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Mark Geragos Discusses Mark Horowitz; Ed Bradley Interviews Michael Jordan; Interview With Charlize Theron; Interview With Niki Caro

Aired October 19, 2005 - 21:00   ET


LARRY KING, CNN HOST: Tonight, the latest on a shocking murder of the wife of prominent lawyer Daniel Horowitz, joining us his friend high profile attorney Mark Geragos.
And then, Ed Bradley of "60 Minutes," on the gambling revelations and his big Michael Jordan interview this Sunday.

And, all the news of the day too.

Plus, Charlize Theron, one of the world's most beautiful women and one of Hollywood's biggest stars. She put on 30 pounds to play a serial killer and won an Oscar and now getting more Oscar buzz for her latest movie. But her own life story is wilder than any movie script.

It's all next on LARRY KING LIVE.

Good evening, a couple notes. Tomorrow night, Bob Shapiro, the famed criminal defense attorney will be with us, along with his wife Lanelle (ph). His son died of an overdose ten days ago, important tomorrow night, Bob Shapiro and his wife.

Before we talk with Mark Geragos, let's check in with Chad Myers at the CNN Weather Center. All right how bad is Wilma?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: The worst storm ever on record, Larry. I came in this morning four o'clock. This storm is stronger than any storm you've ever heard of, Camille, Katrina, Rita, Andrew. Name the name, name the storm in the Atlantic Basin, not in the Pacific, it's a bigger ocean, totally different set of circumstances out there, this storm was deeper and more powerful than any one as we woke up this morning.

Now, it's a little bit up there. It's still just to the north, just above what Gilbert was when it made landfall. The pressures are phenomenal. By Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday this storm is making a big right-hand turn right into Florida, at least that's the forecast.

Now, let me debunk this forecast. Let me prove it. I can go both ways on this thing. Here is the storm right here, a very large and dangerous category five storm. Category five starts at about 156 and then goes up from there. There is no category six, no matter how far it goes. It can go to 190, still a category five.

There's the storm. Look at the wobble. Look at this back and forth and back and forth, Larry. This is all because there's not much of a steering current down there. There's nothing to push it in one way.

Think of like when you're riding your bike and you're coming to a stop. At the very last minute you got to use your handlebars to kind of keep it from falling over. This thing is kind of going wobbling back and forth. But this was an amazing and still is an amazing storm.

KING: Thank you, Chad, we'll check back with you at the bottom of the hour.

Mark Geragos returns, the famed defense attorney, friend and colleague of Daniel Horowitz. The San Francisco Chronicle reporting, Mark that they have found DNA evidence at the scene does that surprise you?

MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Not at all. I mean last night when we talked about it and you heard about what kind of a struggle it was and what kind of -- apparently what's being reported how heavily beaten and bludgeoned she was, it would be shocking if they didn't find any DNA evidence.

And, as we said last night, I think it's just a matter of time for them to run through the forensics in terms of determining or eliminating certain people and going down other roads.

KING: And making arrests?

GERAGOS: Well, making arrests if they've got positive DNA evidence, if there's DNA evidence that is not the same as some of the people that are up there at the top of the list, then they've got to kind of work their way down.

KING: Isn't there -- is there a cloud of suspicion still over Horowitz? I know you know him and like him very much and...

GERAGOS: Yes, I like Dan and I...

KING: But he touched the body.

GERAGOS: And there's always going to be a cloud of suspicion until some arrest is made. I'm told, I talked with Ted Rowlands earlier today and Ted says that he talked with, this is multiple hearsay, he talked with the officers there and that they watched the interview that you were showing last night and watched it, to quote Ted, in a professional setting. So, everybody is going to get scrutinized until they get back some information that definitively points one way or another.

KING: While we never know what we would do coming upon such a circumstance, does it surprise you that he touched the crime scene?

GERAGOS: No. I don't -- I think one of the great misnomers of criminal law and human behavior is that there is some play book that everybody adheres to that you're supposed to when you grieve or when you find somebody or that you're supposed to react a certain way. I don't think that there's any way that anybody is acting that is normal.

There's what we have in our mind as a Hollywood idea of what you should do in a certain situation. You should fall to pieces or you're stoic but I don't think that -- I think that's make believe.

KING: Surprising that he's doing interviews that he did a tour of his house?

GERAGOS: A little bit.

KING: Is that surprising to you?

GERAGOS: A little bit in the sense that you -- everybody copes differently at loss. I mean you have Bob Shapiro coming on later this week who has had one of the worst losses, if there is -- if you can grade a loss of a loved one, having your child, losing your child. I don't know how anybody goes on from that. I've talked to you about that based on all the stories we've done in the past. But I just don't know that there's any one right way to grieve or do anything else. Everybody works through their pain differently.

KING: In a TV interview tonight, Horowitz said, "She fought like hell." How would he know that?

GERAGOS: I would assume when he saw her one of the first things that you would see is either clothing torn, you would see defensive or offensive type wounds on the inside of the palms. You would see around the knuckle area if somebody hit and there were abrasions. You would see on the face if somebody had been clawed, if there was blood that was down on the hands as well.

You would know that those are what are traditionally called defensive type wounds, which means somebody had put up a fight. If there was also just a trail of blood or clothing or things knocked down indicating that there was a great struggle. That would also be indicative.

One of the other things that's somewhat interesting, I think, is the area where she was described as being found inside the front door would tend to suggest that it was somebody who had come to the door and immediately got into it with her, as opposed to being farther into the house where maybe it was somebody she knew who she invited in or somebody who let themselves in and went all the way through to the end of the bedroom and knew where they were going. It seems like at least that if she was found right at the front door that that would indicate that somebody confronted her almost immediately.

KING: This fellow Lynch we discussed last night would he be considered in your eyes from this vantage point prime suspect?

GERAGOS: Well, I think he himself said that he was and that he understood it and, you know, to some degree I think that makes sense. Ivan Campbell (ph), who you had on last night, who is Dan's co-counsel in the Polk case, said at first he wasn't going to identify anyone who was a suspect.

KING: Then he did.

GERAGOS: And then you saw his reaction once Lynch's name was brought up. It's obvious at least to me that they believe that this guy is a prime candidate for investigation.

KING: Don't you look at a lot of other things, cases he's tried, workers at the scene, I mean?

GERAGOS: The first thing that came to my mind obviously is because of the kind of work that Dan does, criminal defense, is a disgruntled client. You know a lot of people often talk about prosecutors or judges. You'd be surprised at how often clients are mad at their lawyers and blame their lawyers.

Along those lines, it's my understanding that Dan is looking, and I haven't talked to him so I don't know, but I've been told that he's looking to former clients to get waivers so that their files can be looked at by the police to see if there's anybody who is disgruntled or may have a problem or, you know, it would suggest at least because he's carrying around a gun that he has some fear of somebody who's...

KING: Why take it out on the wife?

GERAGOS: Well, who knows whether he -- the person, you know, this is not -- generally this is an act that you don't imagine a rational person doing.


GERAGOS: If the person got up there and knew that that's where he lived, expected to find Dan and instead found the wife and in a rage she tells him to get out or this or that that's an explanation.

KING: When it's this horrific a scene what indication is that to you?

GERAGOS: Well, I think last night we said and I probably would reiterate that it was a rage type killing, meaning that somebody, that there was some immediacy to it, that there was something that was driving it.

It obviously does not appear to be a burglary gone bad. It does not appear at least to me to be some disgruntled worker who didn't get paid because you would expect that that person would get into fisticuffs and then just leave, you know, and not kind of snap. This appears to be somebody who either snapped or had some kind of rage when they went up there to execute this.

KING: I speak for everyone that's welcoming you back. It's good to have you on the scene and we'll be seeing lots of you through cases like this.

GERAGOS: Thanks, Larry, good to be back.

KING: Mark Geragos.

And when we come back one of my favorite people in the business, Ed Bradley, been with "60 Minutes" 25 years and he's got a heck of a one coming up Sunday night.

We'll be right back.


DANIEL HOROWITZ, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I dialed the regular police number and then I just was with her and I just -- I know exactly what I said in between, you know, you scream, you cry, but I know I just basically sat with her and I just told her "I love you" and "You're beautiful" and, you know, just whatever things you say to somebody you love because to me at that point all that was there was the person I love.



KING: Charlize Theron at the bottom of the hour. She's in a terrific new movie.

Ed Bradley is a terrific correspondent. He works, of course, for "60 Minutes." He joins us from New York. It's his 25th season on that acclaimed program. He's earned 19 Emmys, including one for lifetime achievement. He has a "60 Minutes" interview with Michael Jordan, who discusses his gambling openly for the first time.

It's part of the concept of Jordan's new book that he has coming out called "Driven from Within." It is published by Simon and Shuster. In all fairness, Simon and Shuster, like CBS, is owned by Viacom. The Jordan -- what does he say about gambling? It's always been said that he is a compulsive gambler, Ed.

ED BRADLEY, CBS NEWS "60 MINUTES" CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, he told me that his -- I quoted to him what his father had said that he didn't have a gambling problem. He had a competition problem. And Michael admitted that sometimes he went too far.

I mean he says pretty much that he pushed the envelope and he is very competitive and he was competitive at the gaming table and he did things that, you know, in retrospect when you get up the next morning and look at it you wish that you hadn't gone that far but he did.

KING: Do you examine or does he examine why?

BRADLEY: It's because he's so competitive. I mean this is a guy who has a will to win. I mean the name of the book "Driven from Within," he is driven. I mean he told me that no one in his family thought that he would be the one to succeed and that was the thing that fueled that fire that he has within himself.

He was so competitive, Larry, at the '92 Olympics, the so-called Dream Team, Chuck Daley (ph) was the coach, one day in Barcelona they played golf and Chuck Daley beat Michael Jordan at golf.

Four o'clock in the morning he knocked on his door, said let's go. Let's get up. Let's go back out to the golf course. The sun is coming up soon. We need to play again. Chuck wouldn't play him again.

The next time he played his team, he was coaching the Nets then, he said Michael Jordan threw in about 50 points and late in the game he was killing his team. He ran by the bench and he said to Chuck Daley, "Don't ever beat me at golf again." That's how competitive this guy is.

KING: Did he discuss why he played such high stakes too? I watched him in Vegas one night. He had the only table at blackjack. He had three different hands going at $10,000 a pop. Why did he need that kind of -- that kind of...

BRADLEY: Well, I think it's because...

KING: ...anxiety?

BRADLEY: I think it's because he has that kind of money. One thing he said he would not do anything to jeopardize his family, his livelihood or his family, so he never pushed it that far that I think he thought he would lose more than he could afford to lose.

So, I mean here's a guy who makes $35 million a year now just from endorsements and he's not even playing basketball, so he could play three hands of $10,000 a pop at one time and if he lost $30,000 on one hand or on those three hands, he could afford to lose it.

KING: Is he still gambling?

BRADLEY: You know, I think he -- I think Michael Jordan would gamble on anything. I had a friend -- I had a friend Hunter Thompson, the late Hunter Thompson.

KING: Yes, I knew him.

BRADLEY: We used to watch basketball games together and Hunter would say, "I bet Duke scores this time" and I'd say, "Well, I'm not sure." He said, "OK, I bet they don't." I think Michael Jordan is the same way.

KING: Does he discuss the murder of his father?

BRADLEY: He did and I was surprised that he wasn't, he wasn't bitter. He said it's sad that a human being could do that to another human being but he said he had to look at it this way that he had his father for 32 years. And he asked me how many kids grow up having their father with them for 32 years with the kind of attention I got from my dad? And he has to live with that.

KING: Critics of Michael and Tiger Woods both say that they should be more political, more outspoken, more involved in the racial issue. Did you discuss that? BRADLEY: We did talk about that and Michael said that he is at heart an entertainer and he can't live his life for anyone else. And, I asked him about people like Muhammad Ali in his day when he stood up against the Vietnam War, Arthur Ashe when he took on apartheid in South Africa and so many other causes, Jackie Robinson who broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball. And, Michael Jordan said in essence, "I am who I am and I'm an entertainer and I don't have to live my life that way if I don't want to."

KING: And how did you react to that?

BRADLEY: I think everybody is entitled to do what they want to do with their own life. I mean I can't put my morals, my ethics, my drive on someone else. I mean when it's -- there was a song many years ago when it's time for me to die, I'm the one who has to die. So, I can't put what I feel on Michael Jordan.

Now, if I think he should be more outspoken politically that he should take a side in some political issues but he doesn't feel that way and I can't put my standards on him.

KING: Do you find him likeable?

BRADLEY: Oh, tremendously.

KING: I like him a lot.

BRADLEY: He's a likeable guy. He lights up the screen. He is amazing. I mean it was so much fun. I don't know if you know that we saw him in Las Vegas for part of the interview. He does these camps twice a year.

KING: Yes, I know.

BRADLEY: Once with kids, once with older guys. Watching him with these guys who largely play basketball on the weekends he was as intense with them as he would be with NBA players. Why? Because he wants to give them the Michael Jordan experience. I mean and that goes to trash talking too. Michael Jordan was a world class basketball player.

KING: World class.

BRADLEY: He's also a world class trash talker.

KING: We'll take a break and when we come back more with Ed Bradley. The interview airs Sunday night and here's a clip from it.


MICHAEL JORDAN: Yes, I've gotten myself into situations where I would not walk away and I pushed the envelope.

BRADLEY: Is that compulsive?

JORDAN: It depends on how you look at it. If you're willing to jeopardize your livelihood and your family then yes.

BRADLEY: And you're not willing to do that?


BRADLEY: Your father said that Michael doesn't have a gambling problem. He has a...

JORDAN: Competitive problem.

BRADLEY: ...competition, competitive problem.


BRADLEY: What did he mean by that?

JORDAN: You know, I want to go out on a limb and win.



KING: Ed Bradley's interview with Michael Jordan airs Sunday night.

I want to cover a couple of other bases. Was it tough to go down to the hurricane? I know you have special feelings for New Orleans.

BRADLEY: You know, it was one of the most difficult stories I've ever covered, Larry. I've been going to New Orleans since 1976, often several times a year. I've been down twice since the hurricane. I've never been to New Orleans and not had fun until I went the week after the hurricane.

I didn't hear music. I didn't smell gumbo. I didn't hear laughter. It was a real tragedy and it continues to be a tragedy because it's a city that's largely empty. Even though the mayor has asked people to start coming back, it's a city that's populated primarily by contractors who are doing clean up.

KING: The CIA leak story how big do you expect it to -- do you expect indictments? Is there any way to predict that?

BRADLEY: I don't think there's any way to predict that. I don't think anyone has an inside track to what Mr. Fitzgerald is going to do. I think from everything I heard it's about to wrap up probably sometime next week and there are a couple of choices that he has.

He can -- he can do nothing. He can pack up and go home and not even issue a final report. I think there would be a political firestorm if he did that, if there are no indictments and he does not issue a final report but he can do that. He can pack up his tent and go home and say that's it.

KING: What's your feeling about Judith Martin?

BRADLEY: Judith Martin?

KING: Judith Miller, I'm sorry.

BRADLEY: Judith Miller.

KING: Yes.

BRADLEY: You know, I feel sorry for her having spent, what was it, 80 days in jail?

KING: Yes.

BRADLEY: I don't know why she spent 80 days in jail because if you are to believe Scooter Libby he gave her clearance to disclose who he was a year ago. Now, unless that wasn't absolutely clear, I don't know why she went to jail. I mean I accept the fact that it wasn't clear in her mind but I wish there had been some way to make it clear so she wouldn't have had to spend that time in jail.

I think the principle for which she went to jail is really one of the foundations of this country that we live in the right to use -- for the press to use sources to come forward with stories.

Just imagine what happens, not just in governments but in corporations, where something is being done that hurts the population at large or in the case of a corporation the shareholders where someone is breaking the law and someone comes forward and says, "I'd like to let you know about this but you have to protect my identity." I think if we lose that we lose something very important in this country.

KING: Condy Rice said yesterday that the United States troops might be in Iraq ten years from now. Did that surprise you?

BRADLEY: You know, I looked at her testimony and I don't think she said flat out we might be there ten years from now. When Senator Sarbanes questioned her I think he said, "It sounds to me as if you're not -- you're saying -- you can't say that ten years we won't be there" and she kept saying "I don't want to speculate about time."

Secretary of State Rice has a good way of talking around the question that is asked without giving a direct answer but I think it's a fact. I mean if you look at what is happening in Iraq today and what has happened over the last couple of years, I can certainly see a scenario where ten years down the line American troops are still in Iraq.

KING: We know you're not here to defend the whole network but Clinton supporters are angry over the Louis Freeh interview claiming you didn't give them the -- your program didn't give them the opportunity to respond.

BRADLEY: Well, I'm sure that Mike Wallace asked President Clinton if he would like to respond and my understanding is that he didn't want to go on the air and make a response, at least that's my understanding. KING: Ed, the trial of Saddam Hussein, I guess we got a 40 day delay.

BRADLEY: Yes. You know, I thought that was just such interesting theater to watch where Saddam Hussein tries to stand up to this judge and doesn't want to recognize him, says "I didn't appoint you. You don't have any authority." But in the end, he was forced to sit down and listen to this judge, who is the law in Iraq and that really has to be hard for him to stomach.

I mean the tussle that he had with the guards on the way out, "Take your hands off me," you know, sort of do you know who I am? You know and it's really like well do you know who I used to be?

KING: One other thing, this Sunday at least "60 Minutes" will have only one sponsor, Phillips Electronics. They're paying $2 million for the whole program less commercial breaks. What do you make of that?

BRADLEY: You know I think it's a great idea and I mean frankly I hope more companies will follow the lead of Phillips. I think it's a brilliant idea. From their point of view they're saying that we have a classy product and we'd like to show it on a -- to advertise it on a classy broadcast and we don't have to have as many commercials to tell you how good our product is.

And what that does for us as reporters there is it gives us more time to tell a story, I mean and it's a really -- it's really a wonderful opportunity, as you would know, to sit down and say, OK, I don't have 12 minutes. Hey, I've got 14 minutes here. It's amazing what you can do with two more minutes.

KING: You're not kidding. Ed, will the Jordan story, I would imagine, lead the show?

BRADLEY: You know, I don't know what the lineup is. I think we will probably have a harder news story to lead the broadcast. As good as Jordan is, it could certainly be a lead story but, you know, Jeff Feager (ph) makes that decision. You know, he succeeded Don Hewitt and he's as good at making that decision as Don was what goes first.

KING: Always good seeing you, Ed. Stay in good health. You look great.

BRADLEY: Thank you, Larry.

KING: Ed Bradley, look for his interview on CBS "60 Minutes" Sunday night. He's earned 19 Emmys. His interview with Michael Jordan in advance of the publication of Michael's book "Driven from Within."

Charlize Theron is next, extraordinary actress, beautiful lady, South African and she's in a new movie called "North Country" that is incredible.

We'll be right back. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Before we talk with Charlize Theron, let's get an update with Chad Myers. Chad are you saying that Wilma's going to hit Florida?

MYERS: I'm not, Larry. Because I now believe with some of these computer models that it could actually turn and go through the Florida Straits. I know that's The Hurricane Center's forecast, but I just want to put that out there because everybody's just panicked about this storm now.

It's the strongest storm, it's the lowest pressure that anybody's ever seen. They flew the plane through it today and they never have seen such a low pressure, not Andrew, Camille or anything -- any other storm in the Atlantic basin, not this deep. There's the storm, kind of wobbling right now. And you ask yourself, well, you know, how do they measure that, because obviously no one was at the bottom?

This hasn't hit anything yet. It's only down there by the water is where the pressure was the lowest. They actually fly the plane straight through the eye and then they drop something called the dropsondes right into the eye. The plane let's it go, falls all the way down to the water.

Right before it hits the water it measures the pressure. And this was the lowest pressure they've ever seen, that they've ever recorded. They took the plane back, they went and calibrated everything and they confirmed that this was the strongest storm at least for awhile.

Now here's what we're looking for. Earlier in the day, all of the computer models -- the spaghetti thing we talk about all the time -- all of them over Florida. But now, Larry, some of them, some of the latest ones that have just been running are taking the storm into the Yucatan -- there's Cancun right there -- taking the storm into the Yucatan and then turning it to the east, south of even Cuba.

That would be great news for Florida, not such great news for our friends in Cuba. But I'll tell you what, it would probably save an awful lot of lives this way. Back to you.

KING: Thanks. Chad will be up and around the clock on this.

We welcome to LARRY KING LIVE, first time visit for Charlize Theron. What a great actress and her new film which opens this weekend is "North Country." She won the Oscar for "Monster" in 2004. This is -- you going to play a pretty girl in the next film?

CHARLIZE THERON, ACTRESS: I have. I played Britt Ekland in "The Life and Death of Peter Sellers."

KING: Oh, that's right. In between. You really ...

THERON: Yes, but Josey Aimes is I think a beautiful woman, I think. KING: She's a beautiful woman.

THERON: And it's made a huge -- you know, there's a huge point in the film that she was kind of the girl in high school that got all the boys, and got herself into, you know, some really bad relationships. But I think even when Woody's character says, you know, you're a beautiful girl, you know.

KING: Oh, I'm only kidding. You're gorgeous.

THERON: No, she's a great ...

KING: But she's a coal miner.

THERON: Well, she works in a steel mine in an iron mine.

KING: First women to work in the mines. It's a true story, right?

THERON: Yes. The events are inspired by true stories. The character is fiction, fictionalized. She wasn't the first but she was one of the first women to go and work.

KING: What attracted you to this role?

THERON: I thought that the story was just -- you know, for me as a woman, I read it and I couldn't believe that this case was only really settled seven years ago. It was the first sexual harassment class action suit ever filed.

And I, you know, I think that was the thing that kind of got me as a woman, you know, that we kind of sit back and we think everything's good, you know? Some bras were burned in the '60s and the feminist movement happened and everything is fine. And that's not the case. So that was the first thing. And then Niki Caro, who ...

KING: Who we'll meet at the end, the director.

THERON: Yes, she was the thing that really -- the person who really kind of pulled me into really, really wanting to do this.

KING: Was it a tough shoot?

THERON: Yes, they're always tough. I don't ever want it to be easy. I mean it's tough for different reasons. We had to go into the community where the story really took place. We had to reassure some people that we weren't there to take advantage of them. They're, you know -- it was sometimes 40 below. These characters go through a lot.

KING: They do.

THERON: Every single day was quite demanding too. I mean, and that's just -- you know, I think we shot for 48 days. I can't imagine years and years and years of that.

KING: Do you like working with a cast that's that good? THERON: No, I really like them to be bad.

KING: No, no, no. I mean it this way -- does it make everybody better when everybody's good?

THERON: Oh, God yes. Yes and it keeps you on your toes. And you realize that you ...

KING: Is it pressure?

THERON: Yes, but good pressure. You know, I mean, I remember the first day that I really -- like my first principal photography day is the scene with Richard Jenkins, my dad, who kind of stands up and delivers this really beautiful speech about how he kind of acknowledges his daughter for the first time in her life. And that was my first day and I just kind of went I'm going to have to stay on my toes.

KING: That's the tough part about movies. That was the first scene. And that's one of the last scenes in the movie.


KING: Isn't it hard to play out of sync?

THERON: It's hard. But then you know, sometimes it works in your advantage. I mean, I fought tooth and nail to not shoot that scene first up. And Niki was really being helpful. I mean, she just said there's just nothing we can do because of the scheduling and just how, you know, logistics of film making is not always smooth sailing.

But I think in the long run, it was to my advantage because I walked in to that room and I really felt like an outcast. I really felt like ...

KING: Really?

THERON: Oh, God, yes, that was the most frightening thing I've ever done in my career.

KING: Wow. What about Frances McDormand who is just -- how do you describe her?

THERON: She is just -- there are no words in the dictionary to describe her. She really is -- she's an icon to me. She is as -- she really, to me, is the best actress out there right now.

KING: The best?

THERON: Yes. For sure. Fearless, the most real, the most breathtaking in watching her.

KING: She plays a character who gets Lou Gehrig's disease, and a friend of mine, as I told you, said he thought she had it.

THERON: There you go. It doesn't get any better than that. KING: Where is your accent?

THERON: My South African accent?

KING: Yes.

THERON: Well I was raised in Afrikaans, so I never spoke English as a South African, and when I came here I really learned English as an American.

KING: Explain that you spoke English as a ...

THERON: I had English as a second language. I was raised in what used to be the first language of South Africa, Afrikaans. I had all my schooling in Afrikaans. In the area that I was raised nobody spoke English.

KING: Give me some Afrikaans.


KING: That means we'll be right back. More with Charlize Theron, this terrific movie. I saw it last week. It is a great film. Could win a -- just might win her another ...


KING: "North Country." We'll be right back.


THERON: I know some of you here think I want to shut down the mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't worry sweetheart. We're not going to let it happen.

THERON: I don't want to shut down the mines. I just want to go to work like everyone else, get paid end of the week, feed my kids, and maybe now and then have enough left for a beer at T.G. Saturday night. And not a woman in that back row don't know what I'm talking about. You all know what's been done.


THERON: We need these jobs. It's not going to stop until we say stop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three minute rule. You're done.

THERON: There's no three minute rule.




THERON: People kill each other every day. And for what? Hmm? For politics. For religion. And they're heroes. No. No. There's a lot (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a can't do anymore but killing's not one of them. And letting those (EXPLETIVE DELETED) bastards rape somebody else isn't either.


KING: That's Charlize Theron in "Monster." Did you have any hesitation taking that part?

THERON: Sure. Yes.

KING: That was rolling dice.

THERON: So was this. I mean, they're all so different. You know, they're really -- they're like children, you know. They just -- they all have their own problems, and own fears, and their own process. I mean not one film has been the same process for me. With the exception of, you know, having a really great partnership with my director.

KING: Anthony Quinn told me trouble is that when a movie ends, you've been this person for a period of time, and then suddenly, you're not anymore.


KING: It's hard to leave.

THERON: It is, and then it isn't. I mean, because I don't -- I think you really, you create a great love, and understanding of somebody so completely different from you. But I -- I don't want this to sound the wrong way but I kind of love myself. I don't have issues with my own personality so it's good to go back to that.

I don't have -- I go through like maybe like a two or three week period where I think it's more about not seeing the crew and not seeing the actors on an everyday basis that that's -- that whole part of it is so cold turkey. And then letting go of I think emotions that are kind of still boiling underneath your skin that you don't necessarily know about.

But my life is really -- I really love my life. So I'm always really ready and excited to go back to that. I'm not -- I never really get torn in to this, you know -- and I try to do that every night when I go home to go back to me, and Charlize.

I think it's -- that's when I do my best work, because I get a good night's rest and I go to work the next day and I have the energy to go to this other person's really deep and dark place.

KING: So what you're saying here is you're pretty normal?

THERON: I would -- I am going to call myself that. Some might disagree with me and say that...

KING: You go to work and you go home like other people do.

THERON: Yes. I don't like -- you know, I'm not a very effective actor when I work that way. And I've...

KING: When you live the part 24 hours.

THERON: Yes, I used to do that when I was younger. Because I really -- I wasn't really trained as an actor, per se. And I, you know, read books on Marlon Brando and Montgomery Clift. And I just thought you have to go and just kill yourself. And if you're not that person every single day then it's not going to be the best work that it possibly can be. And then I -- I thought God this is so sad. Because I love this job so much but this is going to kill me. I can't do this for the rest of my life.

KING: You overcame tragedy in your life.

THERON: Oh, we all do, don't we?

KING: No. But not many see death at an early age.

THERON: I -- well, you know, I think everybody, you know, we all have our own skeletons in our closet. We always experience -- I think we sometimes think in movie terms. We think like, oh, that must be this one event is the one thing that's going to just I mean sometimes you get affected by things in very different ways.

KING: You come out all right.

THERON: Yes. You got to survive. You get thrown into the deep end you're going to drown or you're going to swim. Those are the two choices.

KING: She swims. "North Country" swims. What a movie. We'll be right back.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Given how obviously emotional this has been for you, we're willing to do something special in this case. We've decided to waive the two-week requirement and allow you to tender your resignation effective immediately.

THERON: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm not resigning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Pappage (ph) will take care of the details.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'd be happy to.

THERON: No! I'm not quitting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well then I suggest you spend less time stirring up your female coworkers and less time in the beds of your married male coworkers and more time trying to find ways to improve your job performance.



THERON: Meaning every part of me gives me erotic pleasure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how sensitive does that make you?

THERON: Well, if you touch my thighs, my hands, my neck, my kneecaps, I'm orgasmic.


KING: That's from "Celebrity" directed by Woody. What was Woody like to work for?

THERON: Amazing. Very unusual. Very nerve-racking. I'm a huge, huge Woody Allen fan. So to get the opportunity not only once, but twice was just such a great gift. And it got some -- I had to get used to it. Because he doesn't direct you if he's happy.

KING: He what?

THERON: He doesn't direct you if he's happy. And so...

KING: You want him to be unhappy?

THERON: No, but I thought because he wasn't directing and he wasn't very communicative that he was maybe just really unhappy with me. And you know, as actors, you know, we constantly want a little pat on the back. But he's -- actually what makes him so great is that he doesn't. He just lets you be.

He gives you the stage, and a great canvas to work from, a great writing and then he lets you go and make your own choices. And a lot of times I'd come up to him and be like, well, how do you think I should, you know, play this? And he's like, whatever feels right. Just go do that. See it takes some getting used to. It's very different.

KING: Are you easy to direct?

THERON: I don't know.

KING: We'll ask the director.

THERON: I think you should ask her.

KING: You enjoyed being other people or is that unfair? Is it always you in the other person?

THERON: I think there's always an essence but no it's not me. I mean, I think it's an understanding and a love, and I think it comes from a great love for just -- I mean, I just love human nature. I'm fascinated by human nature. I'm fascinated by how we behave in certain circumstances.

KING: Why people do what they do.

THERON: Yes, and what we're capable of. And I love that. So I don't ever feel like I'm playing me. And I don't think I'd ever want to play me. Because that would be really boring.

KING: Do you have to like the person you're playing?

THERON: I think so. I mean I think even if you don't -- let's say you don't like them, you have to have an understanding, and I think you have to be open to the benefit of the doubt. You have to be open to the gray areas. Even if you disagree with what they're doing, you have to be able to kind of put yourself in their shoes and understand their circumstances.

KING: Because they don't look in the mirror and say I'm bad.

THERON: We never do that, do we?

KING: We'll be right back -- I'm going to get it right -- with Charlize Theron. Did I get it right.

THERON: Very good.

KING: I'm getting it wrong also. Well, let's see because it's hard to look straight ...


KING: Come on Charlize.

THERON: You're such a flirt.

KING: I was going to say you were. You're going to get married, aren't you?


KING: You're not going to marry this guy?

THERON: No, I'm married already to him.

KING: Oh, you married him?

THERON: No, I didn't marry him in the classic, you know, paper ...

KING: Oh, you married him in the -- soul married?

THERON: Yes. I'm done. I mean, you know, but it's not -- look, my mom just got married. I'm all for people getting married and if that's what you want then that's beautiful. It's just not what we want.

KING: Want children? THERON: Yes. Very much.

KING: I wasn't flirting.

THERON: I'm glad you flirted. Put him a little bit on his toes.

KING: Yes, worry. We'll be back and we'll meet the director, Niki Caro, right after this.


THERON: Privacy. Is what driving movies are all about so scrunch down like this. Come on, scrunch down. All the way. And then give me your arm. Put your arm around me. Just cuddle and hug and, you know, you don't really watch the movie.




THERON: Pop, we got a house. We got the loan and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well congratulations.

THERON: You act like I'm stealing. I work damn hard every day, same as you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh. Now you're the same as me?

THERON: Oh, no. There's a few differences. You don't go to work scared of what they're going to write about you on the walls or what kind of disgusting thing you might find in your locker. You don't want to be scared that one of these days you'll come into work and get raped.



KING: What a movie. It's "North Country" with Charlize Theron, and we're now joined by Niki Caro who directed it. Her previous credits include the acclaimed "Whale Rider." How did you and this script come together?

NIKI CARO, DIRECTOR, "NORTH COUNTRY": The script came to me, actually, after the success of "Whale Rider," I got offered a lot of things. I got offered a lot of scripts concerning large mammals and small children. But it was this one that -- I just couldn't put it down.

KING: So you loved it right away?

CARO: Yes.

KING: Did you choose Charlize?

CARO: Oh, big time, yes.

KING: No one else in mind for it?

CARO: No. No one else. I'd seen "Monster" and I was really perplexed at time by the amount of attention that her physical transformation was getting when what she was doing emotionally as an actor was so skillful, and so compassionate. And I was just knocked sideways by her. Had to have her for this.

KING: You like being directed by women? And ...

THERON: Yes. I like to be directed by good directors. And this is one of the best directors that I've ever been directed by. And what I like when I say that is that she, you know -- I think people think, you know, when you're working with a woman director that it's just all female, and you know, telling female stories, and the great thing about Niki is that she is a understanding of the human condition. She understands the struggle of the men just as well as she understands the struggle of the females.

KING: Do you understand the challenge of a big Hollywood film with major stars? That was not the case previously.


KING: Do you feel pressured?

CARO: Look, I didn't, because all of these actors, they're so great but as great as they are talented and skilled they are brilliant human beings. And I enjoy them so much on a personal level. And it was a thrill to collaborate with them. So every day was just a really good day at the office.

KING: Sexual harassment still relevant today, do you think?

THERON: It was only settled seven years ago.

KING: Seven years ago.

THERON: And this was the first. The first. I think that's very relevant. I mean, for somebody like me, you know, I'm -- my generation I think, you know, we sit back and think everything's fine. And it's not. And this isn't something that just happens in rural communities. This is happening everywhere.

KING: What's next for you, Niki?

CARO: I'm going to go home to New Zealand and roll around on the ground with my baby girl.

KING: No film projects settled?

CARO: No. KING: You're going to get a lot of offers. I mean, you're right, Charlize. In fact she's going to produce two films. You might call her.

THERON: Look, I will clean her house. I mean this is how much I love the woman. I'll do anything. Anything with Niki.

KING: I salute you Niki, great job.

CARO: Thank you.

KING: Charlize ...

THERON: Thank you.

KING: ... great finally having you on.

THERON: Thank you so much.

KING: I wasn't flirting. Well, kind of. Charlize Theron.

Tomorrow night, Robert Shapiro will be with us, the criminal defense attorney whose son, 24-year-old Brent died of an overdose just ten days ago wants to come on and talk about being a parent and dealing with drug abuse. His wife Lanelle may join us as well. That's tomorrow night.

Right now, Anderson Cooper and Aaron Brown. Anderson is in New Orleans; Aaron is in New York. And NEWSNIGHT is next, guys.


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