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Tom DeLay Appears In Court Today; Hurricane Wilma Hitting Cancun

Aired October 21, 2005 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Give you a news flash for the morning.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: I would certainly not appreciate that.

MILES O'BRIEN: All right.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Fredricka Whitfield's at the CNN Center. She's going to be taking you through the next couple of hours.

Hey, Fred, good morning.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, good morning to you. Just trying to keep you informed.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: Yes, I appreciate that. E-mail me.

WHITFIELD: You know, we don't want you to get rusty while you're on vacation.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN: E-mail. Thank you. E-mail.

WHITFIELD: All right. Thanks a lot. You all have a great day.

I'm Fredricka Whitfield at the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Two big stories we're following that the hour. On one side of your screen, you see the latest satellite image of Hurricane Wilma. The category four storm now whipping Mexico. Also on your screen, a Texas courtroom where Congressman Tom DeLay is set to face charges.

Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay is making his first court appearance this hour inside a courtroom in Austin, Texas. The Texas congressman was booked yesterday in Houston on charges of conspiracy and money laundering. He's accused of illegally funneling corporate donations to Republican Texas legislative candidates back in 2002. CNN's Sean Callebs joins us outside the courtroom where Tom DeLay is in position.

He's seated right next to his wife, Sean, but the case has not -- or none of the proceedings haven't started actually.

SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly. We expect the proceedings to start very shortly. And in all honesty, we don't expect it to last very long. The judge in this case, Bob Perkins, basically DeLay has a chance to hear the charges against him you just spelled out, conspiracy and money laundering. Have a chance to plead.

He will also state who his attorney is. That is Dick DeGuerin, a very powerful Houston attorney with a certain degree of history with the prosecutor in this case, Ronnie Earle, on the other side. Earle's been in his position 30 years and has prosecuted about 15 political heavyweights over the years. He points out, Earle does, that a lot of these political types have been Democrats over the years because DeLay and his legal team have made this out simply to be a vendetta that Earle has against the former majority leader. DeLay, his legal team, maintaining their innocents. We expect the proceedings to -- are expected to start at the top of the hour.

I want to take you down just to show you, though, Fredricka, the kind of interest this has drawn. If you look down there, I'll remind you, there are the cameras outside the courtroom, and number of still photographers as well. There are at least 15 tripods down there. You can also see a mic stand has been set up. After the proceedings, we certainly hope that the attorneys in this case are going to spell out exactly how they think everything went. And we know Tom DeLay is scheduled to go to the state capital only a few blocks from where we are and deliver some remarks as well.

A lot of people still talking about the mug shot that came out yesterday of Tom DeLay. A lot of people expected it would look like the very typical mug shot. Somewhat very stoic. But if you look at the one of Tom DeLay, he's simply beaming. And on his lapel, his congressional pin. And no numbers at the bottom and you don't see a profile shot. Harris County, where this picture was taken, says they do not use numbers on the bottom of their mug shots anymore. So this picture, Fredricka, could really look like the kind of thing you find in a congressional yearbook or something. It's not the kind of image, not the kind of picture that will haunt DeLay as his political picture moves on.

WHITFIELD: And, presumably, that was very intentional.

Sean Callebs, thank you so much.

Meantime, I want to bring in legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, who's on the line with us too, keeping a close watch on this courtroom as we wait for Judge Bob Perkins to take the bench there.

And, Jeffrey, Sean brought up a point. Outside you've got a host of television cameras. In fact, that is in part why his attorneys filed for a motion of a change of venue. Is that likely to take place given that no matter where this case is to be heard, there is going to be an awful lot of publicity?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Change of venues are rare in Texas and anywhere else. But that is just one of many, many legal issues that the judge is going have to deal with. And, you know, it's the name of the defendant, DeLay, but I suspect that will also be the theme of the legal proceedings today.

One thing worth remembering is, this investigation has been going on for a long time. There are two other defendants in this same investigation. They were indicted last year. They don't even have a trial date set yet. So I think that kind of slow-moving pace is to be expected here.

One thing you may see Dick DeGuerin do right out of the box, is raise the issue of prosecutorial misconduct. He has already subpoenaed Ronnie Earle, the district attorney. So one -- a good defense -- the best offense is a good -- the best defense is a good offense, as they say in football, and Dick DeGuerin may be seeking to put the prosecution on trial as early as possible. So I'm going to be listening for that in the likely very brief proceedings we hear today.

WHITFIELD: And, at the same time, Jeffrey, Dick DeGuerin has also filed a motion to try to get the judge to recuse himself because of his alleged democratic ties as well.

TOOBIN: Again, yet another issue to be dealt with. You know, in Texas . . .

WHITFIELD: Well, who makes that decision?

TOOBIN: Well, the judge has to make his own decision about recusal, but that can be appealed at various stages in the case. But, I mean, we've talked about three legal issues just right off the bat, change of venue, recusal of the judge, prosecutorial misconduct.

WHITFIELD: And, in fact, the judge is walking in right now, Jeffrey, as you're speaking. Judge Bob Perkins now taking the bench. Let's try and listen in and see what's being said there in the courtroom.

JUDGE BOB PERKINS, TEXAS DISTRICT COURT: I must say, I should have stayed in Italy. Let's see, Mr. Briton (ph).

MR. BRITON: Yes, sir.

PERKINS: You and I were speaking earlier about -- earlier this week about the bonds in the case and you have a personal bond there.

BRITON: We have (INAUDIBLE) bond (INAUDIBLE).

PERKINS: OK. The other bond was made yesterday in Houston?

BRITON: Yes, sir.

PERKINS: OK. And you have that in that file, Janis (ph)? That would be for the second case, correct?

BRITON: Yes, sir.

PERKINS: OK. And then this is a $10,000 personal bond? And I guess I'm just going to put in standard here because I don't know when the next setting will be.

BRITON: Thank you.

PERKINS: And this personal bond will go into the first case that was the one that was done with the summons. OK. All right.

Mr. DeGuerin, you filed yesterday a motion for the court to be recused.

DICK DEGUERIN, TOM DELAY'S ATTORNEY: Yes, sir.

PERKINS: And so I've been thinking about this. I think probable the best way for us to handle it is for me to get in touch with Judge Shrab (ph) and ask him to hear it or designate somebody to hear it. It seems to me that this is going to be -- continuing to be an issue any time Democrats there's a Democratic judge or a Republican defendant or vice versa and we probably need to get some hearing on that made by the presiding judge of the region. And I just think that would be the fairest way would be for them to take care of that.

DEGUERIN: Yes, sir. And I understand that Mr. Earle seems to think it's just a Democrat-Republican thing, but I noticed yesterday Moveon.org, to which you have contributed, was selling t-shirts with Mr. DeLay's mug shots on it to raise money.

PERKINS: Well, let me just say, I haven't ever seen that t- shirt, number one. Number two, I haven't bought it.

DEGUERIN: Yes, sir.

PERKINS: Number three, the last time that I -- number three, the last time I contributed to Moveon that I know of was prior to the November election last year when they were primarily helping Senator Kerry. The -- I noticed in the motion you all mentioned some of the things that they had said about Mr. DeLay in some recent -- it said in there recently. I don't know when -- do you know when that was?

DEGUERIN: There were two quotes, Judge. One of them was before you contributed and one was after you contributed.

PERKINS: And what was the one that you said recently?

DEGUERIN: The one that said recently . . .

PERKINS: When was that quote made?

DEGUERIN: I'll have to look, Judge, I don't have the date right on the top of my head.

PERKINS: All right.

DEGUERIN: But it was -- I think it was in 2004. I believe it was after the case was pending in your court.

PERKINS: Uh-huh. OK, but that would be . . .

DEGUERIN: (INAUDIBLE).

PERKINS: That would be 2005. That would be this year.

DEGUERIN: No, 2004, after the Polyandrow (ph) and Ellis (ph) case were pending in your court.

PERKINS: OK.

DEGUERIN: And the other one is the contributions to the Democratic National Committee a couple of days after the indictment that named the Republican National Committee that landed in your court.

PERKINS: That's the day they were received?

DEGUERIN: Yes, sir.

PERKINS: OK. Yes, I don't know when that was sent. So, OK. Well, we're going to go ahead and get in touch with Judge Shrab and he will go ahead and set this. If you all will check later this morning or this afternoon with DeeAnn (ph), she can give you a setting on that and we'll go down the road from there.

DEGUERIN: Yes, sir.

PERKINS: All right. Thank you.

DEGUERIN: May we be excused?

PERKINS: Yes. Thank you.

WHITFIELD: All right. You just heard Judge Bob Perkins saying there in that Austin courtroom that he is going ask another judge to hear the motion that Dick DeGuerin, attorney for Tom DeLay, has filed yesterday asking that the judge recuse himself. DeGuerin said not only on the basis that Judge Perkins is a Democrat and has made contributions to the Democratic National Committee, but in part as well because he's made contributions to the Web site Moveon and the organization Moveon.com and that apparently just recently a t-shirt had been sold on that Web site with DeLay's photograph on it. And, of course, the attorney sees that there's a real conflict of interest there involves that judge.

Let's bring back Jeffrey Toobin on this.

So right away, Jeffrey, we're hearing the judge render some sort of decision in part on this motion, just that another judge should be involved in helping to determine whether he should be indeed removed from this case. Unusual or just about the way it usually goes?

TOOBIN: Well, that's often how many states deal with recusal motion. They kick it up to the chief judge of the area.

But this is a very serious issue. Here you have -- in Texas, as in a lot of states, judges run as candidates of a party and Judge Perkins is a Democrat and there's nothing wrong with that. Every judge in Texas runs as affiliated with one party or another. But politics, of course, saturates this case and the Republican National Committee is very -- is involved in this case and it's about campaign contributions. So that one question is, you know, how do you deal with the issue of partisan judges by definition, dealing with the politically-charged case. On top of that, you have the issue of apparently, according to Dick DeGuerin, and it's not apparently disputed by Judge Perkins, is that he contributed to Moveon.org. Moveon.org is a highly partisan, very anti-DeLay Web site. And frankly, I have to say, I'm shocked that a sitting judge would give to an organization like that. So I think that will be a very serious issue when considering recusal. And so this hearing before the senior judge in the area is likely not to be routine at all, but very serious.

WHITFIELD: All right, Jeffrey, hold on a minute because Sean Callebs is outside the courtroom there in Austin and has a little bit more information to ad to this.

Sean.

CALLEBS: Yes, it's interesting. Jeffrey and Fredricka, there's an article in the Austin newspaper today about the symmetry involving this case, that Earle is involved in and Perkins. And, you know, Earle, 10 years ago, prosecuted Kay Bailey Hutchison when she was in state politics here. And at that time, DeGuerin again was the attorney in that case. He asked the judge be recused in the case, he asked for a change of venue and the newspaper reports that he was successful in both of those 10 years ago.

And they also talk a bit about the politics. Remember, this Austin area, Travis County, really perhaps the only real Democratic stronghold left in this state. So (INAUDIBLE) may appear I guess kind of on the outset that a siting judge would donate money to Moveon.org. I think what a lot of people in this area are saying, this was a judge who was very committed to John Kerry as a candidate back in 2004 and most of his money, his efforts were going there.

What we're looking at right now, obviously, the podium there, the group of photographers and other journalists down there waiting for DeLay and the other legal members to come out. I just wanted to set the scene there, Fredricka and Jeffrey.

WHITFIELD: All right. And, of course, you've got a nice little flavor going on there with a harmonica in the background and folks are just, I guess, enjoying some of the scenery there outside the Travis County courtroom.

All right, our political analyst, Bill Schneider, is also joining us now.

And right out of the gate, Bill, we heard the issue of political party loyalty being addressed right away. The defense wanting to make this a very serious portion of their case so that perhaps they can try and resolve this or maybe even get these charges thrown out altogether, saying that even the prosecutor has a political affiliation and motivation and that's why these charges were brought. WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's the essence of what they were arguing, that this is all politics, it's all partisanship. The prosecutor has a partisan motivation. Now they're arguing the judge, because of his campaign contributions in the past.

The fact is, he, as Jeffrey indicated, he runs for political office as the candidate of a party. That's the penalty you pay if you have partisan contests for judges. They're going to be partisan judges.

And now comes the question at the heart of this case, can they fairly hear a case that is so deeply enmeshed in politics. The whole case started because of a partisan war over the redistricting the state of Texas for Congress where Tom DeLay and his allies and a committee, political committee that he formed, tried to get the Texas legislature into the hands of the Republican so they could draw district lines. It was partisan from the outset really on both sides.

WHITFIELD: All right, Bill Schneider, thank you very much. Jeffrey Toobin and Sean Callebs all reporting on what is a political storm now taking place there in Texas.

Meantime, when we come back, we'll be talking about another kind of storm in the form of Hurricane Wilma.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: Back out to Austin, Texas, now. Tom DeLay's attorney, Dick DeGuerin.

DICK DEGUERIN, TOM DELAY'S ATTORNEY: To ask the judge to recuse himself from the case or to have the presiding judge of the administrative district hear the recusal motion. The motion is serious. It deals with not just the fact that the judge is an active Democrat, as he has every right to be, but that he is supported causes and persons that have been in direct opposition to Congressman DeLay, including Moveon.org, an organization that raises money by insulting Tom DeLay, and including the Democratic National Committee to whom the judge contributed within days of the case involving the Republican National Committee ending in the judge's court.

There's more to it than that and it's a serious motion and I'm sure that it will be given serious consideration by the administrative judge. That's what the law provides and we'll be looking forward to that hearing as soon as possible.

We've also filed a request to have the case moved out of Travis County. All we want is a fair trial and a fair tribunal. And I'm confident that with a fair trial and a fair tribunal, the jury will find that Tom DeLay has not committed a crime.

I need to emphasize, as I have every time I've talked to you, that no corporate money came to any political candidate in Texas. That's the bottom line.

I'll take a couple of questions but we've got to move on.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

DEGUERIN: The motion talks about Judge Perkins and his political activities which have been in opposition to Congressman DeLay. And, frankly, a judge should avoid even the appearance of impropriety. That's what the canons say and so that's what we're asking.

QUESTION: What were the quotations that the judge was referring that you were referring to in court?

DEGUERIN: There are several quotations from Moveon.org that are very insulting to Congressman DeLay. They're set out in the motion. I encouraging you to read the motion. It's in terms of even reporters can understand.

QUESTION: How do you respond -- can you tell about us the t- shirt...

QUESTION: Would you give us some reasons about change of venue, please (ph)?

DEGUERIN: Well, the latest thing on Moveon.org's Web site is that they're trying to raise money by selling t-shirts with Tom DeLay's mug shot on the t-shirts. And I just don't think it looks right for the judge sitting on Congressman DeLay's case to have contributed to an organization such as that.

Anything else?

QUESTION: Could you explain the chance ov venue, please?

DEGUERIN: I'm sorry.

QUESTION: Could you explain why you want to change the venue? Why not have it here in Travis County?

DEGUERIN: Well, there's been about three years of leaks and innuendos about this investigation. I think it's tainted the jury pool in Travis County and I think that we can get a fair trial elsewhere.

QUESTION: (INAUDIBLE).

DEGUERIN: This is not about Democrats or Republican judges. The judge has every right to be a Democrat or a Republican. That's not what it's about. It's about Judge Perkins having actively supported people who were in opposition to Congressman DeLay. Since this case has been in his court, he's made six monetary contributions to either the Democratic Party in Texas or the Democratic National Committee. In addition, he made contributions to one of the candidates who the TRMPAC supported. It just doesn't look right.

QUESTION: Where would you like to hold this? Where would you like to see this trial held?

DEGUERIN: It would be nice to be in Fort Worth.

Thank you very much.

WHITFIELD: All right. You were listening to Tom DeLay's attorney, Dick DeGuerin, there responding to Judge Bob Perkins who now says he'll ask a senior judge to consider the case as to whether Judge Perkins should recuse himself because of his Democratic Party loyalties, as well as in the words of Dick DeGuerin, his contributions to a group in opposition of Tom DeLay.

We're going ro take a short break and we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WHITFIELD: This just in. We're going to show you these live pictures out of Brooklyn, New York. You're looking at emergency crews responding to a reported building collapse. This building was actually under construction. At least that unit was under construction and somehow it collapse or something terrible there happened. Early reports are indicating that as many as possibly four people may be trapped there and emergency crews are on the scene. Of course, when we get more information out of Brooklyn there, we'll be bringing that to you.

Southwest Florida is bracing for a possible hit from Hurricane Wilma, but the dangerous category four storm has slowed, making for an agonizing wait for residents. Right now, Wilma is battering the coastline of Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula. And in Cancun, that's where we find our Susan Candiotti.

Susan.

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fredricka, it is an impressive sight as you look out into the ocean and that is because where you normally would see the horizon, it is a solid color of gray covered by mist and waves that are just pummeling the shoreline here. We're along the Swif (ph) that many of you might be familiar with if you've ever vacationed in Cancun before. A strip of luxury hotels that were ordered to be evacuated yesterday. So the only people here along with some intrepid reporters are the staff who are trying to keep these places running, as it were. Still towers of hotels but downtown where these residents and vacationers have been evacuated. They have cut power to the downtown area protectively to preserve the power lines.

Now, here, let me take some more pictures for you as we look out here. This hotel in particular, the Marriott Hotel, is about 27 feet above sea level in the main lobby, but I am watching waves that are crashing up at the pool level, I would say, they have to be at least 20 feet high. And the storm surge predicted (ph) 11 feet as I look out onto the (INAUDIBLE), seem to be at least that high.

Then you look at the waves crashing above this staircase area, that it's pouring up above there, as well as the concrete planters that normally you would think, how could the wind blown those over that are on their sides. Also about 40 Tiki huts, those straw huts that are normally on the beach, those broke apart last night and still see some of the remnants washing ashore.

Now, again, there is still power here. The president has said it was a powerful storm and we will certainly agree with that. That's an understatement. And, of course, the bad news is, people here are going probably, there's a good chance, have to deal with this for at least two days.

Fredricka.

WHITFIELD: Our Susan Candiotti in Cancun. Thank you so much.

(WEATHER REPORT)

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