JUSTICE": Yes. Nancy, and not only that. When I talked to Lynch today, he acknowledged that Horowitz had done a lot to help him. He said that Horowitz is the person who got him into the VA drug and alcohol rehab program, which he insists he`s still in. He says he`s clean and sober.

But Nancy, he did say to me that he has had erratic violent behavior in the past. But he says he doesn`t act violently anymore because he`s clean and sober, says he ran into Horowitz two weeks ago, Horowitz got on the ground, patted his new dog, and he said that they were cordial with each other. So you know, it`s just a really curious relationship.

GRACE: Well, you know, speaking of his changed behavior, interesting -- another neighbor, Jerry Wheeler (ph), apparently this guy, not a suspect, Joe Lynch, kicked his door in and began screaming and ranting and acting violently, actually crashed the Wheelers` car in one of his non- violent episodes he`s talking about.

We are broadcasting tonight live from California, not too, too far away from Daniel Horowitz`s home, his dream home that he was building with his wife, now deceased, Pamela Vitale.

This is what Daniel had to say to me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Daniel, right now the media is handling you with kid gloves. You know that. We`ve been there. We`ve watched it. You know that if this case doesn`t crack, people are going to start blaming you. You know that.

HOROWITZ: Probably. I don`t care.

GRACE: Respond.

HOROWITZ: I don`t care. Right now, Nancy, my wife is gone. The only thing that I want from the media is what they`ve done, which is they put on her pictures, they put on our friends to talk about how beautiful she was, and that`s it, OK? So they`ve done what I need them to do. What they do with me doesn`t matter. I don`t really care.

GRACE: Why?

HOROWITZ: It doesn`t matter. Doesn`t make a difference. What`s the difference?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: It is the ultimate of ironies that Daniel Horowitz has battled so valiantly in the courtroom to defend the rights of people on trial for murder, and now violent crime has entered his family -- our family. Here is what Daniel had to say about coming home when Pamela didn`t answer the phone.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOROWITZ: And I saw her, and everything -- I understood everything that I could see. I took it all in, and I knew she was dead. But still, even though I knew, I kneeled down and I touched her just to see if she was OK. And even though I -- it`s like I did things, even though I knew it wasn`t going to do any good.

And then I walked quickly into the house to the 911 -- to call 911 on my phone, dialed it, and it was like my ears were ringing and I couldn`t even hear what I was saying. And it didn`t matter. I knew then -- I didn`t want -- I just threw down the phone and I got out of there. I didn`t want to -- because there was, like, two modes going on. Right now, you`re seeing the -- really, the thinking mode. You know, I just -- the mode that I was in, I ran out, and then...

GRACE: Ran out to where?

HOROWITZ: Just to the front door, and I touched her neck again just to be sure. And then I saw her hand, and I just knew from what I know that she wasn`t alive. And then I just know -- and then I peeled (ph) out my phone and I knew I had to call the police and tell them, so I dialed the regular police number.

And then I was just with her, and I just -- I don`t know exactly what I said, between -- you know, you scream, you cry. But I know I just basically sat with her and I just told her, I love you, and, You`re beautiful, and you know, just whatever things you say to somebody you love because to me, at that point, all that was there was the person I love. I mean, it didn`t matter anymore, you know, what I -- what was around her or the horror. I had just so much time with Pamela, so I just looked at her face and it was beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOROWITZ: When I went back there, because they wanted me to look at things, I walked through, and I was there as long as I could. And then at some point, I started shaking a little bit. And when I started shaking, you know, it was time to go. And as I walked out the door, I stopped and I looked where she had been. And for that one second, I saw her again.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us. We are broadcasting live here in California, not far from the entrance to Daniel Horowitz`s home, his dream home he had been building with his wife, Pamela Vitale. He came home from work on a current murder case, State v. Susan Polk, to find Pamela bludgeoned to death in the trailer in which they lived.

Her heart and soul had been building their dream house together. Here`s Daniel on Pamela`s dream house.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

I want to talk about the house for a moment. You say you`re never going to live there.

HOROWITZ: Never.

GRACE: What were the special things you put into it that she wanted?

HOROWITZ: Everything she wanted. This was her house, OK?

GRACE: What did she want?

HOROWITZ: She designed it. There`s a piece of paper, which some day, when I`m up in that house and I can find it -- she actually sketched it out. And then she would just -- every single detail, not only just the type of tile, the type of molding. I mean, all of our subcontractors who were up there, they would sit with her, and they all are doing, like, special things just to make it just exactly right.

GRACE: What was the theme?

HOROWITZ: I mean, the theme...

GRACE: Italian?

HOROWITZ: ... was Italian, just as if you went to a beautiful Italian home in the old country in the old way. The rooms are small. The doors are tall. The doors are thick. The stain is dark. Everything is detailed. Everything`s just authentic. It`s like handmade from 150 years ago. I mean, I`m...

GRACE: How long have you been working on this house?

HOROWITZ: Over two years. Mostly, she`s been working on it. Nancy, I just turned it over to her. I just -- my job was to let Pamela build our dream house, and she built it. And we were really -- Phil (ph) (INAUDIBLE) get sick. I always, you know, teased Phil before this, if you didn`t get sick, our house would be done...

GRACE: Would be done by now.

HOROWITZ: ... and we`d be living in it. And we`ve had -- we had all the alarm stuff, I mean, every window, every door, security cameras.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to defense attorney Joe Lawless. Joe, let`s talk about the investigation. Let`s talk about what we know. There is no way, Joe -- correct me, if you disagree -- that this is a random crime. This house and the trailer behind it is up on top of a hill. You have to wind up a road to get there. You have to know where you`re going. There is a six-foot fence around the property. Of course, with surveillance cameras, Joe, somebody could get over that fence without being caught on camera. No way could this camera cover this entire property.

JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think you could argue it`s a random crime. It clearly isn`t a random crime, Nancy. I think the issue is going to be, is -- is, really, Who was the intended victim? Was it Pamela? Could it have been Daniel?

And what`s going to be difficult about the investigation, as I see it, is when you`re in the line of work that we`re in, your clients aren`t always stable people. You`re not dealing with, in most instances, people you`d invite over to your home. More troubling, or more problematic for the police, is given Daniel`s background, it could be anybody. There are people out there who think they have a relationship with him, who know him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I just keep thinking of you in the back seat of that car while she`s still in the trailer.

HOROWITZ: Yes. I kept saying...

GRACE: And cops are...

HOROWITZ: I`m sorry. I kept saying, Can I just say good-bye to my wife one more time? Can I just walk over there? And they kept checking. Can you just go by? And they said, We`re sorry. We just can`t. We can`t let you back.

GRACE: Why?

HOROWITZ: Because it`s a crime scene. They`ve got to secure it. They can`t later on catch the person and have him, Oh, did you let Dan Horowitz walk back there? They can`t do that. They`re professionals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are live just outside the home of Daniel Horowitz, Pamela Vitale. Daniel came home to discover his wife`s body bludgeoned to death in the entrance to their home. Tip line, 866-846-3592. In addition to dealing with the stunning death of his wife, he is now leading the search for the killer.

Straight out to staff writer, "San Francisco Daily Journal," Robert Selna. Robert, tell me about this area. It`s not like somebody fell into the house at the top of this hill to steal a VCR.

SELNA: Well, it`s a fairly remote area. In fact, very remote. And people would not know it was there unless they knew people who live there. Very few people came and went, you know, who didn`t know it was there. Construction workers were there frequently, working on the house. Other people who were, you know, involved in that project were around. But just your everyday person wouldn`t get off the freeway and drive there. They wouldn`t know where they were going. From what I understand, it`s a pretty big canyon area, and there was a lot of acreage out there.

GRACE: What about the Susan Polk case? Horowitz is right in the middle of defending that. We were on air Friday night, arguing about Susan Polk. In fact, we continued the argument -- I did, anyway -- until about midnight with him and Pamela on the phone.

SELNA: Right. Well, the judge has declared a mistrial in that case, and she dismissed the jury, and she has set a December 2 date to come back and schedule a time to pick a new jury. So the case is really suspended, at this point, and the judge is in the position to having to probably decide whether Dan can go forward in the case, given what`s happened now.

GRACE: Robert, is anyone saying this crime is related to the Polk trial?

SELNA: I haven`t heard any official word at all like that. Again, the sheriffs are saying the leads are wide open, and they don`t know. I think people on the street are...

GRACE: OK.

SELNA: ... are saying it and -- because it`s hard to imagine, you know, these two...

GRACE: We`ll be right back, everybody.

SELNA: ... these two violent things not being related.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SUSAN HENDRICKS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everyone. I`m Susan Hendricks. Here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

We`re watching a fast-moving storm in the Caribbean tonight. Hurricane Wilma is now a Category 2 storm with winds of about 100 miles an hour. Forecasts show it could be headed for western Florida.

The search is on now for two men who escaped Sunday from an Oklahoma prison. Police say a vehicle they stole in their escape was found near the Kansas border. The two were convicted of murder and rape.

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That`s the news now. I`m Susan Hendricks. Back to Nancy Grace.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Did you stay there while they processed the scene?

HOROWITZ: They didn`t let me see anything. I was far back. And they protect me from that.

And then there was so many police cars. They responded -- Nancy, they sent more police than I`ve ever seen. Then they took me to a police station.

I mean, they were very kind to me. They put me in a room where they put children who`ve been hurt. And they watch me to make sure I wouldn`t try to kill myself, which I wasn`t going to do, but they still watch me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. We are broadcasting live from California near the home of Daniel Horowitz, a high-profile defense attorney here in the California area, and his wife, now deceased Pam Vitale.

He came home from work to find her bludgeoned to death in the trailer in which they lived outside the construction of their dream home. Daniel Horowitz just said something very interesting. Police took him to the station and put him in the children`s room. That is for juveniles. That is not a room where adult suspects are kept or are detained until interrogation.

Joining me right now, I`m hearing in my ear, is CNN correspondent Ted Rowlands. He`s joining me from outside the Contra Costa County Sheriff`s Office.

Hi, Ted. What`s the latest on the investigation, friend?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, they are saying publicly that they have no announcements and they will have no more announcements until something, quote, "significant happens."

That said, they are clearly working around the clock. And one would expect that some of the physical evidence would come back fairly soon, in terms of what, if they found any.

But they seem to be -- keep open to any option. You know, they`ve gone in a couple different directions, but, at this point, they`re asking for the public`s help. And a lot of times, that`s an indication that they are more than willing to pursue many different theories.

So one would think that they`re not zeroing in specifically on one person at this point. And they`re saying they have nothing knew today, despite this third full day of investigation.

GRACE: Nothing new today. Well, from the way that they handled Horowitz, Ted, there`s been a lot of speculation that he is a suspect. You know, that`s to be expected, Ted, whenever there is a murder of a woman. The boyfriend, the husband, the lover, the ex is always suspect number one.

But very interesting, when they took him to the station, Ted, he told me that he sat in a children`s room for a period of time, left only to go to the restroom. I immediately said, "Did they let you wash your hands?" And he went, "Yes, I asked them if I could wash my hands." And they let him wash his hands.

And you know what that means, Ted.

ROWLANDS: Yes. But, clearly, you know, they had to look at Daniel Horowitz as a suspect initially. And I`m sure that they have talked to him. They`ve said that he`s been fully cooperative. And he says that he`s very pleased with the way this investigation is going.

Yes. Did they let him wash his hands? Clearly. But, then again, you know, he`s a defense attorney, and he would have washed his hands anyway. I mean, I don`t think -- I don`t read too much into that.

GRACE: Well, I do. And I`ll tell you why.

I`ll go to Joe Lawless. Joe, if they were suspicious of him committing this crime, do you think that they would let the evidence go down the drain? Are you kidding me?

LAWLESS: DNA...

GRACE: No way.

LAWRENCE: ... DNA, tissue, blood, no. They would have isolated him. They probably wouldn`t have kept him in the children`s room. He would have been questioned in a lot more detail.

I got to disagree with Ted. I think the fact that they actually did let him wash his hands certainly suggests they didn`t consider him a suspect at that point.

GRACE: Back to Ted...

ROWLANDS: Well, I hope -- I would hope that you`re given the Contra - - Nancy, I would hope that you`re giving the Contra Costa County Sheriff`s Department a little bit more credit, that the guy that found his wife is just cleared within five minutes?

I mean, Daniel Horowitz wouldn`t expect that. Clearly, they were looking at him. You know, they talked to him. So I have to disagree.

You`re saying that these cops just came in and said, "Oh, we`re not going to look at you. Go ahead and wash your hands."

GRACE: Ted, Ted, Ted, he was detained at the scene of the murder for hours on end. By the time he finally had reached the police station, he had been questioned, and questioned, and questioned, gone through the home, you name it.

So I find that significant. But you know what? Maybe you`re right. They continue to question him about what happened.

Ted, I want to talk to you about this neighbor, Joe Lynch. What can you tell me, Ted?

ROWLANDS: Well, I talked to him on the phone yesterday when a lot of accusations were flying. And it seemed as though, when you look at the temporary restraining order that Daniel sought in June, that, boy, this seemed like something significant.

I called and asked him what he thought about fingers being pointed at him. He said he didn`t care. And then I asked him, you know, "Were you involved in this?" And he said that`s ridiculous, absolutely not.

Today he admitted to the drug use. He said that he was out of control there for a while, but he`s been sober for some period of time. And he said that, again, he had absolutely nothing to do with this. And investigators say he`s been completely, completely cooperative.

GRACE: I want to go back out to Harvey Levin. Harvey, you also had spoken to Lynch. And what was your take on that?

LEVIN: Well, you know, he said something similar to me to what he said to Ted. He said not only was he cooperative, but he gave them a hair sample voluntarily.

He also said that he would give any more DNA he needs to. He`s confident he`ll be cleared.

But, Nancy, he said something really interesting to me. When I asked him about the animosity between himself and Daniel Horowitz, he said, "I`m not going to get -- I`m not going to go into reasons. I should have animosity."

And I said to him, "What do you mean you should have animosity?" And his answer to that was, "Well, a lot of people get pissed off if they get an eviction notice."

Well, Daniel Horowitz actually was trying to evict this guy from his property. And what he was telling me, I think, was...

GRACE: When you say his property, let`s clear up whose property. This is Daniel Horowitz`s property this guy`s living on.

LEVIN: This is Daniel Horowitz`s property he was living on. Daniel Horowitz tried to get him evicted, served him with a three-day notice. And what Lynch was telling me was, you know, "I should have gotten pissed off at him."

And, you know, he kind of volunteered that to me. And it`s like, "Well, why did you say that to me if you weren`t pissed off at him?" So it was just kind of an odd reaction to something that I really didn`t even try and elicit.

GRACE: Right. Harvey, you mentioned that he said he gave police a hair sample. Has he let police -- did he consent to a search of the home? Did he hand over the shoes he was wearing that day? Did he let them search for the clothes he was wearing that day?

LEVIN: Nancy, he wouldn`t tell me that. It was really interesting. There were points -- I talked to him probably 20, 25 minutes. There were points when he said, "I don`t want to talk about anything," and then he started talking.

But when I would ask questions about what he had just said, he refused to talk further. I mean, one of the real interesting things, Nancy, is, at a point -- you know, he said to me -- I said, "Look, have you talked to an attorney?" And he said, "Why do I need an attorney? I didn`t do anything."

And then he volunteered. But there`s a neighbor around here that they should be talking to because there`s something going on with him. And I asked him what he meant, and he said, "Well, I don`t want to get into slinging mud, basically." And he wouldn`t tell me who that neighbor was or what this so-called conflict that he was having with Daniel Horowitz.

I also asked him, "Did you have any conflict with Pamela?" And he said absolutely not. He`s never had any problem with her, though, you know, she was part and parcel of this whole eviction thing.

GRACE: Right.

When I spoke to Daniel today, here is more of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOROWITZ: When I went back there, because they wanted me to look at things, I walked through. And I was there as long as I could. And then, at some point, I started shaking a little bit.

And when I started shaking, you know, it was time to go. As I walked out the door, I stopped and I looked where she had been. And then, for that one second, I saw her again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOROWITZ: It`s not going to ever go away, but I`ll be able to have a life of some sort. And so, right now, people around me really love me. And people, Nancy -- I`m getting e-mails from people and calls from people. And, you know, there`s nothing anybody could say, but people just say, "I care. Is there anything I can do?" What else are they going to say?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: For the first time tonight, Daniel Horowitz spoke about the murder of his wife, Pamela Vitale, just as beautiful on the inside as on the outside.

To Ted Rowlands, Ted, are you getting any feeling about how long this investigation will take?

ROWLANDS: Not really. But, I`ll tell you, they have kind of a quiet confidence, I would say. You know, when you -- you can sometimes tell when they have absolutely no idea what`s going on, they`re doing briefings on the hour, every few hours, they`re putting out the 1-800 number.

They do have a tip line here. But you don`t have that feeling, at least from a reporter`s standpoint, that they don`t have any leads, that they`re not busy. I mean, they seem like they`re moving along methodically.

And I think that, most likely, when they get some physical evidence back, they may be able to pull the trigger. Talking to Danny today, even he said, you know, his worst nightmare of being a defense attorney is if the wrong person is directed -- any attention is directed to the wrong person or accused.

So I think that he completely understands that it may take a while. And he supports this investigation and its pace at this point.

I think they`re on some track, but by no means do I think an arrest is coming in the next few hours. In fact, most of the people have gone home here today. It doesn`t look like anything`s going to happen tonight.

GRACE: Joining us is at the Contra Costa County Sheriff`s Office, CNN correspondent Ted Rowlands, with the latest. Ted, thank you.

Out to veteran trial lawyer out of the Texas jurisdiction, Barry Sorrels. Barry, what should police be doing tonight?

BARRY SORRELS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, they need to be going in every direction. And at this point, Nancy, speed is much more important than accuracy. And a murder investigation is a process of elimination. And they need to have people working around the clock.

But, you know, Nancy, there`s a magic number here, also. It doesn`t matter whether it`s a murder investigation in New York City or if it`s a murder investigation in Plano, Texas, or the Bay Area of San Francisco, and that`s 48 hours.

And if you don`t have the case solved within 48 hours or a suspect within 48 hours, it turns into a mystery. And I think this thing -- that`s exactly what`s happening here.

GRACE: Well, I can tell you right now, if they`re listening, I hope to God that they have Luminoled the entire trailer, that they have powdered the whole trailer for fingerprints. This is clearly someone, they knew how to get to the home, how to get into the home.

There`s so many avenues police should be focusing on right now. We know that the autopsy is done. Pamela`s body has not been released for the final good-bye.

The funeral is set for Thursday afternoon. It will be a very private funeral. But Daniel says he has already made one good-bye. Here`s Daniel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I just keep thinking of you in the back seat of that car while she`s still in the trailer.

HOROWITZ: Yes. I kept saying...

GRACE: The cops are...

HOROWITZ: I`m sorry. I kept saying, "Can I just say good-bye to my wife one more time? Could I just walk over there?" And they kept checking, "Can you just go by?" And they said, "We`re sorry. We just can`t. We can`t let you back."

GRACE: Why?

HOROWITZ: Because it`s a crime scene. They got to secure it. They can`t later on catch the person and have -- "Oh, did you let Dan Horowitz walk back there?" They can`t do that. They`re professionals.

And I saw her. And everything -- I understood everything that I could see. I took it all in. And I knew she was dead. But still, even though I knew, I kneeled down and I touched her just to see if she was OK.

And even though -- it was like I did things even though I knew it wasn`t going to do any good. And then I walked quickly into the house to the 911 -- to call 911 on my phone, dialed it. And it was like my ears were ringing, and I couldn`t even hear what I was saying.

And it didn`t matter. I knew then -- I just threw down the phone. And I got out of there. I didn`t want to -- because there`s, like, two modes going on. Right now you`re seeing, really, the thinking mode. You know, I just -- the mode that I was in, I ran out, and then...

GRACE: Ran out to where?

HOROWITZ: Just to the front door. And I touched her neck again, just to be sure. And then I saw her hand. And I just knew from what I know that she wasn`t alive.

And then I just know -- and then I pulled out my phone. And I knew I had to call the police and tell them, so I dialed the regular police number. And then I just was with her. And I just -- I don`t know exactly what I said, in between -- you know, you scream, you cry.

But I know I just basically sat with her. And I just told her, "I love you," and "You`re beautiful," and, you know, just whatever things you say to somebody you love. Because, to me, at that point, all that was there was the person I love.

I mean, it didn`t matter anymore, you know, what was around her or the horror. I had so much time with Pamela. So I just looked at her face, and it was beautiful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: With us, long-time friend and often co-counsel of Daniel Horowitz`s, attorney Ivan Golde. Ivan, you were with Daniel Horowitz the afternoon of Susan`s death -- Pamela`s death, correct?

IVAN GOLDE, DANIEL HOROWITZ`S FRIEND AND CO-COUNSEL: That is correct, Nancy. We had a meeting with myself, Daniel Horowitz, our technical adviser, and two of our investigators. We met in the office for at least four hours that Saturday morning, Nancy.

GRACE: What time did you leave him, Ivan?

GOLDE: I left around 2:00, 2:15. Dan was still in the office. And that was the last I saw, 2:15, that Saturday, Nancy.

GRACE: And he remained in the office? How far away is his office from his home?

GOLDE: Oh, on a Saturday, he could probably get to his home in 45 minutes.

GRACE: Ivan, do you have any sense -- there`s been a lot of speculation. He was right in the middle of a very high-profile defense of Susan Polk, been all over the airwaves.

GOLDE: Yes.

GRACE: A lot of suggestions have been made that this could be in relation to the Polk case. You know, in criminal law, we subject our friends and our families to a different type of element, the criminal element. What is your thought?

GOLDE: Well, I do understand that, Nancy. And as you know, I was Dan`s co-counsel in the Susan Polk case. Was this connected to the Susan Polk case? It`s speculation. Was it? I don`t think so. Was it connected to some other case? It`s a possibility, Nancy. I know this for a fact...

GRACE: Ivan, Ivan...

GOLDE: Yes?

GRACE: ... did Daniel carry a gun?

GOLDE: Yes, he did, Nancy. Yes, he did.

GRACE: Why?

GOLDE: And he received threats from time to time. You have to understand that Dan represented some of the worst of the worst, major drug cases, murder cases, on and on. And he did receive threats. And he had to carry a weapon. And he even had to get people of his property from time to time, trespassers, et cetera. Dan had to protect himself, Nancy. He received threats. He was...

GRACE: You know, I was asked the other day about the six-foot fence and why his German shepherd dogs did not attack the attacker. Have you met those two dogs...

GOLDE: Yes.

GRACE: ... that attack you to lick you?

GOLDE: Yes.

GRACE: These dogs are not attack dogs.

GOLDE: They`re beautiful dogs. These dogs are man`s best friend. Dan loves those dogs. They`re not vicious watchdogs. That`s not what`s going on here, Nancy. That`s not what`s going on. This is just -- I`m so, so sad, Nancy.

GRACE: We have been asked many questions regarding Pamela Vitale`s funeral. This is what Daniel had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOROWITZ: I`m not saying I`m going to do anything. I`m just saying nothing at this point matters. What does it matter what I do? It doesn`t matter.

GRACE: What are you going to do about Pamela`s funeral?

HOROWITZ: We`ll have a funeral, which I hope people will let us keep private, with just our friends. And it`s going to be the way I believe she wanted it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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GRACE: Tonight, Court TV, 11:00 p.m. Eastern, the rest of the interview with Daniel Horowitz. His plan, along with Pamela`s, to fight back, if necessary. And Daniel Horowitz on being thought of as a suspect in his wife`s murder.

Welcome back, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace.

We are broadcasting live from California tonight outside Daniel`s home.

Straight out to Dr. Kathy Reichs, forensic anthropologist. Kathy, how will they determine the time of death? I see that is integral.

DR. KATHY REICHS, FORENSIC ANTHROPOLOGIST: Yes. That`s going to be really critical, not only time of death but time of attack, because the death didn`t necessarily take place at the time of attack.

They`re going to look at the big three. They`re going to look at -- the first thing, the algor mortis, rigor mortis, and livor mortis. Algor is the cooling of the body. And that`s the first thing that takes place. And it occurs at a regular rate.

Rigor mortis, we all know about. That`s the stiffening of the body, with the chemical changes in the muscles. And then lividity (ph), the settling of the blood within the blood vessels, which turns the lower part of the body purple.

Those are going to get some indication of time of death.

GRACE: Right.

REICHS: They`re also going to look at things like stomach content and when she had her last meal, and that`s going to help, as well, to pinpoint that.

GRACE: Lauren Howard, very quickly, what can you tell me about rage killing?

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: This was a personal crime. This was a personal murder. This was not a random murder. There was a big show of blood here. There was something for someone to look at, to be horrified by.

It was done on purpose and it was done to make a statement, presumably, to Daniel Horowitz. I think that the net here is huge of who the suspects could be.

GRACE: Dr. Lauren Howard and all of my guests, thank you. But most of all, I want to thank you for inviting us into your homes tonight here from California.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world, Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. And remember, Court TV, 11:00 sharp Eastern, the rest of Daniel`s interview regarding the murder of his wife, our friend, Pamela Vitale.

I`ll see you here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, goodbye, friend.

END